Vargas Llosa told to hold tongue in Venezuela

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Associated Press

CARACAS, Venezuela -- Peruvian author Mario Vargas Llosa vowed Wednesday to speak his mind at a pro-democracy forum in Venezuela despite an official warning not to criticize President Hugo Chavez's government.

Vargas Llosa was stopped by authorities for more than an hour at Caracas' main airport, and said he was questioned and told "that as a foreigner I don't have the right to make political statements."

"Nobody can put limits on free thinking," Vargas Llosa told journalists at Simon Bolivar International Airport, pledging to speak freely at a forum organized by Cedice, a conservative Caracas-based think tank that has come under criticism from Chavez allies.

"Antidemocratic systems proceed that way. The truth is, they are scared of ideas," Vargas Llosa later said of his brief detention at the airport. "They think ideas are like bombs, that ideas can provoke social explosions. We don't want that."

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/1068947.html

[Captain Hilts]

1. Good for him! nt

[proteus_lives]

2. Good!

Let him speak!

[cali]

3. yum.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[WriteDown]

4. You've got 3 bags...

Can I have one?

[cali]

5. dig in.

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Look for Chavez apologists to gloss over a couple of things

like Chavez coming the US for the specific purpose of providing critique.

Guess this is going to come down to one of those pesky old "mistranslations" that only seem to
beset Venezuelans and Iranians.

[WriteDown]

7. Looks like the apologists are too scared to address

this one.

[David__77]

11. Lol...

"Apologist."

Anyway, I think this is entirely appropriate.

[nomorenomore08]

13. Would you think differently if it was reversed - i.e. a lefty intellectual being "warned"

by a conservative government? I'm neither a Chavez fan nor a Chavez-hater, I just think that any restriction on political speech and/or organizing is inimical to human freedom. And defending that restriction in this case is arguably hypocritical.

[SkyDaddy7]

20. You are exactly right!

There are tons of people on DU that jump down Obama's throat for almost every decision he makes yet they defend Chavez regardless...Have not figured that one out yet.

[EFerrari]

53. You may not know this but there was recently a terrorist cell broken up

in Bolivia. Their plan was to assassinate the president, a vice president and to take over a region in Bolivia.

The investigation is showing the the front group Human Rights Foundation was one of the funders of this cell. Llosa is on their board.

He's not just another guy.

If the situation were reversed and he tried to come here, Homeland Security would have decked him and cuffed him in a heartbeat.

[Judi Lynn]

54. Good point. Seeing he's a member of that vicious group should inform ANYONE with even partial

consciousness. Another of their group, Hugo Acha, fled from Bolivia, and is hiding out here to avoid being arrested by the Bolivian police.

Slimy mothers!

[Better Believe It]

90. So do you think Cheney should also trot off to Venezuela to babble about democraacy??

[EFerrari]

44. WTF are you talking about? This right wing nutcase met with his peers

-- including a number of right wing Venezuelan politicians who supposedly fear for their lives -- in a big fancy hotel and threw back some cocktails while they denounced Chavez for days.

LOL!

[T Wolf]

8. As in the US - "citizens" have different rights than non-citizens. We ban some individuals from

even entering this country - at least he was allowed in.

Also - a "pro-democracy" forum organized by a conservative think tank. Not exactly the freedom-loving group that should get respect from those here on DU.

When we have our shit together in terms of freedom, etc. - then we can criticize other countries and how they handle subversive elements.

[WriteDown]

9. You're kidding right...

Let's just close DU now then since we have no right to criticize anyone.

[T Wolf]

14. In case you haven't noticed - there are restrictions on what can be said in this "free" forum.

As another said - the writer is free to say his piece in his own country, but he does not have the right (under Venezuelan law) to do so in their country.

[WriteDown]

15. You've turned me....

Next time there is an assembly on illegal immigration and people are out there waving Mexican flags we need to get tons of police to just start verifying citizenship on the spot. If they can't prove it, they get on the bus for deportation. Afterall, they don't have the right to assemble here if they are not citizens. We also should probably limit land ownership to citizens as well. :eyes:

[AlphaCentauri]

17. illegal immigrants pay taxes, Vargas Llosa doesn't pay Venezuelan taxes

when was the last time communist from other countries had a forum in US soil, to talk about their agenda in the US?

[WriteDown]

18. I'm sure Vargas Llosa will but a bag of chips or

soda while he's there, thus meeting your requirements to be able to speak.

[AlphaCentauri]

19. Sure he will spend his precious US dollars to maintain the "devil" in power

and with all his republican miami friends

[SkyDaddy7]

21. Anytime they want...I think the Nazis did...

back before WW2. We don't restrict non citizen Muslims from talking bad about America in America, at their Mosque. Chavez thinks he is king and he will eventually have such power if he does not already.

[AlphaCentauri]

23. Sorry but Vargas Llosa is not going to talk bad about Venezuela

his mission is to get volunteers to remove Chavez from power, have you seen muslims planning a coup against Obama?

[hack89]

25. I agree that there are no such thing as universal human rights

the idea that pro-democracy agitators can spread their insidious ideas anywhere is alarming. Any country should be alarm about the free expression of ideas - it is dangerous.

[AlphaCentauri]

31. Spreading corporate democracy at the point of a gun

must be alarming for many countries, specially for those who have working democracies.

[hack89]

33. Of course - once the right labels are applied any action is justified.

I missed where Mario Vargas Llosa advocated violence.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. Great -so long as you admit that our laws provide more freedom than theirs

Which appears to be the case. Thanks.

[northzax]

77. Different kettle of fish

You may have noticed that the restrictions on this board are placed there by the owners of this private establishment, not the government.

[DatManFromNawlins]

91. This forum isn't "free"

It is privately owned.

[damntexdem]

12. Let's criticize what our country does -- but not hesitate to criticize others.

To do the latter without the former would be hypocrisy; but there's no need to refrain from the latter.

Critics SHOULD be allowed to speak out. If they advocate violence, that is different -- and much of the opposition in Venezuela does so. But that does not mean that Llosa will do so.

[northzax]

78. Really?

Can you name one person 'banned' from the US for political speech?

[struggle4progress]

93. Yep. It happens all the time. Here are two recent threads

Flight Carrying Journalist on US No-Fly List Diverted
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=405&topic_id=14497

Case delayed for South African denied US visa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3895756

In one case, the guy is on the no-fly list simply because he opposes the Cuba embargo: the US required a French flight carrying him to avoid US airspace. In the other case, the guy was denied entry to the US because he opposed the Iraq war

The US press usually doesn't cover stuff like this

[David__77]

10. He can "think" all he wants. But he has no right to organize politically in a foreign country.

His right to do so is in Peru, the country in which he is a citizen, or in any other country that welcomes him for this purpose. There is full freedom for the citizens of Venezuela to politically organize.

[cali]

16. speaking politically is not de facto political organizing

I gather you wholeheartdly support the U.S. keeping out people who's political pov the gov't takes exception to.

[David__77]

29. Venezuela let him in, didn't keep him out.

I don't see the value in this conjecture, since this isn't even what happened in Venezuela.

[Arctic Dave]

35. The US does keep people out that they find questionable.

Yusof Islam comes to mind. Otherwise known as Cat Stevens.

[bemildred]

36. The US keeps anybody it wants to out, and it tells them to shutup, too.

They will incarcerate you and deport your ass in a minute.

[northzax]

79. Funny, seems like Yusuf Islam played a show in LA this month

And he was on the no fly list, formally requested he be removed, as everyoe can, and he was removed and subsequently allowed in. Under the Bush administration, no less. So what's your point?

[AngryAmish]

87. Do you think Rachel Corrie would have agreed with you?

[IndianaGreen]

22. Americans get bent out of shape when a foreign visitor speaks ill of our country and government

For those of you that don't know Vargas Llosa, he is the Peruvian version of David Horowitz, a former Leftist radical that turns into a Rightwing radical.

Background story here:

http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2009/05/28/novelist-vargas-llosa-stirs-up-left-and-right-in-latin-america/

In the American political spectrum, Vargas Llosa would be considered a Freeper.

[hack89]

26. But government goons don't threaten them in America - upset is ok. nt

[heliarc]

28. Oh, yeah... the INS are gentlemen wearing white gloves.

I guess you never lived in Miami, where government goons are every bit participants in the suppression of free speech. Preventing music groups from performing, and supporting paramilitary groups in the everglades like Alpha 66...

I suppose our other brand of speech suppression is the kind where the FBI infiltrates groups intending to peacefully demonstrate and then incites riot to force arrests.

I take issue with the assumption that there aren't government goons acting against our democratic rights here in the states.

[hack89]

30. Ok - it is wrong to do it here. Is it also wrong to do it in Venezuela? nt

[heliarc]

38. Wrong to do it anywhere...

but every government does it.

[EFerrari]

47. Did you watch the arrests of demonstrators before the RNC convention?

And "demonstrators" is putting it generously since some of those people were arrested in their homes "pre-emptively".

[struggle4progress]

24. This is a very carefully orchestrated confrontration, as we see by following the opposition press

Let's summarize first. There have been several weeks of noise in the opposition press, claiming Venezuela would expel Vargas Llosa, when he came to a "free market" conference there, organized by the Cato Institute in DC. The Venezuelan government repeatedly denied the allegations, but in a familiar way, the media has continued to make the claims. As far as I can tell, there is really not much here. To obtain a balanced view, we may want to remember how the last US administration handled its critics

Monday May 18, 2009 | Update
Chávez's party supports kicking out foreigners who "discredit" institutions
A party spokesman said that Medina said that this month authors Álvaro Vargas Llosa, Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza and Mario Vargas Llosa will visit Venezuela to provoke "a scandal"
Several foreign intellectuals who are scheduled to visit Venezuela soon will launch a smear campaign against the government ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/18/en_pol_art_chavezs-party-suppo_18A2334483.shtml

Before continuing, one should remark that Álvaro Vargas Llosa is the son of Mario Vargas Llosa, and one should note Álvaro's right wing credentials:

Alvaro Vargas Llosa is a Senior Fellow of The Center on Global Prosperity at the Independent Institute ... http://www.independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=494

Álvaro Vargas Llosa is also associated with Thor Halvorssen's so-called "Human Rights Foundation" http://www.humanrightsfoundation.org/internationalcouncil.html#allosa

And what is this Independent Institute? It is a libertarian "think tank" that has been funded by Exxon and Microsoft, with strong ties to the tobacco industry: it alternately pushes anti-global-warming theories or libertarian "solutions" to global warming See: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Independent_Institute

Despite its high-sounding name, and its alleged mission of "protecting human rights in the Americas," the essential focus of "Human Rights Foundation" is Venezuela: HRF largely ignores the constant murders in neighboring Colombia, for example

Tuesday May 19, 2009
Mario Vargas Llosa hopes not to be expelled from Venezuela
Along with the author of "Conversation in the Cathedral" and "The Green House," the forum will be attended by his son Álvaro Vargas Llosa, Colombian writer Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza and Mexican essayist Enrique Krauze. All of them are strong critics of President Hugo Chávez
http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/19/en_pol_esp_mario-vargas-llosa-h_19A2335923.shtml

Thursday May 21, 2009 | Update
Chávez's party denies having requested Vargas Llosa's eviction
Vanessa Davies, the coordinator of media and propaganda, United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), denied on Thursday that the pro-government political party had requested to declare Peruvian writer Mario Vargas Llosa persona non grata ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/21/en_pol_esp_chavezs-party-denie_21A2340405.shtml

Media outlets want to make believe that Vargas Llosa will be expelled from the country
Submitted by Business Desk on May 22, 2009 - 17:00
The Coordinator of Mass Media and Advertising of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), Vanessa Davies, denounced a campaign deployed by private media outlets “trying to make believe that the entrance to the country will be denied to the right-wing writer and intellectual Mario Vargas Llosa.” “The communications team of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela has never said that it will be denied the entrance to the country to the right-wing writer Mario Vargas Llosa or that he will be expelled from the country. We just ask for respect, because insulting the President (of the Republic, Hugo) Chavez is insulting Venezuelan people,” Davies said ... http://www.webnewswire.com/node/454820

Wednesday May 27, 2009 | Update
Álvaro Vargas Llosa: Freedom in the hemisphere is "at stake" in Venezuela
The Venezuelan people have fought a heroic battle (...), although this is not Cuba yet,” the son of writer Mario Vargas Llosa said
... Álvaro Vargas Llosa sent a message of "optimism" to the Venezuelan opposition ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/27/en_pol_esp_alvaro-vargas-llosa:_27A2350523.shtml

Wednesday May 27, 2009 | Update
Venezuelan Culture Minister calls Mario Vargas Llosa insolent and disrespectful
In an interview, the official claimed that Vargas Llosa has lost his intelligence for “speaking disrespectfully about a country” and about “the icons of the people”
Venezuelan Minister of Culture, Héctor Soto, on Wednesday described as "insolent" and "disrespectful" the Peruvian writher Mario Vargas Llosa, who once again criticized the Venezuelan government, ahead of his visit to Caracas to attend a forum on economic freedom and democracy ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/27/en_pol_art_venezuelan-culture-m_27A2350703.shtml

Wednesday May 27, 2009 | Update
Mario Vargas Llosa is warned against making political comments
On leaving the airport, the Peruvian writer told reporters that a customs officer “warned me with good manners that I, as a foreigner, had no right to make political statements” in Venezuela
... "They checked my whole luggage and made sure that I am not smuggling anything in; no explosive or subversive materials, except for some poetry books" ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/27/en_pol_esp_mario-vargas-llosa-i_27A2351045.shtml

Mario Vargas Llosa briefly arrested in Venezuela
... he agents withheld his passport and they took him to a special room to question him as they did on Monday with his son, Álvaro, said the Economic Knowledge Disclosure Center (CEDICE) forum's spokeswoman Rocío Guijarro ... http://www.buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/2206

Wednesday May 27, 2009
Mario Vargas Llosa is detained at Venezuelan airport
The writer landed approximately at 1:30 p.m. On passing through Immigration, the authorities requested and withheld his passport
Peruvian author Mario Vargas Llosa was detained on Wednesday at the Maiquetía international airport upon arriving in Venezuela to take part in a forum hosted by NGO Center for Dissemination of Economic Knowledge (Cedice), scheduled for Thursday and Friday in Caracas ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/27/en_pol_esp_mario-vargas-llosa-i_27A2350603.shtml

CEDICE is another libertarian "free market" organization see: http://www.wiserearth.org/organization/view/168cd7b5f49eb1cf0bebbccd34947850

The event in question is a joint project of CEDICE and the rightwing Cato Institute:

Chavez Tries to Shut Down Pro-Free Market Educational Conference
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/05/27/chavez-tries-to-shut-down-pro-free-market-educational-conference/

Thursday May 28, 2009
Mario Vargas Llosa: Venezuela is on its way to become a second Cuba
“Only two countries in the world keep the fiction of the socialist utopia –North Korea and Cuba,” said the writer
Venezuela is to become a second Cuba, said Peruvian author Mario Vargas Llosa during his presentation on Thursday in the forum The Latin America Challenge, hosted by think tank Center for Dissemination of Economic Knowledge (Cedice) ... http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/05/28/en_pol_esp_mario-vargas-llosa:_28A2352507.shtml

To obtain a balanced view, we may want to remember how the last US administration handled its critics: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5733508&mesg_id=5734258

[bemildred]

32. I'm mostly amused that they continue to want to spend money on this sort of thing.

Sort of reminds me of the "Who is John Galt" people.

[AlphaCentauri]

34. The no fly list and the CATO institute giving half million prices

Evo Morales and Ted Kennedy in the no fly list ridiculous.
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/watchlistcounter.html

http://www.cato.org/special/friedman/goicoechea/index.html

[struggle4progress]

37. Thanks for those informative links. This caught my eye

http://www.cato.org.nyud.net:8090/special/friedman/goicoechea/index-test_clip_image007.jpg
Yon Goicoechea with the banner of the Student Movement. The white hand symbolizes purity and non-violence.
http://www.cato.org/special/friedman/goicoechea/index.html

It caught my eye because the icon is very old and has a well-established threat meaning: in black or white, it is probably intended to invoke a bloody handprint on the wall, left by killer or victim. White has been the popular color in the Americas in recent years. In both El Salvador and Guatemala, during the Reagan era, there were death squads named "Mano Blanco"

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu.nyud.net:8090/ransomedition/2008/fall/images/philanthropy_large.jpg
Susan Meiselas, "Mano Blanca," signature of the death squads left on the door of a slain peasant organizer, Arcatao, Chalatenango Province. Magnum Photos.
http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/ransomedition/2008/fall/philanthropy.html

Alejandro AGUILAR-REVELO, Petitioner,
v.
IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE, Respondent.
No. 88-7518.
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
Argued and Submitted April 16, 1990.
Decided Nov. 26, 1990.
... While in El Salvador, Aguilar-Revelo became fearful of both governmental and non-governmental forces. At one point, a white hand appeared on the door of his mother's house. This symbol was a known death threat and may have been directed at Aguilar-Revelo or his half-brother, who was a member of another anti-government group. Sometime after the white hand appeared, Aguilar-Revelo fled the country ... http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/919/919.F2d.144.36-3_6.html

Salvanet
September / October 1999
... I remember very clearly the last day that the Father Rafael was with us and with the team of catechists. He was very sad and worried. He didn’t say anything during the meeting, but afterwards, with two or three of us, he shared that his car had been marked with a white hand, an obvious death threat. He was up late at the Domus Mariae retreat house and he didn’t seem to want to leave. But he was very responsible and he couldn’t leave the community of Santa Tecla without a mass and so he left.
Our terrible surprise was that in the early hours of the next day he was assassinated ... http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:ZZMOn3v00zwJ:www.crispaz.org/news/snet/1999/0599.pdf+%22white+hand%22+%22death+threat%22&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Guatemala: Democracy and Human Rights
(June 1997)
... The other was the formation of death squads such as Mano Blanca (White Hand) in the cities, openly sponsored by MLN leader Mario Sandoval Alarcón, and widely believed to be covertly organized by the armed forces. Among the death squads’ primary targets were students and professors at the University of San Carlos, and labor lawyers and activists ... http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/ins/guatemala_demochumrts_97.html

Brazil: Police Harassment Of Transvestites, Death Threats Against Human Rights Defender
... On April 27, 2002, at 1.30 pm, the President of Grupo Habeas Corpus Potiguar (a non-governmental organization working with lesbians, gays, bisexual, transgender people, and sex workers), Jose Dantas, was interviewed by the TV program "Tropical Comunidade". An unidentified person phoned the station with a message for Mr. Dantas. He had better stop defending transvestites, it threatened: if not, "White Hand" might be back. "White Hand" was a death squad active in Natal, the capital of Rio Grande do Norte, some time ago. They targeted homosexuals, transvestites, Blacks and poor people ... http://www.iglhrc.org/cgi-bin/iowa/article/takeaction/globalactionalerts/658.html

[heliarc]

40. Excellent timeline. Required reading for the thread.

Thanks for providing these links. It helps to have a thorough body of knowledge when analyzing moments like this. At the surface the news story reads like a repressive action by Chavez's regime... when in reality it probably is a repressive action, but it is clearly the result of a provocation with intended PR consequences for the Venezuelan Govt.

[killbotfactory]

39. I have never regretted trusting the word of right wing free market radicals

I guess I will this time, too.

He certainly has no axe to grind.

[EFerrari]

43. LOL!

:rofl:

[IndianaGreen]

41. COSI: We denounce Mario Vargas Llosa's visit

Too lazy to translate this myself, so I used babelfish:

COSI: We denounce Mario Vargas Llosa's visit

The Committee of International Solidarity (COSI), repudiated today the visit of the “former writer and intellectual, who has transformed himself into a spokesman for the international ultra-rightwing.

Mr. Vargas Llosa and his son, Alvaro Vargas Llosa, became actors of the media circuses organized by the Globovisión company during their arrival to our country, in which they tried to discredit to the revolutionary government before international the public opinion denouncing supposed upsettings of the Venezuelan authorities.

During that spectacle, the supposed victims became victimarios, because that were really attacked they were the reporteriles teams of Venezuelan of Televisión (VTV) and Avila TV, that physical and verbal maltratos on the part of and the companions of Mario underwent Vargas Llosa.

The Mario Spanish Vargas Llosa, for offense of the Venezuelan town and the Latin American town, arrives at our country with the purpose of to attend Encuentro the International Freedom and Democracy, organized by Cedice, activity that under the false facade of an academic event, reunites to mercenary intellectuals of the Spanish-speaking right to cause a mediatic attack against the Bolivariana Revolution.

We consider that Mario Vargas Llosa- like its present colleagues in this Political Forum organized to defend the neoliberal thought is an agent of the Department of North American State, an enemy of the Latin American towns and a militant of the most recalcitrant and undemocratic right at international level. By such reason, repudiamos and we rejected its presence in our country.

It was Mario Vargas Llosa of the Mother country of Bolivar!

By the Committee of Solidarity the International



Yul Jabour Victor Hugo Morals

Secretary General President

http://www.pcv-venezuela.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4937&Itemid=1

Spanish text:

COSI: Rechaza visita de Mario Vargas Llosa

El Comité de Solidaridad Internacional (COSI), repudia la visita a nuestro país de Mario Vargas Llosa, otrora escritor e intelectual, hoy devenido en vocero de la ultra-derecha internacional.

El señor Vargas Llosa y su hijo, Álvaro Vargas Llosa, se convirtieron en actores de los circos mediáticos organizados por la empresa Globovisión durante su llegada a nuestro país, en los que intentaron desprestigiar al gobierno revolucionario ante la opinión pública internacional denunciando supuestos atropellos de las autoridades venezolanas.

Durante ese espectáculo, las supuestas víctimas se convirtieron en victimarios, pues quienes resultaron realmente agredidos fueron los equipos reporteriles de Venezolana de Televisión (VTV) y de Ávila TV, quienes sufrieron maltratos físicos y verbales por parte de las y los acompañantes de Mario Vargas Llosa.

El español Mario Vargas Llosa, para agravio del pueblo venezolano y del pueblo latinoamericano, llega a nuestro país con el fin de asistir al Encuentro Internacional Libertad y Democracia, organizado por Cedice, actividad que bajo la falsa fachada de un evento académico, reúne a intelectuales mercenarios de la derecha hispanoparlante para propiciar un ataque mediático en contra de la Revolución Bolivariana.

Consideramos que Mario Vargas Llosa- al igual que sus colegas presentes en este Foro Político organizado para defender el pensamiento neoliberal- es un agente del Departamento de Estado Norteamericano, un enemigo de los pueblos latinoamericanos y un militante de la derecha más recalcitrante y antidemocrática a nivel internacional. Por tal motivo, repudiamos y rechazamos su presencia en nuestro país.

¡Fuera Mario Vargas Llosa de la Patria de Bolívar!

Por el Comité de Solidaridad Internacional



Yul Jabour Víctor Hugo Morales

Secretario General Presidente

[EFerrari]

46. Llosa was on the board of one of Stanford's rip offs, I read last week

but I can't remember which one. He's a piece of work all right.

Oh -- he's also on the board of that fake humanitarian organization, The Human Rights Foundation, that was caught funding the terrorist cell notable for their plans to assassinate Evo Morales last month. A real humdinger!

[Jack Rabbit]

42. I'll do my Chávez defending another day

. . . like on a day when he's earned it. Today isn't that day.

I don't necessarily agree with Mario Vargas Llosa's politics, but I will defend his right to speak out. By the way, he is an excellent novelist and I particularly liked Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter.

As for Chávez, he has grown authoritarian and power hungry over the last several years. While I admire him for his work toward social justice and equality, his power grabs should be greeted with our rebuke. They were rebuked by the same Venezuelan voters who returned him to power, and I think the voters were right in both cases. Let Chávez continue his work as president, but the power should remain in the hands of the people to remove him when they are through with him. If they should come to think his actions do more harm than good, they should remove him from power.

It is also very important in a political structure that features a strong chief executive, such as ours or Venezuela's, that the president be limited in his time in office. Few are so wise that they can continue to hold such concentrated power over a long period of time without becoming corrupted and growing tyrannical.

If Hugo Chávez is the only person in Venezuela who can carry out this Bolivalian revolution, then the Bolivarian revolution will not long outlive him. The time is soon coming when both the Bolivarian revolution and Venezuela will be better if Chávez rests on his laurels and the revolution is led by another.

[EFerrari]

45. JR, the conference and the denounciations of Chavez and his government

went on for days. No one was impeded in any way.

I'd love to see what would happen if an organization dedicated to the overthrow of our government set up shop in one of D.C.'s finest hotels and held a conference. How do you think that would go? Do you think our president would have the right to object to being insulted?

[Jack Rabbit]

48. As long as they're just holding a conference, they could continue unimpeded

I'll get concerned if the government tries to get Rush Limbaugh off the air.

I also think there is a difference between our president objecting to the insults, either directly or through designated spokesmen, and sending authorities to the airport to tell the president's critic what he can and can't say. That is a threat.

[EFerrari]

50. I guess they could have just denied him entry like John Lennon.

[Jack Rabbit]

51. I am delighted that el señor Vargas spoke

Nevertheless, I am not so happy with the threat at the airport.

The fact that the US once denied entry to John Lennon was an even worse display of authoritarianism. It makes the police threatening el señor Vargas right how?

[EFerrari]

52. Considering that Llosa is connected with the group that funded

the last assassination attempt on Evo Morales, the so called Human Rights Foundation, I am not in the least surprised he was questioned at the airport. This man is not simply a dissenter. Any sane government would track him. Let alone a government that was nearly overthrown by the interests he is intimately connected with.

I don't know what else to say, really. To my mind, that the conference happened is proof enough of the atmosphere in Venezuela.

[northzax]

80. Happens every day

What do you think Cato and Heritage, for instance, do all day?

[EFerrari]

83. No, it doesn't happen here every day. Cato goes to VENEZUELA

to do that. Venezuela or other countries don't have prominent think tanks that set up in big hotels in Washington DC to much media fanfare and call out Obama at the national level, advocating for his ouster and a restructuring of our government. Can you imagine what would happen if the Iranian equivalent of Cato tried to do something like that? They'd never make it t US soil.

[northzax]

85. Well of course they wouldn't get to the us

Iranians can't travel here, and vice versa.

[EFerrari]

88. And yet this Cato funded instigator with known terrorist ties,

let alone ties to the US which has been implicated in several destabilization attempts in Venezuea, does travel there and is allowed to spew for days among the right wing elites. Cool.

[northzax]

89. um, the reason that Iranians can't travel to the US

if because it's forbidden by...wait for it...IRAN. or isn't that part convenient for you?

[EFerrari]

92. You can't be that literal minded. Can you?

[Billy Burnett]

82. AIPAC? eom

[booley]

49. This "apologist" has no problem with this

Apologist apparently being anyone who doesn't automatically call Chavez a dictator even though he isn't.

Lots of governments "warn" foreigners not to criticize them. Even so called Free nations like ours.

It's not good but it happens.

The test comes when Llosa does speak and what happens to him afterward. Even a right wing shill for a conservative think tank that wants to undermine the government ha s aright to speak.

IF Chavez goes too far it's up to the people of Venezuela to put him back in his place, not ours. And I trust they will.

[Zorro]

55. Chavez interrupts four-day TV talkathon

<snip>

...Chavez held broadcast talkathons lasting some six hours each on Thursday and Friday.

For Saturday, a debate had been scheduled between Chavez and conservative Peruvian author Mario Vargas Llosa, a novelist who ran for president in 1990.

But by late Friday Chavez was backtracking.

"I can help by moderating, but the debate is between intellectuals and I am simply a president, a soldier," he said. The dialogue should be with "revolutionary and socialist" thinkers, he said...

<snip>

More at: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090530/wl_afp/venezuelapoliticsmediachavez_20090530230603

Guess Hugo had second thoughts about debating someone who wasn't going to be intimidated or silenced.

[Judi Lynn]

56. You didn't see Obama debating Palin, nor did you see George Bush

debating John Edwards in the previous campaign, did you?

Why should a country's President be expected to go toe-to-toe with an asshole like this scumball? Chavez would appropriately meet with another PRESIDENT, not some smarmy, slimy anal mouthpiece for the nastiest, most racist class of a-holes in the world.

He's not even FROM Venezuela. Wake up.

Whoever "scheduled" any earlier event wasn't using his/her head, or simply wasn't bright enough to know the proper way to go.

[Zorro]

57. It appears likely

that Chavez, attention whore that he is, probably had a hand in scheduling the debate as part of the celebration of his 10 year television show anniversary.

Your comment that the scheduler "simply wasn't bright enough to know the proper way to go" certainly seems an apt description of Hugo.

[IndianaGreen]

59. Ahhh, but you are basing your opinion on what the MSM reports

Try this one for size:

Latin America’s Pro-Capitalist Elite Hold Anti-Chávez Conference in Venezuela

May 29th 2009, by James Suggett – Venezuelanalysis.com

Mérida, May 29th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) -- Hundreds of right-wing political leaders and representatives of pro-capitalist think tanks from across the world gathered in Venezuela's luxurious Caracas Palace Hotel this week for an exclusive event titled "International Conference for Freedom and Democracy: The Latin American Challenge."

A major theme of the conference was how to put an end to the political changes been carried out by President Hugo Chávez and a wave of other progressive presidents who have been elected across the region over the past ten years.

Peruvian author and former Peruvian presidential candidate Mario Vargas Llosa, one of the high profile keynote speakers at the event, framed the Chávez government as the chief obstacle to the progress of capitalist free markets in the region.

<snip>

The CEDICE conference also corresponded with this week's inauguration of a new youth political training center outside of Caracas created by CEDICE in partnership with the Cato Institute. The Cato-CEDICE school has received support from the Future Present Foundation, which was founded by Yon Goicoechea, the leader of violent anti-Chávez destabilization riots who received a $500,000 "freedom" award from the Cato Institute last year.

The Cato Institute, a fierce opponent of Chávez, espouses a libertarian free market philosophy, supports the privatization of social security, and is opposed to environmental regulations to halt global warming.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4480

The enemy of the Cato Institute is my friend.

[Zorro]

60. So are you denying that Chavez had scheduled a debate with Vargas Llosa?

And isn't venezuelanalysis.com funded by the Venezuelan government?

[IndianaGreen]

61. I am taking issue with your idiotic Faux-like interpretation of the news

Guess Hugo had second thoughts about debating someone who wasn't going to be intimidated or silenced.

:puke:

[Zorro]

68. Care to identify what in this MSM report is false?

Are you denying there was a debate scheduled and then cancelled? Do you think that Chavez had no say in scheduling the reported debate?

You're certainly welcome to take issue with my opinions, but pejorative characterizations are not recommended. You know that.

[EFerrari]

63. Right. Like Chavez has ever been intimidated by anyone.

lol

[clixtox]

67. No chance that Chavez was intimidated, absolutely none...

but why stoop to interacting with this bozo.

Why give Vargas Llosa's politics the credibility or respect he or they don't deserve.

A measured response makes more sense for Chavez.

Much better than risk being goaded and provoked by supposed "intellectuals".

For what???

Once Chavez retires I doubt that there would be many activities that he would enjoy more than unmasking the bankrupt hypocrisy implicit in reactionary politics.

Looking back historically it is illuminating to notice the political leanings of those leaders most admired, contrasted with the politics of those leaders rightfully despised.

Chew on that...

[Zorro]

76. Whoops! Looks like it was Hugo and his big mouth that first invited them!

<snip>

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Friday backed away from a direct debate with prominent critics a day after he invited Peruvian writer Mario Vargas Llosa and other Latin American intellectuals to join him on live television this weekend.

On Thursday, Chavez said he would be willing to join a group of left-wing intellectuals in a debate with his critics on Saturday at the presidential palace during his program "Hello President."

But Friday night, he said he would probably moderate, not participate in the debate.

"Seriously, gentlemen of the right: 'Hello President,' which happens to be commemorating its 10th anniversary, opens its doors to debate," Chavez said during the second day of a marathon four-day edition of his program. "Come. You'll be respected."

<snip>

More at: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_VENEZUELA_CHAVEZ

[IndianaGreen]

58. Latin America’s Pro-Capitalist Elite Hold Anti-Chávez Conference in Venezuela

Chávez government (is) the chief obstacle to the progress of capitalist free markets in the region.

:nopity:

Latin America’s Pro-Capitalist Elite Hold Anti-Chávez Conference in Venezuela

May 29th 2009, by James Suggett – Venezuelanalysis.com

Mérida, May 29th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) -- Hundreds of right-wing political leaders and representatives of pro-capitalist think tanks from across the world gathered in Venezuela's luxurious Caracas Palace Hotel this week for an exclusive event titled "International Conference for Freedom and Democracy: The Latin American Challenge."

A major theme of the conference was how to put an end to the political changes been carried out by President Hugo Chávez and a wave of other progressive presidents who have been elected across the region over the past ten years.

Peruvian author and former Peruvian presidential candidate Mario Vargas Llosa, one of the high profile keynote speakers at the event, framed the Chávez government as the chief obstacle to the progress of capitalist free markets in the region.

"The path of progress is not the path of collectivism, it is not the path of state-ism, it is not the path of social property," said Vargas Llosa, referring to new forms of social property that the Chávez government has promoted to co-exist with private property, which remains protected by the Venezuelan Constitution. "Property is individual and private or it is not property," said the author.

Vargas proceeded to encourage the wealthy and powerful conference attendees to impede the Chávez administration's progressive policies, which have been approved by a decisive majority of Venezuelans in more than a dozen democratic elections. "If this path is not interrupted, Venezuela will be converted into the second Cuba of Latin America," said Vargas Llosa. "We should not permit it. That is why we are here."

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4480

[Zorro]

62. Readers of this thread might note these comments about venezuelanalysis.com

and their objectivity.

http://alekboyd.blogspot.com/2009/01/gregory-wilpert-of-venezuelanalysis.html

[EFerrari]

66. Because you can't attack the facts, can you?

[Zorro]

71. Touch a nerve, did I?

I know the Chavistas hate it when it's pointed out that their favorite sites -- like venezuelanalysis.com and BOREV, in particular -- have received funds from the Venezuela Information Office, the propaganda arm of the Venezuelan government.

So what's your response to this statement in the report: true or false?

"...In the footsteps of Sanchez, Carol Delgado Arria de Wilpert has recently been appointed as Venezuelan Consul General in New York, where Wilpert is meant to be Adjunct Professor of Political Science, Brooklyn College. Each and every opinion of Greg Wilpert about Venezuela, whether speeches, online articles or books, need to be appraised under this light, that is to say, he is married to a Venezuelan public servant and his work in Venezuelanalysis has been funded with Venezuelan public funds..."

[EFerrari]

72. Not at all. I was thinking that you never met a right wing POS that you didn't like.

In fact, one of my articles is being put out by VA in a collection. When it is, I'll pm you so you can get a copy.

lol

[Zorro]

73. Congratulations. For someone like you who's admittedly never been there

it's quite interesting that they'd promote your blatherings.

[EFerrari]

75. Seriously!

:)

[Judi Lynn]

69. Wonderful! You quote Alek Boyd. Don't know if that impugns you or him!

Sunday, June 11, 2006
Lunatic fringe advocate of violence against Chávez government claims to be victim of defamation
By Justin Delacour

Latin America News Review

June 11, 2006

Aleksander Boyd, a virulently anti-Chávez Venezuelan who resides in London and edits the website V Crisis, has recently launched a defamation suit against London Mayor Ken Livingstone. While Boyd claims that Livingstone defamed him by accusing him of being "a supporter of terrorism against Venezuelan democracy," Boyd does not deny that he advocates violence against Venezuela's democratically-elected government. By his own admission, Boyd has repeatedly advocated such violence on the internet.

Some of Boyd's statements verge on the diabolical. In one rather bizarre article, dated March 18, 2004, Boyd expresses his wish that he were Genghis Khan and that he could order his "hordes" to capture prominent Venezuelan political and judicial officials and "pour melted silver into their eyes." "I wish I could decapitate in public plazas Lina Ron and Diosdado Cabello," Boyd states. "I wish I could torture for the rest of his remaining existence Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel," Boyd continues. "I wish I could fly over Caracas slums throwing the dead bodies of the criminals that have destroyed my country," Boyd goes on.

To top off this outlandishly sadistic fantasy, Boyd indignantly proclaims, "with mentally unstable people one can not engage in dialogue."

Hmmm, do mentally stable people fantasize about employing medieval methods of torture, publicly decapitating political figures, and dumping their bodies in poor neighborhoods?

Rather than embarking on a Quixotic quest to sue London's mayor for imagined "defamation," my suggestion to Mr. Boyd would be that he seek the counseling of a good psychologist. Judging from Boyd's short autobiography, he had a very difficult upringing (which apparently included relentless beatings by a school priest during his childhood, his mother's death in his early teens, and his father's suicide in his later teens). Certainly one can sympathize with someone who has endured such tragedies, but the Quixotic campaigns and sadistic fantasies strike me as signs of real mental instability that ought to be addressed not only for the sake of those whom Mr. Boyd threatens and abuses but also for his own long-term mental health.

http://lanr.blogspot.com/2006/06/lunatic-fringe-advocate-of-violence.html

[EFerrari]

70. LOL!

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

64. That article is great because it names all the players.

And I wonder if the Cato Institute is being bankrolled in its destabilization attempts with our money.

[Judi Lynn]

65. It doesn't take a genius to remember what their class already DID to Venezuela!

That's why people like Hugo Chavez have been elected by landslide majorities.

To their way of thinking, the El Caracazo massacre and murder of 3,000 Venezuelans only as recently as 1989 as they desperately protested a filthy, crushing economic blow from their President Carlos Andres Perez, well loved to this day by the Venezuelan oligarchy, is what they deserved when they rushed unarmed into the streets to cry out against conditions which devastated them, making it impossible for them to even afford transportation to their jobs.

There were so many killed the government even used a bulldozer to shove some of them into mass graves, then claimed there were only around 300 killed, officially. Right. Maybe 300 who didn't get buried soon enough to disappear before being counted. The people who didn't get their loved ones back know how many were slaughtered and that number is considered to be 3,000 around the world.

The Venezuelan people decided after February, 1989, long before Hugo Chavez was well known, they would NEVER allow this kind of power to control them again, and it's going to be very tough sledding for people like this collection of criminals if they think they're going to figure out a way to reseize the reigns of power in Venezuela again.

[EFerrari]

74. Right. These men of the people, these champions of democracy,

I hope they have a wonderful time on the dime of their idiot donors. Maybe the Cato Institutes can give us an update later on how well their campaign against the people of Venezuela went this time.

[Judi Lynn]

81. Here's a reference to Cato's dirty prize of half a million to an anti-Chavez

oligarchy college student:

Think Tank CATO Institute Is A Prime Example Of Orwellism
Monday, 26. May 2008, 06:06:45

Sovereignty

Stephen Lendman exposes the Orwellian Cato Institute writing in Global Research article Grow Them Young, Pay Them Well - Anti-Chavistas, That Is writes that the Washington-based Cato Institute is all about "Individual Liberty, Free Markets, and Peace," or so says its web site.

(Richard: The Cato Organization is an example of an agent of Reality Control where its Good Think youth, like Hitlers youth, rally disingenuously for values such as liberty, freedom and peace; the Cato Institute's policy statements and actions are those of Doublethink and Newspeak).

It's been around since 1977 preaching limited government and free market religion with plenty of high-octane corporate funding for backing.

It better have it for the award it presented on May 15. It was to a 23 year old fifth year Venezuelan law student at Universidad Catolica Andres Bello. Yon Goicoechea was the fourth recipient of the "Milton Friedman Liberty Prize" in the amount of $500,000.

For what? What else. For serving the interests of capital back home and leading anti-Chavista protests.

Goicoechea is leader of Venezuela's "pro-democracy student movement" that in Cato's words "prevented Hugo Chavez's regime from seizing broad dictatorial powers in December 2007."

The reference is to the narrow defeat of Venezuela's reform referendum last December. Goicoechea led student-organized street violence against Venezuela's democracy, but don't look for Cato to say that.

It played up Goicoechea's "pivotal role in organizing and voicing opposition to the erosion of human and civil rights in his country (that) would have concentrated unprecendented political and economic power in the hands of the government." Instead, he chooses "tolerance" and the "human right to seek prosperity." He's been active since student and other opposition emerged against the Chavez government's refusal (with ample justification) to renew RCTV's VHF operating license last May.

Then, and in the run-up to last December's referendum, Cato says he stood down "ongoing death threats and continual intimidation due to his prominent and vocal leadership." He's been "indispensable in organizing massive, peaceful protest marches that have captured the world's attention."

In fact, there were no death threats but plenty of hard right intimidation targeting Chavistas with tools like Goicoechea a part of it.

Cato founder and president Edward Crane said "We hope the Friedman Prize will help further his non-violent advocacy for basic freedoms in an increasingly militaristic and anti-democratic Venezuela."

Far right novelist Mario Vargas Llosa added that "freedom is disappearing" in Venezuela, and "Goicoechea is a symbol of (a) democratic reaction when (it's) threatened."

Goicoechea received his award at a $500 a plate dinner at New York's Waldorf Astoria. Prominent corporate and government types attended, all representing far right interests.

http://my.opera.com/richardinbellingham/blog/show.dml/2137180

http://theyoungconservative.files.wordpress.com.nyud.net:8090/2009/02/yon-goicoechea.jpg http://www.globoterror.com.nyud.net:8090/files/images/pretty_yon1.preview.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_Fyg9HFM68ow/SUw1WPiFkCI/AAAAAAAAASc/O5X-r5F3Am0/s400/291107_yongoi.jpg http://cache.daylife.com.nyud.net:8090/imageserve/0aybfAtco5aGj/610x.jpg http://otraexpresion.com.nyud.net:8090/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/g161.jpg http://www.publico.es.nyud.net:8090/resources/archivos/2008/4/15/1208291523445GOICOECHEA.jpg

Cato Institute's puffy, and WEALTHIER little Yon

[happydreams]

84. Fuck him!! Chavez should lock his ass up! Hugo is too much of a

pacifist for me.
When a treasonous bastard (see reply #53)whose sole aim is to destroy democratic socialism is allowed to run loose it threatens the entire country. Fidel knows how to deal with these fascist slime.

[joshcryer]

86. Fucking authoritarian thugs.