Public Gives Bush* Benefit of Doubt on National Guard Service

[kskiska]

Most say it will not influence their votes in November

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

(snip)

The poll, conducted Feb. 16-17, shows the public is not largely tuned in to the debate over Bush's National Guard service. Slightly more than half of Americans say they have heard or read a great deal (23%) or a moderate amount (34%) about the controversy, leaving 43% who have not heard much (29%) or anything at all (14%) about it.

When asked for their views on Bush's actions in the matter, Americans tend to give Bush the benefit of the doubt. About half of Americans, 49%, say he did not do anything seriously wrong. Thirty-one percent say he did something unethical, but not illegal, and only 4% say he did something illegal. A majority, 54%, disagrees with the notion that Bush is hiding something regarding his National Guard service, while 36% believe that there is more to the story than Bush has revealed.

Among those who have heard or read a great deal about Bush's National Guard service, 56% say he did nothing seriously wrong, 33% say he did something unethical, and 8% say he did something illegal.

Still, there are lingering doubts about Bush's military service more generally. The public is divided as to whether the characteristic or quality, "did his duty for the country during the Vietnam War," applies to Bush: 42% say the statement applies to Bush and 40% say the statement does not apply to him (18% have no opinion). In contrast, 68% say that characteristic or quality applies to Kerry, with 11% saying it does not and 21% not expressing an opinion.

more…
http://www.gallup.com/content/?ci=10690

[JaySherman]

1. *sigh*

:shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Overall this is quite interesting since he has gotten SO much

benefit of the doubt, but little by little things add up. If one takes opinions on IWR, yellow cake, and now this at least one can say the seemingly inpenetrable prior assessment that he is overall honest seems to be a bit chipped away.

[grytpype]

6. Agreed.

The facade is crumbling.

[ozymandius]

15. I think that we will be hearing more about this later.

In a conversation with a friend, I made the point that Bush has an uphill battle for credibility and, therefore, re-(s)election. My friend, an older gentleman who is also an astute veteran trial attorney, countered with the notion asking, rhetorically, if I honestly believe that the American public will hold all of Bush's mistakes and deceptions in their tiny little minds until election day.

I said, "Probably not. But there is always someone keeping score."

That being said - there are already several "someones" keeping score with great evidence. All of the organizations like MoveOn, Real Majority, George Soros and others are making no secret of their intentions. They have the information and the engines to parade the info before everyone with a weak memory. These people are smart enough to know how to time its release.

[snippy]

20. I think that your friend is right. But if it becomes common for people

to ridicule Bush for his incessant and compulsive lying then I think Bush would be toast.

Everyone except Bush himself knows where he was during his Alabama National Guard service and the Bush administration did not reveal the identity of a CIA operative but the White House is cooperating with the 9/11 commission since democrats support terrorism and are not good Americans just as the Jews were not good Germans and government spending has gone down if you do not count the increased government spending but the boxes were labeled "Made in USA" even though the $400 billion decorative medicare turkey was not labeled $525 billion and Bush's plane to Baghdad was spotted because before Saddam bought the uranium and became an urgent but not imminent threat Bush had no plans on his desk to invade Iraq since the aircraft carrier was too far offshore for the Navy to make a large enough banner to describe the WMD we have found in Iraq some of which could hit the US and some of which Saddam was giving to Osama for following Saddam's plans and using Iraqi hijackers on 9/11 but everyone got a tax cut which created 3,000,000 new jobs and allowed Iraqi oil revenue to pay for the cost of the reconstruction of Iraq after the invasion by a small number of troops who would be greeted with floral program related activities because Bush and Rice did not ignore the August 6, 2001 intelligence briefing warning of the upcoming 9/11 attacks and that is why Bush who is responsible for good economic numbers but not bad economic numbers wrote the poem that he did not write blaming Laura for dropping the dog.

There is no subject so shallow, serious, or somber that Bush will not lie about it. The only other option is not to lie. And that Bush can not do.

[diamond14]

3. real bad for shrub: 33% unethical actions..8 % illegal actions...

and 42% think shrub did NOT do his service for the country during Vietnam.....and not everybody is paying attention to bush* NG record....but they will...a little closer to the campaign...

-------------
Among those who have heard or read a great deal about Bush's National Guard service, 56% say he did nothing 'seriously' wrong, 33% say he did something unethical, and 8% say he did something illegal.

Still, there are lingering doubts about Bush's military service more generally. The public is divided as to whether the characteristic or quality, "did his duty for the country during the Vietnam War," applies to Bush: 42% say the statement applies to Bush and 40% say the statement does not apply to him (18% have no opinion). In contrast, 68% say that characteristic or quality applies to Kerry, with 11% saying it does not and 21% not expressing an opinion

[ConcernedCanuk]

4. Hopefully this means nothing

.
.
.

But if this is an indication of American apathy

and how much they REALLY know and care what's going on

It's friggen scary !!

[AngryYoungMan]

5. I flatly don't believe it.

This is one of those things where people want to sound smart etc. when pollsters call. I simply don't believe it. It's too nonsensical.

[fearnobush]

7. Most of those polls are way off base. Only 3 out of ten people

actually agree to participate. More over, since the Guard story broke, Bush's numbers went way down in terms of head to head with the candidates. Kerry's 12% lead, Edwards 10% lead. I think the public sees that the dental records Bush provided only prove that Bush was lying threw his teeth.

[Snazzy]

8. always loaded questions

"Among those who have heard or read a great deal about Bush's National Guard service, 56% say he did nothing seriously wrong, 33% say he did something unethical, and 8% say he did something illegal."

Nothing seriously wrong. What do you get if you simply ask if he did something wrong? How many responding can define unethical? Will anybody else agree with that definition.

Most importantly, did the missing three percent tell them where to stick it?

[POed_Ex_Repub]

9. So... is this the press telling us

That we need to jump on the bandwagon and give * a pass on this one?

:eyes:

[Mandate My Ass]

22. Exactly, they might as well have said "get over it"

I don't believe it for a minute. The fact that Bush is calling out the military to protect his punk ass at the RNC tells me a lot more about the attitudes toward him in this country than this poll. Watch what they do, not what they say.

[UpInArms]

27. My thoughts mirror yours on this one

reminds me of "the American public is being very patient" during the confusion of the counting/recounting/court proceedings of the November (2000) election - spiel -

telling everyone what to think and how to act -

keeping folks from understanding the depth of the theft and lies

:puke:

[nolabels]

34. I never found it hard to understand

If I didn't show up for duty, I would be AWOL

As for the other part "understanding the depth of the theft and lies" that is another part all together. I never was a fan of presidential libraries, but it probably will take one to describe all of them that were put forward

[david_vincent]

10. George W. Bush

and O.J. Simpson in 2004!

[cyr330]

11. So what else is new?

They didn't care about the Patriot Act, Enron, Bush stealing the 2000 election, and now we expect them to care that he went AWOL in the 1970s? Please. The American public is too obsessed with watching Survivor and other vapid shit on TV. They're past the point of no return.


On Edit: Corrected Typo

[BR_Parkway]

14. 11,000,000 votes for American Idol

c'mon, lets keep the priorities! </sarcasm>

[Voltaire99]

17. Agreed - the new Harper's has a great piece on this very problem

If you haven't already, see this month's Harper's Magazine for Francine Prose's brilliant article on how Survivor and its ilk embody the Republican ethos.

[lebkuchen]

12. Clinton would never have been so fortunate

...because of the GOP media.

[ex_jew]

13. Could this bring us the 537 votes we needed to win ?

Might could possibly.

[absolutezero]

16. all the attention its been getting

and only 50 percent of those polled had heard about it?

doesn't seem right

[NNN0LHI]

18. If true it just proves the Dem's have some more work to do n/t

[rhino91063]

19. The actions them self are not important

It is the THEME that bush lies, deceives and misleads that is the killer. This whole affair just strengthens that perception.

[snippy]

21. Agreed. The theme needs to be stressed each time Bush lies between

now and November. That means it will need to be stressed thousands of times between now and then. The DNC needs to have some staff dedicated only to this.

[GovtMule]

23. I mess around on another board not devoted to politics...

but much of the discussion is political. A lot of the hardcore Bush-haters are wanting to let it go, so I believe this poll. The right-wingers brush off everything as "liberal media," so you can forget about them.

There's just too much minutiae to sift through, which I have and thus am convinced he was AWOL for a time. This was over for a lot of people when Scottie boy waved those illegible pay stubs in the air. I hope it is picked up again. It would be a boon in that you catch them in a lie and tear down the tough military guy and the Christian simultaneously.

[Cooley Hurd]

24. The damage has been done...

You couldn't have asked for better timing. The AWOL question came out at a time when the Chimp's credibility was heading south. In a two week period, he was confronted with the WMD lie, the 9/11 stonewall, the AWOL issue and the fudging of the jobs forecast. His #'s are at an all-time low and it appears they're not going to go up anytime soon. No Saddam-capture bounce, no SOTU bounce, no MTP bounce. The ball has been deflated.

However, we can't let up the pressure now. There's 9 months to go and we still have the Plame investigation (which appears to be heading straight for Cheney's office), the 9/11 commission's findings and the disaster called Operation Iraqi Freedom (that will, unfortunately for our troops, only get worse as the hand-over deadline nears). Let's keep hammering!

[Junkdrawer]

25. Let's see:

1.) 24 hour spin by the usual media outlets? --- check

2.) Apathy by the remaining media outlets? --- check

3.) Vicious counterattack? --- check

4.) Push polls to convince us of the "right" reaction? --- check

Yep. The machine is still functioning well.

[Spentastic]

26. Can we call them Sheeple?

Or would that be too insulting?

[salin]

28. Remember... this story alone isn't the big thing... it is the part it

plays in the bigger mantra of... "credibility... credibility... credibility" And on that point, I think the story hits a nerve and does its job in helping create the public perception that bush is less than forthright an honest... when soundly in place the real issues take on a much stronger valence on the credibility of bush, his administration, and the GOP in general:

- the lying us into war (and reminding folks that the UN Inspection teams were on the ground... and pulled out because of our invasion)...

- the lying about jobs and the economy...

-the lying about fiscal impact of policies... etc

[trogdor]

29. By itself, it's probably not such a big deal.

However, it reinforces pre-existing doubts people have about his overall character. It may not be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but it contributes to the cause.

[Jack Rabbit]

30. We might have some work to do

When asked for their views on Bush's actions in the matter, Americans tend to give Bush the benefit of the doubt. About half of Americans, 49%, say he did not do anything seriously wrong. Thirty-one percent say he did something unethical, but not illegal, and only 4% say he did something illegal. A majority, 54%, disagrees with the notion that Bush is hiding something regarding his National Guard service, while 36% believe that there is more to the story than Bush has revealed.

Seriously wrong as opposed to just wrong is a matter of judgment. What Bush did was probably not illegal. However, it was pretty flakey. Is he hiding something? You bet he is. Anybody paying close attention to the matter knows that.

[Jackpine Radical]

31. I keep telling ya, polls like this are NOT accurate.

They have no idea what population their sample represents. If they did it by telephone in the middle of the day, they got an overrepresentation of stay-at-homes with nothing better to do than answer stupid questions.

So maybe they should present their results by saying, "Among people who answer their home phones in the middle of the day, 42% think Bush did his duty...." Sounds a lot different, doesn't it?

Remember--an election poll has a natural validating mechanism, namely, the election itself, whereby you can assess accuracy of the poll. In contrast, polls of this sort have no validating mechanism. There is no way you can ever find out how accurate the poll was. If you try to claim that you're measuring the opinion of "the public" then you have to prove that you have adequately sampled "the public" so that every member of "the public" has an equal chance of being sampled. This is patently nonsense. To start with, you are sampling only the population of people with land-line phones who don't hang up on you. This is not synonymous with "the public," and is likely to be quite a biased sample. Nurses will be underrepresented, developmentally delayed adults may be overrepresented, people who live under bridges totally excluded, etc.

[Fla_Dem]

32. Perhaps this is an issue

that most of the sheeple just don't really give a crap about. They are more concerned with the economy and taking care of their family than what dumbass did during Vietnam.

[Bragi]

33. This is good!

No reason to be sorrowful over this. This issue was buried and nowhere in 2000 when the media gave Bush a free pass on just about every character issue.

Now people know that there is something "not quite right" about Bush's personal military service, and it underscores doubt about his integrity.

This issue has gone as far as it is likely to, and it's been helpful in undermining the image he wanted to create as a brave Warrior King. At minimum, I don't think we'll be seeing Bush put on a flight suit in the near future.

- B

[Ganja Ninja]

35. If by repeating a lie often enough will make people believe it...

then repeating the truth often enough should have the same effect.

[ljm2002]

36. What we should do next

Here is a proposed research project:

Find a TANG person whose service was contemporary with Bush's. Obtain all of this person's military records -- pay stubs, medical files, reports, etc. Line them up against the ones that the White House has provided for Bush. Note carefully which records in the WH collection are "missing". Find out where the different sorts of records are normally stored -- where they would have been created originally, what outfit and location handled which types of records, and where they got sent to when archived.

I'm betting that Bush's records of all types from a certain period of time will come up "missing". If it was really a case of poor handling of records, and some of his records just got "lost", one would expect that there would be *some* of his records from that time period that would show up, because sloppy handling would only have lost a subset.

Oh, how I wish I could do this research myself, or could hire someone to do it.

[grasswire]

37. one of the bloggers....

....is asking for someone who served in the guard to obtain his "full" record and present it publicly for comparison. Go through page by page and see what's missing from George's records.

Although if George got any disciplinary actions (as it appears) and those records are missing, this comparison won't help.

[Jackpine Radical]

38. The disciplinary actions might still show up

on documents such as the DD 214 Separation Record.