17 Are Dead in Plane Crash in Montana

[Are_grits_groceries]

Source: NYT

BUTTE, Mont. (AP) -- A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman says 17 people are dead in a plane crash in Montana.

Spokesman Mike Fergus says the single engine turboprop plane departed from Orville, Calif., and that the pilot had filed a flight plan showing a final destination of Bozeman.

Fergus says the pilot canceled his flight plan at some point and headed for Butte. The plane crashed about 500 feet from the airport while attempting to land and caught fire.

Fergus says preliminary reports indicate the dead include numerous children.


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/22/us/AP-Plane-Crash-Montana.html?_r=1&hp

[soothsayer]

1. sad news

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. How many planes lately have crashed attempting land...???

Seems like quite a few....

"attempted to land and caught fire"...weird.

[bdab1973]

21. No, it's not weird...

They all caught fire AFTER impacting the ground. Nothing weird about that. It's called "JET FUEL".

[Sancho]

3. Hmmm, any election machine programmers or Bush whistle-blowers on board?

:tinfoilhat:

[Divine Discontent]

4. not a silly question by any means... sad it's come to that. eom

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. 17 people in a PC-12?

I have flown on PC-12's many times, that has to be a mistake,

[Coventina]

18. I saw on the news this morning that overload is believed to be a factor. n/t

[rsmith6621]

6. Aircraft Overloaded.......

......I suspect

This aircraft is only certified to carry 9 passenger total...it doesn't matter if they are children they are still people so there has to be some fatality's on the ground....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12



Tragic...

[bigworld]

12. Plus ski equipment

BBC says they were on their way back from a ski trip.

[Wetzelbill]

7. another link

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/22/montana.plane.crash/

[empire we are]

8. If statistics are correct

about 105 people died in roadway accidents today.

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

[kestrel91316]

9. And if you want to chat that up, you can start your own thread.

This thread is about the plane crash in MT.

[Divine Discontent]

10. by that reasoning - we are to ignore tragedy and discussion of such, as it certainly appears is your

intention by not saying how sad either facts, from the OP and you, are. There is a reason humanity cares about mass death at one time, it's sad even when it's one - but gets even more tragic when it's multiples and appears to be a large amount of children. Thanks.

[Stephanie]

11. Landing in Butte is harrowing as it is.

[Whoa_Nelly]

13. Another link with fire pic. sad.

:(



http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7146068
not much in story link than has already been released

[fujiyama]

16. That's really quite a photo

I saw that earlier on the NYT's website. It's kinda ironic they shot it from a cemetery.

God, why does it seem like there's a prop plane crashing so often? Compared to larger commercial airliners, prop planes do seem less safe.

[captainjack08]

14. A lot of plane crashes lately

Smells fishy... primarily because of the number of plane crashes lately. And the fact many of these crashes occur on landing:

"The crash is the fourth major plane accident in the United States in slightly more than three months.

On Dec 20, Continental Airlines plane veered off a runway and slid into a snowy field at Denver International Airport, injuring 37 people. No one was killed. In January, a US Airways jetliner landed in New York’s Hudson River after a flock of geese disabled both its engines. All 155 people onboard survived. Last month, commuter plane fell on a house in a suburb of Buffalo, New York, killing all 49 passengers and a man in the home.

Before the Buffalo crash there hadn’t been an accident involving a commercial airliner in the United States in which there were fatalities in more than two years."

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/23/nation/20090323112246&sec=nation

Then there was another Tokyo crash today. Again another crash on landing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZHla1nQzfA

Then there was the Amsterdam crash on Feb 25th, also on landing:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090225/ap_on_re_eu/eu_netherlands_plane_crash

Something's going on. Probably criminal. Probably being covered up. Would be nice if the government could do something about it?

[fujiyama]

17. It could be a whole host of factors

Not enough trained maintenance staff. Maybe layoffs in the industry.

Hopefully the NTSB is all over this. This is an agency (along with consumer protection, food safety, etc) that doesn't really receive much attention, but need a lot of funding to maintain public safety. And I can just imagine that airline companies will do any they can to save a buck (which in turn of course doesn't mean saving critical jobs - just fattening the pockets of already overpaid CEOs). There needs to be absolutely strict enforcement and proper regulation. Hopefully this administration will have put teeth into these agencies and prosecute those responsible for any possible neglect in the industry.

[October]

19. The FedEx crash in Tokyo brings up safety issues for MD-11

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123777440378510781.html


By ANDY PASZTOR and JOHN MURPHY

TOKYO -- A FedEx Corp. cargo plane slammed into the runway and burst into flames early Monday morning while landing at Tokyo's main international airport, killing the American pilot and co-pilot and raising new questions about the safety of the MD-11, a popular cargo plane built by McDonnell Douglas.

Aviation experts believe wind shear or perhaps high winds may have been to blame for the crash, though investigators haven't yet determined a cause.


The MD-11, a wide-body airliner built by McDonnell Douglas and based on the DC-10, is infamous in aviation circles for being hard to control in high winds such as those reported at the time of the accident.

Police officials said FedEx Flight 80, which had taken off from Guangzhou in southern China, burst into flames as it touched down at Narita Airport a little before 7 a.m. Video footage of the accident showed the plane's rear wheels hitting the tarmac before the aircraft became airborne briefly and then slammed nose-first into the runway and rolled onto its left wing. The 1980s-era jet immediately exploded into flames and skidded at high speed while spewing black smoke, before sliding to a halt off the side of the runway.



---------------

This is the 3rd FedEx MD-11 crash, and the first time in their history that the pilots died.

[bdab1973]

20. Cover-up? Criminal? Do you have any clue about the facts?

And I don't mean simply cutting and pasting articles using your fantastic google skillz. The Buffalo crash was likely caused by crew inattention, and icing was likely a factor (but not causal). The Amsterdam crash, I'm not 100% sure about but could either be from improper procedure in using the autopilot or some other factor. Then the crash in Japan...most likely the pilot flying the airplane botched the landing in high crosswinds, attempted to save the landing, and the wind flipped it over (the MD-11 has a crosswind limit of about 30 knots...winds were over 40 knots). Then this crash, and based on past accidents and witness testimony, it's likely pilot inattention again caused the airplane to get too slow and stall, although there are other situations that could be at play too.

As for manufacturer cover-up...you're talking about four different types of aircraft made by four different manufacturers, made in three different countries...unlikely. The Buffalo crash as a Canadian DHC-8 (Q400 now)...the Amsterdam crash was a Boeing 737-700, and the Narita crash was a MD-11...finally the current one is a Swiss-made Pilatus PC-12...where's the connection, other than they are all airplanes? I don't see one.

As for a maintenance cover-up tying them together...also unlikely. Three were scheduled airline operators, operated by three different companies. One of those companies isn't even a US company (Turkish Airlines). The fourth was a Part 91 private aircraft. So where's the connection there?

Seriously, you need to get out sometime.

[hugo_from_TN]

22. OMG - You're in on it, aren't you??!!!

I knew DU was infested with "them". :tinfoilhat:

[Rhiannon12866]

23. Please give my best to my cousin in Tennessee...

You surely must know her, right?! :crazy: ;) :hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

15. K&R. Very sad. Another link: KTVQ-TV, Montana.

No survivors reported in Butte plane crash

Posted: March 22, 2009 06:30 PM EDT

Updated: March 23, 2009 12:46 AM EDT

Officials confirmed Sunday night that there are no survivors following a Sunday afternoon plane crash in Butte.

The site of the plane crash is in the Holy Cross Cemetery, which is next to the Bert Mooney Airport in Butte.

Officials spent Sunday on the scene securing the site. Very few details were released at Sunday night's press briefing at the airport.

But NTSB Air Safety Investigator Kristi Dunks said, "We're still gathering the operation of the aircraft, its purpose, what they were doing, where they were going. And again hopefully tomorrow (Monday) we'll have more of that exactly who was on board".

The crash occurred at 2:30 in the Holy Cross Cemetery. The flight originated out of California with a destination of Bozeman, but there's no information at this time as to why the pilot or the aircraft detoured to Butte.

There are no survivors of the crash, and also no confirmation on the numbers of those killed.

http://www.ktvq.com/Global/story.asp?S=10050868