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Supreme Court Allows Suits Over "Light" Cigarette Marketing

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:36 PM
Original message
Supreme Court Allows Suits Over "Light" Cigarette Marketing
Source: New York Times

Tobacco companies suffered a defeat in the Supreme Court on Monday when the justices ruled that the companies can be sued by smokers who contend they were deceived by advertisements promoting “light” cigarettes.

In its 5-to-4 ruling, the court did not state that such advertising is, in fact, misleading. Rather, it concluded that lawsuits accusing the cigarette-makers of fraudulent conduct can proceed.

The ruling was a victory for a group of plaintiffs from Maine whose suit accused the tobacco companies of violating the Maine Unfair Trade Practices Act by fraudulently advertising that their “light” cigarettes delivered far less tar and nicotine than regular brands.

The plaintiffs contend that the tobacco companies knew that habitual smokers who turned to “light” cigarettes would typically inhale more deeply to make up for the feeling they missed from the old-fashioned unfiltered cigarettes. The suit was filed as a class-action claim on behalf of all smokers of Marlboro Lights or Cambridge Lights cigarettes, made by Philip Morris....

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/washington/16scotus.html?hp
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. only an absolute idiot would think that
but then again those same kinds of idiots think "lite" beer will make them skinny too...
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's just stupid.
The cigarettes DO contain less tar and nicotine...just as O'Douls contains less alcohol.

If people drink a case of O'Douls to get the same alcohol content as two bottles of Bass, does that mean that O'Douls is no longer a low-alcohol beer?

Actually, it's worse with "NA" beers like O'Douls. They claim "No Alcohol" when, in fact, there is a measurable alcohol content.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good. Put them out of business.
FDA, it's a drug. Label it so.


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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. The suit is absurd
Frankly, anyone who was NOT aware of this fact has been living in a cave. I've known for years - and have also smoked for years, a habit I've tried and failed to kick repeatedly.

Those who suggest outlawing cigarettes are also suggesting that we create a new "Noble experiment" similar to prohibition in which only drug lords and the black market will profit. Grand idea huh? I'm not opposed to raising the taxes on cigarettes, because I realize the crooks that run the industry are guilty of all kinds of shit. That doesn't take away from the smoker's (like myself) guilt or responsibility though.

Oh wow, I smoked light cigarettes and I inhaled deeper because I'd switched from marlboro reds to marlboro lights. OMG, I never knew such a thing could occur... I had no clue at all, honestly, none. I didn't know eating at burger king would make me fat either. Really, I didn't.

Ugh.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Actually, the cigarette companies fraudulently hid the facts about cigarettes for four decades.
Meanwhile, they overwhelmed anyone (during those four decades) who tried to bring any lawsuit with armies of attorneys. All the while, they knew cigarettes were killing people, but they lied about it. And Congress? Under the powerful arm of the tobacco lobby, could do nothing. Only when a few brave souls in Mississippi of all places took them to court, did any real change begin to happen.

So much of your post is simply false.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gosh, if only the tobacco companies could afford high-quality attorneys
The legal minds here are astonishingly astute, and you'd think that the simple declaration that the suit is "absurd" or that "only idiots" would believe cigarette company advertising would put the kibosh on these suits once and for all. Why didn't the tobacco companies hire attorneys who could make these airtight arguments? It's a puzzlement.

Unless, of course, there's just a tad bit more to these lawsuits than yields to an oversimplified analysis and that includes slightly more information and evidence than that provided by our good friends the tobacco companies. But that can't possibly be the case, so it must be that first thing.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You sure showed us
By providing no evidence (at all) to support your claim - or is it merely a speculation?

Here's what we do know:

"The plaintiffs contend that the tobacco companies knew that habitual smokers who turned to “light” cigarettes would typically inhale more deeply to make up for the feeling they missed from the old-fashioned unfiltered cigarettes."

(Now, based on this snip and not on whatever vast evidence of illegal activity *really* makes up the story... evidence, I might point out, that I have not seen)

Of course they knew. I know, I'm assuming that you know, and that everyone who has a clue is well aware of this. I have not claimed to be - and certainly am not a legal mind. Common sense is another matter, you could argue that my smoking habit clearly indicates a lack - and fair enough, it does. Yet it is obvious to anyone who has smoked (and even most who haven't) that switching to lights can lead one to smoke more, or to inhale more deeply to make up for the lesser amount of nicotine.

How is any of this surprising? Of course the tobacco companies were aware, so, I would imagine, was the general population. It is similar to filing suit against a fast food restaurant because "you didn't know eating there might make you fat". Seriously.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You haven't showed anyone anything.
There doesn't seem to be anything fundamentally self-evident in smoking light cigarettes and necessarily smoking more. The court has ruled. Now let it go to a jury of peers, and let them decide the facts based on the evidence.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It was not my intention
to show anyone anything. Neither was it my intention to waste time replying to condescending remarks. Rather, I was sharing my opinion, a pretty common practice I think. Frankly, I don't care what you think of it, and frankly, I'm entitled to share it. As someone who personally went from marlboro reds to lights, I think I might have some basic understanding of the issue at hand.

Of course the jury will decide the facts based on evidence - where did I say otherwise? Where did I say I would not permit them to?

God forbid anyone should point out their own thoughts in regards to an issue, particularly if those particular thoughts are unpopular.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. The lawsuit I worked on
We're back to the "what did they know and when did they know it" question. From the lawsuit I worked on, and in the preliminary stages only, here's what I recall:

First, cigarettes are not regulated as a consumer item by the Food and Drug Administration. A little odd, to be sure, but the tobacco companies lobbied very hard for many years, arguing that consumers didn't actually "consume" cigarettes, and at the time they won the ruling, they persuaded Congress that there was no "drug" involved with smoking. Of course, this was a lie, and the tobacco companies knew it. I don't recall whether it was 1959 or 1962, but an internal Philip Morris memorandum acknowledged that their research into nicotine and its effect on human beings showed that nicotine did indeed have pharmacological effects. Between their own departments, Philip Morris freely acknowledged that nicotine was addictive and that if this was public knowledge, their fiction that smokers were free agents who chose to smoke and keep smoking couldn't be sustained. So for nearly half a century, the tobacco companies obfuscated the issue, muddied the waters, and promoted the fiction that smokers were victims of their own choice.

Throughout the 1960s, the tobacco companies conducted extensive research on nicotine and its addictive qualities. First through the Center for Tobacco Research and then through the Tobacco Institute, Philip Morris, R.J. Reynolds, Liggitt and the other tobacco companies paid for research that showed them just how much nicotine was necessary to keep smokers smoking. One disturbing discovery they made was that they could manufacture a de-nicotinized cigarette. But without nicotine, smokers made the unfortunate "choice" to quit smoking. That is, the addicts they had created were no longer getting their drug, so smokers were able to quit. Denicotinized cigarettes never got to market due to unspecified difficulties - like making it too easy for smokers to quit smoking. The threshold, they found, was about 1 mg of nicotine per cigarette would keep enough smokers smoking to remain profitable. It also maintained enough smokers to replace those who euphemistically "aged out" of the smoking demographic (tobacco company speak for smokers who either became too sick to keep smoking, or who died).

While not regulated by the FDA, the tobacco companies couldn't avoid some oversight by the Federal Trade Commission, which was given authority to standardize the levels of tar and nicotine in cigarettes. But the tobacco companies were never ones to let any defeat stop them for long. Early on, the FTC and the tobacco companies had their own versions of measuring tar and nicotine, further confusing the issue of just how much of a hit any particular cigarette or brand was going to give a smoker. It wasn't until the late 1960s that the FTC exercised full control over the testing methods and mechanical measuring of tar and nicotine. The tobacco companies publicly protested, but privately planned how to subvert the FTC's "full" control over cigarette labeling.

First came the advertising campaigns, which set out to deliberately gull the public into thinking that lower nicotine cigarettes were safer than "full flavor" cigarettes. In myriad ways, official (through advertising) and unofficial (rumors and innuendo), tobacco companies sold the smoking public on the fiction that lower tar meant less harm to a smoker's health.

But there were other gimmicks. The tobacco companies knew that the FTC smoking machines took a regulation puff of a cigarette, and measured the tar and nicotine in each puff to arrive at their number for tar and nicotine. One of the gimmicks the tobacco companies came up with was to manipulate the filters and the wrapping of its cigarettes. Smoking machines didn't hold cigarettes, but smokers did. By putting a circle of holes in the cigarette wrapping where the tobacco met the filter, the tobacco companies able to achieve a low nicotine reading from the smoking machines. Smokers, however, by holding the cigarette in their fingers, covered these holes, bringing more nicotine into their systems. As you note, smokers also took heavier puffs of light cigarettes, delivering more nicotine than the standard puff the smoking machines did.

Smoking machines, being machines, also did not mimic the human body. Tobacco companies found that by putting additives in tobacco such as benzene, formaldehyde and ammonia, they could improve the delivery of nicotine. A cigarette certified light by the FTC method could actually deliver substantially more nicotine to a human smoker due to the reactive nature of the combination of chemicals in the cigarette, a reaction not available to the FTC machines.

For decades, the cigarette companies not only knew this, but manipulated their product, public opinion, and the agencies that were supposed to oversee them. When caught, they fell back on the fiction that "everybody" knew that all this was going on, and that if some of the millions of people they lied to believed them, then it was the fault of those smokers, and not the companies that lied to them. They've been so good at lying, that they've even convinced a fair number of smokers that they smoke due to their own free choice. While the decision to start smoking may be up to the individual, the matter of "choice" quickly disappears (almost like a puff of smoke) once the addiction to nicotine has been formed. And the tobacco companies are masters at convincing young people to take up the "habit," which is no habit at all, but an addiction. Through advertising, product placement, peer pressure, and depictions of the "glamor" associated with smoking (to name just four methods, and very powerful methods they are), cigarette companies are able to replace the smokers who age out of the population.

It's been about six years since I worked on the preliminary research for a light cigarette lawsuit, and in the meantime there has probably been more evidence that has been unearthed or pried out of the blood-stained claws of the tobacco companies, but that's what I recall. There was more than this, of course, but I don't remember all of it; it seems, however, to be sufficient to me and now apparently to the Supreme Court, that there is enough evidence for a lawsuit to proceed.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Perhaps I interpret things differently
To me, it would seem to make sense that if you cut back on the amount of nicotine, you might smoke more or inhale more deeply to compensate for the loss. For example - when I had started smoking after the death of a loved one, I started out with ultra lights, one night I ran out of them and a friend gave me one. Marlboro red. Minutes after smoking it I had to lean back against the wall (we were outside his house) to recover from the dizziness.

Years later, going from reds to lights had a different effect. I've noticed that I tend to cough less and get less head aches, among other things. Perhaps my personal experience in that is unique, but I don't think so, not from what I've heard from other smokers. (Of course it hasn't really significantly improved my health, as without them I'd be a dozen times better off.)

Clearly that would indicate that there is a difference (between full and light cigarettes), at least in the body's immediate response.

Are they all ultimately vile, potentially deadly poison? Of course, addictive, vile, potentially deadly poison, and I'm a fool for smoking. But I knew all of these things to begin with.

That said, you seem to have more knowledge on the subject than I, so I'll try to cool it. What annoys me, is the thought that some people are going to sue the tobacco companies based on this, winning themselves potentially millions of dollars. Meanwhile, to compensate, the prices will again be raised and it will be those of us who remain addicted who have to pay them. That or quit, which despite my best efforts, I've failed to do.

My knowledge of the subject is based for the most part, on personal experience. It really would shock me though, to learn that any smokers honestly believed cutting back to "light" cigarettes was really less dangerous overall. You get smaller amounts only if you smoke in the same manner you did before without adding more or taking deeper puffs.
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