Iraqi Muslims warn against missionaries

[Mari333]

Goddamn missionaries are putting OUR TROOPS IN DANGER BY DOING THIS!!



Al-Faidhi warned that the missionaries were "exploiting the difficult political and economic conditions" in the country to spread their word.

Al-Faidhi said the statement would also carry a "warning to Muslims of the danger of this campaign, and to urge caution of the dangerous implications of the American occupation of Iraq, including the campaign of preaching Christianity that is spreading around the country."

The director of the Shiite Center for Strategic Studies, Fateh Kashef al-Ghitaa, also told UPI several Iraqi cities have recently witnessed "Christian missionary campaigns urging Iraqis to embrace Christianity, which is being led by the new conservatives."

He warned of the "dangers of the possible results of such a campaign,



Praying together Southern Baptist volunteers pray with an Iraqi man to whom they have given food. Watch how you can help needs in Iraq. (BP) photo by Mike Creswell










http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/02210004aaa025eb.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=LATEBRKN&Type=News&Filter=Late%20Breaking




AND HERE ARE THE MORONS DOING IT...IM CALLING THEM TO GIVE THEM HELL
here is their goddamned number I called them and told them off and called them THE ANTI CHRIST
1-804-353-0151
http://www.imb.org/core/default.asp

[Racenut20]

1. Really makes me wonder.

Just how incredibly stupid this bunch of wingnuts can be.

[_Jumper_]

2. Muslim fundies

Xian fundies accept fundies from other religions preaching their religion so why can't Muslim fundies? Iraqis can come here and preach Islam but American Christians can't preach Christianity? The Middle East desperately needs an honest debate about religion and a few fundie thugs should not prevent that.

[Mari333]

3. are you serious????

We invade their country to steal their goddamn oil and then we allow these baptist morons to go in there and steal their culture all the while offering them food as long as they are christianized..these are baptist thugs...and they ARE PUTTING MY SOLDIER SON AT RISK by creating havoc for even having their fat sorry asses over there..why the hell should he have to protect their butts???????
This makes it even MORE dangerous for him to be there and its goddmaned dangerous enough
PS these people arent Christians they are assholes and insane.

[Skittles]

5. I agree with Mari

100%. They are disgusting.

[loudnclear]

19. Please understand the truth about this invasion and resulting war

You were lied to. Understand the real AGENDA!!!

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/13/news-cooper.php

[chasqui]

75. I knew about those reasons over a year ago.

There is an Indian think tank called RUPE:
http://www.rupe-india.org/
About a year ago they published a paper enumerating the reasons for invading Iraq, paramount of which was the strength of the dollar vs. the euro.
This fact alone can explain the sort of political maneuvering that went on between the US and the EU major players (Germany/France) in the lead up to the war.
The bottom line is that our economic system is going to collapse if there is a global shift in confidence in the dollar.
Things to think about.

[catzies]

80. I highly recommend that article to anyone who was pro- this war!

One section I particularly liked:

"General Tony Zinni is another one. Zinni, the combatant commander of Central Command, Tommy Franks’ predecessor — a very well-qualified guy who knows the Middle East inside out, knows the military inside out, a Marine, a great guy. He spoke out publicly as President Bush’s Middle East envoy about some of the things he saw. Before he was removed by Bush, I heard Zinni called a traitor in a staff meeting. They were very anti-anybody who might provide information that affected their paradigm. They were the spin enforcers."


So when's his book coming out? :)

[Mozam]

72. Where is your tolerance?

I've been there and my son is currently there (Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2002). Freedom to speak your mind can have a price...sounds like you have a problem with an US Administration action and possibly a religious belief. Who's freedom do you support

[Astarho]

9. Not really

Xian fundies only accept fundies from other religions because the Constitution tells them they have to. If they had their way they would edit that part right out.

Iraqis can come here and preach Islam but American Christians can't preach Christianity?

The difference being we INVADED Iraq. It's one thing for them to come here, and Americans are free to listen or not. It's another for them to go to a country we just conquered and force people there to listen in exchange for food.

[scottcsmith]

4. They should wait

Until the dust has settled in Iraq and we've transferred power to an Iraqi government, which can then decide if they want to allow missionaries or not.

This seems like a really bad time to be spreading the word, with so much havoc and extremists killing Americans and Iraqis supporting our cause.

[Mari333]

6. I called and told them THAT and I told them how dare

they put my child at RISK over there and how dare they even go into Iraq and that I HAVE READ THE BIBLE PLENTY and they are NOT Christians they are the epitome of the ANTICHRIST..
These people dont care about the troops!! they have a goddamned BUSINESS to sell...fucking assholes.

[Sophree]

31. Incredibly selfish individuals.

Only incredibly selfish individuals would engage in this type of behavior. They are only doing this to build themselves up- the exact OPPOSITE of what the Bible teaches.

Mari, my heart is aching for you and your family. The damage these errant policies are doing to our society, our families will be immeasurable. Your son is in my thoughts and prayers.
:hug:

[slor]

7. I really think our soldiers should...

protest protecting these idiots! How dare they go into a foreign country preaching about anything! Get those damn fools out of there!

[Mari333]

8. Yes what the fuck kind of goddamn foreign policy is this???

sending in the goddamn Baptists now like we own the fucking country??? My god, every soldier over there is going to be hated even more..call the bastards, leave the Baptists a goddamed message..I did..those assholes!! and I hope they get scared to death and I wont say anymore..Im not kidding!! Im that mad..if they put MY kid at risk to sell their goddamed cult religion, they shouldnt have ONE BIT OF PROTECTION FROM OUR SOLDIERS...NOT ONE.. we shouldnt have to pay to protect their sorry asses!! nor should our kids be over there having to protect their sorry asses..
Im so mad I am fuming. who the FUCK allowed these assholes to do this??????????????????????????????

[LoZoccolo]

10. !

and I hope they get their church bus blown up..Im not kidding!!

I'm sorry, this is over the line. There's people here that hope the soldiers get killed because they're participating in an illegal war rather than refusing to fight, you know. Please calm down.

[Mari333]

12. Listen my SON is over in Baghdad RIGHT NOW

and if HIS life is even REMOTELY in danger because THESE morons are over there, then maybe the only thing that will make them leave is to run for their goddamn lives..THEY ARE PUTTING MY SONS LIFE AT RISK BY BEING THERE
Its as simple as that..these people, these missionaries are TRAITORS to the Troops and I am going to be on the phone all day Monday to my Senators and Congressmen demanding they get the HELL out of there..my child should NOT be in a dangerous place thats even MORE dangerous because these yahoos think they can run around selling their cult over there
Its not over the line, no way..these people need to get the hell out of there RIGHT NOW or they endanger our troops!

[LoZoccolo]

17. Yeah it is over the line.

I'm sure Eric Harris and Dylan Kliebold were rightfully pretty upset that they'd get picked on at Columbine. Doesn't mean they should do what they did. Please be responsible with your anxiety. I may sound cold and businesslike considering, but you really need to deal with this before you do something really crazy.

[Mari333]

21. I changed it..and I didnt say THEM I said their bus

and they ARE traitors to the Troops and they need to be kicked out ASAP..pronto...
if anyone on DU even remotely backs this bunch of morons up I may scream. and I can be as mad as I want. These people are putting OUR KIDS AT RISK. and I can rail and rant about it.
Going to get drunk, for the first time in a long time. Ive had it.

[mike1963]

37. Don't apoligize, Mari. I hope those assholes get blown to bits.

I have absolutely no patience with a bunch of sanctimonious proselytizing assholes who have no fucking business there.

The only good fundy is a dead fundy.
:grr: :grr:

[demdave]

40. "The only good fundy is a dead fundy." The sick minds have spoken

Interesting how "progressives" can advocate violence, and now death, toward a group by virtue of their choice of religion. I guess that is a sick mind's idea of tolerance.

Tell me, who else do you desire to see killed??

[mike1963]

42. You seem to have a dearth of reading comprehension. I do not condemn

their "choice of religion", only their insane desire to impose it on everyone else. But you may have a point, my mind is pretty much 'sick' (and tired) with disgust towards assholes who want to force everyone else in the whole fucking world to adhere to their brand of arrogance.

[LoZoccolo]

49. You seem to have a dearth of tact. Fundamentalism...

...is a religion. See post #16. Then read your "dead fundy" post again.

[Sophree]

53. WHOA.

Everbody calm the fuck down.

DUers, stop responding to the trolls, they are just here to cause trouble and their intentions are anything but noble.

Let's all take a deep breath. This may not be the time to have this conversation, although I agree it may be necessary to discuss this in the near future.

Not after the news Mari has gotten. Please, have a little patience and understanding.

PEACE

[LoZoccolo]

54. Are you calling me a troll?

What?

[Sophree]

58. No.

Sorry, I wasn't even directing my post only at you. It was just a general blow of the whistle.

PEACE

[LoZoccolo]

62. Ha, sorry.

Please accept my apology. I can be way overly confrontative.

[Sophree]

69. Ain't no thang.

:-)

[hang a left]

60. I don't think it was you Z.

I think everyone got riled by the guy advocating that the mideast needs some discussion on religion. Whoever that was I can't read his name now that I"m in the posting zone here.

[mike1963]

61. "Fundamentalism is a religion"??? Please do not condescend to me.

That is ...well, to put it politely, bullshit. You might as well claim physics is a religion.

And I did read #16 and I am not impressed. If you were a resident of an invaded and occupied country and somebody with a religion different from the one you subscribe to, I would defend your right to be free from coercion to change to that of the occupiers. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I happen to believe that all religion is idiotic, but I will defend the right of anyone to accept fairy tales AS LONG AS they don't have the political/military power to impose it on others.

Why is this position so difficult to grasp?

[LoZoccolo]

66. OK what is it then?

If you insist on changing the definitions of labels of belief systems, I guess you're speaking a different language and saying something completely different than what we think. Please don't speak that different language here where people can get confused by it, OK? It gets everyone riled up and wastes a bunch of peoples' time.

The position you outline isn't difficult to grasp. The problem is that it's the first time you've stated it here, and one of the first posts you've made in this thread that didn't somehow advocate killing people based on their religious beliefs, or elaborate or answer a response on some other post that did.

Who said anything about coercion by the way? I don't even see that from the person making the accusations in the orignal article. I agree it can be percieved as such, what with one group of Americans occupying and the other prostelytizing.

[DUmbrella]

56. I wonder

Were you in support of the human shields before the war?

[hang a left]

65. She just got done telling you she was going to get drunk.

So now you want to call her out, when she has left us? By the way were you in support of the human shields before the war?

[Blue Gardener]

30. YEAH!

I agree with you completely. If they get shot at it's their own damn fault. It disgusts me when a missionary gets killed overseas, usually in a place where they shouldn't be because it's very dangerous, and then they are treated like martyrs by their church members back home. (This recently happened in Iowa, the husband was killed by a bomb in the Phillipines last year. Now the wife is returning because "God told her to"). They aren't martyrs, they're stupid bastards that can't mind their own business.

[demdave]

32. Before you agree "completely" perhaps you should know

the deleted part of her message contained this..."I hope they get their church bus blown up..Im not kidding!!" Now, do you really support violence against a group because you disagree with some member's actions?

[Lars39]

35. The missionaries volunteered to be there.

It is endangering the troops lives to have to protect proselytizing christians in an unstable muslim country that has been bombed and taken over.

[demdave]

38. I agree with you, I do not support the missionaries being there.

The only thing I was arguing about was the since deleted statement wishing for the violence toward Baptists here at home. When someone says "I hope they get their church bus blown up..Im not kidding!!" I have to take exception to it. Encouraging violence against an entire religion is not acceptable.

[mike1963]

39. Well, this isn't deleted. I hope every one of those bastards are IN a bus

that gets blown up.
There, I said it. I mean it. Fuck those assholes.
Edit:

By the god damned way, if the USA were invaded by a Muslim country and they were sending Islamic fundamentalists here to 'convert' people here, I would say the same thing about them.
:grr:

[LoZoccolo]

44. Sick.

This is shameful of DU.

:hi: :nuke:

[loudsue]

77. It's NOT "shameful of DU"....Your "broad brush" reeks of "control freak"

Where do YOU get off saying what's "shameful of DU"???? Who appointed YOU keeper of the DU image??

Mari333 is seeing a true picture, and it places the life of her own flesh & blood in danger. And she sees it through the eyes of ANY American soldier's mother...who might ALSO be called on to sacrifice her son for a bunch of high-on-Jesus peddlers.

Those baptists have a proselytizing missionary "hard on", and, like many-a-hard-on, can't think of anything except their own gratification.

George Bush and his fundie followers really do think this is the new "crusades" generation. Since when did any other war zone expect protection for this type of idiocy?

I'll bet if those baptists all come home in a box, bubba-Dubya will SURE show up to welcome THOSE coffins home! He doesn't have the decency to do that for our troops.

Up is down, down is up. The whole damn world is on its head!!!

NOT "shame on DU". SHAME ON YOU!!!!

:kick:

[LoZoccolo]

79. Yeah, shame on me...

...for pointing out that someone's advocating killing people.

:eyes:

[hang a left]

63. Probably the last thing we need is a bus full of fundies

blowing up somewhere in Iraq. That get the nazis all riled up to go kill all those brown skin folk over there in the "greater middle east"

[demdave]

11. "I hope they get their church bus blown up..Im not kidding!!"????

WOW, not only your language and your morals are sick, I believe your mind is also.

Try not to tell anyone you are a Dem when you are issuing your death threats. OK?

[Mari333]

14. If you had a kid in Baghdad being endangered by these people

you would feel a LOT differently. Believe me.

[demdave]

22. No, I would not. If your son is in the service, he volunteered.

He volunteered to hand over control of his life to the military and in doing so is showing his feelings about this country and our freedoms. YOU by advocating violence toward Baptists are shaming his nobel actions. I hope he never sees the vile hatred that spews out of your mind. I feel sorry for him and pray for you. You need help.

[Mari333]

26. No he did NOT volunteer for this bloodbath and if I hear one

more person on DU say that Ill vomit...how dare you.
The kids that are over there are weekend army reservists and guard..they did NOT volunteer for an illegal bloodbath , an illegal war, or an illegal regime in the WH that runs it.
http://www.mfso.org
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
and until your loved one is on the ground over there, you havent got a clue..
please save your pschoanalysis for a glazy eyed southern baptist.

You are on ignore.

[demdave]

27. Put your head in the sand if you wish

but your son took the government's money and will do their bidding. If he was too stupid to know this before hand perhaps you should have opened your filthy mouth beforehand and inform him.

[Malva Zebrina]

36. I have to agree to a certain extent

there is no use whining about a loved one who signed up knowingly in order to reap the benefits of tax payer largesse and to get somewhere without too much effort. Now that they are employed in a war, killing other human beings on the whim of an insane man who thinks he is a great "war president" is not a reason to lament that particular condition. They signed up to reap the benefits and unfortunealey under an insane man, were forced to comply with the conditions of their contract.

And they kill as part of the contract. Kill children and other innocent human beings in order to not be in contempt. I find that logic really quite sick.

What is the average thinking person supposed to do? Condone it? When it goes the opposite of everything they deem to be moral in their own lives for the sake of "supporting the troops"? and worse not mentioning this on DU because we have persons who post here who have sons and daughters who signed up so we must hide our heads in the sand and condone this for the sake of those who signed up?

It is really unfortunate that persons here on DU have sons and daughters who have been employed to fulfill their obligations--but I, for one, cannot protect them or even to some extent, feel sorry for them. It is their unfortunate fate, but it is one in which they willingly subscribed to.

[PA Democrat]

43. Try a little compassion

This woman has posted extensively about how she tried to talk her son out of signing up for the reserves. He was just shipped out this week, and she just found out TODAY that he was posted in Baghdad, doing MP duty.

I can't even imagine how I would feel if I were in her position. Who hasn't said something we regret when we are pushed to our emotional limits?

Peace.

[Malva Zebrina]

52. WEll, I agree

and I do feel anxiety for her and her predicament. I would be as anxious for my child as she is right now, I am sure.

Because I can see beyond that does not mean I must surrender all of my beliefs about this war because of that. I can analyse what is happening without having to be shut up about it because some here have family that serve in Iraq.

There may be other forums that are meant to be exclusive forums for families of those who chose to serve Bush in his war or who happened to be in the mix. I do not think DU poster are obliged to support Bush or the troops who carry out his orders, simply becuase we have posters here whose loved ones are sent there on the orders of the CIC, who they pledged to support.

I would think we can express our thoughts about it all here on DU and need not join in with the mainstream of emotional support without offering at elast some other view that may be contrary to the sheep support.

I am posting my perceptions about it. I am sorry, truly sorry for her--it does not mean I am not compassionate, but as compassionate as I am for her predicament in dealing with a son who willingly signed up into the military, I am equally as compassionate for the thousands of Iraqi civilians who were killed/murdered by Bush and his troops, when they were under virtually NO attack and who continue to be killed by our troops under the same orders that they willingly signed up to obey.

The reality is that there is another way of looking at tjhis and it is not constrained by loyalty to another DU poster whose son willing signed up to be emplyed in the military, fighting on the orders of a commander in chief, whoever it was or is.

It is obvious to me that any future conflicts or wars that the US in involved in have to be, out of necessity, wars of conquest and not wars of defense.

I would not encourage my children to become enamoured and mesmerized by the pull of romantic "heroism" or romanitic "marine" of military combat against virtually, militaryily ineffective other countries, simply to satisfy their testosterone visions of their own "heroic" sacrifice--a sacrifice billed as "protecting the freedoms" of the people of the US, when in reality, to any thinking person, it is a military assigned to conquor other small, defenseless countries, who are NO threat to us, but who have something valuable that we want--and we want to take it from them and we can take it from them because we have the biggest and the best of bombs to do so--naturally we do not attempt to do this on the really big countries, like Russia, or China. We , in our bravery, only attack small countries like Iraq, that have been sanctioned for ten years, their infrastructure bombed for ten years, and have been virtually inspected for years and years and were deemed impotenet by the most recent UN inspections. Yippee

good thing--

we decided we could attack then with that knowledge provided by the UN inspectors and it was all so brave of our troops and George Bush, to invade an already beseiged and impotent country so we could get their stuff an lie about them in order to justify the greed.

They were heroes whoever it was George used to get what he needed in order to satisy his corporate benefactors!!

[PA Democrat]

76. You are Preaching to the Choir

I was adamantly and vocally opposed to Bush's invasion of Iraq. And I have voiced my opposition FOR YEARS about the obscene amount of money this country spends on the military, at the expense of programs that would genuinely improve the fate of humanity. I can assure you that my legislators are very aware of my views on this subject.

But I don't think it is productive to blame the soldiers and the mothers of the soldiers. If you asked many of the people in today's military why they volunteered, most would say they joined up as a way of getting an education, or because it was the only job they could get; not "simply to satisfy their testosterone visions of their own 'heroic' sacrifice."

Instead of expressing scorn for those who have chosen the military as a route to a better life, let's expend our energies to promote programs that give young people money for college in return for community service. Let's work to close our empire of more than 700 military bases around the world.

One of the things that I have been actively trying to change is the recruiting methods of the military. I touched on some of this in the thread linked below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=376728

I DO have children, and we regularly discuss politics, foreign policy, and the realities of war, because they sure aren't getting a realistic interpretation of events at school. And I have fought to keep the military from recruiting our kids at the age of 16.

I can't waste energy bashing people who are caught up in a system that absolutely SUCKS. We need to change the system.

[mike1963]

45. The rules prevent me from saying the obvious here.

Suffice it to say you are probably fortunate you are not close by my location.

[demdave]

48. What a surprise, you are violent toward those that disagree with you.

I should have guessed after your "the only good fundie is a dead fundie" statement.

[mike1963]

68. No. I don't advocate violence against people who disagree with me.

But I have no compunctions about eliminating clear and present dangers (unlike Dubya.)

I'm 62 years old and I've seen a lot of things and people without which the world would be better. It's of a piece with natural selection, an element of evolution that might not be all that palatable, but a fact of nature.

You might be tempted to call me a bitter old man, and you would be partly right - I am kinda old, and I've become somewhat bitter since the 2000 election debacle. In short, I'm mad as hell. At the Republicans (I was one until ca. 1964), at the far-right faux-christians who ignore the Sermon on the Mount and glom onto a few OT verses and crap from the alleged writings of Saul, the terrorist of Tarsus while ignoring most of what supposedly was uttered by the icon of their professed faith, Jesus.

Most self-anointed 'christians' these days are bogus, bigoted hypocrites, the very antithesis of the claimed teachings of their 'favorite philosopher.'

Generally, the only feasable cure for a cancer is to exise it. That's why I said what I did.

[LoZoccolo]

73. Genocide, right here on DU.

I'm 62 years old and I've seen a lot of things and people without which the world would be better. It's of a piece with natural selection, an element of evolution that might not be all that palatable, but a fact of nature.

Whoodathunkit?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

84. Oh my.

Things could be worse, though. I could be eliminated as a clear and present danger.

:hi: :nuke:

[loudsue]

87. I like you, Mike1963!!!

:yourock:I'm with you!!:yourock:

Even if you get "modded", you said what a lot of us were thinking.

Sure this war sucks. But I truly believe that the majority of people who signed up for the military actually BELIEVED they wouldn't be sent to war on ANY basis other than protection of our country.

This war is ANYTHING but that, and the majority of guys who are over there got totally screwed because our government has been hijacked by a bunch of criminals.

I just hope that, when our troops get home, they fight for our country, and get this bunch of bastards out of our government!!!! I'll fight along with them, if they'll do it!!

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[LoZoccolo]

89. "I'm with you" on what?

Giving me a "fuck you" because I pointed out that he wanted to kill people based on their religion?

Please clarify.

[loudsue]

93. Yep.

n/t

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[LoZoccolo]

96. Thanks for clearing that up.

Man, I hope this one doesn't end up on Free Republic or something. "I wonder why all these working-class Republicans keep voting against their own interests...oh I'm sure it has nothing to do with certain of us wanting to go kill a large segment of them or something". Man oh man. Never thought I'd see anyone actually come out and say this.

Anyways...
:hi: :nuke:

[mike1963]

41. You are obviously free to disagree. Tough shit. These kinds of assholes

are the biggest threat to civilization. They are no better than cockroaches. Not even as good. Bah.
:grr:

[DuctapeFatwa]

59. US policy is that it does own Iraq and all other countries

Sovereignty and self defense are privileges that the US alone can bestow or revoke on its extraterritorial properties, as it sees fit.

The US does not tolerate opposition to its policy, within or outside of the 48 contiguous states, and considers any such opposition an act of war, and by definition, terrorism.

[JohnyCanuck]

13. Hey Iraqis were here to rip off your oil and plunder your economy

so our President's and Vice President's rich friends and cronies can become even more obscenely rich, and in return we're going to give you Jesus. Wow, how could any Iraqi resist such a bargain.

[aquart]

15. Isn't that sweet? Offering food treats.

Just like we use to train a dog.

Ever heard the phrase "rice Christians"? Bernard Shaw wrote an entire play about missionaries called "Major Barbara." He dared them to convert without a bribe.

[Malva Zebrina]

16. I just want to say

that when people use the term "fundies" on this board that it is bigoted.

"fundies" denotes fundamentalists. Fundamentalists believe, as Christians, in the "fundamentals" You can research that by googling it.

There is no doubt that these persons are sincere in their religious beliefs--as sincere as any other. They do believe in this religion, and believe in it whole heartedly and sincerely.

Calling these people who believe in the "fundamentals" with the moniker "fundies" is bigoted and these post should be deleted according to the DU rules.

I suspect that what most people here are posting against, rather bigoted, are the far to the right literalist believers and not "fundamentalists" per se.

Most Baptists are fundamentalists, but not necessarily "literalists" or far to the right extremeists.

I think there needs to be some intellectual pursuits here on the bigotry that is accepted, perhaps out of ignorance, simply because the majority who post on DU have deemed the fundamentalists the evil and enemy "fundies" in the current deroggatory lexicon,-- the enemy.

There is a lot here that is, indeed, bigoted and allowed to stand , in spite of the "rules" because it is supported by the majority,not offensive to the owners of the thread, and a popular scapegoat.

As long as it is the accepted "enemy" amongst the majority it is allowed to stand, while those who post facts about , say, Ariel Sharon or the attitude of the current fascist party in Israel are deleted on the pretense of "anti-semitism"

It is , nevertheless, bigoted to refer to those who believe in the "fundamentals" of their Christian religion as "fundies" and I would suggest that the mods and the owners here take a second look at the biogotry they allow re these Christian beliefs, while deleting posts that do not exactly conform to what they would believe re perhaps their own religion.


Using the term "fundies" is as bigoted as the excuse for deleting posts that criticize Catholicism, or Judaism or the policies of either.

The term "fundies" and it's use on this board, is bigotry. There is not doubt about it.

That we may consider those "fundies" the enemy does not erase the fact that denigrating these persons and their religious beliefs is bigotry and against the stated rules of DU.

[LoZoccolo]

20. Yep.

I happen to think that liberal policies are more in line with the beliefs of fundamentalists, but this rampant "acceptable" bigotry threatens to keep them away and back into the conservative ghetto.

I have almost no doubt that by the time I finish this message, someone will have responded to "set you straight" about all the things that the "fundies" want to do with a set of broad-brushes.

[LoZoccolo]

24. Pleasantly surprised that I was wrong.

Wow!

Another thing is that I've seen twice this accusation that they withhold food from people that don't convert - I don't even see the person that's making the accusations in the article accuse them of this. I'm a little bit disturbed that people who are rightfully against the stereotyping of gays/lesbians, minorities, people of other faiths, and other groups on principle would find it acceptable to make an accusation like that.

[mike1963]

46. fundies are by definition idiots. They are anachronistic throwbacks to an

era when the Earth was Flat, was the center of the Universe, and stars were pinholes in an imagined firmament...that humans were created from dirt 6000 years ago, and the world was flooded. Only idiots believe these fairy tales.

They are the uneducated morons who refuse to admit to the facts of science and insist on the literal interpretation of parts of a book of fiction (but only those pieces that support their agenda, which gave rise to the obvious "salad-bar xians".)

[LoZoccolo]

51. Would you say the same about Orthodox Jews?

...just asking...

[mike1963]

55. I can't answer that because I don't know if I know any Orthodox Jews, or

if any of them have attempted to impose their religion on a captive audience. I have many Jewish friends (if you want names/emails ask me privately.)

If they were doing what the putative baptists are doing, I most assuredly would say the same thing.

Is that clear enough?

[LoZoccolo]

57. Your post wasn't about people imposing thier religion.

fundies are by definition idiots. They are anachronistic throwbacks to an era when the Earth was Flat, was the center of the Universe, and stars were pinholes in an imagined firmament...that humans were created from dirt 6000 years ago, and the world was flooded. Only idiots believe these fairy tales.

It is clear your post, which advocates killing, is not directed at people imposing their religion, but people who have a set of beliefs.

[Malva Zebrina]

64. the only response I can offer is to suggest that you look up the defintion

of the "fundamentals" in contemporary religious beliefs.

yOu are confuse between those who beliee in the "fundamentals" and those who are the extremist literalists.

Many call themselves fundamentalists because they beliee in the "fundamentals" and are not the extremist far right.

[mike1963]

74. Well, I don't know exactly where to "look it up", but it is abundantly

clear that 'fundamentalists' and 'literalists' have less than a nanometer of difference between their positions in contemporary discourse. Perhaps you can describe the wide gap separating them?
I wait with bated breath.

[loudsue]

83. Marianne....you need to read something.....

You need to read it NOW!!

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_5160.shtml

Come back when you do your homework.

Until then....Mari333's (or any other mother's) son SHOULD

NOT

be required to put his life on the line so that ONE church can preach THEIR OWN VERSION OF RELIGION to a bunch of beaten-down, desperate people who only know that they have been invaded by a bunch of goons who want to steal their oil.

This ISN'T about "defending Democracy". It's about defending a Jesus sales force out for commercial gain and self aggrandizement. And it is all part of bush's "plan" for the Mideast.
:kick:

[Webster Green]

18. Throw em to the lions!

Fundie assholes!

[Mari333]

23. and they want my son to protect them while they sell their Cult

on OUR tax money.
And they are morons and they should be thrown out of Iraq NOW. How dare anyone back them up while they endager our troops over there?

[stopthegop]

25. how dare they?

how dare you demand an end to their freedom? I'm sorry your son is over there...but as said above, he made his own decision and volunteered..

how dare you question the right of others to have a different opinion than you?

[Mari333]

28. and you are on ignore. I guess the troops lives

being endangered by these people is not important enough to concern ones self with. These people have no right to be there and have OUR troops cover their cult asses. Its that simple.
NO HE DIDNT VOLUNTEER FOR AN ILLEGAL WAR BASED ON LIES AND DECEIT.

and I am beginning to think Im on Free Republic right now.

[stopthegop]

33. sorry you're so upset...

I can live with being on ignore...have a good evening

[demdave]

34. It seems to be a growing group

soon she will see nothing but headlines. lolol

[loudsue]

90. In your dreams....

There are enough progressives here that I don't think Mari333 will EVER be alone!!!

Don't you guys think you can come over here and push your type of hype and get by with it.

Mari333 is TOTALLY justified in her despair, and you guys are showing yourselves for the cold-hearted, shallow thinkers that you are.

You guys make me :puke:

:kick::kick:

[Malva Zebrina]

67. It may be something to be proud of to be on ignore of certain

posters here.

Do not be intimidated.

WE all have our opinions , some of them very strong opinions.

There is no one person here who commands the threads ane their content unless the mods get over enthused.

There are thousands, perhaps, who read these threads and who do NOT post to them.

There is no way of knowing who you are posting to, actually.

Keep posting your opinions because some people do try to manipulate the populace to take their position and to turn them against any other view not consistent with their own.

It is, at times, a clique mentality here and that is because there is relatively little opportunity to actually discuss an issue beyond the one liner most common in the posts, but not necessarily the correct mentality. So it takes a little bit of bravery to stick to your own in the one liner post. LOL

Be your own person, always,

[loudsue]

95. And inflate your own ego....always.

Bad is good, if there are enough of you. Right??

Meanness and cold-heartedness are fine, if you're in a group. Right?

Gee. Aren't you SPECIAL!!!

:puke:

:kick::kick:

[berry]

97. Who issued them visas to be in Iraq?

Mari--you're absoulutely right. It's unbelievable that these peddlers of extremist religious views are allowed to run free in Iraq, and to endanger the troops. (I do think putting some people on ignore is the right thing to do here on DU--)

The real issue here is NOT whether these missionaries are "right" or have a right to their views. The issue is that the US government has allowed them to enter Iraq for the purpose of proseletyzing, when the war is still ongoing. Actually, I do remember reading that they went in way back last year, just after the invasion. I was shocked. This has to be a sop to *'s RW Christian Coalition base. These "missionaries" are not being sent by the mainstream churches--but by the groups that hold the key (they believe) to *'s election.

And they DO endanger the troops. Remember the two young women in Afganistan who were captured by the Taliban? There was a threat of them being used as hostages. And the soldiers who eventually rescued them risked their own lives in the process. That time it went well enough, but next time it could be disastrous.

Anyway, we need to get a clear statement of the government's policy on this. Call the State Dept? And ask why missionaries are being allowed into Iraq. Or can anyone who wants to go to Iraq do so? I don't know that visas are required, but I can't believe that this is not highly controlled. Which means that these people have been given permission (even encouragement) from the top. Rove? To placate the Christian right? Maybe there's a journalist out there that can do some investigating of this story. I, for one, don't know enough about the official policy--but it reeks.

Mari, you have all my sympathy! AND admiration! Yes, you're fighting for your son, but also for all of us, and for the country we could and should be.

[Malva Zebrina]

29. if they get killed they can bask in the knowledge that they are

persecuted.

[mike1963]

50. The really scary thing is that you're probably right.

They are, in many cases, no different from the guys who blow themselves up in the service of Allah. The more the better, I say.
:grr:

[ms_splash]

47. missionary work is arrogant and ignorant

Tantamount to the crusade that we've (Bush and the US) have been accused of starting.

While I won't say that I hope they get blown up, If, by chance they do get blown up, I won't be surprised OR sad.

[Mozam]

70. Strong Convictions

Bottomline...what make these folks any different than those who are trying to make homosexual marriage acceptable in the United States. They are trying to increase acceptance of their beliefs. What's the problem?

[mike1963]

78. Oh, gosh, maybe it's just that their entire FUCKING COUNTRY has been

invaded and occupied.

Not that their evangelic activities were bolstered by that...naw...
:eyes: :grr: :eyes: :grr:

[ms_splash]

81. They're not trying to convert anyone to homosexuality

Or telling anyone who doesn't "convert" that they (the "unbelievers") will go to hell.

Or packaging homosexuality with food for starving people.

Can't you see the difference?

[Mozam]

88. Afraid?

Sounds like you fear poepole with different outlooks on life. Who gets to say what is wrong or right?

[ms_splash]

91. Afraid?

Well, considering that there are people out there that will kill you if you believe differently from them, there may be some reason to be afraid.

But, I don't know how you "heard" fear in my post.

And, I get to say what is right for me, you get to say what is right for you.

[varun]

86. You are comparing apples and oranges

Homosexuals are not imposing their lifestyle on anyone by asking for marriage rights.

Missionaries are asking others to convert - and many a times under duress, or financial incentives.

[varun]

85. exactly

missionaries are causing "Spiritual Violence" - in Gandhi's words.

A very good article about "Conversions":

http://www.esspirit.com/jesubhaktan/missionposition.html

[PA Democrat]

92. Good Article

Thanks, varun. I think that article offers a very good explanation as to why we shouldn't have a bunch of Christians over in Iraq proselytizing.

[looking glass]

71. Kill 'em All

According to your link, these vermin are also running women's shelters in Northern India, trying to stop sexual slavery.

They are also helping families with HIV in Africa.

They are clearly evil, and must be destroyed at all costs.

[oneighty]

94. Civilians and military

of our country do not mix well under any conditions. They march to different drummers. And yet the civilians from our country in a war zone lean upon their military brethren for protection in time of need. It is not the place of our military to provide that protection.

The missionaries place themselves in harms way and should bear the burden of their actions. The men and women flocking from America to Iraq for a quick buck likewise do not deserve the protection of our military boys and girls.

As it should be. Their God will protect them, I am sure.

180

[Moderator]

98. locking

Total flamebait, if I removed all the personal attacks and rules violations, there wouldn't be a thread left.