Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

[Old Coot]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., raised the issue with Obama during a private meeting Tuesday with the president and other Democratic senators and later reported the president's response: "It's on the table. It's an option."

The federal government would reap about $250 billion a year if it treated health care benefits given to employees like wages and taxed them.

Baucus and others are eyeing that money as they search for ways to pay for a costly health care overhaul that would extend coverage to 50 million Americans who are now uninsured. That could cost some $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

The president adamantly opposed health benefit taxes during the campaign, arguing they would undermine job-based coverage. But he's now indicating openness to that suggestion from Congress, even if he criticized Republican presidential rival John McCain for proposing a sweeping version of the same basic idea.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_overhaul

---

I am very disappointed in our president for even considering taxing health care benefits.

[rockymountaindem]

1. Yeah, if we had wanted that we could have voted for McCain

since he was plugging that idea.

[MichiganVote]

10. Amen to that. Tax these at your peril Democrats.

[Xenotime]

110. Why will this matter if we get Universal Healthcare?

Then only the wealth will be paying for their squishy doctors and tax the fuck out of them for all I care.

[customerserviceguy]

11. Not even

McLame was saying that he'd give a tax credit towards health insurance. Frankly, that would make health insurance continue to be tax free for those at the bottom of the ladder, with low tax brackets and minimum benefits, while it would actually have hit some of the richer folks who have solid gold health plans.

Bad idea, President Obama needs to forget about this. It would be the first explicit campaign promise that he would be going back on.

[kikiek]

24. Average wage union workers who forgoe some raises for better health care benefits.

[Better Believe It]

103. Union officials have given up raises to keep the old health care benefits, not improvements

[ingac70]

123. The "old" health benefits were better. n/t

[OhioChick]

15. No shit. n/t

[ihavenobias]

97. How nice would it be to hear something like *this* instead...

'Obama Admin proposes slashing the payroll tax while removing cap'. I know this is slightly off topic, but there are so many good opportunities (that I fear will not be seized) with regard to tax reform that actually helps the working/middle class.

Reagan doubled the payroll tax (the largest middle class tax increase in history) and we still have this insane cap...I always forget the exact amount, but I know it's not more than $100,000, i.e. people aren't taxed beyond their first 100k or so of income. Since cons and libertarians love flat taxes so much, why not make it a flat tax? That way us paycheck to paycheck folks can be taxed at the same total percentage (in this one case) as Bill Gates or Rupert Murdoch.

[DissedByBush]

25. I'll get reamed

I pay dearly for a health plan that covers my entire family well. It is a fairly good-sized chunk of my pay but well worth it.

My taxes will go through the roof if this happens.

I am well under the $250,000 income level that Obama promised wouldn't see raised taxes.

[Hannah Bell]

140. if you pay for the plan, i don't think you'd be taxed on it. only if your employer pays.

[DissedByBush]

146. Go halfsies

My taxes will go up considerably. If my company's taxes go up that's just less they'll have to pay me. Kiss a raise goodbye.

[No Elephants]

144. Income, monetary and otherwise, gets taxed, not things you pay for. From what you've said, nothing

will change for you. With a little luck, maybe someone will even see you get a deduction of some kind as incentive for taking care of your own health care.

Isn't good health care coverage a blessing? I have it and I had a catastrophic illness. I feel I would have died, had it not been for my great coverage. As it was, they may have given me four times the care I really needed. Still, for me, it's better than being dead.

[L0oniX]

55. +1

[DissedByBush]

99. "...no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase"

"I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

Barack Obama, September 12, 2008, Dover, N.H.

Dare we believe such a strongly stated promise? If it is broken, dare we believe anything else?

Or do we get a loophole, "Raising your taxes wasn't my plan. It was Congress' plan and I just signed it. So I really didn't lie."

[Honeycombe8]

156. Yes, I remember that, too. No taxing of healthcare benefits. Why? Here's why:

It's a benefit that you ONLY receive the benefit of if you use it! That is, if you are healthy and go to the doctor only once for a checkup...WHERE'S THE BENEFIT YOU REC'D? As opposed to someone with cancer who rec'd thousands of dollars in insurance payments?

IF TAXED, THEN TAX ONLY THE AMOUNT YOU REC'D. For the health person who had one checkup, the benefit she rec'd was maybe $100. For the ill person who rec'd treatments, the benefit she rec'd was maybe $50,000.

But they shouldn't be taxed at all. It's not like having a company car, that every recipient of it receives the same benefit.

If this is taxed, what next? My employer kicks in $ to help us with paid parking for work. Should that be taxed? RIDICULOUS!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. This is Max Baucus CLAIMING it's "on the table."

Consider the source.

[Dr Fate]

36. He seems to get his way as to what is on the table and what is not.

Or at least the lobbyists who give him bribe money seem to get *their* way.

I hope the source is wrong too, but in the recent past, Baucus has had the final word on what is on the table and what is not.

[LiberalFighter]

127. He needs to be taken out to the woodshed and reamed.

[CBHagman]

148. Yeah, I want to hear more details first.

That said, I do want to call my senators and congressman, who are generally good eggs, and of course Baucus, whom I've never particularly liked or trusted, to get the gory details of what they're considering.

[Thrill]

3. Didn't Robert Reich say that was the way to do it?

[Davis_X_Machina]

18. Reich's article...

....here.

Ezra Klein reaches an identical conclusion.

I await the announcement that they're both right-wing hacks in the pay of the insurance industry....

[Marksbrother]

4. This is an example of why sophisticated rich people and...

their representatives in the House and Senate are far more comfortable with Obama than many of us! They all know he is
a conventional politician who is not about to make any big waves.

[bluestateguy]

5. Poorly written anonymously sourced story

In one ear, out the other.

Next.

[santamargarita]

6. Exactly right, bluestateguy - consider the source or lack of...

I think they plant this bullshit so we will go after President Obama.

[pauldg0]

108. Right.....

...I'm glad you brought that up.

I should have known...I am starting to check the crap that comes across the air.

Paid off media. We have to expose these repuk bastards to the populace.

[Dr Fate]

7. Now that is one sick tax.

I mean a "Sick Tax", that is. Not like a "phat" tax.

Instead of taxing my benefits, why not tax a few billionares, or end the war in Iraq and use that money? Oh- I forgot- those are the guys who give all the bribe money to people like Baucus.

LOL! Something tells me that sick people are going to need a lobbyist or two- and quick!!!

[AllentownJake]

8. He does this, and I promise you

I will not even vote for him in 2012.

[MichiganVote]

12. Yup. Total deal breaker.

[AllentownJake]

13. Gives me $12 more a paycheck to take $50 more

and I'm single.

I can't imagine what my co-worker who just got divorced and her husband was laid off is going to have to pay since she gets 4X the benefit I do.

They want to implement the largest middle class tax hike in American History. I'm done with them.

[paulsby]

14. i'd lost about 300 a MONTH. $3500 a year

it's a deal breaker for me.

[kikiek]

27. No kidding. I even wrote an editorial using this exact issue to highlight differences

between Obama and McCain. I am expecting to hear from Obama this isn't true. If he doesn't come out and say that I am done.

[ChromeFoundry]

16. I hear you. n/t

[PSPS]

26. I've already largely written him off.

President Milquetoast he is.

Just add this to the lengenthing list of his bush-lite policies:

- Tax you healthcare
- "State Secrets"
- Wiretapping
- Gitmo "courts"
- Torture coverup
- Afghanistan
- Iraq

At this rate, Obama's sure to get challenged in the primary in 2012 and, by then, most of his worshippers will have seen the light. At least I hope so.

[Thrill]

32. YAWN. He won't get a Primary challenge no matter what

And this is the same old overreacting that people did when they said everything was on the table for the Vets insurance. Everything on the table doesn't mean thats what they're going to do

[AllentownJake]

34. People being pissed

takes things off the table.

[OhioChick]

81. Damn Straight. n/t

[avaistheone1]

116. No matter what?

Don't think so... unless people have lost their minds altogether.

[Cant trust em]

107. Torture coverup? You must be kidding me.

He's already declassified documents taht detailed what has really been going on. Remember Dick Cheney jumping up and down that Obama has been making our country less safe? Man, memories sure are short around here.

[Thrill]

30. So now, people disagree with Robert Reich?

He said this was the way to go

[AllentownJake]

33. Robert Reich

Doesn't have 3 kids on a plan and a husband/wife who just lost their job. Like some of my co-workers.

Do this, they vote GOP next election cycle. Very simple.

[Thrill]

39. voting GOP won't help. They're happy if you don;'t have health insurance

or if its so high you can't afford. Thats the answer!!

[AllentownJake]

98. I'm voting 3rd party they pull this shit

They'll vote GOP. Its not an argument it is a fact.

[avaistheone1]

121. I like Robert Reich, but is not the "be all end all".

Robert Reich is also for free trade and lack of protections for US industries and workers. Those are all I things I oppose as a progressive.

[NorthCarolina]

9. Things like this are exactly why I was hoping that America

would FINALLY be ready for a truly Progressive candidate like Kucinich in 2008. Oh well, collective *wisdom*...what'cha gonna do?

[kath]

17. Change I DON'T believe in!

what an absolutely assholish idea, especially in light of his campaign rhetoric.

Asshole. Jeebus H. Christ on a trailer hitch.

[memory]

19. I sincerely hope this is wrong!

If this is something that he supports and signs off on then it will most certainly be a deal breaker for me too. We need health care for all, not health insurance for all and taxing health benefits is the one thing that I would point to in McCain's platform here in very Red Oklahoma that everyone agreed was just WRONG!

[ramapo]

20. More BS by the hour

I think people are going to have to take to the streets before anything changes and since everybody is pretty much glued to their TV and/or computer, it doesn't look good for change.

Here's the scorecard so far:

1. Single payer - No discussion. Complete shutout

2. Public option - Maybe but only via some trigger mechanism invoked only if private insurers do do meet certain TARGETS over TIME. Translation: People without insurance will continue to not have insurance.

3. Tax benefits - Great. Total premium for group family coverage: $18K/yr. I Pay $6K. Then I get taxed on $12K. Then I get to pay copays and deductibles up to $10K out-of-pocket. How is this better?

It is still early in the game but I think the bad guys are winning.

[Old Coot]

22. Don't forget:

4. Mandatory Insurance - Everybody must have insurance or pay a tax penalty of some kind.

[PSPS]

21. More U-bama

How can he stay on his feet after whirring around like a top for the last 4 months? Doesn't this guy believe in anything at all?

[Demobrat]

23. I have absolutely no problem with this.

He can tax the health benefits I get from my employer while I'm working up the wazoo for what I care - as long as it means I'll still have those benefits when I'm not working. Things change. Jobs end. And I have no problem paying more than my share when things are going well for me if it means help will be available when they go badly - for me or anyone else. I think that's what it means to be human. But I guess that's just me.

[AllentownJake]

28. Fuck that he'll make me a liar

I knocked on doors and one of my talking points was this was an aspect of the McCain plan.

He does this, one term President.

[Demobrat]

29. And if he uses the money he collects from the comfortably employed

to provide health care for the unemployed? Since you object I can only assume that you have a good job with decent coverage - and couldn't give a shit less about those who don't.

[AllentownJake]

31. Biggest tax increase on the middle class in history

I'm sorry, there are other sources of revenue but congress doesn't have the balls to go after it because those people are the ones writing their checks. Just another example of the American people getting screwed. Another tax increase on Middle America. We just handed out billions to banks, and now they are going to tell me to pay even more.

First he takes single payer off the table from the beginning fine I can live with that he never said that. Now we are talking about adopting part of the McCain plan he campaigned against for 6 months. Fuck that.

Everyone in working America is experiencing cuts. We aren't even getting pay increases to cover inflation.

This isn't fully even about me, I'll lose 1200 a year, what the hell do I say to the people I work with who I encouraged to vote for this guy when they lose $3500 a year when they are already struggling (many of them are now one income households).
What about the Unions that took pay concessions for better Healthcare. Those contracts were negotiated without the knowledge their benefits would be taxed.


Fuck this and Fuck him if he goes for it.

[Demobrat]

41. Tell the people you encouraged to vote for this guy

that when they get laid of they won't lose their health coverage.

[AllentownJake]

42. No, I'll apologize say I was wrong about him

He does this he's worse than McCain. At least McCain was upfront about it.

If the democrats are unwilling to fight for the middle class fuck them. Maybe they need to spend some more time in the wilderness to get it.

[closeupready]

145. Drop the 'if', beginning of your second paragraph, and you've nailed it.

At least with regard to these DLC bozos who need to be kicked to the curb.

[ddiver]

117. I also, recently and currently and in the future, have a problem with the fast and loose

way contracts have been looked at. I am a "my word is my bond" person BUT I want everything in writing. It worries me when these written contracts are not honored.

[kikiek]

35. What is the definition of comfortably employed? Someone who has a job? You

do realize many low wage earners give up raises to get HALFWAY decent health care benefits. And the fight for that health care coverage is vicious. There are still high co pays, deductibles, and costs for the insurance. It is a fantasy to think that because someone has health insurance through their employer they can afford to be taxed on it. It is a bank breaker for most. And despite what it lacks in coverage that insurance is very expensive.

