Microsoft blames leap year for Zune freeze

[RamboLiberal]

Source: MSNBC

Microsoft said Wednesday that a leap year issue caused problems with the 30-gigabyte versions of its Zune digital music player, following a flood of online customer complaints about the devices freezing up.

The company issued a statement pinpointing “a bug in the internal clock driver related to the way the device handles a leap year.”

Microsoft also said that “the issue should be resolved over the next 24 hours as the time change moves to Jan. 1, 2009.”

This year, an extra day was tacked on to February, making this a leap year. By international agreement, the world’s timekeepers are also adding a “leap second” tonight to keep Earth apace with very precise clocks.

The internal clocks on what is known as the Zune 30 should reset at noon GMT on Thursday, the company said. After that, 30-gigabyte Zune users should follow these three steps:

Let the battery die.
Recharge it.
Turn the device on.

Zune Pass subscribers may need to sync their devices with their PCs to “refresh the rights to the subscription content you have downloaded to your device,” according to Microsoft’s statement.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28449091/

---

Sloppy. As someone who programmed computers back in the punch card stone age - you knew you had to account for leap years.

[frog92969]

1. It amazes me that they stay in business

I guess propaganda rules.

[Dennis Donovan]

6. Hey now, don't pick on Mojave... er, I mean Vista...

An OS so nice, they named it twice...:puke:

[fascisthunter]

35. monopolies rule

and their propaganda is used to keep them in positions of power.

[slackmaster]

68. Most people are aware only of Microsoft's consumer OSs and other products

They are a very strong player in the commercial software market. I have been running Windows-based Web, application, and database servers professionally for almost 15 years.

Windows 2000, 2003, SQL Server 2000, 2005, etc. are very strong, stable platforms for business use.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. How can you blame MS? I mean, who can predict these "leap years" anyway?

:crazy:

[Sherman A1]

4. Well Said!

Gosh Darn them leap years! Must a been a terrorist plot or sumthin'

:freak:

[Dennis Donovan]

5. ...or a Linux Plot. Damn them open sourcers!

:rofl:

[TheEuclideanOne]

16. If I am understanding it correctly, this was not traditionally a leap year and an extra day

was tacked on, suddenly making it one. Is that correct? If so, I would not blame Microsoft. No matter how good any programmer is, this is just one of those things that you gotta cut them some slack on. I need to find out more about that date being tacked on this year. I sort of recall hearing about it, but the details are not very clear. Does anybody else remember the details of that and can fill me in?

[dnbn]

18. It was a regular leap year.

Every year that is divisible by 4, like 2008, is a leap year except if it's divisible by 100 and not by 400 (so 2000 was a leap year but 1900 wasn't).

[sendero]

19. This code...

if((year % 4 == 0 && year % 100 != 0) || year % 400 == 0)
  return 1; /* leap */
 else
  return 0; /* no leap */

...has been around since the 70s. Microsoft is an amateurish coding outfit, always has been, always will be.

[TheEuclideanOne]

31. Maybe they mistakenly added this line of code

if(year == 2008 && month==12 && day==31)
{
FreezeZune();
}


Seems like an honest mistake to me.

[Dennis Donovan]

63. hahaha!

:spray:

[TheEuclideanOne]

30. That was my understanding of leap years, but this part of the original post threw me off

This year, an extra day was tacked on to February, making this a leap year. By international agreement, the world’s timekeepers are also adding a “leap second” tonight to keep Earth apace with very precise clocks.

Did something out of the ordinary happen this year? It makes it sound that way. Then again, this is the first time that I have heard of something negative happening as a result of this. I would think that if it really was out of the ordinary, we would see other examples coming to light.

[daleo]

45. I think the reporter just added some irrelevant stuff about the leap second

Which made Microsoft seem somewhat less incompetent than they really were in this matter.

[TheEuclideanOne]

51. Yeah, after re-reading it a few times I realized that

he was just describing what a leap year was. It is like saying that this year December has 31 days, as if this year is different than any other year. So, in short, this year was a leap year and for some reason the ZUNE didn't handle it so well.

