Head of U.S. bishops says no compromise on abortion

[DogPoundPup]

Source: Yahoo / Reuters

CHICAGO (Reuters) – The head of the U.S. Catholic bishops' group said on Monday that Barack Obama's election as president should be celebrated but he made it clear the church would not compromise its strict stand against abortion.

Obama won solid support from Catholics in last week's election, exit polls indicated, even though the church opposes the view, supported by the Illinois Democratic senator, that a woman has the right to choose whether to have an abortion. The U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision in 1973 legalized abortion.

Obama's election "is a moment that touches more than our history when a country that once enshrined race slavery in its very constitutional order should come to elect an African- American to the presidency," said Cardinal Francis George of Chicago.

"In this, I truly believe, we must all rejoice," the head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops told the group's semi-annual meeting in Baltimore.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081110/us_nm/us_obama_bishops

[NC_Nurse]

1. "Every sperm is sacred..."

I wonder what percentage of Catholics actually adhere strictly to all the rules...

Not many, I bet. What bullshit.

[MichaelHarris]

3. One of those

sperms could be Jesus's little sister. Either that or another Charles Manson, it's really a 50/50 shot.

[silverojo]

13. Or it could be GAY!!!!!!!!

OMG! OMG! OMG! So which takes precedence: Protecting a fetus, or another unholy GAAAYYYY person in the world?!?!?

Fucking Catholics...always reminding me of why I left the church.

[Ilsa]

22. The worst meme I've heard is that the researcher who was

supposed to cure cancer has been aborted. Yeah, right.

[primavera]

2. That's okay

I don't expect every person to agree with everything Obama does - I certainly don't, why should Catholics be any different? What matters is that they're not letting a single issue dictate their voting; they're willing to celebrate Obama's victory even though on one out of a hundred points, they don't see eye to eye with him. It's the single issue absolutists that drive me crazy.

[not fooled]

23. Yeah, that's the church membership...

...but the chuch leaders probably voted another way, for the blastocysts and stem cells. :eyes:

[TommyO]

4. Well then, those men in dresses are free to choose not to have an abortion

when they become pregnant!

[rug]

5. One week ago they said Catholics who vote this way are materially cooperating with evil.

Now they're rejoicing.

[Orsino]

6. Compromises only on war, poverty, child molestation, etc. n/t

[MountainLaurel]

9. Well, it's not like those things MATTER to Jesus

I'm sure he was all about the uterus.

[Libertyfirst]

16. Too right. n/t

[Hulk]

7. This asshole speaks for HIMSELF...

...cause he sure doesn't speak for this Catholic.

It really gripes me. It's like if you are for giving women their OWN choice....that must mean you are for aborting babies left and right. Such utter nonsense.

I am against having an abortion. Of course, I'm a male and won't have to worry about it, will I? But then, giving each and every woman that same choice is somehow read as "I'm condoning abortion". Utter bull shit.

This ass hat needs to mind his own business....heal the sick, cloth the poor, feed the hungry..and keep his dick in his own pants around the alter boys. That's ALL he needs to worry about. Let women in this world decide for themselves.

What a f*cking idiot.

[scytherius]

8. I love how the Right Wing, after getting slaughtered, wants to be MORE Right Wing.

I hope they keep it up.

[mitchum]

10. Who really pays attention to a bunch of gown-wearing medieval pedophiles?

[saigon68]

15. And then there's the "GOOD" Father Feeney

Priest gets 15 years for assault of two boys

http://www2.jsonline.com/news/state/apr04/226244.asp

Appleton - A Catholic priest found guilty of four charges related to the sexual abuse of two brothers in 1978 was sentenced Friday to 15 years in prison.

Father John Patrick Feeney, 77, was sentenced by Outagamie County Circuit Judge Dennis Luebke after being convicted in February of three counts of sexual assault of a child and one count of attempted sexual assault of a child. He had faced up to 60 years in prison.
At the time of the crimes, Feeney was the parish priest at St. Nicholas Catholic Church in Freedom. The case was reopened in June 2002 following nationwide news accounts of sexual abuse among priests in the Catholic Church and what was done to deal with the allegations.

Before the trial, a judge ruled Feeney could be prosecuted on the brothers' allegations because he moved out of the state in 1985 and, therefore, the statute of limitations did not apply. Feeney was arrested in Los Angeles in September 2002 and waived extradition.

[Canuckistanian]

96. They're an all-male caste of isolated eunuchs

And they're the ones setting the standards for personal morality?

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. They Should Read The Bible Once In A While

There is nowhere in the bible where abortion is specifically outlawed, but there is this (Numbers 5:11-31):

11 Then the LORD said to Moses, 12 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 " 'The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband"— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—"may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries."
" 'Then the woman is to say, "Amen. So be it."

23 " 'The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 " 'This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the LORD and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.' "

[LiberalFighter]

12. It's easy to have the stance of no abortion when he isn't allowed to marry or have sex.

Even though they sometimes do have sex.

The last I knew... The Bishop was not elected to legislate in the United States. Neither was the Pope. The Catholic parishioners don't get to vote on anything regarding their bishop, priest, or anything that I know of.

The realm for the Roman Catholic Church is the Vatican.

[McCamy Taylor]

14. Until the head of Catholic Bishops withholds communion from someone for voting death penalty,

he can suck my dick.

When you claim to value the sanctity of life, you have to value the sanctity of all life. No war, no death penalty, no abortion.

[sutz12]

17. Guess I won't be compromising on the Catholic Church anytime soon, then.

Any time I start thinking about all the "good" they have done, I'll just have to remember this kind of sanctimonious crap.

:shrug:

[PATRICK]

18. Well no one was voting on Church doctrine

and at least the people understood, despite the nervousness of their Church leaders, the difference between Church and state and how best to reduce the number of abortions without tragic criminalization and the unneeded deaths by other GOP means, how best to help children actually live after birth, the value of civil rights and truth in a civil society, a practical wisdom smarter than the constricted thinking of the upper echelons. That every election is NOT a simple referendum on Roe v. Wade that must favor the GOP.

It would have been far far more productive and in service of life if they had spent the last decades trying to obviate the reasons for abortions, even if they wanted to remain fussy about birth control, than lean uselessly on the contradictory pro GOP sucker hate Pro Life movement which favors punishment, capital punishment, sexual ignorance and hypocrisy, political takeover and giving the rich the keys to the treasury without much of a scratch at a SCOTUS ruling. Decent idealists have been ruined as intelligent citizens by this offbeat simpleton leadership.

Vox populo Vox Dei.

[Boo Boo]

19. Works for me. /nt

[Joe Bacon]

20. Well, Mr. George, You wanna play, you gotta pay!

Take the churches off of welfare. Tax them. Just imagine the REAL BIG tax cut working people could get once these lazy good for nothing slobs are taken off the faith-based gravy train!

[MountainLaurel]

21. And the income it could bring in

Think of all the prime real estate those fuckers own: If they suddenly had to pay the property taxes on some nice, downtown estate, the inflow of cash to cities could fund all sorts of social services programs.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

101. That will never happen.

Ever. The Democrats know that they would be booted out of power if they ever proposed anything like that.

[WePurrsevere]

24. Kick

[Omaha Steve]

25. Catholic bishops will fight Obama on abortion

Source: Associated Press

By RACHEL ZOLL

BALTIMORE (AP) - The nation's Roman Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights, saying the church and religious freedom could be under attack in the new presidential administration.

In an impassioned discussion on Catholics in public life, several bishops said they would accept no compromise on abortion policy. Many condemned Catholics who had argued it was morally acceptable to back President-elect Obama because he pledged to reduce abortion rates.

And several prelates promised to call out Catholic policy makers on their failures to follow church teaching. Bishop Joseph Martino of Scranton, Pa., singled out Vice President-elect Biden, a Catholic, Scranton native who supports abortion rights.


Bishop Dale J. Melczek of Gary, Ind., front left, and Archbishop John C. Nienstedt of St. Paul-Minneapolis, right, pray during the semi-annual meeting of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Tuesday, Nov. 11, 2008 in Baltimore. The bishops discussed today Catholic politicians and abortion rights. (AP Photo/ Steve Ruark)


"I cannot have a vice president-elect coming to Scranton to say he's learned his values there when those values are utterly against the teachings of the Catholic Church," Martino said. The Obama-Biden press office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20081112/D94D2OO00.html

[onehandle]

26. This is news? The Catholic Church is against abortion. Film at 11. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

27. If Obama invited him over to the WH, this dip would piss himself.

[BlueCaliDem]

41. Exactly. Do these "bishops" really want to take on the U.S. President who knows how to hit back?

Seriously, these men need to go back to their pulpits and do what the United States gave them freedom to do...worship their god (the Pope?) and their dogma and leave the government alone.

I mean... the Catholic Church is still tax exempt, right? The question is, will they want that privileged status... investigated?

[musette_sf]

28. in other news

American women will fight celibate (maybe) Catholic bishops on abortion.

[Frisbee]

53. So you don't count alter boy, ehh?

:evilgrin:

[musette_sf]

56. i said "maybe" celibate...

[Skittles]

29. they can fuck themselves

they're responsible for a lot of the sheer misery in this world

[saigon68]

33. They need to Zip Up their pants when around young boys

[janethussein]

30. What a fuckin joke -

Catholic priests praying against a President. Perhaps they should begin praying FOR their own disgusting and reprehensible congregation of child molesters and pedophiles. Give me a fucking break you sorry two-faced bastards.

[Rage for Order]

36. What's it called when one ascribes the actions of a few to a group as a whole?

There's a word for it...I'll let you figure it out

[atreides1]

72. What's it called when a group assists a few who commit a crime

The church played cover-up for those child molesters who wore a collar, and any priest who failed to report what they knew are just as guilty as those who molested those children.

And until other priests or cardinals speak up against these fanatics they are stuck with being associated with the action of those few!!!

[Warpy]

31. If they keep trying to force their religious dogma as cilvil law,

IT'S TIME TO TAX THE BASTARDS.

Seriously.

[riley3]

32. As a Catholic it really disgusts me to read that the priests' agenda is to

stand in the way of an administration that wants to help people improve their lives. They want to keep us suppressed. My father was raised in one of their orphanages, and it was hell on earth. They only want their way regarding abortion, but once the baby is born they lose interest.

[saigon68]

35. Starvation, abuse and poverty not on their Radar

[Peregrine Took]

42. I agree, Riley, as a weekday Mass goer and 18 yrs of Catholic education - I'm

now at my wit's end.

My husband, 99% of my family, all my friends have left the church and I was the only one to stay on - mainly out of my mom's (RIP) wishes, although (oddly) she was pro-choice to her death bed.

Now, I think I've had it. These guys are way out there and I can no longer relate to the increasingly hard right wing agenda they are following.

I'm shocked about Cardinal George as he's been so meek and mild until now - I guess the election has "stiffened his spine." Wrong!

[JerseygirlCT]

45. There are so many other priorities

so many things that Obama can help move forward.

And THIS is more important?

That's the part I don't get. Even if one accepts the RCC position on abortion (I do not), why does it rise to importance far above poverty or health care or the suffering and dying that's happening to people already born and living and hurting through no cause of their own all over the country and all over the world today? These are things we can start to do something about - while the RCC position on contraception actually increases the odds that abortions will prove more in demand.

It's just screwy. These men need to spend some time away from their sees and in the streets. A lesson in humility is sorely needed, I fear.

[pipi_k]

54. Actually I heard on the news earlier today that

Some of these priests and bishops were telling parishoners that a candidate's stand on abortion should be the ONLY criteria they use when they're voting.

Oh yeah...

like a family that can't afford groceries AND heat and has to decide which one to buy is supposed to give a shit what a candidate's stand on abortion is????

Seniors who worry about cuts to Social Security or Medicare...they're supposed to vote for the guy who is more likely to screw them over just so a bunch of embryos can be "saved"...for what is anyone's guess, but it's a probability that many unwanted children could end up being neglected or abused...or born to a family that is unable to properly support them...but hey, once the kid is born, that's where these douchebags' interest ends...


grrrrrrr.......!!!!!!!! :mad:


I realize it's not the religion itself, but I still can't help wishing religion would self-destruct

[JerseygirlCT]

68. I'd venture a guess, since it's the way I was raised, that

most American Catholics, would not order their priorities in this hard way.

They understand that abortion is a particularly difficult issues. And that, in fact, it's not one that has an easy answer to be found in scripture, or church history.

But helping the poor, the sick, the prisoner... Jesus was pretty darned clear about that. And most of the people in my family, and those I grew up with, are too.

Abortion? They know what their choice would be; they know where they stand on it. But your choice? That's between you and God, in their mind.

These other things? We can do something for these people, and we should. Where's the downside to doing so?

[heliarc]

48. My thought exactly.

Opposition among Catholic priests to Gay marriage or adoption of children by gay parents is the perpetuation of a failing foster care system and the condemnation of thousands upon thousands of children to life without guidance and without hope. Let's talk about that for a change!

Where does the religious heterosexual community get the right to talk about family values with divorce rates what they are and teenagers being abandoned at hospitals. Ridiculous.

[muntrv]

34. Keep talking, bishops. Before you know it, you'll be creating more UCC members.

[JerseygirlCT]

47. Or just a tiny jump to the left into the Episcopal Church

all the liturgy, far less of the nonsense.

[pscot]

37. Why?

They had no problem with us killing half a million Iraquis.

[pipi_k]

61. And they don't give two rat's asses

about genocide going on in other parts of the world, either.

and there's presently a case going on in my area...the Jason Strickland thing where he's accused of either beating, or being a party to the beating of, his "stepdaughter" Haleigh Poutre.

Some of the details have been in the news lately, like how he's accused of pushing her down the stairs...and the wall next to the stairs has multiple holes in it, and neurologists say that her head injuries are classic in someone who has suffered a high impact car crash....not the result of self-injury like this Strickland guy has claimed.

Where are those priests and bishops now, huh?

where are the "right to lifers"?

Those fuckers are standing outside of abortion clinics protesting for a bunch of CELLS, for crissakes, while this little girl (who is now 14 and severely brain damaged) suffered the most horrible treatment imaginable.


I hate them all.

I hope they burn in Hell.

[Rage for Order]

73. Are you sure about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governments%27_positions_pre-2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Vatican_City

The Holy See took a firm stance against the U.S. plan to invade Iraq. Pope John Paul II's special envoy, Pío Cardinal Laghi, was sent by the Church to talk with George W. Bush to express opposition to the war on Iraq. The Catholic Church said that it was up to the United Nations to solve the international conflict through diplomacy. According to the Church, the Iraq war, and indeed most modern wars, did not satisfy the just war requirements set by St. Augustine of Hippo and other theologians. The method of total war (i.e. any non accidental attacks on non combatants, or civilian infrastructure), which has been used in most modern wars since the American Civil War and which was used in Iraq, are not permitted. The Church was also worried of the fate of the Chaldean Catholics of Iraq. The Vatican worried that they might see the same destruction as happened to the Churches and Monasteries after the war in Kosovo. The Secretary for Relations with States, Archbishop Jean Louis Tauran, said that only the UN can decide on a military attack against Iraq, because a unilateral war would be a "crime against peace and a crime against international law". The Cardinal Secretary of State of the Vatican, Angelo Cardinal Sodano, indicated that only the United Nations Security Council had the power to approve an attack in self-defense, and only in case of a previous aggression. His opinion was that the attack on Iraq did not fall into this category and that a unilateral aggression would be a "crime against peace and a violation of the Geneva Convention".

[bunkerbuster1]

103. YEs, the Vatican has been staunchly anti-Iraq war. Problem is...

it's not a deal-killer for the RCC; nor is the death penalty.

The only political deal-killer I've seen is abortion, and to me, that's grossly hypocritical.

I don't see why the RCC can't find some wiggle room, and acknowledge that devout people can oppose criminalizing abortion while remaining personally opposed to it. But they just won't do that, and it pisses me off to no end.

[Joe Bacon]

75. These bishops also love Bush for torturing people

They love Freddy and Freida Fetus while they're in the womb, but once they pop out, they're on their own. If Freddy or Freida starve to death, get sick, or get abused or never reach their potential, well that's the Catholic God's will. If that is their God's will, FUCK THEIR GOD! I want no part of such a sadistic fiend.

Tax these clowns. Take them off welfare once and for all!

[supernova]

38. Seriously, is there anyway we can

convince these assholes with crucifixes to crawl back into their rat holes.

They are very overly concerned with lady parts they don't have access to.

[BootinUp]

39. Maybe one of them should run for President? :shrug:

[msongs]

40. so, how many child molestors are still working as priest these days? nt

[laconicsax]

43. They're right. It's too bad that Obama isn't going to govern from

an ancient text of uncertain origin and doctrine set by infallible popes and later changed or tossed out by other infallible popes.

[defendandprotect]

44. An immoral all-male-hierarchy .... wants to continue teaching intolerance for gays ...

and keep male control over female reproduction ....no matter "health" issues ..

They've been stopped from spreading their vile propaganda against Jews --

Their efforts to ban birth control have been dismantled --

Their work in the area of sexual abuse of young members of the church exposed --

What we need to do is end their tax-exempt status and just let them be what they are ..

a patriarchal political organization run by perverts --

[geomon666]

46. Abortion has nothing to do with your church or religion.

What the fuck is wrong with these people? You know they take up a position against abortion. They make it their concern to see that every woman comes to term, no matter the circumstances they have or will face and then they act like their religion is being attacked when they are confronted.

It's none of your fucking business!

[buff2]

49. Of course they are against abortions

They want all the little boys they can get their filthy hands on to molest. Sick bunch of two faced bastards.

[pipi_k]

50. Oh, so they "condemned" Catholics who supported Obama

even though he doesn't oppose a woman's right to choose?

What are they gonna do now...excommunicate everyone who supported Obama?

Go ahead and let them, is what I say...let the Catholic church choke on its own self-righteous bile and die.

They're so damned worried that Obama will "take away their religious freedom"? How ironic...how utterly ironic and pathetic.

How, and why, do they think they even DESERVE religious freedom while they actively tell members how they should vote...and while they work tirelessly to take away the civil rights of a whole group of human beings...

Religious freedom my ass.

Let them bring the Catholic church down to near-death and see how arrogant and demanding they are then....

[mrs_p]

60. i agree with you

just go ahead and excommunicate me you little, little men. i'm sick of your rule and i (this former nun) say no more.

i'm done.

[pipi_k]

63. Once upon a time

before people were more educated than they are now, the threat of excommunication worked as a form of control.

Now, I'm sincerely hoping that people are able to see through the threats...go join another, more liberal church...


I guess that's why I'm a HeathenPaganAtheistAgnostic type person


There's something in me that doesn't take kindly to being controlled...

;)

[defendandprotect]

76. As Catholic school survivor ...

often wondered about the nuns who stayed ater '60's ...

and could only hope at least half of them stayed to make

Swiss Cheese of the church --!!!???

[happygoluckytoyou]

51. SORRY... the vote is in... PRO CHOICE WON... sarah is back in I'll-ask-ya... ya-bitch-ya

[ilrslr3]

52. Were the Catholics this

out-spoken during the Clinton administration? Clinton was pro-choice when he was President I just don't remember the Church's being so outspoken like this.

[mrs_p]

62. no

i was a nun during this time, and, though the church spoke out against abortion, it was not the ONLY issue the church cared about. it was before we had our current nazi-pope.

[CatholicEdHead]

66. Hyper-focus on abortion comes from an inability to deal with the sex scandal

Going head to head with some conservative seminarians online they do think the Church is a "perfect society" and hence can do no wrong. Their is an complete failure to deal with the loss of prestige and respect. They think to get it back they need to go back to an old time (which never really existed) about the pay, pray and obey style.

It also came about by the dropping off of donations after the scandal, so they need funds and the hard right are usually loyal non-questioning followers with money. It is back to the old model through history of the people serving the Church and not the Church serving the people. At that level they think we should all follow as children to a stern patriarchal father and never question. It falls flat because it does not relate to anyone in our current times.

[mrs_p]

67. interesting perspective

such logic - brings me back to my jesuit school days.

[AndyTiedye]

65. Big Difference — Maledict is Pope Now

Here is a clue how THAT happened.

[defendandprotect]

80. And a bit more before that ...

Some guess they might have knocked off Pope John XXIII and a few more who

wanted to modernize Church until they got to the Polish/CIA Pope --!!

Evidently Italians just couldn't be trusted--!!!

Btw, Allen Dulles nephew is somewhere in the one mile Vatican City of

all-males --- and he's moving rapidly up the ranks--!!!

[defendandprotect]

77. The Pope told Catholics it would be a sin to vote for Kerry ...!!

They were also wildly after Geraldine Ferraro when she ran for VP

with Mondale vs Reagan --

There were Senators and Reps as well who supported choice the were

after trying to make it an issue of shame --

They wanted to keep ... was it Ted Kennedy/?.... and some others

from receiving Communion.

[still_one]

84. They weren't this outspoken during the Kennedy administration. A bunch of hypocritical old men /nt

[MichiganVote]

55. The most immoral crowd on the planet.

[Frisbee]

57. Thanks for reminding me that...

I still despise the catholic church.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Skittles]

59. impersonating a deity, Grovelbot?

I WILL KICK YOUR ASS

[Zhade]

64. And they will lose - their tax-exempt status, if the right thing is done.

The catholic church is antiquated and evil.

[Dem2theMax]

69. When the Catholic Church sells off all of their property, (read 'Vatican riches')

and then feeds the poor and shelters the homeless with the profits, THEN I'll listen to them.

But I still won't listen to them when it comes to abortion.

[defendandprotect]

81. "Shoes Of The Fisherman" ...don't see that one on TV anymore--!!!

Anthony Quinn

[Dem2theMax]

90. I think I've seen it advertised on TCM now and then. But I've never watched it.

I'll make sure to watch next time it is on.

I've been to the Vatican. What little I saw would feed so many, I can't even imagine it.

[2Design]

70. bigots and discrimination and pediphiles - where is there outrage at a useless war killing

I so tired of religions who are so unbalanced and cannot see the forest because of the trees. They make me sick. They do not follow christ principles at all

[eagertolearn]

71. Bye, Bye Catholic church. If you start making your beliefs mandatory

for those to be members you will lose many members. It seems so odd to me that the Catholic church (and other churches) can be anti-abortion when there are so many children outside the womb who need assistance to survive on this earth. It seems odd that they can be so anti-gay rights when many of them are secretly gay. It seems odd that they can put so much energy into fighting for their rights in the womb when many of them have destroyed kids lives by sexually assaulting them. I was in several countries in Europe this last spring and was surprised to see religion not very popular over there anymore. They will fight until in the end. Are they really fighting for the life of an unborn child or are they fighting for the life of their church. Wake up America!!!!

[defendandprotect]

83. And that they are so anti-female when ...

every human comes to this earth thru the body of a female --

Nature makes women the majority gender --

And Vatican continues to refuse the full personhood of females as it

acknowledges the full personhood of males.

[Stellabella]

74. Um, religious "freedom" doesn't mean you can tell others what to do.

Don't like abortions - fine. Don't have one. Other than that - mind your own effing business and STFU.

[KakistocracyHater]

78. birth control=abortion to them

depro-vera shots=abortion, nuvo ring=abortion, bc pills=abortion. How soon until birth control=witchcraft?

"Augustine, John Chrysostom and other church patriarchs had opposed contraception and abortion. Augustinian doctrine equated sexual pleasure with sin, demanding that couples should engage in sex for procreation only. These theologians established “the classic Christian hostility to contraception, which linked it to magic and abortion.” Clement of Alexandria and John Chrysostom of Antioch both railed against women’s incantations over potions or libations intended to prevent conceptions. At the pope's request, bishop Caesarius of Arles renewed the campaign in the late 400s. His sermons indicate that Provençal women were using not only herbal potions but also amulets, “diabolical marks” and other magical means. "

"Denouncing both contraception and abortion as homicide, Caesarius issued orders that “no woman may drink a potion that makes her incapable of conceiving...” His motto was, “So much contraception, so many murders.” The bishop preached that such women would be damned unless they did long penance. He accused them of using “diabolical drinks” to avoid childbearing and so get rich. The degree of priestly hostility toward even marital sex can be gaged by Caesarius' prediction that a woman who had sex the night before going to church, or while menstruating, would bear a child who was a leper, epileptic or demoniac. Simiddle ages.
What magical powers do they get if motherhood is forced upon all? Why are they obsessed? Why do they have a fetish for the fetus?

[defendandprotect]

85. Meanhile, NATURE provided many plants for birth control ...

everywhere -- knowledge and plants destroyed ..

From the lemon which kills sperm to the Papaya which they eat for 7 days

to keep fertilized egg from attaching to womb lining -- and many others which

provided even permanent infertility if one wished -- Nature knew best.

We are now almost 7 BILLION on the planet --

One religion outbreeding another --

[Libertyfirst]

79. Vice-president -Elect Biden explained his position under tough

questioning in an interview in the Wilmington New Journal. The Bishop's refuse to recognize any position acceptable except their own. They may soon learn how irrelevant they are in the modern world. And how quickly history will forget them.

[still_one]

82. It is way past time to stop allowing religions organizations to be tax deductable /nt

[defendandprotect]

86. Vatican has huge real estate holdings/stock portfolios -- not taxed ...

Much of the RE is carried at original values --

[still_one]

88. Funny that it is the Catholic Church in the U.S. that seems so much more screwed up

than the Catholic Church internationally

[defendandprotect]

89. eh ........don't know if .....

I'd say that's true ...

Presume you saw letter from Pope setting policy to hide the sexual abuse-?

Didn't that come out last year-? I'll look for it --


Also, Italians say sexual abuse has always been there since first days --

every kind of sexual debauchery in ancient church --

American Bishops bowed to Vatican during sexual abuse scandals/new guidelines, etal --


But, look at RC church schools which helped destroy native children/families --!!

Every kind of cruelty there -- beatings, murder, sexual abuse.


Papal Bulls re natives and Africans -- "enslave them or kill them" ...

1,100 years of oppression of Jews in Papal states --


Me thinks the FISH always stinks from the head down ...

;-)

[still_one]

95. I was referring more to the church's intereference in other countries governments

correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Italy have abortion? I do know they do major work on embroyonic stem cell research

I wasn't referring to the dogma on the church, just there interference in government affairs

[defendandprotect]

97. I think you're considering an interesting question ...

but I still think all church policy is made in Vatican City ...

Yes, they have now lost almost total control over Catholics everywhere,

including Italy. But only because societies everywhere freed themselves from

church controls over birth control and abortion, for instance.

Everywhere, birth control couldn't even be discussed with a doctor.

It used to be illegal in Italy to laugh at a priest in the streets--!!




US government withholding funds from UN in general and for birth control

internationally via UN progams under Bush seems alliance betweem Bush and Vatican.

Lots of money and fascist ideas abound still in RCC .. .

no friend of democracy nor "equality or all."

[still_one]

98. Interesting, thanks for the perspective /nt

[truthisfreedom]

87. Catholic priests protect the unborn just long enough for them to grow into sexual toys for their

perverted minds and bodies. God forbid a few less victims are brought into the world, huh, bishops?

[glinda]

91. Evangelicals got to them

and now they can watch their Church go down in flames which is what the extreme Evangelicals want to have happen to the Catholic Church.

[CatholicEdHead]

99. Actually they are working hard for Evangelical outreach

The "orthodox" ultra conservative movement sees one of their biggest rivals to be the fundie evangelicals. That is what things like this and unoffical lay groups like Catholic Answers target. They want the fundies to change to conservative Catholics to keep the numbers up in the pews and the liberal and moderate Catholics of the past century out.

This will come back to bite them as a trojan horse type setup is forming and it will be hurt even more from the inside out.

It is hard to have any type of worldly vision when ones' noses are buried deep in a book of rules (CCC/Canon Law).

[Career Prole]

92. You keep your church out of our state

and we'll keep our state out of your church. Deal, Padre?

[LynnTheDem]

93. Dear Catholics...

MY body; MY CHOICE.

get OVER it.

[Endangered Specie]

94. Tax time!

[Quantess]

100. Yeah! We need those taxes right now.

This would be a great time to push for churches to contribute taxes.

[melm00se]

102. did anyone expect anything different?