[Demobrat]

37. Anybody who has a job with health insurance is comfortably employed.

Just ask anybody who doesn't.

[AllentownJake]

40. Our expectations in this country have gotten this low?

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

[Demobrat]

49. Do you have any idea what the real unemployment rate is?

Or how many people there are in this country with NO health care of any kind - at all. Anybody who has a job with health care is a member of the privileged class - expectations notwithstanding.

[kikiek]

53. Truly do you really believe that? There is no such thing as working poor? Check around

and then we'll talk. Go to the hotels, hospitals, nursing homes. Hell just about anywhere. People are paying lots of money for crappy coverage they can't afford on their wages. Go get one of those jobs. See how privileged you feel.

[Demobrat]

59. Last I heard people in those professions had no insurance at all.

And when they lose those jobs they'll be right back where they started.

[kikiek]

47. You are wrong.

[Demobrat]

50. You are obviously employed and have health care.

And have no idea how lucky you are.

[AllentownJake]

52. Actually in PA if I was unemployed right now

I'd be on Medicaid which has less co-pays.

[Demobrat]

57. How nice for you.

No wonder you're not willing to help pay for others who are not so lucky.

[AllentownJake]

60. I'm sorry because the rest of the country is fucktards

and my state elects responsible leaders.

[kikiek]

58. It isn't about me. See that is where we differ. I see and pay attention

to what is going on to others. I can afford to be taxed if Obama is really that stupid. Go get one of those jobs I mentioned. Become one of the privileged. Then we'll talk.

[Demobrat]

64. When I worked at a hotel I didn't have insurance at all.

Nor did I when I worked at a restaurant, or a gas station. I guess things have improved since then.

[kikiek]

67. Check out SEIU or some of the other unions. What the hell do you think they fight for.

And you want to tax the low wage earner. It isn't all about you. Goodbye.

[diane in sf]

101. not true, they may just be getting by and one more drop in income can do them in.

[Regret My New Name]

128. hah! So someone making $10/hr and has health insurance is considered comfortably employed?

Hell, I had a job that paid $8.50(or something) and I had health insurance then... Was I comfortably employed?

[Dr Fate]

38. Baucus can collect the money from "comfortably employed" Health industry CEOs...

...and other assorted billionares & millionares.

Then again, I guess that would stop all those sweet campaign bribes he counts on.

This sounds like yet another tax on the shrinking middle class to me.

[Demobrat]

43. Sounds to me like

I may be able to stop worrying about losing my health coverage when my company finally tanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm no more thrilled about being taxed on my health care benefits than you are. Who would be? But if the tradeoff is universal health care for everybody - including me if/when I lose my job - I'm in.

[kikiek]

44. Yeah the woman making 12 dollars an hour sure can afford it. How dense an idea.

[Demobrat]

56. And when she's making zero?

And gets breast cancer? And the first question she's asked when she tries to get a doctor's appointment is "What kind of insurance do you have?" And when she says none the doctor suddenly isn't taking new patients? Do you have any idea what that's like? Of course you don't - you have insurance. Lucky you.

[kikiek]

65. You lack reasoning and refuse to see it from any other side. Everyone is losing their

job in your world. That isn't going to happen.

[Demobrat]

66. Yes that's true. People in my world are losing their jobs left and right.

Not sure what world you live in. But I am sure it's very nice there.

[AllentownJake]

69. You can try to shame us all you want to

I will promise you this. They do this

In 2012 when they call me to volunteer again, I'll remind them of this bill and I will inform them that I will not even be voting for the President.

On Election day, I will vote third party or write in for every single race, and I will encourage everyone I know to the same.

Because this was a big promise, and if he breaks this big promise. Fuck him. The party needs to be taught a lesson.

We will have 60 senators when this bill is voted on. If with 60 democratic Senators the President can't pass his bill he campaigned on. Fuck him and Fuck the party, they are inept and useless. Bush passed his tax-cuts with 49 republicans.

[kikiek]

70. I'm with ya. Not an option.

[Demobrat]

75. Remember that when you're unemployed, broke and sick

and can't get a doctor's appointment.

[Demobrat]

72. Fuck him, fuck the party and fuck everybody without heath care.

Okay, got it.

[AllentownJake]

76. Well in 2012 your sitting election night crying and saying why

You can blame us, but in reality, you should blame this party, for being unable to pass their agenda, when they have 60 fucking Senators and the Oval Office.

If the party is that inept. I'm not wasting my time or my vote on them.

[Demobrat]

78. Well why should you?

You're all set.

[AllentownJake]

80. People like you are a disapointment

and the reason the party does this shit.

[Demobrat]

82. People like you are the reason we'll never have health care for everybody.

You're all for it - as long as somebody else pays for it.

[AllentownJake]

85. If we did Single Payer

I'd pay for it fucking happily. Tax me another 10% for all I care.

I refuse to be taxed have my taxes than spent to give some other poor soul mediocre/poor coverage through an insurance company and call it fucking progress. Fuck that and fuck the President if he thinks he can sell me that shit.

Not when we have 60 fucking Senators.

[Demobrat]

94. Sure, better for the other poor soul to have nothing.

Heck, he's probably got nothing now so he's used to it.

[AllentownJake]

95. I'm ending this conversation with one statement

You are an enabler of the status quo. If after the work people did, to elect 60 democratic Senators we can do no better than this, the party is lost.

The fact that you are so ready to accept this bullshit people like Baucus is feeding you is part of the problem.

Keep me accountable to my promises he said. I will, you won't therefore you are enabling his eventual electoral defeat.

[Demobrat]

96. Whatever.

Go third party, go Republican, go hide under a rock. Just don't leave PA. You might need health care some day.

[Mojorabbit]

93. And she will see the doctor

and the insurance company will probably deny her the care she needs. Will she have a high deductible she can't afford? Will she still be able to make payments on the premiums even with subsidies. The whole idea sucks.

[Dr Fate]

104. So you would rather tax the middle class than the people who caused this mess?

Namely the top 1%?

Why?

[digidigido]

61. when you assume, you make an ass of you and me

What remains of the middle class that works 60 hours a week to get decent health care coverage all
of a sudden finds he just got a tax increase and the health care he's killing himself for will either
be worthless, or cost him a shit load. Sorry, health care for the unemployed should not come on the
back of the middle class, what little there is of it left

[Demobrat]

68. Yeah, FUCK those poor people.

If they weren't so lazy they'd be middle class too.

[AllentownJake]

73. Giving the poor health benefits by making the middle class poor

Is not change I can believe in. It is the end of the class warfare battle with the rich having fully won.

[kikiek]

79. Forget it. It's like hitting a brick wall. Nonsensical arguments.

[AllentownJake]

83. God, I hate the worshipers

I hated them during the 8 months I campaigned for the son of a bitch and I hate them more now. They fucking enable shit like this.

There were those of us who prayed he was who he said he was but were secretly scared he'd be another Clinton, and there were those who took it on blind faith, and are unquestioning to anything he does or says. Assume everything is a Genius master stroke.

[kikiek]

87. This apparent need to be "liked" by everyone is worrisome.

[AllentownJake]

88. That and the ability to throw people who supported you under the bus to be liked by

people who never liked you, and never will.

[kikiek]

89. Exactly....

[QC]

119. Bill Clinton was bad about that, and I think we are in for a rerun of it.

Remember how Clinton used to kick his friends in the ass in hopes that he might finally make the Republicans love him?

It was better to be Clinton's enemy than his friend.

[dgibby]

114. I think his/her screen name says it all, don't you?

[kikiek]

165. You're right. Like a kid plugging their ears and doing the "lah lah lah" stuff.

[ChiciB1]

63. You & ME BOTH!!! I'm sitting Here Thinking Of One Couple In Particular...

Took two of us about an hour to convince her that McCain was going to TAX health care... OBAMA WAS NOT!!

Every SINGLE DAY, Every SINGLE DAY... it just seems ANOTHER campaign promise.... BROKEN!!!!

This is getting to be a NIGHTMARE! Is this the SAME person I campaigned for?? I KNOW there will be those here who will FIND A WAY to support this, but right now, I can't imagine how!

Granted, I could be wrong, but when people ask me to "give him more time" I'm to the point where I want to say "for what?" To break ANOTHER promise? And have many tell me WHY I have my head in the sand?? Too, too many issues are coming forth that WEREN'T supposed to BE this way!!!

While at first I was willing to "wait and see" now I don't think I want to SEE anything else! I feel like I'm living in some "alter world" that makes me feel like a FOOL! This is a very Ruby Red county... I busted my butt, and Obama wasn't even my first choice!

And BEFORE anyone says it... yes perhaps better than McCain, but just remember this... WE KNEW WHAT McCAIN was going to do! We voted against it!! Now it seems we voted FOR IT and many other things we DIDN'T want to happen! Obama has been losing me day by day for quite some time now, PLEASE someone tell me how do I take ALL THESE Changes On Issues and square them now??? Too many are piling up and I just want to run and hide! I NEVER would have believed half of this that has been going on!

It's one of those BEAM ME UP SCOTTY things now!!!

[AllentownJake]

77. First Clue was Rick Warren at the Innaguration

[lumberjack_jeff]

151. This trial balloon is being floated because it's one of the few remaining ways...

to raise revenue without asking for more from the rich.

[INdemo]

45. And to think I voted for this idiot...

This guy is no better than Bush..This guy is not a Democrat..

[Thrill]

74. OH please. This is Baucus. Trying to push his agenda

.

[earcandle]

46. Hey, remember, it was by saving money on insurance industries that we could have enough to

make sure everyone has healthcare, right?

(BTW, what does it mean to "be transparent" when
someone at DU says it in a post? 

[earcandle]

48. This is one of many possibilities. We know the best one is HR 676. Lets grab it while we can.

[Upfront]

51. One Term President

He will not see another term if he lets it happen.

[Ms. Toad]

54. I actually don't mind that this is on the table - I just wish

that single payer was also on the table.

If it helps make health care affordable for those who can't afford it (or whose coverage is priced beyond what anyone who is reasonably well off because of pre-existing conditions) I'm willing to be taxed on it. To be acceptable to me, though, it would need to be structured like earned income tax credit combined with alternative minimum tax - i.e. a surcharge for those above a certain income level and cash out the door (or paid to the government provider) for those who make below a certain income level.

[ProgressIn2008]

62. Why is this balloon even being floated? Criminal. We could have UHC for what we spend on bombs. nt

[Thrill]

71. Read this article. It sounds more like Baucus is trying to push this. Not Obama

WASHINGTON (AP) — A key Senate chairman says he hopes to convince President Barack Obama that taxing some employer-provided health benefits will help control escalating health care costs.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, faces a hard sell. During his campaign for president, Obama ruled out taxing health benefits provided by employers.

Baucus says the tax-free benefit packages Americans now enjoy are a big factor in the high costs of the country's health care system, because they provide workers free or low-cost access to too many health care services.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gap9wCaolRYguYQesA2i2Yr98yLgD98IKAE00

[Cha]

100. It's a fuckin' AP article and look

how many suckers they got.

[StevieM]

84. Oh well...I only voted for him to get judges like Sotomayor. At least he has gotten that part right.

eom

[jgraz]

125. Are you sure you know what you're getting in Sotomayor?

So far, she's just another cryptic centrist like all Democratic judicial nominees.

[AlexanderProgressive]

86. This is hearsay

I will put weight on this report if I get confirmation from Obama himself.

[Juan Liberale]

90. Lefties left behind?

When you compare Obama to the garbage that he replaced, he seems to be a brilliant breath of fresh air.

However, when you look at a laundry list of those things most important to liberals, Obama begins to look like Bush Lite.

Health care.
Ending the wars.
Prosecuting war crimes.
Enabling fair union recruiting.
Controlling the banksters and their obscene paychecks.
Creating jobs for working folks.

[Dr Fate]

112. No- the middle class as whole. n/t

n/t

[bobshin]

91. Include FICA tax in those making over $90grand. Simple, painless

Plenty.

[960]

130. FICA cap is up to over $106,000 already for 2009!

[and-justice-for-all]

92. "open to taxing health benefits"...uh, fuck a lot of that...

Why they are making this harder then it is, really is beyond me.

EXPAND MEDICARE! and take a little more out of my check every week for federal...DUH! Then, tell companies that they will no longer have to provide ANY health care to their employees and PRESTO!! problem solved.

If cooperate ponzi scheme fucks can have golden parachutes, they we sure as hell should have national health care!

[Better Believe It]

102. Flip Flop

[OhioChick]

106. Been hearing a lot of those, lately. n/t

[ohio2007]

105. "given to employees like wages and taxed".... So it's " A PAYROLL TAX " ?

Nothing about "getting a raise" to pay for it.

It sounds like a pay cut

snip
The president adamantly opposed health benefit taxes ........ But he's now indicating openness to that suggestion from Congress,...

Thanks congress, bail out your biggest campaign contributers and bend over the tax payer.

Maybe the rethugs will be against it...seeing how Barack is for it???

No?

But its about increasing taxes !

[Cant trust em]

109. Before we get all up in arms, let's see if this actually flies.

Let's not forget that Obama is about the most nuanced guy we've ever seen in the White House and will listen to everyone before he makes his decision. If they actively support this then we can rail against it like the terrible idea that it is. Until that time, let's not jump the gun.

[Better Believe It]

147. Ya. Let's wait until it flies. Let it get off the ground!

[Cant trust em]

158. Let me rephrase. Let's see if this is actually something they're are looking into

or if this is just something that they are nodding along with.

[TommyO]

111. I'm very disappointed in you taking any stock in what Baucus says

[farmboxer]

113. Baucus wants what's best for the insurance companies and

drug companies. He sure appears to be getting a lot of money from them. America is a plutocracy, so what can we expect? "We have the best congress money can buy." - Will Rogers

[Juan Liberale]

115. No health insurance

I've not had any health insurance for 30 years, since I started my own company.

I told my wife that if I have a heart attack, don't call 911 because I'd rather die than to leave her bankrupt.

She said OK. Now THAT is fucked up.

[QC]

118. Don't worry--it's some kind of highly complex double jujitsu extra mojo Spock strategy

far too complex for mere mortals to comprehend.

[ProgressIn2008]

126. Exactly, LOL. And yet, not-LOL. Sigh. OTOH, if the WH disagrees with Baucus, the admin will say

so, I'm sure. And speak up loudly for what's just. I'm sure.

[lumberjack_jeff]

152. Chess, baby... chess. n/t

[QC]

155. Multidimensional chess played forty-eight moves in advance, baby.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0lTtPVTG40/SXUe78pcKdI/AAAAAAAAnEc/TGLVLQpStYI/s400/spock+chess.jpg

[brentspeak]

120. So taxing health benefits is now on the table, but single-payer isn't

Obama must be deciding early on that he doesn't wish to serve a second term.

[PaulJosephPoposky]

135. So who exactly was it decided single payer was "off the table"?

[berni_mccoy]

122. I smell B.S.

[Initech]

124. So let me get this straight: prosecution of Bush and Cheney bad, taxing health benefits good.

What year is this? Am I living in bizarro world? :mad: :grr: :banghead:

[nevergiveup]

129. stop panicking

There will obviously be some give and take but doubt Obama would go this far. Of course it is an option but this really doesn't mean crap. This is typical of Obama's manipulation game. Just because Baucus came away happy doesn't mean he is going to get everything he wants.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

131. NOT helpful if true

:grr:

[HDPaulG]

132. Taxing Health Benefit's...

You do this Mr. President...Enjoy going back to educating Attorneys 'to be' about the Constituition...Us Teamster's who got you elected...Won't get fu*ked again by your empty promise's about health care. But then again, you are a multi-millionaire now and you and your family now have health benefits for life sponsored by a single payer...and security...and a pension. While you work very hard at your job/elected position think of us!!! Single payer is good for you and Michelle and your children..What do we have to do to get the same benefits? Run for government office? Or move to Canada or another single payer Sovereign Nation....

PS: You were making calls from a UAW hall on election night...Tax benefit's?...

If not for working class...

[blurp]

133. Health care benefits are income

Either make benefits taxable, or give everyone another tax break to offset their own private health care spending.

Anything else is unfair.

[Downwinder]

134. If this is true,which I don't believe. How would it work?

Would you include premiums as ordinary income? Would you include benefits received as ordinary income, like gambling winnings? How would you handle manufacturer's prescription assistance programs? Would you have to pay tax on charity programs?

I don't think it is workable.

[jumptheshadow]

160. The model used now for gay partners...

is that the government considers anything the company pays towards health care for me as extra income.

[villager]

136. What!? Obama reversing a position he campaigned on!!?

n/t

[w4rma]

137. Baucus is a corrupt weasel. (nt)

[ProfessorGAC]

138. Unwise

I think this is the most worker unfriendly idea they could possibly propose. I hope they drop this idea like the cold rock it is.
GAC

[maryf]

139. So sad I'm not surprised...K&R nt.

[natrat]

141. wow looks like 95% of politicians really are pieces of shit

[Vinca]

142. I've always wondered why health benefits aren't taxed.

A person buying private insurance is buying it with money that has been taxed. If an employer is providing something that would cost $10,000 to a private buyer, why shouldn't it be taxed? I think there are other ways of getting money for health reform, but this is something to consider. I doubt it will ever come to pass and find it puzzling Obama gets so much grief for considering all options.

[Downwinder]

149. Should people pay tax on services they receive from the

Red Cross after a hurricane? Your hose burns down, should you pay tax on the fire insurance award?

[Vinca]

154. No offense, but that doesn't make sense.

You buy your house insurance with money that has been previously taxed. I don't know if people end up paying taxes on anything after a disaster. I know that on that home makeover show that builds new houses for needy people, the people get stuck with a tax bill based on the value of the house.

[atreides1]

157. He's getting grief

Because he constantly slammed McCain for supporting the same thing he's now considering.

So, the question is was he serious during the campaign or was he just trying to get votes by telling people what they wanted to hear?

It's been said that some employer's will stop providing health insurance because of the extra cost it would put on them, if this was done then we'd still have the problem of more people without insurance.

[marshall]

167. You have to take campaign promises with a grain of salt

Remember that and you will be disappointed less often.

The money's got to come from somewhere.

[FiveGoodMen]

168. "The money's got to come from somewhere"

The money should come from income taxes.

That's the one and only time when a person's ability to pay is factored in.

[No Elephants]

143. As long as the tax is mostly on those who can really afford it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

150. They why not simply raise the top tax rate?

Lift the Social Security cap? Drop the preferential rate given to unearned income?

The reason for this idea is precisely because they DON'T want to raise taxes on those who can really afford it.

Jesus. Look around.

[RufusH]

153. Sounds fair... DOMESTIC PARTNER BENEFITS are already TAXED.

I pay almost $3,000 a year in additional taxes on the imputed income of my employer's provided health benefits (on top of the normal deduction a straight person pays). If I was straight and covering my spouse, instead of gay and covering my partner, I would NOT be paying any of that additional tax.

It's not fair now, so what's the difference? At least if we tax EVERYONE'S health care benefits, then it's less UNFAIR to gay employees who've been taxed more than straight employees for YEARS.

Here's a compromise. We only tax the health benefit for the SPOUSES and other dependents of employees. That way it's exactly like the way gay employees are treated.

[mvd]

159. This wouldn't be a viable way to go forward, unless you mandate..

that businesses provide health care, and then you would get lower quality due to extra costs and employers might cut back on hiring. I've also never agreed with getting the insurance companies more involved by mandating coverage without single payer.

I found a couple encouraging things:

"The president made it clear during the campaign that he has serious concerns about taxing health care benefits," White House spokesman Reid Cherlin said in a statement about Tuesday's meeting.

"He stated again his belief that health reform can't wait another year, and that while all options should be considered, those options should include the revenue proposals that he included in his budget," Cherlin said. "He made it very clear that he prefers the approach he has already outlined."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31062270/

[mzmolly]

161. I don't believe it.

"He made it very clear that he prefers the approach he has already outlined."

[EndElectoral]

162. That would pretty much be the end of the Obama presidency if he did this

[dugaresa]

163. You know I pay enough already per month, to tax it seems even more cruel

I have a high deductible and 80/20 insurance until I hit a high out of pocket value and they want to tax me too because my employer may pay a bit towards this nonsense? Bullshit.

[FiveGoodMen]

164. Yeah, because the problem right now is that the premiums don't cost enough!

I SO wish I could have voted for someone else!

[Old Coot]

166. I wanted to vote for Edwards BECAUSE of health care. nt

[Old Coot]

169. Obama Open to Plan Requiring Everyone to Get Insurance (New News Item)

New York Times

WASHINGTON — President Obama said Wednesday that he was receptive to Congressional proposals that would require every American to have health insurance and that would force employers to offer health insurance to their employees. But he said there should be exemptions for people who cannot afford coverage and for small businesses in general.

Mr. Obama set forth his views in a letter to the chairmen of the two Senate committees writing health legislation, Max Baucus of Montana and Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, both Democrats.

He did not use the terms “individual mandate” or “employer mandate,” which suggest a degree of coercion that Democrats try to avoid. Still, the letter is the first time that Mr. Obama, as president, has opened the door to an individual mandate or amplified his views on health care overhaul.

<snip>

He added, “If we do end up with a system where people are responsible for their own insurance, we need to provide a hardship waiver to exempt Americans who cannot afford it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/health/policy/04health.html?hp