[daleo]

77. I think newspapers sometimes throw in these irrelevant facts

As a way to make a straight-forward story seem obscure. I have noticed this is often done when the item is describing something embarrassing about powerful people or organizations (like Microsoft).

[leftofcool]

3. Another fine product brought to you by Microsludge

[billyoc]

7. No premonition could have seen a leap year coming.

:rofl:

[TheEuclideanOne]

17. It was that damn Y2K8FEB nightmare scenario

[HopeHoops]

24. Hey, it isn't like Microsoft has ever handled a leap year before - give them a break!

[Frank Cannon]

8. Why does a "music player" even need to worry about leap years?

None of the stereo systems that I've ever owned have ever given a shit about what year it was, let alone the day.

[Dennis Donovan]

10. They all sync with software on your computer...

...and have software themselves. All software depends on time coding.

[Frank Cannon]

11. I have a Sandisk MP3 player that couldn't care less about the date

I'm not sure I agree with you that ALL software depends on time coding.

[Dennis Donovan]

13. Even your SD player depends on time coding - not necessarily, actual-time-dependent...

[Cronopio]

28. Sorry but I would *never* allow code that hangs the device on a timestamp error to be shipped.

I know that makes me an old-school coder, but handling errors gracefully is an essential part of any professional-quality code. This is typical Microsoft (Deadwood, Inc.) arrogance and PR fear - blame time itself rather than admit to an engineering mistake.

Microsoft has been the biggest part of the problem but is not the only part. Coding standards in general have tanked industry-wide in the last 10-15 years. Software engineering has ceased to be a profession where competence is rewarded before anything else.

The reason: too many coders and too much money floating around.

edit: english

[timtom]

48. Me too

Although it does have a clock. I load my stuff manually. The hell with Windows Media Player. Sync THIS!

Sansa's are great!

[DJ13]

41. Why? Because Microsoft's DRM was designed to be time limited if they want

Microsoft has been trying for 8 years to become the media gate keeper of choice, so syncing their digital rights management to a clock gave them a selling point to the music/movie industry where they could assure them that if those companies wanted to migrate to a rental distribution system (a fee per month for unlimited usage/downloads) they could.

The clock sync allows them to turn off rentals at a predetermined time.

Of course in all the publicity over the 30GB Zune's freezing at once no MSM outfit will tell you this.

[customerserviceguy]

47. Yep, this is DRM

also known as, "We Plan to Resell You Your Entire Music Collection Every Five Years or So".

It's worked ever since they saw people buying eight-tracks with music they already had on an LP.

[Frank Cannon]

57. I figured that this was a DRM thing

DRM is the direct source of about everything that sucks in today's software world.

[Tesha]

43. As a multi-function device, the Zune is capable of displaying the date and time.

Well, *IS INTENDED TO BE CAPABLE* of displaying the date and time.
Apparently, the reality of the situation isn't quite so clear as the intent ;).

Tesha

[nebenaube]

64. DRM n/t

[baldguy]

67. Defective By Design

[Dennis Donovan]

9. I love their restore/reset procedure:

Let the battery die.
Recharge it.
Turn the device on.

:eyes:

Although far from perfect, I love my iPods. My 2nd gen iPod from 2003 still works flawlessly and my new Touch is the cat's ass.:thumbsup:

[Tuttle]

12. iPhone owner here

I am seriously underwhelmed by it and I find iTunes to be a REAL piece of garbage: so bad that some here might snicker, if it came from Redmond.

Or maybe it's all "insanely great" and I'm just not enough of a hipster/slacker...

Tut-tut

[Cronus Protagonist]

69. I sure hope the battery doesn't fail in that thing

I understand you cannot access it to replace it, or remove it to ensure you cannot be tracked. It's a brave new world, for sure :P

[fudge stripe cookays]

49. Sorry, my IPOD was a piece of crap.

My Zune (until this particular incident) has not given me a bit of trouble. I'll buy another if it dies because my IPOD is now an amazingly expensive paperweight.

[Heddi]

54. I love my zune, Too

I've had a 30gb since April and this is THE ABSOLUTE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER HAD A PROBLEM, EVER.

The battery life ROCKS---I charge it once a week or less, and in that time use it in the car, use it waiting for the bus, use it at work, play games on it, accidentally turn it on when it's in my pocket, etc.

I guess it's just Kewl to hate MS products for no reason whatsoever. I guarantee you that everyone bitching about the Zune on this thread doesn't have one, hasnt' touched one, and only gets their opinions of it from Apple boards and fansites.

[Dennis Donovan]

62. I've been lucky...

My first iPod (3rd gen - I mistankenly referred to it as a 2nd gen in my previous post) is still fully functional - over 5 years after I bought it.

[SpiralHawk]

14. How perfectly Republicon - to dodge responsibility

Like, they could not have foreseen Leap Year? Pathetic.

[Psephos]

56. Except, Microsoft is a mildly blue company n/t

[cobalt1999]

15. With all the good MP3 players out there, I'm shocked some people actually bought a Zune.

Who are these people anyway? The same ones who bought Yugo's?

[moggie]

39. Conservatives!

No, not really, but I was amused by this post at zuneinsider.com:

I am willing to try your fix since the Zune, until today, has been reliable and I, oddly enough, am a Microsoft supporter (also own stock but will not get on that soap box). Still, I DO hope this is working tomorrow as it was embarrassing hearing the Microsoft ribbing from my liberal, iPod-listening friends at the health club. They thought it was funny and, of course, I had no music to drown them out. I know you are working hard. Out of curiousity, have you actually tested the 'after midnight' fix?

Some howls of pain in that thread from people who had planned to use the Zune to provide music for New Year parties. You couldn't pick a worse day for the thing to fail!

[fudge stripe cookays]

50. Um...me.

And I love it. Compared to the IPOD that I USED to have, the Zune is a dream. This is the first bit of difficulty I've had at all.

[Heddi]

53. Me too

I got my zune for free, but I love it. Before I had the Zune I tried out a friends' Ipod for a week and I don't know why, but I just didn't like it. It was easy to scratch and I just didn't really like it. I also didn't like the price tag as well.

I got my 30gb Zune for free by playing games on club.live.com. Can't beat that, and this is the FIRST problem I've had with the thing since I got it in April. I do mean THE FIRST Problem. The battery lasts for at least a week between charging and that's listening to it in the car AND at work AND while waiting for the bus AND playing games on it AND AND AND.

I think people are quick to hate it JUST because it's an MS product. I guaran-dam-tee you that if someone slapped an Apple label on the Zune, suddenly it would be the bestest fucking thing since cable TV. :eyes:

[fudge stripe cookays]

55. Yep.

I take my little charger cord to work with me, and just keep it plugged in while I'm working, so I'm never outta juice.

The graphics are nice, the sound is great, and it's hardier than my IPOD was. Like you said..too easy to scratch. And FAR heavier. The Zube is lighter weight.

[Heddi]

58. Did you get the games upgrade with the newest software release?

I love that the Zune 3.0 has games on it, which make it rock so much harder. Now I really have something to do on my 45 minute bus ride. The software update after that added a few more games as well.

I also like the Zune music software better than Itunes. I do have an ipod shuffle, and I HATED itunes. It would break my music up in to these ridiculous folders, where each song was its own folder and other people said they didn't have that problem---I checked all the settings and couldn't find any reason why it would do that. And the ipod shuffle would shuffle the same 10 songs and ignore the other 20938409238439 songs. Odd.

[fudge stripe cookays]

61. I don't really play games.

To me, they're kind of a time waster, and I don't have that kind of luxury anymore. But to each his own. Mine is totally a music device.

[eilen]

20. Could this be related to outsourcing the programming?

just wondering but why would it be any different since the entire globe agrees with leap year (but not with daylight savings....).

I think it is very sloppy and pretty stupid to have the operation of an mp3 player be tied to the calendar year.

I have an ipod nano that I often use for working out with and driving/traveling and I also have an iphone (I don't use the iphone in those instances mainly because I don't like talking on the phone during those activities, they can get my voicemail). I like the iphone except I have issues with the sound/it is set too low, I can't hear very well on it. I thought one of their updates was supposed to correct this but perhaps the just fixed it on their 3G models. I have not had great experiences with the ipod-- I have had two that crapped out. I now purchase my son a Sansa which he likes better as it has recording ability and he will record his guitar playing and when practising, riff over it.

My issue with ipods and my iphone is that I have to sync it to one particular computer or it will dump everything. I feel I should be able to transfer my music from my ipod or iphone to my laptop and if I am away from home and purchase music or an audio book on my laptop, I should be able to transfer that to my ipod/iphone without any issues. I use a Macbook and a macmini. I know there are some workarounds with the moblieme and the file transfer function but that doesn't help me when I'm out of state. I don't know why I should have to resort to that when I have an ipod/iphone. My son can put mp3's on his Sansa from any computer.

Regarding the Zune... bleh. Does anyone know the story of it's development?

[Deja Q]

23. I know that ZuneOS is a modified version of Windows CE (PocketPC, or Windows Mobile)

The odd thing is, my Smartphone PDA (AT&T Tilt6, using Windows Mobile 6.1), or my Samsung Blackjack II for that matter, haven't crashed or anything else weird.

[HillWilliam]

29. I develop for the PPC platform

specifically, Symbol barcode scanning devices. We run into this kind of platform weirdness all the time. We get two levels of bug-packages to try to code around: M$'s and Moldy-rola's. Try to get support from either. HAH!!! Documentation, schmocumentation; it's all a tissue of lies. When a doc starts out with "All you have to do is..." and you get three lines of code as an example, betcherass it (1) hasn't been tested and (2) there's no way on god's green earth you'll get the feature to work.

Can't tell you how many times I've been through this scenario: the boss wants to use a given feature. I gen up a test project, research for days, read a million blog entries that say the damn thing will never work, pore through the "test code" on M$Don'tkNow examples, the Moldyrola examples, try a million permutations and say, Hey, L..., this feature doesn't work as documented.

He says, GIVE ME THAT PROJECT. I think, okay, Mr High and Mighty (heh!). I hear cussing and muttering for a few days and after nearly a week or thereabouts, he comes back rather sheepishly and says, "you know? I think that feature doesn't work."

No shit. It's born of Microslop.

It took us three years to get our product 100% stable under every conceivable customer circumstance and we added a lot of "trick" code and, "holy shit, how did they manage that? let's tighten up/add code to prevent x, y, z" to get there.

I'm the only PPC developer in our company. There is exactly one alpha tester and there are two beta testers. We have zero software-induced problems and the only returns we get are for hardware problems. We can collect data for ANY and I mean ANY data-collection application by changing a single XML file, no reprogramming needed. We have thousands of deployments in the field and our code is DOT-approved. Microslop, with its vast resources and manpower has NO excuse.

[JCMach1]

78. My Samsung is absolutely fine as well... it's not a Windows CE problem.

[ixion]

21. with as far as programming languages have progressed since the dot.com days

and especially after the whole y2k boondoggle, this is really just unacceptable, sloppy planning and development.

Buy hey, crapping programming is the hallmark of M$.

[alfredo]

32. "Good enough" is part of the corporate culture.

If the bosses demand excellence, sooner or later their demands will be met. If all they want is a project out the door as soon as possible, the workers will slap something together to comply with the timeline, not quality standards.

[Deja Q]

22. Hey, americans are dumb - that's why all these jobs are offshored.

:crazy:

[TheEuclideanOne]

73. Nah, it is cheap labor. Cheap labor trumps quality.

The labor is so cheap offshore, that people high up in a company's organization decides to save money and go with it. Those people usually have no clue as to what is involved in developing software. They definitely don't realize all of the costs concerned with a failed project. They just see that they can hire somebody off shore for an entire day for the same rate that you can pay a skilled programmer here for one hour. From a non-technical standpoint, you can just throw more people on the project. It is only at the end of project, once it turns out to be a complete failure, when they regret it. When you add up all the costs of the failed project, starting over, opportunity costs, bringing it back from overseas, etc. it turns out cheaper. Unfortunately, the management person who decided to go cheap, is usually not held accountable.

[MilesColtrane]

25. I'm glad Microsoft doesn't make airliners.

[jmowreader]

81. A Microsoft airliner, you say?

Microsoft's development arm works under the theory that the consumer doesn't know what he wants. It's been this way for a long time.

If Microsoft were to develop an airliner, they would start with the idea the customer doesn't want to travel from Cleveland to Pittsburgh, he wants to be entertained and enriched. They would therefore install a complete multimedia PC in the back of every seat. They would install a bank of servers in the belly of the plane. They'd install mood lighting, and aromatherapy, and tables for massage therapists. A complete teppanyaki grill would be installed in the middle of the plane to provide the gourmet cuisine airlines have been wont to provide over the last few decades.

The pilots would not be neglected either. The avionics would have the look and feel of Microsoft Flight Simulator, but they'd be better since they'd be in a Real Airplane. A special box would allow pilots to choose the voice used by ATC. Everyone would love it.

Unfortunately, the engines would be included in Service Pack 1, and the presidents of the airlines would have a different view: we're not buying a plane that costs more than the Wall Street bailout but comes with no fucking engines. Are they nuts?

[onehandle]

26. What an utterly clueless error. Why people put up with using any MS product is beyond me. nt

[scytherius]

34. Yep. As I replace my computers I am buyng Mac. n/t

[RC]

27. Two questions... Three questions... Anyway first question:

1.> Why does it need a clock in the first place.

2.> How does it know to screw up when it disagrees with the real world?
(This has to be sloppy code that was never checked. No two ways about it.)

If the clock is really needed for some reason, why not just sync it to the computer when downloading stuff? No biggie, correct?

Where's the reset button. Why doesn't it have one as it obviously needs one being M$.

[scytherius]

33. What a horrifically poor company.

They only stay in business due to concessions (back door access) given to the Feds. Their products, with VERY few exceptions, are awful.

[fascisthunter]

36. for Such a Big Company, man do they Produce shit

when your bottom line becomes more important than your product and your consumer's feelings towards your products, well, you deserve to lose big time. Microsoft has been cheating customers for way too long...

[Mudoria]

37. My Zune is working. Been dropped on concrete

it's also been dropped on asphalt and still kept playing. At this point I wouldn't own anything else.

[antimatter98]

38. Microsoft can't even program a calendar/clock correctly. n/t

[Aviation Pro]

40. During one memorable meeting.....

...between "software architect" Bill Gates and one of his minions, Gates asked, "do we really pay you," with such dripping disdain that it became a legendary exchange at Microsoft.

Unfortunately, nothing has changed, Micorsoft is populated by some of the most incompetent, lazy-thinking individuals in software development and they learn nothing from their blunders.

Look for Windows 7 to be a completely inept OS.

[truthisfreedom]

60. If this is true, why does a google search for ' "do we really pay you" gates ' yields only this post

?

[Aviation Pro]

76. Because you need to read a book....

"All I Really Need to Know in Business I Learned at Microsoft" by Julie Bick. The quote can be found in chapter 3, lesson 7, page 87.

[Zech Marquis The 2nd]

42. what a piece of shit product !

why am I NOT surprised by this latest POS product from M$ :eyes: You didn't see Apple LYING to people about something named Mojave (actually just Vista with another coat of paint), and be PROUD of doing so!

[Sultana]

44. Sure, M$, sure

To hell w/ you and your iPod wanna be :D

[daleo]

46. The Zune in June plays mainly on the moon. n/t

[TheEuclideanOne]

52. Wow, alot of Microsoft haters here

Personally, I think that Microsoft is a great company, regardless of how badly Vista sucks. Personally, I have used a Mac and they are not that intuitive. I have found XP to be at least as intuitive, if not more, and that is not it's claim to fame. As far as all of those Linux folks, I have heard for years how solid Linux is and that basically once you plug in a box that runs on Linux, it will essentially be running until the company goes out of business. Then I was working in an environment where many of the boxes that I needed were Linux based and they crashed left and right. They were very few times when they were all running at the same time. The windows boxes were much more stable.

My point... there are alot of urban legends out there about why xxx is better than Microsoft. Experience has proven them false to me. Regardless of what you say, my experience has been very positive and they generally make great tools IMHO.

[WatchWhatISay]

59. I second everything you said, and

my Zune Pass lets me keep 10 songs per month, even if I quit my subscription. Can't do that with Ipod

Oh, and it also lets me mark songs I hear on its RADIO for automatic downloading. Where's Ipods radio?

[TrogL]

65. You need to learn how to actually use a computer

A UNIX box will run until it runs out of resources or the hardware dies under it. Often it's a simple matter of providing more swap or RAM. An individual app may die for reasons of its own, but the OS keeps on ticking. Other than draining a UNIX box of its resources, an individual app cannot crash the OS by design.

Conversely, because of Microsoft's bizarre memory management and the incestuous intermixing of application and OS, practically anything can crash a Windows box. Vista merely provides lots more opportunities.

If your linux boxes are crashing left and right (which I don't believe), your linux folks need a refresher course. No amount of training is going to help a Windows guy prevent a fundamentally flawed OS from blowing up in his face.

[TheEuclideanOne]

66. It did turn out the the Linux people did need a refresher course

The software that I was working on started off under the assumption that we could actually hardcode the location of the UNIX server because, according the original folks, it was almost laughable that the boxes would be down. Later on, we made the location of the server completely dynamic so that we can switch to the boxes that happened to be up that day.

As it turns out, it really was dependent on the admins of those boxes. At some point, unrelated to this issue, they both resigned. They worked at the company for over 15 years and had all sorts of certifications and the seemed to really know what they were doing. After they left, they were replaced by two others who have had things much more stable. My point is that it is not merely the OS that you can fault. Apparently, depending on the level of the admins, either environment can be very stable or can crash left and right. I happen to know the admin for the Windows servers and he is clearly not an expert (believe me), yet those boxes were amazingly reliable.

Regarding your comment on "Vista merely provides lots more opportunities." :rofl: well said.

[Cronus Protagonist]

70. I second that remark

IMHO and experience, Vista is the best OS in the world right now, although it could still be improved quite a bit. I also have had the exact same experience with Linux, and I never could understand the MAC interface.

[fascisthunter]

71. yeah... it's all about hating Microsoft, nothing to do with their bad products

[TheEuclideanOne]

72. So you hate Microsoft because of their products?

No other reason? Okay, sure. So tell me which exact product or products you had an issue with. Then tell me what product you found that was a thousand times better then it. With the exception of Vista, I have been pretty happy. With Vista, I could probably list a 1000 things and as a result I actually went back to XP.

My point was that there was a whole lot of hatin going on here over a stupid bug in a Zune. Gets me to thinking that so many people can't be this angry solely because their Zune had a bug that froze it on New Years. But hey, maybe I am wrong. So for you, apparently it is their products....so Make Your Case... You have my full attention.

[fascisthunter]

74. I don't "hate" Microsoft

I just dislike their products for the most part.

The "hate" you claim to see is all you.... I see no hate just distaste for Microsoft's products. Since you defend Microsoft, does that mean you LOVE them? Come on now...

don't make this personal

[TheEuclideanOne]

75. Just an expression, really

You might be taking it a bit too literally. At the same time, there are people who really do hate Microsoft and would never use their products for no other reason other than that they are from Microsoft.

I, personally don't love or hate them, but like their products for the most part (kind of the flipside of you). I was just taken back at how much negativity I was seeing. On top of that, it was probably only the last few years that I have had a chance to work with some of the products that people keep claiming are so great when compared to Microsoft, only to find out that they all have issues of their own.

[CRF450]

79. I'v had good luck with Vista.

Its on my gaming rig, and the laptop. Runs awesome on the gaming computer, but the laptop could use a little help at times. Both have 4gb of ram, and 64bit Home Premium, well the gaming rig is pretty much loaded with powerful hardware ;)

[CRF450]

80. Screw iPods and Zunes! Cowon is where its at!

Awesome sound quality products, and all you gotta do is drag and drop whatever files to want and not have to deal with shitty software or frustrating programs.

Want a good portable media player like an iPod Touch? Here you go... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855228028

I have this mp3 player, only mine is a 4gb version. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855228011 It can play movies and videos but the tiny screen is not practicle for that, but for music theirs nothing out their that matches in sound quality and battery life! It get gets extremely loud with the SENNHEISER ear canal headphones before distortion.