Georgia Claims on Russia War Called Into Question

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: NYT

Newly available accounts by independent military observers of the beginning of the war between Georgia and Russia this summer call into question the longstanding Georgian assertion that it was acting defensively against separatist and Russian aggression.
Instead, the accounts suggest that Georgia’s inexperienced military attacked the isolated separatist capital of Tskhinvali on Aug. 7 with indiscriminate artillery and rocket fire, exposing civilians, Russian peacekeepers and unarmed monitors to harm.

The accounts are neither fully conclusive nor broad enough to settle the many lingering disputes over blame in a war that hardened relations between the Kremlin and the West. But they raise questions about the accuracy and honesty of Georgia’s insistence that its shelling of Tskhinvali, the capital of the breakaway region of South Ossetia, was a precise operation. Georgia has variously defended the shelling as necessary to stop heavy Ossetian shelling of Georgian villages, bring order to the region or counter a Russian invasion.

President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia has characterized the attack as a precise and defensive act. But according to observations of the monitors, documented Aug. 7 and Aug. 8, Georgian artillery rounds and rockets were falling throughout the city at intervals of 15 to 20 seconds between explosions, and within the first hour of the bombardment at least 48 rounds landed in a civilian area. The monitors have also said they were unable to verify that ethnic Georgian villages were under heavy bombardment that evening, calling to question one of Mr. Saakashvili’s main justifications for the attack.

Senior Georgian officials contest these accounts, and have urged Western governments to discount them. “That information, I don’t know what it is and how it is confirmed,” said Giga Bokeria, Georgia’s deputy foreign minister. “There is such an amount of evidence of continuous attacks on Georgian-controlled villages and so much evidence of Russian military buildup, it doesn’t change in any case the general picture of events.”



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/world/europe/07georgia.html

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"... And I told him that I know I speak for every American when I say to him, ' Today , we are all Georgians,'" McCain

[Xipe Totec]

1. Colin Powell Disses McCain on Georgia Russia Conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u224oMuAEr8

[Cirque du So-What]

2. Many here on DU knew this within days of the initial conflict

It takes three months for it to filter down to the corporate media? They prove their worthlessness every day in new and different ways.

[DRoseDARs]

3. What I don't understand is this stuff was reported within hours of the attacks beginning.

What bizarro parallel planet have I found myself on? I distinctly remember people talking about how Georgia waited until just after Putin got to Beijing for the Summer Games (like, within hours of his arrival) before attacking the breakaway province. Russia's response came later and was was reciprocal, not precipitating.

[DissedByBush]

5. Lots of questions in the lead-up

Russia sent in thousands of troops and moved tons of equipment over rail in the invasion of Georgia. That sounds normal. It gets interesting when you find that Russia repaired that critical rail line and prepositioned those troops WELL BEFORE Georgia attacked. Georgia's attack was not a surprise.

IMHO, Russia fomented rebellion to provoke a response and had the army ready to invade once that response happened. There were reports of Russian security agents stirring up trouble in South Ossetia a full year before the attack. But the Georgians didn't do well either with a poorly-planned, heavy-handed attack against the separatists.

[11cents]

4. We didn't know.

We speculated, and with good reason. But give me a break, DU posters didn't KNOW what was going on in South-fucking-Ossetia.

[go west young man]

6. Were you reading this same board?

I'm pretty sure I read at least 20 threads here where many DU'ers were well up on what was really going on there. Mainly due to the articles coming out of the UK press. Here's one for example. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2525400/Georgia-Russia-enters-into-war-in-South-Ossetia.html The U.S. press framed the war quite differently.

[dantyrant]

9. Some of us recognized BS when we see it.

It wasn't a hard call. Within 48 hrs enough info was out from enough sources to know we were being lied to.

[LynnTheDem]

14. Georgian forces attack Russian-backed separatists

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4481342.ece

Georgia's attack on South Ossetia threatens US control
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/11/georgia.russia3


A Free Press? Not This Time.

For years I have respected American newspapers for being independent. But no longer. Coverage of the conflict between Russia and Georgia has been unprofessional, to say the least.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/14/AR2008081403048.html

Georgia attacks South Ossetia, Russia responds by attacking Georgia
http://www.cjreport.com/news/4644/georgia-attacks-south-ossetia-russia-responds-attacking-georgia.html

Georgia invades South Ossetia, a pro-Russia anti-Georgia state
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3801578

Georgian president vows to reclaim 2 provinces
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3946258

[Andrushka]

7. Excatly my thoughts

This is news? Georgia was never as innocent as it and just about everyone else made out it was in this trouble.

[Foolacious]

10. The Canadian media

gave us this slant on the story more or less from the beginning. It was always my impression that there was plenty of blame on the Georgian side as well as the Russian. I didn't realise that that was not the picture being painted in the US media. So Georgia was held up as the innocent victim there?

[Norrin Radd]

8. Or sitting on the info. Which is what they were doing.

[frankieT]

11. I was one of them

Allmost all of the informations Georgia gave were bogus.

[MessiahRp]

13. Just as we knew Iraq did not have WMDs and how we would be perceived if we invaded

Yet the MSM and Congress chose to dismiss us and our record protesters as "focus groups" or irrational hippies or something.

As far as I can tell we've been 100% dead on when it comes to practically every big topic. We said, "don't let them wiretap, they'll abuse it". Congress ignored us and since then tons of abuses have slowly leaked out in the press. We said, "if they're redefining how torture is classified it's because they are using illegal torture procedures". Members of the WH, Congress and MSM were livid that the left would accuse the US of torture... and then Abu Ghraib came out, accounts from Gitmo got out and talk that there were secret prisons set up in other countries so we could torture surfaced.

We've been ahead of the curve on every single major news story. Maybe that's why intellectualism is not such a bad thing after all.

Rp

[Supersedeas]

15. strange how the Corporate Media thirsty for Petro Ad $$$ repeats the same mistakes

[formercia]

12. The reason for the Russian military buildup in North Ossetia

was that their intelligence networks in Georgia were warning them of the impending Georgian attack.

[cambie]

16. Scott Ritter's report:

http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=13733