Grand Ayatollah Montazeri Takes A Stand

[t0dd]

Source: The Atlantic

Just today, Grand Ayatollah Montazeri came out in support of peaceful protests and against the election results in Iran. Montazeri is one of the most respected clerics in Iran and was the apparent heir to Khomeini when Khamenei outmaneuvered him for the position of Supreme Leader.
More here: http://occident.blogspot.com/2009/06/confirmed-montazeri-questions-election.html and http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/16/743169/-Montazeri-endores-the-Protest-Movement-in-Iran

In the name of God
People of Iran

These last days, we have witnessed the lively efforts of you brothers and sisters, old and young alike, from any social category, for the 10th presidential elections.

Our youth, hoping to see their rightful will fulfilled, came on the scene and waited patiently. This was the greatest occasion for the government’s officials to bond with their people.

But unfortunately, they used it in the worst way possible. Declaring results that no one in their right mind can believe, and despite all the evidence of crafted results, and to counter people protestations, in front of the eyes of the same nation who carried the weight of a revolution and 8 years of war, in front of the eyes of local and foreign reporters, attacked the children of the people with astonishing violence. And now they are attempting a purge, arresting intellectuals, political opponents and Scientifics.

Now, based on my religious duties, I will remind you :

1- A legitimate state must respect all points of view. It may not oppress all critical views. I fear that this lead to the lost of people’s faith in Islam.

2- Given the current circumstances, I expect the government to take all measures to restore people’s confidence. Otherwise, as I have already said, a government not respecting people’s vote has no religious or political legitimacy.

3- I invite everyone, specially the youth, to continue reclaiming their dues in calm, and not let those who want to associate this movement with chaos succeed.

4- I ask the police and army personals not to “sell their religion”, and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before god. Recognize the protesting youth as your children. Today censor and cutting telecommunication lines can not hide the truth.

I pray for the greatness of the Iranian people.

Read more: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/grand-ayatollah-montazeri-takes-a-stand.html

---

[bdamomma]

1. Grand Ayatullah Husayn (Hossein) 'Ali Montazeri

what are going to do about the election outcome?

[pasto76]

5. he just did something

he said said to investigate the results. To stop violence. And warned the devout muslim police and military that "following orders" to shoot or beat or destroy property will not excuse you in the eyes of God.

Im glad he made this statement. Even The President of Iran serves under the ausipice of the Grand Ayatollah.

[David__77]

2. He is a long-standing opponent of the Iranian government.

He was under house arrest until 2003. His words are good, but will carry little weight among policymakers in Iran.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Are we permitted to use blogs for LBN ?

Just asking. :shrug:

[t0dd]

6. Yeah, I bet you are just asking

And I think given how poor the media has been to cover developments, relying on Andrew Sullivan, who has been diligently blogging on this, should be acceptable.

[dipsydoodle]

7. See DU LBN rules since you've picked up on my question

which genuinely was just out of curiousity originally.

4. Whenever possible, post excerpts and links from reputable mainstream news sources that are available online. Do not link to blogs, vanity sites, or blatantly biased sources, except in cases where reputable mainstream sources are not available.

[t0dd]

10. "... where reputable mainstream sources are not available."

Glad we got that clarified.

[dipsydoodle]

12. You could've quoted that to me before

but didn't which demonsrtated you either hadn't read or ignored the rules. Maybe get your parents to them read them to you next time.

Aside from that the sub link on that site goes to the blog of an Iranian student in Indiana who may be biased. Doncha find it strange that if you search the subject there is no other mention out there other than your link and DU.

[t0dd]

13. No no.. remember, you were the one that didn't know how to find the rules.

Glad you found them. I'm actually already well aware. And yeah, except that blog directs to a publication on Montazeri's official website, and several sources have confirmed the translation is legitimate. Great, thanks! Have a good day.

[ohio2007]

22. the mods prefer yesterdays, dinosaur breaking news format. I say a new forum might be in order

just sayin

Some blog stuff may be speculation rumor, Some stuff is actual pre vetted news content that certain MSM may pick upand run with five hrs later.
Then the rest of the MSM may fall in.

[dipsydoodle]

23. The fact remains

that, for example, the first war in Irag was finally agreed by your Congress based on the completely fabricated testimony of the Kuwati ambassador's daughter posing as a nurse - not from acredited news sources. The first war led to the second and the deaths of anything up to a million people. I am averse to gossip.

In this instance there is an article composed by an Iranian student in Indiana which has appeared in a blog. If you google the subject the only references are from the blog, other blogs which have picked up on the former blog and DU.

I've been out for nearly 4 hours and yet still no news sources have made any mention of this. Does that not surprise you ?

I agree fully with your suggestion that perhaps another forum might be in order. To me there is no difference between unsubstantiated blog reports and twitter chat which may in time be an equal problem.

[ohio2007]

33. You should post something in LBN and see if it flys or gets moved.

To where It gets moved is a general problem imo.

You feel Saddams annex of the 19th province of Iraq was just ? Saddam did invade due to the words of the US ambassador at the time saying "How you handle your war debts is the financial business between yourself and the Kuwaiti lenders" ie "Handle the problems as you see fit". Quwait demanding repayment of war loans ( now that the Iran/Iraq war ended )should have been cancelled? In his own words, Sectarian Saddam was holding of "the revolution" that threatened the mini gulf states and now the mini states demand loans paid back for Saddam doing the dirty work ?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-05/20/content_444391.htm


hidsight being 20/20

maybe bin Laden and his 'fighters' should have expelled Saddam

[keopeli]

4. We could have used an eloquent leader such as this in the U.S. in 2000.

I, too, pray for the people of Iran that their chosen destiny be rightfully fulfilled. How wonderful to have leaders who will stand up and speak such words.

To be fair, having a crowd of millions and millions surround you is a great safety net for such a person to speak freely. Our coup in 2000 was much more carefully crafted and Americans, like myself, have never been compelled to protest in such an open and "en mass" fashion. Never again...

[lsewpershad]

19. keopeli

By "never again" I hope you mean we will not allow another electiont be stolen. It happened twice in the last two elections and we allowed it. next time we should, like the Iranians, be protesting by the millions.

[keopeli]

46. precisely.

our culture of over-worked, under-paid, easily-distracted, lackadaisical, non-participatory citizens must come to an end. Thus my comment that our own election debacle should never happen again.

[lsewpershad]

20. keopeli

By "never again" I hope you mean we will not allow another electiont be stolen. It happened twice in the last two elections and we allowed it. next time we should, like the Iranians, be protesting by the millions.

[Wizard777]

8. This is a Wise man who's faith in God cannot be shaken by the politics of man.

God Bless him and all who see the light of Wisdom.

[Mopar151]

15. Can we trade Pat Robertson

Creflo Dollar, and a charlatan to be named later? A humble man of faith , asking only for peace and learning. Wadda we gotta do, to get more like him?

[Wizard777]

16. Too funny! I think we would be getting the better end of that deal.

:spray: :rofl:

[Jack Rabbit]

9. Wise words

K/R

[provis99]

11. is Montazeri an Azeri like Moussavi?

Cynical me says ethnic loyalty is more involved here than any pious proclamations about whether the voting was fair or not.

[Odin2005]

18. IIRC Iran's ethnic Azeris are pretty loyal to the Iranian state.

Wasn't Mossadeg an Azeri?

[Alamuti Lotus]

26. random note - more Azeris in Iran than in Azerbaijan

[The Hope Mobile]

14. "no one in their right mind"

wow! SCOTUS - are you listening?

[4lbs]

17. Well, to be fair, even though there were some electoral happenings in 2000 and 2004, no one came out

and tried to claim that Bush got almost twice the number of popular votes as either Gore or Kerry.

In Iran, the hardline Mullahs actually tried to tell their people, and the world, that the incumbent got almost twice the number of popular votes as the main challenger. This goes against everything we've been seeing for the past several weeks.

[The Hope Mobile]

24. I realize this is a bit more obvious but when there's a question of fairness

the top authority in Iran is saying "recount" (as much as possible) which SCOTUS IMHO absolutely had the duty to do as well.

[ohio2007]

21. Still they shoot peaceful protesters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e33Ce5Mk18

[EFerrari]

44. What is the context on that vid? Thanks.

[Alamuti Lotus]

25. bit of a hypocrite

he broke with Imam Khumayni(RA) and forfeited his successorship to him over Mousavi's mass executions of MKI/Tudeh militants -- now he discovers Mousavi's rioters as the heros?

[jefferson_dem]

27. Iran's senior ayatollah slams election, confirming split

Source: McClatchy

By Warren P. Strobel and Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers

TEHRAN, Iran — Supporters of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his main rival in the disputed presidential election, Mir Hossein Mousavi, massed in competing rallies Tuesday as the country's most senior Islamic cleric threw his weight behind opposition charges that Ahmadinejad's re-election was rigged.

"No one in their right mind can believe" the official results from Friday's contest, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri said of the landslide victory claimed by Ahmadinejad. Montazeri accused the regime of handling Mousavi's charges of fraud and the massive protests of his backers "in the worst way possible."

"A government not respecting people's vote has no religious or political legitimacy," he declared in comments on his official Web site. "I ask the police and army personals (personnel) not to 'sell their religion,' and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before God."

As many as three more protesters were reported killed in clashes during Tuesday's opposition demonstration in Vanak Square — adding to eight who were confirmed killed in Monday's protests.

Foreign news organizations were barred from covering Wednesday's demonstrations, and the source of the report of the latest deaths was a witness known to McClatchy, who asked that his name not be used for his own security.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iran/story/70155.html

[myrna minx]

28. This is amazing to watch unfold. K&R n/t

[sofa king]

30. Yeah, but I've already seen it.

[ohio2007]

29. What a difference a year makes

November 2007

Death to America Day
To keep some perspective (at least from the American point of view) let's not forget that these same people (metaphorically speaking) who are protesting in the streets of Tehran are the same ones that celebrate "Death to America" day each year in November, which commemorates the taking of our embassy and the holding of 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. This was no less than an act of war on t More..heir part.


snip

video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=72e_1245190059

Take the vote after reading and watching the vid



'What will be the final result of Iranian elections?'

. Ahmadinejad stays in power, protests crushed

. Tomorrow they all shout "Death to America" again

. Ahmadinejad loses in recount, Mousavi assumes control

[humbled_opinion]

31. Historic, I feel like we are on the verge of something big...n/t

[whyverne]

32. Crazy religious fanatic

How could we possibly find anything in common with these Ayatollahs?

Did you see what he said? "A government not respecting people's vote has no religious or political legitimacy."

What a nut case.

No wonder the Republicans don't want to talk to these zealots.

[jberryhill]

34. Did He Mention Al Franken? /nt

[lindisfarne]

35. Link to non-blog source: Iran's senior ayatollah slams election, confirming split

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iran/story/70155.html
(same link as #27)
...
Montazeri's pointed public comments provided fresh evidence that a serious rift has opened at the top of Iran's powerful religious hierarchy after Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei endorsed the official election results and the harsh crackdown against the opposition.

A leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution who's often feuded with Khamenei and once vied with him for the supreme leader's position, Montazeri accused the government of attacking "the children of the people with astonishing violence" and "attempting a purge, arresting intellectuals, political opponents and scientifics."

[Turborama]

36. Article apparently quoting from his website: "Senior cleric warns guards against harming protesters"

Washington, 16 June (WashingtonTV)—A senior Iranian cleric and dissenter, Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, today issued a message regarding the tenth presidential election and the controversial vote count, which delivered a landslide victory to incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Montazeri called on officials as well as security and police forces “to safeguard their religion and not to sell it for the world of others.”

He also advised the military: “Consider the protesting youth as your offspring, and desist harsh and inhumane confrontations.”

According to a report on the website of the office of Grand Ayatollah Montazeri, he also said that “at the current juncture,” one cannot hide realities from people “with censorship, and cutting off and limiting communication facilities.”

=snip=


He explained: “Unfortunately, the worst use was made of the best opportunity. By announcing results which no sound intellect accepts, and based on reliable evidence, major changes have been made in the votes of the people and, following that, on the heels of protests by some with regard to this conduct, in front of these people’s eyes…and in front of the eyes of the world...{they have) attacked the offspring of this people and this nation, and with total aggression, have confronted the defenseless women men and dear students, and have suppressed, beaten and arrested them.”

Full article: http://televisionwashington.com/floater_article1.aspx?lang=en&t=1&id=11315

[EFerrari]

37. Top Iran cleric: election rigged

Source: McClatchy

June 17, 2009

TEHRAN, Iran – Supporters of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his main rival in the disputed presidential election, Mir Hossein Mousavi, massed in competing rallies Tuesday as the country’s most senior Islamic cleric threw his weight behind opposition charges that Ahmadinejad’s re-election was rigged.

“No one in their right mind can believe” the official results from Friday’s contest, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri said of the landslide victory claimed by Ahmadinejad. Montazeri accused the regime of handling Mousavi’s charges of fraud and the massive protests of his backers “in the worst way possible.”

“A government not respecting people’s vote has no religious or political legitimacy,” he declared in comments on his official Web site. “I ask the police and army personals (personnel) not to ‘sell their religion,’ and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before God.”

As many as three more protesters were reported killed in clashes during Tuesday’s opposition demonstration in Vanak Square – adding to the eight who were confirmed killed in Monday’s protests.

Read more: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/jun/17/top-iran-cleric-election-rigged/

[and-justice-for-all]

38. It is whom ever the Ayatollah wants as his Rep...

So if he is tired of Mahmoud, Mousavi will replace him. Their 'president' does not run the country, so many people do not understand that.

[DUlover2909]

40. I understand it, but a fraud is a fraud. The Iranians at least can see that.

This is good news. I'm glad to see this development.

[and-justice-for-all]

43. I think it is deeper then election fraud...something just does not smell right..nt

[PatrynXX]

42. however there's always a chance

the ayatollah will get pissed at Mahmound and replace him.

[MADem]

39. From the mouth of Montazeri, to the ear of Mousavi......

Sung to the tune of the The USMC tune...!

My favorite line, that the kids in the street ought to chant:

“A government not respecting people’s vote has no religious or political legitimacy,” he declared in comments on his official Web site. “I ask the police and army personals (personnel) not to ‘sell their religion,’ and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before God.”

[Turborama]

41. Previously posted here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3925430

[Old Hob]

45. OMG, Iranian Democracy is a sham! I never would have suspected that!!!

:sarcasm: