Pentagon exploring robot killers that can fire on their own

[kpete]

Source: McClatchy

* Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Pentagon exploring robot killers that can fire on their own

By Robert S. Boyd | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — The unmanned bombers that frequently cause unintended civilian casualties in Pakistan are a step toward an even more lethal generation of robotic hunters-killers that operate with limited, if any, human control.

The Defense Department is financing studies of autonomous, or self-governing, armed robots that could find and destroy targets on their own. On-board computer programs, not flesh-and-blood people, would decide whether to fire their weapons.

"The trend is clear: Warfare will continue and autonomous robots will ultimately be deployed in its conduct," Ronald Arkin, a robotics expert at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, wrote in a study commissioned by the Army.

"The pressure of an increasing battlefield tempo is forcing autonomy further and further toward the point of robots making that final, lethal decision," he predicted. "The time available to make the decision to shoot or not to shoot is becoming too short for remote humans to make intelligent informed decisions."

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/64779.html

[ShortnFiery]

1. Well what do you expect? That annual 512 Billion Dollar budget isn't gonna spend itself.

:eyes:

[Yunomi]

2. DUDE!!

I saw that movie!!

[gratuitous]

3. I can always tell who's going to win a fight

If one guy is standing off, jabbing and tentatively probing his opponent's defenses, and the other guy is willing to take a hit or two to get in close and really jackhammer his opponent, it's no contest. The U.S. military is getting more and more stand-offish, less willing to risk injuries or losses in attaining an objective. It's a pretty good recipe for failure, and if our finest military minds are no longer risking troops, why don't we cut out this whole charade and disband the military? Let's get going on diplomacy and negotiation, because if your military is too valuable to get messed up in combat, you're going to lose an armed confrontation.

Bring the troops home now. The only thing worse than all the meaningless death and destruction is to dick around for another six months or a year or longer and have even more meaningless death and destruction.

[Tim01]

23. The robot troops make war more palatable to the American public.

There are plenty of warriors ready to mix it up,but if the body count goes up, Americans complain. They are working on waging war without getting ourselves dirty.

[madeline_con]

36. I'm looking at it from another angle.

As our "overseas adventures" wane in popularity with the public, it will be increasingly more difficult to find humans willing to do the Pentagon's dirty work. They have to find something to do the job without sympathy or remorse, and the resultant depression and suicide after they get back.

[Webster Green]

4. What could possibly go wrong with this brilliant idea?

Another huge waste of taxpayer dollars on death and destruction. :grr:

[Occulus]

10. And you thought "Galactica" was just a good TV show

It's interesting and not-so-amusing that we may have to seriously consider the events that take place on that series in the coming decades.

The idea of malevolent, self-aware, completely autonomous machines is a none-too-farfetched concept.

[cobalt1999]

12. "Self aware" or "conscious" is a long way off though

We don't really have a good enough understanding of how the cerebral cortex learns and processes information to begin to replicate it in a computer...YET.

I think we are probably 20-50 years out from truly intelligent machines vs. "artificial" intelligent machines. Even then they wouldn't have emotions unless someone worked out how that works and replicates it in too.

I don't think we have to worry about "malevolent, self-aware, completely autonomous machines" in the near future, if ever.

[Solon]

30. I don't think it would be necessary to program a human brain exactly into a computer...

for said computer to be able to exhibit what we would call sapience. Emergence may come into play, similarly to how some robots learned how to walk on their own, rather than having it programmed in by a human, all you may need is a computer that can process information similarly to a human brain, and store enough information to have intelligence emerge on its own. Simple software, that give basic instructions, but no more than that, may be all that is needed, such as telling the computer to learn and accumulate information maybe all that is needed. I'm oversimplifying slightly, and this is still theoretical, but its also possible considering that it has been demonstrated before.

Not to mention that it may be limiting to consider the human, or even biological brains at all, as the only model possible for emulation in an environment to create a machine brain that exhibits sapience. Indeed, I strongly doubt that an emulation of the Human brain could possibly ever be accurate enough to allow for the flexibility needed for the emergence of sapience in a computer.

[cobalt1999]

32. Have you read "On Intelligence"?

If not, you'd probably enjoy it. It covers many of the same topics and does so well.

[madeline_con]

35. After all, "self-governing, armed robots" are a great idea!

[Soylent Brice]

5. like the hummer, will it eventually be available for puchase by the public?

[Occulus]

7. Sure they will, eventually

They'll be nicknamed "Toasters".



One for the house, and one for the yard.

[Soylent Brice]

11. !

:rofl:

[Dr.Phool]

16. I have killer robot in my house.

It vacuums the floor, and chases the dog around! Hasn't shot anybody yet.

[christx30]

46. actually,

from what I read on the subject, the company that makes the Roomba (Irobot) is the same company that is making these things.
So watch that roomba of yours. It's younger cousins just got into the Army.

And I don't think it is an accident that the article uses the phrase "hunter-killers"

[The Stranger]

6. Skynet.

Life imitates art.

[Duer 157099]

8. I vascilate between wondering whether our architects pay too much or too little

attention to sci fi literature. Kind of a chicken-n-egg thing goin' on.

:shrug:

[cobalt1999]

9. The technology to do this is cool though

A successful autonomous robot would have a myriad of applications outside of the military.

[myrna minx]

13. Until they rebel against us, go underground, only to return

looking exactly like us and blending in with us, to nuke all of our colonies, causing us to flee into the Universe to find, uh, Earth...

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

26. Where does the robot sex come in...

Half a trillion in R&D? Somebody better get laid!

[myrna minx]

29. I'm sure there is some sort of lever that can switch the killbot into a thrillbot, but it probably

requires an allen wrench, so it can be a little tricky.

[ElboRuum]

14. ZOMG! We're considering HKs!!!!

Haven't three Terminator movies really sunk into any one that you should really think about it before you create Skynet?

[JDPriestly]

15. So that's why they need to reform Social Security -- so they can afford these nasty toys.

Boys Gone Wild, that is what it is. Stop them before they get completely out of control.

[sofa king]

17. What could possibly go wrong?

In other news, DoD biologists report limited success in increasing the size of lab rats a thousand-fold, while others are experimenting with replacing soldiers' skeletons with rare alloys.

All of these venues of inquiry are expected to produce elevated comic book sales.

[FailureToCommunicate]

18. If only Isaac Asimov had written on this subject. Or Alfred Bester. Hmmm. Wonder

what they'd say.

If Killer robots are outlawed, only outlaws will have killer robots.

[WriteDown]

19. Reminds me a bit of this video...

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/experts_agree_giant_razor_clawed

[TacticalPeek]

20. Who makes them?

iRubout?

[acmavm]

21. Lovely! People are homeless and starving and the thugs in the Pentagon

waste billions figure out how to kill without ever being there. They take the really cowardly fucking way to go, you won't even have to look your enemy in the eye, you'll just have some computerized metal monster snuff out his life.

Golly, they're outsourcing wholescale carnage, mayhem, and murder to droids. What will the troops do? Going the Indian Army?

[Judi Lynn]

39. I'm glad you took the time to connect this to the living world of human beings who are allegedly

raised to live with a conscientious view of life, their responsibility, and other people.

As it was mentioned during the Watergate hearings, one of Nixon's staff said "We lost our moral compasses." Looks as if every effort has been made since then to make sure no one ever finds them again.

Making sure no one is involved who will ever wake up screaming after having witness the destruction of living people someone here wanted to slaughter is not really the solution.

I feel sick more people haven't felt it's wrong to produce killing machines and bypass moral resposibility altogether, and so glad to see your comments.

[acmavm]

40. Thanks! Remember the movie Patton? Remember the scene

at the beginning where old George C. is spouting that crap about the glories of battle? Remember that old canard about the glory of battle? The pitting of enemy against enemy?

They used to use that shit as a kind of 'justification' for military slaughter.

Now apparently they're gonna just dump that old mortal combat excuse and go for just plain butchery.

[Judi Lynn]

42. Hope their plans will backfire on them. They've gone too far over the line. n/t

[AKing]

22. Welcome to "Western World 2020"

[LynnTheDem]

24. All I can do anymore is just shake my head.

What the rest of the WORLD will do/needs to do...well, were I the rest of the world, I know what the answer would be.

And it's not the answer I'd want, being part of this country, rather than part of the rest of the world.

Sigh.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

25. The Daleks are Coming!

[myrna minx]

27. Exterminate! Ha, we probably have the Doctor stored at Gitmo. n/t

[Thor_MN]

28. OK, but anyone who approves, must accept moving their office adjacent to the testing range.

I think the inner courtyard of the Pentagon would make an excellent test area. Those who approve get inner ring window offfices. Tests must be conducted with live ammo and bullet proof windows are not allowed.

[Blackhatjack]

31. TERMINATORS!!! Here sooner than anyone throught ...

Look at any electronic device in your home, and especially your computer, and ask the question "Has it ever malfunctioned and done something it was not intended to do?"

Apply that question to any robot hunter-killer that the Pentagon can create.

Add to it the question "What if we just allow the robot hunter-killer to decide when and who it will fire upon without first getting authorization from a human?"

Now... do you feel safer?

[christx30]

47. Plus,

you need to look at the possibility of human tampering. I mean, what is to stop the "enemy" from capturing one of the (what are we calling them? Killbots? Terminators? Cylons?) robots and tampering with it to turn on us? Or, hell, just put a fraking bomb somewhere in it?
Can't just reprogram a human like that.

And I propose for the duration of this conversation we call them terminators.

[ForrestGump]

33. Will they have Austrian accents?

Will they want everyone's jackets, boots, and motorcyles?

And if both sides have such robots at some point, how can you tell when the war is won? I mean, I'd rather have robots getting totaled than human GIs, but it does kinda highlight the pointlessness of much human conflict (well, I guess it'd be only semi-human conflict).

You really would think that the movies and stories written as cautionary tales relative to just such an outcome might sink in enough that robot armies are not really favored as a great innovation. I sure hope they don't run on Windows Vista...

[ElboRuum]

43. The winner would be the one that runs out of parts last.

I can just imagine the conversation in the war room.

Major Minor: Sir! We just ran out of actuating rotator renooberative discombobulators!

General Specific: Skip the technical crap, Minor! What are you trying to tell me?!

Major Minor: *sigh*... We ran out of thingamajigs to fix the troops.

General Specific: What you say?

Major Minor: *heavy sigh*... All our base are belong to them, sir.

General Specific: Are you saying that we haven't got one... er... thingamajig... left?!

Major Minor: Yessir.

General Specific: Corporal Punishment, get over here!

Corporal Punishment: *snaps a crisp salute* Yessir!

General Specific: Take Private Public and scour every junkyard to find some... some...

Major Minor: Actuating rotator renooberative discombobulators, sir.

General Specific: Yes, thank you major... those whoosiwhatsits. I don't care what condition they're in. Go rec out a deuce-and-a-half from Colonel Mustard down in supply, tell him its under my orders, authorization through me ONLY. If word gets out of this, we'll have a real morale problem on our hands.

Corporal Punishment: Yessir.

Major Minor: General, we've looked high and low, but our parts suppliers just can't pump out replacement parts fast enough. If this keeps up, we'll run out of active HK's within a week, and then the war is pretty much over.

General Specific: I know, Major. What's the total body count... both sides.

Major Minor: Let me just bring up the numbers... OK, it appears we lost 1 soldier in a car accident on the freeway driving in to the complex and 7 civilians when one of the HK's malfunctioned and went off course, crashing into a Home Depot parking lot. Oh. And we lost 46 deer.

General Specific: 46 deer?

Major Minor: Yessir. Apparently one HK had a malfunctioning threat recognition chip and began mistaking white-tail deer for enemy units. It managed to kill 46 of them before we shot it down.

General Specific: Why hadn't I been informed?

Major Minor: Didn't seem worth your notice, sir, the incident occurred during hunting season, so no one ever questioned the cause.

General Specific. I see. Very well. What about the other side?

Major Minor: Approximately the same totals, sir. Although, and this is interesting, they did lose one ground unit under odd circumstances.

General Specific: What circumstances?

Major Minor: One unit experienced a power spike during a recharge, gained self-awareness, and disappeared off of one of their bases.

General Specific: Did they ever recover it?

Major Minor: Well, that seems to have been hushed up pretty well, but rumors were circulated that it's happy to be free and staying with Steve Guttenberg and Ally Sheedy.

General Specific: War is hell.

[Renew Deal]

34. Awesome!

:nuke:

[Hugabear]

37. Ban this NOW

We should take immediate steps to HALT development on this and similar autonomous projects, and ban their use. What the FUCK? We're talking about giving real life-and-death decisions to a fucking COMPUTER. A device that does not have human emotion, that could kill a 12-yr old child just as easily as a terrorist armed with a machine gun.

[pinniped]

38. They've seen Terminator too many times.

When are they gonna build Skynet?

[semillama]

41. Let me be the first to make a Robocop reference.

[MilesColtrane]

44. So much for Asimov's First Law.

[mbperrin]

45. Can I have my national health insurance now, please?

Huh, please?

[yurbud]

48. that was Schwarzenegger's job before he ran for governor.

[Blue_Tires]

49. robots are expensive and don't make for good TV war footage

so why not have an army full of cloned super-soldiers with modified genetics?

[Renew Deal]

50. Are you kidding? These guys look great

[Blue_Tires]

51. they got their scrawny asses handed to them, too....

[mvd]

52. No. Absolutely oppose this

x(