Pickens Plan garners support

[Robbien]

Source: BizJournals

ProgressNowAction, a Denver-based progressive advocacy network, said the organization has signed a pledge of support for the Pickens Plan, calling for Congress to enact an energy plan within the first 100 days of President-elect Barack Obama’s new administration.

The pledge has been signed by many, including 168 mayors across the country.

. . .

The Pickens Plan pushes for efforts to cut America’s use of imported oil by boosting the amount of electricity produced by wind farms, a renewable energy resource. The new, wind-driven power would replace electricity generated by natural gas — which in turn could be shifted to fuel cars, thus cutting the nation’s need for oil imports.

The plan requires a big spending effort to build more big transmission lines from the central plains, where the wind is plentiful but people are not, to big cities with plenty of customers on the nation’s coastlines. Money is also needed to get more natural gas-fueled vehicles into the market, as well as support systems such as refueling stations.

Read more: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2008/11/24/daily13.html

---

Pickens still pushing wind energy as a cover to get a government bailout for his natural gas holdings.

[xchrom]

1. well yeah -- pickens isn't going to sit still --

he's gonna work like the devil to get his idea out there.

i don't like but -- but fuck -- the dude's gonna work for it.

[Dawgs]

2. wind and solar yes; natural gas not so much.

:)

[NickB79]

10. The problem is, what do you use for back-up when the wind stops blowing and the sun sets?

Coal and nuclear are baseload power that must run 24 hours a day, and battery storage for enough electricity to power entire cities is currently out of the question. Some areas could do pumped hydro (use excess electricity on windy/sunny days to pump water into artificial lakes and run it through a dam when needed), but areas like that are few and far between. Natural-gas-fired plants are about the only ones that can be powered up fast enough to take up the slack if the wind dies down, clouds roll in or electricity demand goes up.

As much as I hate to burn ANY fossil fuels, using natural gas as a backup to renewables so that we could close coal plants, and as a substitute for oil, would buy us some time to prevent irreversible climate change.

[msongs]

3. pickens plan = designed to make lots of $$ for...wait for it... pickens himself nt

[izquierdista]

8. I believe the family name has been changed

It used to be Pickpockets in the old country, but T-Bone decided that was a little to honest for him to get ahead, so he changed it.

[ElectricGrid]

19. Cause an 80 yr old Billionaire needs more mone? LMAO

[kcass1954]

4. Sorry - not just about energy. Nothing involving Pickens is about anything but making

more money for Pickens.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3813201&mesg_id=3813201

[Mnpaul]

5. Anyone who thinks running cars on natural gas

will work should talk to people who tried it in the seventies. Everyone I know who converted, ended up converting back.

Pickens is a huckster and a fraud.

[alfredo]

6. Has the technology changed since the 70's?

[NickB79]

9. Schwan's Frozen Foods uses propane in all 5,000 of their trucks, and has been for many years

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS116564+08-Jul-2008+PRN20080708

If they can do it with propane for 30 years without issue, I don't see why natural gas is any less feasible.

[foxer]

11. What do you suppose would happen to a tank of compressed

Natural Gas (CNG) in a car accident? And his plan to run 18 wheelers on it won't work, they run diesels not for the power, but for the torque they produce, CNG won't cut it. How about we quit having politicians and oilmen design our vehicles, and maybe look to engineers for a change?

[NickB79]

12. Again, Schwan's trucks have been running propane successfully for 30 years

A Schwan's truck is the size of a mid-size U-Haul truck; much larger than a cargo van. They haven't had issues with accidents or torque. Similarly, the Honda Civic GX has been sold in the US for several years now, and it too is powered by natural gas:

http://gas2.org/2008/05/05/the-cleanest-cars-on-earth-honda-civic-gx-and-other-natural-gas-vehicles-ngvs/

As for 18-wheelers, I had only heard Pickens suggest using CNS in cars. Semi-trailers can keep using diesel; the amount still used would be small compared to the reduction in gasoline and CO2 emissions. Add biodiesel to the mix for even more carbon reductions.

