Hezbollah camp loses Lebanon election

[Douglas Carpenter]

Source: Reuters

BEIRUT (Reuters) - An anti-Syrian coalition, known as "March 14," defeated the "March 8" alliance composed of Hezbollah and its allies in Lebanon's parliamentary election on Sunday, politicians on both sides said.

Following is reaction from Lebanese politicians:

SAAD AL-HARIRI, LEADER OF ANTI-SYRIAN COALITION

Congratulations to Lebanon, congratulations to democracy, congratulations to freedom. The Lebanese have proved today their commitment to freedom and democracy. There are no winners and losers in this election, the only winner is democracy and the biggest winner is Lebanon.

LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER FOUAD SINIORA, MARCH 14

On his Sidon victory: "I dedicate this victory, God willing, to Lebanon and the Lebanese and the soul of the martyr Rafik al-Hariri."

I was leaning toward thinking that there is a majority that will be preserved and may achieve more gains. I believe that we have made steps forward and the most important thing to consider is ... to act humbly and this is what should judge the future performance, embrace all of the nation's people to take our country to the future.


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5561XN20090607

---

Hezbollah was predicted to win by most experts. This is unexpected and great news!

[SkyDaddy7]

1. I agree, Great News!

[Alamuti Lotus]

2. 'great news'--how exactly?

[karynnj]

3. Because Hezbollah did not win the election - which many thought a real possibility

That would have made everything MUCH MUCH worse, as did Hamas' victory in Palestinian elections.

[Alamuti Lotus]

4. since the status quo is mighty plusawesome?

Examine clearly who "won" in this case and you will find there is nothing to cheer. Look beyond the corrisive euphemisms employed by the lazy reporting endemic to subjects such as this.

[karynnj]

10. Hezbollah would have been far worse and some of those running

are people who have risked much and paid steep prices to lead. Here is a 2007 op-ed by Senator Kerry - I agree with what he was saying then - http://www.johnkerry.com/news/entry/a_crucial_time_for_saving_lebanons_fragile_democracy/

[Alamuti Lotus]

12. comparing Sa'id Hariri to George Washington

and repeating the line about Egypt/Jordan/Saudi Arabia being "moderate" simply because they are on the take -- you really agree with all that shallow rubbish?

[karynnj]

13. I haven't heard a more sensible solution from you

How exactly would you support in the Middle East - Hezbollah and Hamas?

[Alamuti Lotus]

15. wasn't aware that I must solve the world's problems before entering a debate..

That's fine, I just wasn't prepared for it. That could be no worse than supporting the likes of Hariri the Lesser, the Phalange, Samir Gaegea, Netanyahoo and that kind and gentle IDF, the 'Moderate' Egyptian dictator Mubarak and his torture centers, Jordan's Playstation King and his own fine torture centers, the Saudi King who apparently overflows with wisdom and his princely cohorts.. Quite a fine cast of characters assembled there (all flattered and praised by the "greatest source of progress in the world"), all willing to bend over and properly worship the Almighty (greenback). Is this systemic policy of bribery, extortion and racketeering really sensible by any standard?

[Alamuti Lotus]

14. meet Khalid Daher, a new safe beacon of 'pro-Western' democracy

Meet the new MP, Khalid Daher. He won on the Hariri list in `Akkar. This Bin Ladenite is now part of the coalition that the Western media insists on labeling as "pro-Western." I am not sure how Daher would react if you were to call him "pro-Western." Pro-medieval would be more appropriate. Mr. Daher allegedly helped recruit volunteers for Abu Mus`ab Zarqawi. By the way, was Zarqawi "pro-Western" too?

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2009/06/pro-westernsalafite-jihadi.html

[ohio2007]

19. Did anybody ever top to think that maybe more Muslims viewed Hezbollah as the Ralph Nader Greens?

If the ballot boxes were truly secret......and free.....maybe they feared Hezbollah more then "the enemy" to the south.

yes,

Most improbable.
People want to see friction in southern Lebanon,not reconciliation
:sarcasm:
The Lebanese wanted Hezbollah to disarm several years ago but they didn't.

So
maybe what they are really saying at the ballot box to Hezbollah;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSDaT7nJXY
Almost 40 yrs later and do the words still fit today ?

[Alamuti Lotus]

21. vacuous, vapid nonsense as can be expected

Examining the votes (which the Opposition recieved around 150,000 more of or 9.4%, by the way) reveals that people voted largely along sectarian lines -- which means, those with the sectarian deck stacked obscenely for them (hint: the worshippers of a man stuck to two planks of wood) come out ahead. No surprise there. Nearly 90-95% of Shiites voted Hizbu'llah, approximately 75-80% of Sunnis voted for Hariri the Lesser, and the Christians were divided three ways between Gen. Aoun / Franjiyyeh / Gemayyel-Gaegea. Aoun & Franjiyyeh appear to have unfortunately suffered for their conflict with Patriarch Sfeir -- but then, Sfeir & Aoun go way, way back. Great feud, bad result in this case.

