Bush accused of supporting Haitian rebels

[JoFerret]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040227-055619-8595r

[stevedeshazer]

1. Disturbing.

Sounds a lot like Venezuela.

[JoFerret]

3. Yep

<<<"Policy is being engineered, just like when the U.S. wanted to overthrow the Sandinista government," said Ben Dupuy, secretary-general of the National Popular Party of Haiti. Covert CIA operations in Guatemala, the Dominican Republic and the Congo were also mentioned by activists, who repeatedly called for the United States to cease any involvement in the Caribbean nation.

The crisis in Haiti has been looming since flawed legislative elections were held in 2000 during which Aristide's party claimed victory with an overwhelming majority of votes. In response, international donors froze millions of dollars in aid, cutting off a vital lifeline for one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere.>>>
-more-

[Just Me]

2. There you go. THE label for *,..."Supporter of Drug Dealers and Militants"

C'mon. Let's put the FACTS out there!!! Our administration supports drug and arms dealers, oil diggers, and all militants who protect their profits in such investments!!!

[dw]

4. UPI??? What are the Moonies up to?

[Tinoire]

5. Shades of Venezuela. The National Endowment for Democracy

Haiti


The National Endowment for Democracy, in conjunction with the Agency for International Development, gave $189,000 to several civil groups including:

• the Haitian Center for the Defense of Rights and Freedom, headed by Jean-Jacques Honorat -- who became the prime minister in the coup government.
  
  
• In the years prior to the coup, the NED also gave more than $500,000 to the Haitian Institute for Research and Development, allied with the U.S. favorite Marc GBazin, former World Bank executive.
  
  
• Another recipient of NED largesse was Radio Soleil, run by the Catholic Church in a manner calculated not to displease the dictatorship of the day. "During the 1991 coup--according to the Rev. Hugo Triest, a former station director-- the station refused to air a message from Aristide....
  
• Source: William Blum, Haiti 1986-1994: "Who Will Rid Me of this Turbulent Priest?" excerpted from the book, Killing Hope: U. S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II.

The International Republican Institute (IRI), a NED subsidiary, has been active in so-called `democracy enhancement' since 1995.

• This April, after months of organising meetings and conferences, its efforts bore fruit when 26 small right wing, Duvalierist, and what have been described as "ex-Lavalas opportunist" political parties formed the Haitian Conference of Political Parties (CHPP).
  
  
• Dupuy characterised the activities of the IRI as an attempt to "peddle a `democracy' that is not a real popular consultation but an exercise in propaganda and advertising in which they transform the electoral process into one between those who have money and those who don't." The IRI is just one of a number of organisations that will receive money from the US Agency for International Development (USAID) which is engaged in a ten-year programme entitled `More Genuinely Inclusive Democratic Government.' In its submission to the US Congress for funding for Haiti for the financial year 1999, USAID requested some $170 million, of which $38 million will be allocated to `Democracy'.
  
  
• Other recipients of the `Democracy' funding include the International Criminal Investigations Training and Assistance Programme, an institution founded by the FBI in 1986, and run by the US Justice and State departments, which is training the new Haitian police force; the US law firm, Checci and Company, which is running the judicial reform programme; and the America's Development Foundation (ADF), which since the late 1980s in Haiti has channelled funds from USAID and NED to right wing trade unions, conservative media outfits, and apologists for the 1991-4 coup regime, and now concentrates on "strengthening democratic values and processes" among civil society organisations, and `helping' newly elected councillors and mayors.
  
  
• Working alongside the IRI and ADF in the task of `grooming' Haiti's nascent democracy, and also receiving USAID funding, is another organisation, Associates in Rural Development, known in Haiti as Asosye. The particular focus for Asosye is the system for decentralised local democracy based on municipal and rural councils and assemblies. This system was created by the 1987 Constitution in an attempt to provide a counter-weight to the excessive control exerted by the central government in the capital, but elections for these positions have yet to be run in full.
  
  
• Asosye is well-placed to bring its influence to bear over these potentially important local offices as it is no less than a reincarnation under a different name of the widely-discredited, `democracy enhancement' project, known as PIRED. During the early 1990s, and particularly during the three year coup period, PIRED pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into popular organisations, labour unions, peasant groups, foundations, and human rights groups. PIRED also promoted the US refugee asylum processing programme, through which at least 60,000 grassroots militants were interviewed extensively about their activities, enabling the US government to create a detailed database of the democratic movement which many speculate has been used for more than immigration matters. A spokesperson for a platform of Haitian NGOs and popular organisations said he believed Asosye will use this information to buy off local grassroots leaders across the country.
  
  
• The importance of the local councils and assemblies is linked not only to their potential to control political and economic developments independently of the central government, but also because, according to the Constitution, they are empowered to choose the members of the Electoral Council that is tasked with organising electoral contests at all levels. For Dupuy, the Electoral Council is the key to the looming struggle for political power at the national level between, on one side, the new anti-neoliberal party of former President Aristide, and on the other, the OPL, the party currently in a majority in the Parliament, and the new right wing coalition, the CHPP. "The OPL and the coalition realise that if they do not control the electoral machinery then they are out of business."
  Former Prime Minister under President Aristide, Claudette Werleigh, told Haiti Briefing that she saw the presence of the US-funded agencies in the countryside as part of a medium to long term strategy. "I would not be surprised if there are people who are asking them for their help. They say they offer a service and when people don't have the basic infrastructure or money I can understand that people don't even see the dangers that you or I do." Some Haitians do however see the danger. The leader of the Anti- neoliberal bloc of MPs, Jasmin Joseph, said "IRI encourages impunity. It is an agent of US imperialism." Independent MP, Alix Fils-Aime called for the IRI to be ejected from the country, and referring to its role in creating the CHPP, said, "You cannot have democracy with anti-democrats."
  
  
• In July supporters of Aristide's Fanmi Lavalas broke up a conference organised by the IRI in the town of St. Marc. (See IRI's write-up of the event.) In September popular organisations invited to an IRI meeting in the city of Aux Cayes walked out when they were asked to fill out questionnaires detailing their political activities and affiliations. They denounced the "dubious methods of the IRI" and demanded its expulsion from the country.
  
  
• Source: Haiti Support Group, "Old Tricks, New Dog: US "Democracy Enhancement", in "This Week in Haiti", Wed, December 22-29, 1998 * Vol. 16, No. 40 (the English section of HAITI PROGRES newsweekly.) For information on other news in French and Creole, please contact the paper at (tel) 718-434-8100, (fax) 718-434-5551 or email at [e-mail].

http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/ned.htm

Reference anything from these pages that you wish; the more sites that contain this material, the more it will enter into public consciousness and make a positive difference for change.

===========

Trojan Horse:
The National Endowment for Democracy

excerpted from the book
Rogue State
A Guide to the World's Only Superpower
by William Blum
Common Courage Press, 2000


How many Americans could identify the National Endowment for Democracy? An organization which often does exactly the opposite of what its name implies. The NED was set up in the early 1980s under President Reagan in the wake of all the negative revelations about the CIA in the second half of the 1970s. The latter was a remarkable period. Spurred by Watergate-the Church Committee of the Senate, the Pike Committee of the House and the Rockefeller Commission, created by the president, were all busy investigating the CIA. Seemingly every other day there was a new headline about the discovery of some awful thing, even criminal conduct, the CIA had been mixed up in for years. The Agency was getting an exceedingly bad name, and it was causing the powers-that-be much embarrassment.
Something had to be done. What was done was not to stop doing these awful things. Of course not. What was done was to shift many of these awful things to a new organization, with a nice sounding name-the National Endowment for Democracy. The idea was that the NED would do somewhat overtly what the CIA had been doing covertly for decades, and thus, hopefully, eliminate the stigma associated with CIA covert activities.
It was a masterpiece. Of politics, of public relations and of cynicism. Thus it was that in 1983, the National Endowment for Democracy was set up to "support democratic institutions throughout the world through private, nongovernmental efforts". Notice the "nongovernmental"-part of the image, part of the myth. In actuality, virtually every penny of its funding comes from the federal government, as is clearly indicated in the financial statement in each issue of its annual report. NED likes to refer to itself as an NGO (non-governmental organization) because this helps to maintain a certain credibility abroad that an official US government agency might not have. But NGO is the wrong category. NED is a GO.
Allen Weinstein, who helped draft the legislation establishing NED, was quite candid when he said in 1991: "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA." In effect, the CIA has been laundering money through NED.

<snip>

... NED successfully manipulated elections in Nicaragua in 1990 and Mongolia in 1996 and helped to overthrow democratically elected governments in Bulgaria in 1990 and Albania in 1991 and 1992. In Haiti in the late l990s, NED was busy working on behalf of right wing groups who were united in their opposition to former president Jean-Bertrand Aristide and his progressive ideology. NED has made its weight felt in the electoral-political process in numerous other countries.
NED would have the world believe that it's only teaching the ABCs of democracy and elections to people who don't know them, but in all five countries named above there had already been free and fair elections held. The problem, from NED's point of view, is that the elections had been won by political parties not on NED's favorites list.

<snip>

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/TrojanHorse_RS.html

===

Class analysis of a crisis - Haiti
by Kim Ives

This past week saw dueling demonstrations between thousands of pro- and anti-government marchers in Haiti. Political tension, violence and lawlessness are growing. Telephone calls and Internet chat rooms are filled with rumors and speculation about how events will unfold.
To understand the nature of the crisis shaking Haiti today, it is essential to understand the class forces at play.
The destabilization campaign against the Haitian government is being led by the George W. Bush faction of the U.S. bourgeoisie, which is arch-reactionary and hostile to regimes which even pay lip-service to a progressive agenda, as Aristide once did. Two conservative retreads from the previous Bush administration, Undersecretary of State for the Americas Otto Reich and Ambassador to the Organization of American States (OAS) Roger Noriega, are spearheading the campaign to uproot Aristide, whom they charge is becoming an "illegitimate president" of a "pariah state," even as other OAS states stand by wringing their hands at the plight of the besieged president.
Meanwhile, the majority of the Haitian bourgeoisie, as represented by the Association of Industries of Haiti (ADIH), the Chamber of Commerce and of Industry of Haiti (CCIH) and, more globally, the Civil Society Initiative (ISC), has allied itself with the forces of its age-old rival, the landed oligarchy or "grandons," whose purest recent political manifestation was the Duvalier dictatorship (1957-86). The armed expression of the grandons under the Duvaliers was the Tonton Macoutes, who were the eyes, ears and fists of this class. The remnants and descendants of this brutal corps live on in Haiti. Neo-Duvalierist political representatives are often referred to, in Haitian political parlance, as the Macoute sector.

This "Macoute-Bourgeois" alliance is embodied in the Democratic Convergence opposition front, which is funded by Washington's National Endowment for Democracy (NED). Social democratic groups like the Struggling People's Organization (OPL) of Gerard Pierre Charles, the National Progressive Revolutionary Party (PANPRA) of Serge Gilles and the National Congress of Democratic Movements (KONAKOM) of Micha Gaillard and Victor Benoit represent the bourgeois current, which favors taking power through political wrangling facilitated by the OAS and Washington's diplomatic muscle.
The Macoute current favors the "zero option," code for the violent overthrow of Aristide. The Mobilization for National Development (MDN) of Hubert DeRonceray, the Christian Movement for a New Haiti (MOCHRENA) of Pastor Luc Mesadieu and, increasingly, the Democratic Uniq Confederation (KID) of Evans Paul are the foremost representatives of this tendency.

<snip>

More: excellent: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbean/Class_Analysis_Haiti.html

When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.
Dom Helder Câmara

[Judi Lynn]

8. Thanks for providing these articles

They deserve a thoughtful reading.

There's no excuse for ignorance on this subject when the information is offered, is there?

An informed public can't be misled. Hope people will take the time to concentrate on this subject, and seperate themselves from the ignorant idiots who will support our destructive right-wing's treachery against Haiti.

[Dirk39]

16. Reminds me of Aristide's book...

"Today we face complex networks of communications and disinformation, corporations with budgets hundreds of times the size of our national budget, and an army of international financial, trade, and development institutions. The panorama of threats is so daunting that sometimes I say perhaps our only strength is that the majority of the people did not go to school. They are not yet assimilated into this machine. Their minds remain their own and they are experts at unearthing the truth in a morass of disinformation."
Eyes of the Heart, by Jean-Bertrand Aristide, Common Courage Press, 2000, P. 57

During the last ten years, more schools were build in Haity than during the 100 years before.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[peacetalksforall]

9. NED whose members comprise Democrats and Republicans

NED who takes your tax money, gives to the Cuban-American Assns - who funnel it to Senators and Congresspeople for their generous support of embargos, privileged immigration policies, business favors, special money making radio and television blasting to Cuba.

Now, an overthrow of the little people? in Haiti - brought to you by your tax dollars and a few M-16's and deaths.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. Thanks for the research...

damn you are good! :hi:

This situation in Haiti certainly has a stink to it, especially the way Bush et al have thrown Aristede to the wolves. He was elected -- I thought Bush WANTED democracy???

[Tinoire]

33. It's my pleasure. It's my country. I have two & both leave me in tears now

Someone send a film crew to Haiti ASAP. This revolution needs to be televized!

Chavez is sending $1 Million to help Aristide. I have not yet found a news link about sending arms & troops but I heard that he is. Here's the link to the $1 Million


Venezuela donates 1 million US dollars to Haiti


CARACAS, Feb. 23 (Xinhuanet) -- The Venezuelan government would donate 1 million US dollars to Haiti to help the Haitian people who are suffering from political chaos, Foreign Minister Jesus Perez said in a statement Monday.

Perez said fuel, food and medicine would also be sent to Haiti once all the procedures have started.

The minister said Venezuela shares the position of the Organization of American States (OAS) in insisting on the constitutional steps to find a "peaceful and democratic" way to defuse the political crisis in Haiti.

He voiced his concern over a possible escalation of the violence in Haiti, noting that dialogues should be held to resolvethe crisis.

The three-week-long insurgency in Haiti intensified on Monday as the opposition rejected a plan of the international community to negotiate a solution under which President Jean-Bertrand Aristide would share power with his opponents.

<snip>

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/24/content_1328524.htm

[Judi Lynn]

34. Tinoire, I think a poster said yesterday that he/she saw something on CNN

which alluded to Venezuela's sending some helicopters to Port au Prince.

