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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 12:28 PM
Original message
Madoff worth more than $820 million, document says
Source: CNN

From Jennifer Rizzo
CNN

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Bernard Madoff, who pleaded guilty to operating a multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme, is worth up to $826 million, according to a document filed with a federal court on Friday.

Madoff values his business -- Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, which is currently being liquidated -- at $700 million, said the document, which estimated his wealth totals at least $823 million.

Real estate from around the world worth $22 million is listed, including a New York City apartment valued at $7 million and a home in Palm Beach, Florida, worth $11 million, another in Montauk, New York, worth $3 million and one in Cap d'Antibe, France, worth $1 million.

All of the residences except for the Montauk home are listed as being bought by his wife, Ruth Madoff.


Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/14/madoff.worth/index.html
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. $22 mil are modest real estate holdings by NY standards. Where did the $50 BIL go?
Bernie clearly didn't spend it all on himself.
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. More people are involved.
I heard yesterday about all his money, and what they owned, and I heard that the prosecutors are going to look into his wife and children, sons I think, but they also said it would probably take 6 months of more to do so because there were lots of paper work they had to go through! I think that before that those involved will have left the country with all the money, and that billions are already in offshore accounts!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I think this goes beyond the immediate family
and it bought a lot of brink and mortar, but not in Manhattan and the South of France.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. In a Ponzi scheme, the first investors see the payouts
and later investors are the ones whose capital provides the payouts. The people with that $50 billion are all the people who saw a 13% average yearly return on their own principal.

Madoff just paid out everything he took in, especially toward the end when skimming it off the top was no longer possible.

Ponzi schemes collapse when there are no new investors ponying up their own cash to get in on the scam. Everybody's principal has been turned into payouts. The people who got all that money were the people who paid into the scam before it collapsed. The people who got in the earliest got the most.

They all lost the principal investment, though.

I hope this isn't clear as mud. Wiki probably explains it better.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. This was a "bleedout" not a classic Ponzi scheme
Edited on Sun Mar-15-09 04:06 PM by leveymg
Ponzis don't last for 40 years, which is how long Bernie's been operating his investment funds. What stood out about Bernie's operation was the consistency of remarkably high returns, 15-20 percent, year-in, year-out, regardless of market conditions. Those returns were unreplicable by those who tried to reverse-engineer them. If this were a true Ponzi, the principal would have been gone after 5-6 years. Reports state that the trades reported to clients were not the ones he actually carried out: http://abajournal.com/news/madoff_made_no_trades_for_perhaps_13_years_trustee_says/

"The work done to date indicates that for some substantial period, perhaps as much as 13 years ... we have found no evidence that securities were purchased for customer accounts," the trustee, New York lawyer Irving Picard, told the meeting in an auditorium at U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

The meeting for Madoff creditors -- including individual investors, banks, charities and others -- was attended by about 100 people and was at times emotional.

Picard was confirming statements made by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority in January that there were no trades made by the Madoff firm. Examinations had also shown no evidence of trading by Madoff's investment fund.

That means Madoff either placed trades through other brokerages, a move industry officials have considered unlikely -- or he was not executing trades at all.

Picard said at a news conference after the meeting that although no securities were bought or sold, customers still received statements showing trades.

"We know how that was done but we can't tell you now," said Picard, citing a criminal investigation by U.S. prosecutors.


Citing "privacy" concerns, the Judge in the case has refused to reveal what offshore banks kept Bernie's funds. To pay out such high returns to so many people would have required a huge amount of capital, at least $50-$60 billion. What kind of bank has accounts of that size sloshing around, unaudited so that their sources and disposition are not known accurately? Bernie had billions going in and regularly drew out billions to pay off his customers. Bernie was skimming principal - that's called a bleedout. What kind of bank would permit itself to used for a bleedout of that size?

That's the real story that hasn't been told yet.

Madoff is reported to have had accounts at Chase Manhattan Bank and at least a dozen offshore firms: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/business/31offshore.html?ref=business ; http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/31/business/madoff.php

At least a dozen offshore entities were involved with Madoff's firm, according to several regulatory filings. They include funds linked to the Fairfield Greenwich Group, a fund of funds that lost $7.4 billion of its investors' money after entrusting it to Madoff.

Other offshore entities involved are affiliated with Tremont Group Holdings, which had $3.3 billion invested, and several Swiss banks, including Union Bancaire Privée and Banc Benedict Hentsch & Cie.

Fairfield Greenwich operates affiliates in offshore havens like the Cayman Islands. At another affiliate, in Bermuda, Amit Vijayvergiya, Fairfield Greenwich’s chief risk officer, managed flows into Sentry, its largest fund that was a main recipient of money that had been invested with Mr. Madoff. It also runs Fairfield Sentry in Ireland, one of Europe’s largest offshore havens.


Another European bank, the Bank Medici, was seized by Austrian authorities in connection with the scandal. Several large banks operating in Switzerland, Luxemborg, Spain and France are among the long list of Madoff's major investors: www.privatebanking.com/user/newsDetails.jsp;jsessionid=8BCB7EE10DC7A2DE19A0D9DF139B4E2F?ite...

BNP Paribas SA, France’s biggest bank, lost two lawsuits seeking to force UBS AG to release a combined 2.5 million euros ($3.1 million) that had been invested with two funds linked to Bernard Madoff. A Luxembourg court rejected BNP’s requests in two rulings today. BNP had sought funds that UBS held for separate funds that had invested money with Madoff, who is accused of running a $50 billion fraud. The ruling is the third from a Luxembourg court to side with UBS over investors’ claims for immediate redemptions from funds linked to Madoff. More than 15 Madoff-related cases have been filed in Luxembourg courts by investors seeking repayments or documents to establish liability.




In addition, according the NYT, Madoff used a number of "feeder funds" that may have been involved in diverting funds for tax evasion and other possible reasons:


Of particular interest is whether Madoff and some of his investors used funds based in offshore tax havens to evade U.S. taxes, according to a person briefed on the investigation.

Also under scrutiny is whether certain charities that invested with Madoff had improperly allowed their donors to shift money offshore and whether foreign banks had withheld U.S. taxes on Madoff accounts, as required by the IRS, according to this person, who was given anonymity because of the delicate nature of the investigation.


The largest of these feeder funds is run by Ezra Merkin, who resigned in recent weeks as Chair of GMAC Capital. He also serves as Chairman of Gabriel-Cerberus, the bank holding company that holds a large stake in Bank Leumi, the privatized national bank of Israel. In addition to its 51% stake in GMAC, Cerberus also owns Chrysler Corp., which are the largest industrial beneficiaries of the TARP bailout funds. Merkin is a major benefactor of a number of charities in Israel and the U.S. as well as a big contributor to both Likud and the Republican Party.








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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. From what I've read, it was both
Thanks very much for the additional information and links. I've bookmarked.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Madoff Isn't "Worth" a Nickel ; He's Just In Possession of Stolen Goods
as are the wife, the sons, the charities he gave money to, and the politicians he contributed to.
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guyton Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. ... and the people that cashed out of his fund!
I've not heard a peep about trying to "undo" the payouts of this bogus fund.

Can the fed recover bogus 'payments' to the people that were lucky enough to cash about before the scheme collapsed? How many of the lost billions are actually recoverable?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm Sure They Will Try
Look upon it as job security for lawyers.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. They'll never seize more than10 or 20 million
from him. He has been actively hiding his wealth and giving it to family members. Trying to get everything in his wife's name to avoid seizure. That may not work.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Madoff had an entire network, starting with sons, daughters- and sons-in law
and high rolling friends who were his recruiters. Word of mouth about this exclusive club was all these greedy rich folks needed. Long and very interesting article below gets into the pathology of his also developing relationships with wealthy older benefactors (men) who legitimized him even further. Nice work if you can get it. Too bad he'll be staring at walls for the rest of his life.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/madoff200904
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. He really was the ultimate conman. Makes the mother in "The Grifters" look
almost sympathetic by comparison.

I hope the authorities are able to grab every dime the family and friends have hidden, and they all end up like the Dukes in "Trading Places"!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. That is an excellent article. Thanks for the link.
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wackywaggin Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. You got that right!!

The Neice Madoff and Son in law Swanson are still at it at www.batstrading.com . Click about tab then biographies tab.

:smoke:
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wackywaggin Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Shana Madoff and hubby still at it!!
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/business/Fraudster-Bernard-Madoff-may-be.5072892.jp

Scroll to borttom of page in reference to her being the company comliance officer and her husband a former SEC official then go to a site called www.batstrading.com
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