Ruling allowing Taser use to get DNA may be nation’s first

[my2sense]

Source: Buffalo News

Ruling allowing Taser use to get DNA may be nation’s first

By Thomas J. Prohaska
NEWS NIAGARA REPORTER
LOCKPORT — It is legally permissible for police to zap a suspect with a Taser to obtain a DNA sample, as long as it’s not done “maliciously, or to an excessive extent, or with resulting injury,” a county judge has ruled in the first case of its kind in New York State, and possibly the nation.

Niagara County Judge Sara Sheldon Sperrazza decided that the DNA sample obtained Sept. 29 from Ryan S. Smith of Niagara Falls — which ties him to a shooting and a gas station robbery— is legally valid and can be used at his trial.

Smith was handcuffed and sitting on the floor of Niagara Falls Police Headquarters when he was zapped with the 50,000- volt electronic stun gun after he insisted he would not give a DNA sample.

Read more: http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/692141.html

[Dead_Parrot]

1. Oh, great

So the cops can now potentially kill someone to find out if they're innocent?

Fuck it, why not just bring back the ducking stool and be done with it?

[paulsby]

3. it's arguably less risky

and potentially injurious to health than wrestling him into compliance, especially in the controlled environment of a holding facility.

i've been tased twice btw

[Dead_Parrot]

5. 200 deaths in 5 years?

I'd hate to see what you'd consider more risky.

[paulsby]

first of all

just because somebody dies after being tased, does not establish causality. autopsy reports HAVE reported tasers contributed to death. sure.

fwiw, hundreds of people have died merely after wrestling with cops.

that's my point. that's ALSO dangerous.

also note that the DNA tasing requires only ONE tasing. not multiple (the more tasings, the more dangerous, ceteris paribus).

it is neither easy nor safe to wrestle somebody into handcuffs or into submissal to DNA sampling. i have seen broken bones. i have seen sprains.

i once had a guy STOP BREATHING after my partner and i spent about 5 minutes wrestling him into handcuffs. he lived, but he easily COULD HAVE DIED.

tasing is incredibly safe.

scores of thousands of people have been tased with ZERO ill effects.

and as i explain, ANY use of physical force can help contribute to a death.

the facts are that in agencies that have adopted tasers - officer involved deaths have gone DOWN, suspect injuries and deaths have gone DOWN, etc.

[Dead_Parrot]

8. So, autopsy them first to see if it's safe?

Wait, that's not right.

We're not talking about somebody roaming around the streets with a machete, or even whirling his fists around the front desk: we're talking about a guy already in handcuffs sitting on the floor of the station: No serious threat there, unless you've spent the last 3 years in the donut shop and can no longer see your own toes.

If a handcuffed guy sitting on the floor is giving you grief - a menacing stare, maybe, or some really harsh language - stick the bugger back in a cell for an hour to think about it. Hell, tell him you won't take the 'cuffs off until he agrees: As soon as he wants to pee, he'll reconsider his priorities.

The problem isn't the taser per se, it's the attitude of "if in doubt, knock him out".

[paulsby]

9. i wasn't aware

he was already in cuffs. if that's the case, then it's different analysis.

[Dead_Parrot]

13. Hmmm

There's a moral here about gathering the available evidence (reading the OP, in this case) before automatically assuming that the taser is best option.

I'll leave you to ponder it.

[paulsby]

14. strawman

i NEVER said the taser was the best option.

read what i wrote again. i said it ARGUABLY might be less risky.

that is SUBSTANTIALLY different.

but you are correct that i did not gather all the available evidence. my bad

[Dead_Parrot]

15. Fair enough...

mine too.

:hi:

[shanti]

21. oh look

a cop...

"spare me the tazer kills crap"?

[Wizard777]

12. He was already restrained. They could have also obtained the DNA from a hair tag.

Since you have been tazed. Would you rather be tased or have a hair pulled?

[paulsby]

16. as i stated to another

i did not realize he had already been restrained.

my bad d00d (or d00dette)

[Wizard777]

23. That's okay. I'm amazed they didn't shoot him to get the DNA from his blood.

[JJ]

20. what about due process

A warrant is required to compel giving a dna sample. The cops just decided to bypass the legal process, and get a sample any way they could. The dna should have been thrown out as illegally obtained. They should have just gotten a warrant like the constitution used to require.

ooops, there was a warrant, teach me yo shoot my mouth off before following the link

never mind the above.

But what's next, ok to shoot a hunk of skin off to get a sample?

[paulsby]

2. creative.

fwiw, i once had to (with the help of a few of my coworkers0 wrestle a guy into compliance who was refusing to give a blood sample (which we were authorized to take via court order). every time you have to wrestle somebody, you risk injury to yourself and him.

the taser would be an effective way to get some DNA with less risk to his safety (spare me the tasers kill crap plz. tia) :)

of course the taser wouldn't work for a blood sample, but dna sample. sure.

[eShirl]

4. maybe they can design a taser-like dna collector that doesn't send any voltage

[Dead_Parrot]

6. You can get biopsy darts for air guns

They're used a lot in wildlife study: One of them to the leg might be a better alternative.

[DallasNE]

7. This Decision Makes No Sense

If a non-voluntary method of capturing DNA is indeed lawful (it sounds like an illegal seizure on the surface) then less invasive measures should be used -- like cutting off a lock of hair. It would surprise me if this is not overturned on appeal.

[pasto76]

10. you need to the root/follicle for DNA.

[izquierdista]

17. So easy to get

DNA is so easy to get from a person confined to a cell (cigarette butt, saliva off a cup, urine, feces, sheets, kleenex, etc.) that the only reason to taser a prisoner is to remind him that you are an ASSHOLE with a badge.

[downindixie]

11. There has been 350 deaths following taser use!

The fact that these people died within hours or immediately after tasering would bring up a lot of questions.It sure looks like cause and effect is in play.We use electrical shock on hearts in the emergency rooms and pacemakers to keep the heart beating correctly,but they have to be done properly.Maybe a taser at the wrong time might cause the people to split a T wave.Don't forget there is a lot of money behind its continued use and sales.

How about its application at an inappropiate time like the cop who tasered a guy who was on a second floor ledge.The fall killed the man.

I do believe there are times when it is appropiate like a man armed with a knife threatening to kill himself,but tasering a 72 y.o. great grandmother or a child is wrong.Tasering is being used much to much now.I,ve wrestled and fought plenty of times with people to handcuff them.Bruises,sprains,torn uniforms are part of the job.I'm all for two man patrols too! One man patrols get a lot of officers in trouble.Back up cars are great,but sometimes they don't show up before the trouble starts.

[pscot]

18. What happened to the fourth amendment?

Does it simply not apply any more?

[Sinistrous]

25. The 4th Amendment died the "Death of a Thousand Cuts" in

the "War on Drugs".

[southshore]

19. Makes life easier for all of us.

The judge that issued the ruling was the same judge that issued the initial order. In effect, she was ruling on an appeal of her own ruling. It will be interesting to see what the 7 wise men in Albany think (when it gets that far.)

Seems that, in the mean time, it will make the enforcement of court orders a whole lot easier in NYS. Not paying child support? Taze them until they find their wallet. Refuse to testify? Hit 'em with the stun gun! Don't like their answer? Hit 'em again!!!!

Maybe there might be some job opportunities for the out of work Blackwater guys.

[Suji to Seoul]

22. I can just see the interrogation

COP: Confess!!

Suspect: No! I wasn't there.

Zzzzzzzzzzz!!!!

Suspect: Aaaaaaaaaargh!!!!

COP: Confess!!

Suspect: No! I wasn't there.

Zzzzzzzzzzz!!!!

Suspect (weaker): aaaaaargh!!!

COP: Just confess and I'll make it stop!!

Suspect: No! I'm innocent

Zzzzzzzzzzz!!!!

Suspect (weaker): aaaaaargh. . .okay. i did it (passes out)

On the official report, the cop writes: "Suspect was combative and hostile. Felt threatened! Taser was necessary."

And cop lickers and their subservient judges will just just accept the cops' words as the G-d's honest truth because we all know police never lie.

fyi: I can't open the smiles menu, so I can't put in the dripping sarcasm icon.

[Tzimisce]

24. Yes...

...because all police officers are lying scumbags, don't you know... :eyes:

I'm of the opinion that if you take a swing at a cop, brandish at or use a weapon on a cop, or shoot at a cop, you deserve what's coming to you. You've bought it, it's yours, enjoy it. Most cops are decent, hard-working men and women who want to protect people in their communities and earn a living while doing so. The anti-cop sentiment here on DU is a little disconcerting. Just because a few of them overstep their bounds or use excessive force, all of them are painted as out-of-control assholes who use their badge as a reason to beat the hell out of people. Hold them accountable for when they overstep, but don't tar the rest of them with the same brush.

The same people who wail about right-wingers tarring all Muslims with the terrorist brush are the ones who immediately blame the cop in any situation where there's a question about how law enforcement handled a situation. Prejudice is prejudice, no matter what group of people it's aimed at.

[Suji to Seoul]

26. They protect their own with the Blue Code of Silence

Please. . .if a cop turned on his buddies in blue, he can kiss his career goodbye.

Good cop, bad cop. . .they are all cops. You want to sniff some badge, be my guest. IAD is a joke and a cope can say whatever he wants on his report and most people (I would include you in that list) would accept it as 100%.

After all, if the person did nothing wrong, they never would have been arrested.

And who cares if the person is handcuffed. We need DNA. . .instead of a slow torture like a taser, let's hook up his gonads to a car battery.

Why not WATERBOARD HIM into giving DNA!?!