Gasoline supplies likely to shrink, prices rise (Gas Shortages)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-02-25-gasprices_x.htm

Motorists face gasoline shortages as well as record prices the next few weeks because of the skintight U.S. refining and distribution network.

The vulnerability of that network, combined with low inventories of both gasoline and the crude oil from which it's made, have the government and energy experts increasingly nervous that some places in the USA will run out of gas temporarily. An accident that has disrupted shipping on the Mississippi River and in the Gulf of Mexico could trigger shortages this week.

"It looks like the big bulk terminals in Florida are going to run out in the next few days," Tom Kloza, analyst at the Oil Price Information Service, said Wednesday. Big gasoline suppliers were warning their customers of imminent Florida shortages and reduced allocations, he said. The Coast Guard said it had reopened some of the channel Wednesday, but a backlog of ships remained.

"The U.S. gasoline supply system is not 'just-in-time' delivery; it's 'a-minute-too-late' delivery," Kloza says. The river disruption "underscores how hand-to-mouth the supply system is. ... It's a preview of the kinds of things that can happen in spades" as demand rises in the spring and summer driving season.

[CaptainClark23]

1. tick, tick, tick, tick, tick......n/t

[Mithras61]

2. But... but... but...

I thought Iraq was going to be supplying us with all the oil we could handle! What about THAT, Chimpy?


Gee, maybe pissing off OPEC wasn't such a good idea after all!

[bushisanidiot]

3. But, 550 of our servicement died for cheap gas! Oh, no cheap gas? OOPSIE!

what the fuck was this war for??? the american people (and the world) deserves a non-spun answer, president dipshit!!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Helluva collage.

[RoadRunner]

4. This is only the beginning

World oil production has already peaked, or will within the next year or two, depending on who you believe. That means less crude, on average, entering the market every year from now on. Add to that a "president" who said "We need an energy bill that encourages comsumption" (2002), growing anti-American sentiment in OPEC countries, greed, and a fragil economy that depends on oil for its very survival, and you have a very big mess.

Here's a Saudi saying, as quoted in Richard Heinberg's "The Party's Over":

"My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet airplane. His son will ride a camel."

[brokensymmetry]

15. I got the book!

Thank you for giving me additional motivation to go ahead and read it.

I suspect that the peak has already hit...and that really does change everything...

[RoadRunner]

18. You're right, it does change everything.

It's a scary read, but well worth it.

[StClone]

5. SUV Conservatives are unafraid

They functional on hot air and Oxycotin.

[BiggJawn]

6. Ahhh...We finally have the proper ratio...

Of on-line to off-line refineries. Now we can cry "Gas Shortage!" while we collect subsidies for all those idle plants we have.
Great idea our friends in the Natural Gas Industry passed on to us!

<overheard at an Oil-Baron's reception>

[bahrbearian]

7. How much Oil does our military use every day?

[Bdog]

8. Bush the Lesser

I don’t know when the world will reach peak oil or if it has.

The United Stats reached peak oil production decades ago.

We import 60% of our oil from overseas.

Clinton and the first Bush managed to keep the price of oil low and stable by keeping the Middle East stable.

With what Bush the Lesser has done, I don’t think the price will be low and stable for a long time. It doesn’t matter if the world reaches peak oil next year or ten years form now. The damage is done.

[hatrack]

9. Actually, it hit 63% for 2003, according to IEA

Which is the highest it's ever been, particularly when compared with 1973, at the time for the first oil shock, when we imported 28% of total oil used.

[jus_the_facts]

10. To HELL with GASOLINE and the damn pimps who keep US hooked on it......

....this is good news....at least a few combustion volcanos will be extinguished for a short while....we all stand by....so guilty ourselves of funding the enviornmental destruction of our planet.... sayin' we're against using this resource but continuing to fund their control over us....acting like it's all their fault...but never taking a STAND and STOP USING THEIR PRODUCTS alltogether once and for all............guess our progressive ideals are a load of SHIT....let's just keep givin' OPEC all the control and money they can take...til it's all gone...our enviornment....and any *decent* livable future along with it!!! :crazy:

[BiggJawn]

13. OK, so you'll be by in the morning with your rickshaw...

...to take me to work? Hope you eat a GOOD brekkie, 'cuz it's almost a 20-mile pull, with a coupla bitch hills in there.

Not everyone in the world who uses gasoline uses it for fuckin' around with their moto-toys.

[jus_the_facts]

23. yeah well there are ALTERNATIVE fuel sources to concider ya know...

....all kinds of DIFFERENT...NON POLLUTING ways we could be getting around besides using COMBUSTION engines....this has been known for decades yet we're still using FOSSIL FUELS like there IS NO tomorrow...regardless of *moto toys* for work purposes too...THERE IS NO EXCUSE when the technology has existed to end our dependance on it for DECADES yet we still suckin' on that OPEC teet and fuckin' up the environment in the process!

[BiggJawn]

28. So I guess you won''t be picking me up TODAY.

Sorry, I don't have an electric vehicle, and the corner fuel store doesn't seem to have any ethanol or hydrogen. I'd use it if it was here, but it's NOT. and there is no public transport here, either.

We may have Star-Trek-style transporter beams some day, too, but what does that do TODAY?

You scream at us that we need to pry our lips off the "OPEC Teat" but you're really short on PRACTICAL solutions.

I suppose you hitched up the Burley to your Klein and pedalled your way to the computer factory to pick up the box you're using to post here?
Sure you did.

[jus_the_facts]

37. whatever YOU say....

....there are all kinds of PRACTICAL solutions that've been known to exist long before TODAY and you know it....funny how simple it is to use excuse after excuse to keep on with the status quo isn't it....and much easier to bitch and moan about how it's just easier to keep on doin' like we've always done....fuck the future...who CARES! And I never excused m'self from being part of the problem either....I said ALL OF US...and without a GOV'T to FORCE us to do better then I guess we never will. :P

[NickB79]

14. Look around you and consider everything made from oil

This is a really good way to really realize just how oil-dependent our culture has become, not just by our vehicles, but our entire way of life. Look at all the plastics around you, plastic is used EVERYWHERE now. Medicines are synthesized from oil (its nothing more than a long carbon chain anyways). Houses are heated with fuel oil. Cargo ships and airliners are fueled by petroleum-derived fuel. Semi-trailers vital to transporting goods across the country require diesel fuel.

In short, a serious oil shortage will have dire consequences throughout every aspect of our way of life, not just for those driving SUV's. We're all in for quite a ride, no one is exempt.

[jus_the_facts]

25. plastics can be RECYCLED...bet there's enough in the LANDFILL...right now.

...that another barrel of oil wouldn't need be produced to continue ALL our plastic fetishes....and there are all sorts of engines that can be produced that don't run on FOSSIL FUEL....but all the corporations that depend on it...refuse to allow these alternatives to be produced....the argument that it's IMPOSSIBLE to LIVE without OIL is just another illusion that's being perpetrated on us by the powers that be!

[NickB79]

34. Yes, they can be recycled

But recovery is not 100%. Without new oil available to synthesize new plastics, we would be recovering less and less plastic each year. You also need to use energy to dig up the landfills, transport the plastics, and melt them down. At the same time, there is a massive and growing demand for more plastic in our society. You would need to begin synthesizing plastics from biomass sources, but that requires you to devote cropland to biomass instead of food. You also need an energy source to drive the reactions, so more than likely we'll need to build more nuclear reactors.

I'm not saying its impossible to live without fossil fuels. With nuclear, solar, wind, and biomass available, we could wean ourselves off of it with a minimum of social upheaval. The problem is that the days of oil shortages are approaching much too fast to deal with now. Maybe if we'd started planning ahead 20 yrs ago, really invested in an oil-independent society with the same ferocity we invested in the space program in the 1960's, we'd be much more capable of handling Peak Oil. But as it is now, its really, really gonna hurt us all badly, because we have only grown more dependent on oil since the 70's, not less.

[jus_the_facts]

36. yeah the same ol' song and dance.....we just gotta DEAL with it.....

...somehow...one day maybe....when we coulda been DEALIN' with it for a long time before now.....and all those things you mentioned...just THINK of the jobs that could be created and the NEW money generated by all kinds of new..more invironmental friendly industry that would make that happen...it's not impossible....the ones who're in control just put it all into their own context to keep things the way they are now.....we'll all be very sorry...soon...there's no doubt!

[NickB79]

38. I suggested ways to deal with it

Such as solar, wind, biomass, nuclear power, all ways to replace our current oil dependency. I think you're seeing an argument that doesn't exist here. I'm not saying that we shouldn't deal with it, I'm saying that its going to be MUCH harder to deal with it now that we're so close to Peak Oil. What problem is there stating the obvious?

[Ruby Romaine]

11. do you think * wants the price to go up--- then down in october?

along w/bringing out Osama?

[Solon]

12. The only way to do that, is to release the Strategic Reserves

The U.S. Government cannot control the price of oil and the most they can do is a short-term drop in price by releasing the Strategic Reserves. However, they cannot do that, they need it for the Oil Wars that are going to take place around the world, to secure US security in the near future.

[BiggJawn]

16. I'm buying extra bicycle tyres now.

I have 3 spare sets and new skins on everything....

[yellowcanine]

19. Another blow to election chances of *

One of the major factors which defeated Jimmy Carter in 1980 was the memory of high gas prices and gas lines in 1979. Bush has high gas prices now and by this summer may have the gas lines...even if things return to normal by November this may be the proverbial straw which breaks his back.

[fortyfeetunder]

24. Oh, oh, an ANWR exploration minute...

Think * is going to seek an emergency ANWR drilling project?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

20. Premium is up to $2.00 a gallon at some stations in the Seattle area.

It was that high in L.A. where I was at the begining of this month so I imagine it's even higher down there now.

I've heard predictions gas could cost as much as $3.00 a gallon by summer. All the queer bashing in the world ain't going to save G DUHbya from this.

[Barkley]

26. Oil of L.A.

Regular is $2.26 and premium is $2.46 and rising fast in Pasadena.

The SUV drivers here must be hurting, long commutes and congested freeways only burn gas faster.

SoCal refineries will switch to summer blend in spring. This involves temporarily shutting down some refineries. This will in turn drive gas prices even higher.

Meanwhile Gov. Arnold is talking out against gay marriage and amending the constitution so that he can run for president but he has nothing to say about gas prices or the ongoing grocery workers' strike.

[Nihil]

29. Still a long way to go yet!

Yesterday at a "normal" garage (i.e., not a cut-price supermarket nor
a middle-of-nowhere rural garage):

79p / litre
= £3.59 / UK gallon
= £3.00 / US gallon
= $5.55 / US gallon

(Using 4.54 litres to 1 UK gallon, 1.2 US gallon to 1 UK gallon and
£1 = $1.85)

My maths (or approximations) might be out but I reckon you've still
got quite a way to go before people give up buying petrol ...

Nihil

[Barkley]

35. A real long way to go ...

London Underground Lines:
Bakerloo
Central
Circle
District
East London
Jubilee
Metropolitan
Northern
Piccadilly
Victoria
Waterloo & City

L.A. Metro Lines:
Gold
Red
Blue
Green

[leesa]

21. Well so be it then. If Americans will not stop their selfish joyride

because of their greed, then it will stop despite their greed.

[rfkrocks]

22. gas lines, no social security, etc

gas lines, no social security, war without end, feudalistic tax structure,debt without end, no jobs-man this just doesn't seem good in a big way. I smell 1960s instability -how do you think the people will react if there are gas lines?-i went thru the 1970s but i think it would be a lot worse now meaning people's behavior under stress.

[Barkley]

27. We need another 'Great American Gas Out'. But this time...

May be the folks at Moveon.org could help organize it
nationwide.

Perhaps we should boycott only one or a few oil companies at a time. Or maybe a "rolling boycott" across the nation.