On the contrary to your claims about Israel, nearly all major candidates of both major camps have verbally attacked the usurping entity and disavowed the ridiculous praise it has given the so-called "moderate" camp, particularly Gaegea (pioneer of the carbomb) and Jumblatt (simply nuts).

But yes, let us throw pesky things like facts, reason, and logic out the window and say it was obviously the Ralph Nader syndrome. Quite obviously. Seriously, what the fuck?

[Douglas Carpenter]

6. among other reasons

The election of Hezbollah in Lebanon would only strengthens the hand of reactionary forces in the United States and in Israel. It give them an excuse.

[Alamuti Lotus]

7. like they need an excuse

the hand of reactionary forces in the United States and Israel should not be held and coddled as if it was something legitimate; should it continue to be raised, the hand should be broken.

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. breaking the hand of the United States or Israel by military means is simply impossible

It will not happen.

I would wish that the whole world would see clearly and unambiguously who wants peace and who is willing to negotiate and who the real recalcitrants and rejectionist really are.

Politically outmaneuvering the reactionary forces in Israel and America is within the range of possibility. It can be done.

[New Dawn]

5. Lebanon's seats are determined in advance by sect, that is not democratic.

So, before the election occurred, Muslims were only allotted a combined 42% of the seats even though they make up 60% of the population. The fact that US corporate media is singing praises to these inherently undemocratic elections speaks volumes. Lebanon should use proportional representation and party-lists instead, like modern republics do, and NOT allot seats in advance by sect.

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. actually Christians get exactly half the seats and Muslims the other half

- that includes Druze and Alawi's as Muslims. Not everyone would agree that they are Muslims. But, in Lebanon they are generally considered as such despite some of their unorthodox theology.

The political parties represented by the different communities are determined solely by the election. Also what coalition those various political parties from the various communities form to determine the governmental makeup is a matter of political negotiations following the elections.

The alternative to establishing how the various communities will be represented would almost certainly mean plunging the country into more civil war.

Lebanese parliament equally divided between Christians and Muslims

Published: Friday, 24 April, 2009 @ 7:22 PM in Beirut

link: http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2009/04/lebanese_parlia_1.php

Beirut - A new parliament to be elected in Lebanon on June 7 will be apportioned among Christian and Muslim sects under a power-sharing formula that also divvies up Lebanon's main leadership positions by religion.


Under the 1989 agreement to end a 15-year civil war, the 128-seat parliament is divided equally between Christians and Muslims, and subdivided among the largest of the country's recognized 18 religious sects.

On the Christian side, Maronites get 34 seats, Greek Orthodox 14, Greek Catholics 8 , Armenians 6, Protestants 1 and another minority sect 1. On the Muslim side, Sunnis and Shiites each get 27 seats, the Druse sect 8 and the Alawite sect 2.

Under an unwritten but unbending tradition since Lebanon won independence in 1943, the president must be a Christian Maronite , the prime minister a Sunni Muslim and the speaker of parliament a Shiite Muslim. The Cabinet must be divided evenly between Christians and Muslims.

The number of the candidates for the upcoming election is 587

[karynnj]

11. Then they need to change their constitution - not us

This would be like someone in another country arguing that the Senate over-represents the less populated states - most of which, but not all of which, are Republican. We do not adhere to your standards - and the least populated states are over- represented in the House and the Electoral Congress.

[ohio2007]

17. The Iranian model disqualified 60% of the candidates on the "purity laws" because their reformist

views did not hold Iran in their best interests. Funny Sean Penn didn't elaborate much about those canidates. Maybe he felt the Iranian model was just in doing so :shrug:

moot point as this thread is about Lebanese abuses of democracy so I hope I didn't high jack the thread pointing out an ironic twist the two countries share. ;)

[ohio2007]

16. a caucus system is used that pre determines which candidate will run for POTUS

So if you look to the not so distant past, it's actually a few key states combined with a few spin debates that pick who will be the presidential candidate choices

Thats not exactly democratic either but thats the system we have.
Does what they have there need reformed any less then what we have here ?

so...go ahead and cry in your beer if your horse lost

If you don't like the spin of the possibility that two countries sharing a common border may be willing to sit down and consider that
the pen is mightier then the sword..

Lebanon vote undercuts Hezbollah, boost for Obama

BEIRUT (AP) - A pro-Western coalition won Lebanon's parliamentary elections Monday, dealing a major setback to the Iranian-backed Hezbollah and giving a boost to Barack Obama's Middle East peace policy.

Coming just days after the American president reached out to the Muslim world, the vote undercuts the most militant force in Lebanese politics.

snip
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090608/D98MNSBO1.html

..you can always sign up, put on a vest and go "protest" in a righteous manner that assures the circle of violence you feel a kinship to with the party of god will continue.

[New Dawn]

18. Pathetic argument. Political parties selecting candidates internally...

...has no comparison with a parliament's seats being determined in advance by sect, particularly when a country's majority is being deprived of a fair number of seats. If the same type of system were used here it would be just as undemocratic as it is in Lebanon.

[Alamuti Lotus]

20. beyond that, the Opposition received around 55% of the actual popular vote

Which is meaningless in context of actual seats, but emphasizes the point.