Economy: Weak on Surface, Strong Beneath

[rodbarnett]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Orders for pricey U.S. factory goods and new home sales fell in January and initial claims for jobless aid inched up last week, but details in reports on Thursday suggested an economy on a solid footing.

Orders for durable goods -- items meant to last three years or more --dropped 1.8 percent last month as demand for autos and planes weakened, the Commerce Department (news - web sites) said.

The number was sharply at odds with forecasts on Wall Street for a 1.4 percent rise. But a big upward revision to December's figures helped take the sting out of the report.

In addition, orders increased a solid 2 percent excluding the volatile transport category, and numbers in the report suggested business spending would continue to climb.

In a separate report, the department said new single-family home sales slipped 1.7 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 1.106 million last month, the slowest pace since May.

<snip>

"This is not the start of a sustained weakening of the housing market," said Ian Shepherdson, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics. "That will have to wait until there is a big and sustained increase in mortgage rates."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=580&e=2&u=/nm/20040226/bs_nm/economy_dc

comment : i'm a little rusty on my greenspanish! WTF does this report say?

[dArKeR]

1. Orders for durable goods down in January - MSGOP

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4380982/

[I AM SPARTACUS]

39. typo - should read "Economy: Steak on Surface, Wrong Beneath

[mmm]

2. Bull

sound bytes for the masses

[jeter]

3. More BS from the White House

and Congress in order to save their butts.

[hedda_foil]

4. The polite term for this is "doublespeak."

The honest term is "lying."

[54anickel]

16. That would be "Dubya-speak". n/t

[denverbill]

5. Putting lipstick on a pig won't make it Heidi Klum.

Bush (and economists) claim the recession ended in November 2001.

If this is the recovery, I hate to see what the next recession holds.

[willat]

6. Will a Tax increase....

...somehow help the economy???

[Yavin4]

10. Raising Taxes On The Wealthy To Balance The Deficit

sure as hell worked for Clinton in the 90s. The first step on the road to real economic recovery is making sure that the nation's debts and deficits are paid. This gives lenders confidence that you're serious about paying off debt. This sets the stage for real investment and growth.

[kysrsoze]

35. Amen. They need to pay back some of their windfall to fund my retirement

Eat the rich.

[Sagan]

12. Well, the tax cuts and deficits and borrow-and-spend sure hasn't...

Maybe cutting spending across the board will help, but rolling back the tax cuts for the rich will help too.

Confidence in the economy will increase if deficits decrease, I'm convinced. Lord knows, the Chimpy way aint' working.

[reprobate]

19. What would you suggest to cut?

* has cut just about everything he could. All that's left is defense. Of course, getting out of iraq would help. And end the tax cuts. Lower taxes on the wealthy have never worked to help the economy. Unless the economy you refer to is the disposable income of the rich.

[dweller]

13. more likely a tax cut

for the wealthiest 1% will do it in...er i mean, bolster the economy.


dp

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. It's either now or later

It's going to have to be done eventually. The current tax structure is unrealistic and unsustainable. The claim that chimp made in favor of the tax cuts as a stimulus to create jobs has turned out to be just another lie (or perhaps an error?). Since it hasn't worked, the deficit has and will continue to grow as a result. No matter what kind of Rosy picture they are trying to paint about how deficits don't matter, they do and will quickly become a huge problem.


Sniff sniff is that a freeper??

[snippy]

21. Why do so many republicans love their money more than their country?

Tax Cut Monkeys who gleefully assist in the financial rape of their own children and fling their own feces at everyone who suggests a fiscally and ethically responsible government always argue that the reason the US has never had significant economic growth or an improving standard of living is that taxes are too high. Their argument is ignorant and greed based.

The US has prospered with tax rates substantially higher than now. Of course that was during a time when nearly all Americans loved their country and their children more than they loved their money. This is no longer true for many of the 50 million Bush voters.

Tax Cut Monkeys also like to masturbate while noshing Ronald Reagan's feces. But their patron saint of self gratification raised taxes six times while cutting taxes only four times. Much to the chagrin of the Tax Cut Monkeys, the economy did okay.

Tax Cut Monkeys need to stop assisting in the rape of their own children, stop flinging their own feces, and stop masturbating while eating phony fecal matter. They need to become responsible citizens.

[willat]

27. Weil, I like the tax cut...

...and I'm definately NOT rich. I just always heard that higher taxes hurt economic growth, and with the economy as bad as it is, I think raising taxes would put a big hurt on the economy. But, the economy is tough to predict, so maybe a tax increase would help. I don't know if it will help me though, I certainly would have to cut back somewhere to make things work.

[metisnation]

31. long term economic security

we need a sounder philosophy of feduciary spending in this country. Repealing the tax cuts will stop some of the hemoraging. We need to stabilize this out of control deficit spending. It only make long term fiscal sense. by the way welcome to DU!

:toast:

[willat]

32. Then cut spending...

no reason to raise taxes. The less taxes the better, the government just spends too much. Don't come to me with your hat in your hand because you spent to much.

[wellst0nev0ter]

33. Don't Tell Us That

Tell the tax-cut-and-spend Republicans who have increased spending every year they've been in power.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A8763-2003Nov23?language=printer

[Lorien]

34. Do you consider yourself a Patriot?

If so, how do you contribute to your country? The majority of our taxes go to the military; not to the soldiers (Veterans benefits HAVE been cut to help keep taxes for the rich down) but for companies like Halliburtan and Kellogg, Brown and Root (BILLIONS of your tax dollars line their pockets)! I agree that cuts could be made there, but perhaps you would prefer cutting your local police force? How about emergency personnel? Do you like driving on paved roads?

All GREAT civilizations got to be so because of taxation, there's no way around it.You get what you pay for. Countries with some of the lowest taxes around? Afghanistan and Honduras. Maybe you could try one of those countries out for a few years, then let us know if "the less taxes the better" truly is the way to go.

[willat]

42. Hehe

Okay, sure.

"All GREAT civilizations got to be so because of taxation".

This country is great because of many things, but taxation would be on the bottom of the list, if it makes it there at all. FOR SHAME!

[Fovea]

40. Ok

I propose we cut military spending by 75%

We move all military forces back to the US to defend our shores, borders, and airways. Stock up on conventional arms for conventional defence.

No need to raise taxes, just cut all business subsidies.
In specific, force everyone who cashed out on American Airlines on 9-10 to forfeit their entire incomes, pending investigation.

[wickerwoman]

41. Don't come to me with your hat in your hand

when your roads are so full of potholes your tires all blow and you can't get a bus because public transportation was slashed and a schizophrenic man who was turned out of his institution for lack of bed space robs you on the walk home and the police are too busy with all the murders to help you and you house catches on fire, your kids can't get jobs because they only went to school five hours a day for 50 days a year and grandma can't help much with childcare because she can't afford her medications. No one in your family can breathe and everyone has cancer because unregulated pollution clogs your air and water. Oh yeah, and then China invades.

Your taxes pay for something, whether you appreciate it or not but I'm betting you won't until the wolves are at _your_ door.

[willat]

43. I said cut spending...

not elimate it. A little overboard with that outlook. I don't mind paying taxes, I just mind when I pay too much taxes. Right now, it's a little too much.

[wickerwoman]

45. Well, schools in Oregon are closing early for lack of funding,

the tent cities full of homeless and mentally ill people who have nowhere to go (which was disbanded in the mid-90s) is back in full force in the gully across the street from where I live. Firemen and policemen are being laid off left and right (and the rest of them were called up with their National Guard units to Iraq or Afghanistan). Public transportation in Washington State has been gutted- buses run a few times a day instead of a few times an hour. Crime is up, suicides are up, unemployment and homeleseness are up. But you're paying "a little too much" in taxes? Well, the conservatives got one label right- my heart is frickin' bleeding.

[prolesunited]

46. Just curious

What programs do you think we should reduce or eliminate?

[kysrsoze]

36. OK, Willat. I'm taking this as an honest question, but....

26 posts? Typically this type of talk comes from Freeper plants. Regardless, there is a simple answer. Tax the rich. The CEO of my company made over $100M in the past three years, while the company's stock has dropped by about 40%. Our stock options are worthless. He gets stock grants.

The rich should and will pay. They've gotten the benefits of too many tax shelters, insider trading (they all do it), etc., for long enough.

[willat]

44. Taxes, taxes, taxes...

Hey, I'm not rich, just don't over tax me, that's all I want. Governments always seem to end up working opposite of how most people function. They spend like crazy, then want us to pay the bill. What would our bosses say if we wanted them to cover our bills because we spent too much?

[trogdor]

47. Check his profile.

He says he's from the PR of New Jersey. That says it all.

[Fovea]

38. Compare the value of the Euro

Comprised of highly progressive tax systems and policies that support the average citizen.

To the Dollar of Enron America, where the CEOs make ludicrous amounts of money, and working families do without the luxuries like health or higher education.

[Fovea]

37. Partially.

A restoration of progressivity would not fix what has happened
to those below the 50% percentile in wages.

But coupled with the incredible relief that a single payer
universal health care system, the reduction of the deficit
that restored progressivity in the tax system would give us, as well as the end of using the military as a tool of resource extraction certainly
get us a good peice down the road to recovery.

The rest of it would require an entire re-think on how and what we globalize. And man, do we need that 6 months ago-- no, make that 2 years ago.

[xxqqqzme]

7. I know the housing market

here in SoCal has just about reached the top of the roller coaster climb. $545,000 4 a 3bdrm/2ba, 30' X 60' lot in this tract is INSANE!

[radfringe]

Weak on Surface, Strong Beneath...yeah right....

the problem is that the "Surface" is about 3,000,000 lost jobs deep

[CaptainClark23]

8. High Frequncy Economics?!

Issat something having to do with picking up on economic indicators that only dogs can hear and makes them howl in the night?

what a load of bullshit. Love the bit about "revision of December's figures" helping take the sting out...how fecking convenient...gotta love these upward revisions.

economic indicators either don't get released or revised so much as to be absolutely meaningless. its a shell game and we're all the mark.

[Skittles]

9. lol........................greenspanish

good one

[Beetwasher]

11. Every Report is Bad

Durbable goods down, when the expected and increase. Factory orders down, when they expected an increase. Home sales down sharply, unexpectedly. Jobless claims up, again, moving the average up, again. Consumer confidence down, sharply.

But everythings great! Really! Just ignore all the numbers and listen to the happy talk!

[tom_paine]

18. Exactly. It's all creepily Soviet

"Toilet Paper Production is up 600% this year, Comrades!"

Which is as I view Bushevik reports written by incresingly castrated and corrupted organizations now run by the people who wish them destroyed in almost all cases.

[Rex]

14. Who does the "upward revisions"?

Same guy that wants to label making a McBurger as manufacturing and not service?

Same old bullshit - different day.

[llmart]

17. These people must think we're all a

bunch of freaking idiots. "Weak on the surface, but strong beneath". How far beneath? So far that we can't even see how strong it is. Yeah, that's the ticket. Get your shovels out and keep digging - maybe you'll find those economic strengths along with your weapons of mass destruction.

[reprobate]

20. The public demands the administration commits seppuku.

At least an educated public would demand it. Guess that's their purpose in destroying the education system.

[louis-t]

22. It says: blah, blah, blah, vote for bush, blah, blah...

by the way, Greenspanish? Ha! Good one! Never heard that before.

[w4rma]

23. WTF. Strong for who? Billionares? Orwellian crap. (n/t)

[Dover]

24. It's the other way around......strong on the surface, weak beneath.

At least that seems to be the assessment of many who have looked beneath the hype of our economic health.

[snippy]

26. I think you may be right.

The improvement in the economy so far has been the result of incredible government stimulus of a size and scope never seen before. That stimulus includes near record low short term interest rates set by the Fed, longer term interest rates at or near 40 or 50 year lows strongly and constantly influenced by the Fed through public comments, a huge increase in the money supply since January 2003, record deficit spending by the federal government last year and this year, a decline in the dollar of around 30%, and the Bush tax cuts.

The effects of much of this massive stimulus are already in the economy. But none of it can be repeated and most can not be sustained for too many more months, especially the low interest rates. The pace of growth resulting from all the stimulus already may be slowing. And there is very little to drive job creation to keep the economy growing at a sustainable pace. If the Fed loses control of the bond market things could get very ugly very quickly.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. Another plate load of fresh steaming poop.

[0007]

29. One more plate load of "hot" fresh delicious yummy stinking poop...

for the repukes to eat.

[freeforall]

28. Does anyone actually believe this horsesh*t? eom

.

[Melsky]

30. Only those who really, really want to

not anyone who is thinking though. But there will always be those who believe anything the bush admin tells them because he's a good Christian Patriotic American.

Or people who are just plain stupid I guess.