Conservative kiosk not allowed at mall

[RamboLiberal]

Source: WCNC-Newschannel 36

CONCORD, N.C. -- "Impeach Obama."

"Al Qaeda's favorite days: 9/11/01 and 11/04/08."

"Work Harder. Obama needs the money."

The bumper stickers and posters sold at "Free Market Warrior" at Concord Mills are meant to be "biting," the kiosk's owner Loren Spivack said.

At least one passerby found them racist and bigoted, and took time to tell the mall in a letter and a letter to the editor of the Charlotte Observer.

Whatever your opinion, the fact is this: At the end of July, Free Market Warrior will not be allowed at Concord Mills Mall. The kiosk chain's owner shared e-mail correspondence with NewsChannel 36 that explains that the mall management has decided that the items sold are not "neutral" enough. The lease will be allowed to expire July 31, 2009 without an option to renew.





Read more: http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-072109-mrn-freemarketwarrior.63b5bce2.html

---

Free Market Warrior Website http://www.freemarketwarrior.com/store

After looking at his website - if this was what was on display at the mall for sale I say let the Whacko keep his kiosk as long as a liberal kiosk merchant could also display their wares.

[No Elephants]

1. Hey, Loren. Bite this.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Hmmm ... I dunno, I kinda have a problem with this.

I mean, on the one hand, it's the mall owner's space, and he has the right to toss people out. On the other, this reeks of censorship, and none of the examples cited in the story are particularly racist, sexist, etc. -- they're just stupid.

[northernlights]

9. I remember when a lawyer and his son were arrested,

not tossed out, ARRESTED, for wearing anti-bush t-shirts in a mall in CT.

It *is* the mall-owner's space. They do get to make such decisions, and if they think it could hurt their business, so be it.

Personally, I wouldn't care. On the other hand, the GOP yard sale held in town last year didn't seem to attract a heck of a lot of business...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[SteppingRazor]

11. Yeah, I remember that too. That was even more idiotic.

But that doesn't make what happened in the OP OK.

[Javaman]

41. no, it doesn't but the owner of the mall has the right to determine

what stores can lease and those who can't lease.

In this case censorship is in the eye of the beholder, but the owner of the mall is within his full rights to deny a lease to this guy.

It's similar to no shirt, no shoes, no service.

There could be some wiggle room, however for the merchant. If there was nothing in his contract specifying that the owner reserves the right to deny and extension of lease under any circumstances as determined by the owner or something along those lines.

But I serious doubt that, that type of wording is common boilerplate to most contracts involved in retail.

[No Elephants]

12. His sane customers objected. Nuff reason. Private persons are free to censor. Only govt isn't.

No Constitutional right to have a one-sided politicaL kiosk on someone else's private property.

[SteppingRazor]

15. Sure, I'm aware of that.

Believe me, no need for the explanation of free speech. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I understand. I'm not saying the mall owner was even wrong in what he did. Just that it tends to rub me the wrong way. I always try to look at these things in the opposite light, though even by that standard, I guess I have to come down on the side of the mall owner. That is, if someone during Bush's term in office were selling anti-Bush stuff in the mall and got booted out, would it be right, legally, morally or both?

And in that case, I have to say that I'd probably also side with the mall owner. So, overall, the guy's perfectly within his right to do this.

I guess I'd just like a little more explanation as to how the kiosk owner's wares were "racist," "sexist," etc. as the complainant averred in her letter. That's all.

[JonQ]

31. Yeah I agree

nothing he said was racist. Or at least not the examples listed here.

The mall owner has the absolute right to kick anyone out for any reason, but I still think it's fair to disagree with him for doing so.

Oh and if this had happened to someone selling anti-bush t-shirts I can guarantee you many on here defending it would be screaming fascism.

I think upholding free speech, while a legal requirement only for the government, should be a moral obligation for the rest of us. That doesn't mean agreeing, or not offering a rebuttal. Merely not censoring others for their political views, even when legally acceptable to do so.

[ret5hd]

26. self delete...better stated by others!

[hyphenate]

33. If I were a mall owner and I was getting complaints

from mall shoppers about a certain store/kiosk/whatever in the mall, I would likely close them down not because of their wares, but because I would be losing mall customers. It's a simple matter of economics.

[Hepburn]

40. I agree...

...it's a business decision, especially in this economy. If people are offended and do not wish to return to shop...well, that says it all.

JMHO

[knixphan]

43. exactly.

[hughee99]

46. Isn't this basically the same reason that some radio stations

gave when they announced they wouldn't be playing Dixie Chicks any more?

[HughBeaumont]

3. I think I would need to see his content before I can make a judgement.

I'm pretty sure his stickers have nothing but ass-dumb slogans, but I say keep him. I need a good laugh when I go to the mall.

[KansDem]

4. Well, let's look at this objectively...

Just why are 9/11/01 and 11/04/08 Al Qaeda's favorite days?

And just why should Obama be impeached?

I'd have them answer those questions objectively before I'd consider censorship...

[GreenInNC]

5. I live near Concord Mills and shop there

I have seen this kiosk many times and while it is annoying, I don't find it offensive.

[KG]

6. sounds like the the invisble hands of the free market at work to me!

:P

[ElboRuum]

7. Censorship rankles The Bejeebuz out of me... but this ain't it.

The mall can lease to any business it chooses. If it feels that this kiosk could be trouble for business, they are perfectly within their rights not to renew the lease.

[WCGreen]

10. Well stated...

[24601]

30. And then we'll get rid of the blacks, jews, and hari-krishnas...

No, you can't just toss out anybody for any reason if you are engaged in commerce and let the public shop at your mall. But as long as the neutrality rule is enforced both ways, the ban will be upheld.

[ElboRuum]

37. Actually, you absolutely can...

But I won't let facts get in the way of your rantings... please, continue.

[24601]

49. Yes, you can...if you are willing to face the consequences. But I

was referring to what you are allowed to do, not what you are capable of doing until the courts catch up with you. I thought that was intuitive and apologize if it wasn't clear.

[mrbarber]

8. Not suprising.

There was a kiosk that was closed down where I lived because they sold comics and a bunch of parents were up in arms because of all the Spawn merchandise (yeah, this was when Spawn was popular-a sad time indeed)

Malls aren't going to risk losing customers.

[HopeHoops]

13. It isn't censorship in any way.

If the mall owner is a rabid PETA member they can ban Hickory Farms from having a kiosk. Decisions about what is considered appropriate or even within the philosophical or religious beliefs of the owner are ENTIRELY the decision of the owner - whether the decisions are good for business or not. Nobody has a right to exercise their "free speech" on someone else's property. It is as simple as that.

[pattmarty]

14. There's a lot worse shit out there. I personally don't have a problem........

.......with it. What we will be hearing in the next couple of days though, is Fox "news" crying censorship. The thing I find kinda weird is this is NC and I would think "most" of the mall goers wouldn't mind and a lot would support this place.

[Platypus]

16. Free Market What?

This doofus obviously doesn't understand free markets. None of his slogans seem to have anything to do with free markets. His objection is about free speech, not free markets, and is still invalid because (as others have pointed out) he was on *private* property and the owner of that property is under no obligation to let him stay. He just went to cause trouble, and got some.

As for whether the mall was right to kick him out, I'm a bit more ambivalent. Visiting his site, I don't see any of the racist or even pro-confederacy slogans that the article mentions. As the Ricci case has recently caused many to consider, the anticipated over-reaction of a few shouldn't guide policy. If he was paying his bills and wasn't driving away significant other business (a few professional whiners don't count, especially as such rarely have the means to buy much) then I think he should have been allowed to stay. He serves a useful purpose as a reminder of what alternative we had in the last election, and will probably have in the next. If we had a thousand like him, we'd never have to worry about a Republican return to power.

[frylock]

25. i wonder if he purged his site of any of the so-called racist merch?

[mitchum]

17. "If This Van's Creeping, You Know I'm Freeping"

[Flaneur]

18. Mitch McConnell bobble head dolls?

Who in the world would buy one of those? Ha ha ha.

[valerief]

19. Way cool. nt

[Berry Cool]

20. Wish we could do the same and get rid of the "Truth Booth" kiosks at our local malls.

They are antiabortion propaganda that shows 3-D ultrasound fetal images, while conveying information to the effect that every image they show from the moment of conception is a baby. No one mans them, they just run the images all the time and the literature is there. You know what it's all about; it's about turning people off abortion as an alternative, period.

[Critters2]

21. Let the mall management know you're offended.

That's what did it in this case. That ol' invisible hand of the market can be a wonderful thing!

[Quantess]

22. Nobody wants to see political crap like that at the mall.

People go to the mall to tune out stresses and turn their brains off, not engage in politics. Malls are places where people zone out and focus on the superficial.

Of course Free Market Warrior should be able to open shop, but not at a mall. I wouldn't expect the mall to allow a liberal political organization, either.

[Dappleganger]

23. They'll fit in perfectly at the gun shows.

We went to one on Sunday and there were several vendors selling that shit, along with a free picture with an image of GW.

We left after an hour, thankfully.

[Prophet0621]

24. Mall owners choice.

I don't agree with the decision not to allow the kiosk but I do believe it's the mall owners decision. Personally I don't really see a problem with any of those slogans, people are free to purchase them and display them. I have as friend who has worked for a T-shirt store in DC for years. They carry shirts with slogans that hold nothing back and attack anyone and everyone.... especially politicians. The biggest sellers are slamming whatever politician is currently in office. I think many are dumb but most are funny, even if I don't agree with them I can at least see the humor. People need to grow some thicker skin, we are a country of whiners.

[JI7]

29. it's a business decision, people would boycott the mall

it would hurt the business of other stores in the mall. which would hurt the mall owner when/if they decided to not rent out spaces there.

[Wednesdays]

27. K&R

:kick:

[JI7]

28. it's the bigotry that was the problem , if it was stuff like "less govt"

"no taxes" elephant stickers etc that wouldn't have been a problem.

[JonQ]

32. BUt that did he say that was racist?

The three examples cited were political criticisms. It's not like he had shirts calling obama the n word or anything. Perhaps the article didn't mention the right examples but going on the information at hand I'd say bigoted is an unfair epithet.

[junior college]

34. I'm pretty sure I've seen this guy's stuff before on the net....totally racist

comparing Obama to a monkey and stuff like that. Disgusting

[John Kerry VonErich]

35. Damn, it looks like it'll be all out war.

from what the comments below say.

[Endangered Specie]

36. Aw man I can't believed I missed this last time I was down in Charlotte!

[enviralment]

38. Racist and Biggoted

First of all i don't see the racist part? The al-qaeda one is offensive and in bad taste but censorship this is ridiculous. It seems that American business will not support any kind of dissension against organized government. what shame

[Doctor_J]

44. This is not censorship. Censorship would be telling him what to sell

He's a customer of the mall owner, who has decided not to do business with him.

[Blue_Tires]

39. well, it is NC, so he'll be setting up shop in a friendly mall sooner or later...

at least the "warrior" can see the irony of being slain by his own free market principles...

[petronius]

42. This is a symptom of something that's bothered me for a long time - the privatization

of public space. Shopping centers and town squares through history have been places for meeting and communicating, but in recent years more and more of these (indoor and outdoor) have become private property. Property owners have far greater ability to ban protests, demonstrations, leafleting, or the sale/wearing of 'offensive' material. So, we end up with an increasingly sanitized and Disneyfied public sphere.

I'm not sure what a proper balance would be between property rights and public speech, but I do know that I'm more irritated with the complainers and the mall owner in the OP than with the rw kiosker...

[mitchum]

45. I read a piece a few years ago about the shrinking of public space...

coinciding with the growth of individual private space (increase in the square footage of the average home)
I can't remember the author, though.

[daleo]

48. Very good point. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

47. Malls are private property and can eject anyone whom they deem

a disturbance; of course these repigs are a fucking disturbance.

Bitch about the nuts free speech rights all you want, but it is private property.