Teen Commits Suicide Due to Bullying: Parents Sue School for Son's Death

[brentspeak]

Source: ABC News

Family Wants No Money but Insists School Address Bullying and Three Other Suicides
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES
April 2, 2009

Eric Mohat, 17, was harassed so mercilessly in high school that when one bully said publicly in class, "Why don't you go home and shoot yourself, no one will miss you," he did.

In a federal lawsuit, the parents of Eric Mohat allege that their son committed suicide after being tormented by bullies at his Mentor, Ohio, High School. They say the school knew about the bullying and failed to protect their son.

...

The lawsuit -- filed March 27, alleges that the quiet but likable boy, who was involved in theater and music, was called "gay," "fag," "queer" and "homo" and often in front of his teachers. Most of the harassment took place in math class and the teacher -- an athletic coach -- was accused of failing to protect the boy...

The Mohats also claim that bullying was a "significant factor" in the deaths of three other students in Eric Mohat's class in 2007. Mentor high school officials confirmed that a girl and two other boys in Eric's class had killed themselves in 2007.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=7228335&page=1

---

Suburban bullies and their upscale parents who apparently groom their little angels to be the overlords of tomorrow; teachers who turn a blind eye to harrassment in the classroom. Some things never change.

[midnight]

1. Could not of said it better my self! Bullies today, overlords tomorrow.

Suburban bullies and their upscale parents who apparently groom their little angels to be the overlords of tomorrow; teachers who turn a blind eye to harrassment in the classroom. Some things never change.

[undergroundpanther]

7. It has been years since I

Was in school.Strangely the bullies faces are blocked from my memory,but their names I do remember,and I wish still to find them and beat them senseless for what they did to me sometimes.Maybe their faces are blocked from my mind because of the rage I still feel and still desperately try to contain.
Therapy sometimes becomes so painful, it's like going back into hell..

[8 track mind]

19. i went throught the same thing as you

And i felt the same rage. It took a suicide attempt to get me to face it and deal with it. The biggest help for me was not therapy, but the Martial Arts. I have done 4 years of Taekwondo and one year of American Karate. I'm slowly making my way to black belt. The Martial Arts helped me deal with all of the rage that was bottled up inside of me. I would be more than happy to talk to you about it if you wish. You are not alone! :hug:

[AlbertCat]

28. but the Martial Arts

I found out in public school that adults don't like fags either. But the "fun" really started when Mummy and Daddy sent their son off to jock prep-school in VA....where I learned 24 hour a day humiliation. I still cannot have a trusting relationship with anyone (but the cat) and I unconsciously approach every situation is if I'm am unwelcome. Knowing about these neuroses does not make them go away.

Anyway....thank heavens for Bach & Mozart & Gauguin & Vermeer & Shakespeare & O'Neill &.....otherwise I would have killed myself. (Actually I contemplated it maybe 2 or 3 times....but figured if I wasn't around then nothing GOOD could happen to me.)

[AlexDeLarge]

106. and Tennessee Williams.

I loved reading him when I was growing up. I'm sure my father had thoughts that I was gay. I'm not, but the realisation that there were others, even though they were fictional, that felt the same way. Even though I'm a male, I know Amanda and her Glass Menagerie all too well.

[gauguin57]

161. I'm here for ya!

... signed, gauguin57

[8 track mind]

188. woah!

"But the "fun" really started when Mummy and Daddy sent their son off to jock prep-school in VA....where I learned 24 hour a day humiliation."

Man that must have been truly traumatizing to you! It's a wonder your still with us. I hated sports then and i still hate sports to this day. I still can't throw or catch a football if my life depended on it, but in high school, that's all that mattered. If you couldn't play sports, then you were just simply a pile of shit.

[reggie the dog]

50. slayer, pantera

heavy metal helped me with the rage

[The Doctor.]

72. Skinny Puppy.

Slayer and Pantera are great, but if I try to work out with it I get hurt. :p

[reggie the dog]

52. your method was p^robably better than mine

I drank and did lots and lots of drugs, still got on the honor roll, but I sold weed so that I could always be high at school.

[8 track mind]

184. I almost went down that path myself.

I know several kids that did and a few transgressed from pot into harder drugs. I know of two that drank themselves to death before they were 30.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

150. So did I

No physical violence, but lots of emotional bullying from the Heathers. It made me afraid to trust anyone for a long time, because on several occasions, people had pretended to be friendly only to turn on me. Of my two brothers, one fit into the high school culture pretty well, but the other was taunted as a "fag" and "queer" (even though he's straight) because he played the piano. Even the teachers ragged on him about why a solidly built guy like him was playing the piano instead of football.

My refuges were reading, music, writing, and planning imaginary world travels. Fortunately, the worst of the bullies were gone by the time I reached college, and I began the process of healing, but I'd say it took the entire four years before I could stop feeling that someone was out to get me.

When I was in graduate school, I found that nearly everyone I knew had been bullied and at the bottom of the social heap in high school, and always for being interested in something besides sports, pop culture, and partying. Graduate school was almost a sheltered workshop for former bullying victims.

Bullying has a real fascist edge to it as it targets the non-conforming and the weak. There have been articles about it in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune lately, and in the online comments section, it's the usual right-wing suspects who defend bullying, especially bullying of GLBT youth, as "a normal part of childhood" and "a way of toughening weak kids up." According to the right-wingers, it's the victims' fault, because they don't "fight back." (I'm not sure how I should have "fought back" against girls who were indulging in sneaky forms of emotional bullying.)

No, Bozo, bullying doesn't "toughen kids up." Sometimes it sends them into deep depression, poisons their ability to get along with people, and even drives them to suicide.

[tavalon]

168. I'm always amazed at people who miss their high school years

I would rather drink battery acid than ever go back there. Yuck.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

286. Do they miss high school - or being a teenager?

I don't really miss my high school, it was a bit of a dump and the biggest thing that happened the entire time I was there was the school got stood up by Nancy Reagan and the "We Don't Have To Take Our Cloths Off" guy because the secret service was needed to take some dictators kids to Disneyland.

I would love to go back to being ~15 to ~20, but not to repeat high school - those were great years for me for alot of reasons - my twenties sucked.

[imdjh]

290. Many people want to go back to being a teenager BUT, they want to go knowing what they know now. nt

[sarcasmo]

288. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

273. ...

:hug:

[varkam]

2. FOUR suicides in less than two years?

Cripes. I hope they win the civil suit, and I hope they win BIG damages.

[Summermoondancer]

26. Yeah and I hope that coach loses his job and his license to teach.

[JerseygirlCT]

212. Ditto. nt

[Deja Q]

252. Thrown in jail for negligence or at least reevaluating what the hell these people are supposed to do

x(

[Supersedeas]

193. stunning

[progressivebydesign]

280. Suicides amongst teens happen in clusters... and 4 in the past few years is not a huge number.

If it were my child that committed suicide, I think I'd look at why I missed their undiagnosed depression issues. I was bullied as was my sister... not once did it ever occur to me to kill myself. There are underlying issues... but I wish that school would do yearly DEPRESSION screenings for all the kids. This would help with the cutting and the suicides.

[rainbow4321]

282. My city had 9 teen suicides in 14 months...

It was back in the 80's...we moved here in 1995 and it the phrase "suicide capital of the country" was STILL being brought up (well thru the end of the 90's) whenever people referred to Plano (Texas) as if it were happening right then---can't count how many times me and other Plano-ites had to say "um, that was 10+ years ago".
By the time people stopped referring to our area as that, we had a long string of heroin overdoses...so, yes, then we became the "heroin capital" :(

[HughBeaumont]

3. Menturd, Ohio.

One of many of Northeast Ohio's redneck/Hitler-youth-breeding suburbs (see Strongsville, North Royalton, Aurora, Bay Village, Vermillion and Brunswick). Plenty of stories like this one; I lived it and so did many others. When I was a freshman, a girl tormented by bullies committed suicide in her garage. Is it any wonder when I tore apart my basement with a sledgehammer, I thought of former classmates with each hit to this day?

Sometimes, you just can't turn it on and off like a light switch and forgive and forget.

[Berry Cool]

67. And if you think THAT's bad, try the small rural towns.

I won't specify which in Lake County I refer to, but you can probably guess. The kind with schools so small that everyone knows everyone else, everyone has their social pecking order, and that order does NOT change, EVER.

[HughBeaumont]

87. Same names for years, same victimizers for years.

Gee, sounds like Vermilion (Vermilion's in Erie County, though). Small wonder why I moved the hell out of that podunk pile.

[juno jones]

138. Exactly why I don't live in my hometown in IL.

Last time I was back there was about 15 years ago. Nothing had changed except me.

[YOY]

124. Growing up in Brunswick I saw it all.

I have a tough time forgetting and a tougher time forgiving as well. Just thinking for a few minutes brings up nothing but bad memories.

My home fry Warner getting "Nigger Go Home" painted on his garage.

Getting called "Faggot Jew Boy" by some local HS football player while working a county summer job. Supervisors did nothing but clap him on the back. Funny thing is I'm neither gay nor Jewish.

One of the hottest funniest (and quite smart too) girls I've ever known be reigned in by a abusive skin head boyfriend...two beautiful black eyes.

Kicks to the stomache and groin by multiple peers in middleschool while pig-faced and irresponsible parents did nothing.

A chubby dorky kid I knew of went home one day to find his mother dead, hanging in the garage. He had to cut her down himself. They still teased him relentlessly afterwards. I think about that guy sometimes. I hope he turned out happy. He defined "unhappy teenage years" to me. That poor guy.

and that's just scratching the surface, I don't want to go back. Not ever. Not ever. My wife wonders why I have nightmares sometimes.

It was not a huge surprise when Palin and McCain stopped in Strongsville and some of the racism that came from mouths there was heard.

[MUAD_DIB]

131. You're neither gay nor Jewish, but that doesn't stop the "Joe Football" idiot

from saying it, and that shows a few things.


1. He's an ignorant fucker.

2. He's an ignorant, scared, racist fucker.

3. He'll still be that way in 20 years: wasting away his crappy little life thinking of his "Glory" football years.

[YOY]

140. I have googled his name. Medina County Football star. Can't find him anywhere.

I guess that means the really disappeared. No shock. Partially it makes me think he dissapeared into a world of Meth and jailtime.

I never corrected him. You can't fix stupid.

And yes, he was a huge fucking racist.

[HughBeaumont]

145. Nor is it a surprise that the McCains/Palins of the world embrace "small town values".

We're not talking the Rockwell paintings of the barber shop, candy shop and quaint older houses. Connotatively, that means the embrace and acceptance of racism, sexism, male supremacy, homophobia, exclusivity, cliques, bullying, herd mentality, firmness of "station", assault, abuse, rejection of "coastal cultures" and sweeping anything that makes you look bad under the rug. It's what makes "Their People" . . . who they are.

While Strongsville has it's share of all of the above, I'm willing to bet many of those at the McClown rally crawled out of the woodwork from these very places we mention.

And as for bullies, sometimes an assbeating is the only thing they'll listen to. Of course, you can't do that, since most bullies are popular and most schools are victim-blamers.

The solutions counselors offer to deal with bullies are laughable ("Use your words") at best and dangerous at worst. I mean, adults, parents: do you HONESTLY think a sociopathic fuckhead who has no care in the world and thinks he's invincible (because after all, the way a school deals with a bully is to punish the asshole AND the victim) is going to all of a sudden stop bullying a kid if said victim tells bully "you're hurting my feelings"? What the hell planet are you living in? In this one, that's pretty much giving the asshole carte blanche to ramp up his assholiness and have his asshole friends join in on the fun.

Senior year, I was so infuriated at the world and paranoid of everyone, I took a box cutter and a knife to school daily. Bullying reduced me to an animal; I was ready to break legs and stab. Later on in the year, I calmed down because of the fact that it was finally over.

I think it's a crime that to this DAY schools have learned absolutely NOTHING about Columbine and have done NOTHING to prevent another one from happening.

I'm just wondering when it's going to stop. When is a mass bombing of a school going to happen by someone pushed to the brink, or a victim getting beaten beyond repair? It's amazing to see that we simply don't care anymore.

And what's even funnier is that some DUers are bullies themselves:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3553553
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3052424

[Supersedeas]

196. and those rallies in rural Ohio were a real scream

[PM Martin]

219. It was during those rallies in rural Ohio

in which we heard the calls and threats made against the now President.
We should not be shocked to see this is where the "small town values" of hate lead to such horrible situations.

[Jefferson23]

4. Absolutely horrifying, that poor young man.

[undergroundpanther]

5. Bullying

I was bullied mercilessly for years. I have PSTD because of it too along with family shit and other shit.

Fact is it is the bullies who are choosing to do the harm,and the enablers around them choose to look the other way or egg it on.
But who stands up for the bullied kids in a culture that glorifies the ruthless and shuns the gentle?

I think bullies should be taken out of public school kept in a school for bullies,where they are taught WHY abuse is wrong until they either get it, or prove they have no conscience.And their parents must face reality that their little darlings are big assholes..and they are choosing to be assholes ,because they get away with it,and get off on it.

http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm
http://www.jaredstory.com/brandon.html

bullies can be psychopaths,and there is no justification for anyone tolerating someone getting abused by a bully or psychopath piece of shit, anywhere.The world itself hurts,so why tolerate an asshole who chooses to makes life unbearable.

[Joe Bacon]

14. I know what you're talking about!

I went through the same thing with bullies in high school. I also had to deal with teachers and coaches who egged them on. It left me very embittered on public education and teachers. Despite that, I managed to get my MA in economics and a good job. They tell you to "get over it" oh that is so easy for an idiot to say who never went through this abuse.

Don't get me started about math class, because the main teacher who instigated my abuse was my 8th grade math teacher. He never stopped picking on me or insulting me until the day I graduated and that was the day I finally went off on him, I yelled at him and let the obscenities flow like the dam was broke, yelling at that rat bastard in front of a bunch of graduates and their guests. To this day, I despise that scumbag. Hell is too good for him

[CoffeeCat]

18. I'm so glad that you were able to...

...tell your teacher off.

Wow. You were incredibly brave and had an amazing sense of self to do that--when you were only in 8th grade.

That's truly amazing. Most kids that age just accept what the adults do--and believe that they must deserve
the treatment if it's an adult who is inflicting it. Adults are supposed to do the right thing right?

Clearly, you knew this guy was an abusive hack. You were wiser than the teacher, when you were only about 13.

Good job!

[Joe Bacon]

102. He was the teacher union president

He was the living flesh and blood version of William Burrough's talking asshole from Naked Lunch. He just loved to pour on the racial slurs calling me "N-Head" because of my curly hair, and of course, his pal the football coach picked up on that and the other teachers and the jocks did too. When I protested they said "Get over it shithead, or moron, or some other nasty term. Now this is the point where conservatives would say I needed a voucher. PROBLEM--there were no other schools to go to. so what good would a voucher have been. When I go to vote on election day and see school bond issues on the ballot, I get flashbacks of the terror I faced as a kid, and I often wind up voting No on them. Sorry but I have no respect for teachers or schools.

[PM Martin]

218. I can't blame you one bit for voting no.

There was a member of this board who grew up in a small town and had similar problems (I believe they were from in New England) who said they got their "payback" by voting down the annual school budget.

[raccoon]

111. He said until the day he graduated,

"until the day I graduated and that was the day I finally went off on him"

I'm glad he went off on him then, but he'd be about 18 then. Joe, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Joe Bacon]

130. You're right!

I was 17 when I left that concentration camp that masqueraded as a school

[Oak2004]

206. I stood up to one of our resident teacher-abuser-bullies in seventh grade

This woman was, to put it mildly, physically and emotionally abusive towards everyone, openly beating students. A few years after I graduated, she was finally fired, after she knocked a kid's teeth out, and became a real estate agent. She should have instead been sent to jail.

Anyway I very carefully wrote a speech for the occasion, denouncing the teacher's behavior as "Hitler like" and "Communist" (political coherency was still in the future for me :)). And shortly before the end of English class, I stood up, and read my speech, quietly shaking but doing my best to look brave, certain I was going to get smacked across the face for it.

Instead, she looked shocked, and in an unnaturally quiet voice just said, "see me after the class". All she said, after the class, was "I'm sorry you feel that way".

Now I was one of the more bullied kids in that school of bullies, and I did not have very many friends. Most of those I did have were in a lower track (ahh, yes, the joys of "tracking") and I didn't see them in class. But that day, when I walked in late to the next class, I got a standing ovation. That day, and memories of the one good math teacher who introduced me to higher math concepts, are the only good memories I have of that school.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of schools. In fact, I don't believe in formal education (drop that statement most places, then pull out the popcorn). I don't think isolating kids into age groups, marching them into classrooms, and imposing quasi-military discipline on them in the name of "learning" (i.e., memorizing and regurgitating factoids devoid of any connection to the world, on pain of any one of a number of penalties including outright abuse) is a net positive for kids and society. Schools go a long way towards reproducing the conditions of the Zimbardo experiment. Why then should we be surprised at the bullying and abuse?

You can see the impact of schools on kids. Before they go to school, it's all questions, all the time, as their minds soak up the world. After a little bit of schooling, the only thing they're looking for is television or some other sort of mindless play, to blot out the pain of the day's "learning".

[Joe Bacon]

244. Public schools aren't designed to educate.

When you start public schools you are placed in a caste, Jock, brain, geek, or reject. Teachers do everything they can to place you in one of those categories. their main goal is getting you to pick the correct answer on a standardized test. Everything is based on passing that test and of course, some students are more equal than others, so some favored castes will get a break on the test, especially if they excel at athletics. or have a good looking body. All through school you are pressured to conform, you do as you are told if you are not a jock or have the good looking body, the teachers and the favored castes get carte blanche to use you as their litter box. You don't rock the boat and if you fight back, it only gets worse because the administrators tell you to take it like a man. You don't think, you do as you're told, when you come out, you're either a drone or a reject. The scars stay with you for the rest of your life. They never go away.

That's the way it is and I do not know of any solution that can resolve it. After the terror I went through, I made sure I would never have children. there is no way I would want to have a child enter an even worse hell than what I went through!

[PM Martin]

21. There is a defense for school choice.

[Joe Bacon]

103. Not when there was no choice

But then I don't live in the Conservative Laissez Fairyland!

[fascisthunter]

190. "Conservative Laissez Fairyland"

oh that's so good... I'm borrowing it.

[Omnibus]

33. Good for you!

I'm so glad you were able to tell your teacher off, for you, for him, and for anyone he might have hurt.

You're a great person, and we need a lot more like you.

[flygal]

41. I had a teacher who told me I needed to lose weight

to be on the drill team. 4 years later I had bulimia so bad I couldn't hold a job. I saw this teacher a few years ago and so badly wanted to tell her off. But she looked like hell warmed over so I figured that was her punishment.

[Javaman]

186. my 5th grade alcoholic pedophile teacher...

I hated this bastard.

I saw him slap kids in the face, favor the "pretty girls" and tell others to lose weight. I saw him hang a kid by his belt loop from the ceiling. He once locked a kid in a locker until she "behaved". so many other things.

I remember one day he was chewing me out because I couldn't quite get a math problem. All I remember to this day is how his breath stunk of booze.

I saw him years later, and much like yourself, I wanted to tell this bastard off. He was a train-wreck. we locked eyes, I just gave a disgusted look and shook my head. He got the message.

I had a few winners like him in grade school.

[reggie the dog]

53. Mr. Turban the math teacher

gave A's to all the jocks the cheerleaders got B's because he conisdered women dumber than men, the rest of us he sacked unmerciylessly. He told me in front of everyone that I had an F in his class even though I had done all the homework and passed every test because kids like me did not deserve to graduate. I took the class in summer school and got nearly 100%. The summer school teacher asked me why I failed to begin with and I said I had had Mr. Turban. He said I was not the first case. Indeed 3 other students in the summer school class had A's and had had Mr. Turban. Seeing as I would fail no matter what I threw my book at him, challenged him to a brawl and when he backed down in fear and tried to sic some jocks on me I walked out of class and stopped coming. My parents got me out of all the detentions from ditching his class and for throwing the book because the adminstration knew he was an asshole. My friends sister was in the same class and had done the same thing because he was sexist, and my buddy Vinnie threw the whole desk/chair thing we sat in at the dude.

[barbtries]

61. and he still kept his job?

jeez.
shit runs downhill. i used to go into classes at the CYA (prison for juveniles) to teach a victim impact course. i found myself troubled by the fact that the biggest thug, the worst fucking bully of all, was president of the united states. i told the kids that, said you can be better than that. but still. president.

i'm still aghast - four suicides in one year in one high school. that is too sick.

[reggie the dog]

75. he was old, he retired at the end of the year.

[barbtries]

62. and he still kept his job?

jeez.
shit runs downhill. i used to go into classes at the CYA (prison for juveniles) to teach a victim impact course. i found myself troubled by the fact that the biggest thug, the worst fucking bully of all, was president of the united states. i told the kids that, said you can be better than that. but still. president.

i'm still aghast - four suicides in one year in one high school. that is too sick.

[Berry Cool]

68. I am amazed at some of your stories.

At least I went to a school where the teachers were decent and knew what kind of crap was going on in their classes and tried to do what they could to stop it--and would even talk to me on the side to let me know they knew and they understood how wrong the bullying was. They also managed to teach me a lot. And when my mother, who had worked for the school system for years, died, they showed up at the funeral home, which made it a hell of a lot easier to get through what I had to get through.

[reggie the dog]

76. most of my teachers were wonderful

That one teacher I mentioned was the worst I ever had. Unfortunately many teachers tolerated bullying, some did not.

[YOY]

174. When FReepers teach.

Holy shit.

[imdjh]

112. Normally I'm not one for carrying grudges.

But telling a former teacher how you felt and how you feel can be therapeutic. I've done it.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

91. Bullying can, in some cases, be stopped

I taught school in the 70s and 80s, and there was a class of mentally and physically handicapped students that shared a recess time with my class. When I found out that one little boy with cerebral palsy and mental retardation was being teased and bullied by some in my class, I hauled all my students back inside, and told them what it was like to be teased and bullied as a child. How those wounds had stayed with me to that day--how I never forgot it. I then asked them to think for a moment about the young man--how he was born the way he was, and how it was very likely that he would give anything to be able to run, walk, and play like other kids. I had the whole class in tears. They literally didn't realize the harm they were doing, because no one had ever made them see the world from another person's point of view. Yeah, it was fourth grade, not high school--but I can't help but think that the lesson they learned that day changed them. I know they sincerely befriended the boy they had formerly bullied, and the joy on his face was wonderful.

[Skwmom]

96. In some cases? Bullying can be stopped.

All it takes is a zero tolerance policy and the enforcement of that policy.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

100. by "stopped" I mean the kids won't do it again

not because of threat of punishment but because they are taught to realize the consequences of the their actions and to feel empathy for another. In the years I taught school I had only two kids I'd say lacked those capacities, and both needed (but didn't get) psychological counseling (which wasn't required to be furnished by the schools at the time). One tried to murder a family member and then committed suicide--I lost track of the other.

[raccoon]

Good for you! nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

166. wow--I think you found the key: TEACH Empathy...

:hug:, ayashahaqqiqa..."I know they sincerely befriended the boy they had formerly bullied, and the joy on his face was wonderful." WOW! :cry: ---> :luvya:

this whole thread has got me crying (and doing EFT too; that's an unusual seeming therapy that actually has alot of proof backing it up. One of the biggest helps I've experienced for my PTSD issues... oops, I strayed off the point...)

there is really too much going on in this thread for me to hug and reply to everyone...wish I could...


and I don't feel like posting a condensation of my personal horror story right now;
suffice to say, I ache for all of US victimized...

at the same time, it is that awareness from experience----AND the courage we had to rise up from the ashes--- that makes us able to recognize the perpetrators.

ok, I need to refocus now, pull myself out of old grief and back into the here and now.

[YOY]

181. I really think there are people who cannot ever learn empathy.

Call it set personality traits or sociopathy but absolutely no empathy. Not a vast majority but a small and select few of true bad apples.

With the taught empathy other students may indeed learn to defend the defenseless though. I am hoping I can instill a sense of "not standing by when wrong is committed" in little YOY. I can only hope.

[renate]

237. you changed *so* many lives that day... just think of the ripple effect

:hug:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

258. often they are taught to be assholes by their parents.

and they simply pass on the bad lessons they learn at home.

[tonysam]

6. What is Notable About This Suit

is the fact the parents aren't asking for any compensation. I think this helps their case tremendously because it won't be seen as frivolous or as money grubbing.


By the way, many teachers are victims of bullying themselves--by administrators.

[blueknight]

8. THIS BREAKS MY HEART

i could always take care of myself while growing up. but i always felt the need to intervene or protect weaker people as my mom taught me to do. all my life, i hated a fucking bully. and i raised my sons to be the same way. RIP, young man.

[reggie the dog]

55. I lost more than one brawl sticking up for the little people

but I always got in a few good punches, and sometimes won. Sometimes just convinced the bullies own friends to mock them for sheer assholeness, like when the bully was picking on a retarded kid by throwing a full and of coke at the kid, who caught it and threw it back at the car, through the open window and off the face of the bullys little sister, who bitched out her brother for getting out of the car and punching the retarded dude, we kicked his car for each punch and he stopped and we all brawled, he got into his car and left to his sister calling him an asshole.

[saigon68]

60. This is why concealed carry at school is important

When the MF bullies or disrespects you.

You pull out your piece and light him up.

Or Cap the ass-hole (in the vernacular).

</sarcasm>

[reggie the dog]

85. guns suck

if kids had any honor they would go fists

[8 track mind]

191. or light up a few pressure points,

Thats always fun! :D

[chrisa]

200. But nowadays,

Even fighting a bully gets the police called, where they arrest both parties and suspend them from school, no matter who was picking on who. This is all in the name of the fact that schools are the ones that are supposed to stop bullies in their minds. Right...

This forces the bullied to keep it in until they explode.

[panzerfaust]

267. Yep. No one is laughing at Jiverly Wong any more!

..The gunman who killed 13 people in a rampage at an immigrant community center and then committed suicide was wearing body armor...

...Wong had a permit for the two handguns he used, Zikuski said. Most of the victims had multiple gunshot wounds, he said....

Wong...believed people close to him were making fun of him for his poor English language skills...

...It was at least the fifth fatal mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090404/ap_on_re_us/binghamton_shootings

[panzerfaust]

270. I hope that they win (though there is nothing FOR them to win)

Schools ENCOURAGE bullying (e.g.): http://news.aol.com/article/high-school-cage-fight/390108

In many cases TEACHERS ARE the bullies: I will not, again, recount here my memories of public schools (recounting it the last time, left me sleepless and irritable for three days) - but I will here repeat that one incident which defines for me the essence of teachers, schools, and administrators:

...sent to the vice-principal’s office early in my 'schooling' for having gotten caught with a comic book in reading class (where everyone else was, literally, reading "Dick and Jane"). When asked why I was there, I replied “For reading in reading class.” This resulted in his using the long paddle with the holes bored into it, instead of the usual, shorter paddle without holes. The length, and the holes, made the subsequent “whacks” just that more painful.

When 'teachers' single out, ridicule, and 'discipline' one because one is intelligent, how can it be thought that the student's fellows will not do the same?

My experience is that those students most likely to bully are rich-kid jocks (or the equivalent in poorer schools). Given the 'importance' of their athletic prowess to the schools, not to mention the importance of their parents in the community, they are never held to account for their behavior.

My conclusion is that ...

... public schools are simply institutions of socialization to cultural norms - that is to say institutions, of repression and regimentation - and believe they should be abolished.

I appreciated the irony of the recent mention of the president of an outlaw motorcycle chapter in Oz who roared up with a pack of "...the biggest, hairiest bikies he could find" on his little girl's first day of school - because he was worried about her being bullied, and wanted to make it clear to those at the school of how bad of an idea this would be.

If more parents were that proactive, perhaps bullying at - and by - schools would stop. I bet it would.

My heart goes out to Eric's parents, and I hope they can win this battle to force the faceless, bullying, uncaring school system and teachers to face their own responsibility.

For the bullies, I have no hope.

[Summermoondancer]

27. But they should get a financial award regardless...if they don´t want it

they can donate it to a fund that will prevent stuff like this in the future...like an intervention program where kids can go for assistence in making teachers stop bullying.

[MadMaddie]

9. 4 kids have committed suicide since 2007

The Repugs fight against anti-bullying laws so they can bully gay kids and anyone else they deem inferior.

This shit has got to stop.

[blue_onyx]

189. Republicans are fighting anti-bullying laws in MI

They claim the law is too "specific" because it listed the protected classes. One state Senator finally admitted they opposed the law because it would give "special" treatment to gay students. It's been years since the legislation was introduced and still hasn't passed.

[msongs]

10. religion has consequences nt

[timtom]

30. I think it was more likely the weather...

[rollingrock]

11. He should have took out the bully first

would have spared someone else the misery.

[Jkid]

12. It's amazing that despite many school shootings and suicides, nothing has changed.

1. One of the victims was bullied because he was perceived as a gay male. He's more into piano ,video games, anime, Harry Potter books and cracking puzzles, than dating, sport, or drinking booze.
2. School knew about the incidents but did little.
3.School covers up the incident as usual.

The US definitely needs a federal prevention of school bullying law, which specifically requires mandatory reporting of all bullying incidents and obligates school administrators to call police for serious cases of bullying.

[tomreedtoon]

20. Not amazing to me at all.

Silly "laws" and "anti-bully programs" where they hand out pencils saying "Don't Bully!" have no effect. Bullying is human nature. And if you don't like that, you don't really know humans.

The only thing that can be done is to cry a little, and put some flowers on the kids' graves. Because nothing anybody can do can stop bullying.

[bobburgster]

44. Can't agree with that....

The stick your head in the sand because nothing will stop bullying mentality is a cop out.
Agreed, there are many Silly "laws" and "anti-bully programs" that are only effective at placating. Something more than lip service needs to be done.

Sorry to all those who have suffered bullying....I was a teacher who didn't turn a blind eye, but I got very discouraged by the many who did. Never understood how they could rationalize bullying...

[imdjh]

116. Part of the problem with "bullying" is the same problem with schools in general.

Schools are prevented from effective discipline.

I had to storm the principal's office and demand that he call the police before "something was done". What was done was that I didn't go back to that school. I had been attacked, physically attacked by a kid who, as it happened was not truly one of the bad kids. He was showing off, in an odd sort of street logic.

When a kid bullies or attacks another kid, he should be taken to detention until a PARENT shows up to claim him, and the parent is subjected to a lecture on parenting that they can either put up with or watch their kid get sent to juvenile hall for assessment. Period.

