Coulter Attacks Cleland's War Record

[Gman]

<snip>
Columnist and television commentator Ann Coulter, in a column published this week, said former Senator Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam, is no war hero.
,
,
,
Coulter countered that Cleland is no Vietnam war hero, just a victim of a tragic, accidental grenade explosion who plays up his amputations for political gain.

“If Cleland had dropped a grenade on himself at Fort Dix rather than in Vietnam, he would never have been a U.S. Senator in the first place. Maybe he’d be the best pharmacist in Atlanta,” Coulter said in her column, published on February 11.

“He didn't ‘give his limbs for his country,’ or leave them ‘on the battlefield,’” Coulter said. “There was no bravery involved in dropping a grenade on himself with no enemy troops in sight.”
</snip>

This bitch's mouth knows absolutely no bounds. She has no decency. She's sick and is still allowed to be a danger to herself and others.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=42941

[AngryYoungMan]

1. Is she TRYING to screw Bush over?

From a Republican strategy standpoint, this is just NOT the week to be picking on any elected official who actually performed combat duty. It just emphasizes how bad Bush looks by comparison. Let her keep screeching. It's good for our cause.

[Guaranteed]

19. Yup...are the soldiers who died in Iraq out of combat

equally non-heroic?

Stupid thing to say, Dan. REAL stupid.

[Zhade]

63. This is going to get me flamed...

...but the soldiers in Iraq who died in combat aren't necessarily heroic.

Brave, yes. Courageous under fire, yes. To be admired for their willingness to sacrifice their lives for a greater good, yes.

However, the invasion and occupation of Iraq is most certainly not a greater good.

I am not blaming the soldiers or wishing them harm. I protested before the war because I, like millions around the world, knew that the soldiers were to be used as pawns in a dirty, horrible, illegal war that they had no business fighting and dying in.

There is no heroism in illegally invading and occupying a country that posed zero threat to us - a fact known before the invasion.

I may upset some people with this observation. I speak up on this only because I think we must remember that the soldiers in Iraq are not there for heroic purposes. We cannot let ourselves forget that this 'war' was wrong. Some of them ARE heroes, no question - the ones who truly help rebuild the country that they helped destroy show true moral fiber. Likewise, those who go out of their way to avoid committing war crimes are heroic.

But overall, most of the soldiers haven't been given a chance to do something truly heroic. Rather, they are being used, and for that reason, I WANT THEM HOME NOW.

[fearnobush]

33. If the Repukes can wedge Dem's as poking fun

at the National Guard by slamming Chimpy on his proven act of elitist AWOL. Then it's time to prove to the world how the established right wing pundits like Coulter really feel about military service hero's. The majority of the media Repukes only prove that they absolutely have no regard for our solders. Ann Coulter proves this once again. If the Republican party ever wants to have any favor ability from service men and women again - they'd do better to gag the Coulters and Hannity's.

[loudnclear]

54. AND the war raging in Iraq is not for freedom and democracy at home!

Why doesn't she say that while she's at it? This was a selective illegal, immoral invasion of a sovereign nation that has been "double-speaked" into a war for freedom, liberation, of Iraqis and protection and security at home. How ridiculous. Bush should be tried for treason, impeached and sent to prision.

[muchacho]

2. oh my god

what a horrid, bitter and sad cu*t.

[aquart]

21. Hey! Your mother had one.

Besides, it's a very very very old word, probably a degradation of the Egyptian word for wife, queen.

[Occulus]

52. Aside from that,

using it to describe her is an insult to....

Oh, nevermind. :)

[iamjoy]

3. Are you surprised?

This is the woman who said (after 9-11):
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"

This is the woman who wrote a whole book accusing Democrats of treason.

This is the woman who said snippy things about John Edwards' son dying. Senator Edwards has tried not to campaign on it, but apparently, Ms. Coulter thinks that means he should pretend it never happened.

Still, we have free speech in this country, so Ann Coulter has a right to be as nasty as she wants. I think she is an outstanding representative of the Republican party.

[Paschall]

35. Coulter has crossed the yellow line many times

Advocating violence ("killing their leaders") ain't protected by free speech. Try publishing a similar remark about your boss or your wife or your kids' teachers.

This thing belongs in a psychiatric unit in a federal prison.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grasswire]

4. her column was in GD on 2/11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1112564

So I guess she's getting some attention for it.