On edit: http://www.greencar.com/features/benefits-of-natural-gas/

"CNG is actually a safer fuel than gasoline. After all, natural gas is used in virtually every home. Unlike gasoline that can pool on the ground in the event of an accident or leak, CNG dissipates harmlessly into the air. With a very narrow range of flammability to be combustible and nearly twice the ignition temperature of gasoline, it's also less likely to cause a fire."

[Mnpaul]

13. Do you want to have to fill up

every 180 miles?

[Mnpaul]

14. and for $3500

you can buy a home fueling station that will fill up your car in 16 hours
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/refueling.aspx

[NickB79]

20. Read further in the first link I posted

"NGV enthusiasts are getting around range limitations (and vehicle scarcity) by converting their own vehicles to run on natural gas and adding spare tank capacity. Throwing extra tanks in the bed of a truck, for example, can boost driving range to around 600 miles. The best part about converting a vehicle (as opposed to the Civic GX) is that if you run out of CNG, the system automatically switches back to gasoline."

[Mnpaul]

22. It is fine if you own a truck

But for a car you are already gave up your trunk. Are you going to give up your backseat as well? This is why all the people I know converted back. Nothing has changed. If we start using natural gas as vehicle fuel, road taxes will be added and it will drive home heating prices up as well.

[Mnpaul]

15. Ever see a Schwans trucking driving around

when it is -10?

[NickB79]

18. Yes, they visited our farm in central MN in winter

Hell, I even found an article discussing winter delivery in South Dakota:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/252202/now_thats_delivery/

"Ken Barth said that many rural customers depend on Schwan's a great deal during the winter, when they might not get into town as much, or during planting season, when they work long hours."

[ryanmuegge]

17. Many of the same supply tightness would still exist. It's not a valid economic or geopolitical alt.

We'll be importing from Russia and Iran, rather than Canada and Nigeria.

I'm not sure what the geopolitical or economical advantage to natural gas would be, in all honesty.

[bloomington-lib]

7. i say go for it

We need something to get the ball rolling! The first phase is creating a wind power infrastructure. Good for the environment and creates lots of jobs. They need American companies to start mass producing thousands of these which will bring down the price for even more wind farms. I think it'll get Americans thinking about alt energy, paving the way to a green economy.


Yeah Pickens makes a shit-ton of money, but whatever. We need to get off our asses.

[karynnj]

16. We need to get moving - but with a far better plan

Pickens plan was designed to utilize what benefited him. The Senate and House have had hearings with SCIENTISTS and with entrepreneurs who are developing new technology.

Pickens is using $58 million of marketing slogans to people directly to get them to pressure their representatives to enact his plan. If the plan was so good - why not use the $58 million to start it without government support.

[Mnpaul]

23. Exactly

If it was a good plan people would already be using it. I someone wants it that, go buy it.
4 cylinder http://tinyurl.com/5qbbdp
8 cylinder http://tinyurl.com/6c2ze7

I'll pass.

[jpak]

21. They could start by converting municipal buses to NG

n/t

[Regret My New Name]

25. I think I remember Portland, Oregon having a bunch of natural gas busses...

or maybe I'm thinking of somewhere else. I move around too much.

[burrowowl]

24. The way NG is recovered is through

hydraulic fracturization.
Which means the gas go anywhere in the water table. This means you should flambe your water before drinking it

[blogslut]

26. The Pickens Plan in Two Words

Eminent Domain

[Jersey Ginny]

27. It's a good plan for America. We've got all the technology NOW to move forward

It is going to take real leadership to make the transition to Natural Gas and Wind/Solar etc. when gas prices are dropping. I hope Obama shows that leadership like he said he would.

[sofa king]

28. ...But not enough natural gas.

The chemical companies have been crying a river for years due to the cost and general scarcity of natural gas.

http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_acc/sec_news_article.asp?CID=206&DID=2231

Yes, we supposedly have plenty of reserves but the distribution network already fails to meet current demand (though that demand has certainly dropped due to the latest Bush recession). I suspect that Pickens' real interest lies in his chance to corner the distribution industry.

Edited for want of a preposition.