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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:44 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday May 18
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday May 18, 2009

Bush Administration Officials Under Indictment = 2
Financial Sector Officials Under Indictment = 0
Financial Sector Officials In Prison = 2

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON May 15, 2009

Dow... 8,268.64 -62.68 (-0.76%)
Nasdaq... 1,680.14 -9.07 (-0.54%)
S&P 500... 882.88 -10.19 (-1.14%)
Gold future... 931.30 +2.90 (+0.31%)
30-Year Bond 4.08 +0.04 (+0.87%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.13 +0.04 (+1.20%)




U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
NASDAQ FUTURES..............................................S&P FUTURES


Market Conditions During Trading Hours



GOLD, EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver



Handy Links - Market Data and News:
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    Google Finance    LayoffDaily

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    Brad DeLong    Bonddad    Atrios    goldmansachs666

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Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Market Observation by Tim W. Wood (with more 100 year-old Dow Theory)
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Ok, that is one very spooky clown. n/t
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Either he ate a lot of paint chips, or they just feed him some thorazine.
Let him sit in the corner and drool.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. Auugh! My Eyes!
I'm blind!

I always knew my end would have something to do with a clown!

Augh!

:runawayscreaming:
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MARALE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. That is a Killer Klown from Outer Space!
with cotton candy guns and balloon dogs that really chase! It is one of my family's favorite movie!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. no goobermental reports today n/t
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oil rises to near $57 amid weak crude demand
SINGAPORE – Oil prices crept to near $57 a barrel Monday in Asia as traders mulled whether last week's push to above $60 was justified amid signs of weak crude demand.

Benchmark crude for June delivery was up 59 cents to $56.93 a barrel by late afternoon in Singapore in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. On Friday, the contract dropped $2.28 to settle at $56.34.

A series of lower forecasts for world oil consumption last week undercut investor optimism that a global economic recovery was imminent. The International Energy Agency, the U.S. Energy Information Administration and the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries all cut crude demand expectations.

.....

In other Nymex trading, gasoline for June delivery rose 1.24 cents to $1.69 a gallon and heating oil gained 1.48 cents to $1.43 a gallon. Natural gas for June delivery jumped 1.2 cents to $4.11 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. World stocks slip on earnings woes; India soars
LONDON – World stock markets were mostly lower Monday as weak company earnings in Asia dented investors' hopes for a global economic recovery, although India's index vaulted 17 percent after investors saw election results as paving the way for economic reforms.

European stocks followed most Asian markets lower after two of Japan's leading companies — Panasonic and Mizuho Financial — reported colossal losses for the last fiscal year.

India provided a bright spot, however, its shares surging in early trade as results of national elections boosted confidence about the government's stability and ability to enact long-awaited reforms.

In morning European trading, Germany's DAX was down 1.1 percent at 4,684.80 and Britain's FTSE 100 was 0.2 percent lower at 4,338.62. France's CAC 40 fell 1.0 percent to 3,137.85.

Europe took its cue mostly from Japan, where the Nikkei 225 closed down 2.4 percent at 9,038.69, and as markets found little to bolster hopes that the worst of the global recession is over.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090518/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets
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InfiniteThoughts Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. In India, Stock Exchange surged 17% in 2 mins
The markets opened at 9:55 and hit the 15% circuit breaker at 9:56.

When trading resumed at 11:55, the market hit the day-ending circuit breaker at 11:56. Markets will re-open tomorrow at 14,284.21, 2,110.79 point up from Friday's close!

Source: http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/article/news_article.php?autono=397953&special=mkt_topnews

----------------------------------------

That was one thing not a lot of folks saw coming, as late as last Friday.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. Makes Obama's Market Response Look Rather....Unresponsive?
the Indian investor is happy that the rascals got thrown out. The American investor is the rascal that got thrown out. What a cultural difference!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Stock index futures point to lower open
(Reuters) – Stock index futures pointed to a lower open on Wall Street on Monday, extending the previous week's losses as investors worry about the outlook for corporate profits.

At 4:39 a.m. EDT, futures for the S&P 500 were down 0.28 percent, Dow Jones futures were down 0.17 percent and Nasdaq 100 futures were down 0.22 percent.

....

AIG is to speed up plans to list its Asian subsidiary through an IPO that could raise more than $4 billion, as the bailed-out U.S. insurer seeks to raise cash to pay back government loans.

Both macro and corporate diaries were thin on Monday, with Lowe's (LOW.N) the only major company due to report results. On the data front, investors will keep an eye on the U.S. NAHB housing market index, due at 1:00 p.m. EDT.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090518/bs_nm/us_markets_stocks_1
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Wall Street may brake for housing, Home Depot
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Stocks are likely to hit more speed bumps this week as investors become more wary of Wall Street's ability to rally further and housing starts, jobless claims and other indicators are in the spotlight.

With first-quarter earnings reports winding down and recent optimism about economic stabilization already factored into stock prices, analysts said there appears to be very little on the horizon to help extend the recent run-up.

Quarterly earnings from rival home-improvement chains Home Depot Inc (HD.N) and Lowe's Cos Inc (LOW.N) may shed some light on the consumer's ability and inclination to spend. The numbers may also give a hint of any further fallout from the housing slump.

...

The sparse economic calendar also is likely to make this week a troublesome one for U.S. stock investors. A major highlight will be April housing starts, set for release on Tuesday before Wall Street's opening bell. This report on housing starts and building permits will come out a day before the release of the minutes of the Federal Reserve's most recent policy meeting on April 28-29.

Economists polled by Reuters expect that U.S. housing starts rose to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 520,000 units in April, compared with the March pace of 510,000, which was the second-lowest on record dating back to 1959.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090517/bs_nm/us_column_stocks_outlook_2
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. Stocks set for higher start (CNN)
Trading could be choppy as investors search for indications that economy is turning around.

By CNNMoney.com staff
Last Updated: May 18, 2009: 7:23 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- U.S. stocks were poised for a higher start Monday, but trading could be volatile with no major economic reports on tap to give investors direction.

At 7:20 a.m. ET, Dow Jones industrial average, S&P 500 and Nasdaq-100 futures were slightly higher.

Futures measure current index values against perceived future performance and offer an indication of how markets may open when trading begins in New York.

More (Half full types)... http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/18/markets/premarkets/?postversion=2009051807

_____________________________________________________

Gee, nobody wanted the by-line. :crazy:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Call Diogenes and His Lamp
Edited on Mon May-18-09 12:54 PM by Demeter
Maybe he can find an honest turnaround in the Markets....


Diogenes of Sinope
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

Full name Diogenes (Διογένης ὁ Σινωπεύς)
School/tradition Greek philosophy, Cynicism
Main interests Asceticism, Cynicism
Notable ideas Became the archetypal Cynic philosopher
Influenced by Antisthenes
Influenced Crates of Thebes, other Cynics, the Stoics

Diogenes (Greek: Διογένης ὁ Σινωπεύς Diogenes ho Sinopeus) "the Cynic", Greek philosopher, was born in Sinope (modern day Sinop, Turkey) about 412 BC (according to other sources 404 BC),<1> and died in 323 BC,<2> at Corinth. Details of his life come in the form of anecdotes (chreia), especially from Diogenes Laërtius, in his book Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosophers.

Diogenes of Sinope was exiled from his native city and moved to Athens, where he is said to have become a disciple of Antisthenes, the former pupil of Socrates. Diogenes, a beggar who made his home in the streets of Athens, made a virtue of extreme poverty. He is said to have lived in a large tub, rather than a house, and to have walked through the streets carrying a lamp in the daytime, claiming to be looking for an honest man. He eventually settled in Corinth where he continued to pursue the Cynic ideal of self-sufficiency: a life which was natural and not dependent upon the luxuries of civilization. Believing that virtue was better revealed in action and not theory, his life was a relentless campaign to debunk the social values and institutions of what he saw as a corrupt society...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. But WAIT! It Gets Better! Diogenes Was a Banker Who Defaced the Currency!
Life

Diogenes was born in the Greek colony of Sinope on the south coast of the Black Sea, either in 412 BC or 404 BC.<1> Nothing is known about his early life except that his father Hicesias was a banker.<3> It seems likely that Diogenes was also enrolled into the banking business aiding his father. At some point (and the details are confused) Hicesias and Diogenes became embroiled in a scandal involving the adulteration or defacement of the currency,<4> and Diogenes was exiled from the city.<5> This aspect of the story seems to be corroborated by archaeology: large numbers of defaced coins (smashed with a large chisel stamp) have been discovered at Sinope dating from the middle of the 4th century BC, and other coins of the time bear the name of Hicesias as the official who minted them.<6> The reasons for the defacement of the coinage are unclear, although Sinope was being disputed between pro-Persian and pro-Greek factions in the 4th century, and there may have been political rather than financial motives behind the act.

According to one story,<5> Diogenes went to the Oracle at Delphi to ask for its advice, and was told that he should "deface the currency," and Diogenes, realizing that the oracle meant that he should deface the political currency rather than actual coins, travelled to Athens and made it his life's goal to deface established customs and values.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. How sad that Diogenes has to be explained........
:rant: I weep for our education system. Our education system is like American breakfast cearal. Lots of sugar and fluff and not enough substance or fiber. Every one wants the answers to the test and no one wants to take the time to learn. My daughter is great at technical things, and through church and example I have tried to instill a moral code, but it has been hard to slip the classical education in (above and beyond what little is offered). In my freshman class in high school we did a section on Greece and the Greek classics. We also did a Shakespeare play every year in one section too. Yes-folks are brainwashed all right.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
73. I Am an Autodidact
I always had a book under the desk in my lap during lectures. Never read Greek philosophy, though. Just myths and plays and history.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. So am I.....
every summer I would pick a topic and study. One summer I studied ancient Greece. I laughed so hard at the plays of Aristophanes, read Homer, and even managed to study Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, and a few other philosophers. It proved to be one of the best things I did. I always learned more and understood better if left alone. Just give me unrestricted access to a library and an open calender.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. AIG Seeks to Sell Shares in AIA in Asia, Hires Blackstone
May 18 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc., the insurer bailed out four times by the U.S. government, plans to sell shares in its Asian life unit to raise funds to repay taxpayer loans.

AIG, founded in Shanghai in 1919, hired Blackstone Group LP to advise on the reorganization and initial public offering on an Asian exchange of American International Assurance Co., it said in a statement issued through Business Wire today.

Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy is selling property and business units to repay the government $182.5 billion. AIA has more than 20 million customers and more than $60 billion of assets in 13 markets in Asia, a region McKinsey & Co. estimates will deliver around 40 percent of global life insurance premium growth over the next five years.

....

AIA will have a separate board and management team after the IPO, the statement added.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqaC2SegNVnU&refer=home
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. MORE: AIG launches IPO process for Asia crown jewel
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090518/bs_nm/us_aig_3

AIG is to speed up plans to list its Asian subsidiary through an IPO that could raise more than $4 billion, as the bailed-out U.S. insurer seeks to raise cash to pay back government loans.

The IPO would help AIG repay some of the $180 billion the U.S. government has plowed into what was once the world's biggest insurer, and allow the profitable Asia life insurance subsidiary, American International Assurance Co Ltd (AIA), to break from its ailing parent...

Blackstone Group (BX.N), AIG's global financial adviser for its restructuring, will manage the IPO, the insurer said. Most major investment banks will pitch their plans to co-manage and underwrite the IPO, which will print huge fees if successful.

Hong Kong-based AIA has more than $60 billion of assets under management. Last year, AIA said it recruited more than 52,000 agents, bringing the total to about 250,000 agents. It has about 20,000 employees across 13 Asian markets.

AIA is regarded as AIG's Asia crown jewel, a 90-year-old business providing coverage to about 20 million customers, or close to a third of AIG's total customer base...



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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. WORLD FOREX: Dollar Mixed As Risk Aversion Rises; Yen Lower
LONDON (Dow Jones)--A rise in risk aversion helped the dollar rise in places in Europe Monday, while an increase in swine flu cases in Japan was undermining the yen, preventing the currency from cashing in on its safe-haven status.

The euro was also mixed as a result, rising against the yen but falling against the dollar on talk of a split within the European Central Bank and concerns about poor growth data from the central and eastern European economies.

Risk appetite started to come under pressure late last week as global economic data suggested that hopes of economic recovery were somewhat overdone. This was reflected in a desultory performance in global stocks, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average ending Friday 0.8% lower.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090518-703184.html
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Debt: 05/14/2009 11,270,547,397,564.64 (UP 14,587,833,146.21) (Debt's up.)
(A reasonable increase after nearly a week of small moves.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,968,907,881,296.13 + 4,301,639,516,268.51
UP 13,927,016,419.76 + UP 660,816,726.45

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 306-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.26 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.79, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 14 seconds we net gain a another American, so at the end of the workday of this report, there should be 306,350,486 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
Currently, each of these American's owe $36,789.72.
A family of three owes $110,369.15. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 21 reports in the last 30 days.
The average for the last 21 reports is 4,678,507,596.82.
The average for the last 30 days would be 3,274,955,317.77.

There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 79 reports in 114 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 0.06B$ per report, 0.13B$/day so far.
There were 154 reports in 226 days of FY2009 averaging 8.09B$ per report, 5.51B$/day.

PROJECTION:
There are 1,347 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.1 and 18.7T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
05/14/2009 11,270,547,397,564.64 BHO (UP 643,670,348,651.56 so far since Obama took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 1,245,822,500,652.20 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
04/23/2009 -012,857,484,009.95 -
04/24/2009 -000,133,239,400.23 ---
04/27/2009 +000,285,896,492.06 ------------******** Mon
04/28/2009 +000,154,949,620.57 ------------********
04/29/2009 -034,727,762,120.64 -
04/30/2009 +079,347,503,951.43 ------------**********
05/01/2009 -003,202,605,992.57 --
05/04/2009 +000,068,750,275.89 ------------******* Mon
05/05/2009 +000,122,936,524.80 ------------********
05/06/2009 -000,058,764,073.21 ----
05/07/2009 +027,679,213,817.18 ------------**********
05/08/2009 -000,216,334,016.92 ---
05/11/2009 -000,029,759,155.68 ---- Mon
05/13/2009 -000,207,515,478.68 ---
05/14/2009 +013,927,016,419.76 ------------**********

70,152,802,853.81 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $1,605,915,594,305.57 in last 238 days.
That's 1,606B$ in 238 days.
More than any year ever, including last year, and it's 158% of that highest year ever only in 238 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 238 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3878363&mesg_id=3878549
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
74. Debt: 05/15/2009 11,284,110,407,424.51 (UP 13,563,009,859.87) (Debt's up.)
(Two days in a row a reasonable increase after nearly a week of small moves, still.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,981,972,246,485.76 + 4,302,138,160,938.75
UP 13,064,365,189.63 + UP 498,644,670.24

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 306-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.26 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.79, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 14 seconds we net gain a another American, so at the end of the workday of this report, there should be 306,356,658 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
Currently, each of these American's owe $36,833.25.
A family of three owes $110,499.74. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 21 reports in the last 30 days.
The average for the last 21 reports is 3,107,017,768.85.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,174,912,438.19.

There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 80 reports in 115 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 0.10B$ per report, 0.17B$/day so far.
There were 155 reports in 227 days of FY2009 averaging 8.13B$ per report, 5.55B$/day.

PROJECTION:
There are 1,346 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.1 and 18.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
05/15/2009 11,284,110,407,424.51 BHO (UP 657,233,358,511.43 so far since Obama took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 1,259,385,510,512.10 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
04/24/2009 -000,133,239,400.23 ---
04/27/2009 +000,285,896,492.06 ------------******** Mon
04/28/2009 +000,154,949,620.57 ------------********
04/29/2009 -034,727,762,120.64 -
04/30/2009 +079,347,503,951.43 ------------**********
05/01/2009 -003,202,605,992.57 --
05/04/2009 +000,068,750,275.89 ------------******* Mon
05/05/2009 +000,122,936,524.80 ------------********
05/06/2009 -000,058,764,073.21 ----
05/07/2009 +027,679,213,817.18 ------------**********
05/08/2009 -000,216,334,016.92 ---
05/11/2009 -000,029,759,155.68 ---- Mon
05/13/2009 -000,207,515,478.68 ---
05/14/2009 +013,927,016,419.76 ------------**********
05/15/2009 +013,064,365,189.63 ------------**********

96,074,652,053.39 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $1,619,478,604,165.44 in last 239 days.
That's 1,619B$ in 239 days.
More than any year ever, including last year, and it's 159% of that highest year ever only in 239 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 239 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102&topic_id=3881870&mesg_id=3881890
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. Volkswagen Halts Porsche Merger Talks After Two Weeks (Update2)
May 18 (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG, Europe’s largest automaker, called off talks with Porsche SE about a merger less than two weeks after the sports-car manufacturer’s controlling families agreed to pursue a combination.

“There is currently no atmosphere for constructive talks,” Christine Ritz, a spokeswoman at Volkswagen, said yesterday in a telephone interview. In a statement, Porsche said that while a meeting scheduled for today had been canceled, negotiations will resume. It didn’t give details.

The Porsche and Piech families, which together control half of Porsche, agreed May 6 to create an “integrated” carmaker that would put Porsche alongside VW brands including Skoda and Audi. Talks to hash out details of a merger are on hold after VW Supervisory Board Chairman Ferdinand Piech said May 11 that VW wouldn’t help “solve” Porsche’s financial problem and that Porsche must trim its 9 billion euros ($12 billion) in net debt.

.....

Any agreement between Porsche and VW will require approval by Volkswagen’s home state of Lower Saxony, which has a right to veto decisions through its 20 percent stake in VW. The automakers, worker representatives and Lower Saxony officials will decide on the new group’s structure over a four-week period, Porsche SE said May 8.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a10CHUH9Qlgc&refer=home
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
31. VW to Porche: "What do you mean 'our assets will keep you going', we thought you had the assets."
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. S&P 500 Earnings Decline: 90%
With earnings season coming to an end, I wanted to find a way to depict the severity of the financial meltdown into the context of profits.

This Stock of the Day chart does so, showing just how unprecedented the profit destruction has been:

-see chart-
“While the stock market is up sharply since early March, the economy as well as corporate earnings continue to suffer. Today’s chart helps provide some perspective as to the magnitude of the current economic decline. Today’s chart illustrates that 12-month, as-reported S&P 500 earnings have declined over 90% over the past 20 months (with over 90% of S&P 500 companies having reported for Q1 2009), making this by far the largest decline on record (the data goes back to 1936). In fact, real earnings have dropped to a record low and if current estimates hold, Q3 2009 will see the first 12-month period during which S&P 500 earnings are negative.”
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/sp-500-earnings-decline-90/
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Wow that chart at your link, makes me dizzy.
Thanks for posting it. A picture is worth a thousand words.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Even Worse: It's Logarithmic
so it looks better than it is.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. I blame the clown at the top of the page.
Somebody please tell me that's just a trend line on the far right of that chart!

:haironend:

:scared:
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. But, not as bad as they thought!
BUY! BUY~ BUY!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Faith-Based Economics
Edited on Mon May-18-09 05:46 AM by ozymandius
Faith-Based Economics
May 15, 2009
By John Mauldin

....

Why does government data need to be revised so often? Is it conspiracy, as some claim, or is it methodology? And if it is methodology that leads to faulty data, then why not change the methodology? Is unemployment a lagging indicator, as conventional wisdom suggests? We look again at the underlying assumptions to suggest that things are not always the same. And finally, we look at unsustainable trends, fiscal deficits, and health care — there is a connection.

....

“Many market-watchers claim that U.S. economic statistics are increasingly being revised downward in subsequent periods, suggesting that the figures initially being reported by Washington are “puffed up,” so to speak, most likely for political purposes.

“Well, I went back and had a look at the differences between the reported and revised data for various series, including monthly retail sales, nonfarm payrolls, industrial production, and durable goods orders, to try and figure out if the cynics are right.

....

The “problem” comes from the methodology. There is no exact data for any of those statistics. They have to get as much data as they can and then make estimates. Part of the process of estimation uses previous trends. It is as if we were using past erformance of a mutual fund or stock to project future returns. Even though we look at the past performance, we should know that past performance is not indicative of future results. Just look at some of the top-performing value-oriented mutual funds in the recent bear market, like superstar Bill Miller’s Legg Mason Value Trust fund (LMVTX), the after-fee returns of which had beaten the S&P 500 index for 15 consecutive years, from 1991 through 2005. It did rather poorly last year, even in comparison with the S&P, which was horrid. Past performance is interesting, but it can disappoint. And sometimes rather viciously.

....

But in the short run, at economic transitions they are going to get it wrong, because the backward-looking data is mean-reverting. But how else would you do it? One of the keys to economic transitions is to look at the direction of the revisions. Recently, the revisions have all been negative. Things are actually getting worse than the initial data suggested. And during the last recovery the data kept getting revised upward, especially six months and one year later.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/faith-based-economics/



Edited to add: Look at the maps comparing job gains to job losses in the past seven years. There has definitely been some kind of "claw back" effect going on. Almost every area of the country that saw job gains in 2002 have seen the equivalent number of job losses within six years, frequently doubling losses over previous gains. It's horrific.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Since When is a Plunge a "Change in Direction"?
They are constantly puffing up the numbers to minimize the plunge from month to month, to keep the sheeple from stampeding and toppling their little sand castles in management. They ignore past performance when it doesn't fit into their propaganda.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
59. Seems like all economics has been faith-based so far.
Let me know when they start taking experimental economics seriously. We have actually been running economics experiments unintentionally for a long time, but no one seems to care about the results.

Trickle down has been tried a couple of times. The data says it failed both times.

Supply side--failed.

Raising the minimum wage--works pretty good actually.

Banking deregulation--leads to massive government bailouts and/or bank failures (1929-1933, S&L crisis, and current mess).

Banking regulation--keeps banking system running safely, but makes bankers complain.

Social Security--succeeds in reducing poverty amongst elderly, has its own independent tax system, never runs a deficit, but makes Republicans salivate looking for ways to make profit off the program.

Cutting taxes for the rich--fails to stimulate economy, does not lead to jog creation.

Cutting taxes for poor or middle class, or simply giving them money--leads to economic stimulation and job creation.

Government job creation--stimulates economy and leads to additional private sector job creation, but Republicans pretend government job creation doesn't exist (even though they get mail delivered every day).
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javelin Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. It is very easy to tell when the market will go up.
Every time the market drops. Bernacke, Sommers, Geithner, or other treasury people go on t.v. and tell the public that the market is better, then the buyers rush out and buy more stock. Obama tells them to buy stock, they will buy stock. The market goes by what the politicians tell them what to do. The market was set to drop today but the treasury said over the weekend that we are well on the way to recovery and that is all it takes.

I look for the government to take another trillion dollars away from the taxpayers before the year is out and call it TARP II. Then give all that money to the rich again.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
15.  In Their Own Words - Economic Quotes

From Chris Martenson's website






(1)

"At this juncture . . . the impact on the broader economy and financial markets of the problems in the subprime markets seems likely to be contained,"

Ben Bernanke, March 28, 2007
in a statement to Congress’ joint economic committee


(2)

"It is not the responsibility of the Federal Reserve - nor would it be appropriate - to protect lenders and investors from the consequences of their financial decisions.“

Ben Bernanke, October 15th, 2007


(3)

" has a strong labor force, excellent productivity and technology, and a deep and liquid financial market that is in the process of repairing itself.”

Ben Bernanke, January 18, 2008


(4)

“The long-term fundamentals of our economy are strong," but "e believe the economy is going to continue to grow slowly here. This is not an emergency.“

Hank Paulson January 18, 2008


5)

" is fundamentally strong, diverse and resilient.“

Hank Paulson, February 14th, 2008


(6)

'The worst is likely to be behind us . . . . ”

Hank Paulson, May 7, 2008


(7)

On Freddie and Fannie: “They will make it through the storm”, "… in no danger of failing.","…adequately capitalized“ (two months later they were nationalized)

Ben Bernanke, July 16th, 2008


(8)

"I think all of our efforts, so far, have produced results. … And I think as those green shoots begin to appear in different markets and as some confidence begins to come back that will begin the positive dynamic that brings our economy back. … I do see green shoots"

Ben Bernanke, March 15, 2009


And:

“What you’re starting to see is glimmers of hope across the economy.”

President Obama, April 10, 2009


(9)

"I think the sense of a ball falling off the table -- which is what the economy has felt like since the middle of last fall -- I think we can be reasonably confident that that's going to end within the next few months and you will no longer have that sense of free-fall,"

Lawrence Summers, April 8, 2009


(10)

“We are hopeful that the very sharp decline we saw beginning last fall through early this year will moderate considerably in the near term and we will see positive growth by the end of the year,"

Ben Bernanke, May 5, 2009
to the Joint Economic Committee


and

"The recent data ... suggest that the pace of contraction may be slowing, and they include some tentative signs that final demand, especially demand by households, may be stabilizing,“

Ben Bernanke, May 5, 2009
to the Joint Economic Committee


More to follow as time goes on.....
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/their-own-words/18959


Supposedly these are quotes attributed to Tim Geithner, but no dates
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/timothy_geithner/
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. U.S. budget chief says signs of economic free-fall over
GOVERNMENT BY METAPHOR--BE CAREFUL THE STORIES YOU TELL YOURSELF!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090518/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_5



WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration's budget chief said on Sunday there are signs that the free-fall in the economy seems to have halted.

"There are some glimmers of sun shining through the trees, but we're not out of the woods yet," White House budget director Peter Orszag said on CNN's State of the Union.

U.S. economic data have shown evidence that the recession's worst phase may be over, with April consumer prices unchanged and industrial output declining at a slower pace than in March.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has also suggested that the recession should end this year as long as there is no reemergence of the credit crunch.

Orszag said as the economy starts to recover the deficit will come down quickly. The White House recently forecast a higher budget deficit of $1.84 trillion, or 12.9 percent of gross domestic product, for the fiscal year ending September 30.

"The economy remains weak (so) we will continue to have these elevated deficits so, again, we're going to have more to say about this in a couple of months," Orszag said.

(Reporting by Rachelle Younglai; Editing by Eric Walsh)
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Some glimmers of sun

just before the tsunami hits us
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. The Titanic has stopped sinking, too
It hasn't gone any lower since 1912.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. The Titanic has even risen a little.
If you count the accretions of rust and formanifera.

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Formanifera

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. US uptick doesn't mean crisis is over: top US economist
For a second opinion.
---------------------------------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090516/ts_alt_afp/tourismconferenceuseconomyfinance

Sat May 16, 6:16 pm ET

FLORIANOPOLIS, Brazil (AFP) – A few recent glimmers of economic hope emerging in the United States do not mean the global crisis is over, a top economist who advises US President Barack Obama said Saturday.

The crisis "is certainly the worst that I have seen in my career," Martin Feldstein, a 69-year-old Harvard economist and member of Obama's Economic Recovery Advisory Board told a world tourism conference in Brazil.

"The evidence simply doesn't support" the conclusion that the United States is on its way to a sustained recovery, said the academic, who also served as an advisor under former presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

He added that Europe's economy is "equally bad if not worse than in the US," and "Japan has been hit even harder."

While some US observers and media in recent weeks have struck an optimistic tone on the back of a rebound in the stock market and positive results from big US banks, Feldstein said that was "temporary" because the bad news far outweighed the good.

He stressed that a "one-time rise in GDP due to the stimulus package" implemented by Obama's administration was being extrapolated across the rest of the year.

But he said that stimulus package, headlined as an 800-billion-dollar initiative spread over two or more years, in fact equated to just 300 billion dollars for this year.

That, Feldstein said, was less than half the 750 billion he estimated had been sliced out of the US economy by dramatic stock market losses, home price declines and a drop in residential construction caused by the crisis.

The package "is not strong enough, not targeted enough, to deal with these problems," he stated.

Feldstein noted that one-third of all mortgaged US homes were now worth less than the value of their loans, suggesting more owners would simply walk away and the rate of foreclosures would rise, further depressing house prices and causing a spiral.

"It is a very dangerous situation," Feldstein said.

A recovery was possible in 2010, the professor advanced, but added: "Frankly, that is just a hope."

He also warned of an impending slide in the value of the US dollar after the crisis because of the massive US trade deficit, a scenario that would drive up the trade-weighted value of the euro, making European exports more expensive.

In the past three weeks, the bad news has piled up in the United States.

Official data showed the economy shrank 6.1 percent in the first quarter of 2009, with unemployment climbing towards what analysts predicted would be nearly 10 percent by year's end.

Auto giants General Motors and Chrysler are in distress, and US airlines have reported a seven-percent drop in travel for the summer vacation period.

US industrial production continued to fall in April, by 0.5 percent, after a 1.7 percent decline in March. US consumer prices dipped on an annual basis at the steepest pace in nearly 54 years.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. I give It Till September
I'll be alone each and every night
While you're away, don't forget to write
Bye-bye, so long, farewell
Bye-bye, so long

See you in September
See you when the summer's through
Here we are (bye, baby, goodbye)
Saying goodbye at the station (bye, baby, goodbye)
Summer vacation (bye, baby bye, baby)
Is taking you away (bye, baby, goodbye)

Have a good time but remember
There is danger in the summer moon above
Will I see you in September
Or lose you to a summer love
(counting the days 'til I'll be with you)
(counting the hours and the minutes, too)

Bye, baby, goodbye
Bye, baby, goodbye
Bye, baby, goodbye (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
Bye, baby, goodbye (bye-bye, so long)

Have a good time but remember
There is danger in the summer moon above
Will I see you in September
Or lose you to a summer love

(I'll be alone each and every night)
(While you're away, don't forget to write)
See you (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
In September (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
I'm hopin' I'll
See you (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
In September (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
Well, maybe I'll
See you (bye-bye, so long, farewell)
In September (bye-bye, so long, farewell)

The Associations, and others before them
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Then will we hear this in September?
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
32. Oh look, after that last tidal wave the water is receeding...oh sh_t!
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burf Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. But he does have a point
Its not the fall you have to worry about, its that sudden stop at the bottom that'll get you!

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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
60. What did the economist say as he passed the second floor after jumping off a 90-story building?
"So far, so good."
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
33. US Financial Stocks Up After Bank Of America Upgrade (WSJ)
By Greg Morcroft
A bullish research note from Goldman Sachs urging clients to buy Bank of America Corp. (BAC) shares with conviction boosted the Charlotte bank's stock 10% and helped the financial sector in general.

Goldman Sachs on Monday upgraded Bank of America shares to buy from neutral and added the company to its conviction buy list, saying the market is absorbing a new stock issue and that the firm could earn 25 cents a share during the second quarter, well above analyst expectations of 1 cent a share.

Bank of America's shares rose almost $1.07, or 10%, to $11.75. The Financial Select Sector SPDR exchange-traded fund (XLF) rose 40 cents, or 3.6%, to $11.94.

The analysts said Bank of America should be done selling several billion dollars of new common stock at market prices within a matter of weeks, and the dilutive pressure of that move should wane.

The analysts added that their optimism is also, "based on another solid mortgage and capital markets quarter, given observable activity levels since March."

Moreonthishere... http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090518-708480.html

__________________________________________________________________

Will BoA pass the conflict-of-interest upgrade on to their besieged customers? Film at ... NEVER!

Hey, guys... Isn't cats and dogs sleeping together one of the seven signs?
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. More like the signs of a major flea infestation.
Pfft...the bs'ers bs'ing the masses again. :yawn:

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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. We've become almost numb to it haven't we?
Every day, it just gets more blatant, more relentless.

I can't even put together a decent rant about it anymore, if for no other reason than you can only preach to the choir so much, and there are very few people outside of this thread that even want to bother to listen.

Americans are comfortable in their slavery and servitude.

Pretty soon, "The Terrorists" will be YOU and ME.
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TheMachineWins Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
63. That's already true
Read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man", the IMF/World Bank loots 3rd world countries by faking all the economic numbers and accounting. We're doing the same thing here to our own population. I met a guy over the weekend that works for the State Dept, he helps loan money to 3rd world countries. Wisely, I kept my mouth shut, I know what our country does and it ain't pretty.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. Exactly, after all the stories on BoA and Goldman Sachs
They need to prove themselves in the long run to be trustworthy enough to invest in again. I don't see it. BoA still has underlining problems after taking over all the failing identities last fall. I am guessing the "buy" rating comes from the infusion of stimulus money to keep them solvent. Without that, we are at last September, where the worldwide and domestic economy did come to a fiery ball from the sky ending. :scared:
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
65. It's like that Ritholtz fellow says
"Less bad is the new good."

The markets are irrational, BTW. I try not to make sense of it to avoid going more insane.
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TheMachineWins Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. "Renewed optimism"
Just add it to the list of lies we're subject to every second of every day.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. The Only Thing They Have Is Propaganda
Edited on Mon May-18-09 01:55 PM by TheWatcher
And the assumption that the Public will keep buying it.

They have no tangible evidence whatsoever that the Real Economy is improving.

If you read today's headlines you would assume that Lowe's had a Record Profit this past quarter.

Their Profit FELL, and it was not a positive report. But it feel by less than expected, and they had "Optimism" to share, so this is the reason given for today's ridiculous advance.

The Yahoo Finance Headline says it all

Stocks jump on renewed optimism on housing, banks

People need to develop a fundamental understanding of something:

YOU are not going to benefit from this illusion they are constructing

YOU are still going to lose your job.

YOU are still not going to be able to pay your bills.

YOU are still not going to have Health Care.

YOUR Wages are going to continue to fall, and your cost of living will continue to increase.

YOU are going to suffer.

THEY are going to laugh all the way to their insolvent Bank which YOU are going to keep bailing out to keep THEM fat and happy.

Look, this is ALL manufactured and completely artificial.

If you took a look at the Futures when they opened yesterday they were down -100 and they remained deep in the red throughout the night.

Then, at 3 AM, they magically rocketed into the green. (AS they do at 3 AM EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS)

The funny thing about that is that throughout this manufactured Bubble, the Futures have ALWAYS cliff dived almost every single day after the close. Read into that what you will, but you couple that with the fact that all they have really accomplished since the 30% runup is to keep this thing in a VERY narrow trading range of about 300-400 points, you can see this is absolutely fake.

And it isn't going to end well.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. How long do you think they can keep up this propaganda?

A few more months? Maybe thru September? It seems to me, the the longer time for fake feel-good propaganda, the higher the market will get, then the farther it will fall. A crash?

Fairly soon, all those thousands (millions)of people will be unemployed from the auto shutdown. Maybe that will cause confidence to shift in the markets, or maybe another horrible hurricane. But what do I know, I just read the Internets.

:shrug:
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. What scares me is I don't think they really care.
Edited on Mon May-18-09 02:47 PM by TheWatcher
The level of Propaganda which they are getting away with is the key. If the majority of the people are willing to let this kind of BS pass, then we really have ceased to be a functioning democracy, and can only continue to slide into Banana Republic Status and beyond.

They can keep it up as long as we keep buying it.

They have all the Tools in place (Most provided to them by the last installed dictatorship) that they need to quell any uprising by the proles that isn't full on massive, and because we have proven, as a majority overall, that we would much rather Revel in False Comfort and Cathode Basted Wonderment than Rage Against The Machine, I think they are fairly confident that they can keep us under control.

The variable that is always going to be a Wild Card for them is a Mass Awakening, A Romania type situation if you will. I really don't think they have a viable plan for that, that would be to anyone's benefit, even ultimately their own, at least one that would allow the country to continue to exist as it currently does. Oh, they have plans, but I don't think either you or I would feel comfortable discussing it on DU.

but the real question I think you were getting at is how long can they keep this up before reality takes over and it becomes obvious what they are doing.

One thing is for sure, the major shifts in the economy that will indicate the jig is up and this is all a farce are going to show up on Main Street before it shows up on Wall Street. We must keep our focus on Main Street for all the signs we need to help us decide what steps to take for ourselves.

They WANT your attention focused on the Circus Clown Show they are putting on, in hopes you will ignore all the reality around you.

What those who can see should be doing is paying attention to the what's going on behind the curtain. Because even though they are trying to Propagandize us all into submission, the truth is still hidden in plain sight, even in their Propaganda.

They're just telling you that it's signs of a recovery.

Kind of like telling you Drano is good for digestion. :)

I'm thinking September is when even those who are blindly following and worshiping will be able to see that this is all a facade.

The Economic Reality is more than likely going to overwhelm the Fantasy by then.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
44. “History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.” - Karl Marx
Karl Marx actually said:

"Hegel once said that all historical events and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."

The point is rather the opposite of your misquotation. What he's actually saying is that history NEVER repeats itself.

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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. How are you enjoying the economic recovery?
Edited on Mon May-18-09 01:57 PM by TheWatcher
Isn't is just freakin' AWSUM? :)
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Huh?
:shrug:
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Just a little sarcasm to brighten up your day.
Edited on Mon May-18-09 02:24 PM by TheWatcher
:hi:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. And yet I still don't get it
...

Man, I'm dumb.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Although you and I disagree more than we agree
Edited on Mon May-18-09 02:50 PM by TheWatcher
You most certainly are NOT Dumb AM. Quite the opposite. :)
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. There are immitators and then there are detractors.
History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme - so says Mark Twain. For me, this is the same idea from a different point-of-view. Inappropriately attributed as it may be - that is what the meaning has always been to me. History does not repeat itself anchored in its original context, in action and as end result. However the motives and motions may appear very similar.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. I thought I opened an old SMW thread seeing your post ...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. I'm not above correcting somebody twice when they commit the same error
Edited on Mon May-18-09 07:16 PM by alcibiades_mystery
:-)
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
52. The perfect permanent SWT theme........
I was digging around yesterday and found this gem. We can have out daily themes, but I would humbly put before you the quintessential SWT Theme....

Brainwashed by George Harrison.

Brainwashed in our childhood
Brainwashed by the school
Brainwashed by our teachers
and brainwashed by their rules

Brainwashed by our leaders
By our Kings and Queens
Brainwashed in the open and brainwashed
behind the scenes

God God God
A voice cried in the wilderness
God God God
it was on the longest night
God God God
An eternity of darkness
God God God
Someone turned out the spiritual light

Brainwashed by the Nikkei
Brainwashed by Dow Jones
Brainwashed by the FTSE
Nasdaq and secure loans
Brainwashed us from Brussels
Brainwashing us in Bonn
Brainwashing us in Washington
Westminster in London

God God God
You are the wisdom that we seek
God God God
The lover that we miss
God God God
Your nature is eternity
God God God
You are Existence, Knowledge, Bliss

The soul does not love, it is love itself
It does not exist, It is existence itself
It does not know, It is knowledge itself
"How to Know God" Page 130

They brainwashed my great uncle
Brainwashed my cousin Bob
They even got my grandma when she was
working for the mob
Brainwash you while you're sleeping
While you're in a traffic jam
Brainwash you while you're weeping
While still a baby in your pram
Brainwashed by the Military
Brainwashed under duress
Brainwashed by the media
You're brainwashed by the press
Brainwashed by computer
Brainwashed by mobile phones
Brainwashed by the satellite
Brainwashed to the bone

God God God
Won't you lead us through this mess
God God God
From the places of concrete
God God God
Nothing's worse than ignorance
God God God
I just won't accept defeat

God God God
Must be something I forgot
God God God
Down on Bullshit Avenue
God God God
If we can only stop the rot
God God God
Wish that you'd brainwash us too

Hindu prayer chant.


I don't think it gets better than that.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Thank You For That Anne. :)
Today is one of those days I just feel resigned to it all.

Just reading the headlines I was kind of like "OK, OK, you win, everything is wonderful, just shut the fuck up."

I'm feeling a bit torn between staying informed and just tuning out so I can have a little peace. It just gets exhausting after awhile.

You know, the old saying is right.

Ignorance Truly IS Bliss.

There is also another saying that "The Market Can Stay Irrational A Lot Longer Thank you Can Stay Solvent."

I think after today I have adopted a new variable of that:

"The Public Can Stay Wilfully Ignorant A Lot Longer Than You Can Stay Sane."
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. LOL LOL LOL
"The Public Can Stay Willfully Ignorant A Lot Longer Than You Can Stay Sane."

Boy ain't it the truth. I find myself in the same predicament. I listen to the news but try to stay focused on what is important to me.

That is why I liked Brainwashed by George Harrison as a theme. Interspersed in the lyrics are truths that one can focus on, and mantras that act like a a rinse cycle and clear all impurities out.

Our government is not listening to the people or acting in our interests and in fact has chosen it's direction beside the corporations. Like sheep-most Americans are going with the herd instead of fighting. I will stay on the edges of this herd, protecting my self and family as best I can, but remain able to break away when I need too. I never thought I could win an election and lose my country-but I guess one can.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Nice song. Here's a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ8pjXxNym4

Apparently this song was released after Harrison's death. Is that right?
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Apparently so.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. How wonderfully fitting.
I've always enjoyed the insightful lyrics of George Harrison. He is absolutely top shelf. If asked who would write the best theme music for the SMW - I would have picked George Harrison, Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan.

Thank you for this Anne.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #64
75. You picked all on my short list......
there is something about this song that resonated with me. Especially after this election and all the send up. Is this all I get? I was good, did all I was suppose to and this is what is delivered to me. I feel like I got a lump of coal in my Christmas stocking.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
72. Perfect!

Thanks for posting this song.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
62. Market up big and health care still laying people off
http://www.startribune.com/local/45348187.html

ROBBINSDALE, Minn. -

North Memorial Health Care in Robbinsdale says it will reduce its work force through layoffs and reduced hours, which will impact about 170 employees.

The hospital is looking to eliminate about 100 jobs.

Officials say patient volumes have declined, and the hospital has had a 22 percent increase in uncompensated care.

Hennepin County Medical Center and Park Nicollet Health Services have also announced planned layoffs in recent weeks.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. This makes me wonder how many sick people are staying at home.
Declining patient volumes plus an increase in indigent care are indicative of systemic ills. Consider also the irony that 100 people are about to lose their health insurance from a hospital layoff. Our healthcare system makes no damned sense.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
68. And ONCE AGAIN The Futures Are in The RED after the close.
Edited on Mon May-18-09 06:16 PM by TheWatcher
The Nightly Prop has begun early, but it does not take away from the fact that SOMEBODY has NEVER believed in this so-called "Recovery" from the very beginning.

EVERY day it is like this.

They Wave The Pom-Poms telling you Happy Days Are Here Again, and then the Rats Jump Ship while you sleep.

People, in a real Recovery it is NOT NECESSARY to do a STICK SAVE ON THE OVERNIGHT FUTURES EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

Because it doesn't happen.

This whole thing is the Greatest Engineered Fraud In History.

It pains me to say this, But Obama's Economy is already looking like it's going to be an even BIGGER sham and be even MORE Destructive than the previous dictator's was.

This is UNBELIEVABLE.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. As I said in an earlier post - please don't try to make sense of it.
The markets are irrational. They eat their own. Fundamentals do not matter. It's a sham. The invisible hand exists to manipulate. Insiders are selling personal shares while the artificial entities, the companies, are buying shares to prop up the prices. TARP money has been used this way. But try not to crack the logic of the averages. That's Devil's Snare.
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