IRS "Turning Over Every Rock" to Raise Revenue

[formercia]

Source: business.Yahoo



IRS "Turning Over Every Rock" to Raise Revenue: Obama Targeting Overseas Assets
Posted Jul 10, 2009 09:27am EDT by Aaron Task

Faced with massive deficits and dwindling tax revenues, the U.S. government is "turning every rock it can over to find as much revenue as it can," says Ken Rubinstein, senior partner at Rubinstein & Rubinstein.

In addition to potential tax hikes, Rubinstein sees a wholesale change in how America treats foreign holdings of U.S. individuals and corporations, citing:

--snip--

Flexing Muscles: The U.S. government will ask all nations to sign a "tax information exchange agreement," says Rubinstein, citing unnamed foreign government officials. He declined to specify but the attorney has advised Caribbean banking centers in the past. Smaller nations will have no choice but to acquiesce, Rubinstein says.

Crackdown on Havens: Beyond the government's ongoing case against UBS, pending legislation declares "anybody who sends money to a ‘tax haven country' will be presumed to be committing tax fraud," Rubinstein says. "The burden will be on the taxpayer to prove he didn't commit tax fraud. The judge, jury and prosecutor will be the IRS." This will make it increasingly difficult for U.S. citizens to shelter assets abroad - even for legitimate reasons.

--snip--

Read more: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/277731/IRS-%22Turning-Over-Every-Rock%22-to-Raise-Revenue-Obama-Targeting-Overseas-Assets

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Good for Obama.

[Turbineguy]

1. And under every rock....

nah, not going there!

[Deja Q]

10. I miss having a hard place...

Though anything less than 7" wouldn't interest me either...

:hide:

[JayMusgrove]

49. I will.....under every rock is a Republican tax cheat, grifter,

public officeholder, member of the TV clergy, pimping lobbyist, or worse, a real Joe the plumber.

[Octafish]

2. Draft tax evaders.

Then, use them as fodder for every patrol and convoy in the AfPak theatre.

[formercia]

54. Good idea.

The rich have been using us as cannon fodder for centuries.

[walkaway]

3. Good...I pay my taxes but the way things are going...

I'll be happy to take three hots and a cot and free health care in a Federal facility. It's my new retirement plan!

[BlueJessamine]

4. "It's my new retirement plan!"

:rofl: :rofl:

[Mist]

5. For once they're going after the big guys. I was afraid the story would be

something about wanting to tax the citizens' couch change.

[No Elephants]

6. How about the Ensigns tax free "gifting" to pay off the family of their son's mistress?

[asksam]

7. Here's an idea for you IRS....

... stop allowing "loopholes" to exist in the tax code and actually tax the rich.

And then tax 'em again.

Seriously... we need to have a 90%+ tax rate on the richest (I'll let the IRS come up with the number to define that).

[Violet_Crumble]

15. And who do you think use tax havens? It's sure not yr average taxpayer...

It's the rich who do it....

[LiberalFighter]

8. Have they tried Bush, Cheney and their buddies?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. try the porn industry, lots of tax evasion going on there

[pinniped]

11. Congrass should take a 75% pay cut. They are virtually useless.

.

[Zavulon]

12. "The burden will be on the taxpayer to prove he didn't commit tax fraud."

Oh, yeah, this is exactly what we need. I'm sure the IRS will be a fair judge, jury and prosecutor. :eyes:

[Abq_Sarah]

44. The burden is already on the taxpayer

To "prove innocence" when it comes to the IRS. There is something seriously wrong with that.

[Merlot]

46. "anybody who sends money to a ‘tax haven country' ...

"anybody who sends money to a ‘tax haven country' will be presumed to be committing tax fraud,"

They are not assuming all taxpayers are commiting fraud, only the ones who are taking steps that point to fraud.

Not that I'm one to defend the IRS but going after big corporations and tax havens is something that has been lacking for quite some time.

[Zavulon]

56. Right, and we can expect the IRS to show common sense and reasonable restraint.

Sooner or later, some poor sap who uses Western Union to send a few bucks to a buddy in one of those countries is going to fell the full wrath of the IRS for itself. I'd rather see big corporations use tax havens than have even one innocent person crushed by the IRS's zeal and this "guilty until you prove yourself innocent" crap.

If we had a comprehensible and fair tax system, the corporations wouldn't go looking for relief from oppressive taxation. Remember, whatever they get hit with tax-wise, they just pass on to us - it's the customers who pay those taxes, not the corporations. If their loopholes are eliminated, their prices will go up and it's us that will get screwed, not the corporations. That's why I don't have the slightest problem with corporations avoiding as much taxation as they can.

[PeteytehMawnstar]

62. Exactly

:yourock:

[Zavulon]

64. Welcome to DU :)

:hi:

[JerseygirlCT]

48. I wondered about that -

how do you even do that? How do you prove a negative conclusively?

[Xenotime]

61. What happened to "change"?

[roamer65]

13. Tax religion.

Churches, synagogues, etc should not be tax exempt.

[Zavulon]

58. NOBODY should be tax-exempt unless their annual income is $0.00.

If you use a library, if a traffic light keeps cars from hitting you, etc, you're using a service. I do not believe in letting people off without taxes unless they make nothing, and I'm not counting Medicare and FICA here. No matter how poor someone is, if the EITC exceeds what was taken out of somebody's pay, I'm against it.

As for religion, don't even get me started - let's just say I couldn't agree with you more, even if I tried.

[Mind_your_head]

14. Oh B*LLSHIT!

They're only "turning over rocks" that make $250,000/year or less.

The BIG MONEY gets a pass ~ NEVER GETS AN AUDIT! N-E-V-E-R.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. And you know this how?

How do you know for a fact that the IRS never carries out audits on any individual or business that turns over over $250k a year?

[Mind_your_head]

17. I know this b/c I was audited not so very many years ago.

The IRS guy seemed like a pretty good gent. In the course of our conversations, I asked him how many "high profile/high roller" tax returns the IRS audited? His response was "none". He said that , iIn his experience, he (nor his "fellows" that he knew at the IRS EVER audited anyone making over about $250,000/year.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. I guess pretty good gents can tell porkys too...

I just took a look at the IRS website and assuming that you were audited 2005 and after, this proves the guy didn't know what he was talking about. This is a statement from the Commissioner on tax enforcement back in 2005..

Audits of larger corporations – those with assets over $10 million – also increased, up 14% from a year ago to 10,878. The coverage rate of 20% has rebounded significantly from that of 12% just two years ago.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=150358,00.html

It just wouldn't make any sense that a department whose role is to raise revenue wouldn't audit the groups where most of that revenue lies. If the US is anywhere like here in Australia, it's not individuals where the revenue is big - it's the large business end of things...

btw, I got audited a few weeks ago, and they weren't even nice enough to send an auditor to talk to me. All I got was a letter in the mail after some stupid program that was running and flagged my tax return from a few years back as having an irregularlity in it :(

[Mind_your_head]

20. Why would an "Aussie" be concerned enough to reply to an american IRS thread thingy???

I'm sooooooooo confused as to why you would be 'concerned enough' to read and then comment? *scratches head*

[Violet_Crumble]

21. I didn't realise only Americans were supposed to post here...

It only takes a five second search on the IRS site and an ability to read basic English to show that what you said was wrong. Sorry if you don't like that, but there's no need to go all nasty on me about it..

[Mind_your_head]

22. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

:wtf:

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Was that supposed to mean something in English?

I'm totally at a loss as to why yr so nasty and rude over an issue that's so unemotional. What you said got proven wrong. Seeing as how there's some kind of xenophobia happening, I can go grab one of my American DUer friends to post for you exactly what I did about large business audits. Like, maybe copying and pasting a fact from the IRS website carries more grunt if an American does it?

[Mind_your_head]

24. Are you an Aussie?

If not, from what nation do you hale?

[Violet_Crumble]

25. What's my nationality got to do with anything? n/t

[Mind_your_head]

26. One's nationality does indeed determine one's perspective....usually.

That's not something 'bad', it just "IS". We ALL have a long history, and TRULY, in my belief, one history is not greater than another (the Jewish history vs. the American Indian history vs. the Hindu history),,,,,,,

[Violet_Crumble]

30. I'm not sure how it affects it when a fact is posted from a website...

What difference does my nationality make to what I copied and pasted about large business audits? Nothing...

[mopinko]

34. i think you need to mind your own head.

you are being quite rude.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Exactly how is posting a fact from the IRS website being 'quite rude'?

I'm not the one screeching at another person and making out that because of their nationality they shouldn't post in threads here...

[mopinko]

37. i didn't reply to you. i replied to the screecher.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Oops. Sorry about that. I should take more care following who's replied to who :)

[crikkett]

43. That should be "from what nation do you HAIL"

I'm on spelling police duty.

I think you're being quite the Ugly American, by the way.

[Zhade]

53. Hail, not hale. Although I hope VC is healthy as well.

Why do you care where she's from? She has every right to express her opinion here.

[Fumesucker]

33. The poster you are replying to has been audited..

In the US that is a very stressful thing to have happen for a lower income person.

High income people have accountants and tax lawyers to take care of any audit that might happen, a lower income person must face the scary music all by themselves.

Indeed, the IRS does audit lower income people at a considerably higher rate simply because they are easy pickings for the reason I set forth above, they don't have any professionals to defend them against an audit.

High rates of lower income tax audits were policy throughout the bushie years, that may be changing now but huge bureaucracies like the IRS change at a glacial rate.

[Violet_Crumble]

36. I don't think being audited is any excuse to be so nasty to me...

The poster I was replying to wasn't saying lower income individuals are audited at a higher rate. I wouldn't have disputed that. I was disputing the claim that audits are never carried out on anyone earning over 250k, which is why I posted the information from the IRS site.


Wouldn't the reason more individuals are audited than the high end be because of two things? One is that numerically they far outrank businesses and high wealth individuals, and secondly because in most cases individual audits are very simple and don't involve complex audits which can take up lots of resources and time?

[Fumesucker]

40. You pushed a very sensitive button..

I overpaid somewhat for many years because I owned my own small business and was terrified of being audited, there are several legal deductions you can take which are very likely to trigger an audit, one of these is the "home office" deduction.

I was trying to explain the reaction more than I was trying to excuse it. The IRS and how they act is a source of a great deal of misery among a lot of lower income people in the US.

And the more complex the audit the more likely you are to find shenanigans in order to hide taxable income.

A relative of mine once turned in their employer for hiding hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash income from the restaurant she managed, she had documented proof of the crime, the IRS never did anything, they weren't interested basically because the owner had enough resources to vigorously defend themselves.

[WriteDown]

42. That;s probably not the reason.....

When I used to go over financial sheets no cash business owner EVER made any money. They'd always just about break even if you get my drift. Other common tricks involved having your wife or husband work for you for a few weeks and then claim they were an employee which allowed them to own a "company" car. Also, every lunch and dinner was a "business" lunch or dinner. All of this is very hard to prosecute by the IRS.

[Fumesucker]

51. It wasn't *just* cash..

They took credit cards as well, it was the cash business that was being greatly underreported.

This was a very successful restaurant that happened to get in a very good window of opportunity in a new fast growth area. It was quite clear the owner had a lot of money coming in that was not being reported since my relative was managing the business and maintaining the records as well as keeping copies to give to the IRS.

And you even agreed with me, it's difficult for the IRS to prosecute so they aren't interested, it's much easier for them to go after someone without the financial wherewithal to defend themselves.

[WriteDown]

41. Actually...

You can pay about 80$ on turbo tax for audit defense.

[slackmaster]

39. My tax guy told me people who make over $250K are far more likely to be audited

Because that's where the money's at. IRS auditors' performance review scores are partly dependent on how much money they recover.

[christx30]

18. Anyone want to

discuss the constitutionality of presuming guilt? I'm not one to defend the high rollers, but 'innocence until proven guilty' is a corner stone of this country. First its the IRS, then who's going to do it next? FBI? Local police? "You have to PROVE that the pot isn't yours"

[Mind_your_head]

27. Hey......really good way to call (divert) attention to/from malfeasance

:eyes:

[PeteytehMawnstar]

28. Two wrongs don't make a right

PLus whatever bullying tactics they use against the rich will most definitely be used against the middle and working class.

[Mind_your_head]

29. You've got that right! n/t

[ohio2007]

45. a compromise will be found

Tax the rich and forget to read the fine print in a bill that raises the gas tax.

Could happen ?

LOL
question is when will they punish as many as possible to pay "the bills".

[PeteytehMawnstar]

63. Hopefully I've found a way out of the country by then

[christx30]

31. The same thing could be said

for murderers, armed robbers, car jackers, muggers or any of the other crimes that happen. But they are all innocent until proven guilty. So why are tax crimes different? Why is the IRS the judge, jury, and executioner for that? Doesn't every criminal, no matter who it is or what their crime, deserve his or her day in court? This is going down a very dark path and it scares the crap out of me. As it should the rest of you.

[MattSh]

32. BofA and Citibank will love this...

Crackdown on Havens: Beyond the government's ongoing case against UBS, pending legislation declares "anybody who sends money to a ‘tax haven country' will be presumed to be committing tax fraud," Rubinstein says. "The burden will be on the taxpayer to prove he didn't commit tax fraud. The judge, jury and prosecutor will be the IRS." This will make it increasingly difficult for U.S. citizens to shelter assets abroad - even for legitimate reasons.

Wonder who is behind this. Is that you Bank of America? Citibank? Stealing from taxpayers isn't enough to recapitalize your banks, so you get your buds in Congress to make it (more) impossible to keep money somewhere so people might even get a decent return. There are many ways to get more than the lousy 2% an American bank will pay you for use of YOUR money, (stealing from you a second time) but most of them are already not available to US citizens.

[JerseygirlCT]

47. Ok then, here's the logical way to do it: start at the top and work down

Start with the wealthiest and give them the thorough going-over. That's where you're likely to find the most money from the smallest number of people.

[JayMusgrove]

50. I don't want facts to get in the way of opinions expressed here...(some of which

I agree with)

But here is an interesting set of tables from the IRS.

The super rich actually do, (on average, not always) pay more $ in taxes, but the top 5% in 2006 earned THIRTY TIMES as much per capita as the lowest 50% of earners...

So take a look at these charts, you can learn a lot about the history of tax rates from these, how the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush 2 folks dealt with taxes... Clinton's term actually almost DOUBLED revenue, due to the economic boom, but Bush gave breaks to the rich, sliding us into a deficit, and put more of the burden (1/6th of revenues, instead of 1/7th)on the lower 50%.

Study these....I think there's a lot of room for creativity in how we collect taxes from the rich, and how we already get 99%+ compliance among the lower 75% of earners.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/250.html

[underpants]

52. FOLLOW THE MONEY- audit rich people

Duh!

[Vinca]

55. Matt Taibbi reported that most corporations hide their assets overseas

and pay zero taxes. Yet, the Republicans insist business in this country is subject to the highest tax rate in the world. Start turning over the Cayman Island rocks.

[SOS]

57. "find as much revenue as they can"

Why?
Does Citibank need more welfare?

[mod mom]

59. Try looking at the tax exempt status of the "fellowship's" C Street operations

Why should a political agenda of dominance receive tax exempt status?

[Zhade]

60. And yet I just read that they WON'T raise taxes on the wealthy ONE PENNY to pay for health care.

NT!