Sri Lanka warned on 'war crimes' , may face War Crimes charges - UK FM

[Vehl]

Source: BBC

The UK has told Sri Lanka it may face a potential war crimes probe over deaths of civilians in the island's conflict, a Foreign Office minister has said.

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We would support an early investigation into all incidents that may have resulted in civilian casualties
Bill Rammell, Foreign Office Minister


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Mr Rammell told the Commons the message from the UK government was that the "killing has to stop".

"The use of heavy weapons in an area of such intense civilian occupation will inevitably lead to civilian casualties, making it very difficult to comply with the requirements under international law to minimise civilian casualties," he said.

"We would support an early investigation into all incidents that may have resulted in civilian casualties, particularly the reported shelling of hospitals, to determine whether war crimes have been committed."

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Labour's Andrew Dismore, chairman of Parliament's Committee on Human Rights, suggested it was "time the rest of the world turned their back on the Sri Lankan government, isolated them and held them to account".

In response to a question from Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Edward Davey, Mr Rammell said the government had made it "absolutely clear" to Sri Lanka that it supports an investigation on "any allegations of war crimes".

Read more: ,http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8050244.stm ,http://unbowedandunafraid.com/uusite/440233

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its heartening to see a genocidal government finally being held accountable in the international arena

Human Rights Watch last week published a list of thirty reported air and artillery strikes against hospitals allegedly carried out by the Sri Lankan government. Previously, Sri Lanka's Defence Secretary Gotabhaya Rajapakse went on record telling Sky News that the government considers hospitals a "legitimate military target."

imo,This Human Rights Watch report would prove to be invaluable evidence
Sri Lanka: Repeated Shelling of Hospitals Evidence of War Crimes
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/05/08/sri-lanka-repeated-shelling-hospitals-evidence-war-crimes

[Vehl]

1. Witnesses are being silenced...

Fears grow for safety of doctors who reported civilian slaughter


Fears are growing for the safety of the doctors who acted as the eyes and ears of the world during the Sri Lankan army's final assault on the Tamil Tigers's last stronghold in the north-east of the country.

Doctors Thangamutha Sathiyamoorthy, Thurairaja Varatharajah and V Shanmugarajah, and London-trained administrative officer Vany Kumar, are understood to have been detained by Sri Lankan forces as they tried to escape the fighting on Friday. They have not been heard from since. The Sri Lankan army denies involvement in their disappearance.

The medical staff had provided a running commentary on the slaughter of thousands of civilians trapped inside the so-called "no-fire zone" while the world's media has been shut out of it.

But their reports - carried in the Guardian and the Observer, among other news outlets - have enraged the government in Colombo, which has dismissed them as pawns of the Tamil Tigers.

Last month the health minister, Athula Kahandaliyanage, accused the two most outspoken doctors, Sathiyamoorthy and Varatharajah, of "mouthing the propaganda of the LTTE" and the government has warned that they would face disciplinary action over their allegations that Sri Lankan forces had been shelling civilians.

On Friday, Varatharajah said the medical staff had been forced to abandon the last of the makeshift hospitals still functioning inside the no-fire zone to take cover in a bunker as the fighting intensified around them.

According to UN sources, they later attempted to escape from the area through the Omanthai crossing point and had not been seen since.

UN spokesman Gordon Weiss said: "We believe the doctors came out and we are concerned for their well-being. We are now trying to discover their whereabouts."

A UN official, who declined to be named, said it was hoped that foreign governments would bring pressure to bear on the government in Colombo.


div]

source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/17/tamil-tigers-sri-lanka-doctors

[totodeinhere]

2. I agree that a potential war crimes probe is warranted. But...

the UK seems hypocritical over this issue considering the UK's complicity with war crimes that have been committed in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Why isn't the UK also calling for probes concerning Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Vehl]

3. hypocritical or not...more civilians have died here than in Afghanistan...killed by their own gov

The difference being that a government touting itself to be a democratic one has been killing more civilians in the past 5 months than those killed in both Afghanistan and Iraq put together.

i'm of the opinion that the tile of "democracy" should not be given to countries that blatantly violate Human rights....especially of its own civilians. Its not as if Lanka was not warned...it was warned multiple times..the response from the government has been along the lines of "we do not want lectures from White terrorists" (yep!..believe me..a senior government minister said that.lol)

[totodeinhere]

6. I would be more sympathetic to a call for a war crimes investigation if it came from people who...

have not themselves committed war crimes as the British have. And that in no way condones what the regime in Columbo has done. Also, the Tigers need to be investigated as well for war crimes.

[Vehl]

9. Amnesty International and Human Rights watch have been calling for it for while now

The Amnesty International and Human Rights watch have been calling war crimes/crimes against humanity trials for a while now. The Brits joined the bandwagon only recently.

In its letter to U.N. Security Council members, Amnesty International also calls for a Commission of Inquiry to investigate violations of international law: "The Council must recall, in unambiguous terms, that alleged perpetrators of grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law, including war crimes, must be held individually responsible under international law. Given the mounting evidence of serious violations of international law, the Council should establish a Commission of Inquiry to investigate serious violations by all parties in recent months, or request the Human Rights Council to establish such a Commission."

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGUSA20090513001&lang=e

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/05/08/sri-lanka-repeated-shelling-hospitals-evidence-war-crimes

[totodeinhere]

13. I agree with Amnesty International. And I understand that they want both sides investigated. n/t

[Vehl]

15. yep, both sides should be investigated

testimony/evidence from the NGO's will be vital for these investigations. Its commendable that even though NGO's like Amnestry international and Human rights watch have been banned from the Island by The Lankan government; they have accumulated a wealth of evidence and eyewitness testimony thanks to their tireless effects.

furthermore i also think the massacre of 17 aid workers belonging to the NGO Action Contre La Faim will be one of the cases included in the investigation. The Norwegian SLMM(Srilanka monitoring mission) found the government forces to be responsible for this massacre.

[msongs]

4. where's the UK demand for war crimes trials of the bush gang? nt

[Vehl]

5. i support a trial for that, but that should not blind us to the actions of a genocidal government

while i support a trial of bush and his cohorts, that should not be used as an excuse to prop up/ or explain genocidal governments around the world.

we all knew what happened when the Nazi party held sway in Germany and the rest of the world turned a blind eye to its treatment of its civilians.

[gratuitous]

7. War crimes?

How can there be war crimes if no war has been declared?

Call me cynical, if you must, but I will bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut that you will hear this exact defense proffered on behalf of our very own home-grown war criminals if and when they are ever faced with justice.

[Vehl]

10. crimes against humanity is the term used..i think.

crimes against humanity is the term used..i think.
thats the same one the ex prez of Sierra Leone is facing in at Hague


I think its high time the US joined the ICC

[totodeinhere]

14. You don't need a declared war to have war crimes.

Most present day war crimes such as in the Balkins, Africa, Iraq and Palestine, and now Shri Lanka, have happened without a declared war taking place.

[fujiyama]

8. The Sri Lankan government should be held to account

for its brutal actions against the ethnic Tamils. Media coverage has been very tightly controlled and it's really difficult to get an accurate count of the civilian death toll.

But the UK and US governments calls for war crimes trials will not be seen with legitimacy by much of the world community until the Bush and Blair regimes are also brought to justice for Iraq.

In short, nothing will happen. Like nothing has happened in Darfur or hundreds of other places acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes are taking place. This is meaningless bluster.

[Vehl]

11. very true....the Un is but a league of nations now :(

Every country that can thumb its nose at the UN does so with Impunity, including the Us; for that matter (iraq).
I see a repeat of the travesty of justice that was the league of nations

[dipsydoodle]

12. The number of civilian deaths

surely demonstrate collective punishment which I believe to be a war crime.

[New Dawn]

16. And what about the UK's own war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Northern Ireland?

[InfiniteThoughts]

17. hypocrites

i am surprised that a lot of folks don't see through the hypocrisy of the LTTE fighters. They started this war. They killed tamil political leaders so that they had the exclusive rights to negotiate with the SL govt. They were the first party to walk out of the Norway sponsored cease fire. and now, when their end is near, they are forcing public opinion against the SL govt action. Why did the LTTE have to hold 150,000 Tamils hostage in a 3 sq km land? Why didn't they release these folks when they lost Mullaitivu? While i am sure that there were some transgressions from the SL army in battle, what happens to the transgression of the Tamil Tigers? Why hasn't any MSM spent time in analyzing the terror tactics of the tigers?

Question to all DUers: Did you reject US against Afghanistan in 2001? Why? Didn't you believe that the fight against Taliban/AQ was legitimate? The same is the case between SL govt & LTTE. For crying out loud, LTTE is a banned terrorist organization that has assassinated scores of folks. When they go, i shall shed no tears. I will be happy to see they go. They don't deserve to be saved.

However, my stand on SL Tamils is as clear as crystal. Eliminating the LTTE tigers was the easier task. Ensuring that the age-old problem of Tamils-Sinhalese is addressed through a political process is the more difficult task. I hope Rajapakse has thought through the solution for ending the legitimate fight of the Tamils - right to be treated equal in SL. Else, they are leaving room for another militant organization to take over from the Tigers.

[Vehl]

18. scroll up

if you read the posts above; you would see that the hrw actually called for both sides to be investigated.

But; the tigers are already banned as a terrorist organization whereas the Srilankan government is not.Therin lies the problem. maybe you should ask the same question again, who are the hypocrites? a rebel organization that was rightly banned for its attacks on people OR a government that has killed many times more civilians than the aforementioned "terrorists" did yet are not censured? whats good for the goose is good for the gander.


furthermore i smell a strawman here. Did you see anyone here condoning the actions of the tigers? nope. Lets look at it this way; when a rebel group was "supposedly" holding all those people hostage in such a small area of land; bombarding that area to smithereens; knowing full well that civilians would be the ones who will get killed the most, is akin to.. say...blowing up the Superbowl cos 5 rebels are hiding there. From a logical standpoint it does not make any sense; but from a historical standpoint it makes perfect sense....this is what the Nazis did to the french civilians, whenever there was a partisan attack. Its is called "collective punishment". The Lankan Government's shelling and Ariel bombing of civilians and hospitals too(refer to the HRW report and also the statement by the Lankan defense secretary who clearly stated, on video "Hospitals are legitimate targets!") fall under crimes against humanity/war crimes ctagory, as do many of their previous actions against civilians.


The government claimed that there were 400 rebels hiding amongst nearly 200 000 Civilians; yet it continued bombing and shelling regardless.its actions are proof enough of its intentions.
200 000 civilians, 400 rebels = 500 civilians per rebel....and this insane ratio was ok for the lankan government to blow that area to kingdom come?? its a clear case of state terrorism



As for the "excesses" by the lankan military...it has been well documented for the past 60 years. in fact it was these actions by the military, and the state sponsored pogroms against the Tamils that started the rebellion in the first place. from 1948-late 1970s, there weren't any rebels....yet that did not stop the government from unleashing its periodic pogroms nor did it stop its systemic discrimination...if not for those 30 years of discrimination and brutal suppression of democratic protest, there would not have been any armed militants groups in the first place. The rebels are a symptom of the disease..not the disease.


the srilankan government keeps on parroting "around 70 000 civilians have died in this 25 year civil war"...the actual number is far higher..nearly 150 000. in fact the government was claiming the 70 000 score 15 years back!!...and the civilians casualties have been the highest in the past 15 years....im at a loss to understand how the official civilian death toll remains unchanged. why is the government hiding the numbers?. Why are no journalists or the HRW?amnesty international allowed into SriLanka? Why does the government evict foreighn journalists? One need not be a rocket scientist to know the reason.Furthermore, the civilian death toll attributed to the Rebels pales in comparison with that caused by the government. Srilanka is probably the only country in the world, in recent times when rebels killed more soldiers than Civilians, and the Government killed more civilians than rebels.

hell...in which democratic country can you except the military chief claim that the country belongs to "Sinhala Buddhists, and the minorities should keep that fact in mind"....and get away with it.

Major General Ulf Henricsson of the Norwegian Sri Lanka Monitoring Mission had this to say about the Lankan government's policy
“I have experienced this in the Balkans before. When you're not let in, it's a sign that there's something they want to hide,”


International Criminal court should decide on who gets tried and who does not. Let the law decide the fate of the culprits.

[InfiniteThoughts]

20. in response ..

i was calling LTTE as hypocrites, not anyone else. wanted to make it very clear. I consider the civilian casualties in the books of LTTE. They are the folks who have kept these Tamilians restricted to a infinitely small space. What prevented the LTTE from releasing the civilians?

On the issue of SL govt, how else can the govt fight the LTTE? The LTTE moves into civilian pockets and keeps using them as shield without really caring for civilian casualties, actually, the more the merrier for them. SL govt did try a lot of options - ceasefire, foreign intervention - both politically and military (IPKF). So, how does the SL military flush the LTTE? I don't know if there are better solutions, but i am willing to listen. How can the SL army fight the LTTE in a way that reduces civilian casualties?

[Vehl]

21. factually incorrect

I consider the civilian casualties in the books of LTTE.

There was no Ltte till the late 70s, a full 30 years after Lankas independence..no were there other military groups. Yet There were many state sponsored pogroms and Anti Tamil riots during that 30 years period, resulting in thousands of Tamils getting killed.. I dont get it...why this selective amnesia? you talk as if the government is but responding to the actions of the Ltte while the truth is just the opposite :)


furthermore from 1948 till late 1970s, the Lankan Tamils tried to get back their rights the democratic way.and these democratic protests were put down violently. As violent as the tigers were; they are but a direct result of the crushing of democratic protests for 3 decades by the lankan government. History has shown us that wherever people's democratic aspirations and quest for equality are suppressed; rebellions form.

What prevented the LTTE from releasing the civilians?

what part of my previous post do you not understand? i suggest that you re,read it. the tigers were a banned organization while the lankan government is not. let me ask you this; Will you blow up a building with 500 civilians inside, just cos there is 1 rebel holding them hostage?? (yes..thats the ratio..500:1 in this case). if you would, then you really need to take a look at yourself.

On the issue of SL govt, how else can the govt fight the LTTE?

lol easy!.by being a real democracy! duh

by NOT discriminating against the minorities, by not making their democratically elected MPs "disappear" when those Mp's criticize the government, but not abducting people, torturing them by the thousands ,by not killing journalists who dont toe the government line, by punishing people in the government who openly make racist remarks (like in the recent case of the lankan military chief who said "This country belongs to Buddhist Sinhalese and the minorities should keep that in mind"....in any other democratic country he would have been sacked..but not in lanka, the Government actively defended his statement)and those who have carried out human rights abuses.

why is it so hard for Lank to be a "democracy"? do you really think the Tamils would have supported the continued existence of the tigers if Lanka became a true democracy? nope, hell..the only reason the militant groups formed was the lack of democracy and human rights in Lanka. I'm amused that you would even ask such a question...if you dont mind me telling so...you really need to read up on the causes for the Lankan civil war.

SL govt did try a lot of options - ceasefire, foreign intervention - both politically and military (IPKF).

you are confusing 2 different timeframes, also you have your facts wrong

1 the IPKF was NOT invited by Lanka, the Indian government sent it even though Lanka was opposed to it. get your facts straight pls.
and that was in the late 80s, 20 years ago.

2 the ceasefire of 2002 was NOT offered by the government either; in fact it was the Tiger's who proposed it; after they beat the military conclusively in the north. again, your claim is false

in fact the tigers opted for a federal solution; something the ex president of lanka; Chandrika vehemently opposed(even though the PM was supportive of it). She dismissed the Lankan government and called for new elections.

[oberliner]

19. Tamil Tigers supreme commander Prabhakaran 'shot dead'

The leader of Sri Lanka's Tamil Tiger rebels, Velupillai Prabhakaran, has been killed along with his son and other Tiger commanders, according to reports.

Prabhakaran was ambushed and shot dead while trying to flee government troops as special forces closed in on the last rebel fortifications, it was reported today.

However that account of events was disputed by a military spokesman who said that there had been no identification of Prabhakaran as yet.

The Sri Lankan army killed a number of other senior Tamil Tiger commanders as fighting continued to rage despite the Tigers' weekend admission of defeat.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6309915.ece

[Vidar]

22. The US should be charged first.