Court Rules in Brain-Damaged Woman's Case (Terri Schiavo)

[Khephra]

February 13, 2004, 12:47 PM EST


TAMPA, Fla. -- Gov. Jeb Bush and the parents of a severely brain-damaged woman won appellate court rulings in their favor Friday on two legal issues in their quest to keep the woman alive against her husband's wishes.

Florida's 2nd District Court of Appeal ruled that Pinellas Circuit Court Judge W. Douglas Baird did not follow judicial rules when he denied Terri Schiavo's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, the ability to intervene in the constitutional challenge to a law aimed at keeping their 40-year-old woman alive.

more...................

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-brain-damaged-woman,0,4650112.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[Caution]

1. This is so obscene (n/t)

[liberalhistorian]

19. No, what's obscene is Michael Schiavo wanting

his wife dead so he can collect on her money, money he won claiming he needed it for her rehabilitation and therapy and care.

Right after he won it, he suddenly "remembered" that she's "allegedly" said she wouldn't want any kind of treatment if she were in that situation, when he'd just spent months getting the money to pay for said treatment, and her family says she never expressed any such thing. He's never allowed her to have any kind of therapy or treatment, despite the wishes of her parents and family, who should, frankly, have priority.

's obvious he doesn't and never did give a damn about whether she lived or died, he just wanted the money. It has been suggested that he turn over her care to her parents, that that would be the fairest solution, but he refuses. He claims he wants to get on with his life (he has a girlfriend and two children with her), which is fair enough considering how long it's been, so why doesn't he just allow her family to take over? Or why doesn't he divorce her? One simple reason, M-O-N-E-Y. It's that simple.

They were on the verge of separation before her heart attack, and it's been suggested that he may have had something to do with her comatose state, since it's incredibly rare for such a young woman to have that kind of a reaction. So, I'm sorry, I cannot stand Bush and I'm against almost everything the repukes stand for when it comes to most things, but I'm on their side on this one, and I'm happy for her parents.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. liberalhistorian i'm with you on this one i'm happy for her parents too!

[Taeger]

2. Anti-Matrix

Republicans want to create an anti-Matrix. They want to keep people's bodies artificially alive and networked for the purpose of personal gain. The difference is that the subjects don't get a dream world. They are BRAIN-DEAD. They don't even dream.

It makes you wonder what the brain state is of those trying to keep meat vegetables alive.

[Zhade]

6. In my view, it's simply a waste of resources.

The consciousness of the brain-dead individual is likely long since departed for greater adventures in dimensions above this mortal coil.

It's a waste of money, time, and energy resources in this case. It's really a shame.

[SemperEadem]

3. so much for the husband being the true next of kin to his own wife

now the governor can intrude in your marriage.

Repubicans are for more government micromanaging your life. Next, they'll have the power to tell you you can't end your marriage.

[gimme a break]

4. The courts failed Terri years ago.

She's probably beyond help now. She's gone too long without meaningful therapy.

I'm not sure whether what if any of this is right or wrong. It depends on who is telling the truth. Was the husband the cause of her accident or was it an imbalance? Why does she show evidence of past trauma? Why did hubby suddenly remember she didn't want to stay alive after the money for her future care was in the bank? How do we decide this when she didn't leave written instructions?

There's got to be a better way to let her go than to let her dehydrate to death, even if they do drug her up. It's not like she's wired up to tubes that do everything for her. She has a feeding tube and that's it. She's not brain-dead, she's brain-damaged. Some doctors think that she could be taught to swallow, negating the need for the feeding tube.

From what I've read about this case, I find it very troubling about how she's been cared for the past several years. I've worked with disabled adults. They are wonderful people. I've seen families slowly withdraw from them. I've seen the hurt in the eyes of a brain-damaged young man when his family told him what a wonderful time they had at Disneyland, but oops, sorry, we didn't have room to take you. We had room for you siblings and their girlfriends and other little friends, but not you.

This probably creates a huge bias on my part on this issue. I just wish more of the people I have cared for over the years had such dedication from their families as Terri's parents have for her.

[alittlelark]

5. UUUhhhhh, yeah

I must have read completely different stories than the ones you're reading - or having told to you. Are you a Fundamentalist, by chance?

[Heyo]

7. This is such a sad story..

Why don't people invloved excercise REAL compassion??

To me personally, that means really deep down thinking as hard as you can "If I were in this womans position, what would I want everyone to do."

I don't know a person on this Earth who would actually CHOOSE to be kept alive in that state as opposed to quitely and peacefully passing on.

Anyone who tries to prolong this womans misery and indignity has no compation or has disingenous compassion for political purposes.

I may be a conservative, but I despise Jeb Bush.

-Heyo

P.S. For those who don't know, the woman has no cerebral cortex left.

[gimme a break]

10. No compassion

vs. cold and calloused.

So, I ask you this. If she's not in there, what does it hurt? If she is in there, and she wants to live and we sit back and let her dehydrate what type of people are we? If she's in there and she wants to die, then would she choose to dehydrate to death? What if she's one of those really strong people who would want to live in a manner where many would say, I just want to die? When there is no written instruction I think you must err on the side of life, or you're guilty of murder. So get your living wills done.

I wondered about the accusations against the husband. And then I saw him on Larry King. Was I the only one that got the heebie jeebies? That doesn't make him guilty of anything though. But he didn't come off as a caring, compassionate husband.

This could all simply be resolved if for a year you allow any and all therapy the parents want. Let them have unlimited access to her, let them decorate the room and play music for her. Document everything. If she shows absolutely no improvement, continue with removing the tube. If she does show improvement, then I would guess she's in there trying to fight to live.

[Heyo]

15. Try to honestly answer this question.....

If you were this women...

...and the rest of us here were your friends and family.. what would want us to do?

-Heyo

[gimme a break]

17. Truthfully, I don't know.

At this point I am in good condition. I would think that I would enjoy my life no matter what. I wouldn't want a feeding tube pulled if that was the only medical attention I needed to live. But if machines were breathing for me and regulating everything for me, and I was brain dead then I would say pull it.

I enjoy life too much to just say I could never live like that. I've seen a guy with Cerebral Palsy that couldn't eat solid food, was in a wheel chair, and had to use a special computer operated with his toe to communicate that had such a zest for life. But there are so many that would choose not to live that way. (He messed with people's heads too. He would trick new people into dumping him out of his wheel chair. You'd be afraid you had hurt him and when you rolled him over to help he'd have this big smile on his face and just be laughing his butt off.)

At this point I would say let me live.

[Heyo]

21. I can respect that response...

I for me, love life, too.

But I would never ever in a million years want to be kept alive in that state.

It scares the hell out me frankly.

I'm not a person who doesn't value life..I do.. I just don't think that is life. I mean of course she IS a human life in the objective sense... but I mean from her experience... it's not a life that she is living.

Because of this case really making me think.. when it was big in the news a short while back.. I told a few people close to me...(God forbid) if that ever happens to me, I'm telling you right now do not do to me what they are doing to this poor woman.. let me go with peace and dignity, and if there is an afterlife, I'll be there waiting to thank you for it.

Such a very sad story.

I feel bad because her parents seem delusional that she will get better and that she's responsive, because I think some unscrupulous doctors may be trying to sell her expensive treatment. I have no evidence for this, I just wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. The husband is no prize either, but at least he fighting to let her go, so maybe he's right for the wrong reason.

A brain scan tells all.. there's no cerebral cortex. No cerebral cortex=no thought, no feeling, no anything.

-Heyo

[gimme a break]

8. So I'm a fundie for

having questions about this? Have you worked with brain-damaged individuals? Or dually diagnosed adults? When I worked for them my top priority was to make sure they had the best care I could give. Excuse me for thinking that a being in a hospice where she's not allowed any interaction for years as good care. The husband wouldn't allow her to have music played in the room. The husband would allow her to sit in a wheel chair and sit in on activities with other hospice patient. And technically, since she's not considered terminal she should have never been admitted to a hospice. Had his (hubby's) attorney not been on the board, she never would have been admitted. The attorney removed himself from the board as soon as they admitted her. And since she is not brain-dead, if there's even a little of a spark of her left, I would consider that cruel.

Of course, I'm basing all of my opinions on my own personal experience with the people I worked with. I have not seen her personally and don't know if there's any of her left. But, I've seen too many disabled people shut away and forgotten for this not to bother me. If that's what you consider a fundie, I guess I am one. But I tend to think of it of being a compassionate human being.

[veganwitch]

9. i questioned this case too

the husband seemed really really shady.

[gimme a break]

12. Did you see him on Larry King?

Larry ought to fire the people who are supposed to prep him. He didn't know about the kid he has with his fiance. And hubby didn't volunteer that there was another child on the way at the time. Then he had his lawyer answer some questions for him.

[veganwitch]

23. i dont watch television

but i know there were some issues with how terri got in the state she was in. and then inheritance issues, i think i remember something about another woman, he wasnt allowing visitation to her parents etc.

[gimme a break]

25. There's seems to be a lot of questions about his motives

The 1.3 million he won in a settlement is gone. Her brother was called when she had the heart attack. He lived (I guess) in the same building. Hubby says he tried to resuscitate her, but the brother says she was still laying face down when he got there. He doesn't deny that he cut off visitation for family members for infractions (taping her, trying to see if she could eat pudding, etc.). He also doesn't deny that he has withheld treatments for potentially deadly conditions (bladder infection), that somehow she survived through. One nurse testified in court that he came in one day and asked if the bitch was dead yet. He says he had fussed at her because he didn't like the care she had given Terri and that she said that just for payback. A bone scan shows broken bones and neck trauma, yet there's no record of her being treated for them and the scans showed they are old injuries.

Maybe at first, he had every intention of caring for her for the rest of their lives. He went to school to be able to help her more. But he has definitely moved on. He's got a fiance and two kids with her. If he's not responsible for putting Terri in the condition she is in now, it would seem, at the very least, he has a conflict of interest.

[alittlelark]

11. I ask if you are because my mother is

and she could have written what you wrote almost verbatim. However, at her 'church' they are told what news sources lie, and which to trust. And the minister is ALWAYS right.

[gimme a break]

13. I guess I'm a bit over protective

when it comes to the disabled. I try to check out every news outlet and see what everyone is saying and make up my own mind from there. Sometimes I end up agreeing with the conservatives. Scary huh?

[reprobate]

18. This body is not "disabled". This body is brain dead.

Basically, this body has no more than involuntary reflexes. It can breath and digest. That's about it. A snake has more intellectual ability. What is the point of keeping this body alive. There is no more "she" in the body.

[wabeewoman]

14. I'm not a fundie and I agree

with the poster. If a feeding tube is keeping her alive, why wouldn't you feed her? I thought that was the point of advanced medical care. Do you realize this is just an issue in the last few years? I used to work in the medical field and we had stroke victims and comatose people who were kept alive on feeding tubes. They usually died from pneumonia or other causes but it wasn't just assumed they wouldn't be fed. Sometimes the family did take them off the feeding tube. It is really an issue of money because if the family had enough money to continue her care, they would and it wouldn't be an issue. You could feed and care for her for a long time for what a 'smart' bomb costs.If it were my child and she appeared as that woman does I would keep her alive as long as possible. Besides, didn't she get a settlement? Has all that money run out?

[gimme a break]

16. Hubby spent it all

A judge allowed him to use the money from the fund for his legal fees. The original amount was 1.3 million (I believe) and after paying for the bare necessities and his legal bills I think it's all gone.

He testified that he needed it for her future care. And the jury gave awarded that amount because of it. Had it just been plain malpractice it probably wouldn't have been that much.

[liberalhistorian]

20. I agree, and I don't trust that

lowlife husband of hers any farther than I can throw him. If my son were ever in that situation and he had a wife like Michael Schiavo, you better goddamn well believe I'd fight her every fucking step of the way, I would expect the courts to help me in the interest of justice, and I would have demanded first thing that she actually receive the therapy and care that he at first claimed she needed and won money for, then refused to allow her to have right after he received the money, claiming he "suddenly remembered" that she'd said she wouldn't want to be in that situation, when he'd never "remembered" it before and her family says she never said any such thing.

[bobbyboucher]

22. Pull the plug, as humanely as possible.

This was a normal woman, knew the joys that life could offer and now she cannot do anything, go anywhere, say anything, nothing. She has been this way for years, with not much improvement, if any.

My cousin was trapped in a failing body for years, most of his life. He got great care from his extended family and lived much longer than expected. Near the end, as things continually got worse, he had an "episode" which should have killed him. His mother, being a loving, caring mother, resussatated him repeatedly through every means she could muster. I was not there but was told the details. She kept him alive until the ambulance came and he went to the hospital and survived. The very next time he was able to speak to his mother, he told her he was OK. To never do that again. He was not afraid and wanted to be let go. He had seen the other side. He died less than a week later.

Give the girl a break. Let her go.