That's how Catholic school works in a way. If you get in trouble in Catholic school, your parents have to come to pick you up or you will be expelled. If they have to leave work early, that's their problem and soon to be your problem one presumes.

Most bullies are bullies because they are allowed to be bullies. The ones who do it despite being punished, are candidates for the juvenile justice system. Which is another topic.

[Kerrytravelers]

149. I've always said that if parents had more legal consequences for their children's behavior,

a lot of bullshit would stop. I'm sorry if it puts mom and dad out, but tough. Often, when it escelates to this level, it is not the first time a kid has been a bully. Teachers often call home, ask for meetings, this kind of thing. And often, we are just ignored or bullied by the parents. As a teacher, if I knew that being blown-off by the parents would lead to them being held legally responsible for their child's behavior, I wouldn't have felt so hopeless and alone in my efforts.

I know this opinion is pretty controversial, but I think we've had enough dead kids in the past decade to warrent something more aggressive in dealing with bullying.

[tomreedtoon]

194. You were ineffective in stopping it because you can't.

You don't understand; being a teacher, that makes perfect sense to me, since there's so much you guys don't understand. You refuse to understand that bullies are sociopaths, who don't care about learning or reforming or any of that stuff. They want to hurt and kill, period. They don't care about becoming better persons or learning Ionesco. Their favorite music is the sound of a pipe crushing a skull and squirting brains on the pavement.

And the only reason for "sticking my head in the sand" is to avoid just such an injury, because you teachers can't or won't stop it, or you actually enjoy watching it happen. The best bullied people can ever hope for is survival, because the only effective defense would bring us first-degree murder charges. So we have to take what we can get.

[bobburgster]

248. "...bullies are sociopaths..."

That is a huge generalization to say the least.

[tomreedtoon]

250. Not a generalization. Life experience, dude.

If you haven't been bullied you can't know.

Have you ever had your head shoved until it dented in a steel locker? Have you ever been damn near raped by a football player when walking down an isolated corridor, and you couldn't report it because he was black and you were not? Have you ever been beaten bloody and know that teachers didn't care, and probably would have enjoyed watching you bleed?

If not, then may I respectfully suggest you not comment about real life, which you apparently know nothing about.

[MUAD_DIB]

135. I disagree. Detention, suspension from school and any

sports programs would be a wonderful start for the fuckers.


Let them and their parents cry until their faces are red.

[Javaman]

185. I disagree. You are looking at it from a parents point of view...

as a kid, I was one of those that got beat up regularly.

one incident, was to big to conceal even for the bullying asshole that beat me up. He got suspended.

one would think that would do the trick, nope. The nut job kid would hang out after school during his suspension and hunt me down. Saying I was the reason he got suspended, it was all my fault.

It certainly didn't help that the kids parents were equally fucked up. shit rolls down hill.

You have to understand, there are bullies out there that carry massive grudges as well, either from a screwed up family life, having no self esteem and needs to take out their frustrations on those around them, or they honestly have real mental problems and don't give a damn if they are suspended, prevented for playing sports or given any other authoritarian punishment.

There are kids that are just plain fucked up.

[tomreedtoon]

192. Detention? Suspension? That's what the bullies WANT.

That gets them out of school so they can bully much more effectively. Don't you understand? When you try to fight bullies, YOU CAN'T WIN. And that goes whether you are a student or a principal or a prosecutor.

[imdjh]

220. Politics poisons schools like it poisons science

If you start a sentence with , "If I were the principal I would...." then you will probably end it with, ".... unless I wanted to keep my job."

Suspending and expelling students is tracked by the county school system, and the state school board, the NAACP and probably some other groups. Too many legitimate disciplinary actions in your school, and you will be under the microscope and then under the gun. If you are a principal you will be accused of being heavy handed or incompetent. After all, if you have that many discipline problems, then according to some folks YOU must be doing something wrong. Of course, what that really means is that the school commissioners are getting crap, which they will kick down on you as a principal. There are cases of principals being PUBLICLY dressed down for discipline, and don't think the kids don't hear about that.

The kids at this point KNOW that nothing is going to happen to them. They dare teachers to touch them. They dare police officers to touch them. They dare principals to touch them. They sometimes threaten their own parents with a call to Childrens Services. Who do we have to blame for all this? Take your pick. It would be easy to say that it's the liberal judges, or the ACLU, and god knows they are at fault, but conservative and republican parents would be on a school employee with a lawyer as quick as Hippy Harry or African Andy would be if it were his kid. Parents of all colors and politics have decided that their kids are never wrong and that they are the only ones allowed to even yell at their kids, much less grab them and push them down in a chair while loudly expressing the finer points of respect and behavior.

If parents can be required to authorize private schools to discipline students, then why can't parents be so required for their kids to attend public schools? Because somewhere along the way, we decided that it's a right to be "mainstreamed" in a public school, even if you are a criminal, even if you are insane, even if you can't or won't learn.

[ArbustoBuster]

238. What the fuck is wrong with you?

"Hippy Harry or African Andy"? Holy shit, there is something wrong with you if you say things like that.

[JeanGrey]

259. Well put. And very true although we like to ignore it.

[sendero]

222. Nonsense...

.... most bullies do it because they are big cowards themselves.

I know personally of, and have heard many, stories that all turn out about the same, bully gets his nose punched, end of bullying.

[JeanGrey]

260. If ONLY that were true many kids would be saved a beating.

[tomreedtoon]

268. But providing that punch makes YOU a bully.

Do you really want to become what you loathe? That's a Republican tactic.

[imdjh]

292. This is where I want to SCREEEEEEAM! Bully has a DEFINITION

Don't take this personally, you've merely pushed a button. A huge part of our problems in schools and neighborhoods is definitions.

Punching a bully is not bullying, it's SELF DEFENSE.

Bullying has a definition, it's a pattern of behavior, not a single act. Therefore, no "zero tolerance policy" is going to be properly applied. Kids will tease from time to time. Kids will intimidate from time to time. Kids play power games from time to time. Bullying is defined by the consistency and quantity of a set of behaviors and usually by having a defined victim or class of victim.

The button you pushed, BTW, is explained in the following and it also explains my exasperation with the way schools (and colleges and corporations) do things.

1- Joe just hauls off and punches Billy. Blindsides him. I saw this on the news, in a hugh school basketball game, and the reporter said, "When the fight was over .... blah blah blah. " That was not a "fight". The reporter said that to avoid the politics of the situation, it was an unprovoked criminal attack. That's my opinion, hockey fans might disagree.

2- Joe and Billy are getting into it verbally, or even arrange to fight in the classic way. This is not bullying or an attack, it's a fight. It happens. It's something some kids do.

3- Jane is an asshole. It's a shame that by the sixth grade she's found her calling, but she's an asshole. Lots of people are assholes. This is not bullying.

4- Jane decides that Patty is her mark. Jane teases Patty and gets other girls to laugh at her. It sucks to be Patty, but this is not bullying, it's being mean.

5- Jane decides that Patty is her mark. Jane teases Patty and finds out that she can make her cry. Patty avoids Jane, but Jane now traps Patty in corners or inside a group. Now we have bullying.


As long as the mark can blow it off. As long as the mark can avoid. As long as the mark can defend. It's not bullying. It's when the mark is made to live in fear that we have bullying.

Which brings us to the next problem in dealing with bullying: kids who can't handle any kind of confrontation, any kind of teasing, any kind of meanness. I don't know what to do for these people. The world can't stop spinning for the unusual person who has no coping skills. Other kids can't be punished because their normal behavior causes the abnormal child to melt down. It's sad to watch, and I have watched it. You can order the kids to handle the crying kid with kid gloves or avoid him completely, but then he's in a sort of isolation.

I was a sensitive kid. No kid should have to go through the extreme that I went through, but the day to day stuff was just part of growing up, and if I hadn't had to learn to deal with all of that I don't think I'd be able to cope in the real world. The trick is sorting out the extreme from the day to day stuff, which is why schools have such a problem, they have decided that discretion is an invitation to a lawsuit. That discretion cannot be part of the protocol, because no one can be trusted with discretion. That doesn't work.

[Enthusiast]

34. Republicans like bullying!

That's how the Reich Wing took over in Germany. It starts with 'politically incorrect' speech, or name calling. Then it escalates into beating up those that disagree. It's right there in the playbook.

[AngryOldDem]

289. Most schools do have policies.

Trouble is, they are either not enforced -- or selectively enforced -- which makes said policies virtually worthless.

Been there, done that.

[npk]

13. So because he liked dance, theater, music, etc. he was bullied

So basically a smart, well read, boy was harassed by a bunch a knuckle dragging, sub-void, brain dead, morons, simply on the basis that he did well in school and took an interest in school activities and social events. Why does something tell me that these bullies will grow listening to Rush Limbaugh and blaming their minimum wage existence on uppity- liberals.

As far as the school is concerned, especially that math teacher, I hope they pay dearly and every last fucking one of them is sent into the streets. I have never wished unemployment on anyone, but I wouldn't shed a fucking tear in this case.

I feel so sorry and deep sympathy for this family.

[PM Martin]

23. Sadly, society tends to favor monkeys more than intellectuals.

Throwing a ball or beating up on the non "manly" :eyes: is viewed as strength. :puke:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

15. Bullying was a massive problem at my high school

And unfortunately it was mostly racial and directed towards Vietnamese (the gooks) and Persian (the terrorists) students, the fact that these kids who were so badly terrorized were almost entirely the children of the US backed South Vietnamese and Iranian leadership in exile seemed to be lost on the bullies who thought they were Chuck Norris and Rambo all-in-one by tormenting these kids.

Worse still, as well intentioned as they might have been the school administration seemed to have making it worse down to an exact science. While there were no suicides in my time - there was one at another school and a big deal was made out of it. Rather than shaming the bullies into not being assholes this made them even bolder as the new fad became the "suicide pool".

The school made things even worse by a boiler plate policy of no police cooperation, even after a serious assult the school refused to cooperate with the police on the grounds they didn't want to ruin the lives of the bullies, because gosh darnit! one day they are going to see the light, straighten up and be on their way to Stanford so the last thing we need to do is saddle them with a criminal record."

Girl on girl bullying was also a huge problem that extended so far as to girls setting up other girls to be raped - or whatever the legal definition of fucking somebody who is unconcious is.

However in the end, some of those who suffered the worst bullying have gone far in life, while the worst of the female bullies stars in fetish porn and gets pissed on for a living.

[slampoet]

16. I had teacher and a principal like that. I have done everything in my power to punish them

fuck with their lives now that i am an adult.

Too bad the kid didn't know that you can spend thirty years punishing your tormentors if you just tough it out for 4 years.

[callous taoboy]

57. Heh, me too:

I finally got up the nerve to call my old third grade math teacher. I didn't identify myself, and this was before caller I.D., and I let her know that she was an exceedingly cruel bitch. Felt great.

My brother has been fucking with a coach who used to physically beat his ass.

[slampoet]

179. To all the teens reading this. You CAN live well and have your revenge.

Just hold out and leave town when you graduate.

REMEMBER College has a way of weeding out the assholes. (well most colleges)

[Baby Snooks]

17. "Might Makes Right..."

We teach our children that in school. We teach them to be predators. We revere the predators in our society and revile their prey. We call them weak. They deserve it for being weak. Only the strong survive.

That is the reality of the "Christian America" the Republicans are so intent on preserving for the rest of us.

[chrisa]

203. I disagree.

We teach children to be meek and ignore bullies who torment them, and instead tell them to run to adults, who many times, don't care. There are always going to be bullies. Children just have to be taught how to shut them up with a fist in the face.

Teachers are part of the problem. Some tend to have their "favorites."

[PM Martin]

22. Bully's: Future Republicans Of The World.

[Kerrytravelers]

24. As a former classroom teacher, my heart just sinks.

I can not believe a teacher, any adult, would allow this to continue. They should lose their teaching rights. Pure and simple. I have no problem with the state yanking the credentials of teachers/administrators who can not stop bullying.


When I was still in the classroom, the bullying problem grew exponentionally each year. I spent more time fighting with the parents of bullies (who were, naturally, bullies themselves,) than anything else that year. Their little darlings are never wrong. How dare I accuse their precious angels of being mean. Boo-hoo-hoo.


Something is going to have to be done. But, it seems, that there just isn't the outrage. How many school shootings, suicides, beaten up children is it going to take to calm everyone the hell down?


I don't have kids yet and I'm already terrified about what Mr. kt and I are going to do when they go to school.

[Enthusiast]

35. Many teachers encourage bullying.

I've been there and witnessed it first hand.

[Skwmom]

99. Yes they do.

My son had a teacher like that.

[Kerrytravelers]

144. Unfortunately, there are teachers who do.

I don't think they are the overwhelming majority. From my experience, they are a small minoroty. Then there are the teachers who are in a constant brawl with the parents of bullies to end the behavior. However, after years of this, many of them just give up, and they become the ones that do minimal and just "seperates" the kids involved or whatever it takes to get through the day.

After years of this nonsense, I left the classroom because I was just tired of the bullshit. The final staw was when I had a parent storm my classroom and back me up against the wall because I dare question his precious little angel. Of course, all the administration did was take this kid out of my room and put her in a first year teacher's classroom. That first year teacher also quit at the end of the year. He now owns a Native Amercian Teaching Center in San Diego county. I work in an Independent Study Program in a different district.

I know my experience isn't unique. It's the same thing over and over and over. If you have a strong district, then the administration of individual schools will take the action they legally have to remove the bullies. But often, you get administrations that just don't want to deal and look the other way.

[callous taoboy]

59. The school where I teach has a zero tolerance policy toward bullying.

You even join in with bullying and you end up in I.S.S. or suspended.

[Kerrytravelers]

227. I once worked at a school like this. It was wonderful.

Our Principal and VP had their act together. The kids and the parents knew that none of that nonsense was tolerated. The leadership had no fear. When a parent threatened to go to the Superintendent or School Board, the leadership would shrug and say, "Go. Please, by all means. I'd be happy to take you on in public." And they would, too.

The second district I was in was a hell hole. I had to get out, as I was bullied, too. The parents were horrible. The teachers were horrible to one another. I had never seen anything like it.

I now work for an Independent Study Program. Many of our kids left their previous school because of bullying. They are much happier at their current school, and so am I.

[brentspeak]

197. I'm glad to hear that you tried to put a stop to bullying in your classroom

I wish you had been one of my teachers. It still amazes me how some of my teachers in Jr. High/somewhat in high school did absolutely nothing to stop the abuse in the classroom. There were even a couple of teachers who chuckled along with the insults.

[JeanGrey]

261. There are many TEACHERS out there just as afraid of the

bullies as the student and they themselves get it.

[Kerrytravelers]

265. There sure are. Because those classroom bullies tend to come from parents who are bullies.

It is a mess, and it seems that so very little is being done about it.

As a teacher, I would let the administration know when I was being bullied. I wanted the situation reported and on the record. I always documented absolutely every conversation with parents and even those with students that might need to be recalled later. I covered myself. Teachers get bullied every day.

However, those teachers who just sit back, do nothing and allow this kind of behavior to continue should not be teachers.

[ColbertWatcher]

25. The parents should sue Rick Warren. n/t

[timtom]

31. You have an incredibly keen and discerning mind.

You're way better than I. I went to the original article and was unable to see anywhere there or in the OP where Rick Warren has anything to do with this, either explicitly or implicitly. I see no mention of religion at all. I would love to learn your scanning tricks. Perhaps a seminar at our local high school...

[ColbertWatcher]

40. Didn't the OP say the kid was teased with homosexual slurs?

Isn't that Warren's MO?

Maybe you can conduct a seminar on obtuseness.

[Zodiak]

43. I find it ironic that in a thread about bullying

...you felt the need to bully another with your denigrating comment.

The school in the OP is not the only place that needs to do something about bullies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

153. You need to direct that comment at the person CW was replying to

That's where the petty comment was originally made.

[Zodiak]

214. narf..

That's what I get for posting in the wee hours of the morning.

[timtom]

231. So, out of the blue comes this non sequitur

I call the guy on it, and MY comment is "petty"? And, I'm a bully to boot? How do you justify that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

232. Oh this isn't the least bit petty

"I would love to learn your scanning tricks. Perhaps a seminar at our local high school..."

:sarcasm:

[timtom]

247. My initial comment was snarky.

Your response was petty.

You still haven't addressed the issue.

Where does religion fall in this story of bullying? What is Rick Warren's complicity in this matter? Is his perceived impact on the families who feel wronged relevant to the bullying in this case? What about the three other bullied teens at that school who also committed suicide? Rick Warren again?

Your attacking me for calling out a tiresomely specious trick of bashing religion at any remote hint of an opportunity misses the fucking point.

My guess is that you will read the first two lines of this post and then come back with another non sequitur.

[proud2BlibKansan]

256. I didn't make the comment about Rick Warren

Once again you fail to get the point. You made a, as you call it, "snarky comment" and now you accuse me of attacking you for calling you on your comment??

Yeah sure.

[timtom]

269. I'm sorry.

We're not communicating. You're stuck on a point.

Why do you think I was snarky? I mean, what motivated me to be snarky?

[ColbertWatcher]

204. I accept your apology. n/t

[Zodiak]

215. You are correct...the other poster started it....sorry

I was just too bleary-eyed to "get it" when I read it first, but yours was loud and clear, although retaliatory.

[ColbertWatcher]

217. Having dealt with my own share of bullies ...

... the one thing they can't stand is when someone stands up to them.

That is not to say that the person I was replying to was being a bully.

This is after all the internets and I give as good as I get.

[timtom]

73. No need for a seminar on obtuseness.

It's quite simple, really.

"...homosexual slurs...Isn't that Warren's MO?"

No. Slurs against anyone is not Warren's MO. (and I'm not a Warrenbot, by the way).

Being against something on principle and using emotive and incendiary language are not the same thing.

And I'd been bullied a lot and had some pretty devastating experiences. And Rick Warren nor religion had a f**ing thing to do with it.

[Bluenorthwest]

108. Warren equates my family with

pedophila and inscest. I call that emotive and incendiary.

[timtom]

123. Do you have an attribution for that?

As I say, I'm not a Warrenbot. What little I've read didn't address that.

Never mind, I found one.

It looks like he's citing a list of things he doesn't feel equate to marriage as he understands it. His emphasis is on the definition of "marriage". Remember, in the Christian church, marriage is one of the sacraments. But I don't see where his language was incendiary or violence-provoking.

The OP is about bullying. Specifically, bullying in school. Do you suppose that some other factor than religion could cause that sort of personality disorder? And is it possible that some of those with that personality disorder have historically insinuated themselves into religious organizations, political organizations, or schools?

[readmoreoften]

210. Look the links up on past threads. It was cited numerous times on DU during those debates.

Sorry, if you equate my relationship to a pedophile, it's incendiary. I don't care if you say in honeyed tones.

[timtom]

230. All I tried to do is to show

that religion had nothing to do with this bullying. And now, here you are accusing me of equating your relationship to a pedophile.

You people who attack religion in a thread such as this simply derail the real issue.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

119. maybe the school should sue warren/catholic church/imams etc in turn

[murielm99]

29. My husband served on a coroner's jury two years ago.

One of the deaths was a 15 year old boy who was bullied by the jocks at his school. He was small and socially awkward. Maybe he was gay, maybe not.

It did become a police matter. The family had e-mails, phone messages and other proof of the bullying. I never did hear about the outcome, but I hope the bullies and their parents paid a price for what they did.

[zonkers]

32. This breaks my heart. EVERYONE,,, BE KIND NOW.

[Enthusiast]

37. Rude has become an attribute.

Something bad has happened to this country.

[DiverDave]

36. My heart breaks for the family of this boy.

My kids are taught that this is WRONG and I make sure that if they see this they dont tell a teacher first, they confront the bully and tell them flat out it's wrong.
My 2 boys are 11 and 8 and they are well liked at school, and when they see this they tell us and then they make sure they get to know whoever was the target and give them their friendship...

I hope to raise kind and gentle men that will stand up to any injustice they see.

I am very proud of both of them, as they HAVE done that very thing.

The fascist wannabe's should be expelled and sent to JAIL, doesn't this qualify as depraved indifference?

My heart is with the boys family and friends.

Dave

[northofdenali]

38. WARNING. RANT FOLLOWS!! I was lucky through my school years - the ones that matter.

I use that term "matter" because I don't know of anyone who's ever been 8 and wasn't picked on; I've known some to whom the nastiness was so vicious that parents were brought in, and kids left the school; sometimes the pickees, sometimes the pickers. Sometimes the police came around, and someone went away for good - the bullies.

"Matter" years, to me, are the immediate pre-teen (ages 9 to 12) and teen years.

I landed, literally on a plane, in a community I'd never seen, a landscape I'd never imagined and a climate I hoped, fervently after the first winter, to forget. I had never lived away from the same school, friends, church and area for the first 13 years of my life. I was terrified.

I've never left the place, or the people. Skip the rest if you'd like, :rant:
but it'll fill my belly.

There were the standard "cliques" but I never saw, or heard, of this type of bullying in my small (population-wise) school district. We were, but for the exceptionally small Catholic high school - about 26 total kids in that whole school, including the kindergarteners - the ONLY high school for literally hundreds of miles in all directions. The kids who didn't live within the district's driving area (one about the size of Delaware) came into "town" and stayed with families during the school year. The families who housed/fed/loved these kids were compensated in one form or another, if they wanted the compensation. Most didn't. Many of the kids, and many of my friends (when I learned how to make them) were military brats from both an Air Force base and a large Army post. Many were kids of color, Alaska Native or Indian, and from the Far East. Lots of kids had to learn to use indoor plumbing; outhouses were the norm, not the aberration.

It wasn't the least turbulent years, either. I started high school in 1968. I was suspended once for helping start a walkout/demonstration that was pretty successful. Over 2/3 of the kids in school participated. It was about something fairly trivial - civil rights.

I've never before, or since, seen a more cohesive community. We had fights, rowdiness, one or two suicides (that were not unexpected by parents or teachers) and some occasional real violence.

Today, our Borough school district, though much smaller in population due to more schools in outlying areas, is much worse than many school districts in the roughest areas of the Lower 48. The gangbangers are here, the "cliques" have become armed - more well-armed than many of our military citizens, and the community is shattered. There is open warfare, there are lockdowns, drive-by shootings, a huge jump in both homicide and suicide rates........

What's changed? The time the parent(s) is allowed with the kid. Sounds pretty simplistic and stupid, doesn't it?

The downhill started with Richard Nixon's election in 1968 and was on a real roll from there on out. Even Bill Clinton sold out public schools and their viable alternatives (magnet schools, technical/vocational schools etc.). Our educational system in the U.S. is well behind any other "developed" (and I laugh at that term for us) nation. We toss more and more money at the schools - I hear "cost per student" and "cost/benefit ratio" and other likewise despicable terms quoted by what we used to call educators. They're now called.........educators. They aren't. They are accountants, attorneys, guidance counselors who guide toward a particular INDUSTRY instead of a skill, or a goal, or a dream. The schools have no art classes, music classes, theater classes, creative writing classes left anymore. You don't get "shop" (woodworking, printing, auto mechanics, electronics, wiring/electrical) anymore. (Those classes baffled me, I couldn't understand how anyone could be that talented - to make that car actually RUN!)

If I had to raise a child today (mine, thankfully, made it through fairly untouched), I would not put her in any school available to her in this state. Not one of them, private or public. I'd do my best to educate her at home, because our schools today don't teach. They don't educate. They "socialize" the student... and what kind of bullshit is THAT? It's because today, a parent literally does not have the TIME to invest in their child - they're too busy trying to make the money for that mortgage, those insane credit card bills, that ridiculously high car note.......... but 9/11 doesn't matter, go out and buy! buy! buy!

I don't know the answer to bullys/bullying/gang membership. I couldn't even begin to guess, and my daughter just got her Master's degree. That's how close I was to today's "educational" system.

Our. System. Doesn't. Educate.

It's more broken than our banking system, our health care system, our retirement system. Maybe it's because we are all, now, human "resources" and not "personnel".

My dad was a labor relations negotiator. He worked on both sides, first as Union, then Management. The unions here thought he was the best negotiator in the state. He was. He saw PEOPLE, not "resources". He didn't see Corporate Profit - he saw to it that his employees were happy, healthy and safe. Can you spot this difference between this man and, say, Ken Lay? I KNEW you could.... THAT is how we "teach for success". Not by "socializing" - by EDUCATING. I can hear y'all snickering - what, we should teach them how to read? write? know how to multiply? understand the difference between atoms and molecules? Damn right. AND kick down the corporations to the point where they MUST give their "human resources" a couple of hours a week to help the kid do just that - learn.

Learn. The. Basics.

Or else you get to where we are now. Ranters and ravers on every blog and twitter in the universe who can't even spell what they're trying to say. Commenters on newspaper articles that, after you've read the comment, you scratch your itchy spot and wonder if they actually could even read the article.

If we don't get away from corporate ownership of everything from our health/education/sports/you name it, we are done. Just put a fork in us, folks, because we're not half-baked anymore. We are almost fried. Done now, mostly. Damn, I've gotta quit now - the cats are getting pissed. OFF :rant:

If I've pissed anyone off, it's probably because there's more truth in what I've just written than you want to believe. If I haven't pissed anyone off, too bad. I'm a little, ineffectual woman in a state with a very small population who helped get the first Dem elected as a Senator in a long, long time.

Good night, DU. I love you all. No bullshit there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

163. I have to agree with you

All you have to do is read Internet comments. Now some might make the excuse that Internet commenters are writing in haste and don't have time to check their spelling or grammar, but there's a distinct difference between making a typo or careless mistake and making a post that is not only riddled with spelling and grammatical errors but illogical.

If someone writes something like

"u hatful liberals all u do is tax and spend yur worse then the nazis"

that's not "writing in haste," that's "can't spell, punctuate, or think logically."

[bullwinkle428]

167. Actual wingnut sigline : "Those on top of the mountian didn't fall there....."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And no, I've never pointed it out to him! I'd rather just continue to watch him wallow in his own ignorance!

[TWiley]

39. No, bullies today NRA members tomorrow.

There is this particlar mindset .....

[reggie the dog]

74. not true

lots of NRA members are people who armed themselves BECAUSE they were bullied

[TWiley]

264. what did i say?

[TomClash]

42. Plus ca change

C'est plus la meme chose.

Same as when I was in high school. What a fuckin' waste.

[reggie the dog]

77. rien ne change jamais

sale monde de merde!

[TomClash]

101. LOL - C'est vrai

[reggie the dog]

45. I had long hair in high school

from 1993 to 1997 It was not uncommon for the jocks to spit on me, call me a fag bla blabla and most teachers, security guards and even the principal never did anything, some even said that was the price I had to pay for looking different. I still have not cut my hair and I wonder how many of the assholes students teachers security guards etc. from high school are bilungual, have an MA and have moved overseas like I have, hell how many of them have even visited a country outside of the USA? At least I failed when I tried to kill myself. If only these kids knew how cool their lives would be once they got to the university....They could have gone off and studied in some big city somewhere and their self confidence would have shot up. Sad sad story.

[Swagman]

82. and I had long hair in high school..from '62 to '67

and all the same things you described happened to me. The teachers joined in the bullying. But one day I snapped and decked the head bully..knocked him clean out with one punch..he was at least a foot taller than me and BIG. I got new respect after that but it's not a solution.

I hate to think now there probably heaps of other kids being bullied for other reasons.

[reggie the dog]

86. I got respect like that too

but my punch did not do a KO and I still lost the brawl, got in enough good punches though.

[TXRAT2]

257. got in enough good punches though.

I fought the same guy 3 times over a 4 year period, 2 of those fights I lost, I refuse to be bullied. I probably got in a couple of dozen fights during my teen years, all but one of those involved bullies in one way or another. My dad at one time described me as having the worst case of little man syndrome he's ever seen. I was 5-6 and about 130 lbs through most of high school which pretty much made me a target. I found out pretty quick the world is full of bullies and I couldn't run away from it. I backed down from a fight in junior high in front of several people, the humiliation I felt from being looked at as a coward was more than I could take, 2 weeks later I fought him outside of the school. I didn't win that fight but I found out the physical pain wasn't near as bad as the emotional pain. From that point on I never backed down again.
20 years later the guy I fought 4 times later became my Chief Deputy my first term as Sheriff, we discussed the past many times. He still claims he let me win that last fight, he just got tired of fighting me. Took the fun out of it.

[reggie the dog]

46. surprise surprise the bullies went after gifted kids

Commoners are often jealous of people smarter than them and they react violently because they know they will never be able to understand things as well as the smart people. I had long hair and was bullied for that, I also was on the B and A honor roll, that got me more bullying. I HATED high school, I LOVED the university.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

176. yeah, I remember a comment from my one friend in elementary school...

before she joined the bully bandwagon, "why do always use such big words?"
Wow, forgot about that one, thank you for reminding me (oops, that sounded like snark, but it's not. I'm thinking many of us bullied were getting it because of our goodness)

I think this was 2nd grade, thereabouts. Of course I didn't realize I talked "funny"...

But thank you for bringing in this point; many of us need to be reminded of this aspect

[PM Martin]

224. At least in America, there is a subtle and mean

streak of anti-intellectualism. It is truely frightening.

[reggie the dog]

47. same bullshit as before

""What it boils down to is the football players, cheerleaders and kids with money have a different set of rules than everybody else," Hughes told ABCNews.com. ""
wasn't that the theme of the Outsiders, Grease etc????????

[reggie the dog]

48. they went after him for being skinny

so being fat and unhealthy is in and being in shape makes one a target for bullying in the USA? sad state of affairs in the USA.

[reggie the dog]

49. white upper middle class spoilt rich kiddies

"Mentor High School, with 2,900 students, is one of the largest high schools in Ohio. It sits in a predominantly white, upper middle-class community surrounded by malls, 30 miles east of Cleveland. "

Just like where I grew up in Elk Grove Village, IL. The kids with the most money tend to be the most intolerant for whatever reason.

[Berry Cool]

70. And if it's not money people can use as a denotion of value, it's something else

such as skin color, family origin (as in: whose has been around in town the longest), ordinariness vs. "weirdness," disability vs. ability, athletic skills vs. no athletic skills...kids find a way to separate the sheep from the goats and bully the goats, even if none of them really has wealth or status.

[IrishBuckeye]

152. Why are you bringing race and class into it? This is reverse racism

Why do you feel the need to focus on the race and class? Most rich white kids don't bully just like most poor black kids don't bully even though that who bullked me in school. Racism goes both way and it's not right ever. Check yo self before you wreck yo self.

[reggie the dog]

271. It is not reverse racism

They are white rich kids, like the white rich kids I grew up with probably, I am white and the rich whites fucked with me a lot. I was never picked on by rich non whites as a matter of fact.