[kanrok]

5. Another example of why Ann The Man

deserves absolutely no consideration for any of the drivel that spews from her gaping maw. Why on earth does anyone take anything she has to say seriously? Why does this hateful, spiteful, little man have any forum within which to speak? Interesting that she thinks Chimpy McAwol was a "hero" for avoiding Viet Nam, but finds Max Cleland to be a "victim."

[flowomo]

6. she just does it

to sell the talking dolls.... since her writing career is...shall we say.... not paying the bills

[muchacho]

7. if she were a man....

I'd punch her.

Fuc* it, I'll punch her anyway.

[murielm99]

37. Don't bother.

Someone would say you are not a gentleman. I would do it for you! So would many other women here.

Wait! I thought she was a man. Isn't she a man?

[muchacho]

44. What a dame

You'd punch the vile peroxide toothpick for me?

I can't tell you how happy that makes me....

[mth44sc]

8. Look here

for a beautiful slap down of the witch

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_tbogg_archive.html#107657374803670239

[Reverend_Smitty]

9. The Devil

Her soul is truly black...One can't help but wonder if she truly believes the bull-@#$% she spews. If so she must be the devil!!!!

[JoFerret]

10. Ignore her

It's all an act. She has no values, no scuples and does it for the reaction it provokes. She doesn't believe a word of the tripe she tosses about. A mere attention seeker of the worst variety - common and garden.

[Thor_MN]

17. If any freeper had the required ten foot pole to poke her with,

I think they would have to keep a close watch on the spawn to be affected by Munchasen(sp?) by proxy. She is so needy of attention and so willing to do anything to get it.

[leesa]

11. This woman is mentally ill. She strives for Daddy's approval all her

life but I bet he would despise her for what she is doing. I hope America's real vets clean her clock.

[kanrok]

12. Oh, yeah, Dan must have forgot that Max won a Silver Star

4 days before he lost his limbs. Here's an article Dan should read before he apologizes to Max: www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20021026/opinion/372490.html

[DenverDem]

25. Hey, just because she has man hands (et al)

don't be dissing a good name.

Thanks,
Dan (aka Denver Dem)

[SlavesandBulldozers]

13. wow

with enemies like these who needs friends? she virtually does all the conversion work for us.

[Fovea]

69. She performs a public service

by showing the honest, shameless hatred of the NeoCon Right.
It is corporatism without a human face.

[bluestateguy]

14. Republican strategist repudiates her comments

Rusty Paul, a Georgia Republican Party strategist, said Coulter crossed the line with her comments.

“You can't take away from Max Cleland his record of service to this country and the sacrifice that he's made, regardless of the circumstances. To me, that's out of bounds to talk about that,” he said.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

15. Ann Coulter is no respectable columnist.

If the grenade in question had felled a conservative, she'd be singing his praises. Most Americans agree that a hero is a hero regardless of their political affiliation. Ms. Coulter would have us believe that heroes come in only one flavor...republican.

Her work is, at best, appropriate for sleazy tabloid magazines. The conservative machine is getting just what it deserves for putting no-account spin artists like Coulter and Limbaugh into the limelight.

Coulter's day of reckoning will come...

[murielm99]

38. A hero is a hero, regardless of political affiliation.

I agree. But remember what they did to one of their own, McCain?

They could care less about anyone else's honor. They only want power. They will sacrifice anyone for that power.

They may officially distance themselves from Coulter, but they are loving it. Bastards!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

53. McCain didn't fit their mould...

You're absolutely right. But I don't think he was ever really "one of their own". He's too interested in working with people on the moderate platform.

The neocons are like the fundies who consider themselves to be the only Christians. They can't officially distance themselves from Coulter or Limbaugh. When they try, their infrastructure will crumble; because they can't survive without the votes of the morons that these cheesy spin doctors appeal to.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

58. McCain would not play along with the BFEE and that's why...

his heroism didn't matter to DAS REICH WING.

Cleland isn't playing with the BFEE therefore he will be
assaulted by DAS REICH WING for not playing along.

All Democrats will be attacked for having their own minds.

[Zhade]

67. Are you forgetting McCain's selection to the "WMD Commission"?

After he was picked by b*sh, one of the first things McCain said was that he didn't think b*sh manipulated or lied about the intelligence!

He DOESN'T play ball with the BFEE? Since when?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

75. We shall see...

I'm not convinced that McCain's bought and paid for. If he, as a republican, plays a role in exposing the truth, his image as a potential presidential candidate will be enhanced.

[UpInArms]

42. now that was an oxymoron

If the grenade in question had felled a conservative,

have any of them ever seen the front lines?

[PartyPooper]

16. She is pure evil.

Avoid her like the plague!

:evilfrown:

[Voltaire99]

18. Coulter's wrong. But she's not the only one.

Sure, the blonde attack dog has overstepped the bounds of good taste. Tasteful people don't quibble over whether fire from the enemy or accidental grenade mishandling constitutes "heroism." Decency calls us to respect mortal risk and sacrifice, particularly so when such service in Vietnam was usually compulsory. We don't tell paraplegics, "Your sacrifice wasn't heroic enough," unless we want to sound as pathetic as the pampered Coulter.

But taste is also a sentimental measure. In truth, Cleland is a victim before being a hero. He was victimized by his government and the citizenry who cavalierly sent him off to kill in an unjust war. To help assuage our national guilt over the injustice, we call him a hero.

Our national guilt! Do Democrats still remember that, in this season of excitement over having their very own war heroes? Kerry and Cleland fought in a war that murdered millions of southeast Asians--a war that dwarfs the injustice of the Iraq invasion. Whatever acts of heroism occurred in Vietnam, the larger context is anything but heroic.

Vietnam is a graveyard of American criminality, not a pedestal on which now to erect election year tributes to American heroism.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. Excuse me...two minor points...

1. Cleland volunteered to go to Vietnam, as did Kerry.

2. Neither man was victimized by his government or his citizenry.

Yes, I agree that Vietnam was wrong, but both men did all that they could to serve honorably, unlike the cowardly squatter in the White House.

[Snazzy]

41. Thank you ...

Vietnam, as divisive and defining a conflict as this democracy has ever faced is indeed being swept under the carpet somehow. All the while it should be informing the present. Iraq ain't over, and however likely the abilities of our technologically advanced and uberfunded military makes that problem seem resolvable (or a containable quagmire in perpetuity perhaps--like Afghanistan maybe too), what next? What next adventure? When do we know we have fully submerged over our heads, when are we off the deep end?

There is a real danger, as Voltaire99 adroitly points out, in trivializing that key failing of our government and foreign policy--reducing it to some sound-bite campaign issue.

Vietnam isn't that. It's not simple. Most people will never understand what happened, and I'm not sure I do, though hopefully I'm not most people.

If we could, in a complicated way, just like Vietnam, simultaneously examine the massive foreign policy failure of Vietnam (and who caused that--same assholes I think), while at the same time getting our props by saying who really put up, fine. But it's the first part of that equation that, in a rational world, ought to matter more.

But, fuck A.C.!

[aquart]

20. That should play well with the military.

More, Ann. More.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. I sent the following email to Jon Shirek...

Jon...

You owe your readers an apology for publishing the completely depraved comments made by Ann Coulter about Max Cleland. Rather than get into a long discussion about what I personally think of Ann Coulter, I'm passing along this link for your review:

"Cleland's campaign manager clarifies senator's Army service"
<http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20021026/opinion/372490.html>

I trust that once you've read the article linked above that you will have the common decency to publicly apologize to Max Cleland. As a former officer in the U. S. Navy, I honor the bravery of Max Cleland in Vietnam, and the terrible personal sacrifice with which he has had to deal with over the years.

Conversely, I utterly deplore the 1972 AWOL/desertion status of the man who currently, and illegally, occupies the White House. Lest you, or anyone else forgets, he was AWOL when Americans were still dying in Vietnam.

Thank you, and good evening.

[ljm2002]

55. Bingo!

This is the correct response IMNSHO.

The most effective response is to publicize Mr. Cleland's DOCUMENTED service record. This opens the door for comparison of his service record with that of Mr. Bush, and the facts* will speak for themselves, loud and clear. This in turn opens the door to a discussion of the dirty campaign that was run against Mr. Cleland. Perhaps some voters in that neck of the woods will wake up to the fact that they were sold one version of the story, and they never saw the other version. I for one didn't know that Cleland was awarded a Silver Star. Kind of speaks for itself as to whether he was ever on the battlefield or ever exhibited bravery or went above and beyond the call of duty... As compared to Bunnypants, who sat and read a story about a goat for 20 minutes while the most horrific attack on our country since Pearl Harbor continued apace. Oh yes, let's just start lookin' at those service records. Bring it on!

We should also ask Republicans and conservatives to go on record and publicly reject these remarks and others she has made. If they will not do so, we can assume that she really is speaking for them, and act accordingly during debates and in TV ads. Take one of her more outrageous statements and point out that Republican Candidate X, was asked and *refused to repudiate* these extreme and dangerous comments -- do you really want to elect an extremist to represent you in Washington? Do you really want someone who supports tactics that smear a bona fide war hero with the medals to prove it?

* Note on "facts": there are known knowns (Cleland's service record and the medals he received, as well as how the grenade came to blow off three of his limbs); there are known unknowns (what was really on the rest of that conveniently torn piece of paper trying to pass muster as a "military record"?); and there are unknown unknowns (which records are missing, and why? of the others who served with that unit, is there anyone else whose records are missing like W's (besides James Bath, that is)? the Unknown Guardsman who served with GW back in '72 is ... ? ).

[Barkley]

24. Who is Coulter to say who is a war hero?

Since when did Anne Coulter become a definitive expert on what constitutes a 'war hero'?

According to the article: "Cleland was wounded picking up a grenade that someone else had dropped."

Perhaps his actions saved the lives of other GIs that would have otherwise been injured?

[Desperadoe]

26. Make copies

and pass them out to all the bartenders at the VFW, American Legion etc. Ask them to place them at the bar for the customers to read.

Any customers who don't know who Ann Coulter is will find out quickly.

[AP]

27. She's picking on him to show that even Dems who served in Vietnam

can be portrayed as weak on national security.

It's a test run for Kerry.

[coldwatercyn]

28. No more talking head shows

No wonder she has been missing on the news circuit, when was the last time anyone say her on television?

[belle]

Sounds about right. Still can't help but think it's a dumb move...

...to start with someone who's lost three limbs; to most normal people, this is repulsive behavior, no matter how the person lost his limbs.

unless of course the real goal was just to feed her bottomless attention hole, in which case, well, yeah, it worked.

[MinnFats]

29. We need a list of publications/websites etc. that carry her fetid garbage

and then we need to bombard them.
it's true she goes off the hyperbole meter on purpose, but she is like a rabid dog.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[wellst0nev0ter]

31. I Dunno

Still doesn't top Al Gore/Grey Davis are the best arguments in favor of friendly fire :grr:

[koopie57]

32. If Mr. Cleland asked me too

I'd get that bitch and kick the shit out of her for him.

[lebkuchen]

34. What is Coulter's claim to fame? Why does anybody read her?

She's not a good writer, she rants like some sandwich-boarded bible-belter on the corner of any major city, and yet she gets quoted all the time.

Why? Ignore her, like any other looney whose address is a wharf.

[phrenzy]

36. c0nt

I'm sorry - I've never even used the word toward a female before - but if any human being ever deserved the title 'cunt' this woman is it. I don't even think it has to do with her being female - she is just simply a cunt.

That said - this is not anything out of character for her. I think she's starting to just get more and more out there - and you can tell she is just trying to grab headlines and get people talking by making 'shocking' comments to 'drive liberals nuts' - That's all she's trying to do.


Let her keep trying.

[0007]

39. Larry Flint need to get a hold of this broad.

[KayLaw]

40. She just needs help

It's hard to judge her as I would anyone else because she's clearly mentally ill. I read " Blinded by the Right " and some of her ravings and anyone should be able to see she's just plain touched. It is frustrating that people who should care about her let her go untreated. Her cries for help just get louder and louder but the right wingers cruelly parade her around like their prize pig. It's wrong!

[theHandpuppet]

43. Y'know...

I despise Ann Coulter as much as anyone here (if not moreso), but to see the entire misogynic lexicon being bandied about here on DU -- "witch", "broad, "cunt", "bitch" et al -- with such frequency in threads such as these is making ME feel as if all women are, when it comes right down to it, still held in contempt in a not-so-subliminal way.

If the object of such scorn were a person of color, or gay, or of a different ethnic/religious group, would folks here feel so free to use such loaded slurs? Certainly we can be a bit more creative with our epithets here at DU, doncha think?

Sorry to stray from the topic at hand, but this issue is really making me uncomfortable here and I find myself becoming increasingly distracted from the actual thread topic and much less willing to participate in the discourse.

[0007]

45. Is Ann Coulter "Holier Than Thou" ?

Expression of Speech is the American way -

[chillwindblowing]

71. she makes my skin crawl

and she doesn't have a clue . time will tell ........ it always has.....O8)

[Speed8098]

47. "would folks here feel so free to use such loaded slurs?"

What do you expect people to say?

It seems to me that she is the one who drew first blood. These comments are not directed at all women, hell, they're not even directed at a woman. They're directed at Ann Coulter.

When you are confronted with someone as vile as this, you have a tendency to try to find vile words to describe them.

I think some latitude in this case is in order.

Certainly we can be a bit more creative with our epithets here at DU, doncha think?

Maybe if you would provide some examples of FREE SPEECH that doesn't offend you, someone may take heed and find new words to describe this manlike, hateful beast that calls herself a woman.

Now, relax, take a deep breath and realize that these descriptions are about the bitch in question, not women in general.

[0007]

48. Very well said!

[FlaGranny]

51. These words also make me uncomfortable

and I'm not likely to indulge in threads that use them. I don't like them, but I do notice that we use words all the time like "prick" and "dickhead" and other male bashing words. The thing is, these male words just don't seem to have the same repulsive factor. I just wonder why that is. Do we just naturally get more repulsed at female body parts???? If so, why is that?

[MrsMatt]

60. I have to agree

because they are not only offensive and demeaning, but they are also vulgar. Too often we resort to cheap epithets.

I prefer to think of Coulter as "Blondi", who was Hitler's favorite German Shepherd.

[belle]

61. Ooh, I like "Blondi."

"Hateful fuckwit" works for me too, of course.

[MrsMatt]

68. thanks

I think it sums her up nicely

i.e.
slavish devotion to a fascist dictator
female canine

[JoFerret]

74. However....

...can she not be attacked for her vileness in non gender-specific terms? I think so. This outburst of misogynist language/ abuse is unpleasant reading.

[coldwatercyn]

65. y'know

as a woman, I'll just start with liar.

[snippy]

46. How very republican.

Democrats should use this column in advertising and fund raising. They also should get someone in the media to ask Bush about it.

Ann Coulter's Usually Not Truthful.

[kstewart33]

49. Can we all take the pledge?

To stop reading her? I haven't read her in years, until I saw an excerpt from the Cleland column, because I couldn't believe it.

Stop reading her guys. She loves it when you rant and rave about what she writes. When you read her, she's winning. And she's not worth it.

[indypaul]

50. The very exmaple of

"It is always best to be thought an idiot, than to
open ones mouth and remove all doubt."

[truth2power]

56. Ann Coulter is mentally ill. n/t

[Mr_Lefty]

57. She is the Corvair of the right

Unstable at any speed.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mobuto]

62. One Silver Star for Gallantry, one Bronze Star and one Soldier's Medal

more than Ann Coulter earned in Vietnam.

Ann brings gross dishonor upon herself and upon those who would associate with her.

[young_at_heart]

66. Why would ANYONE buy her books?

That is what mystifies me.....such a disgusting human being has an audience???

[jmowreader]

70. The question is "does anyone buy her books?"

That lil' asterisk beside her sales rank (meaning large bulk sales) is the tipoff. Individuals don't buy her books. Richard Mellon Scaife buys a truckload of her books then gives them away as premiums when you sign up for Newsmax. Join the Conservative Book Club and get a Coulter, a Savage, a Hannity, an O'Reilly and a Limbaugh for 99 cents plus shipping.

No one "buys" her books, if "buy" is defined as "bring $16.98 to the bookstore and leave with 180 sheets of toilet paper in an attractive, easy-to-handle hardbound dispenser." They get them free with every box of Conserv-Os, the new oat cereal from Kelloggs. Conserv-Os contain fifteen times the fiber of any other cereal; feed delicious Conserv-Os to your Republican husband every day and he'll re-register as a Democrat in 45 days or less. Guaranteed.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

72. Leave the poor man alone.

Don't you see like David Duke all he's got is his hate. And oh yeah, that huge Adam's apple.

[Catherine Vincent]

73. I wonder what she would say if she met him face to face?

She'd probably run and hide like a good little conservative toady.

[flaminbats]

76. Even if he spent his entire life in a hospital bed, crying about Nam...

he would be just another deadweight, do-nothing cripple to those creeps.

Republicans don't really care how you do or what ultimately happens to you, just obey orders..keep your damned mouth shout and they might tolerate you! :tinfoilhat: