N.J. Town Shocked As Dead Birds Fall From Sky

[Robbien]

Source: CBS

Dead birds were found all over Franklin Township in Somerset County, reports CBS station WCBS-TV in New York City. On front lawns, rooftops, and even in the middle of the street. Neighbors are still picking them up, while others are frightened to even get near them.

Andrea Kepic says it was like a scene out of a horror movie when she walked out of her home Friday night. "There was a dead bird on my stoop. Then I looked beyond and saw other dead birds on my steps," she says. "I thought first they were diseased."

Kepic says she looked around and there were dead birds as far as her eyes could see. "I walked over to my car stepping over them," she says.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture confirms it is responsible for a controlled kill to reduce the European starling population. Township manager Ken Daly says the USDA placed seeds tainted with poison at a local farm to kill as many as 5,000 of the birds.

"The birds eat the seed and metabolize the poison and die with 24 hours," he tells WCBS. "Once they metabolize, the poison is gone so we've been told by USDA that the carcasses are not a danger to humans or any animals that might eat them."



Read more: http://wcbstv.com/watercooler/usda.bird.kill.2.918730.html

---

A local paper editorial:

Officials at the U.S. Department of Agriculture are one heck of a tight-lipped group. How else is there to explain the massive poisoning of blackbirds and starlings over the weekend, spreading thousands of carcasses across Franklin Township — on top of roofs, driveways, gutters and cars — and scaring residents silly?

Aside from a cryptic notice received late on Friday, township officials had little idea what the USDA was planning to do: setting out poison seed to kill off some of the voracious raiders of agricultural fields. So when the bodies started dropping literally out of the sky, the folks at Town Hall had few ready answers.

Aside from the unnecessary fear that was stoked, there is another, bigger reason to take offense to the kill-off: those blackbird-poisoning programs run by UDSA have little basis in science or on economic grounds. Studies have shown the mass killings have little effect on crop damage, while populations of blackbirds tend to rebound rapidly, though natural methods that compensate for mass die-offs, so the costly programs are largely ineffective.

The USDA should scrap the program.
http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20090127/OPINION01/901270306/-1/newsfront

[FSogol]

1. Magic poison that disappears after killing birds? Yeah, right.

What an idiotic program.

[AlexDeLarge]

14. And I'm sure

that no other animal would ever eat one of those thousands of dead birds. And, of course, the magic poison will have disappeared so there's no harm.

[elias7]

37. Heard the term "metabolism"? Not magic.

[lonestarnot]

62. So can a person metabolize this stuff too?

Maybe that's how they get rid of people w/o a trace? Don't know how all of that works. :shrug:

[elias7]

79. who has disappeared without a trace?

How stuff works is called science. Certain things are toxic to some species but not to others. Chemicals, when ingested, get metabolized into non-toxic and toxic metabolites. Sometimes, non-toxic metabolites overload a system, leading to organ damage. There's nothing magic about using a chemical that selectively does a thing.

With poisonings in humans, some toxins are transmissible, some are inactivated. Different precautions are taken regarding contact depending on the toxin. For example, someone poisoned with ricin or botulinum toxin will not transmit it to health care workers.

Feed a human chocolate, they're happy. Feed a dog chocolate, they could die. Pesticides supposedly target insects but not other species. Tylenol, in physiologic doses is harmless, but in overdose results in an overload of the usual pathways causing a secondary metabolic pathway that is toxic to the liver. If you understand the limitations and differing aspects of a bird's physiology, then you can target something for birds and not for mammals.

It seems like the real issue for many posting on the thread is the secrecy of the project. Openness is always better, less suspicion, less mistrust of government.

[file83]

88. The only problem with that explanation is what if the bird dies BEFORE it

metabolizes all the poison?

For example, it's common sense to envision a scenario where the bird eats poisoned seeds right before it dies from it's first poison seed meal. So the poison could still contaminate other creatures or water supplies.

So, to completely right off all danger because you ASSUME it all gets metabolized is a false premise.

[elias7]

89. Exactly an issue that must be considered...

We are all operating with no information. If I was tasked to thin the European Starling population, I would be remiss not to consider all variables. Could we find a poison that affects Starlings alone, or only birds, or one which degrades quickly into a non-toxic substance if not ingested or metabolized. Poisoning other animals, plants, water, etc. is exactly what is not acceptable. The valid concern is if has that standard been met prior to releasing the poison.

If not, what happened was bad. But we would like to have faith in our scientists. After all, they have done some pretty amazing things...

[babylonsister]

2. This is disturbing. Why were they hiding their actions? I'd be pissed.

And what other animals could those seeds have poisoned?

[Robbien]

9. True. There seems to be more squirrels and rabbits at the bird seed

in my little backyard wildlife feed center than there are birds.

Plus, what did they do to attract only sterlings? Put up a sign saying no other birds allowed?

[misanthrope]

72. That's the important question to me. Where's the transparency?**nm

**

[TomClash]

3. More Bush bull

Probably payoffs to some bullshit USDA "Brownie Capitalists" so they can hitchcock a bunch of birds. :eyes:

[merh]

4. I don't trust the USDA - too much has been allowed to slide by

we need all of our government agencies cleansed and reminded that their jobs are to serve the citizens and not corporations.

A controlled kill without notifying the public of the dead birds falling out of the sky is irresponsible and to me, mighty friggin suspicious.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

47. Bushco cut back on USDA operations...

... to cater to their capitalist cronies, don't blame the USDA for what Bushco has done to it anymore than to blame the SEC for what Bushco and Phil Gramm did to it, namely cutting funds for regulatory oversight.

BTW, blackbirds and starlings are PESTS. Have you ever gone past an orchard in the early evening as the blackbirds come back to roost? The cacaphony of birds calling disturbs the peace for blocks.

[misanthrope]

73. The cars with loud stereos going past my house disturb me...

...Can I poison them?

[ima_sinnic]

78. I love that "cacphony"

here in Maine it occurs in early early spring and makes the place sound almost tropical.

[ElboRuum]

5. Fine if it doesn't work...

...that's another lawn full of dead birds. Why the hell would you do this with little notice and scare people silly?

[Ian David]

6. See also: Silent Spring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring

[tabatha]

7. They should have been notified.

But, if it is a blood-thinner, then the danger is gone when the bird is dead.
European Starlings are a pest, and displace native birds.

[jkappy]

11. n. americans are pests too and displace indigenous people

[tabatha]

21. cannot disagree

they displace not only native people, but native animals and plants.

[dixiegrrrrl]

30. Welcome to DU.

Zinger.

:)

[texastoast]

42. Point

especially when they don't control their numbers.

[Psephos]

65. indigenous people are pests too and displace original fauna

no coincidence that extinctions of numerous species coincided with arrival of humans in north america

but "original" fauna displaced other, more ancient fauna, so they were pests too

if you get my drift

[Posteritatis]

74. and those more ancient fauna were pests that displaced the anaerobics

It'd probably take some work to go further back than that, alas. ;)

[Psephos]

86. lol - you *do* get my drift :)

[Mojorabbit]

33. I am not so sure

I do wildlife rehab and a lot of poisons have secondary victims.

[underpants]

8. Where did they expect them to go?

Just asking

[bigworld]

10. Maybe they didn't want to tip off the birds in advance...

[semillama]

12. I see a huge problem with this program

And it should be blatantly obvious to any wildlife manager.

How do you ensure that it's only the starlings that eat the poisoned seed? How do they prevent species that are experiencing population crashes, like Rusty Blackbird, from also eating the seeds (Rusty Blackbirds have seen population reductions estimated at up to 95%)?

[Chulanowa]

44. Starlings travel in very large flocks and tend to drive away competition

Generally where there's lots of starlings, there's not going to be lots of the birds they replace, such as bluebirds, or those blackbirds you mentioned. I also have high doubts that the seed stations were unmonitored.

It's hard to reduce the populations of pest birds without measures like this, and yes, starlings are a much bigger threat to native bird populations than this seed station is. It's not nice and it's not clean, but options are fairly limited unfortunately.

[bertman]

52. Thank you for a rational explanation, Chulanowa. It makes perfect sense to me except

for the part about not announcing it to the public in advance.

Of course, if they had done that, they would have been besieged by PETA and other wildlife groups claiming it is cruel and a danger to the public and un American, etc.

But, of course, when the native birds have disappeared they will be the same people who will be wanting to know why the government didn't do anything about the goddam starlings before they displaced the native species.

I'm glad I'm not in charge of that program. What a thankless job.

[Chulanowa]

71. Yeah, that part is bogus

It should have been announced. When birds start dropping dead, people freak.

On the other hand, had it been announced, I'm sure someone would have tried to tie it up in red tape, and the bigger problem - an environment-degrading invasive species - would do unchecked.

Animal control has got to be one of the worst jobs in the world. About the only worse job I can think of is being the poor son of a bitch who runs the clinic portion of an animal shelter. Three days, then the needle. Hateful work, but a sadly necessary job.

[XemaSab]

50. I thought about Rusty Blackbirds too

:(

[OwnedByFerrets]

13. Pay no attention to those dead birds on the lawn.....

look over there, look over there.

[Dr.Phool]

15. Capt. Sully giving paybacks.

Or Dick Cheney has a lot of free time on his hands now.

[tclambert]

36. Oh, I was gonna go for the Dick Cheney joke.

Something like "Now that he can't torture people for fun, Dick Cheney has to get his enjoyment from killing small animals, and occasionally shooting old guys in the face."

[TheCentepedeShoes]

66. Big flock of Canada Geese

went over my house about 6:20 tonight. Honking like crazy. Going from SW to NE, headed toward the airport.

[JVS]

81. LOL!

[glinda]

16. BS magic poison. Cats, other creatures will eat them and die also am sure. And

What next, do it to people on a mass scale????????

[nichomachus]

17. OTOH -- I would be very shocked if dead birds didn't fall from the sky

If they just kind of floated up there after dying, I would be extremely concerned.

[stubtoe]

18. USDA doesn't share much info when the method they use is likely to be controversial.

Evidently, the poisoned birds die where they roost, after they eat the bait.

Only problem here is that the roosting site was miles away, in Franklin Township, not on the property they were poisoned on.

Ooops! USDA thought they'd get away with it, and that there would be no public impact or outcry. Little miscalculation there. Now they have a situation on their hands.

Earlier thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4920143

[Tab]

19. Bizarre. n/t

[paparush]

20. In an Unrelated Story - RAF Admits to Firing on UFO's.

[rocktivity]

22. That's absolutely awful--how frghtening it must have been

and how needless. The people should have been told. Why did they have to keep it a big secret, especially in this day and age?

:mad:
rocktivity

[TygrBright]

23. Mother Mary onna pogo stick!! Haven't these morons ever heard of PREDATORS?

Why not introduce a few pairs of peregrine falcons into any area overpopulated with starlings/blackbirds? Or other raptors? What is WITH these idiots?

MUST be Bush appointees.

disgustedly,
Bright

[Blue Dog Dominion]

45. Mother Nature my ass. My cat did it. He's a jedi.

[Lorien]

68. Exactly. It's worked for the Amish for centuries

but it doesn't enrich poison producers. Sick greedy bastards.

[catgirl]

24. Replace these idiots with real scientists

The USDA has done this disasterous action before. Apparently they can't admit to their
mistakes. The secrecy was done to avoid lawsuits that would have stalled or stopped
the poisonings.

[Zodiak]

46. You might not want to hear this

But a good proportion of the USDA are real scientists. The only problem is these scientists do not get to decide what they are going to do from day to day, year to year. The government pretty much orders them to study what the government wants them to study. And if the government asks them to do a die-off like this, they pretty much have to oblige, regardless of the scientific basis. USDA scientists also do not have to deal with the rigors of peer-review, as much of their research is kept as property of the government...to disseminate, keep, dispose of, whatever (Bush preferred the latter).

I really would like to know the opinions of the USDA scientists on this practice, but I suspect we will never heard from them. They just follow orders and collect paychecks.

The stifling environment of the USDA is why, as a scientist, I would not work for the USDA, even though the pay is generally better than academia.

[catgirl]

77. I hope the environment at the USDA is less stifling under Obama

as well as at the FDA, the EPA, etc.

[bkkyosemite]

25. I have a feeling the poison story is a coverup for them testing something else. Alas the poison

disappears...to answer a question that the public would certainly ask.. We are not stupid out here. What are they messing with now.

[tom_paine]

39. 98% certainty. Bushie M.O.: lie about EVERYTHING

It is unquestionable that something else is going on here. What it is, I cannot say, but the idea that SOMETHING, probably well-beyond the lies told the community, is going on here is a 98% certainty, knowing Bushie Criminality and M.O.

[yellowcanine]

26. Reminds me of the great pigeon die off when I was in graduate school.

Physical Plant decided to reduce the pigeon population during winter break and fed the birds poisoned corn. Unfortunately the corn took several days to do the deed and the pigeons were still lying around campus in the feet up position after the students returned for spring semester. Caused a helluva ruckus.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

51. I recall the same thing when in college...

...the pigeons were becoming a problem at the old gymnasium, so they put out poisoned corn. To create the necessary quorum for the student government assembly, they spread the word that the pigeon poison caused the local squirrels that ate the poisoned corn to become sterile. Those curious about squirrels and not so much about student government showed up and when enough heads were in the gymnasium, they closed the doors and votes on issues where held!

[Javaman]

27. "while others are frightened to even get near them."

firsted days drops from da sky, then days explodeses!!!

[Zodiak]

49. Most children are told by their parents to stay away from dead birds

And most adults remember that advice they got from their mothers. Of course the reason cited is always rabies, which is a mammalian disease, but I digress.

So it is not mass hysteria...just well disseminated advice. Right or wrong.

[GreenPartyVoter]

67. I tell my own kids to stay away from dead animals. Just makes sense to me.

[onethatcares]

28. why the hell did they have to poison them?

this doesn't make any sense.

[earcandle]

29. How sad.

And frightening. The disease economy is trying so hard to
start a bird flu epidemic to address overpopulation issues.  I
hope this isn't one of their duplicious moves to trigger a
disease.

Shouldn't there be some public notice in advance?  And
shouldn't there be some public debate about killing animals
before we kill them?  These are living organisms.  It seems so
unfair to the birds.  

[THUNDER HANDS]

31. are those special blackbird seeds they planted?

i mean, it's not as if ALL birds eat seeds, right?

or squirrels

or cats or dogs

or pretty much anything forraging for food in the winter.

[Politicalboi]

32. Canary in a coal mine

Would have come to my mind right away. They could have had a panic on their hands. When birds start falling from the sky and dropping dead I would think the air is poisioned. And if these people didn't know what was going on why the fuck do they pick up dead birds taking a chance it could be a virus.

[ClarkUSA]

34. What happens to the poison-dipped seeds that don't get eaten?

[OswegoAtheist]

54. r.e.: What happens to the poison-dipped seeds that don't get eaten?

Oswego "and George W. Bush must be tried for war crimes" Atheist

[Botany]

35. A good starling is a dead starling

non native invassive junk bird .... trust me on this one.

[daninthemoon]

43. i hate starlings. sparrows too. seems like every year i see fewer

native birds at my feeders. today I saw a red wing blackbird for the first time in months. i used to get dozens a day.

[Botany]

56. Starlings force out the native song birds .....

... some sparrows are o.k. such as the song sparrow but the english sparrow is a best

[tabatha]

57. you mean house sparrows.

There are lots of native sparrows.

[daninthemoon]

61. exactly what i meant. i do sometimes get some native sparrows

with crests and whatnot, but it is the english sparrow i referred to as another european species that is very harmful. i can't keep them out of my purple martin house. i only put out safflower seed at my feders anymore, but they have now begun to take over those feeders as well.

[Lorien]

70. They aren't taking over the feeders. Development is destroying the habitats

of native birds/ songbirds. Other birds aren't the culprit; man is.

[catgirl]

76. Great point (nt)

[WriteDown]

82. Uh.....

bluebirds in the US have been a rarity for a century. Nothing to do with development in that instance. A good starling is a dead starling is an apt phrase.

[Lorien]

69. So the poison ONLY killed starlings?

doesn't sound like it.

And no, I don't trust you. No bird is a "junk" bird.

[progressoid]

84. Yep.

[tclambert]

38. Is the USDA gonna clean out everybody's gutters?

Did they just assume the dead birds would vanish into thin air? Hey, USDA poison program manager! You gotta clean up your mess! Didn't you pay attention in kindergarten?

[texastoast]

40. I'd like to know who approved THAT!

Makes me furious.

[rucky]

41. WKRP is at it again!

[bergs]

48. That is pretty seriously messed up.

Hopefully the new administration's emphasis on science will lead to the end of this nonsense.

[and-justice-for-all]

53. The USDA and FDA should not be doing jack shit...

without the public's knowledge prior to...If they are dropping poison then they need to tell us when what and how much with a list of all the possible effects to us and other animals. You can not just attack birds and not have it effect something else as well.

[happygoluckytoyou]

55. ITS A BIRD..... ITS A PLANE..... NOPE... IT WAS A BIRD.... NOW IT IS AN EX-PARROT

[rvablue]

58. This is totally F*CKED UP! How many dead cats are people going

to find when they wake up in the morning or come home from work in a couple of weeks?

I'm sure many kitties ate some of these birds and the poison will at minimum do some physical damage to them if not outright kill them.

People should have been warned ahead of time so they could keep their cats safe inside.

[LiberalEsto]

59. I used to live in Franklin Township, NJ

It's a huge township, stretching from New Brunswick to Princeton, and contains little communities like Somerset, Middlebush, Franklin Park and Griggstown. I was editor of a tiny local newspaper there in the early 70s.

This is bizarre. I can understand why farmers might want to get rid of huge flocks of starlings. But at the same time, people in the area should have been warned in detail beforehand.

[Sequoia]

60. That reminds me of that 1973 sci-fi book "The Sheep Look Up"

That is one scary book and it is not sci-fi anymore but just about everything in that book is true today. The only difference is the techonology we have today, like laptops, cell phones, etc.

[Jefferson23]

63. So no one was warned about dead birds falling from the sky??

What a bizarre program.

[goforit]

64. OMG!!!.....We should have been notified prior to this event!!!

[Bright Eyes]

75. Oh wow. I live in Franklin.

I didn't see any dead birds when I went out though.

[babydollhead]

80. kick

[lovuian]

83. first the birds then humans

we are next

[Blandocyte]

85. Tax dollars

at work. Probably some better things to spend the money on than killing a ton of birds.

[appleannie1]

87. And I spend hundreds of dollars each year on seed and suet to feed birds. MY BAD

[hunter]

90. I think I might be gathering up dead birds to stuff into someone's car.

How many dead starlings do you think it would take?

:yoiks: