Will Your Vote Count? (WISH-TV investigation on voting machines)

[IndianaGreen]

From Indianapolis WISH-TV, the CBS affiliate, a breaking news that was broadcast at the 11 PM news.

An I-Team 8 Investigation
Part One: Will Your Vote Count?

By Rick Dawson and Loni Smith McKown
I-Team 8

An I-Team 8 investigation reveals recent changes in voting technology have raised the risk of fraud and miscounting. The investigation finds serious questions about security and troubling concerns on both how the technology is sold, and who is getting rich on public money. It’s an investigation into the heart and soul of our way of government: your ability to vote.

<snip>

“It opens the possibility for a very quiet and subtle alteration of the vote nationally, by someone who wished to do that,” said Eugene Spafford, Purdue computer expert. That someone could be an insider or hacker who could electronically rig an election.

Another concern: testing of voting machines isn't tough enough and could miss problems. There's always the possibility of equipment failure.

<snip>

Karen Horseman helped choose Marion County's new machines. But she tells the I-Team she has reservations about the technology. “The companies that program them, who's watching them and what they're doing? Imagine how simple it would be to program a machine to read a ballot a certain way every third precinct,” said Horseman. “Instead of actually stuffing the ballot box, now you program it.”

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886

[Eric J in MN]

1. High quality reporting from a local news station.

High quality reporting from a local news station in Indianopolis.

And on the second page, they have a link to:

http://VerifiedVoting.org

[jus_the_facts]

2. THIS....is exactly why it will be impossible to beat them......

.....they won't need the supreme clowns this time...they've had 4 years to get as many of these machines in as many precints as they could....AND to bribe countless voter registration office workers nationwide....it's gonna take a REVOLUTION to make our country a democracy again...such a shame it didn't take place in 2000...the fix is IN for '04....just wait and see! :evilfrown:

[yowzayowzayowza]

3. Makes Kerry's ....

preemptive legal challenge look more and more important.

[BadGimp]

10. you're right J T F

Even the most basic cash register creates an audit tape/log of each transaction and the date / time of same. So even if there is no receipt to compare against, the log establishes the transaction record.

These machines do not.

No audit trail means there can be no audit or recount

If you can fix an election, why would you not?

The GOP in congress has allowed the voting technology companies to own the software that isused to count our votes. They have allowed the companies to claim trademark and business secrets rights over that code so it can not be subject to scrutiny. This effectively means that the very mechanism used to count our votes is held by a small group of GOP right wing radical business interests, funded and spurred on by the GOP mob in Congress. How convenient for them.

We're hosed here people.

No way this can be turned back by Nov 04. FLA set the tone by mandating just the other day, that there can not, and will not be any recounts for oprecincts using the touch screen machines. And the justification they use is simply brilliant.

Bush will win in Nov and there will be nothing we can to to change it then or now.

[Andy_Stephenson]

17. The Revolution has started

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1128098&mesg_id=1128098

[dusty64]

4. Cool.

It really wouldn't hurt either to profile the backgrounds of the people running these companies. The scary collection of American Taliban all gathered in one place is WAY more than coincidence.

[leftchick]

5. Excellent point..... and who "certifies" the software that

we are not allowed to view. Just waht is The Election Center?

[leftchick]

6. R. Doug Lewis?!?

And Just who is R. Doug Lewis and who appointed him head of The Election Center? Major questions that need to be Answered.....

[nodehopper]

8. a link

Bev Harris is asking the same questions

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0308/S00072.htm

[Fla_Dem]

7. Does this mean when Kerry wins

the repukes will be filing legal challenges about the voting machines ?

[Jokerman]

9. My concerns with the report:

I watched the WISH report last night. I'm very happy that this is getting attention but they seemed to lump the new Marion County (Indy) system in with the touch screen systems.

We use a hand marked ballot that is then run through an optical scanner. I guess the scanner could be rigged but at least there would still be paper ballots for a recount.

I would have also have liked to see this info come up while the decisions were being made rather than after the touch screens are already in place.

I nearly jumped out of my chair when they showed the quote from the Diebold CEO about delivering votes to GWB.

[Mithras61]

11. The problem with Optical Scan Machines

is the same as with touch-screen machines. They use a program to count the ballots.

The only time a manual recount is done is when the vote is REALLY close, or if fraud is suspected. When someone wins 80% of the vote (see Chuck Hagel's "win"), there's no recount, because the margin is overwhelming. If the opscan counters are rigged, then the margin can be rigged as well as the individual count, so no manual recount happens.

[Jokerman]

13. Not the same

At least if fraud is suspected ballots can be recounted by hand or another scanner. With touchscreen no recount is possible under any circumstances.

I would favor random recounts and testing of optical scanners. It's still a huge step forward from the old mechanical machines where no recount was possible.

If anything that uses a program is bad, then what is the alternative?

[Mithras61]

14. How about a manual count of ballots in a public arena?

It's what many other democracies use. The French get their ballots counted in the local precinct by representatives of all parties, and numbers are posted publicly at the precinct. The counting is also viewed by as many witnesses as they can cram into the precinct building. They get their tallies in about 4 to 6 hours. Do you suppose we can wait 4 to 6 hours to get the final tally from our voting? After all, it used to take WEEKS to complete the ballot count. Now we expect the count within minutes of the closing of the polls. Why rush something so important?


Oh, and as to "not the same," as I said, it's only if the margin is large enough that they even consider doing a recount, and then they just run the ballots through the opscan machines again. If they get a significantly different answer on the second run, THEN they do a hand count.

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. Indiana has big problems...

49% of voters will be using DRE's in November.

http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/voters/vot_sys.html

[BiggJawn]

12. They use that system in Tippecanoe County...

And there was an article in the local paper this past fall about how the county secures the machines. They are kept in a storeroom with TWO locks on the door, and a Democratic Party AND a Republican Party representative have a key....

And the county locksmith, and the janitor, and the Fire Department.....
Who do they think they're fooling?
Oh...Yeah...MOST of the Public.....

I also understand that it will do no good to cast an absentee ballot. they don't even bother to get the ballots out of storage unless the race is close or contested, THEN they count the absentee ballots. Otherwise, they're sent to the landfill (or more likely burned in the GOP leader's bar-b-q pit)

[4dsc]

15. What about these companies offering DRE's

I am in contact with my state government over the concern that DRE have with the voting process.

He pointed out that in Iowa there are three DRE's that ARE approved for sale in Iowa, ES&S iVotronic, Fidlar-Doubleday EV200 and MicroVote EVM all of which are being used in Iowa, some for 10 years now with no reported problems, difficulty, or concerns.

Is there any concerns over these company's??

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. ES&S

A subsidiary of the GOP.

[Mithras61]

19. Check out Bev Harris' work...

http://www.blackboxvoting.com