North Korea military says to "wipe out" the South

[galileoreloaded]

Source: Reuters

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea's army said on Saturday it would assume an "all-out confrontational posture" against the South and wipe out the conservative government in Seoul for refusing to cooperate with them.

Ties across the heavily-armed border between the two Koreas have turned icy since President Lee Myung-bak came to office last year on a promise to get tough on his communist neighbour after 10 years of liberal leaders' efforts to engage Pyongyang.

"Now that traitor Lee Myung Bak and his group opted for confrontation, denying national reconciliation and cooperation, backed by foreign forces, our revolutionary armed forces are compelled to take an all-out confrontational posture to shatter them," the North's army spokesman said.

The spokesman said Lee and his "puppet military warhawks" have driven "our revolutionary armed forces to take a strong military retaliatory step to wipe them out," in comments carried by the official KCNA news agency.

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKTRE50G1KW20090117

[stray cat]

1. sounds peaceful - except for denying S. Korea's right to exist

:sarcasm:

[lurky]

2. Translation: "There's a new U.S. president. Let's see how

much BS he lets us get away with."

[Endangered Specie]

5. good analysis, bet they also figure they can get away with more

during a transition.

[Turbineguy]

3. My Dutch Grandmother always had an interesting view of WWII

When the Nazi's invaded the Netherlands in May 1940, one of her most poignant memories was a German soldier sitting on the curb in front of a bakery eating a package of butter. No bread, just the butter.

I imagine it to be similar there.

[sasquatch]

8. He was that damn hungary for butter

Wow, I've never heard of that before.

[onehandle]

4. Heckofajob, Bushie and Ricey! nt

[santamargarita]

6. I'm for wiping out all conservative governments!

But I'd rather do the way we did...at least it's a start

[Zynx]

9. I would take any conservative government there has been over North Korea's government.

I should narrow that to any elected in the last sixty years just so people don't include Nazis and such.

[Posteritatis]

10. Even then, I'd probably at least briefly think about it

North Korea's got most of the nastiness, more of the leadership cult, and none of the, ah, competence (for lack of a better word) that the Germans had in '33-'45. Vile, vile regime.

[Psephos]

21. Agreed completely...however, Nazis were from the left, not the right.

As in National Socialist Party.

As Koestler observed in his famous essay, "The Yogi and the Commissar," the extreme left and the extreme right kind of curve around and merge.

[Angleae]

23. Oh boy, another "nazi's were leftists".

Sorry, just because the name of their party contained the word "socialist" doesn't mean that's what they were. The full name of North Korea if "Democratic People's Repulic of Korea", yet noone has ever accused them of being a democracy. Ditto for "German Democratic Republic" (East Germany). Nazi's and Hitler were right-wing fascists through-and-through, just look at the groups they systematically sent to prison (communists, socialists, trade unionists, homosexuals, gypsies, as well as jews).

[Zynx]

24. I really don't see that. The Socialist was in name only. There's a reason industrialists backed them

[The Straight Story]

25. I dunno about that fully, they were pretty good at the nanny state and

nationalism - and I am not talking the pride part, I am talking about making people feel guilty for not what is right for the all at the expense of freedom.

The method these days is to tell people what they do affects the health of others, the planet, etc and so on and then start eroding rights based on that.

Eventually we will all live solely for the benefit of 'all' as defined by the few - and we will rationalize it to boot.

[bertman]

28. I'm wondering what you thought of the "We Are One" theme for Obama's inaugural

concert yesterday, The Straight Story.

I don't object to the concept of the "common good" being a driving force in politics and government as long as it does not preempt individual rights.

[The Straight Story]

30. Well that is what it all comes down to

Does X preempt an individuals' rights?

What worries me is how those goal posts keep moving and the roots that are planted in fear. Y has the right do X for now, but later someone says X may affect others in some negative way so they are infringing on Z's rights.

The classic scenario we see on DU a lot is smoking in a bar. People have a choice where to work and drink but others feel they are not smart enough to make the decision themselves so create new laws around that. Seat belts are similar. And the list goes on (just do a daily search on the word 'ban' on google news for other bans).

"We are one" has a good ring to it, for we are all one species sharing this place together and should have common goals for the betterment of all as that benefits us. Carrying that too far though erases the individual for a more 'nationalistic' existence, and that can lead to a real dangerous path when you get people in power who use that power and propaganda to make the majority think something is right for them all when it is really wrong (ala the Germans, they were told something was good for them and the nation, were driven by fear, and killed millions who stood in their way).

The government exists by the people as a way to pool our resources for what we all see as a common good (or need) - roads, military, health care, regulations on land use and business practices, etc. But at some point you draw a line in the sand.

The theme to me would have been: We are individuals, we are straight, gay, black, white, indian, religious, atheist, we are many come together in one voice to protect the liberties and freedoms of people to be themselves and make their own choices even when those choices are not in their own best interest."

We are not one, we are many. You cannot be free when the MAIN focus is protecting everyone from everything. Because there is always someone who can whip up the masses to pass legislation that they think will better the whole group, there is always someone who wants to impose new laws based on their theory of life and happiness. People like those in the 80's who wanted folks with AIDS to be rounded up to protect others. Some folks actually thought it was a good idea because it would protect people - and it would have protected people right? Get rid of everyone with the disease and no one else would get it. And let's outlaw sex outside of marriage, as they would cut down on other STD's and save us money on health care. Outlaw drinking as it hurts people too. And so on.

Freedom of choice, freedom over one's own body and the decision where to go for a drink, who to sleep with, whom to marry, etc. Freedom scares some people who need more structure to feel secure. When they start using the all for one and one for all thing it can be a dangerous thing.

[bertman]

31. I tend to agree with you. Thanks for a very nuanced explanation.

[Zodiak]

27. The Nazis were NOT left!

That is a Republican talking point. Do you think that going after gays, Jews, gypsies, and liberals is a leftist thing?

Hitler came to power by oppressing communists, and he established a very right-wing fascist government, complete with religious symbols, nationalism, corporatism, and bigotry. Hitler was many things, but a leftist he was not.

[Zhade]

32. Wow. That's got to be just about the stupidest thing you've ever said.

NT!

[Psephos]

33. Your superbly constructed argument leaves me awestruck. lol

[ohio2007]

7. Must have discovered oil in the north or...dear leader has suffered his final stroke

either way, it's on Baracks watch in 48 hrs

[Diclotican]

11. galileoreloaded

galileoreloaded

I hope this is More "hot air" than reality. North Korea have a army who count 1.4 million, standing. And have build out the border at 48 parael to be one of the most heavily defended places on earth.. But you never know with the North Koreans even that the generals there know that a war on the Korean pensulia are not to the north best interest, because their country is not in any shape of a war, that be with South Korea or others.. And this time they can not count on forces from China, that train have possible been going for a long time because China are not that found of NK anymore...

This can be more with the fact that the North have a big problem on their hand. Their "dear leader" is possible dead, or to ill to really matter anymore, and then the leadership in the North have a problem on their hand.. Political speaking, if their leader is dead, and no one want or dear to take the lead, then North Korea very soon would disintegrate as a state.. And even that we do not know to much of how things is working inside the North we know what can happened if the whole country are disintegrate from the inside out.. And we know that North Korea have millions of poor koreans, who have nothing, and I MEAN nothing, and need everything, from food to cloth, to housing, to something to work with and so on. I would guess the health care system in the North is so backward that even Romania in the 1980s is better... In worst scenario, as I have read it, millions of starving, hungry needy Koreans from the north can came south to South Korea and to China, to get a chance there. And it doesn't look that either South Korea or China have the system on place, to make it better or at least to shelter and give them some food.. It have been some scenario the last couple of years, to se how the South coup ted with the fact that as many as 10 millions was fleeing the border to the south - and it was not that rose read what was the end result.. In many cases the South just doesn't had the resources to make the transition from North Korea, to a more unfitted state to a easy way. The North are in so many needs, that even if South Korea, and the rest of the world would spend billions of money to make things more easy it would just count for some parts of what is needed..

I believe this to be a ploy, to get the worlds attention, and specially the attention of United States o America because of the new president. And I would guess that mr Obama have to get the North Korea some attention, even that Obama have to make US the nr one issue.. The North is not comfortable with the fact, that US, and the other power to be, have not been listening to Pyongyang for a Long time now. And want some attention.. This tuff voice the North is using is nothing more than that - I hope. And I would guess that US have both aircraft, and satellites covering the North Korean parts 24/7 as we speak, to get some warning against what the North want or not want to do.. After more than 60 year, I would guess the experts on North Korea pretty vell know what happened if the North are doing something on the ground who could bee seeing as possible dangrous...

In any cases, if the North was preparing to make military moves against the south, US have some tools to use, and I would guess that every south koreans who was fit for it, would get into uniform to fight the north, if the North was that foolish to make a war.. And compared to the North, the South have some resources to make use of, if the north was so stupid to wage a war...

I would guess this is a test, to the new american President, to not let the North falling down the river so to speak, and to make a point of treating the South with their army.. On the other side as we have been seeing, the North Korean Leadership have been in problems, with their leader sick and maybe without the possibility of a "care taker" to either a new leader is been found, or the old leader is been ok enough to get into the seat of power, this is a show of force, to tell everyone and no one that the North still are something to reckon with...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[Milspec]

13. Take a look at pictures of the earth at night

heres one web page http://thecontaminated.com/earth-at-night-continents It looks like South Korea is an island!

[daleo]

14. A lot of people have doubts about those pictures

There are a lot of comments there that claim those aren't true photos, for a variety of reasons. It makes for some interesting reading, though.

On edit: for example, look at the "stars" in the upper right hand corner. They don't vary from picture to picture. I can't think of any sattelite that would be positioned in such a way.

[Diclotican]

17. Milspec

Milspec

At the picture of everything, I really doubt that the North Korean have the means to successfully go to war against the South. Why?. Because for the information I have, and that is common knowledge, for the most part the industrial base of North Korea is more or less dead... And even that they do have some contact with China, I really doubt that North Korea have all the weapons to wage a war, specially when the South is far better equipped, and have also the support of the US.. The US have helped South before, and can do that again.... And the North Korean leadership have also another case to consider, the Chinese card. In 1950, the Chinese supported the North Leadership, but we do not know if that is the case today. After the North Korean explosion of the nuclear device, the Chinese leadership was far less than happy about the whole thing, and I really believe that the foreign office of North Korean get some hard time with the Chinese counterpart.. Even that the leadership, maybe never got the real message, a messenger with bad news have reason for fear of his life in that part of the world... The leadership below got the message I guess...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. I think you have a good grasp of the situation, Diocletian

When countries turn belligerent all of a sudden, the reasons are usually internal, no matter what the excuse is.

[Diclotican]

18. Lydia Leftcoast

Lydia Leftcoast

I believe it to also, to be for the internal consumption, not for the foreign consumption. The North Korean leadership if the dear leader is dead need time to get control over the whole of North Korea, Special when it came to the almost Almighty North Korean Army, who are the only institution, outside Police and the Party who have full founding in the country.. It is for the outside world a very difficult thing to predict what happened inside that country. But I fear we might se the start of an power struggle between the leaders, and it might even be one of party bosses who in the end won the game.. Or if one of the sons of "dear leader" even win the competition to be the next leader, we might even se the 3 member of the Kim il Sung family dynasty take the helm, over a country who barly make it from season to sesason... Maybe we even will se a little opening to?.. But that is something I really doubt, than rather the whole country would collapse and we would se what the reality in North Korea indeed are today...

Something I really believe that is a grim signg... Not exactly a workers paradise anymore... But for a people who have been grown up to believe that the rest of the world is as bad as their own... Just think about the scock to discover the truth, we would never know how they would react.. Or maybe not react at all. THis is after all, where the public is subjected for an very hard, author-ian regime from the birth to the grave, and I fear that the north korean people are to afraid to do something about it..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[bushmeister0]

12. In a related scary news story: North Korea has weaponized plutonium!

CNN:

"Selig Harrison, one of the few U.S. scholars granted access to senior North Korean officials, said at a news conference in Beijing that the officials told him they had weaponized 30.8 kilograms of plutonium, enough for four or five warheads. . .

Harrison said one possible reason for Pyongyang's tough new stance could be the declining health of leader Kim Jong Il, who reportedly suffered a stroke last year and may no longer be involved in day-to-day decisions.

'People I talked to have many indications that some important things are submitted to him, but he is not working in the way he used to,' Harrison said.

He said military hard-liners have taken the lead in demanding from the United States a full declaration and verification of all nuclear weapons sent to South Korea between 1957 and 1991. The hard-liners also seek full normalization of relations with Washington before more talks about scrapping their nuclear arsenal."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/17/korea.nuclear/index.html?section=cnn_latest

The scariest question here is: If the Dear Leader isn't in charge, who is? The fear is he might be another one of those classic Korean war lord types that kept the Chinese up at nights for centuries.

Thanks W! Every time you turn around another one of his fuck ups pops up. Worst president ever!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. All the South Korean army would have to do

would be to set up mess tents near the border, with loudspeakers offering a good meal to anyone who surrenders. If any soldiers surrender, feed them for a few days, treat them well, and then take them on a bus tour of prosperous, modern Seoul.

[ohio2007]

19. Norks know hunger.They are born into starvation and its the norm

Not like us and the need for a pizza fix at 11PM or we will die ;)

If a few Norks broke for the border,they would be shot by their comrades who pissed their pants out of fear of what "the dear leader" would do to THEM if they dared make "a run for the border".

They are so brainwashed, they wouldn't consider doing something 'the dear leader' would frown upon


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4fcf1a24b7

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. But the smell of food cooking might be irresistible

and I wonder how effective the brainwashing of the North Korean soldiers would be if they realized that the Southerners, contrary to what they've been told all their lives, live better than they do.

[Rage for Order]

22. So what? Not our problem

Pull our troops out of South Korea and stop meddling in everyone's business. Let N and S Korea figure it out themselves

[Clindemuth]

26. North Korea can't support an expedition south.

Can't feed their troops. Can't fill their fuel tanks. Can't replace the first clip of bullets with a second. The country is a shadow, and South Korea, without U.S. help, could annihilate the North. We don't have troops there to prevent N. Korea from marching south. We're there because China is next door.

[Juche]

29. North Korea is complex

On one hand it is the most human rights unfriendly and one of the poorest (probably the poorest) nation on earth. So they can't sustain any serious incursions into the south. Once northern troops find out how much better life is in the south they may stop fighting. And the north doesn't have enough food or fuel to sustain any conflict. Supposedly in the last 15 years with the famine and the influx of VHS and mobile phones, alot of North Koreans have woken up and realized that the propaganda is all false and that N Korea is a dirt poor dictatorship, which flies in the face of contemporary images of North Koreans as mindless automatons willing to die for dear leader. I really don't know. The country is messed up on so many levels. I have read the public are starting to realize the propaganda is all lies, and the military would be destroyed pretty fast in an all out war, but they stil have other weapons to use.

The north does have alot of artillery pointed at Seoul, which they can load with chemical & biological weapons. They could kill millions and do trillions in property damage.

Also the north has a massive special forces organization designed to go into the south and commit terrorism and assassinations.

So the north would lose in a week in an all out war, but their artillery and special forces could still do alot of damage. But evenso, the north has to understand that their leaders will all be dead or arrested within a month or so of the start of the conflict.