[bulloney]

51. My high school had its share of bullies. None of them amounted to anything as adults.

I go to the class reunions and see that these people--if they show up--have lived a life of substance abuses, multiple marriages, child support payments, underemployment and other problems. And they look 15-20 years older than their actual age.

And they were such hot stuff in school.

I don't know if kids are any more abusive today than they were when I was in school 30+ years ago. But, I don't ever recall any victims of bullying committing suicide then. Today, it happens a lot. Why?

[WVRICK13]

58. Bullied in School

I was bullied in elementary school and early junior high because I was fat, so I went on a diet and exercised. Strange, after I lost the weight I was bullied because I am gay. When I went to high school things got really strange. The senior jocks picked out their victims the first day. Around lunch time I was going to my locker and a senior football player knocked my books onto the floor and kicked them down the hallway as he called me fag. I had my trusty hard backed clipboard so I grabbed it with both hands and swung it straight into his face. Strange, once you break a senior linebackers nose the other assholes leave you alone. The administration lost it when my father asked them what they thought he should do about a 128 pound freshman breaking a 220 pound senior football players nose. From that day forward people left me alone.

The summer before that incident I decided I wouldn't put up with bullshit from anyone. I was a devout Catholic, alter boy, etc. At the ripe old age of 13 I went to a priest I trusted and tried to talk to him about being gay. He told me I was doomed to hell forever and there was no redemption. Boy you should have seen the look on his face when I said, "well fuck you and fuck your god, I refuse to believe in anyone who doesn't believe in me." I have not been back to church since and I decided then and there I would never be a victim again. That sick fucking priest could have been the cause of me committing suicide if I hadn't been confident enough to stand up to him and his bullshit. Parents need to know how some adults treat their children and how much damage they can inflict. The best lesson a parent can teach a child it self respect.

[callous taoboy]

64. Kick ass, man.

I'm 44 and I've been getting bullied by colleagues at work. It is very subtle, but it is the x-tians who have formed a clique and they take issue that I am an atheist. I practice what they are supposed to be practicing: civility, tolerance and "turning the other cheek." In your case it sounds like you handled the situations quite appropriately! Some folks deserve a broken nose and to be told to fuck off!

[elehhhhna]

117. lol I was bullied at work by a small town texas HS dropout who

finally accused me of using "too many big words". She bagged it when I explained that I use this vocabulary with my grade school daughters and was insulted at the suggestion to dumb it down.

[bulloney]

65. You're right about adults and other authority figures mistreating children.

We had a head football coach who was the classic bully. If you didn't go out for football, you're a "pussy," in his words. He always picked on the smallest students, even if they played sports. I guess he didn't feel as superior to the larger students.

At a class reunion, I found out that HE committed suicide a few years earlier. Probably couldn't stand himself.

Strange that the children lived through those years, but the adults didn't.

[callous taoboy]

66. I wasn't bullied as a kid. I am bullied as an adult.

[90-percent]

81. WOW!

WVRICK13, that is so awesome you had the strength to deal with your horrible situation. I was teased but never hard core bullied, but I do remember seeing other kids brutalized by bullying. It is my regret that I didn't have the courage, wisdom or strength to take a stand when someone was being bullied. My thoughts were mostly; "Oh, God, please please please don't let the bullies start picking on me!" I was tremendously shy in High School and I worked my way out of that by going off to college and the goal that I would be able to speak in front of a group. Thankfully, I have no fear today doing that and it is actually one of my most significant achievements in my life.

I was cowardly, in other words. I hope I've grown somewhat forty years later.

There was a rich kid bully I remember well. He was just determined to beat me up. For what ever reason, I became friends of his friends, or else I think my best friend lived in his neighborhood, so I was over his house a few times. Good God, did his mother ever domineer over him. The kid was so whipped by his mom. He went on to run the family company. He was held in high regard in school for being such a bully.

I was also ostracized by the kids in my neighborhood. I was devastated by that and I try to resist to this day having that emotional trauma influence my life. The hurt I felt was some of the longest emotional pain I have ever had in my life.

Jim

Wow! this post is so all about me. Sorry.

[90-percent]

84. Authority

I got a good lesson on authority in First Grade. I was on crutches and they had you line up in boys lines and girls lines. To 'protect' me, they put me at the end of the girls line so I would not be harassed in the boys line. The result was like putting a neon sign on me saying: "Here you go, bullies, FAIR GAME!"

That taught me authority figures can be pretty stupid. To this day, I don't respect any authority unless I feel they are worthy of respect.

-90% jimmy

[IrishBuckeye]

157. Point on

I would have paid to see both the clipboard and priest confrontation and cheered you on.

[cap]

63. Parents were at home more...

both parents... we also had the stores closed on Sunday so we were all stuck with each other. At times we were bored out of our minds, but we were all bored together. :)

Today, the economics are different. Parents are working 24x7

[Javaman]

128. I was out of high school about 4 years...

I had finished college and was taking my car to a local car wash. While waiting for it to come out and the guys dry it off, one of the employees that worked there was some guy I had gone to high school with.

He was a colossal prick insane bastard bully. The kind of guy that would punch someone for no reason, the kind of guy that would fuck with you till you almost shit your pants, they kind of guy that robbed people, beat up people and just did crazy ass shit for the fun of it.

He walks up to me and tries to strike up a conversation with me. I so remembered this bastard, he made my life a living hell.

So he said, hey Javaman, remember me? A moment of fear for my life, pain, total disgust and revulsion for this individual flashed through my mind. I said, "no, who are you?". It was like I slapped him, he was totally taken off guard. "It's me, Michael so and so".

At this point in my life (in just 4 short years), I gained some weight, put on some muscle and grew several more inches. I wasn't that skinny kid, that could be pushed over with a mild gust of wind anymore.

So I say to him, "oh yeah, I remember you, you are the guy that made my life miserable through out junior high and high school".

He said, "yeah, that was me" and he sort of laughed.

I looked him sideways, and said, "what the fuck are you laughing at? You really think it's so funny that you brutalized me and a bunch of others? Where did that get you? A job drying cars and a rap sheet? that's something to be proud of?" I kept my eyes even with the prick. Even though we were both 22 at the time, he had aged. He was no longer the big bully on campus. He was just a empty shirt. He saw that I wasn't going to back down, he looked down and mumbled a sorry.

how the mighty fall. Last I heard, he was in prison for armed robbery. no surprise.

Oddly, his younger brother was completely normal.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

156. Two points

1. I think part of the motivation for bullying is that the bullies know deep down that they're losers, so they take it out on the kids who have the potential to move out of the environment.

2. It's a meaner world than it was 30 years ago. Society definitely seems meaner and dumber than it was when I was in my teens and twenties. People did mean things to me, but nobody ever said anything like, "You're worthless and you ought to kill yourself."

[imdjh]

160. That's a good point

I was bullied in junior high, but by high school most folks had grown up. Also, many of the culprits in junior high went to a different high school. We had a high school for greasers and a high school for hippies, at least it worked out that way.

The bullying in junior high was the usual crap. In essence the bullying was a power contest of sorts, it got physical now and then, but honestly the guy who was my biggest menace ended up being a friend the next year. I went to two junior high schools, one urban and one suburban. The urban one was a truly dangerous place, every stairwell, corner, bathroom, or unattended area was a real danger zone. The suburban school was more of a problem-with-individual situation.

But through all of that menace, and physical violence, and even one of my classmates being killed by another student, I still think that what I hear about today is more serious.

[Javaman]

169. Obviously you never went to my high school.

I graduated in '82.

My school was neither a "tough NY school" nor a "great school". It was just middle class blue collar.

However, we had our share of complete dysfunctional psychopaths. Guys that threated to light me on fire. Others saying that they would come in the middle of the night and slit my throat. Still others that would tell my friends they were worthless and should die.

While sitting in the lunch room one day in 11th grade, one of these psychopaths took a can of soda and smashed into the head of a kid. The kid went to the hospital. What was the reason why this nut case did this? He just didn't like the kid. That kid was a friend of mine. Skinny, underweight, and just basically a normal but very smart kid.

So, perhaps life in your neck of the woods, was pretty reasonable when you were growing up, but in my school there were kids you just plain avoided out of safety of your life.

The year after I left, they started posting guards at the doors and in the hallways. My comment then was, "it's about time, but why did it take this long?"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

175. I graduated 14 years before you did

so things hadn't gotten quite so bad.

[panzerfaust]

54. Yep

Sounds like public school to me.

[barbtries]

56. four suicides in one school

in one year? there is something very very wrong going on there. i hope all the truth comes out. it may save someone down the line. hurts my heart to read what shits people can be, but it is not a shock to learn that kids can be the cruelest.

[RebelOne]

69. I have a friend whose son committed suicide in school.

He was 15 years old and very overweight. His schoolmates would bully him endlessly. One day, he took his father's .22 pistol to school. He stood up in class, said he couldn't take it anymore and shot himself in the head. Since that time, my friend and her husband have gone on many TV talk shows, including Oprah Winfrey's, campaigning against bullying in schools. This happened in the middle '90s here in North Georgia.

[Javaman]

173. From the time I was in 7th grade to the time I graduated...

we lost 10 kids to suicide, drunk driving and blatant teen stupidity. 3 of them were close friends of mine.

Granted 4 in one year is pretty odd and does skew the ratio, but teen suicides are certainly nothing new.

[Smarmie Doofus]

71. Ugh. Why am I not surprised at the following paragraph?

>>>>The lawsuit -- filed March 27, alleges that the quiet but likable boy, who was involved in theater and music, was called "gay," "fag," "queer" and "homo" and often in front of his teachers. Most of the harassment took place in math class and the teacher -- an athletic coach -- was accused of failing to protect the boy...>>>>>

Usually that's four for five paragraphs into the story. This time it's in Paragraph 2.

Progress?

Should we ... in addition to doing anti-bullying awareness in public schools... teach kids science about sex.... including homosexuality?


Naaahhhh....... let's just let 'em die.

[closeupready]

78. Totally support this lawsuit, 100%.

n/t

[woodsprite]

79. This is so sad. I'm going to mention this article to my son's teacher.

He's 8 yo, a skinny minny, and he's being bullied and with the same type of verbage. My son has a good relationship with the teacher and he's quite verbal. I know he recently told the teacher that he didn't like being moved up in the older class since he has to deal with these kids picking on him and he's looked forward to moving up for some time. :( The counselor told me that my son has kinda decided to stick close to an older boy - one we know who has a younger brother. Thank goodness the school is reactive to parents concerns. Both times that I've told them about it, they talked to the kids and their parents. This week they did anti bullying training.

[Seldona]

80. Bullying changed the course of my life.

I left high-school for university at 15 because I couldn't take it anymore. I am thankful that I had the ability to do so, so many others didn't.

Growing up in poverty with disabled parents, I was constantly harassed. I learned to have a tough skin, and not give any ground, no matter the cost. Kids can be brutal.

To this day I have an extremely difficult time when people make fun of or joke about the disabled.

[NashVegas]

83. Arrest and Prosecute the Kids For Harrassment. Try Them As Adults

Put it on their permanent record.

But aside from that, from reading the story, I get the feeling the boy's parents could have been more active in resolving the issues:

#1: they had the option to yank the kid out of that class and into another.
#2: they had the option to yank the kid out of that school, as another parent whose bullied child still lives, did.
#3: they had the option to accept that their kid was probably gay, and help him confront it and love and accept himself enough to refuse to accept the following nickname:



I'm not blaming them, just wishing they could have made the decision to actively be his champion instead of leaving it to the school.

[goddess40]

183. NO,NO,NO

The bullies are only part of the problem - because the school does nothing about bullying, other then lip service, they are responsible too.

I hate the fact that this country as gone crazy waiving kids into adult court - their kids and need to be dealt with. Until males are 25 their brains are still forming and to throw them in prison as their brains are still developing will only hurt their chances at reform and they'll come out with brains hard wired to what they learned in prison. The answer is more character education and having bullying addressed as a class in college for the teachers and administrators.

Your other solutions are "blame the victim" ones, although if the school isn't going to do anything you have to do what you have to do to protect your kids. But if you go to the point of pulling your kids it should be followed with legal action.

[NashVegas]

239. Parenting Is Where the Responsibility Starts

If you leave it to institutional authorities to protect your children, they won't be protected. Sorry, but it's a fact: if someone wants to fuck with a kid badly enough, they're going to and no rulebook is going to stop them.

Until males are 25 their brains are still forming and to throw them in prison as their brains are still developing will only hurt their chances at reform and they'll come out with brains hard wired to what they learned in prison.

Did you read the article? These little psychos are going to be just as big assholes at 25, only they're going to be a shitload more subtle about it. They'll probably wind up as stock brokers, as it is.

Character education starts with parents, not schools.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

275. Sometimes it does start with schools...

We didn't really begin to make headway with regard to diminishing racism until desegregation.
While it hasn't been eliminated, there are far more instances in which kids do not respect their parents' bigotry.

[Soylent Brice]

88. that kid was me when i was in high school.

3 separate occasions i had a gun in my mouth.

somehow, i pulled through. i don't know, maybe it was to spite them. perhaps if i lived they wouldn't get what they want.

when i was 19 yrs old i took myself off of all my meds (ritalin and litiuhm, and few other notables) and it was like the world came back to me.

that teacher sounds like a typical coach/teacher to me. he deserves a criminal record. teachers are supposed to protect the kids.

K&R

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

89. I hope that bully who said those words

was forced to watch a video of the young man's funeral. I wish that his parents made him go to the other boy's parents and apologize. This probably didn't happen, but it should have. As for the teacher--any teacher that allowed bullying to go on in their class should be ashamed, imho. Back in the 80s when I was teaching school I had a zero tolerance towards bullying and I enforced it.

[Skwmom]

94. You think this would phase them?

After four suicides, I think not.

Ashamed? The teacher should be fired.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

97. I think it might phase the bullies

because it would force them to look at the results of their bullying. Yes, it may be too late-perhaps they have already turned into sociopaths--but there's always the chance that it could help.

As to the teacher being ashamed--yes, he should be ashamed for his actions, and not because they brought about his departure from the educational profession.

I'm talking about hoping there is still a shred of humanity in these people.

If you check my posts upthread, you will note that I taught school (for 19 years in public school), and I had and enforced a zero-bullying policy--and explained to the kids WHY bullying was harmful. This was long before any anti-bullying measures, long before any courses in teachig empathy, too.

[Skwmom]

105. If only there were more teachers like you.

But unfortunately, many of the teachers are just as bad as the bullies. I'm all for awareness training in schools. And the earlier they start it the better. But that alone will not do it. That is why I am all for a tough zero tolerance policy in school.

I've read about some great anti-bullying programs at the lower levels where they get the entire student body to participate in stamping out bullying. Hopefully, big financial awards, if nothing else, will force schools to implement similar programs.

[emmadoggy]

142. Our school uses

a bullying program. Starts right off in Kindergarten. There are student assemblies, the kids are talked to on a regular basis about bullying and what to do if it happens to them or they see it happen to someone else. They are taught about being responsible and respectful. There are posters on the walls relating to bullying prevention. I know that they also do a survey at least once a year - involves a roughly 3-4 page survey (fill in the oval) about bullying and other social aspects of school. Kids who bully get "bully sheets" when an incident is reported, which sets off a chain of protocol (after "x" number of sheets "y" happens etc.)

I'm not saying it stamps out all bullying, but at least the school takes a pro-active approach and I do think it makes a difference. The kids know what to look for and what to do if it happens to them or a friend. They feel more empowered and bullying is looked down upon rather than being admired.

My heart aches for the poor boy and family in the OP. These things should never happen.

[Javaman]

177. maybe, but given the fact that a recent study showed that there is potentially as many as

1 person in every 100 people are sociopaths or have it's tendencies, I honestly doubt that many bullies (whom I deem as having sociopathic tendencies )would feel a thing or even know how to react.

Heck, there was one nut in my school that would chew glass for fun. I'm not kidding. he eventually wound up in prison.

[Skwmom]

90. They need to implement a zero tolerance policy for bullying.

I've dealt with the bullying issues and while schools will say they have an anti-bullying policy, they seem reluctant to enforce it. We resolved it by documenting everything and mentioning the L (litigation) word. I've observed classes where the bullies ran the classroom rather than the teacher (of course, I guess it's a little more difficult when the bullies are the children of other teachers).

There was a study done that said bullies are more likely to be from influential backgrounds and the "popular" kids in school. I remember after Columbine everyone asked "where were the parents of the shooters." But no one asked where were the parents of the students bullying the shooters or where were the teachers.

A study was done of school shooters and the common denominator was bullying. If nothing else, you would think that this would make schools do the right thing.

How hard is it to implement a three strikes you're out and expelled if you bully others?

[Kindigger]

92. I remember

8th grade band class (around 1974). He was quiet, slightly overweight, and played the tuba. One day our teacher came in, and told us he had hung himself the night before. I can still see his face, but I don't remember his name. It was a very uncommon happening at the time, and nobody talked about it.

It must have had an impact on me, because by the time I got to high school I gravitated toward kids who sat alone in the hall between classes, or at lunch.

Its funny now when I see a former cheerleader face-down on a bar somewhere. Several times I have had former jocks come up to me in a store, ask me how I am, and tell me how much they wanted to talk to me in school, but "they" wouldn't let them.

I still run into the 'loners' once in awhile, but they blow me off. It seems their perception of my motives for befriending them was different from mine. I don't think I consciously knew WHAT my motives were.

Now that I think about it, maybe THEY thought they were being put down, made fun of?

OP opened up a can of self examination here.

[jmowreader]

228. As one of the loners...

if you, one of the "popular kids," were to suddenly try to befriend me, I would have run like hell or done something to push you away. In my mind, the only reason you would have wanted to attempt to socialize with me was to gain ammunition with which to attack me later. Would it have been true? Probably not, but let's get down to basics: so many other people have attacked me for whatever reason, there's no reason to believe you're any different.

[Kindigger]

255. Sorry so late reply

Nothing ever comes out right for me on paper (that's why I don't say much around here). I could give a lecture in front of 10,000 people, but I can't express myself correctly on paper :)

I wasn't one of the popular kids. As a teenager I did like clothes and shopping, but I worked after school to pay for every piece.

We weren't poor, but Dad carried a lunch bucket, and the popular kids' dad owned a car lot. I found that amusing.

The loners were basically the same as me, just not as well dressed. Eventually I followed my elder cousin's lead, and adopted 'hippie garb', and 'embroidered on my jeans'. This just made me a different brand of outsider to the loners.

I guess its stuff like this that led me to sociology and people watching.

[johnlucas]

93. What I would do if my child was a bully

I was never really bullied in school. There was one that tried & I ended up hitting him in the head with a rock long range. That stopped that pretty much right there.

BUT I have NO PATIENCE & let's say ZERO TOLERANCE for any bully. In school, at work, anywhere. And that includes when my country acts as a bully. But that's another subject.

Let me tell you what would happen if I found out my child was bullying some kid in school. I would confront my son or daughter & ask them what makes them think they have the right to put their hands on someone like that? I would then mirror their behavior at them personally to underline the point. I would put on the "bully act" to my own child pushing on their shoulder like they pushed on the victim kid's shoulder & such.

I would tell them, "I didn't raise you up to bully on folks & you ain't gonna behave this way, understand? If I hear anything else about you bullying someone in school, you're gonna have to deal with me. Straighten your ass up!" And the dead eye stare will let them know this is not a game.

Then I would say, "No, and to make sure you straighten up we're gonna meet this kid you've been harassing along with his/her parents. You're going to give an apology for your disgusting actions face to face with this kid...Oh, and you're gonna mean it. You will promise to never bully or bother him/her again & to show that you stand by your word, you will shake this kid's hand. After THAT, I MYSELF will give my phone number to this kid & tell him/her to call me if you renege on your promise. If you go back on your word, he/she will call me & let me know how you've been behaving. Not only that but I will tell this kid to let me know if you bully anyone ELSE in school by calling me at this number. Just let me hear one more time about you harassing your fellow students at school. I'll take you OUT of that school & into a place where you're never gonna get your own way. You try pushing around some grown-ass man drill instructors & see how far that takes you. Or maybe you'll get to visit a jailhouse & REALLY see how much way you're gonna get trying to push around the inmates in there. TRY me!"

I will not put up with it & if the kid is incorrigible I may disown him/her. That's how serious I am about this subject.
This is unacceptable & uncivilized behavior & schools don't do enough to check this crap. They think it's all a part of growing up. And bullying is more than aggressive teasing & roughing up. In some cases these are deadly gangs threatening kids with weapons.

I believe in bullying the bully. And whenever I see someone trying to dominate another person like this, I step in to say why don't you jump on me if you so bad? And if that means I got to take a 2 X 4 to their ass, so be it. Luckily I haven't had to exercise this behavior so far. Well not in a physical way anyway. There WAS this forum I used to practice this idea at long ago.

No kid should end his/her life over foolishness like this. Bullies should be academically punished for dumb behaviors like this. Throw 'em out of school & let them fall behind a grade or two. Send the message that behavior like this can lead to not being able to complete your schooling which makes it hella hard to find a job.
John Lucas

[40ozDonkey]

120. Yeah, I avoided bullying too. I used the Richard Pryor method.

"Keep 'em laughing. That way, they keep their mind off the booty!"
-R. Pryor

The only kid who tried me was in third grade, I ran up in his face and yelled craziness until two teachers showed up and gave us detention. He chose softer targets after that day.

I found that bullies hate people in groups, so my defence mechanism was to always be with one or two friends. Which means I had to develop a sense of humor. Enter the mid-80's works of Eddie Murphy, Sam Kinison, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Berke Breathed, Gary Larson, and Mel Brooks. I had kids rollin on the floor, just because they hadn't seen Blazing Saddles yet and I could steal a few lines. By the time high school came around, the middle school bullies I grew up with wanted to hang out after school.

I know that when I have a kid, I need to raise a shark. If my wife and I have a girl, I'm going to have to work overtime to make sure she knows how to act like a lady and fight like a man (No thanks to Steve Harvey). I also need to accept that if I fail to instill boundaries and discipline for whatever reason by the time the kid is 13-15, military school will have to pick up for my failure. I've heard horror stories, but I've watched parents kid glove their teenager because they were afraid of using all options available, and it just went from bad to felonious.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

246. Yep, my parents flat out told me I could beat the shit out of any bully and not get in trouble

Sure, there would be consequences at school, but not at home.

5th grade, I got bullied mercilessly by a group of girls. One day, I took a swing, and ripped out one of their earrings. None of them even went to the teachers with it. I told my dad, and he said, "good job." None of them ever bothered me again, and I even became friends with a couple in HS.

In HS, I got in a fight with a crazy boy. I mean, the kid was just nuts. I ended up with three days in-school-suspension, but when the assistant principal called my mom, she was fine. She had the other kid as a stupid and knew how crazy he was.

But if my parents ever knew I was bullying someone, they would have killed me. I was just raised to protect myself, and that no matter what, I'd never get in trouble for doing that.

[depakid]

95. Yet another reason not have guns in the house

Two of the three kids used their parent's firearms to kill themselves....

[Mopar151]

98. The trouble is

IMHO
Many of the teachers/administrators are unconciously trying to "fit in" to the cliques themselves, instead of acting like the leaders they are supposed to be.

Sweet revenge? Having a school bully call on you, order book in hand, to ask for your business, and watching him try not to shit his pants....

[LeftinOH]

104. In my HS, there were lots of coaches who doubled as "teachers"..and they were part of the problem.

..they were often of the same mind-set as the ones who do the bullying, but just a few years older- they witnessed the bullying, the name- calling, the ceaseless 'fag'-baiting.. and they did **nothing**. I recall their fucking indifference with more resentment than of the bullies themselves.

[Deep13]

109. Yes, I remember that too.

Apparently, ones worth as a person depended on his or her (but mostly his) gym class performance.

[YOY]

126. Oh yes. I remember those guys.

Funny thing was. Those guys whose asses were kissed went nowhere after graduation. If they went to college they didn't last long.

[Javaman]

180. I know of two gym teachers in my high school that actively encouraged bullying.

it was a bizarre gladiatorial contest to them to pit bullies against the weaker kids. I hated them for that.

[Deep13]

107. That horrible behavior seems to be inate.

Just to be clear, that is in no way an excuse for bullying. People are perfectly capable of deciding not to follow their destructive impulses.

I have to think that if 10 random people were dropped in some deserted place, after a month at least one of them would be an outcast. Kind of like a Lord of the Flies situation. I wonder if the failure to act by teachers was because to some degree they shared the bully's feelings. That is that the victim was inadequate socially and a disgust towards him. I'm afraid to say that I've seen that myself.

[mackerel]

113. I used to teach and there is no way I would have allowed

bullying to happen under my watch. I do wonder about the parents though. Did they know about the problem? It just seems to me that people spend a lot of time being reactive rather than being proactive.

I check in with my kids and I also stay in touch with the other parents at school. In my case I think it helps that I'm actively involved with the school.

[Deep13]

118. Didn't mean to paint teachers with a broad brush.

I'm just think that if a few are like that, the results are bad enough.

[madaboutharry]

110. My daughter's closest friend is a

gay boy in her high school. He is called these same names by jocks when he walks down the hallway.

It is just sickening what people think is an ok way to behave.

[Bluenorthwest]

114. I was always too verbal to be bullied

and instead spent my school years standing up for others when they were bullied. I do the same thing here. DU, and all of America is fully on board the rude train, the snark express, the mean hearted highway. And a cruel word in one place springs up as a violent action in another. So many DUers plant those seeds without thinking. They imagine themselves to be craking hilarious one liners, when all they do is show their own fear and dispair. They join in united in common phrases and themes, talking about ponies and the like. Bullies all. Afraid to stand and speak in clear terms, afraid to speak without a gang of like minded thugs to parrot the slogans of choice. The seeds we sew are the harvest we reap. Always.

[customerserviceguy]

115. Why are there bullies in schools?

Because about fifty years ago, we did away with something valuable: reform school. The powers that be decided the slackers, the hoodlums, the smokers and tokers, and the rebels were just 'misunderstood', and if they were mainstreamed along with all the other kids, they'd just improve spontaneously. At the same time, school administrators put away the paddle.

We've learned nearly nothing from Columbine.

[YOY]

121. Welcome to Ohio education.

I had some of the same in middle school...then I stared putting my foot up people's asses and they stopped. I went to a better HS (Catholic...a decent one) but I saw some of the same for Public School friends.


The Football players really would get away with murder...the coaches shouldn't have been teachers.

[YOY]

122. Welcome to Ohio education.

I had some of the same in middle school...then I stared putting my foot up people's asses and they stopped. I went to a better HS (Catholic...a decent one) but I saw some of the same for Public School friends.


The Football players really would get away with murder...the coaches shouldn't have been teachers.

[Blue Diadem]

178. "the coaches shouldn't have been teachers"

I agree.

[badgerpup]

125. Had to change schools due to bullying...

...otherwise I think somebody would have ended up either dead, crazy, or seriously hurt.
This was during junior high.

Didn't develop serious problems with depression until my late teens, thank FSM or I'd probably not be posting today.

[HelenWheels]

127. Everyone that's been bullied needs to speak to their school board

or run and get on the board. Write letters to the editor, senator's, congress, state officials, anyone you can think of.

Family members need to write too and get on school boards.

Victims and their friends and families need to become educators and administrators so something real gets done.

Having a bullying program is all well and good but if it isn't all inclusive from the kids to the staff to the parents it isn't worth crap, it's actually worse because if gives the district something to hide behind.

[VPStoltz]

129. This is a tragedy.

What also is a tragedy is the fact that school boards have to deal with parents of bullies who are waiving the first amendment in their faces. There is an element of "can't win if you do, can't win if you don't here."

[tinrobot]

132. Our last President was most certainly a bully as a kid.

His parents did nothing. In fact, his mother probably encouraged the behavior, ingraining it in him for life.

Look at the damage he did.

[8 track mind]

195. you know i just thought of that

Didn't he used to blow up frogs with firecrackers? He was about as smart as a jock bully. What an f-ing idiot.

[LWolf]

133. Wow.

That's terrible. My heart goes out to the young man, and his family.

I have to ask this question, though:

WHY IS A BULLY'S BEHAVIOR THE SCHOOL, OR THE DISTRICT'S "FAULT?"

Reading through the vindictive responses on this thread, I know that many are responding from memories of their own experience with bullies in school. I had them, too.



But...

Was the offender a bully because of the school? Did the school, or the teachers, teach him to be a bully?

I don't think so. I think that comes from a culture that venerates bullying in general, and from poor parenting.

I don't think schools and teachers should be held accountable for poor parenting, or a dysfunctional culture.

Here are some harsh realities:

1. Schools cannot expel all students who bully. Expulsion is a long process, and it doesn't result in putting the offending student in a program to solve problems. It often simply means sending him/her to another school.

2. Citizens don't vote for the kind of funding it would take to create school environments that did not foster bullying, especially in middle and high school. That would mean no more comprehensive schools. Small schools, with more relationship building with adults, more adults per student, more supervision, more mentoring, more time spent on social skills.

3. Citizens also don't vote for the kinds of politicians that support the foundational changes that would make the above things possible. Teachers and schools are a favorite scapegoat; people vote for politicians who support that view.

Of course, that just makes it convenient to be outraged at schools and teachers, instead of American culture, parents, and education politics.

[FedUpWithIt All]

134. Mentor high is just too big. There are a lot of benefits and a lot of drawbacks to the size.

The bullying issues in Mentor school are not limited to the high school. There are real problems at every level.

There have been a lot of suicides in Mentor in the last couple of years.

[Smarmie Doofus]

136. "Ahhh.. but don't you believe it."

>>>>>Some things never change>>>>>>

According to Bruce Hornsby these two sentiments go together.

[coffeenap]

137. Here's an idea: For parents, like me, and other interested adults:

Get in the damn high school! What is it about high school that keeps parents away? I volunteer with our GSA and when I first approached the advisor asking if he needed help, he almost fainted. NO adult had EVER even thought about helping out. These kids and countless others need understanding adults in their lives. Some of them have NEVER talked to an adult as an equal. Every adult in their lives has told them what to do, expected something specific of them, wanted them to live up to their own view of right and wrong. These young people need adults who understand them, who accept them for who they are NOW, as whole people and yet as works in progress. Go to the middle schools and the high schools--volunteer where the kids are (not just doing gift wrap sales or other bs), get into their lives, let them know someone understands them and supports them. Then, when things are really tough, maybe they won't go into that shed or basement and end it all. Maybe, somewhere inside, they will have enough faith in humanity to want to continue to participate in life. (Sorry if this offends, it is the conclusion I have come to having had the experience of having a kid, and his friends, who would have been perfect targets for bullies if we parents had not chosen an alternative plan for them.)

[TwilightGardener]

139. My younger son is bullied relentlessly in school, but doesn't want me

to intervene, because he insists it will make it worse. He's small for his age and has some learning difficulties, and doesn't have the sort of social skills to ward off the assholes and their teasing (queer, fag, etc.) and pranks, so he just sucks it up as part of school. Yesterday he came home with splatters of paint on his neck and ears--a kid in his art class shoved his face into a container of paint. His art teacher yelled at HIM instead of the little shit that did it, and my son doesn't even bother to set the record straight anymore--doesn't want to sound like a girly little snitch. I don't know how he takes it everyday, because I feel absolute murderous rage and hatred toward these snotty little fuckers (mama lion instinct coming out). And the bullies in our school are not the classic go-nowhere poor-self-esteem losers, either--they are from the wealthier, well-regarded families in our small town.

[FedUpWithIt All]

141. "they are from the wealthier, well-regarded families in our small town."

This is PRECISELY the problem with the school in the OP.

They feel that the rules that apply to themselves are different than the rules that commonly apply to everyone else.

My second daughter struggles in a sort of orbit around one of these girls in her middle school. The most insane part is that the teachers and other parents are often taken in by the facade these kids project. They can be quite charming and mannered and then turn and be coldly vicious. And the adults are often none the wiser. It is a very serious problem.

[TwilightGardener]

146. Yes, the theory that bullies are just insecure kids who need someone

to pick on to make themselves feel better just isn't true in many cases. In my town, the bullies are the kids who are PERFECTLY secure in their happy world, where the pecking order never changes (they'll be on top from kindergarten thru high school). The teachers love them, the coaches love them, and the kids who are their victims are usually the ones who are not well-liked by the teachers and coaches (like my son, who struggles academically AND athletically). In other words, these kids know they can get away with being total assholes, because they seem otherwise well-behaved and get good grades and are charming and athletic, and mommy and daddy are fine upstanding prominent citizens who own local businesses and donate to the school.

[bullwinkle428]

172. These kids grow up into adulthood to become the classic "kiss-up, kick-down"

personalities once they are employed. The kind of person that always knows how to turn on the charm when it comes to those more highly placed within the organization, that can do something to help further their career.

On the flip side, they'll use their perceived power to literally undermine/sabotage the work of those on their level, and bully and harass those under them. BEEN THERE...SEEN IT.

[kmlisle]

242. What parents can do about bullying

As a parent and middle school teacher here are some things I would try to do if my kid was being bullied.

Consider a private school or charter school or other alternative if it is available.


If you can't make that change, consider trying to influence your child's social life by helping him form some friendships that will help him at school. Maybe have him invite a few kids to go on an after school outing or have a party. Often a quiet child who is "different" does better if they manage to form a few close relationships. As for the bullies I know for a fact that they are often bullied at home by parents and siblings.

Try to provide your child with a second social group like a youth group or 4H club, etc. that give them another group of peers and the perspective that the whole world ad all their relationships are not encompassed by school. This worked especially well for my daughter when she was in High school.

Lastly I know he doesn't want you to go to the school but I think a conference is in order where you express your concerns to the teachers and ask for an administrator to be present. Sometimes a teacher will only see part of what happens in the class or things happen in the hallways that we miss and there are things we can do to influence the situation if we are aware of it.

I Think of a classroom as a community and of a big part of education consisting of relationships. My students constantly work in small groups of 2-4 and I consider social learning a very important part of understanding the subject and learning to work with others. One of my class rules is respect and I try to practice it and mode it every day towards my students.

As a biologist I have long been intrigued by the fact that physical response to bullying usually works to stop it. What evolutionary history has led us to these behavior patterns and how much does our biology keep us there? I would hope that there is some other way to deal with a bully.

[TwilightGardener]

263. Some good ideas there--can't change schools, we live way out

in a rural area and that would be impractical. I do make sure he has activities apart from school--he was in Tae Kwon Do for a few years, and that helped build his confidence and social skills, and now he's obsessed with playing his guitar and bass, which is a nice creative outlet. He has a few buddies, too--they're kind of fellow "misfits", but I'm glad he has other kids to hang out with, regardless. His teachers don't think he has too much of a problem with other kids (I've asked repeatedly over the years if he's fitting in well, or getting picked on or bullied, and they don't see it, except for the occasional fight). His coping mechanism lately is to be the goofy class clown, which certainly gets him into trouble sometimes, but seems to be the only solution for a kid who's as small as the smallest girl in his class--he's not going to make straight A's, he's not going to play football or basketball, he's not going to kick anyone's ass. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[cap]

155. message deleted

eom

[Javaman]

182. I never told my parents...

There is a certain primitive logic that applies. In the real world, it makes no sense, but in junior high or high school, it's the survival of the fittest mentality to it.

for me, it was: if I told my parents, that means several things, 1) I can't fight my own battles 2)I'm looked upon as weak 3)I will be come an easy target from now on 4)I will lose my friends because they think I'm a mamma's boy.

That's the mentality that is at work. I'm not saying that it's correct, just what goes through the mind of a boy/young man.

I have had chipped teeth, broken hands, cracked ribs, black eyes, a broken nose (yes, I did. I only had it corrected about 4 years ago), scares, bleeding, etc. How much did I tell my parents? none of it. The broken nose I hid from my parents as having "one of my bloody noses" which I would get from time to time. The black eyes, I would just wear sunglasses until I went to school or got up late and dashed off before they could see me and nurse it with ice by myself.

I hated junior high, hated it. I hated high school.

girls get massive social pressure that result in various psychological problems (your fat, your poor, your ugly, we don't like you, we hate you. Also the gang mentality of ostracizing or banishment) And the occasional fight. boys: we get beaten up time and time again.

[TwilightGardener]

187. That's horrible--but I understand the reluctance to have parents get involved.

I back off on my son's situation (meaning, I haven't called these other parents or the principal yet) because I don't want to make things worse for him, and I also want him to have some sense of pride and control--although I have discussed the bullying with his teachers in the past, in the hopes that they would recognize it and quickly shut it down. Recently, our new principal has posted "Bully-Free Zone" signs around the school, so someone is at least realizing there's a problem. But hearing your story, it does make me sad that my son will probably not look back on his school years fondly, but rather with a sense of relief that they're over. He does have a few friends, and participates in band, chorus, etc.--those are his bright spots, and I'm grateful for that.

[Javaman]

209. The after school programs were my salvation as well.

They helped keep my sanity.

Something does need to be done with bullying but I think that the approach needs to be dealt with in a logical manner.

I mean, the issues with the people who do the bullying range far and wide. Bad home life, poor self esteem, over inflated sense of ego or entitlement, etc. So it's really hard, I think sometimes, for administrators to properly deal with the various situations and how to blunt them properly.

not being a parent nor a teacher, I can only speak from personal experience, but I think needless to say, apologies need to be said, but that someone giving the apology without understanding the reason or the seriousness of the situation solves nothing.

it may sound weird, but like adults who act like bullies and jerks in the work place, there should be an empathy/anger management punishment type of situation. Teach these bullies cause and effect. I think that is what is desperately missing from various punishments and from the bullies emotional make up.

But alas, I think that a program such as that would only be successful if several things are met 1) rational parents who are willing to work with the school 2) a home life that is conducive to learning 3) a role model that offers something for the bully to aspire to other than anger.

Sadly, most bullies, not all, but generally come from a dysfunctional household. So the issue becomes, not only educating the student but also having to deal with combative parents who feel that their little darling can do no wrong. "my father beat me, I turned out okay!" That kind of mentality.

From personal experience, I got through it, it sucked, but I did. And frankly, upon reflection, I think my parents had an idea, but I was pretty good about keeping to myself. And being in my mid 40's and my parents having me late in life, I think they had a bit of the old world kind of thinking going on. "it'll toughen him up". I guess, but I can't fault them either. Bullying, once upon a time, was looked upon as a hellish right of passage in publics schools. But then again, my parents when to school in the 1930's and I'm sure things were a little different then.

The one thing it taught me more than anything was how not to be. I learned a lot by negative example from the bullies.

[renate]

240. how impossibly difficult for both of you

I'm sure your heart hurts as much as his does (though there's a difference in the kind of hurt, you being an adult and a mama lion and wanting more than anything on earth to keep your child from this, and he being a kid and the one who's going through it first-hand. Both kinds are excruciating). I know that a parent can only do so much to take the pain away, but I'm glad he has a loving and supportive family at home. :hug: to you both.

[TwilightGardener]

262. Thanks!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

285. Have you considered karate lessons?

Or some other martial arts?

If you find the right instructor, they'll help your son learn how to avoid conflict as well as how to defend himself. I wish I'd taken it when I was a kid. I dealt with the teasing with anger, much to the delight of those who heckled me.

[ismnotwasm]

143. God I despise those little shits

I wasn't bullied, but I could have been, being very shy until I was about 11. I despise the cruelty that passes for teenage sophistication. I hate this whole "lets see how much we can humiliate someone" whether it's on school grounds, rock concerts or on-line.

Raising my own 4 children, I never let them play me. If I ever, EVER found out they were involved in this kind of thing they would have wished they turned 18 a hell of a lot sooner. If I ever found out they were being bullied like this, my response would not have been civilized, and it would have been personal.

These fucked up little pukes do grow up and become leaders. Some of them may come to an understanding how disgusting their behavior was, and some of them will brag about what they used to do. The latter ones are frightening.

My heart goes out to those who lost their loved ones. All I can do about it is this; I have one grandson who is 10. I'm his Nana and he's at the age where he likes to talk and figure things out. He's a well liked kid, with a good moral sense. That doesn't mean we don't discuss the rights and wrongs of how to be a decent human being. Or how to expect to be treated by others.

If I hear about bulling from any source, I vow to speak up, raise hell, and I have. My husband is even more of an advocate for kids.

This never should have been allowed to happen. I'm just sick.

[feslen]

159. re: bullying

I have read DU for awhile now, but not been motivated to write much until this came up.

I too, thought of suicide and was bullied by not just one bully, but many throughout most of high school. If it weren't for the support of my nucleus family and real friends outside of high school, I might have gone down that road. I was picked on because: I was different due to my disability, and maybe because I was one of six minority kids in the damned school and I was and still am your typical, silent nerdy guy, more of "intellectual than a jock".

The bullying came mostly from one bully, but I was picked on universally due to my social awkwardness. They bullied me until I was a sophmore...that was the day I stood up for myself in front of the entire class.

One day, I had had enough and kicked that asshole in the shins and stomped on his feet until he screamed out with pain. Imagine, a five foot tall, skinny Asian kid beating up a six foot tall stronger-looking guy? I also exchanged very verbal insults with those bullying me, and I won of course, being that I have a larger brain capacity and verbal dictionary. After that they all left me alone, someone NOT to be trifled with!

It still hurt me for a long while, but I finally let go of the past prejudices and pain and learned to deal with bullies and idiots. I remember them, but I have moved on...

and I still have to sometimes deal with bullying from adults.

I don't know if bullying can be stopped simply with a law in place.

my prayers go to that family who lost their son...may justice prevail!!

[renate]

241. good for you!

:thumbsup:

Intellectually I always think that violence should be the very very last resort... but 1) sometimes it's literally the only language that a damaged person like that can understand, and 2) it's always okay to defend yourself, and this was a case of self-defense to save your life.

I'm so glad that you were eventually left alone, and I'm so glad you decided to join and write a post. Welcome!

[T Wolf]

147. My guidance counselor wife has been dealing with bullying in schools for over 25 years.

Her take is one of zero tolerance - the school she is now in has that policy, even for "fighting back."

Physical violence is absolutely forbidden, and punished without exception. If a child is attacked, they are supposed to seek adult help.

Now, this will work in a perfect environment where the teachers and administrators completely and impartially enforce the rules. The key is that the school has to be proactive and clearly communicate that to all - students, parents, and staff. Any breakdown in that "united front" against bullying greatly diminishes the effectiveness of the effort.

For those of us who have seen too many years, this flies in the face of the "sometimes you have to defend yourself" "common sense" that we grew up with. Her answer is that violence solves nothing except to reinforce the notion that might makes right. For all who have suffered at the hands of bullies or seen it (has anyone not?), the policy may seem harsh.

But, over the years, I have come to accept her wisdom and experience in this matter.

The key is that united front that all must take against those who would exploit the weaker among us. Unfortunately, this "passive" approach goes against a basic American personality trait - rewarding the most aggressive.

Thus, I think, bullying is a perfect metaphor for much that is wrong with our society. And it illustrates the difficulties that we would experience if we were to try and change the basic personality of our society.

But, if we can make it work in the schools, with our children, there might be hope for all of us.

[HelenWheels]

158. Even inmates are allowed ot defend themselves

until help, officers, show up. Zero tolerance doesn't work the bullies are very good at torturing a kid and timing it so the teacher sees only the kid "defending" themselves. The victim really isn't defending themselves because both they and their attacker know they are unequally matched to go one on one physically - the victim is just lashing out in extreme frustration. To punish all "violence" the same is a way to sweep the problem under the rug - instead of bullying it gets classified under fighting.

Bullies aren't low on self esteem, which is the common myth, but they are good a picking out a kid that isn't able to defend themselves.

[Lilith Velkor]

201. "Seek adult help," even if a bigger child is sitting on them

People like your wife are part of the problem. They teach bullies that they can get the school to treat their victims as criminals.

That policy is going to bite them in the ass one of these days. The sooner, the better IMO.

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

148. gay bashing kids grow up to be gay bashing adults

THis would never be allowed if the bullies were using racial slurs or religious ones.

[BonnieJW]

151. When my oldest daughter was in the fifth grade,

she was bullied by two girls. I met with her teachers who had no idea this was going on. The teachers contacted the mothers who subsequently called me and assured me their girls were "good girls" and would never do such things. I got no where. We put our daughter into a private school for her sixth grade and she flourished. Unfortunately, one year of private school was all we could afford and had to put her back in public school for junior high. She had grown to 5'8" tall, was beautiful and because of the previous year, very confident. No one bothered her any more.

The main thing that helped my daughter was the knowledge that her father and I would not allow anything bad to happen to her and would do whatever was necessary to keep her safe and happy.

[ThatsMyBarack]

154. Um....Where to start, where to start....

Here's one of my own examples:

My best friend in 6th grade became my worst enemy in 8th grade. For years, I thought it was MY OWN FAULT that she made every day of my 8th-grade life hell:

"You are so UGLY!!"
"Look at this girl! Isn't she UGLY?!"
"Stupid SCUUUUUMMM!!!!"
"BITCH!!!"

Later on, she became a high-school cheerleader. Today, she's "happily" married, while I am still single.

[Blue Diadem]

162. That's sad. It's unfortunate that it exists in our society and it happens

everywhere; in school, at work, in families, in neighborhoods and even in cyberspace.

We have seen that the anti-bullying program isn't working in our local district. It depends on the enforcement. At our local elementary, we discovered that bullying problems were being handled by a peer group who would laugh and giggle when the incidents would be described, further isolating the victim/s while encouraging the behavior. No adult was present during these "mediations" which made it all the more embarassing for those who were the victims.

I agree with your statement. I also think you'll find most bullies are popular, part of a group and often encouraged by either parental or some authority figure's reaction. I've seen it begin as early as pre-school and kindergarten when kids make fun of other kid's clothing, hair styles, facial features or size. While someone may tell them that it isn't nice, they are often just repeating what they hear their parents/older siblings/adults say about others.

Edited to add:

I'm glad Eric's parents have filed the lawsuit. My heart breaks to know that kids feel such pain created by others, that they take their lives to end it.

[CreekDog]

164. So we have zero tolerance for a cake knife, but this was allowed to go on for how long?

:wtf:

[Imagevision]

165. If it's reported and the schools do nothing to remedy the problem they will be held responsible

the fact that suicides are happening is a travesty in these times, wake the fuck up principal's.

[romerotpr1970]

170. Home school

This is one of the reasons I home school my kids. The teachers
are as bad if not worse than the kids. They make you feel like
you are the problem if you complain about something, I know
this first hand when I had an aid bulling on my disabled son.
When word got back to me by the bus driver and a teacher, then
I was branded as a trouble maker for going to school and
raising hell over the abuse that was going on in a special
needs class. So if the parents don't care their kids are
bullies then the bully teachers are not going to care. And
some of these poor kids I'm sure feel helpless and how are
they to learn when they go to school in fear. Sad, most
schools are just bad and I think it is just a big game to the
school system, its a place for them to have a job. It is
hardly ever about them wanting to help kids. Like I said this
has been my experience, But I must say I find the system has
gotten worse since about the mid 90's. Because when my
daughter who is now 21 started school it was totally
different. If you went to school with a problem they helped
you ,what a difference a couple of years make. I pulled my 2nd
daughter out of school in her 5th year of school and my
youngest will never see the inside of a school. I work at home
so I'm able to do this. As For as my son who is disabled he is
at a different school but I am all over them like flies on you
know what,and I don't put up with anything.

[Kerrytravelers]

272. While I may think that there are lot of generalizations in your post, I work for an Independent

Study Program in which many of our students have chosen our program because of bullying (either of them or of other children,) and wanted a different enviornment. Our program is staffed by credentialed teachers.

Not all teachers are the problem. And sometimes people don't act the way we think they should. The bullying situation at our schools has become a jumbled mess of heirachy backing away from leadership, teachers trying to maintain children who are growing angrier and angrier and feeling more hopeless. And we have a society that cheers winning at all costs.

Good luck with homeschooling. There is a Homeschooling forum here that is helpful and there are tons of resources out there to help families.

[crim son]

171. The school should be sued.

However I take exception to the idea that it's only the upper class and their parents who are responsible for the bullying. In my area it's quite the opposite; having three nerdy kids I have vast experience with morons from both sides of the tracks.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

202. at my school the bullies were almost exclusively white trash

who hated the relatively prosperous immigrants who after 5 years in America had overtaken their families by a mile.

[crim son]

225. That's my experience here.

I can think of only one kid who bullied and was from the middle or upper middle class, and his parents were in the middle of a wicked divorce. Of course, now it's two years later and he's still a serious little shit. It probably depends where you live and the makeup of your local society. This isn't a wealthy town i.e. there is very great wealth but in the hands of relatively few, and those kids are successful, well behaved and civic minded, by and large. Poverty pisses people off, and kids who are suffering take it out on their peers.

[Oak2004]

266. What I think is most likely is that bullies come from the extremes

and they do so because sociopathy has a genetic component, and in our society, sociopaths gravitate to both socioeconomic poles.

Our "competitive" society rewards clever sociopaths who bend and break the rules for personal gain and who run roughshod over others to get ahead, so that our upper classes are heavy with sociopathic personalities, and our lower classes are peppered with the-not-so-clever sociopaths who resort to brute force, and who have fallen into the classic pattern of a criminal record, spousal abuse and with it an unstable family life, and chemical dependency. Both groups' kids are at higher risk of becoming sociopaths themselves, and bullying is one of the earliest signs of sociopathic tendencies.

You can draw a direct line between playground bullies at a grade school, the sociopaths that have crashed this economy, and our serial murderers and thrill murderers. Failing to address school bullying now guarantees we'll be dealing with more of the other two (and others like them who've chosen different paths to destruction) later.

[HughBeaumont]

198. Anyone needs any insight on how NEO suburbs/rural cities are . .

. . . and the lowest common denominators these small cities, towns and villages shit out, one needn't look any further than a lot of the "he asked for it by not defending himself" comments on this site:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/parent_of_mentor_boy_who_kille.html

Simply Stunning.

[ChromeFoundry]

205. The comments in this link are troubling...

Right now, I'm embarrassed to be from this area. Some people are real idiots.

[HughBeaumont]

213. Oxygen thieves. Seriously.

Not every kid is physically able to defend themselves and in a lot of cases, they can get in trouble for doing so. Also, how does one know if they defend themselves, the bullying will stop? That doesn't happen all the time. If anything, it only makes the bully angrier and make he/she do something regrettable that will ruin all lives involved.

Love how people can get into this "well why didn't he stick up for himself" shit when there are a lot of factors involved in fighting that they're not looking at.

[ChromeFoundry]

221. Every school has a Zero Tolerance policy...

This is supposed to thwart kids from trying to defend themselves and have the administration determine who is at fault - right? Actually, it goes one step further... if one kid walks up to another kid and punches him in the face, they are both expelled. There is always going to be one kid that receives the brunt of abuse in any size class... I will bet that the administration was well aware of the abuse this child had to endure over the years. If they did nothing, then they are partially at fault. I think it would be difficult to charge the bully for any criminal charges in this case... but, if anything comes from this, I hope a few kids walk away from this understand how we should and should not treat one another.

[PM Martin]

223. Secondary Schools are run by cockroaches.

[OhioChick]

233. Wow....

I didn't even read all of the responses. I can't imagine how the parents feel, losing their child and reading some of that ignorant shit.

[Deja Q]

254. Holy fucking shit.

They're the same sort of vermin who likely say "She asked for it because she was wearing skimpy clothing". (Looking doesn't equate to being; why can't Neanderthals understand that basic premise??)


America's schools are out of control. CHANGE is needed. Instant change.

[chrisa]

199. Sociopaths.

They love the feeling of power that is associated with bullying. They likely don't feel any guilt at all, and will move on to the next victim.

Some kids (like these bullies) can't be helped.

[yurbud]

207. teachers who turn a blind eye identify with the bullies--not that they were popular as kids

themselves, but they were the kids that stood behind the bully and laughed while he tormented his victims.

[yurbud]

208. coaches are notorious for coddling bullies, especially if they are on the team

at my high school, the coach taught health, and he pretty much talked to the jocks and ignored the rest of us.

When I was working on my high school teaching certificate, I worked in a classroom with a football coach who was an English department chair and it was clear he could not have given a shit less about what he was teaching.

If they need to give coaches jobs off the athletic field let them be janitors or secretaries, anything where they don't have power over regular students.

Better yet, we should separate sports from the schools and have athletic clubs like they do in Britain.

[panzerfaust]

276. Absolutely

[JerseygirlCT]

211. I'm glad they're doing this

Sometimes the only thing that will force the adults to take this seriously is something like this.

The adults who saw this happening and did nothing are so despicable. No child should have to put up with that, and know that his teacher thinks it's acceptable.

[kleec]

216. Here's an example of grownup bulling!

I received this in my email today from Media Matters, which reflects how the young bullies will probably evolve into this kind of bully. This from a segment of Limbaugh's radio program. Just an older bully which is not a surprise to many of us!


Anyway, Rush went on to explain to the caller that there are two ways to challenge the Obama administration -- one effective and the other ineffective. The ineffective route, according to Limbaugh, is to challenge the administration on policy grounds, because people aren't going to listen to it. The effective route is to "irritate" the White House by teasing and mocking Obama. Now we understand why Rush makes the same teleprompter jokes over and over.

[New Dawn]

226. School bullies = future Republican operatives.

[Iris]

229. "the quiet but likable boy" - painful to read.

why?

[burning rain]

234. It's noble of the parents not to seek monetary damages.....

but I suspect it's less likely that they'll effect as much of a change in the school's policies if they don't hit them financially. I'd suggest suing the school for a whopping sum and donating it to charity.

[Skwmom]

236. I agree.

[Skwmom]

235. I really wish Michelle Obama would tackle this issue.

I think she could do a lot of good in this area and she obviously loves kids.

I read the story. The links to the boy's myspace page are heartbreaking. :(

[Deja Q]

253. This is something we ALL need to be involved with.

We can all beg, plead, show charts, tell rationale... but if the politicians don't follow through, then we have to take the risks and correct wrongdoing. See some brat do something antisocial? Correct them. In public if need be.

[BreweryYardRat]

243. Parents and future parents: take it from someone who's been there.

The ONLY way a bully stops bullying you is if they get physically hurt because of it, or if they mature out of it. (And that last doesn't happen too often.)

Ignoring them doesn't work. Being passive-aggressive doesn't work. Asking them to stop doesn't work. Taking it to the administration may cut back on it, but it's a lot more likely that the administrators don't give a shit. Home-schooling only works if you and your child get along.

Teaching your child not to make inane comments, and to have basic hygiene (this one should be obvious, but my mother was too goddamn senile to figure it out), will reduce the odds of bullying.

I was bullied from sixth grade until sophomore year of high school -- physically, socially, and emotionally -- and it drastically contributed to my current state of "thoroughly fucked-up." I had a nervous breakdown at 12 years old. For years, my reaction to anyone touching me from behind was to whirl and put them in a wristlock. Now I've got rage issues, socialization issues, depression that was exacerbated by the bullying, and a disregard for human life that means I have to keep myself under iron self-control. (Using hyperbole on the Internet is a useful way of venting. Gaming and lifting weights also help.) There are still a few people I'd thoroughly enjoy torturing and killing.

And I was lucky enough to mostly have sympathetic teachers, and have a guidance counselor in high school who actually cared about me...and then got promoted to head of the department.

My parents backed me up when it came to pulling me out of schools where I was really getting abused, but they didn't do shit to help me deal with the actual bullies.

For those kids who aren't physically a match for a bully, teach them tricks that don't require much physical strength. Kicking someone in the back of the kneecap, or the balls, preferably with steel-toed boots, is one of the easiest things to learn. Joint locks also work well. Leverage is good for more than just joint locks -- I had two bullies in high school completely stop being a problem after I slammed them into hard surfaces. Convincing your kid to take up weight-lifting can help even out physical differences.

And if all else fails, give your kids a hand beating up the bullies. Catch them off-campus and alone, then beat the crap out of them. Finally: if it's a choice between killing a bully or having your child commit suicide, that's no choice at all. Kill the bully, then feed the body to pigs or dump it somewhere it'll never be found.

[file83]

245. Damn.

I feel sorry for the next unfortunate soul who decides to mess with you or your family. LOL - they won't know what hit 'em!!!

[panzerfaust]

278. By the time I was seven, I was carrying a switch-blade

We lived in the slums in Cleveland at the time. I was about the only white kid in my school. Fortunately, the only harm I caused with the blade was carving graffiti on things (No, I have no idea WHY I was doing that), but simply pulling it out of my pocket and pushing the button to snap open saved me from trouble several times.

Until years later when I started jr-highschool (about 4 towns later) where, of all things, I got into trouble for having it! Go figure. Anyhow, simply having showed up on the first day with a blade (and so getting suspended for a bit) got me in with the 'hoods', so no one messed with me at that school. And as the other group that I hung with there were the 'egg-heads' I would have been a prime target.

Sadly - well happily actually, in the larger course of my life - we moved again for my last two years of highschool (Seattle), and I had to start all over again. My first day there I had met an exchange student from Finland. We were playing chess in study hall, the 6'7" captain of the foot-ball team showed up, you can imagine what happened. Of course, I was the one sent to the principal's office by the study hall monitor (who was a coach).

God I hated school, and the teachers who allowed this crap to go on.

I believe that public schools should be abolished, and, therefore, have never, and will never, vote for any tax support of public, non-college schools.

Close 'em down, says I.

[PM Martin]

284. Horrible.

[bobburgster]

249. Teachers Beware.....Sometimes a single sarcastic remark can...

doom a child to becoming a focus of bullies.

[Deja Q]

251. Freedom of speech, "boys will be boys", anyone defending these bully punks should shoot themselves.

A survivor of shit like what's posted in that article myself, I am boiling livid over the devolution of society. The bully should be exterminated. He is the one who won't be missed, and who is good for nothing.

And that's all I've got to say.

[bottomtheweaver]

274. Math teacher coach -- there's the problem right there.

This clown probably knew less math than the kids he allowed or more likely encouraged the athletes in his class to bully. I've seen this movie before, thankfully at a distance.

[panzerfaust]

277. I wish that there WERE something for these poor people to "win"

Schools ENCOURAGE bullying (e.g.): http://news.aol.com/article/high-school-cage-fight/390108

In many cases TEACHERS ARE the bullies: I will not, again, recount here my memories of public schools (the last time, it left me sleepless and irritable for three days) - but I will here repeat that one incident which defines for me the essence of teachers, schools, and administrators:

...sent to the vice-principal’s office early in my 'schooling' for having gotten caught with a comic book in reading class (where everyone else was, literally, reading "Dick and Jane"). When asked why I was there, I replied “For reading in reading class.” This resulted in his using the long paddle with the holes bored into it, instead of the usual, shorter paddle without holes. The length, and the holes, made the subsequent “whacks” just that more painful.

When 'teachers' single out, ridicule, and 'discipline' one because one is intelligent, how can it be thought that the student's fellows will not do the same?

My experience is that those students most likely to bully are rich-kid jocks (or the equivalent in poorer schools). Given the 'importance' of their athletic prowess to the schools, not to mention the importance of their parents in the community, they are never held to account for their behavior.

My conclusion is that ...

... public schools are simply institutions of socialization to cultural norms - that is to say institutions, of repression and regimentation - and believe they should be abolished.

I appreciated the irony of the recent mention of the president of an outlaw motorcycle chapter in Oz who roared up with a pack of "...the biggest, hairiest bikies he could find" on his little girl's first day of school - because he was worried about her being bullied, and wanted to make it clear to those at the school of how bad of an idea this would be.

If more parents were that proactive, perhaps bullying at - and by - schools would stop. I bet it would.

My heart goes out to Eric's parents, and I hope they can win this battle to force the faceless, bullying, uncaring school system and teachers to face their own responsibility.

For the bullies, I have no hope.




(sorry for the dup, put it in the wrong place originally, and it is too late for me to delete it there)

[progressivebydesign]

279. I was bullied, and my sister was bullied worse. There is MORE to suicide than bullying.

There are underlying issues that the parents refuse to address. Bullying sucks, and life is hard. You aren't supposed to get rich because your kid committed suicide. Does it make me a republican to have a total distaste for the grieving parent lottery which is America now???

[TwilightGardener]

281. Did you miss the part where the parents will use any award to pay

for school awareness programs? I for one have NO problem keeping schools on their toes on this issue. They BEST be taking it seriously, or go bankrupt in a lawsuit and make property taxes go up. The teachers, coaches and staff are the adults in charge, it's their responsibility to ensure a civil and supportive learning environment.

[bitchkitty]

283. I hope they win.

Schools need to do their part here. I'm willing to bet that the bullies wouldn't bully others in front of their parents - but some teachers let this go on right in front of their faces.

I hope they win, and I hope they smack them HARD. Stop this shit once and for all. Children aren't cretins and they shouldn't be allowed to act as if they are.

[HelenWheels]

287. Well said and I'll second that! nt

[goforit]

291. Withall the unemployed people out there, certainly the Highschool can find a better principal