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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 04:53 PM
Original message
Bush's Test for Pilot Training Was Altered
February 16, 2004



Bush's AFOQT record shows that the "Pilot Aptitude" score was blacked out and the value "25" entered and initialed by "RJD". One possible meaning is that a value lower than "25" was blacked out and replaced with the value "25".



Is "25" the lowest score for anyone to be admitted to flight training?

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/02/con04073.html



http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/3-Grade_Determination.pdf

Buzzflash has a copy of the actually document with the cross out posted.



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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gee, I'm getting used to hearing another lie revealed every day.
Can this be part of a plan to make us complacent about being constantly lied to? Ho hum. Just another deception. Yawn.

As Reagan said, "Facts are stupid things." So just change 'em!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Actually no
they are doing all they can to kill it...

This is continuing driping, and this is good for us
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great catch!
Can't wait to see where this one goes.
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Womblestuffer Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. looks like originally a 20, definately changed
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
99. I'm not sure it looks like a 20
It still is questionable as to why it was rewritten.
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SquireJons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bush Failed His Pilot Aptitude Test
An article I read here indicated that Bush failed his Pilot Aptitude test, but that he was given special consideration because his father was a WWII fighter pilot, not because his father was a super rich member of congress. No, really...
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. Much controversy over Poppy Bush and his war efforts - Some say his
stories aren't true about bailing out on his two buddies.

TBF/TBM Avenger - the plane poppy flew
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #62
82. I've heard that also..
that's all they do is LIE and it apparently runs in the family..
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Shoedogg Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Of COURSE it was altered...
He's George W. Friggin' Bush!

Nothing about this guy is not a lie.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. The original lie....
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Taeger Donating Member (914 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Statement of Intent

I, GEORGE WALKER BUSH, UPON SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF PILOT TRAINING PLAN TO RETURN TO MY UNIT AND FULFILL MY OBLIGATION TO THE UTMOST OF MY ABILITY. I HAVE APPLIED FOR PILOT TRAINING WITH THE GOAL OF MAKING FLYING A LIFETIME PURSUIT AND i BELIEVE I CAN BEST ACCOMPLISH THIS TO MY OWN SATISFACTION BY SERVING AS A MEMBER OF THE AIR NATIONAL GUARD AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

GEORGE WALKER BUSH



----------------------
I think he meant GETTING HIGH, I think he succeeded in flying throughout his life ;-)

I'm not sure that "quitting" flying really syncs with his oath. At the very LEAST, George is an oathbreaker. Why would we trust him with the presidential oath of office?


Beyond that, the flight score is typed elsewhere.

AFOQT FORM
Date Tested: 19 Jan 1968
Pilot: 25
Nav Tech: 50
O.Q.(?): 95
Verbal: 85
Quan.: 65

What is odd is that he got OK marks in all the other categories. So much for George's motor skills. The idea that anyone would normally let George be a fighter pilot is obscene. At best, he could be a navigator on a cargo plane.



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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. He thought it said "making LYING a lifetime pursuit..." n/t
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. ROFLMAO!
Best one in a while!

:toast:

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. If Bush flew like he does everything else one flight might just.....
have been the end of his lifetime! Too dumb to fly too stupid to eject at the right moment, SPLAT! The No Brainer in Chief would have been a hell of an awsome weapon against anything in his flight path including himself our airplane and the Texas landscape! John Kerry wasn't ever grounded and Bush wasn't ever grounded enough! He's still a BRAT!
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
98. Maybe the TANG Wanted To Use Him as a Kamakazee Pilot
too stupid to know how to land.. as proven by his 2003 aircraft carrier stunt.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. Outstanding.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I enlarged the doc and read 45, not 95 for both high scores.
OQ is officer quality- any white, upper middle class Yale grad should get 100 (highest score) in this one.
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Mithras61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
95. I looked at it at 400%...
and it looks like

Pilot Apt.: ?? (looks like it may have been a 15) 25
Nav. Apt.: 50
Officer Quality: 9.5
Verb. Apt: 35
Quan. Apt.: 65 (?? can't really discern the second number)
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I don't think 50 is very "OK", it's definitely an "F" in any college
course. And the overall average is 64, that's a D minus.
:eyes:

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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. "odd is that he got OK marks in all the other categories"
I am not sure but I thought they were percentile, not percentage, scores.
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
81. You're right, the scores are percentile, not percentage
When I was in AFROTC in 1968, the minimum qualifying score for pilot candidates was 40.

BTW, 95 percentile was the highest score you could get.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
64. * scores are average to poor
Edited on Mon Feb-16-04 09:24 PM by Angel_O_Peace
O.Q.(?): 95 (I think this was meant to be typed as "I.Q.")

95 is within the average intelligence range, with the mean being 100, and average being +/- 15 points on either side of the mean. (Average is 85-115)

Verbal: 85
85 is at the low end of the verbal knowledge/use rnage with 100 being the mean and the average being +/- 15 points on either side of the mean.

Quan.: 65
Quantitative score of 65 is very low, showing poor reasoning/logic skills.

Were these skills to be used to identify a student for SpEd services, * would have qualified for further testing, and the beginning of SpEd services for Learning Disabled with an eye on improving coping skills for learning and maintaining new information.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
67. navigator on a cargo plane. On the JFK to Newark run.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
79. Naw! Maybe a janitor on Amtrak with Joe Dirt
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
83. According to post #14, O.Q. and Verbal are 45. Not 95 or 85. (n/t)
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
85. Math not good enough to
be a navigator.
My father was pissed when they transferred him from pilot to navigator because his math was good. In WWII they had trouble getting people in flight schools with good math.
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
89. Motor skills?
You mean he couldn't put the square block in the square shaped hole and the triangle block in the triangular shaped hole?

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
103. Looks to me like RJI not RJD. That would be CAPT. Ralph J. Iannuzzi...
Also note that "1st. Lt." was also crossed out and "Capt." penciled in. :evilgrin:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Looks to me like 25 was written sloppily, lined out and initialed
That's how it would be done if it were legitimate, in my military experience.
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. I think you're right, 5 is the only number that looks to fit what's left.
Edited on Mon Feb-16-04 05:21 PM by mike1963
...
Unless it was miswritten as 35 or something and he discovered the mistake.
Edit: I just remember they gave me back the original test sheets after I took it in 66...they're probably in the attic. Wonder if those were included in the 400 page stack...
Hmm
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
80. Also take note
of the way the numbers are entered, they're not on the same lines...it's been altered...Some numbers are a bit higher or lower than the rest...Boy, do they have a LOT to hide or what!!LOLOL
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tinymontgomery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. I know in the navy deck logs
I know in the navy deck logs to correct a mistake you must put a line through the mistake, initial and then but what you were correcting. Thing is that you must be able to read what it was you lined out. Again one single line through the mistake.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
100. White out? Then create a fake number to strike through?
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. I saw the same thing.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe he'll rethink his position
on affirmative action.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, 25 is the lowest score possible.
My SO took (TANG pilot test)it in '67 (fall of college soph year), and he got a 99. Couldn't fly because of eyesight, though. Went to grad school in Germany, where his dad was the base commander.
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I got a 93, same eye problem (and I was already a commercial pilot)
...
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. http://www.larryflynt.com/articles/deserterinchief.html
When tested for the coveted Air Guard get-out, young George W. tested at 25 out of 100, one point above "too-dumb-to-fly" status, yet leaped ahead of hundreds of applicants to get the Guard slot.
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LostInTheMaise Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. Larry Flynt as a source?
You *can't* be serious. Sorry but abusers of women don't get any slack from me.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Larry's abused women?
That's an interesting accusation.
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militarymanusaf Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. When did Larry Flynt abuse women?
n/t
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. no -- greg palast as a source
reading is fundamental.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #76
87. Theft??
During his stay at Yale Bush had two encounters with the law including drunkenness and misdemeanor theft.

http://www.essays.cc/free_essays/f1/lmy109.shtml
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. How did he get a 95 on his Officer Qualification?
With a dismal Driving Record and Arrest's did they do that to boast his overall score.
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Taeger Donating Member (914 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Interesting

In the document on p.20 there is a disclosure form for any prior convictions:


17. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ARRESTED, INDICTED OR CONVICTED FOR ANY VIOLATION OF CIVIL OR MILITARY LAW INCLUDING MINOR TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS? (If "Yes" explain stating nature of offense, date, name and place of the start and disposition of the case.)


Misdemeanor - New Haven Conn - Dec 1966 - Charge Dissmissed
Two Speeding Tickets - July 64 - Aug 64 - $10 Fine - Houston Traffic Two Neligent Collisions - July 62 - Aug 62 - $25 Fine - Houston Traffic Ct.




It doesn't say WHAT charge was dissmissed in Dec 1966. Did Bush lie on his application????



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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. that was the frat prank
explanation of dismissal says victim implied no significant damage, etc. It's in there. Much better stuff than that in here. I'm just saying.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
84. There was also a 1967 arrest that he DIDN'T mention on the form
Arrested for disorderly conduct at a football game:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/US_election_race/Story/0,2763,392710,00.html
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
86. Is this listed?
Controversy about Early Personal Life
Bush had problems with alcohol for years after college. He was arrested and fined for driving under the influence of alcohol, after partying with tennis great John Newcombe, on September 4, 1976 in Kennebunkport, Maine. Bush was pulled over while driving with three passengers: his wife, Laura, tennis star John Newcombe, and Newcombe's wife during the Labor Day weekend when a police officer noticed Bush's vehicle swerving back and forth on the road. After the arrest, Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine, and had his driving privileges briefly revoked in the state of Maine.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Shrub was not a fighter pilot.
He was a quitter pilot.


:evilgrin:


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Tuttle Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. What does the Daytona 500 have in common with the TANG?


















Halfway through both of them, Bush* walked out...

Tut-tut
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. wheeeeeeeeeeeeee !
getting good
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm more interested in the verbal and quantitative scores
Is this on the standard scale where 100 is approximately median?
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I don't think so, but it's been a very long time ago. But pretty sure it
isn't possible to score over 100. Gack. Guess I'll have to go dig in the attic & see if I kept them.
;-)
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Here's what I found...
Assuming that this has remained unchanged from 1968

http://www.unl.edu/afrotc/assets/worddoc/AFOQT_faq.doc

1. What does the AFOQT test measure and how many parts are there?

Answer: The AFOQT measures aptitudes used to select candidates for officer commissioning programs and specific commissioned officer training programs. The test has 16 subtests. Subtest scores are combined to generate one or more of the five composite scores used to help predict success in certain types of Air Force training programs. The 16 subtests are:

Verbal Analogies
Arithmetic Reasoning
Reading Comprehension
Data Interpretation
Word Knowledge
Math Knowledge
Mechanical Comprehension
Electrical Maze
Scale Reading
Instrument Comprehension
Block Counting
Table Reading
Aviation Information
Rotated Blocks
General Science
Hidden Figures

2. How are scores determined?

Answer: The scores are reported in five composite areas:

Pilot
Navigator
Academic Aptitude
Verbal
Quantitative

These are the only scores which are reported. AFPC/DPPPWE does not combine or total the five composite areas. Each of the five composite areas is reported independently with a percentile score for each composite. Each composite score is determined using a combination of some of the 16 subtests:

The Pilot score is determined by the number of questions answered correctly on the following subtests:

Verbal Analogies
Mechanical Comprehension
Electrical Maze
Scale Reading
Instrument Comprehension
Block Counting
Table Reading
Aviation Information

The Navigator score is determined by the number of questions answered correctly on the following subtests:

Arithmetic Reasoning
Data Interpretation
Math Knowledge
Mechanical Comprehension
Electrical Maze
Scale Reading
Block Counting
Table Reading
Rotated Blocks
General Science
Hidden Figures

The Academic Aptitude score is determined by the number of questions answered correctly on the following subtests:

Verbal Analogies
Arithmetic Reasoning
Reading Comprehension
Data Interpretation
Word Knowledge
Math Knowledge

The Verbal score is determined by the number of questions answered correctly on the following subtests:

Verbal Analogies
Reading Comprehension
Word Knowledge

The Quantitative score is determined by the number of questions answered correctly on the following subtests:

Arithmetic Reasoning
Data Interpretation
Math Knowledge

3. What is a percentile score and what does it mean?

Answer: A percentile score indicates how an individual’s test performance compares to a normative reference group. A normative reference group consists of a group of examinees with demographic and aptitude characteristics representative of those who are taking the test. The number of test questions answered correctly by an examinee is compared to the scores of those in the normative reference group and the results are reported on a 1 to 99 scale. For example, an individual with a percentile score of 50 has a score equal to or better than 50% of those in the normative reference group, an individual with a percentile score of 75 has a score equal to or better than 75% of those in the normative reference group, etc. Research studies have shown that scores are predictive of performance in commissioning programs and specialized training programs such as pilot and navigator training. Selection boards then use these scores in combination with other factors to determine who will be selected.

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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Thanks. I thought about percentiles after I posted but wasn't sure if I
was recalling the AFOQT or the SATs...so many damn tests...
;-)

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KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Well..
If Reading Comprehension was a big part of this, I don't know why it should be so bad - I mean, he was able to read books that didn't even come out until years later :D
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. These are all PERCENTILE scores
That is, the max is 100, because the score marks your place within the group. Thus, on Officer Qualification, Bush scored better than 94% of the other test takers. On the Flying Qual, he scored worse than 75% of the other test takers.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. Geez, he can't do anything without cheating.
Name something he did. He probably cheated doing it.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. "RJD" Initials are
"RJI" and I'm guessing it's for Iannuzzi (signature at the bottom of the page). Dammit--I hate it when the source I use screws up like that. >:
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
57. Wonder if Ralph J. Iannuzzi is still alive...
If he is, he's probably already gotten his visit from the Men In Black.

There are several Ralph Iannuzzis listed, nationwide--one right here in my town--but none in Texas and none with the middle initial of "J," that I could find.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
101. Why did Iannuzzi cross out 1st Lt?
and replace with Capt? Seems odd. Don't tell me he got his promotion while he was getting the report typed.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #101
109. THAT is the interesting part to me.
Exactly when did Ianuzzi get promoted? Is changing test scores considered grounds for promotion?
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. Couple of things I find fascinating....
1. B*sh never worked 2 summers in the same place.
2. Seems his test control officer suffered a reduction in rank from 1st louie to capt. ????
3. There is another altered date, 4th page down from oath of office.
Handwritten scribbles 'Nov. 25'. This could be, again, sloppy and then written darker.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Cap't is higher rank than Lt.
in the Air Force.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Wow, I stand corrected!
How'd I mess that up? Actually, my point was that his rank was scribbled out and changed. Curious.
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
112. Let's hope that he will never get re-hired for a job
.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. RJI
That's Ralph J. Ianuzzi. Wonder if he's still around.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. I think that is looks like - 5
.
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. It read 2.5 before...
I guess dubya scored real low alright..

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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
42. That verbal score jumps out at me.

85 out of 3,000 maybe. Or he took a 3rd grade aptitude
test. But 85 out of 100 on an ASVAB or equivalent?
No way.

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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. No, it's 85th percentile
These are all percentile scores.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. That's what I mean

when I ask if it's 85 out of 3,000 instead of 85 out of 100 (which is the percentile). With this guy's 'verbal' skills, there's no way he hit the 85th percentile without a little 'help'.

No way.

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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. It's 85th percentile
They are all percentile scores.

Also, it may not be impossible for Bush to get an 85th percentile on that test at that time. While his speaking skills are terrible, he was brougfht up in a patrician family that values language use, which may not have been the case for his fellow test-takers. I buy an 85th percentile verbal for Bush just on that basis.

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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #49
91. it means that 85% of people did better than Bush...
a 5 percentile score means that a person is in the TOP five catagory...

85 percentile is very LOW...
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #91
102. It's the other way
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
45. George's SSN: 460-74-8610
They forgot to redact it in one of the documents in the pdf file at

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/3-Grade_Determination.pdf

I wonder what a Lexix Nexis search will come up with using that number.... Anyone have access to that?

Also, on the same document, he is listed as "Mrs. George Walker Bush" - did he show up in a dress???

"VOTE THEM OUT" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets
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Leados Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. I can't find anything with LexisNexis
although I'm not a person who uses it, so hopefully someone else knows how to use it better.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I wonder why this "mistake" was made...
Edited on Mon Feb-16-04 08:03 PM by Cronus
Thanks for checking. I'm wondering if this is a squeaky clean SSN, not his first in other words..... they redacted the number on all docs except one. Wierd.

"VOTE THEM OUT" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets
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Leados Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Looks like it was issued in Texas
Edited on Mon Feb-16-04 08:14 PM by Leados
according to

http://mistupid.com/social/ssbirth.htm

I'm not sure about the quality of its data, but it fits...

Also, Connecticut first 3 digits are 040-049.

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Maybe he got a new SSN when he got a new DL number?
Make sure the record is squeaky clean?

"VOTE THEM OUT" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. If I'm reading this page (see link) correctly, his number is pre-1965.
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #51
96. right--this is not a CT-issued SSN
Granted, back in the 60s and 70s it was fairly common not to apply for an SSN until you needed it for employment or whatever. So the fact he doesn't have one in the CT range doesn't necessarily mean anything other than that he didn't have to worry about a job as a young man. I wonder if Yale required SSNs in the 60s for its records.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. 1964 he turned 18
He is not listed in 1964 probably because the Polk Directory would not include those under that age. But he is shown in 1965, 1966, 1967 in Houston TX.

It appears that his first job was in 1962 with a law firm Baker, Botts, Shepherd and Coates in Houston TX.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
105. It appears to be legitimate
I did a search on a deceased with a similiar SSN and came up with 1945. That is only 1 year off and should be correct. I doubt that many know how SSN are issued. Also, issue state was Texas.
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #105
113. First three digits are specific to the state of issue
and the rest is a simple sequential number. If the first three digits are low, the SSN is from the east coast, while high numbers are from the west coast. 400 and 500 series are smack dab in the middle of the country. You can determine the general time of issue from the first three numbers, but a low population state could take several years to "use up" a specifc three digit sequence.

I was born in 62 and didn't get an SSN until I got a summer job when I was 16. It wasn't until much later that SSNs at birth were required (mostly to keep people from inventing dependants for tax purposes.)
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #113
119. Sorry, but my mum's begins with "553" and that was issued in CA
So I know these data can't be completley accurate. Hers was issued in CA in 1984.

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets
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Robin Hood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. IT states that verbal aptitude is 85.
So you know that this is bogus. If that were the case, by now he would have a 100 vor verbal aptitude.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. I think that was meant to be BS
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. Check the verbal and math from Yale
Disclaimer: I don't know if this pic is valid.

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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. that's it...71 and 72 in the ONLY economics course that shrub took
90 - 100 A
80 - 89 B
70 - 79 C
69 - 69 D


guess the shrub was barely able to make a very low C for economics, one course....and we can actually witness that level of brain power in shrub's current economic crisis....


overall, just a really poor student record...without an 'affirmative action legacy', shrub would have definitely been booted out...
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #71
92. And a 75 in "city planning". He must have had a real interest in it. nt
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #63
110. Reconciling Bush*s SAT to his Air Force Aptitude test might
Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 07:06 PM by amandabeech
mean that the Air Force test results on his official documents were doctored, as poster #14 asserts, or it may reflect the pool of test takers. It may be that more high verbals take the SAT than take the Air Force test, but more high maths than verbals take the Air Force Test. Since the Air Force test presents scores on a percentile basis, Bush would appear to have better verbal abilities in comparison to Air Force test takers than to SAT test takers. The reverse would be true for math.

Well, it's just a thought.

Personally, I think Bush may be above average in overall intelligence (his SAT's are not bad, but not great), but I think that he has a learning disability (and perhaps ADD) that effects his ability to read, communicate and maybe to concentrate. I think that he has almost no curiosity about the world and, as a result, has an absolutely minuscule knowledge base, even considering his learning disability. The result is obviously not a happy one for this country or the world.


Amanda

on edit: typo
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
54. I updated Bush's resume with his arrest record and links to the pdf
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
111. Go ahead and add the 1967 arrest too
this was covered in various articles back in 2000, including here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/US_election_race/Story/0,2763,392710,00.html

excerpt:
It is Mr Bush's third known arrest. He was charged with disorderly conduct in 1966 after stealing a Christmas tree while drunk when he was a Yale student. The charges were later dropped. The following year he was arrested in New Jersey for disorderly conduct after a college football game. He was given a caution.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #111
118. Thanks! I added that one now :)
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
56. Bush never flew solo! I can feel this in my bones! I've got a sixth sense!
I've said this since 2000!
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LostInTheMaise Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Congrats...now how to prove never flew?
Since 2000 you must have picked up some proof to back it up. How can we prove he never flew?
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #59
72. I can't, but if there's an investigation it will come out. We don't need
to spend the 100s of millions the Repukes spent on White Water to find nothing. For a few 1000 it can be done. Go back to the Training Teachers.
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LostInTheMaise Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
58. Must. Dig. Deeper.
It will be discovered that the F102 was piloted by wire and bush was handed his title by remote control or hook and crook. How to prove it?
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
60. Look at Page 22. "Do Not Volunteer For Overseas" is checked and...
...not blacked out, as in previous copies of this page that I've seen. His order of preference for duty in the US was:

1 Southwest
2 Southeast
3 South Central
4 North Central
5 Northwest
6 Northeast

Apparently, he didn't want to be within visiting distance of Poppy and Bar, up Kennebunkport way.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
61. Hey, here's what I was looking for!
This proves exactly what I thought - that BUSH's pal that said Bush volunteered for Nam is a stone cold LIE..

I KNEW I saw this before..

Gaze upon his own application --



these papers are a goldmine!

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. A man interested in women, whiskey, drugs and more drugs
doesn't want to get his ass shot, 'eh?

A cold stone lie it was!
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
66. It's not the only thing that was altered.
It appears that the officer signing was promoted from 1st Lt. to Captain. Congratulations Ralph!
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uhhuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
69. How's About This?
Pg. 20: Work history

What is the end date # for his work on that ranch in Texas?

He started in 6/64, but that end # is not a 4,5,6, or 7.
Interesting....
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #69
107. They use military dating system
Day Month Year

It is also used by the Europeans and genealogists.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
75. BTW, "25" is the minimum passing score on that test
Read that here the other day. It was noted that it was odd that Bush just happened to score exactly the minimum on the test to pass. Well, this explains it perfectly. He didn't actually pass the test.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #75
94. That 25 score - has anyone noticed
that the 5 is not in the same handwriting as the other 5's on that page? Notice particularly the top line of the five. That score was probably changed at a later time and by a different person.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #94
108. If we only had a better copy of the original to analyze
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
77. that's too rich! bush is SO busted!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-16-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
78. Put a monkey in the cockpit, and the jet'll crash every time.


Put a Bush in the White House,
and he'll crash the economy and start a war every time.

That's all they know.
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
88. Dummy forgot to put a name on the test.
Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 02:17 AM by sfg25
AHOLE spokesman:

"Dummy's test shows a score of 25, but that doesn't mean he really got a 25.:crazy:
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Bozvotros Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
90. Check out bottom of page 37 on the pdf file
There is a series of questions about whether George was in a fascist organization. It raises some questions about exactly what is the Skull and Bones if not a fascist organization. I also wonder if Kerry had to answer something similar to be in the Navy Seals....

One question George answered in the negative reads...

"Are you now or have you ever been in an organization, association, movement, group or combination of persons which advocates the overthrow of our constitutional form of government....violence against blah, blah blah.....or which seeks to alter the form of government of the United States by unconstitutional means."

What kind of loyalty oaths were required in the Skull and Bones? I'd like to hear Bush or Kerry expound at some length about what their membership means to them, what they had to do or promise during their initiation and what promises were given to them. This is an issue which cuts both ways for us as Kerry is also a member. But the Skull and Bones is a potentially huge wedge issue with Bush's Christian fundamentalist base, so bringing it up can
probably hurt Bush more than it will us.


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lowreed Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
93. Bush will visit Nat'nl Guard base before....
the troops get back from Iraq.

Lame o can't congratulate some returning soldiers?!?!

<snip>
Bush was scheduled to spend Tuesday at Fort Polk, Louisiana, where he planned to give a speech to thank troops there for their service and sacrifice...
<snip>
Fort Polk is home to a regiment due to return soon from a year of service in Iraq. The 4,000-strong 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment, in Iraq since last March, is to return sometime in March or April.
</snip>
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/17/elec04.prez.bush.louisiana.ap/index.html
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
97. 25=(1 point above "Too Dumb To Fly")
now we find that the 25 was written in??

i'll bet he never flew any plane and infact was just a passenger. he sure liked to pose for pictures standing next a plane he claimed to "fly".

what a MORON!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
104. Looks to me like RJI not RJD. That would be CAPT. Ralph J. Iannuzzi...
Also note that "1st. Lt." was also crossed out and "Capt." penciled in.


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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
114. The more I study that darn '25' I'm convinced that it was
a lower number that first someone tried to change directly, you know as in turn a 1 into a 2 and when that didn't look good, it was crossed out to obscure it and then the 25 was substituted -- interesting that that is the lowest possible score. I mean to hit it right on the nose seems weird -- I mean couldn't he have managed at least a 26 or 27??
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. The 2 on the 25 looks like a Z almost
Hell, they could have changed that to a 2, and that's why it
looks like a Z. Lots of possibilities here.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. blow it up to 400% and it reads 15 & O. Q. = 9.5 not 95
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Holy $hi#
This is unreal. I was in the Army during Vietnam and worked with documents like this all the time. When one came in looking like this one, a red flag went up. Different people, using different pens, on different dates have altered this. Time to lower the boom!!!!!!!
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