We've got to send a message that we reject corporate greed.
The U.S. Government needs to make sensible and sustainable energy policies.

According to one of the earlier DU posts, in 1973 we imported about 28% of our oil now its 63%.

And we're more dependent on middle eastern oil than ever before.

In 1973, we had no troops in the middle east, today we're in Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan and probably other oil rich countries too.

That's just plain stupid policy!

[ChiefHappyButt]

30. another link - 7 cent jump overnight

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~1977029,00.html

from the 24th

[KeepItReal]

31. No mention at all about the real problem: O-P-E-C

The OPEC cartel cuts production in order to arificially raise prices (A.K.A. "GOUGING"), and Bush & Co. doesn't do a dang dang thing....

Check this out:

"Algiers: OPEC has sought to strengthen its grip on world oil markets by announcing production cuts, aggressively displaying its desire to maintain oil prices at their highest sustained level in two decades.

Oil prices jumped in response, rising more 3 per cent in New York, to $US33.87 ($43.49) a barrel

...

Economists said the production cut, while unlikely to push prices up enough to damage the US economy, could dampen the recovery.

"Generally, lower oil prices are better for the economy than higher prices," said Joel Prakker, a St Louis consultant. "That said, oil at $US33 a barrel is not the end of the economy. It just means it won't grow as fast as if prices were falling or were $US20."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/11/1076388438683.html?from=storyrhs

[myomy]

32. Maybe this is a Rove thing to have * swagger in next October of so

and make a "divine intervention" with his oil buddies and cut gas prices maybe in half "for the good of the country" ? I read recently that Exxon/Mobile made about(?) 26 Billion net profit for 2003. Wonder if anybody got skimmed?

[undergroundpanther]

33. The real problem... work...,

People don't work near where they live anymore.
Because of "suburbia" and the fact suburbanites would rather drive to work than ride public transport we got this problem.
Suburbia separates home,grocery stores ,school and work far away from each other. We have vast tracts of land full of homes you can't walk anywhere.It is designed fort cars the unsaid assumption is you own cars.
It creates a comforting illusion in the minds of scared parents that suburbia keeps the poor,the "riff raff" out.It separates"good wholesome folk from all that white flight runs away from.It keeps the unsightly poor sequestered in the city or in those'bad areas'.When in reality the geographical isolation,cultural mono-culture,materialism and elitism of suburbia is a bad place to bring up kids. Kids in suburbia go to the city to get drugs to escape life in suburbia because they are,unhappy lonely latchkey kids where activity is feast or famine more often than not.Parents don't have time to cook dinner anymore..So who has time? work,work,work...

Now public transportation in cities too often is service made for the rich,to help them avoid parking costs.The routes are unequally done.
Here in Baltimore there is an expensive efficient light rail system made for stadium goers and businesspeople in the rich areas to come to the city for sports or to go to the airport or other"cultural sites" like the Meyerhoff.
But just try to get a bus to certain poor areas you have to transfer sometimes 3 times and it can take up to 3 hours to get around in the less "desirable" areas of town.

Until people demand public transportation and insist there be a change in town planning,and start demanding mixed zoning, supporting hometown shops instead of wal mart,insist their work be closer to home(whatever happened to telecommuting? Got outsourced?).They will have to drive these senseless long commutes. It is hard to insist people's work be closer to home when jobs that are not toxic are sequestered into large expansive business parks full of empty space for"aesthetics" and competition and ego rules out settling for'less'

Someday people will have to face the fact car companies have used town councils and exploited the sick human desire for status and the appearance of wealth to control how we live. The corporates have used the unspoken bigoted separatist motives of suburban whites who want the appearance of 'good neighborhoods' without putting effort into creating a good neighborhood by being involved and putting time and effort into cooperating and interacting with the community they live in personally. People have had their families scattered across the globe chasing jobs.Nobody has "roots" where they live anymore. Business has created this confusion to equate the appearance of wealth as shorthand for good community and we were duped.All the striving for"elitism" and the belief that home is a castle for the"owner" was used by car companies,oil companies,to craft our living environment around a 'need' for their products.
And we are the ones made slaves.

I think a good first step would be to change zoning to make car free living,accessible and possible.Stop developers who propose building huge cul-de-sac housing areas,stop building huge isolated malls with huge chain stores and learn instead to rely more on individually owned corner stores and local farmer's markets.
Until enough suburbanites get pinched enough to get off their high horses and realize living near others in close proximity like city life is closer to what living sustainable is,and that we all need public transport well...

People will guzzle gas until the gas runs out than there will be riots and a rush to settle where people know each other. Because people are oblivious to what is happening to them really.They are too busy going to work sucking up to get money,to pay off endless debts,shuttling the kids everywhere,shopping,driving..stress..to take the time to be politically involved in local issues like zoning. They don't see the trap being set.

WE truly are slaves who have been misled to think we are free.
Unions are but one piece of solving the corporate exploitation of humanity puzzle.
We call ourselves"free" yet we can't even decide how our own homes or towns are built yet we go into debt buying huge expensive cheaply made houses with no trees or places to do anything else nearby and we work long hours for the appearance of wealth as if that is happiness.. We do what we are told to do even when there are sound alternatives to buying a house in the 'burbs,because we don't want to think,risk going into the unknown or upset the staus quo. Reality is there are time tested ways to build houses in a way that is less harmful and expensive (like Cobb houses in Europe that are 400 years old are made of Cobb which is an earth house) Cobb houses are not recognized by the state as a legit form of building(and profits from Cobb as an industry would be impossible because dirt,grass and clay are everywhere and if you own the plot,it's free.)

Town planners favor industry (lumber,developers etc) over meeting the people's needs for homes that are cheap..and the reality that you can make your house out of something cheaper and stronger than wood...dirt clay straw,plaster..You can make a nice energy efficient home out of Cobb much cheaper than the expensive flimsy houses the developers sell.

Until enough people realize the governments favor industry and landlords over people..shit,favor profit over reality we will be right where we are until we take control over our own choices and resist exploitation.

A gas shortage could be an opportunity as could a job loss and masses of debts going unpaid..to change this'system' that exists to keep the rich rich and industry in control over people's lives forever.]
It really all depends on us.The elites, the industries, the rich,the powerful..all are extremely dependent upon the people to go along with what they want. What if we didn't obey and instead took control over town planning public transport and demanded a return to small business craftsmanship and a more sustainable way of life without big corporations,cars and suburbs?

[metisnation]

39. got my honda

360T all fired up and ready to go..when using moderate acceleration I get 60+m.p.g. woo hoo.

[General Discontent]

40. Great points....

Excellent points UGP..... I agree with everything you say. The "Wonder of Capitalism" is certainly going to be failing us very shortly.

Personally, I have been riding a bicycle everywhere most of my life, and will continue to do so until I finally get run over (again) and killed by some SUV driving bonehead racing to get to their own spiritual demise......

There are so many guns out there that people are going to start killing each other when they get "scared" and "desperate." Since we live in a fear-based consumptive society, I predict that time is not far away.

I have been taught about the wonder of unfettered capitalism, and that Adam Smith taught us about the "invisible hand" of the market,and that the invisible hand was going to take care of us. What irony, then, is that it turns out the invisible hand is giving us all the middle finger



DWolfman

[tobius]

41. ok- I'm gonna say it. on just about every issue,news item, recent event

etc..etc.. on one thread relating to oil and oil production, ie.. gas prices . bush is a complete moron and this is the issue that will sink him. next thread on item ( choose a topic and replace oil/gas, just using this for an example )the evil genius bush (or rove) and his evil cabal has this diabolical plan passed down to them from prescotts ghost and the "deviously brilliant" skull and bones team to manipulate the media , big business and your own eyes so everyone will vote for him.( and if they don't there's always bbv )

All I'm asking for is some discussion that doesn't always involve elaborate doomsday scenarios or some proof that bushies brain is the size of a raisin.

thanks, off my chest now.