Russia warns West not to meddle in ex-Soviet Union

[inanna]

Source: AP

MOSCOW (AP) -- Russia's foreign minister warned the West on Wednesday against meddling in its backyard, saying the U.S. and European countries must not advance their interests in the former Soviet Union at Russia's expense.

Sergey Lavrov told a group of foreign business leaders that Russia has no monopoly on relations with neighboring former Soviet republics, and said Moscow understands that the United States and European Union have legitimate interests in the region.

But, he said, the U.S. and EU must forge relations with former Soviet republics "through legal, understandable and transparent methods," Lavrov said. "Behind-the-scenes meddling only creates a crisis situation. One must respect the people of these nations and give them the right to choose their own fate."

Already long-deteriorating ties between Moscow and the West were badly damaged by Russia's August war with Georgia, a small ex-Soviet republic that has enjoyed strong U.S. backing and is seeking NATO membership.


Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_US?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-12-10-07-11-48

[fla nocount]

1. Sounds reasonable to me. n/t

[Maineman]

18. And to me as well

In fact, it sounds better than reasonable. It sounds great.

[ixion]

2. "Russia's August war with Georgia" is incorrect

It has been well documented that Georgia was the aggressor in this case. If Haiti, say, or Cuba were to act as Georgia did, I'm sure the US response would be quite similar.

[cstanleytech]

3. You'll agree though that Russia needs to backoff and let former

Soviet countries seek NATO membership if they desire it and not use threats and intimidation against them for doing so, right?

[ixion]

4. I think we need to mind our own business

and stop trying to piss off Russia, just 'cause we can.

[cstanleytech]

6. I wont argue that because I happen to agree it does sometimes seem to happen however my question was

if you agree that Russia needs to backoff and let those nations make their own decisions on things like joining NATO, so do you agree atleast that Russia needs to do so?

[ixion]

9. I guess I don't see it as that black and white

It's not as simple as "Russia backing off." Russia is defending their own interests, and that is to be expected. The US has a bad habit of toying with small countries like Georgia, and NATO is a geo-political arm of that toying, so it doesn't surprise me that Russia balks at Georgia joining NATO. Our response would be equally as hysterical if the converse were true.

And, see, Georgia is not truly "making their own decisions." There's all sorts of backroom bartering going on driven by the US. The US has strategic military reasons for wanting Georgia in NATO, and Russia is calling BS. I don't see the problem really.

[endarkenment]

22. We would have a shit fit if Mexico or Canada

decided to join in a military alliance with Russia or China. We declared a special interest in all foreign affairs of american states back in 1823. Why exactly do we think other states do not have similar regional rights?

[cstanleytech]

26. "We"? You might, I however could care less if they did.

[endarkenment]

29. 'we' as in our elected representatives.

but you knew that.

[LiberalEsto]

12. I think Russia needs to mind its own damn business

and let its former unwilling captives run their own nations.

My family is from Estonia. I have close relatives there. The Estonians suffered a great deal under Soviet rule. Their language could not be taught in schools. They were denied any kind of high positions in government and other fields -- everything was dominated by the Russians. They were prohibited from flying their own flag or singing their national anthem. They were barred from attending church. They were even barred from celebrating Christmas, for heaven's sake!

After WW2, the Russians shipped tens of thousands of Estonians off to Siberia as forced laborers, never to return to their homes again. Meanwhile the Russians sent tens of thousands of Russians to live in Estonia in a planned "Russification" of the country. These Russians got all the good jobs.

When the Chernobyl nuclear disaster happened, Russians forcibly dragged men from countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia and other captive nations to do the cleanup that they themselves were unwilling to risk. They came for my cousin. When the soldiers knocked on the front door, he slipped out the back door, fled, and lived in the woods until the soldiers left the area. Why should he sacrifice his life to clean up Chernobyl? Estonians (and people in the other nations) had nothing to do with creating that disaster, but since the Russians viewed them as inferior people, they were supposed to die while cleaning up the Russians' mess. Russians consider themselves superior to Estonians and the others, much like the Nazis considered themselves the "master race."

Estonians consider themselves an indigenous people, and identify with Native Americans and others whose lands were stolen and cultures eradicated by Europeans. Russia has no right whatsoever to impose its brutal system on my people.

[Odin2005]

16. A-fucking-MEN. n/t.

[TankLV]

32. Yep - they did this in the Ukraine as well...

and in all these places, they BANNED the local languages and customs.

So that when these places all gained their independence, all those "poor russians" were suddenly "victimized" by the "horrible" (insert nationality here) people when they insisted on restoring their national integrity and language and culture...

It was Russian Colonialism only WORSE...

And too many here were so concerned for these carpetbaggers...

[freedomnorth]

33. Chernobyl is in Ukraine. n/t.

[pork medley]

35. .

[TheLastMohican]

43. what uber crap

who told you those idiotic stories?
How can Russians drag anybody if Chernobyl is in Ukraine? Who is telling those urban legends?

I should ask the locals as I am currently working on the Chernobyl site, I might find quite a few leftover estonians, methinks.

Nope, only ukrainians and a few EU and US folks over here.

[pampango]

5. That sounds consistent with the Russian FM's statement that "(o)ne must respect the people of these

the people of these nations and give them the right to choose their own fate."

The obvious problem, though, is that when a country chooses the path it wishes to follow either Russia or the US is likely to squawk that this choice is the result of the other side meddling, whether it is true or not.

[Odin2005]

8. No use arguing with the Georgia-hating Russia-apologists.

They see everything as a neocon conspiracy. :eyes:

[ixion]

11. huh?

what the hell are you talking about? I am neither "Georgia hating" nor a "Russian apologist". I simply call'em as I see'em. I've no fondness nor dislike for either.

Get real.

[Odin2005]

15. During Russia's invasion of Georgia there were plenty of DUers shitting on Georgia and...

...and basically saying Georgia's bad behavior with regards to South Ossetia make's Russia's Imperialistic behavior OK essentially by using the "he (US) does it too" excuse".

Wasn't aiming my post specifically at you.

[ixion]

17. fair enough

thanks for clarifying. :hi:

[AlphaCentauri]

19. Why do they have to be members of NATO?

what about Canada a new state of Russia?

[cstanleytech]

21. You do realize I was using NATO merely as one example, right?

[Odin2005]

25. He didn't say they HAD to. He said if they WANT to.

And if they are free of Russian intimidation I'm sure they will choose NATO membership for the same reason the former Warsaw Pact countries have joined or want to join, to protect themselves from Russia.

*points to the post by the Estonian poster*

[AlphaCentauri]

31. What about NATO intimidation?

are they intimidating those states to become part of their alliance, what about them making their own Union? Why is has to be the Russians or NATO?

[Odin2005]

41. What NATO indimidation?

I'm not seeing any.

[JVS]

38. Hell no. I wouldn't even invite them into NATO

NATO has outlived its function. It was designed to encircle Russia. Unless NATO starts acting like it has a purpose other than encircling Russia, it is making a potential friend into an enemy

[ret5hd]

46. Only if we agree that countries covered under the Monroe Doctrine...

may freely seek reciprocal alliances without us using threats and intimidation against them for doing so.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Hmm

Get what you are saying . . .

But if Cuba rolled into Haiti? Our country would ignore it.

If Haiti rolled into Cuba (not likely)? We probably WOULD punish Haiti (our government has relished in demeaning and placing those people into sub-human category) and let a ton of Cuban refugees into the country.

Sorry - our treatment of Haiti 'boat people' sickens me. And I have quite a few friends whose families fled in the 1980's. I think our policy is "Haitians = Non-Human".

[ixion]

39. Haiti was just an example of a near-by nation

I agree with you completely that our policy towards Haiti in inhumane.

[Odin2005]

7. Translation: "don't tell us to not treat Ukraine and Georgia like our vassals"

Fuck Russia. This shit makes me want Ukraine and Georgia to get into NATO and the U even more. Russia needs to stop treating the other former Soviet states like vassals and start threating them like sovereign states.

[Nihil]

10. Hah!

Yes, Russia should start acting more like America and
> start threating them like sovereign states.

We're very familiar with how the US "threats" sovereign states ...

:-P

[Odin2005]

14. Russia going "you do it too" is not an legitimate excuse.

[endarkenment]

23. Why is that?

Why is our behavior exceptional?

[Odin2005]

24. It isn't. You mised the point.

The point is that just because one great power does misdeeds does not make it right for everyone to copy said great power's behavior. criticize it, don't fucking copy it, or use it as an excuse to be bad yourself.

[endarkenment]

28. The point is that the other powers are going to act

as we do. They are not going to put up with our American Exceptionalism bullshit, at least not if they don't think they have to. So if we Americans want to run around being all outraged about Russian interference in the affairs of their immediate neighbors, we might want to first put an end to the equivalent behavior by our own government first, otherwise we appear to be simply belligerent nationalist hypocrites.

[MellowDem]

42. We already did.

We elected Barack Obama. Try seeing if any shit like that would happen in Russia. And even if McCain was elected, we can say all the shit we want to about Russia. We don't agree with McCain, so we aren't being hypocrites. It's really incredibly simple. You seem to really be bending over backwards to defend Russia here. We don't speak for our government, we speak for ourselves... :eyes:

[pork medley]

47. Amen! nt

[Nihil]

36. My original response ...

... was a light-hearted snark at the Freudian typo in your post ...

>> start threating them like sovereign states.

... that I presumed to mean "treating" but turned out like "threatening" ...

Anyhow, this was originally just meant as a tease but, FWIW, Russia going
"you do it too" is still politer than "STFU you hypocrites" (which they would
also be entitled to say).

:shrug:

[LiberalEsto]

13. Amen! nt

[TheLastMohican]

44. The problem with you is

your constant russian bashing gets very old and annoying.

I am right now in Ukraine and I can tell you the local folks are not very fond of NATO and the last thing they want is to alienate Russia. The only people wanting NATO in Ukraine are western regions and some politicians up in Kiev who do so for obvious political gains.

And since you are thinking only in terms of "vassal-master" relationship that tells a lot about your worldview.

Ukrainians and Russians are one family.

[Kurska]

20. Russia doesn't control those nations anymore

They can seek membership in the African union if they bloody well want to, it's non of Russia's buisness

[freedomnorth]

34. I still haven't found Gerogia's coastal territories on shores of NORTH ATLANTIC. n/t.

[AsiaExpat]

40. I presume this applies to the U.S. as well

[TheLastMohican]

45. Neither do we

Despite what the US department tells you about "Orange Revolution" and stuff.
The fact that we have our temporary stooge there in power doesn't mean it will last forever.
I think Obama administration is going to turn its back on those highly unpopular politicians in Ukraine and Georgia.

[Dark]

27. Or else what?

Hell, all we'd have to do is sprinkle cash from a plane and we'd have control of their government. The country is so corrupt.

[FarLeftRage]

30. Hey russia...

HA XINA!!!!!!!

English: Go Fuck yourself!!!