At the time I saw this, I thought that possibly, if things got worse and worse, at least maybe there would be time to lift the President and his wife and the cabinet members, etc. out of harm's way.

I think it's WONDERFUL that Venezuela is coming forward to help. They also know what it's like being the target of some nasty covert backstabbing, and duplicitous treachery from the _Bush league.

[Tinoire]

35. I hope to God they do. Haiti financed Simon Bolivar and was instrumental

in helping Venezuela, Colombia gain their independence. Bless you JudiLyn for your comforting post.


Statue of Haitian President Alexandre Petion, immortalized on the Champ de Mars of Port-au-Prince, Haiti, where he is revered as the father of the Panamerican movement, who helped Simon Bolivar to liberate South American countries such as Venezuela and Colombia.


Historical bay of Jacmel, Haiti, birth place of the Venezuelan and Columbian flags. The red and blue in either of these two flags symbolize Haiti's contribution to the independence of these neighboring sisters countries joined by the eternal vast sea/ocean that connects all of humanity fluidly on planet earth.


Haitians of all colors freely coexisting while pursuing the universal human search for: Liberty, Equality, Justice, Security, Fraternity and human happiness on a beach in the vicinity Jacmel, Haiti W.I. region made famous by the past historical encounter and negotiation between Alexandre Petion and Simon Bolivar in their search for the liberation of their brothers and sisters in South America who were still under the yoke of Colonial powers.



Statue of Simon Bolivar the Liberator of Columbia, Ecuador, Venezuela, Peru and Bolivia immortalized near the Torch of Friendship at Bayside, Miami, a reflection of the cultural, historical and international diversities of this community.


Simon Bolivar a native of Venezuela, also known as the Liberator, proclaimed his country independent around 1812, but was later defeated by the troops of Ferdinand VII of Spain and was forced to flee to Jamaica with his companion of arms at the end of 1815. From there he went to the southern city of Cayes, Haiti, where he and his peers were well received by the Haitian General Marion and the population. He later made his way to the Capital of Haiti, Port-au-Prince, where he met with Haitian President, Alexandre Petion who supported his noble causes for independence and nicknamed him "the author for independence in South America". In the city of Cayes, Bolivar received weapons and ammunitions and was even granted the permission to enroll Haitian freedom fighters who wanted to devote their life for this noble cause of liberty. President Petion only ask one thing of Bolivar: to liberate the slaves in all the countries that he would have liberated. Bolivar returned to his country ready to put his pledge to Petion into action and began by liberating his own slaves on his plantation of San-Mateo. However when he proclaimed general freedom for all slaves, all slave-owners and even his own lieutenants turned against him and was forced again to seek exile in Haiti, this time in the city of Jacmel where he spent six months, it was in the Bay of Jacmel (Southeast city of Haiti) that the design of the flags of both Venezuela and Colombia were conceived. He later returned to South America after many struggles and fierce battles, Bolivar and his army made in part of Haitian freedom fighters defeated the Spanish Imperial army in Colombia and won that country independence in 1819. He liberated his country Venezuela, this time for good in 1821 and Ecuador in 1822. As President, he helped the unification of Venezuela, Colombia and Ecuador into the Gran Colombia. He also helped with the liberation of Peru and Bolivia (Upper Peru) which was named after Simon Bolivar, one of South America's greatest liberator.
http://www.geocities.com/ndorestant/haiticol.htm

What is beautiful for me as a Haitian, is that the OAS, Organization of American States, will NEVER EVER forget what we did to spread real Democracy in the Western Hemisphere & that the OAS will always be a thorn in the side pf Imperialistic America.

Even Clinton tried to do us wrong in favor of the corporations and he still managed to (as a leader of one country, your fidelity is to the way of life of your own countrymen so I understand. I do not accept, but I understand) but the OAS refused to budge more than half an inch and insisted he restore Aristide to power. Clinton did but, to humor the US corporations, tied Aristide's hands so badly behind his back that now we have this mess.

Thank you for you kind post. This morning it meant a lot to me. This morning, for the first time ever, I am drinking in the AM.

When people like Clinton see "Free Labor" the crumbs are bigger for the laborers and there are still a few scruples involved. This angers me but I can at least pragmatically accept that it is better than nothing.

When people like Bush see "Free Labor", OMG, plantation whips are out and everything.

Aristide's crime? Asking the rich to pay a few pennies in taxes to progress from the destruction of the Duvalier regime (US financed all the way for several decades) and asking the US corporations to invest a few pennies (and I mean PENNIES) in social programs such as disability insurance for the slaves. That did not go over well in a NAFTA world.

Truly my friend, I am so heart-broken. I neither understand nor accept this evil.

There is fidelity in the Creole culture & Chavez, Castro live up to it. When Duvalier, the US henchman, needed more money for himself, he would literally phone the White House (didn't matter if it was Dem or Rep) and remind them that it would take Castro all of 10 minutes to distribute arms throughout the entire country. Enough to make progressives like you or me totally sick.

Do you know that Haitians came to the US to fight against British subjugation of the colonies?

Sorry. I'm a wee bit drunk right now because I am so pained by all of this but thank you. Venezuela will help Haiti as will Colombia and all other countries in the Western Hemisphere that Haiti aided to pursue independence from British/US imperialism.



Related thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1164652

[Judi Lynn]

38. Isn't it funny how precious little information has ever been available

to the general American public concerning the countries our right-wing extremist core in government has, whenever possible, worked like the devil to control?

A lot of us are having to do some speedy reading to get anywhere close to being informed on US/Haitian affairs.

The thread you linked is extremely helpful. I bookmarked it, as there's a lot of information to absorb in the linked articles.

This event, coming as it does, and WHEN it does, is moving some of us to try to find out everything we can, and start connecting the dots which have been there from the first.

It really fits the pattern of certain U.S. administrations and their behavior toward all the smaller, and/or weaker countries in the hemisphere. It's not much of a heritage, at this point, but just think how different things can look if we get a good President and some decent legislators again. Maybe we can restore some of the honor that has occassionally been earned by our better public servants in Washington.

[Just Me]

45. The two of you have been incredibly informative,...

,...and I have, from my tiny corner of the earth, spread the information you have provided as far and wide as I am able. I appreciate both of you.

Tinoire,...I acknowledge the pain you are experiencing from a first-hand perspective of the real thugs which are hurting this world. I realize that what I am about to say may be of little comfort to you but,...the situations in Venezuala and Haiti are getting far more attention than similar atrocities a mere twenty years ago. Moreover, the "serpent" (CIA/arms/drugs/rulers/oil) is desperately chomping at its own tail and eating itself into oblivion. That "body" is engaging in an incredible form of greed-based cannabilism.

[Tinoire]

49. Thanks JustMe

I agree about the exposure and the greed-based cannabilism. Thanks. It's just unbearable to watch.

I would love for that exposure to include graphic depictions of the sweatshops though. Thanks

[Darranar]

55. Thanks for all of this...

What do you think of the allegations by the opposition of election fraud in the 2000 legislative elections?

[peacetalksforall]

6. The activists don't say WHY the U.S. is imperializing in Haiti.

My gut tells me this is related to Cuba...there is supposed to be off-shore oil in Cuba...could there also be oil near Haiti?

How can Powell continue to be a prostitute?

Didn't Jimmy Carter go to Haiti for the 2000 election - does anyone know if he has spoken?

[JoFerret]

10. Excellent questions

- We need to hear from Carter on this one.

[pacifictiger]

51. I read recently

that Carter had fired around 800 CIA agents while he was president. Could it be that he thought that too much corrupt influencing foreign countries was gong on? Perhaps it was that action alone that let to the military industrial complex players engineering the october surprise that contributed to his defeat in 1980. A good man has no chance with these entrenched thugs. The trouble with this country is that while domestic affairs have checks and balances with the 3 branches of government, the president and the pentagon pretty much get free reign in the foreign arena under the guise of "national security" secrecy, and an almost carte blanche permission to pick the taxpayers pockets. And we pony up because we've been brainwashed into thinking that more guns is the only thing that will enable us to live a better life.

[Darranar]

11. I think this is part of a campaign...

to enforce American hegemony and corporate power in Latin America.

With Lula, Chavez, and a growing anti-imperialistm and anti-neoliberalism movement in Latin America, the hegemonists may view this as necessary to keep US corporate power entrenched in the region.

[bemildred]

13. I'm not sure about that, but I have considered that

there might be a desire for a ritual sacrifice to show
that we can still punish the disobedient, and Haiti is about
as much as we can muster right now.

[JoFerret]

14. That...and to reveal the inability of

the international community to do the right thing. Thereby - go it alone necessary in iraq.

[Darranar]

19. That is also a possibility...

I'm pretty sure that the hegemonists are afraid of losing the region, and that they're trying to do something about it. With US forces tied up in Iraq and concern about domestic coin-flipping (aka "elections") being prominent in current policy, they aren't capable of much at this point in time, though.

They messed up in Venezuela, and, as you say, they may be trying to prove that they still can perform "regime change" on offenders when necessary despite the mess-ups.

The way things are going, however, I think the eventual results are still in doubt. There will be plenty of opportunities for them to prove their incompetence (again) and turn this into even more of a chaotic mess than it already is.

[bemildred]

20. Agreed, I suspect the next couple days will be critical.

Some aspects of this (the propaganda campaign in particular)
remind me a good deal of the Venezuela coup attempts. Search for
"Haiti" on Google News and look at the repetitive themes in most of
the stories.

It is interesting to speculate about what happens if they fail
to pull this off. I mean if you cannot bully Haiti, who can
you bully?

[Darranar]

22. Yes, this is indeed interesting...

Looking at the first and second pages of the search, only searching for news sources located in the US, the only headlines mentioning human rights abuses on the part of the rebel leaders are from CommonDreams and Human Rights Watch, neither of which can really be considered part of the mainstream press.

http://news.google.com/news?q=Haiti+location:usa&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&scoring=r&start=0&sa=N

Then there is the stuff about chaos, requests for international involvement, and the need for a power-sharing deal. I haven't been reading any media, and certainly not American, regularly when it comes to the matter, but from the headlines (which really determine sentiment more than actual content) there is very little information about the rebels beyond troop movements. Perhaps they are concealing something?

I don't see much hope for Aristide running a stable government after this; IMO there is very little chance that he will manage to pull off a Chavez and hold power the way he did before. The most likely situation in the case of failure is a continuation of this chaos and a gradual vaporization of the issue from the media (sort of like Liberia). So, I suppose they may achieve a half victory whether or not the rebels actually manage to achieve power.

[bemildred]

23. Hard to say about Aristide's prospects.

Really good information is hard to come by.

WRT the "rebels", I think to some degree it's a bluff, a scam,
they cannot really take over with a couple hundred guys if the
Haitian people decide not to accept it. Compare with our situation
in Iraq. So we have this kind of dog-an-pony show with 24/7
propaganda to give the illusion that more is going on than there
really is, and that it is a popular movement, and so on.

The thing I am most interested in right now is whether and in what
way other nations decide to intervene.

[Darranar]

25. I don't think the rebels have quite as much popular support...

as they are made out to, we agree there.

I think they do have enough support, however, from both foreign and domestic power centers, to seize power and hold on to it, especially if the US intervenes more than it already is. (That does not of course mean that their regime will be stable, but the prospects of stability there for any regime are rather low.) If they manage to take the capital and depose Aristide, they may be capable of replacing him with Guy Philippe or some other rebel leader. Whether or not the new regime will actually have any power is a separate matter.

[Aidoneus]

42. apparently the fascist gangs have around 6% support

Not that such things matter, after all "democracy" being when the handpicked bosses do what is best for imperialist business forces and not the selfish whims of the pesky natives.

Apparently a couple years ago, these remnants of the FRAPH gangs and the disbanded military tried to cross over from the Dominican side before as they did this time, but popular resistance beat back their invasion attempt. Unfortunately they were not as successful in doing so this time. :( :( :(

The Dominican military apparently saw the "rebels" training and preparing for this not too long ago--yet they did nothing! :argh:

[Darranar]

43. Thanks for the information...

Do you have any information on turnout rates for Aristide's reelection in 2000 in comparison to his earlier election? I know the opposition boycotted it due (supposedly) to fraudulent legislative elections for eight Senate seats, and that Aristide won with 92% of the vote; the question is whether it actually had a major effect on elections.

[Aidoneus]

44. a solid number I can find is 60%

the opposition claimed 5%.. probably more like 40 or 50.

from what I can gather (weeding out the usual bullshit), Haitians were by then a bit disillusioned--on the one side they had the SOA-trained rightwing thugs of the US-backed elites, on the other hand Aristide and his twin were kept on a short leash and did what their neolib bosses asked and this royally wrecked economic sectors (with the expected unfortunate results)..

[lefty_mcduff]

24. A few notes about US corporate interests in Haiti

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/458.html

[Darranar]

26. Interesting, thanks.

[Judi Lynn]

32. I thank you, too, for that article

Last week I read that the Disney company, using a clothing manufacturer, the Cutler Company, ran a HUGE sweatshop in Haiti which paid the employees around 28 to 30 cents an HOUR for their hard, hard work, to make kids clothes decorated with Disney characters.

A lot of attention has been focused on them, and the Cutler Company may have left, not sure of that.

Haiti most assuredly has been used for cheap labor since the '70's, at least. Americans have gotten rich quick at the great expense of Haitian lives and health.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

15. Very unlikely there is oil near Haiti, the geology is not right

and the water is waaaay too deep.

My guess is this is another thing the Repubs want to "Overturn" that Clinton did.
Their hatred for that man knows no bounds.

[peacetalksforall]

21. Going on history...

they may need anothr Vieques, or another Cayman Islands - the money in the banks there may be sinking the island, they may want to setup a bullet manufacturing company, or they may want to make it a prison, or there might be gold in the mountains - but those are all physical. They may need to deflect. But keeping the little people crawling is probably the correct one.

The Dominican Republic sure did us us wrong and did the cabal well.
What's wrong with them?

[rman]

18. well, globalization of course

all these nations like cuba, venezuela, colombia, haiti: they don't want to play along with this globalization thing the West came up with. They don't want to play along because they are on to the fact that globalization primarily serves big corporations at the expense of the wellbeing of the people.

[proud patriot]

7. Not in my name

:grr:

[Nancy Waterman]

17. Kerry mentioned Haiti in the debate

He didn't go so far as to say Bush had supported the rebels with training and arms, but he did say the Bushies don't like Aristide at all, and that they clearly are pretending to offer help to stabilize things but aren't really. He pointed to their offers to negotiate as long as the rebels agree to let Aristide stay, while knowing the rebels would never agree, and hence giving the rebels power over the situation. Kerry seemed very clear Bush was manipulating the situation for his own purposes and trying to strengthen the rebels hand, while pretending to be neutral and not getting too involved. At least that is how I understood it.

[Dirk39]

28. Kerry?

"The current crisis in Haiti is yet another example of Bush administration neglect in our own hemisphere," Kerry said in a written statement."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=383125

Sounds to me, as if Kerry thinks, Bush is not fast enough in supporting the "rebels". Sounds to me, as if Kerry is promoting one,two, three, four many Iraqs.
Our own hemisphere?
Please prove me wrong!
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[Chicago Democrat]

29. Hello Dirk, thank god your wrong

No Kerry just wants to undue Bush's meddling. This is a manufactured war/crisis jsut like Iraq was.

[Dirk39]

30. Prove?

Sorry, but I'm not convinced. Kerry knows pretty well, what's going on in Haiti. He could toast Bush in a second, if he wanted to, but he doesn't.
It is manufactured. But Kerry did nothing to reveal this, although he has the information. Starting with Clinton's attempt to blackmail Aristide to follow the IMF policy in Haiti 1994 as the price to be paid for US support. Aristide had the guts to refuse to do this, unlike Clinton or Kerry. Now he has to pay...
I cannot see the least attempt to reveal the truth in Kerry's statements.

Dirk

[fearnobush]

31. Me too

Kerry was very direct at being indirect. I think that talk was a message to the BFEE, kinda like, we know what your up to Mr. Bush, A warning of some kind.

[berry]

37. Sen. Harkin spoke on Friday afternoon in the Senate

for about half an hour at least (and I do think the chamber was almost empty at the time) about the situation in Haiti. He accused *Bush of supporting the rebels, whom he characterized as criminals. He gave short bios of the top three. He also kept hammering about the fact that Aristide was elected, and asking about *Bush's commitment to democracy.

I added this comment to the sub-thread about Kerry because I think Harkin was much more direct and critical of *Bush than Kerry seemed in the debates.

Thanks to all who posted articles and info about what is going on! It's absolutely true that the TV reporting is worthless, and I haven't located any background articles in the WP or NYT (though there may be some in the paid archives...).

Has anyone heard if there have been statements by Paul Farmer (the Harvard doctor with a clinic in Haiti)? In googling for him, I came across a Haiti mailing list out of webster.edu, and it seems to be a mixed bag, but has some interesting stuff. Here is one letter that mentions the FRAPH (which Harkin also mentioned on Friday). It's critical of Clinton, but from the links to geocities above, the criticism seems well-enough founded. Anyway, it's a safe bet that the same people who were pressuring Clinton are now in full control in the *Bush WH:

<<To: Haiti mailing list <[e-mail]>
Subject: #15: Shameful U.S. policy protects Haitian`thug'
From: Robert Corbett <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: [e-mail]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:[e-mail]

Published Friday, June 25, 1999, in the Miami Herald
Shameful U.S. policy protects Haitian`thug'

As Yves Colon reported on June 8 (Requirements for Haitian amnesty
unreasonable, advocates say), thousands who fled their homeland to
escape the 1991 military junta may be denied U.S. green cards due to the
irrational proposed regulations of the Haitian Refugee Immigration
Fairness Act.Compounding Washington's indefensible policy: The United
States still harbors the ringmaster of terror who forced most Haitians
to flee. Emmanuel Constant has been granted de facto amnesty in New York
while, under the relief law's requirements, most Haitian refugees likely
face deportation.As the head of FRAPH, the notorious paramilitaries of
the junta that overthrew constitutionally elected Jean-Bertrand
Aristide, Constant led operations to crush democratic opposition.
Although FRAPH was known to commit thousands of human-rights abuses --
including rape, murder and torture -- its leader remained
on the payroll of the CIA. After the 1994 U.S.-led intervention against
the junta,and after President Clinton called him ``a thug,'' Constant
fled Haiti with the help of U.S. embassy officials and was issued a
six-month U.S. tourist visa.Though the Immigration and Naturalization
Service jailed Constant after his visa expired, it released him after 11
months. Then in 1996, the INS ruled that he wouldn't be repatriated
because Haiti's judicial process wouldn't guarantee him a
fair trial (though the United States had trained new Haitian judges).
The shameful handling of the Constant case suggests that the White House
is more concerned with covering up CIA links to Haiti's former military
regime than with serving justice or strengthening Haiti's democratic
institutions. Unfortunately,the voiceless refugees, those harmed most by
that military regime, suffer the outrage of Constant's seeming impunity
from the justice that President Clinton demands for Kosovo.

ADAM BURTON
Research Associate, Council on Hemispheric Affairs
Washington, D.C.>>

Watching this all unfold would drive anyone to drink! A graphic reminder of what the US stands for in the world. (I feel sick :puke: )

[Just Me]

53. It is a sickening revelation that our leadership is so "weak" on democracy

That weakness is clearly a non-discriminatory element in modern day politics.

I wonder when we will demand that the players abide by the rules instead of creating their own game which destroys the possibility of democracy?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. did ja see the rebels brand spanking new uniforms and helmets and guns?

completiments of bushco

[Tinoire]

36. My personal note to NED / SOA apologists

:fuckyou:



:puffpiece:

[jonnyblitz]

39. I agree.

:thumbsup:

[Aidoneus]

41. well put

:argh:

[Judi Lynn]

54. Makes us feel so helpless.

God help the helpless, somehow. He is so young.

We know their help won't come from _Bush. Not really.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. Here's an article by someone who worked in Haiti with NGO's

saying much the same thing:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/562/4634298.html

--------------
Neil Elliott: U.S. must let real democracy govern Haiti

Neil Elliott

Published February 28, 2004
ELLIOTT0228

The first democratic government of Haiti appears to be in its death throes. To add vicious insult to continuing injury, the American mainstream media continue to present Haitian affairs as the sorry result of the dismal leadership of one man, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, despite the best efforts of the United States. The headline that graced the Star Tribune's front page on Feb. 18 -- "U.S., France reluctant to intervene in Haiti" -- would be laughably absurd if the reality it obscured were not so dreadful.

One doesn't have to wander far from the Associated Press wires to find abundant information about the United States' enthusiastic long-term "intervention" in Haiti. The so-called "democratic convergence" that has dogged Aristide's elected government is, in fact, a tiny group of malcontents who are working with elements of the Bush administration to turn Haiti into one vast sweatshop zone. ...MORE

[Neecy]

46. question

Some talking head on CNN the day before yesterday said that the administration has a "theological" difference with Aristide, which made me almost drop off of my chair. The anchor, of course, didn't press the issue.

Does anyone know what the guy was referring to?

[Tinoire]

48. NAFTA, Water privatization. GMOs

Aristide doesn't want his people any more enslaved than they already are. They are already brutally enslaved to the US. The theological difference is over a few pennies for the people's security. And I literally mean pennies.

[Neecy]

50. but...

what does the above have to do with theology?

Doesn't Aristide have a religious background? The man definitely said "theological differences".

[Tinoire]

56. Exploitation/greed are Bush's religion

There are no theological differences.

Aristide believes in helping the poor as dictated in both the OT & NT, Bush believes in exploiting them as advocated nowhere in the Bible.

I don't think Bush even knows how to spell the word theological. He's, as usual, lying through his teeth.

[Darranar]

57. Indeed...

Well said.

[bpilgrim]

47. they are making the same demands for Aristide to STEP DOWN

UNCONDITIONALLY :puke:

peace

[Darranar]

52. Link?

Not doubting your word, with the French calling for the same thing and US sympathies with the rebels obvious, but I'd like to read this in some more detail...

[bpilgrim]

58. US blames Aristide for Haiti crisis - ABC Online

The White House has directly blamed Haiti's first democratically elected president, Jean Bertrand Aristide, for the current crisis in his country and questioned "his fitness to continue to govern Haiti".

"This long-simmering crisis is largely of Mr Aristide's making," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said in a written statement.

"His failure to adhere to democratic principles has contributed to the deep polarisation and violent unrest that we are witnessing in Haiti today," the statement said.

"His own actions have called into question his fitness to continue to govern Haiti."

-- AFP

source...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1055662.htm

Bush's UN Security Council to Haiti: Sorry, Won't help you

http://dominionpaper.ca/weblog/2004/02/bushs_un_security_council_to_haiti_sorry_wont_help_you.html


Bush to Aristide: Surrender power
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11040605&BRD=1697&PAG=461&dept_id=44551&rfi=6

Powell suggests Haitian president consider quitting
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~1982084,00.html

US backs calls for Aristide to resign
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040227-101710-2205r.htm

:hi:

peace

[Darranar]

59. Thanks...

this is really disgusting and sad.:( What the US is currently doing in Haiti is totally inexcusable and unjustified.:grr:

As murderous gangs wreak devastating havoc throughout Haiti, the US calls for Aristide's resignation, using that as an excuse. Coincidence?

Whatever they and the media says, the truth is clear: the Bush Administration is aligned with the undemocratic rebels, terrorist gangs with almost no popular support. Is this another step in "our" glorious "war on terrorism" (that quickly has morphed into a war of terrorism?) Or perhaps a step towards the spread of democracy, which those vile thugs claim to stand for?

There is no excuse or justification for this. No amount of finger-pointing can justify support for terrorism.

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke: