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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:46 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday January 15
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday January 15, 2009

DAYS REMAINING UNTIL BUSH IS GONE = 4.5

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200

In recognition of those who predicted the Dow's precipitous return on Bush values (9/29/08): JuneBourder and AnneD

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON January 14, 2009

Dow... 8,200.14 -248.42 (-2.94%)
Nasdaq... 1,489.64 -56.82 (-3.67%)
S&P 500... 842.62 -29.17 (-3.35%)
Gold future... 808.80 -11.90 (-1.45%)
30-Year Bond 2.90% -0.12 (-4.04%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.21% -0.08 (-3.66%)




U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
NASDAQ FUTURES..............................................S&P FUTURES


Market Conditions During Trading Hours





GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver












Read more: du
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Debt: 01/13/2009 10,613,904,888,048.13 (UP 4,114,207,039.69) (Mostly FICA.)
(Little movement lately, except for FICA stuff. Good good morning to all.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,289,189,388,739.05 + 4,324,715,499,309.08
DOWN 38,769,243.84 + UP 4,152,976,283.53

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 300-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.33 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: THEIR SHARE IS TEN BUCKS in a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is a federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)
(I hate those end to end dollars to the moon and back, or years to spend $100/second. Just say'n)
If you read this and have a suggestion or comment, good or bad, I'd love to see it.

ANALYSIS:
There were 21 reports in the last 30 to 32 days.
The average for the last 21 reports is 801,721,434.33.
The average for the last 30 days would be 561,205,004.03.
The average for the last 32 days would be 526,129,691.28.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 71 reports in 105 days of FY2009 averaging 8.30B$ per report, 5.61B$/day.

PROJECTION:
GWB** must relinquish the presidency in 7 days.
By that time the debt could be between 10.6 and 10.7T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/13/2009 10,613,904,888,048.10 GWB (UP 4,885,709,091,866.53 so far since Bush took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 589,179,991,135.70 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
12/22/2008 -000,588,542,244.94 --- Mon
12/23/2008 +000,074,940,615.00 ------------*******
12/24/2008 -000,121,597,338.38 ---
12/26/2008 -036,328,594,643.92 -
12/29/2008 -000,737,189,520.41 --- Mon
12/30/2008 +000,055,730,362.68 ------------*******
12/31/2008 +046,553,280,763.13 ------------**********
01/02/2009 -049,252,670,832.20 -
01/05/2009 -000,912,747,082.07 --- Mon
01/06/2009 -000,344,326,906.71 ---
01/07/2009 -000,314,429,077.84 ---
01/08/2009 -027,599,431,464.26 -
01/09/2009 -000,568,123,287.98 ---
01/12/2009 -001,098,982,842.59 -- Mon
01/13/2009 -000,038,769,243.84 ----

-71,221,452,744.33 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $949,273,084,789.06 in last 117 days.
That's 949B$ in 117 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 93% of that highest year ever only in 117 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 117 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3689085&mesg_id=3689647
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Market WrapUp
Economic Alphabet Soup: Is it a “V,” “U,” “L,” or a “W?”
BY CHRIS PUPLAVA


Last week’s employment report confirmed the great deterioration in the economy with the loss of more than a half million jobs in the month of December alone, along with the job losses in October and November being revised lower an additional 154,000. Job losses are only part of the story as those who are working part time not by choice reached more than 15 million, an all-time high.

-chart-

While reaching an all-time high in absolute numbers, the part-time employment rate (or part time unemployment rate) reached north of 11%, worse than the 2001 recession though still below earlier recessions. This number is likely to rise for the next twelve months so taking out prior peaks in the part time employment rate is quite conceivable in the months ahead.

.....

The experience earlier this decade was similar to the early 1980s experience. The official recession ended late in 2001 and was more of a “U-type” recovery though by the middle of the following year the economy was beginning to decelerate again, with the number of states showing increasing activity slipping from roughly 35 to nearly 20. In early 2003 the economy picked up with the number of states showing increasing activity displaying a “V-type” recovery.

So how do things look like currently? So far it appears as though we are having an “L-type” stabilization as the number of states showing increasing activity reached an all-time low of only six states in May 2008 before the economic stimulus led to a small rebound which tapered off as 2008 wore on. Interestingly enough, the sharp correction in the markets in the final quarter of the year was playing catch up to economic reality as media pundits were in denial that the U.S. was in a recession until it was blatantly obvious to both the bears AND the bulls alike.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. I'm Thinking "Pancake"
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 06:21 AM by Demeter
for the forseeable future...or maybe I mean "bottomless pit"
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Yeah. We don't have a letter in our alphabet that looks like.. . .
\
 \
  \
   \



Get the picture?



Tansy Gold
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Morning, Tansy! 5 More Days!
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. That's it. I said t a while ago:
Backslash \
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. Exactly.
And it's gonna continue to look like that until these WS maroons and their enablers/beneficiaries in DC get their heads out of their assholes and get a grasp on the reality of how a healthy economy operates. A REAL one, not a theoretical one. A REAL one that takes into consideration all the strengths and weaknesses, needs and desires, frailties and foibles of the human species. They ain't there yet. They ain't even close.

Let me reveal one of Tansy's deep dark secrets. Back in the day, I decided to try out for Jeopardy! I contacted the show and was given an appointment. I flew over to LA one Tuesday morning and took all the little tests -- the quickie quiz, the interview, the mock competition. Each time, the pool got smaller and smaller, until there were only about 20 of us left out of several hundred. A couple days later I got a call from Kelly Carpenter that I was scheduled for taping. Out of the hundreds of thousands of people who tried out for Jeopardy! in that year, I ended up being one of only about 300 who actually ended up on stage with Alex Trebek.

In that sense, I was in more elite company than the 535 legislators who have the power to revive -- or euthanize -- our economy.

But at the end of the day, whether I won or lost on a tv game show, I'm still just a human being. And the buffoons on Capitol Hill need to understand that they aren't so special either. They don't have superhuman powers. They aren't particularly brighter than the average bear. They still belch and fart and get runny noses and age like the rest of us. They need to be brought back to reality, and I sometimes wonder if all the hype, all the excitement, all the hoopla surrounding next Tuesday's events won't continue to mask the very painful and ugly reality we need to deal with NOW. Immediately.

Each day we wait may mean two more or ten more in the hell that's to come.

The answer is "Tomorrow."

I think we all know what the question is.




Tansy Gold
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. "They don't have superhuman powers" -- but they do have gold-plated health plans, retirement, and
jobs after they leave Congress. They live in a different world.

Yes, they need to be brought back to reality, but they make the rules.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #38
57. On that note, I have to recommend Max Keiser & Co. on the BBC!
http://karmabanqueradio.com/

(Full show is 2nd video down). :smoke:
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
70. I am a fan of Jeopardy
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 12:08 PM by DemReadingDU
Maybe I saw you!


Congratulations, I admire everyone who makes it to Jeopardy!




:applause:
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bank of America May Receive U.S. Aid for Merrill Lynch Purchase
Jan. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp., the biggest U.S. bank by assets, may get more aid from the government to help absorb losses tied to this month’s acquisition of Merrill Lynch & Co., three people familiar with the matter said.

Details are likely to be disclosed on Jan. 20, the people said. That’s when Bank of America may post its first quarterly loss in 17 years as it digests the purchases of Merrill Lynch and Countrywide Financial Corp. The combined company has already received $25 billion from the U.S.

Bank of America, based in Charlotte, North Carolina, told regulators in December the takeover might be abandoned because of Merrill’s worse-than-expected results, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are private. The government insisted the transaction go forward because its collapse would create new turmoil in the financial system, they said.

“Bank of America has all kinds of problems with its acquisitions,” said Gary Townsend, president of Hill-Townsend Capital LLC in Chevy Chase, Maryland. “They’ve been so acquisitive, they find themselves with very little in tangible equity.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aei_22INcQaI&refer=home
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Madoff Scheme Was ‘Impossible’ to Do Alone, Says EIM’s Busson
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 06:09 AM by Demeter
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aodwWsCGHTFQ

By Tom Cahill and Stephanie Baker

Dec. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme, which might have cost investors $50 billion, couldn’t have been carried out alone, said Arpad ‘Arki’ Busson, chairman and founder of Swiss investment firm EIM SA.

“For the amount of money and number of accounts, it’s practically impossible that he was doing this alone,” said Busson, whose $11.5 billion fund of hedge funds had about $230 million invested with Madoff. “What’s mind-boggling is the amount of assets and the amount of time he was doing it.”

EIM, which manages accounts for mostly institutional clients, invested with funds that had managed accounts overseen by Madoff. EIM will likely write down its stake to zero, Busson said. Madoff was arrested Dec. 11 after he told his sons that Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC was a fraud, according to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

“There’s only so much due diligence you can do, and in hindsight you always wish you could have done it differently,” Busson said in a telephone interview. “Catching a fraud like this is practically impossible. He seemed like a very experienced, knowledgeable and trustworthy man, like the best con artists always are.”

About two-thirds of EIM accounts had no holdings with Madoff, while no single account had more than 5 percent, Busson said. EIM, based in Nyon, Switzerland, gained comfort with Madoff because one of the feeder funds produced a statement of accounts that showed “every trade” and that was audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers, Busson said.

Not From ‘Boondocks’

Madoff’s history showed he was “not someone from the boondocks,” Busson said. Madoff had been head of the trading committee at the Securities Industry Association, Wall Street’s biggest trade group, and served as chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market, advising on new stock-market rules in response to the growth of electronic trading.

Unlike most hedge funds, Madoff’s business was regulated by the SEC, giving investors an added layer of protection, Busson said.

“I knew the SEC was all over this shop. As a broker-dealer, you file quarterly statements,” he said. “The main reason we got comfort is that it was SEC-regulated, and it was doing 10 percent of the volume on the New York Stock Exchange and Nasdaq.”

Madoff ran his investment advisory business from a separate floor of his firm’s New York offices, keeping financial statements “under lock and key,” prosecutors said. Early in December, he told one employee that clients wanted to redeem about $7 billion and that he was struggling to free up the funds, the government said.
.....

The complexity and duration of the fraud made it unlikely that he could have operated it alone, particularly because Madoff took vacations....

THAT'S THE FIRST RULE FOR THE OFFICE EMBEZZLING ACCOUNTANT---NEVER TAKE A VACATION!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. If the former chairman of Nasdaq is a crook, Who Can You Trust in America?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081229/howl3?rel=rightsideaccordian



Madoff's fall has planted the seeds of suspicion. We now doubt those we have done business with for years. The presumption of trust is gone.

By Nicholas von Hoffman

The news of Bernard Madoff's $50 billion fraud has hit the investor/401(k) class as nothing else -- not the fall of Lehman Brothers, not the death of Bear Stearns, nor the string of insolvency announcements of one household name after another. Madoff is the blow that did it.

Lesser explosions connected with Madoff are expected. His story that for decades he ran his gigantic fraud by himself is unbelievable. One man alone could not have done the work of inventing and cranking out thousands of statements every month, not to mention keeping track of the comings and goings of billions of dollars. Madoff has confederates.

That Madoff took some of the members of the centimillionaire club to the cleaners is not what caused the shock. It is the damage done to so many smaller investor/savers, so many pension funds, so many charities. You do not have to be one of Madoff's victims to be affected. Madoff, his own businesses aside, was a major figure in the world of investments, of stocks and bonds and securities and exchanges. If the former chairman of Nasdaq is a crook, whom do you trust?

Madoff has sown the seeds of suspicion everywhere. He has caused us to doubt men and women with whom we have done business with for years. There is no way of knowing if someone is a con artist. The presumption of trust is gone.

Business depends on trust, trust of all kinds. Trust that when you place an order with a broker he or she will get you the best price, trust that your investment or retirement adviser is not getting an under-the-table kickback to put your old age money into a shoddy annuity.

Trust is the indispensable element in all businesses. Contractors depend on subcontractors to get the job done when they say they will; retailers depend on distributors to deliver on time; lawyers are trusted to meet filing deadlines, steel fabricators are expected to get gigantic trusses to the building site exactly when they are needed. Doctors are expected to put patients' interests above money considerations; parts manufacturers are relied on to deliver on time to the factory. Business runs on trust, and Bernard Madoff has busted it.

So the Wall Street Journal says to its readers, "Could your investment manager be another Bernard Madoff?... if someone like Mr. Madoff can be accused of running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme, can investors anywhere sleep easy? Ordinarily, when you are picking an investment manager or financial planner, you're given some common-sense advice. Avoid managers who are unknown, or unregulated, or come without good referrals, or haven't been in the industry long. But none of this would have saved you from Mr. Madoff. 'This guy had oodles of referrals, at the highest levels,' notes Duane Thompson, a managing director at the Financial Planning Association in Washington. 'He was chairman of Nasdaq. He'd been in business since 1960. "

Fear, confusion and mistrust have been amplified by the absence of government supervision, regulation or policing. The Securities and Exchange Commission admits it did not do its job.

With the closing down of the old-time pension system, millions of employees were forced into 401(k)s requiring knowledge of finance, bonds, stocks, weird-sounding investments and tax law. They have had to make investment decisions effecting their future with no government protection against misrepresentation, legal traps laid for them and the small print obfuscation financial institutions practice on their customers. The result is the heart-wrenching situation for millions who fear that they will be living out the last decades of their lives counting their food stamps and hunting for bargains in the used clothing bins.

The Madoff swindle puts the spotlight on the collapse of the 401(k) retirement plan. The United States is the only advanced nation without a complete retirement system.

For 401(k)s to have worked, a bull market or at least a flat market was necessary. It was an unreliable gamble from the git-go, an arrangement that would fall to pieces when next the market crashed.

Madoff and the crash underline the powerlessness of the millions. As a matter of principle, the Republicans defended the unregulated lawlessness that enabled a Madoff to run his swindles. As for the Democrats, sometime in the Clinton era they sold their party to Wall Street and now they have Chuck Schumer to make sure it stays sold.

It remains for President-elect Obama to void the deal and break his party free to help those who have nowhere else to look.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
6.  Bernard Madoff: Wall Street Swindler Strikes Powerful Blows for Social Justice By James Petras
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21507.htm

“We never thought he would do this to us, he was one of our people”, member of Palm Beach Country Club.

Wall Street broker Bernard (‘Bernie’) Madoff, former president of NASDAQ, revered and respected investor confessed to pulling off the biggest fraud in history, a $50 billion dollar scam. Bernie was known for his generous philanthropy, especially to Zionist, Jewish and Israeli causes. A one time life-guard on Long Island in the 1960’s, Bernie launched his financial career by raising money from colleagues, friends and relatives among wealthier Jews in the Long Island suburbs, Palm Beach, Florida and in Manhattan, promising a modest, steady and secure return of between 10 to 12%, covering any withdrawals in typical Ponzi fashion by drawing on funds from new investors who literally pleaded for Bernie to fleece them. Madoff personally managed at least $17 billion dollars. For almost four decades he built up a clientele, which came to include some of the biggest banks and investment houses in Scotland, Spain, England and France; as well as major hedge funds in the United States. Madoff drew almost all of the funds from high net-worth private clients who were recruited by brokers working on commission. Bernie’s clients included many multi-millionaires and billionaires from Switzerland, Israel and elsewhere, as well as the US’s largest hedge funds (RMF Division of the Man Group and the Tremont). Many of the swindled super-rich clients forced their money on Madoff, who sternly imposed rigorous conditions on potential clients: He insisted they have recommendations from existing investors, deposit a substantial amount and guarantee their own solvency. Most considered themselves lucky to have their funds taken by the highly respected Wall Street…swindler. Madoff’s standard message was that the fund was closed…but because they came from the same world (board members of Jewish charities, pro-Israel fund raising organizations or the ‘right’ country clubs) or were related to a friend, colleague or existing clients, he would take their money.

Madoff set up advisory councils with distinguished members, contributed heavily to museums, hospitals and upscale cultural organizations. He was a prominent member of exclusive country clubs in Palm Beach and Long Island. His reputation was enhanced by his funds record of never having a losing year – a big selling point in luring millionaire investors. Madoff shared with his super-rich clients (Jews and Gentiles) a common upper class life style, and mix of cultural philanthropy with low key financial profiteering. Madoff ‘played’ his colleagues with a soft-spoken, but authoritative, appearance of ‘expertise’, covered by a veneer of upper class collegiality, deep commitment to Zionism and long-term friendships.

Bernie’s mega-fund shared many signs with recent high level scams: The constant high returns, unmatched by any other broker; a lack of third party oversight; a backroom accounting firm physically incapable of auditing the multi-billion dollar operation; a broker-dealer operation directly under his thumb and the total obfuscation of what he was actually investing in. The obvious similarity of signs with other fraudsters were overlooked by the rich and famous, the sophisticated investors and high paid consultants, the Harvard MBA’s and the entire army of regulators from the Security and Exchange Commissions (SEC) because they were totally embedded in the corrupt culture of ‘take the money and run’ and ‘if you’re making it, don’t ask questions’. The reputation of the superior wisdom of a seemingly successful Jewish Wall Streeter fed into the self-delusions of the wealthy and the stereotypes held by millionaire Gentiles.

The Big Swindle

Madoff’s investment fund only dealt with a limited clientele of multi-millionaire and billionaires who kept their funds in for the long haul; the occasional withdrawal were limited in amount and were easily covered by soliciting new funds from new investors fighting to have access to Madoff’s money management. The long-term big investors looked toward passing their investments to their kin or eventual retirement. The wealthy lawyers, dentists, surgeons, distinguished Ivy league professors and others who might need to draw from their funds for an occasional fancy wedding or celebrity-studded bar-mitzvah, could draw from their funds because Madoff had no problem covering the withdrawal by attracting funds from rich owners of sweat shop garment factories, dangerous meat packing outfits and slumlords. Madoff was no Robin Hood, his philanthropic and charity contributions facilitated access to the rich and wealthy who served on the boards of the recipient institutions and proved that he was ‘one of them’ a kind of super-rich ‘intimate’ of the same elite class. The shock, awe and heart attacks that followed Madoff’s confession that he was ‘running a Ponzi scheme’ drew as much anger for the money lost and the fall from the moneyed class as for the embarrassment of knowing that the world’s biggest exploiters and smartest swindlers on Wall Street, were completely ‘taken’ by one of their own. Not only did they suffer big losses but their self-image of themselves as rich because they are so smart and of ‘superior stock’ was utterly shattered: They saw themselves as suffering the same fate as all the schmucks they had previously swindled, exploited and dispossessed in their climb to the top. There is nothing worse for the ego of a respectable swindler than to be trumped by a bigger swindler. As a result, a number of the biggest losers have so far refused to give their names or the amount they lost, working instead through lawyers fighting off other losers.

The Positive Side of Madoff’s Mega-Swindle (The Inadvertent Hand of Justice)

While it is understandable that the super-rich and wealthy, who have lost a large portion of their retirement and investment funds are unanimous in their condemnation and cries of betrayal of trust, and the editorials of all the prestigious newspapers and weeklies have joined the chorus of moral critics, there is much to praise in Madoff’s deeds, even if such praise was not at the heart of his fraudulent endeavor.

It is worthwhile to list the inadvertent positive outcomes of Madoff’s mega-swindle. First of all the swindle of $50 plus billion dollars may make a big dent on US Zionist funding of illegal Israeli colonial settlements in the Occupied Territories, lessen funding for AIPAC’s purchase of Congressional influence and financing of propaganda campaigns in favor of a pre-emptive US military attack against Iran. Most investors will have to lower or eliminate their purchase of Israel bonds, which subsidize the Jewish State’s military budget.

Secondly, the swindle has further discredited the highly speculative hedge funds already reeling from massive withdrawals because of deep losses. Madoff’s funds were one of the last ‘respected’ operations still drawing new investors, but with the latest revelations it may accelerate their demise. The dismissed promoters may finally have to perform an honest, productive day’s work.

Thirdly, Madoff’s long-term, large-scale fraud was not detected by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) despite its claims of at least two investigations. As a result, there is a total loss of credibility. More generally, the SEC’s failure demonstrates the incapacity of capitalist government regulatory agencies to detect mega frauds. This failure raises the question of whether alternatives to investing in Wall Street are better suited to protect savings and pension funds.

Fourthly, Madoff’s long-term association with NASDAQ, including his chairmanship, while he was defrauding his clients of billions, strongly suggests that the members and leaders of this stock exchange are incapable of recognizing a crook, and are prone to overlook felonious behavior of ‘one of their own’. In other words, the investing public can no longer look to holders of high posts in NASDAQ as a sign of probity. After Madoff it may signal time to look for a king-size mattress for safe keeping of what remains of a family’s wealth.

The fifth point is that the investment advisors from top banks in Europe, Asia and the US managing billions of funds did not carry out the most elementary due diligence of Madoff’s operation. Apart from severe bank losses, tens of thousands of influential, affluent and super-rich lost their entire accumulated wealth. The result is total loss of confidence in the leading banks and financial instruments as well as the general discrediting of ‘expert knowledge’. The result is a weakening of the financial stranglehold over investor behavior and the demise of an important sector of the parasitic ‘rentier’ class, which gains without producing any useful commodities or providing needed services.

The sixth point is that since most of the money stolen by Madoff came from the upper classes around the world, his behavior has reduced inequalities – he is the ‘greatest leveler’ since the introduction of the progressive income tax. By ruining billionaires and bankrupting millionaires, Madoff has lessened their capacity to use their wealth to influence politicians in their favor – thus increasing the potential political influence of the less affluent sectors of class society…and inadvertently strengthening democracy against the financial oligarchs.

A seventh point can be made that by swindling life-long friends, self-same ethno-religious investors, narrow ethnically defined country club members and close family members, Madoff demonstrates that finance capital shows no respect for any of the pieties of everyday life: Great and small, holy and profane, all are subordinated to the rule of capital.

Eighth, among the many ruined investors in New York and New England, there are a number of mega slumlords (real estate moguls), sweatshop owners (fancy name-brand clothes and toy manufacturers) and others who barely paid the minimum wage to their women and immigrant laborers, evicted poor tenants and swindled employees out of their pensions before moving their operations to China. In other words, Madoff’s swindle was a kind of secular ‘divine’ retribution for past and present crimes against labor and the poor. Needless to say, this ‘unconscious Robin Hood’ did not redistribute the money fleeced from the employers to their workers, he reinvested part of it in charities which enhanced his philanthropic image and to payout to some of his early investors so sustain the overall Ponzi scam.

Point number nine is that Madoff struck a severe blow against anti-Semites who claim that there is a ‘close-knit Jewish conspiracy to defraud the Gentiles’, laying that canard to rest once and for all. Among Bernard Madoff’s principle victims were his closest Jewish friends and colleagues, people who shared Seder meals and frequented the same upscale temples in Long Island and Palm Beach.

Bernie was discriminating in accepting clients, but it was on the basis of their wealth and not their national origin, race, religion or sexual preference. He was very ecumenical and a strong backer of globalization. There was nothing ethnocentric about Madoff: He defrauded the Anglo-Chinese bank HSBC of $1 billion dollars and several billions from the Dutch arm of the Belgian bank Fortes. $1.4 billion was from the Royal Bank of Scotland, the French bank BNP Paribas, the Spanish bank, Banco Santander, the Japanese Nomura; not to mention hedge funds in London and the US, which have admitted holdings in Bernard Madoff Investment Securities. Indeed Bernie was emblematic of the modern up-to-date, politically correct, multicultural, international…swindler. The ease with which the super rich of Europe forked their fortunes over caused one Madrid-based business consultant to observe that, “picking off Spain’s wealthiest was like clubbing seals…” (Financial Times, December 18, 2008 p.16)

The tenth point is that Madoff’s swindle will likely promote greater self-criticism and a more distrustful attitude toward other potential confidence people posing as reliable financial know-it-alls. Among self-critical Jews, they are less likely to confide in brokers simply because they are zealous backers of Israel and generous contributors to Zionist fund drives. That is no longer an adequate guarantee of ethical behavior and a certificate of good conduct. In fact it may raise suspicion of brokers who are excessively ardent boosters of Israel and promise consistent high returns to local Zionist affiliates – asking themselves whether this business about ‘what is good for the …’ is really a cover for another scam.

The final and 11th point is the demise of Madoff’s enterprise and his wealthy liberal Jewish victims will adversely affect contributions to the 52 Major Jewish American Organizations, numerous foundations in Boston, Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere, as well as the Clinton/Schumer militarist wing of the Democratic Party (Madoff bankrolled both of them as well as other unconditional Congressional supporters of Israel). This may open Congress to greater debate on Middle East policy without the usual high volume attacks.

Conclusion

Madoff’s swindle and fraudulent behavior is not the result of a personal moral failure. It is the product of a systemic imperative and the economic culture, which informs the highest circles of our class structure. The paper economy, hedge funds and all the ‘sophisticated financial instruments’ are all ‘Ponzi schemes’ – they are not based on producing and selling goods and services. They are financial bets on future financial paper growth based on securing future buyers to pay off earlier cash ins.

The ‘failure’ of the SEC is totally predictable and systemic: The regulators are selected from the regulatees, are beholden to them and defer to their judgments, claims and audit sheets. They are structured to ‘miss the signs’ and to avoid ‘over-regulating’ their financial superiors. Madoff operated in a milieu of a Wall Street where everything goes, where impunity for mega-bailouts for mega swindlers is the norm. As an individual swindler, he out-defrauded some of his bigger institutional competitors on the Street. The whole system of rewards and prestige goes to those best able to juggle the books, to cover the paper trails and who have willing victims begging to get fleeced. What a mensch, this Madoff!

In a few days, one individual, Bernard Madoff, has struck a bigger blow against global financial capital, Wall Street and the US Zionist Lobby/Israel-First Agenda than the entire US and European left combined over the past half century! He has been more successful in reducing vast wealth disparities in New York than all the white, black, Christian and Jewish, reform and mainline Democratic and Republican governors and Mayors over the past two centuries.

Some right-wing conspiracy theorists are claiming that Bernie is a secret Islamic-Palestinian agent (from Hamas) who set out to deliberately undermine the financial base of the Jewish State of Israel and its most powerful, affluent and generous US backers and foundations. Others claim that he is a closet Marxist whose swindles were carefully designed to discredit Wall Street and to funnel billions into clandestine radical organizations – after all… does anyone know where the lost billions have gone? Unlike the leftist pundits, bloggers and protest marchers, whose earnest and public activities have had no effect on the rich and powerful, Madoff has aimed his blows where it hurts the most: Their mega-bank accounts, their confidence in the capitalist system, their self-esteem and, yes, even their cardiac well-being.

Does that mean we on the left should form a Bernie Madoff Defense Committee and call for a bailout in line with Paulson’s bailout of his Citibank cronies? Should we proclaim “Equal bailout for equal swindlers!”? Should we advocate his flight (or his right of return) to Israel to avoid a trial? It might not fly with his many Jewish victims to make the case for an Israeli retirement for Bernie.

There is no reason to mount the barricades for Bernard Madoff. It’s enough to recognize that he has inadvertently rendered an historic service to popular justice by undermining some of the financial props of a class-ridden injustice system.

Postscript

Was it out of sheer admiration or because of some covert linkages with Madoff that our current Attorney General Michael Mukasey is removing himself from the investigation? Others of equal importance and influence are most certainly tied in the Madoff Affair, and not just the ‘victims’. We are facing a serious case of matters of State … No one can believe that a single person could by himself pull off a scam of this size and duration. Nor can any serious investigator believe that $50 billion dollars has simply ‘disappeared’ or been squirreled into personal accounts.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
74. If there is a flower...
that blooms from this Madoff shit pile-it is that the wealthy got taken-but sadly, so did charity trusts.

The rain falls on the just and unjust.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
111. Deleted by self.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 08:13 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
84. Exactly the point, scapegoating Madoff is way to limiting in its scope
It's an entire culture of corruption, look at the Justice Dept for example. The criminal repuke hiring people there hired 65 people, 63 of whom were psychotic repuke criminals who bought Bradley Schlozman's "libs are commies" bullshit.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/851672.html

---...Bradley Schlozman privately dubbed liberal department lawyers "commies" and "pinkos" and told a subordinate that the Civil Rights Division shouldn't be limited to hiring "politburo members" who belong to some "psychopathic left-wing organization designed to overthrow the government," the department's inspector general and Office of Professional Responsibility found.---
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
53. "..it was doing 10 percent of the volume on the New York Stock Exchange and Nasdaq.”
Whoa! I hadn't heard that.
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
85. Take a look at the S&P over the last 3 years, somedays it goes straight up
No pullbacks, no retracements, no selling: just straight up with a few pauses. On days like that, frauds are responsible for about 90% of trading.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
73. I call BULL SHIT !!!!!!!!!!

“There’s only so much due diligence you can do, and in hindsight you always wish you could have done it differently,” Busson said in a telephone interview. “Catching a fraud like this is practically impossible. He seemed like a very experienced, knowledgeable and trustworthy man, like the best con artists always are.”

Pure unadulterated Bull Shit. If they had done ANY due diligence-we wouldn't be in this predicament now. SEC didn't investigate the reported red flags. He was not alone-the foxes are guarding the hen house and have been for some time.

You know that commercial I think it is the H&R where everyone doesn't have hair at the top of their head 'cause they don't have people.....I am about to sport a male pattern boldness do. I don't have people unlike Madoff did. All you SWT folks sporting a chrome dome.....let me see you flash 'em.

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Yes. Sounds like this guy was just relying on him being
"...a very experienced, knowledgeable and trustworthy man... not from the Boondocks."

Big mistake.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
7.  Bush/GOP RECESSION or Bush/GOP DEPRESSION?
Definitions gleaned from Wikipedia:

In economics, the term recession generally describes the reduction of a country's gross domestic product (GDP) for at least two quarters, a fall in GDP of 10 per cent or more before a recession would be referred to as a depression.

In economics, a depression is a sustained, long downturn in one or more economies. It is more severe than a recession, which is seen as a normal downturn in the business cycle.

Considered a rare but extreme form of recession, a depression is characterized by abnormal increases in unemployment, restriction of credit, shrinking output and investment, numerous bankruptcies, reduced amounts of trade and commerce, as well as highly volatile relative currency value fluctuations, mostly devaluations. Price deflation or hyperinflation are also common elements of a depression.

regarding the GDP: US trade deficit drops 27% on plunging global trade
jan 15, 2009 - AFP
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US trade deficit fell a hefty 28.7 percent in November to the lowest level in five years but the improvement comes amid a sharp contraction in global commerce, government data showed Tuesday.

The 40.4 billion dollar deficit in international trade in goods and services in the penultimate month of 2008 was much lower than the 51 billion dollars forecast by analysts, and followed a revised 56.7 billion dollars chalked up in October.

While the deficit decline is a positive for statistical measures of the US economy, it underscored the global slump stemming from financial turmoil triggered by the US home mortgage crisis, analysts said.

"The key message from this report is bad news -- It shows both export and import volumes contracting sharply as the global economy tumbles into recession," said IHS Global Insight chief US economist Nigel Gault.

The narrowing November trade gap resulted from exports of 142.8 billion dollars and imports of 183.2 billion dollars, with contraction in both exports and imports, the Commerce Department said.

The trade deficit was "the lowest since November 2003," it said.

-----


We've been in a recession for a little more than a year before it has been offically called a recession. While I understand general public panic should this be officially called a DEPRESSION - the signs are there.

What do you think? Recession or Depression?



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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. In Michigan, It's Been a Depression for Quite a While Now
Other states got more govt. money to wallpaper over the cracks...
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. It took so long to call this a recession,

Now that it is officially a recession, it indicates to me that we are actually in a depression. By the time it's officially called a depression, they'll start a big war to stop the depression.

:shrug:
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
76. A big fat Gold Star for you, DemR-DU.
Now that you recognize the wheel is spinning constantly, the next step is to ride it from the center; viewing the unfolding replay of history with calm detachment. From there it's one short step to enlightenment.

See how easy that is?

Greetings to all. Hope you are well.


TD
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. Om
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 02:14 PM by Ghost Dog
:)

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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #86
101. Nice mandela....
Tibetian?
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. Tibetan Great Wheel, I believe, yes.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 06:31 PM by Ghost Dog
Mandala. :)

http://www.geocities.com/directx_user/gallery/rebirth_wheel.htm

Click and click again on image at site to see larger.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. Investors hammered by Citi fund setback
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b87aa880-e269-11dd-b1dd-0000779fd2ac.html

By Henny Sender in New York


Citigroup’s Corporate Special Opportunities hedge fund is returning only 3 cents on the dollar to investors, underscoring the depths of the difficulties at the alternative investment unit once headed by the bank’s current chief executive, Vikram Pandit.

The amount being returned is less than had been expected when the company decided to wind up the fund last year and came as bruising news for investors who had been prevented from withdrawing their money since January 2008.

Citigroup also stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars it lent to CSO. It provided the fund with as much as $450m in credit lines and $320m in equity, while also placing assets with a nominal value of $1bn that it had bought in the fund.

Without the support from Citigroup, the hedge fund, which invested in corporate debt, would have had negative equity, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.

“Every fund that invested in bank loans in Europe and used leverage did not survive,” a Citi spokesperson says. “At least we are giving investors cash.”

Some debt funds have told investors who want to withdraw their money that they will receive slices of debt in the hedge fund portfolio rather than cash. While such actions are allowed under fund documents, few investors have the capability to deal with such securities...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. This Is Why 30-Year-Olds Should Not Be Promoted to Vice-Presidents
Blackstone staffer charged with insider trading

By Henny Sender in New York


A staffer in Blackstone’s financial advisory group was charged by the Securities & Exchange Commission with insider trading in connection with the 2006 acquisition of supermarket chain Albertson’s by a group including Cerberus Capital, Supervalu and CVS.

Ramesh Chakrapani, then a 30-year-old vice-president, is alleged to have helped his parents and friends make $3.6m on information he was privy to while working in Blackstone’s London office, according to the suit filed in US District Court in New York.

I CUT OUT THE PREPOSTEROUS BLATHER--GO TO LINK, IT'S VERY ENTERTAINING...

Allegations of insider trading have recently involved public relations and accounting firms as well as investment banks.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. Here's the link

1/15/09 Blackstone staffer charged with insider trading
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1c807f04-e296-11dd-b1dd-0000779fd2ac.html


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
89. Oops! Missed One. Thanks for the Backup, DemReadingDU!
you're a peach!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. Today's Reports
08:30 Core PPI Dec
Briefing.com 0.1%
Consensus 0.1%
Prior 0.1%

08:30 PPI Dec
Briefing.com -1.7%
Consensus -1.9%
Prior -2.2%

08:30 Initial Claims 01/10
Briefing.com NA
Consensus 501K
Prior 467K

08:30 Empire Manufacturing Index Jan
Briefing.com NA
Consensus -25.00
Prior -25.76

10:00 Philadelphia Fed Jan
Briefing.com -35.0
Consensus -35.0
Prior -32.9

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. Initial Claims @ 524,000 - last wk rev'd up 3,000
27. U.S. weekly initial jobless claims rise 54,000 to 524,000
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

28. U.S. 4-week average claims down 8,000 to 518,500
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

29. U.S. continuing jobless claims fall 115,000 to 4.5 million
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

30. U.S. 4-week avg continuing claims up 27,500 to 4.5 million
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. New jobless claims up more than expected
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090115/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_jobless

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The number of workers filing new claims for unemployment benefits rebounded last week after a brief holiday-induced slowdown, government data showed on Thursday, suggesting that the year-long recession was deepening.

Initial claims for state unemployment insurance benefits rose 54,000 to a seasonally adjusted 524,000 in the week ended January 10 from an upwardly revised 470,000 the prior week, the Labor Department said.

It was the highest reading for initial claims since the week ending December20, when new applications for unemployment aid were 589,000. A Labor Department official said seasonal adjustment factors anticipated this would be the highest week of year for unadjusted claims. Last week was the first of three weeks without a holiday.

Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast 500,000 new claims versus a previously reported figure of 467,000.

...more...


what? no eCONomists? now they're analcysts - how "surprising"!
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burf Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. I read an article
the other day on unemployment data. It said that in New York State 50,000 people as of this month have exhausted their unemployment benefits. This means that they get no more money, but also are no longer counted in the unemployment numbers. So I guess that means the data is more screwed up than most folks realize. Not to mention how it is affecting those poor souls who are not working.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
71. "...no longer counted in the unemployment numbers."
That is a common misconception. They most certainly are still counted as unemployed and show up in the U-3 unemployment figures.

Go here for further information ===> http://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#unemp
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. When I was unemployed for so long....
that was the hardest and most bitter pill to swallow. The knowledge that you are not counted as a human being is hard to accept. The good news-I got politically active from that day foreword, I never believed the employment stat from that day forward, and had an empathy for those down on their luck due to unemployment.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
107. If they used their last check to exercise their 2nd amendment rights
(bought a gun), they can always go into the crime business. Self-employment. Set their own hours. And if it turns out they're no good at knocking over convenience stores, they get free room and board paid for by the state, and they can make lots of new friends-with-benefits, and get lots of cool tattoos.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. U.S. PPI core up 4.3% in past 12 months
31. U.S. Dec. PPI down 1.9% vs -2.2% expected
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

32. U.S. Dec. core PPI up 0.2% vs. 0.0% expected
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

33. U.S. Dec. PPI energy prices down 9.3%
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

34. U.S. Dec. PPI food prices down 1.5%
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

35. U.S. PPI down 0.9% in past 12 months
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009

36. U.S. PPI core up 4.3% in past 12 months
8:30 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
55. Jan Philly Fed @ -24.3 -- December rev'd downward to -36.1
09. Jan. Philly Fed -24.3 vs. revised -36.1
10:04 AM ET, Jan 15, 2009
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. Oil up after falling to near $36 on weak US demand
Oil prices were up slightly Thursday after slumping to near $36 a barrel in a volatile market as rising crude inventories and falling retail sales in the U.S. provided investors with further evidence of faltering consumer demand.

By midday in Europe, light, sweet crude for February delivery was up 65 cents to $37.93 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Earlier in the session, the Nymex contract fell to $36.13 before rebounding.

The contract fell 50 cents overnight to settle at $37.28. Prices have fallen 27 percent since last week and analysts say they may test a five-year low reached last month of $33.87 a barrel.

....

U.S. oil inventories have been rising for months, proof the current recession is biting into demand for crude products. The Energy Department's Energy Information Administration said Wednesday that crude inventories grew by 1.2 million barrels for the week ended Friday after jumping 6.7 million barrels the previous week.

....

In other Nymex trading, gasoline futures rose 1.23 cents to $1.18 a gallon. Heating oil gained 2.29 cents to $1.486 a gallon while natural gas for February delivery was steady at $4.97 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices



I suspect that we will test eight-year lows in crude prices before 1/20/09.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. Good morning all.
:donut: :donut: :donut:

DU stopped working this morning for me (other sites were fine). Now time has caught up with me and I must get ready for school.

I'll try to check in at lunchtime. Otherwise - see you this afternoon.

ozy :hi:

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I Wondered If You Were All Right!
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 07:10 AM by Demeter
Have a good day, Ozy, and stay warm! It's all of -3.4F here, down from earlier this morning. :scared:

Can you believe that they won't close school until either temperature or windchill is -20F?

We have little kids walking!
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. But is that in the snow? Uphill? (both ways)
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. That's how I remember MY daily trek to school! n/t
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
102. Mine were a la Ralphie....
in A Christmas story. I felt like a deep sea diver. The good thing was that falls were no problem.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
41. They closed the schools here but leave the building open with a skeleton staff
most schools have someone there because some parents send their kids without checking.


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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. i hate to admit something like this
but in the evenings, and on the weekends, i apparently dress just like "retirement cheney". plaid pajamas, bunny slippers, and my black Mr. Rogers sweater.

i just had to share that with someone. it's like the cartoonist has been stalking me or something...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. On the Internet, It Doesn't Matter. We Forgive and Overlook All Sartorial Gaffes
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. a relevant point indeed.
but

i still somehow feel evil though...

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. Asian shares hit 6-week low
Thursday January 15, 2:54 am ET HONG KONG (Reuters) - Asian shares hit a six-week low on Thursday and safe-haven Japanese bond futures rose to their highest since Lehman Brothers collapsed in September as the U.S. banking crisis deepened, sparking fears of prolonged financial turmoil.

Bank of America Corp (NYSE:BAC - News) and Citigroup Inc (NYSE:C - News) shares plunged on Wednesday as investors questioned whether
...

"A continued flow of bad economic data is pointing to a steeper global recession and worsening concerns about corporate earnings," said Lee Sun-yeob, a market analyst at Goodmorning Shinhan Securities in Seoul.

"Increasingly bearish prospects for global banks' results are also pressuring sentiment."

The MSCI index of Asia-Pacific shares excluding Japan (^MIAPJ0000PUS - News) dropped 5.2 percent as of 0705 GMT (2:05 a.m. EST), heading for its biggest percentage daily fall since mid-November.

...

Japan's Nikkei average (Osaka:^N225 - News) dropped 4.9 percent, with Nissan Motor Co (Tokyo:7201.T - News) slipping 3.4 percent on news it will post an annual operating loss because of sliding sales and a soaring yen.

Benchmark stock markets in South Korea (KSE:^KS11 - News) dropped 6 percent, while Australia (ASX:^AXJO - News), Hong Kong (HKSE:^HSI - News) and Taiwan (Taiwan:^TWII - News) fell 4-5 percent each.

...

The benchmark 10-year JGB yield fell 5 basis points to 1.210 percent.

The yen, after initially dipping on the weak Japanese machinery data, recovered. Japan's currency tends to gain in volatile times as investors unwind trades in which they borrow the low-yielding yen to invest in riskier assets.

The dollar slipped 0.2 percent from late U.S. trade to 88.88 yen.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Europe stocks fall for 7th day in a row; banks sink
Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:48am EST PARIS, Jan 15 (Reuters) - European shares surrendered early gains and turned negative on Thursday morning, losing ground for the seventh session in a row as escalating fears over the beleaguered banking sector hit shares such as HSBC (HSBA.L).

Banks were among the biggest losers with Anglo Irish Bank (ANGL.I) down 16 percent, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA) down 6 percent and HSBC down 4.2 percent.

Deutsche Postbank (DPBGn.DE) fell 20 percent amid downbeat comments by analysts on revised terms of a deal under which Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) is buying a stake in Postbank from Deutsche Post (DPWGn.DE).

At 0935MT the FTSEurofirst 300 .FTEU3 index of top European shares was down 0.9 percent at 797.23 points.

...

"A lot of banks still need to recapitalise because asset valuations continue to spiral down. That, coupled with rising provisions for bad loans," said Sebastien Barthelemi, analyst at Louis Capital Markets.

"The problem is investors are getting fed up with all the capital increases, and in some cases like Lloyds and HBOS the capital hikes didn't go well and the government had to come to the rescue," he said.

"The European Central Bank's rate cut will certainly help the banks but it doesn't change the fact that they still need to raise capital."

...

Around Europe, UK's FTSE 100 index .FTSE was down 0.9 percent, Germany's DAX index .GDAXI down 1.1 percent, and France's CAC 40 .FCHI down 1.1 percent.

Shares in oil producers also slipped, as oil dropped to $36.82 a barrel. BP (BP.L) shed 0.8 percent and Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L) fell 0.4 percent.

Continental (CONG.DE) fell 19 percent on news that the automotive parts and tyre maker was considering a 1 billion euro ($1.31 billion) capital increase.

Among the very few stocks on the upside, mid-cap HMV Group (HMV.L) rose 5 percent after the music and books retailer late on Wednesday reported a 0.5 percent rise in underlying sales for the five weeks to Jan. 3 and agreed to buy 14 stores from the administrators of stricken rival Zavvi.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCALF7367920090115?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. ECB cuts rates by 50 basis points amidst economic woes
Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:12am EST FRANKFURT, Jan 15 (Reuters) - The European Central Bank cut its benchmark interest rate by 50 basis points to 2.0 percent on Thursday, matching its lowest-ever rate as inflation plummets and recession spreads.

The cut, in line with consensus forecasts, marks the fourth cut in just over three months amidst signs the financial crisis is biting hard into the real economy and inflation threatens to fall further below the ECB's 2 percent ceiling .

...

Economists said today's cut would not likely be the last, but the ECB might pause before the next move.

...

The euro fell to a 5-week low against the dollar after the decision <EUR=> and a 6-week low against the yen <EURJPY=R>, while Bund and Euribor futures rose.

Trichet is expected to justify the rate cut by pointing to the diminishing upside risks to inflation, which fell to 1.6 percent in December, and a contraction in domestic demand as well as tighter financing conditions.

The ECB also set new rates for its overnight facilities, after announcing in December it would increase the gap between these rates and the benchmark rate to back to 100 basis points.

From Jan. 21, funds borrowed from its marginal lending facility will attract an interest rate of 3.0 percent and overnight deposits will pay 1.0 percent.

INFLATION PRESSURE DOWN

Inflation in the euro zone has fallen rapidly in recent months and was 1.6 percent in December, compared with the ECB's goal of keeping inflation below, but close to 2 percent.

Economists expect inflation to fall further and some of them have warned of deflation danger, as falling prices could make already cautious consumers even more jittery and cut spending.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINLF50118520090115?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Euro rises as ECB leaves door open to more rate cuts
Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:03am EST NEW YORK, Jan 15 (Reuters) - The euro turned higher against the U.S. dollar on Thursday after the European Central Bank left the door wide open for more interest rate cuts that should further stimulate the economy.

The euro was trading at $1.3175 <EUR=>, up 0.1 percent, compared with $1.3110 before ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet began speaking at a press conference after the rate cut.

"It wasn't one thing, but the main piece the market in Europe was paying attention to was inflation in Europe, and he specifically said the inflation risk has diminished which gives scope for them to lower rates if needed," said Brian Taylor, head currency trader at M&T Bank in Buffalo, New York. "That has perked up the market a little bit."

/.. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1551075020090115?rpc=44
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
81. Europe shares close lower for 7th straight session
Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:51pm EST LONDON, Jan 15 (Reuters) - European equities slipped for a seventh straight session on Thursday as banking stocks struggled to find a floor following mounting sector losses, while energy shares retreated tracking a sharp decline in crude prices.

The FTSEurofirst 300 .FTEU3 index of top European shares ended 1.0 percent lower at 796.32 points after hitting a six-week low at 788.81. It fell 4.3 percent in Wednesday's previous session and had lost 45 percent last year.

Banks were the biggest sectoral losers, with Lloyds TSB (LLOY.L) slipping 11.7 percent, Commerzbank (CBKG.DE) dropping 10.8 percent, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA) shedding 6.6 percent, HSBC (HSBA.L) down 7 percent and Barclays (BARC.L) down 8.2 percent.

Shares in Deutsche Postbank (DPBGn.DE) plunged 19 percent amid a rash of downbeat broker notes a day after new terms for the company's takeover by Deutsche Bank were agreed.

...

Energy shares came under pressure as crude prices fell nearly 9 percent on concerns about falling global energy demand. BP (BP.L), Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L), BG Group (BG.L) and Tullow Oil (TLW.L) shed between 0.8 percent and 2.4 percent.

Miners were mixed, with Eurasian Natural Resources (ENRC.L) falling 4.5 percent, BHP Billiton (BLT.L) down 1.6 percent and Anglo American (AAL.L) falling 1.4 percent. But Antofagasta (ANTO.L) rose 4.1 percent and Xstrata (XTA.L) rose 1.7 percent.

Miner Rio Tinto said it suffered a sharp fall in iron ore output as eroding demand for autos and appliances hit both ends of the steel chain. Rio shares, however, ended up 1.5 percent.

Among other gainers, Elcoteq (ELQAV.HE) jumped 10 percent after the electronics manufacturer said it planned to cut around a quarter of its workforce and shut plants globally to cope with weaker demand.

Across Europe, Britain's FTSE 100 .FTSE, Germany's DAX .GDAXI and France's CAC-40 .FCHI were down between 1.4 and 1.9 percent.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCALF63682120090115?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. Japan's machinery orders tumble, deflation looms
Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:06am EST TOKYO, Jan 15 (Reuters) - Japan's core machinery orders fell a record 16.2 percent in November as companies slashed spending in the face of a global economic slump and a growing risk of a return to deflation at home.

Data also showed growth in wholesale prices slowing to a four-year low in December and companies charging each other less for final consumer goods than a year earlier.

...

The drop in core private-sector machinery orders, a leading indicator of corporate capital spending, was double the median market forecast for an 8.1 percent fall and bigger than the previous record decline of 15.9 percent in July 2006.

The value of core orders was the lowest since July 1987 at 754.2 billion yen ($8.5 billion).

The global slowdown has hit Japanese factories hard, with big firms such as car maker Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and electronics firm Sony Corp (6758.T) slashing output and jobs, deepening the recession in the world's No.2 economy.

Falling oil and other commodity prices have eased costs for Japanese firms, but have stoked fears that price falls and weak demand could feed each other in a vicious deflationary spiral.

The final price companies charge each other for goods fell 2.6 percent from a year earlier, a rough guide to likely pressure on prices in stores, and some see consumer inflation turning negative.

...

The weak machinery orders data pushed up the lead 10-year Japanese government bond futures to a four-month high of 140.19 2JGBv1. The Nikkei share average .N225 fell 4.9 percent to a 1-month closing low as the grim data dented investor confidence. <.T> FINEWS

...

Fuelling worries among some economists that deflation could return to haunt the economy, annual wholesale inflation slowed to 1.1 percent in December, above a median market forecast for 0.9 percent but less than half the 2.8 percent rise seen in the year to November.

...

The index on domestic final consumer goods, sometimes seen as a proxy to consumer price trends, fell 2.6 percent in December from a year earlier.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINT23173720090115?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
26. (US) Depression ahead, prepare for stock rout: SocGen
Thursday January 15, 7:32 am ET LONDON (Reuters) - Societe Generale said on Thursday that the United States' economy looks likely to enter a depression and China's could implode.

In a highly bearish note, veteran cross asset strategist Albert Edwards said investors should now cut equity exposure after a turn-of-the-year rally and prepare for a rout.

He predicted that the S&P 500 index of U.S. stocks could be set for a fall of around 40 percent from recent levels.

Edwards also raised the danger of a global trade war with China.

"While economic data in developed economies increasingly reflects depression rather than a deep recession, the real surprise in 2009 may lie elsewhere," Edwards wrote.

"It is becoming clear that the Chinese economy is imploding and this raises the possibility of regime change. To prevent this, the authorities would likely devalue the yuan. A subsequent trade war could see a re-run of the Great Depression."

/... http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/090115/business_us_markets_global_bear.html?.v=1
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. UN urges coordinated stimulus to tackle gloomy '09
Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:21am EST GENEVA, Jan 15 (Reuters) - Countries around the world must boost demand with massive coordinated packages to tackle an economic outlook of unrelieved gloom, the United Nations said on Thursday.

Launching its 2009 World Economic Situation and Prospects, the U.N. said the global economy was deteriorating so fast that the report's baseline assumptions were already out of date, and the pessimistic scenario was now more realistic.

...

The U.N. report forecasts 1.0 percent global economic growth this year, with small recessions in developed nations offset by strong growth in developing countries including China and India.

But a pessimistic scenario projects steeper contractions in rich countries and smaller growth in emerging and developing nations, giving an overall 0.4 percent decline in world output.

Flassbeck said this scenario was now more likely. "For the world as a whole the outcome could be zero or even slightly below zero. This is not an overly pessimistic view," he said.

The uncertainty generated by the rapid unwinding of speculative bubbles and the biggest changes in prices in 50 years means all forecasts are unreliable -- including those predicting recovery as soon as 2010, he said.

...

Instead, with interest rates in many countries now close to zero, all countries that can -- including those with low public debt and big current account surpluses -- must undertake massive and coordinated public spending to stimulate demand.

The incoming U.S. administration of Barack Obama is mulling an $800 billion stimulus package, and Flassbeck said other countries needed to think along similar lines.

China has launched a 4 trillion yuan ($585 billion) stimulus package, and Germany announced a 50 billion euro ($65.72 billion) package this week, which Flassbeck said was a step in the right direction, though too small.

He urged Japan to do more, despite its already high government debt, arguing that one lesson of Japan's crisis in the 1990s was that small packages were ineffective.

Such packages must not be tempered by protectionist devaluation as individual countries try to keep the benefits of stimulus at home by warding off imports, he said.

...

Flassbeck noted the current downturn was not only the result of the U.S. subprime crisis, but reflected the unwinding of speculative bubbles in housing in several countries, as well as equities, commodities and currencies. At the root of all these excesses was exaggerated deregulation, he said.

"It was the dogma of the last 20 years that financial liberalisation is the best thing in the world and you have to move savings around back and forth all the time and then the world will be a better place... It was not true," he said.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINLF16794420090115?rpc=44&sp=true
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
33. dollar watch


Last trade 84.243 Change -0.149 (-0.19%)

DDollar Falls Victim to Scramble for Safety, Boosting the Yen

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123194092353680957.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

NEW YORK -- The dollar declined to nearly a four-week low against the yen Wednesday as disappointing U.S. retail sales data and continued worries about the financial system sent investors grasping for safety.

The yen is considered a safe-haven currency, and the dollar fell as low as 88.60 intraday. But the greenback gained against the euro after Standard & Poor's downgraded Greece's sovereign rating to single-A-minus from single-A, with a stable outlook.

The "ongoing global financial and economic crisis has, in our opinion, exacerbated an underlying loss of competitiveness in the Greek economy," S&P credit analyst Marko Mrsnik said.

The common currency fell to fresh five-week lows of $1.3093 and 116.57 yen, respectively.

S&P also put Ireland, Portugal and Spain on CreditWatch for possible downgrades recently, and its quick move on Greece raises concerns for faster-than-anticipated action on other euro-zone nations.

...more...
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
35. US foreclosure filings up 81 percent in 2008
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/ap_on_bi_ge/foreclosure_rates

WASHINGTON – More than 2.3 million American homeowners faced foreclosure proceedings last year, an 81 percent increase from 2007, with the worst yet to come as consumers grapple with layoffs, shrinking investment portfolios and falling home prices.

Nationwide, more than 860,000 properties were actually repossessed by lenders, more than double the 2007 level, according to RealtyTrac, a foreclosure listing firm based in Irvine, Calif., which compiled the figures.

Moody's Economy.com, a research firm, predicts the number of homes lost to foreclosure is likely to rise by another 18 percent this year before tapering off slightly through 2011.

Still, foreclosures — which keep breaking records going back 30 years, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association — are likely to remain well above normal levels for years to come, and that will continue to keep home prices from rebounding.

"Hitting bottom is a lot different than coming off the bottom," said Christopher Thornberg, a principal with Beacon Economics in Los Angeles.

The RealtyTrac report comes as Democrats, including President-elect Barack Obama, develop plans to use up to $100 billion of the remaining $350 billion in financial bailout money in an attempt to prevent the foreclosure crisis from getting even worse.

The four states with the highest foreclosure rates last year were Nevada, Florida, Arizona and California.

More than 1.1 million properties in those four states received a foreclosure notice, almost half the national total. And more than one in five of those households were in California, which is coping with massive job losses in the housing and mortgage industries as well as a rapid decline in home prices.

...more...
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. 81%!
Yow!

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. I wonder how bad it really is.
I was talking with a woman at a party a couple of weeks ago. She owns a home, where she lives, in this area, and a condo across the state on the Atlantic Coast. She was a Real Estate Agent, but obviously, not anymore.

She hasn't made a payment on the condo in over a year, and has yet to receive a foreclosure notice. The mortgage is through Countrywide-BOA. She arranged a short sale, but the bank refused to even consider it. I guess when your mortgage is part of a tranche in a CDO somewhere, nobody can do anything about it.

She told the bank to stick it! She's not going to make another payment. Still, no foreclosure notice.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. These things take time
Several years ago, my daughter and her roommates lived in a house at college where the absentee landlord was in default the whole year. Wells Fargo held the mortgage.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. It's worse than this BECAUSE Fannie/Freddie, BAC, Country Wide and others..
Have a moratorium on foreclosures. So this 81% increase is limited to a smaller amount of banks. Very bad news!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. That explains it.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
36. Pool Entries (Morning of 1/15/2009)
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 10:40 AM by Prag
The Pool calls for your prediction on:

Where the Dow will be on Bush's last day and minute, 1/20/09, at 11:59am.

Note: Friday 1/16/2009 by the Market Close 16:00 ET is the deadline for submitting your target number. :o

Entries:

Ozy - 8016.73
radfringe - 8,243.74
Prag - Up-side: 8837.94, Down-side: 8158.10
Ghost Dog - 7,970.00
AnneD - Still waiting for Jimmy.
MsLeopard - 7777.77 (Casino Style.)
CatholicEdHead - 7863.56
DemReadingDU - 8080.80 (A nice round number.)
UpInArms - 7,578.24 (Wants that in Trillions.)
TalkingDog - 7500.00
PassingFair - 7500.00 (Could have a tie here!)
natrat - 6248.00 (Whoa, a new Cassandra!)
spinbaby - 7992.44

Anyone else?
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. 7992.44
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Consider yourself...
On the list! :7
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DoBotherMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
54. I'm going to be optimistic
and lose. 8999.99 Dana ; )
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #54
64. Pool Entries (Including some optimism)
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 11:51 AM by Prag
The Pool calls for your prediction on:

Where the Dow will be on Bush's last day and minute, 1/20/09, at 11:59am.

Note: Friday 1/16/2009 by the Market Close 16:00 ET is the deadline for submitting your target number. :o

Entries:

Ozymandius - 8016.73
radfringe - 8,243.74
Prag - Up-side: 8837.94, Down-side: 8158.10
Ghost Dog - 7,970.00
AnneD - Still waiting for Jimmy.
MsLeopard - 7777.77 (Casino Style.)
CatholicEdHead - 7863.56
DemReadingDU - 8080.80 (A nice round number.)
UpInArms - 7,578.24 (Wants that in Trillions.)
TalkingDog - 7500.00
PassingFair - 7500.00 (Could have a tie here!)
natrat - 6248.00 (Whoa, a new Cassandra!)
spinbaby - 7992.44
DanaM - 8999.99 (Highest!)
spotbird - 8516.00, 8580.00 or there abouts.
GliderGuider - 7650.00

Anyone else?
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
103. I am expecting a blush of optimism........
At 8395 or a sigh of relief low of 7890.

For Bush last market day. OK Jimmy-is that the spread?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
106. Hmmm...
Still cogitating. :crazy:
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #36
61. You missed Ozymandius! In at 8016.73 yesterday
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. Ozy is on there.
At the top of the list.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #63
78. Aha, right. Must be looking at too many numb
ers today. :thumbsup:
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
65. 8516. nt
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. 8580
Just short of a 2000 point decline in eight years.

It won't stay that high for long.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Which is it?
I just added the last one. :lol:

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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #67
100. Sorry, I intended to edit, not repost
It's the second, but if you give me enough guesses, I'll get it right.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #36
68. 7650
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. You're on there...
I'll post the master list again after the edit time on the one above expires. :)
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
72. Put me down for 7600. Thanks.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 12:22 PM by Birthmark
Edited because someone beat me to my original guess.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Low 8100 with upside of 9,000.....
Market will either rally in relief...or want to hold Obama's feet to fire to get more money.

Who knows...just putting in a guestimate for these crazy times.
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RetailSlave Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
88. 8888.88
I'm expecting some (brief) euphoria surrounding the long-desired departure of whatsizname from the White House.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
105. Pool Entries at COB 1/15/2009.
The Pool calls for your prediction on:

Where the Dow will be on Bush's last day and minute, 1/20/09, at 11:59am.

Note: Friday 1/16/2009 by the Market Close 16:00 ET is the deadline for submitting your target number. :o

Entries:

Ozymandius - 8,016.73
radfringe - 8,243.74
Prag - Up-side: 8,837.94, Down-side: 8,158.10
KoKo01 - Up-side: 9,000.00, Down-side: 8,100.00
Ghost Dog - 7,970.00
AnneD - Up-side: 8,395.00 or a sigh of relief Down-side of 7,890.00 (Finally heard from Jimmy.)
MsLeopard - 7,777.77 (Casino Style.)
CatholicEdHead - 7,863.56
DemReadingDU - 8,080.80 (A nice round number.)
UpInArms - 7,578.24 (Wants that in Trillions.)
TalkingDog - 7,500.00
PassingFair - 7,500.00 (Could have a tie here!)
natrat - 6,248.00 (Whoa, a new Cassandra!)
spinbaby - 7,992.44
DanaM - 8,999.99 (Highest!)
spotbird - 8,516.00, 8,580.00 or there abouts.
GliderGuider - 7,650.00
Birthmark - 7,600.00
RetailSlave - 8,888.88

Anyone else?

Hope I didn't miss anybody!
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
120. 8317.69 for me please.
Try a little birthday mojo and see what pans out. :)
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
46. cspan video - Where did $1.2 trillion go?

1/13/09 Fed Vice Chair Donald Kohn testified before the Financial Services Committee 1/12/09, along with John Bovenzi of the FDIC. The Fed's balance sheet has expanded by $1.2 trillion since September 1. Where did the money go? Kohn wouldn't say. appx 6 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj0JAfq4esk

video uploaded by RepAlanGrayson (D-Fl)
click on his website for short video clips
http://www.graysonforcongress.com/
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
49. RPT-Bank of America's CDS widen 30 bps to 210 bps

NEW YORK, Jan 15 (Reuters) - The cost of insuring Bank of America's debt with credit default swaps rose on Thursday, a day after reports that the bank is close to getting billions of dollars more in federal support.

Five-year credit default swaps on Bank of America rose by 30 basis points to 210 basis points, or $210,000 a year to protect $10 million of debt, according to data from Phoenix Partners Group.

A person familiar with Bank of America's talks for additional support said the bank has struggled to digest its Jan 1 buyout of former Wall Street brokerage Merrill Lynch and that Merrill's fourth quarter losses exceeded expectations.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN1551325820090115
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
51. Government admits faults on Equitable Life
LONDON (Reuters) - The government admitted regulatory failure in its handling of Equitable Life and said on Thursday it would pay compensation to the insurer's "disproportionately affected" policyholders.

Payouts could cost the public purse hundreds of millions of pounds, well short of the 5 billion called for by policyholders.

"We agree that there has been maladministration in particular areas and also that government action is merited as a result," Treasury Minister Yvette Cooper told MPs in response to an ombudsman's report on the regulation of the Equitable between 1988 and 2001.

Equitable Life, Britain's oldest mutual insurer with 1.5 million policyholders at its peak, almost collapsed in 2000 after being forced to honour unsustainable guarantees stretching back 30 years.

It eventually closed to new business in one of Britain's biggest financial scandals.

Cooper said there would be serious repercussions for the taxpayer if the government was forced to shell out each time a regulator was found wanting.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE50E3T720090115
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
56. Here's how it could be worse: 2008 shows risks of privatizing Social Security
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 11:12 AM by antigop
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/13/news/economy/sloan_retirement.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009011311


If your year-end 401(k) statement made you feel like barfing, I have one consolation for you: it could be worse. How's that possible, given how horrible last year was for investors? Simple: If you're not close to retirement, you've got time to recover.

If you're in the retirement-age zone, as I am (I'm 64), at least you've got the option of hanging on until things get better. If you're in the mandatory-withdrawal part of life (more than 70 ½ years old) or just need some retirement cash, you can take a minimal distribution this year and hope for the best.

If, however, you were forced to buy a lifetime annuity with your current balance - when you buy such an annuity, you trade your cash for a series of guaranteed payments for the rest of your life - you'd be making your loss permanent. That's how things could be worse.

That scenario is what could have happened to many people under President Bush's proposed Social Security privatization program. It would have required people of modest and very modest means who invested their Social Security taxes in the market to turn some or all of those accounts into annuities when they hit retirement age. (Yes, Bush never proposed a specific plan - but annuitizing private accounts for some people is what his 2001 Social Security privatization commission proposed.)

Alan Sloan, editor-at-large, is the author of the article.
Note to Alan: Alan, take a look around-- how many 64 year-olds do you see working at Fortune Magazine? While YOU may have the "option of hanging on until things get better", how many people have that option? How many older workers do you see at Fortune 500 companies?
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
58. JPMorgan shares fall after Moody's cuts its credit rating

NEW YORK, Jan 15 (Reuters) - Shares of JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N) reversed gains on Thursday after credit rating agency Moody's Investors Service downgraded the rating on the company's senior debt to Aa3 from Aa2.

The long-term bank deposit rating on JPMorgan Chase Bank was also cut, to Aa1 from Aaa.

Shares slid 3.8 percent to $24.92 after having gained up more than 2 percent after reporting earnings earlier.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUKN1551971020090115

Great! Now watch Chase raise everybody's CC interest rates to raise money!


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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #58
79. citi group morgan stanley will now be named citimorg
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. What's that you say, CitiMorgue? Yea, has a nice ring to it. nt
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #82
94. Or how 'bout
Morgue City?


Tansy Gold, feeling decidedly morbid today
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
59. Why didn't Madoff get the slammer in the first place?
http://www.propublica.org/article/why-didnt-madoff-get-the-slammer-in-the-first-place-0108

How did the man accused of the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, with untold access to money and influence, get house arrest in the first place? Why not the slammer?

To find out, we called Anthony Barkow, executive director of the Center on the Administration of Criminal Law at the New York University School of Law. Barkow is a former federal prosecutor who handled white-collar cases.

He explained that judges are bound by the Bail Reform Act, a federal law that governs pretrial detention <3>, and can consider two factors when deciding whether to detain a defendant: Is the accused a danger to the community? And does he or she pose a flight risk?

In most cases, the burden is on the government to prove a person should be detained — defendants are innocent until proven guilty — and the judge is supposed to set the least restrictive terms that guarantee the defendant will come back to court. Sometimes that can mean house arrest.

"There was a public outcry for Madoff’s detention," Barkow said, "but a lot of that was rooted in a misunderstanding of the law."
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
60. Bad loans rise at Capital One Financial

Charge-offs and delinquencies are on the rise at Capital One Financial Corp.

The McLean, Va.-based financial giant disclosed in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Jan. 14 that it charged off nearly 11 percent more auto and credit card loans in December than in November.

Loans at least 30 days past due also increased.

In December, Capital One (NYSE: COF) charged off $453 million worth of credit card loans and $107 million worth of auto loans. International loan charge-offs rose 16 percent to $46 million.

At the end of the month, Capital One had $70.5 billion in credit card loans on its books; $21.5 billion worth of auto loans; and $8.7 billion worth of international loans. The delinquency rate for all three categories increased in December: 4.8 percent for credit cards, 9.9 percent for auto loans, and 5.5 percent for international loans.


http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2009/01/12/daily35.html
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #60
99. Capital One to customers: "What's in your wallet?"
Customers to Capital One: "jack shit".
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #60
109. That'll larn 'em for refusing me a credit card and then bombarding me with
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 07:25 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
junk mail to take one out. Well, they were the only sensible ones, it's true. I mean for refusing me. They must have lowered their standards! Though it could just have been caused by this slump.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
62. Volcker group recommends regulation of financial markets
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/15/news/economy/volcker_regulation/index.htm?postversion=2009011511


Financial markets must be made more transparent - with closer attention paid to risk management - in order to prevent another global economic collapse, according to a report released Thursday by a body of top economists led by former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker.

Volcker, the head of President-elect Barack Obama's special economic recovery advisory board, presided over the Fed from 1979 to 1987, a period of extreme financial unrest. He is known for raising interest rates to historic highs under the Carter and Reagan administrations in order to combat out-of-control inflation.

"The issue posed by the present crisis is crystal clear," said Volcker. "We restore strong, competitive, innovative financial markets to support global economic growth without once again risking a breakdown in market functioning so severe as to put the world economies at risk."

The economists' group, named the Group of 30, called for tighter regulation of the financial sector, improving coordination between government and international regulators. They also suggest regulators be allowed to work independently from politics, as political and market pressures can compromise their goals.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
95. Ya gotta love this guy...
one of the few remaining honest brokers. The fact that he is as old as he is and went though the Depression (b.9/5/27)gives me comfort. I wish he was the Treasury Sec. I'd feel better.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. yeah, me, too. n/t
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
77. Wow. Kedrosky says, unequivically, we are in a Depression.
In a post on his blog, titled Things I Don't Care About or Believe In, he says he's sick of the "Is it a recession or a depression???" debate.

Obvious facts, he says, have already settled the debate:

...We're doing that denial thing about a depression the same way we did about about a recession. A credit collapse, trade spiral, disappeared confidence, failing banks, fast-rising unemployment, and loss of confidence worldwide: We are in a depression of some to-be-determined eventual severity. Stop talking and move on.

Link:
http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2009/01/15/things_i_dont_c_1.html
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
87. Black Angus Steakhouse Operator Files Bankruptcy
Jan. 15 (Bloomberg) -- ARG Enterprises Inc., the operator of 69 Black Angus Steakhouse restaurants in seven states in the western U.S., sought bankruptcy protection and said it is seeking a buyer.

Closely held ARG, with headquarters in Los Altos, California, said in today’s Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware, that it has between $100 million and $500 million in both assets and debts.

“The debtors’ restaurants primarily are located in some of the areas hardest hit by the mortgage crisis, causing consumers in those markets to cut back on discretionary spending,” Lisa Poulin, ARG’s chief restructuring officer, said in a statement filed with the bankruptcy court.

Several casual-dining style chains have filed for court protection in the past year, including Bennigan’s Steak and Ale restaurants and Buffet Holdings Inc. Pecus ARG Holding Inc., the owner of ARG, and subsidiary ARG Property Management Corp. also filed bankruptcy petitions.

-----

Black Angus, which specializes in black angus steaks, prime rib and seafood, was founded in Seattle in 1964 and employs more than 3,600 people. The company projects revenue of $181 million for 2008, according to Poulin.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGiMYbsCjwLE&refer=worldwide
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Darn, I wanted a big ass steak to go along with my $20,000 TV set
There's an idea, they should merge with Circuit City even though neither has anything to do with the other! Then they can sell insurance, mortgages and credit cards too! I say we deregulate them and arm all the employees along with college kids during exams!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. Can't do much about the steak, but
I got a big-assed dog and a $700 TV.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
91. Oh look! Faeries!
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Somebody is pumping some big $$$ into Financials...
Gee, who could that be? Will they be on TeeVee tonight? :eyes:
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Dem stim. package being used as excuse
Could be a change in the Fed's strategy for pumping the markets, they might start pumping the Wall Street markets on news that is good for Main St. instead of the opposite which they've been doing for a few years now.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. Faeries left for Happy Hour.
Will they be back?
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #96
104. I am leaving now myself...
Nothing funnnier than a group of Nurses letting their hair down.....
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
110. "The Messiah Rally", and a Nation Of Blind, Drooling Sheep.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 07:40 PM by TheWatcher
Good Evening Marketeers.

Oh COME ON, you KNEW I'd be posting today. Although by all rights I really shouldn't be. More on that in a moment.

SO today we have yet another Engineered, Fabricated, Nonsense Rally based on more "Gun To The Head Legislation", from a guy who hasn't even been sworn in I might add, with the same jingoistic chant that Stammerin" Hank cooed to the public just a few weeks ago.

"Give Me The Money, or the seas will boil, the skies will fall, and the economy will never recover, and you won't be able to drool in front of your TV's in perfect oblivious coma, with your Official McDonald's feedbag strapped to your face, feeling good."

You know, at long last, I am beginning to wonder if it is even POSSIBLE for the millions of programmed, dumbed down, propaganda lathered sheep to EVER see the light.

We have such an interesting Cycle that occurs, and I'm sure most of you can see it.

The Official Sector comes in for a few weeks, pumps up the Market, with Propaganda as cover stories, artificially moving the Market to whatever Price they decide to set it at.

Then, little by little, every fake, fabricated rally falls apart as the REAL Truth, or what they will ALLOW us to know, comes out.

The game is simple. Pump the Market to distract the sheep, put them to sleep, and manage their perceptions so there is no panic. Then, each rally simply deflates until we reach the SAME Critical Support Level (7800-8000), and in the late afternoon when things are going off a cliff, a cover story is released, and all is well again. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

So what trading advice would I offer here, well, if you are a bear, TAKE CARE, because you may just get taken to the wood chipper the next three or four trading days. I fully expect a sharp, spectacular, feel-good rally that I like to call "The Messiah Rally" which will coincide with Obama's swearing in. There won't be any other explanation given, it won't make any sense, and they can do a news dump of all the horrible news because the sheep will be too enthralled welcoming "Change."

You know, I have to wonder at long last, what is WRONG with the people of this country? Why do they just keep buying into EVERY lie they are fed, every deception, while IGNORING the reality that is clearly in front of their faces?

It's as if they expect on January 20th, a wave of energy will sweep the Planet, just like The Genesis Project in Star Trek III: The Search For Spock, and a whole new world will be born, and everything that has come before this day does not matter.

They are willing to sacrifice ANY principle, ANY ideal, ANY moral, ANY concept of reality, so that they can feel good, and live and die for a

LIE.



It's incredible. I have never seen a civilization so eager to willfully finish itself off, just so they don't have to deal with reality.

And if you look at what they ignored TODAY, you have to admit, this has gone beyond any reasonable measure of denial. This is DELUSION at it's MOST DANGEROUS. WE CANNOT SURVIVE as a nation this way. We simply can't.

Microsoft Layoffs let out of the bag- Microsoft plant to cut 10-17% of it's workforce.

Do you remember when this rumor first got started, and the reaction from the media and the public was to pooh-pooh it at any cost? "It doesn't exist. It's one of those sill Conspiracy Internet Rumors born of some disgruntled employee wanting attention."

Well, today they FINALLY owned up to the fact that the perspective lay-offs could be between 10 and 15 THOUSAND if I have my math correct.

Intel Profits down 90%.

Unemployment is at 7.2%. And that is the FAKE number.

GM and the Autos are basically Bankrupt and on Life Support.

JPMorgan released their fictional numbers today which hint that are about done as well.

The financials are in SERIOUS trouble.

All things point to a collapsing economy.

But what does everyone focus on?

Yes, ANOTHER Bailout. Not like the other ones have worked or anything, but hey, it's more important to feel good and suck down Burger King's TOWERING new Angus Sandwiches than deal with reality.

The people not only CAN'T get it, they DON'T WANT to get it.

The Dow has basically become nothing more than a rigged casino controlled by TPTB who use it as nothing more than a Price Setting Mechanism.

The things I have talked about in this post, and others, all of the patterns and evidence are PLAIN to see. Any independent thinking person could EVENTUALLY figure it out.

But what does the average American do?

"It doesn't Exist. It isn't real. You're a Conspiracy Theorist. You're A Doom Fetishist that wants the worst to happen, and doesn't want to tow the line or do what's best for "The Football Team." You're interfering with my false paradigm that I live in so I can feel good and not have to think. Layoffs don't exist. Microsoft doesn't exist."

And on, and on, and on, and on, and ON.

And before the apologists who seize any opportunity to chastise anyone for not being a "true believer" of Mr. Obama, I'm sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree here. This has NOTHING to do with that. What it has to do with is the willingness of the people to continue to swallow every lie, every piece of propaganda, and every deception, to their own detriment, as well as the detriment of everyone else.

But for those who can't see the light by now, I have to say this. I am DONE. Done trying to do the right thing and point out reality. Done trying to help people and save them from mistakes that will GRAVELY affect them and their families future. Done trying to "catapult the propaganda."

Because it seems to me that people who continue to feed into this maelstrom DON'T CARE about the Truth. They DON'T CARE about reality. The DON'T WANT TO KNOW.

They only want their PERCEPTIONS Managed. "Just tell me what I want to hear and I'll go along with it, and get back to shopping, gobbling cheeseburgers, engorging on junk culture, and living in a fantasy land. Just tell me what I want to hear and I'll tow the line."

So will the breathtaking Circus take place next week. hey, DON'T bet your life on it, because these days it is never completely clear what the agenda is. You really have to learn to think like a criminal, and then give your BEST GUESS.

But it's a lot better than just swallowing the lies.

If I could speak directly to the majority of the blind in this country this would be my message.

WAKE UP America.

There is NO INVESTING ANY MORE. Only Artificial Price Setting and Price Adjustment.

There is no REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT. Only a machine that leads you like sheep to the slaughter for whatever agenda you are to be processed for.

You don't have to believe me. You don't have to take my word for it. I'm not a genius. I'm not a Rhodes Scholar, I'm nothing special.

I just OPEN MY EYES to my environment.

It's not hard.

But you won't do it will you?

No. dying for a lie is more important than living for the Truth.

Jesus, ROME, even in it's LAST DAYS was more sane than this.

Good Luck To You Marketeers. Be safe, and Best Wishes to you all. I know sometimes it feels like you are screaming into the darkness, but don't stop. Maybe, JUST maybe.....You never know.

As for me, I am on my way to the ER.

I have had a 103 temperature for two days, and I need to find out why.

So my apologies if this sounded like it was written in a state of delirium.

Because it probably was.

But that doesn't make it any less relevant.





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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. That's an amazing screed there, TheWatcher.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 08:00 PM by ozymandius
You touch on an idea that has been given a great amount of examination: Do societies fail because they choose to fail? Or do they fail because they cannot comprehend the enormity of their existence?

I will also note that a line from the "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies comes to mind when considering modern finance advances: "Take what you can. Give nothing back." It just seems apt.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. Nice rant!

Hope you feel better soon.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. I Feel For You==Take Care of Yourself
That is the only thing you can control (when you can control anything).
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #110
116. you are way too lucid
while halucinating

:toast:

get better soon and post more often!
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #110
119. You know as well as I that this was all decided at Göbekli Tepe 11,000 years ago.
Edited on Thu Jan-15-09 11:22 PM by Prag
I suppose it was pretty obvious that Hunting and Gathering was no longer a feasible
lifestyle... and, well... That the adoption of Domestication and Agriculture meant
there would be sheep and there would be shepherds (more like wolves these days). Always...
and bubbles of feast and famine too.

But, I don't believe it must be that way... It's how the shepherds predators like it though.

Take care Watcher and I hope you recover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
113. Here's your baked ending.
Dow 8,212.49 Up 12.35 (0.15%)
Nasdaq 1,511.84 Up 22.20 (1.49%)
S&P 500 843.74 Up 1.12 (0.13%)
10-Yr Bond 2.201% Down 0.012

NYSE Volume 7,950,148,500
Nasdaq Volume 2,522,259,250

4:30 pm : Stocks concluded a whipsaw session with modest modest gains after market participants stepped in to provide short-term support to stocks.

During the session the stock market had been down as much as 3%, while the Dow dropped more than 600 points to cross 8000 for the first time since its November bear market low.

At their session lows both indices were down 12% from their January high. With a sense stocks were becoming oversold, buyers stepped in to provide support.

Eight of the 10 sectors finished higher. Telecom (-1.1%) and financials (-5.1%) were the only sectors that failed to make their way into positive territory.

Financials led the session's initial losses. The sector had been down as much as 8.3% as JPMorgan Chase (JPM 24.34, -1.57), Bank of America (BAC 8.32, -1.88), and Citigroup (C 3.83, -0.70) led losses.

JPMorgan Chase reported fourth quarter adjusted earnings of $0.07 per share, which was better than the break-even level that Wall Street was expecting. Still, the results were far below the $0.86 per share earned one year ago. JPMorgan also reminded investors just how shaky macro conditions remain when it reported it added $4.1 billion (pretax) to loan loss reserves.

Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal reported Bank of America is close to receiving additional federal aid to assist in the acquisition of Merrill Lynch, even though the bank has already received $25 billion in federal funds. The need for additional capital led many investors to question whether the bank can maintain its dividend. The stock had been down more than 20% to reach new multiyear lows, but finished off those levesl. At BAC's current share price, the stock carries a dividend yield of 15.3%.

Large-cap tech stocks like Research In Motion (RIMM 49.24, +4.14) and Qualcomm (QCOM 34.80, +1.04) helped the Nasdaq outperform the other headline indices this sesssion. Apple (AAPL 83.38, -1.95), however, traded as a laggard. Apple fell under pressure after its CEO, Steve Jobs, said he is taking a medical leave of absence until June.

Motorola (MOT 4.43, +0.32) was one of the latest companies to issue a cautious outlook and announce additional job cuts. Motorola expects fourth quarter revenue will likely range from $7.0 billion to $7.2 billion, which falls short of the $7.5 billion consensus estimate. The company will cut roughly 4,000 employees this year. That's in addition to the 3,000 cuts already announced.

Initial jobless claims for the week ending Jan. 10 totaled 524,000, which is up 54,000 week-over-week, and more than the 503,000 claims that were expected. Continuing claims stand at 4.497 million, which is less than the 4.62 million continuing claims that were expected. The prior reading was increased slightly to reflect 4.612 million continuing claims. Although encouraging at first glance, the continued claims improvement is likely a function of many people having exhausted their jobless claims benefits.

In other economic news, the December Producer Price Index fell 1.9% month-over-month, which wasn't quite as bad as the 2.0% downturn that was expected. Excluding food and energy, producer prices were up 0.2% month-over-month. Economists expected a 0.1% increase.DJ30 +12.35 NASDAQ +22.20 NQ100 +1.7% R2K +2.1% SP400 +1.7% SP500 +1.12 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1556/2.50 bln/1151 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 1670/1.65 bln/1420
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. lovely alliteration
modest gains after market participants stepped in to provide short-term support to stocks

blatherspeak for paid shills buying market futures
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-09 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
118. Minneapolis StarTribune newspaper files for Chapter 11
I know this is after hours, but they are currently owned by Avista Capital Partners who have drained the life out the newspaper. It is soon to be no more.

http://www.startribune.com/business/37685134.html

The Minneapolis Star Tribune filed a Chapter 11 bankruptcy petition Thursday night.

The filing had been anticipated for several months. It follows missed payments to the paper’s lenders, and comes less than two years after a private equity group, Avista Capital Partners, purchased the paper for $530 million.

In its filing, the newspaper listed assets of $493.2 million and liabilities of $661.1 million. The company said it hopes to use bankruptcy to restructure its debt and lower its labor costs.

Like most newspapers, the Star Tribune has experienced a sharp decline in print advertising. Its earnings before interest, taxes and debt payments was about $26 million in 2008, down from about $59 million in 2007 and about $115 million in 2004.
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