Staph germs harder than ever to treat, studies say

[RedEarth]

Source: (AP)

WASHINGTON (AP) - Drug-resistant staph bacteria picked up in ordinary community settings are increasingly acquiring "superbug" powers and causing far more serious illnesses than they have in the past, doctors reported Monday. These widespread germs used to be easier to treat than the dangerous forms of staph found in hospitals and nursing homes.

"Until recently we rarely thought of it as a problem among healthy people in the community," said Dr. Rachel Gorwitz of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Now, the germs causing outbreaks in schools, on sports teams and in other social situations are posing a growing threat. A CDC study found that at least 10 percent of cases involving the most common community strain were able to evade the antibiotics typically used to treat them.

"They're becoming more resistant and they're coming into the hospitals," where they swap gene components with other bacteria and grow even more dangerous, said Dr. Keith Klugman, an infectious disease expert at Emory University. "It's really a major epidemic."



Read more: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081027/D9433RNG0.html

[KT2000]

1. Does anyone know

how to find out a hospital's infection rate of this sort of thing?

[Kittycat]

2. I'm sure you don't want to know.

My mom went in to the hospital nearly 8 weeks ago, due to an allergic reaction to cortizone. After 9 days in, she contracted staph & MRSA from a nurse/catheter. Granted, my mom is a diabetic and not in great health - but she ended up with Acute Renal Failure, which led to other, already stressed systems shutting down. She's now on a vent with a trach, on dialysis every other day, and can't get out of the bed. She's finally starting to show some signs of improvement, and insurance wants to transfer her 2.5 hours away from my family to put her in an acute care facility where she'll essentially just be 'monitored', not treated to get her off the vent or proper physical therapy. My dad has been trying to get insurance to hold off, but we don't know what will happen. She's been on antibiotics trying to rid of the infections now for 6.5 weeks. She'll be on them for 3 more weeks.

I should note that a majority of the rooms on the ICU wing she was in had 'contact precautions' in place. Meaning everyone had been infected with something. And I still have a 17 & 18yo brother and sister at home (I'm quite older, and live 3 hrs away).

[bulloney]

13. But, but the U.S. has the best health care system in the world. Your remarks are unpatriotic

and shows you support "socialized medicine" doncha know?

:sarcasm:

[sofa king]

15. Plus, you'll go to Hell for believing that staph can evolve.

[Psephos]

24. What does nosocomial infection have to do with socialized medicine?

Perhaps you know of some stats....

Meanwhile, public health administrators and epidemiologists attribute the long-term uptrend to the following:

Emphasis upon outpatient treatment means that those who remain in the hospital are sicker than historical standards. Hospitals lodge lots of people who are quite sick and whose immune systems are frequently weak.

Modern medical procedures increasingly bypass natural immune system barriers.

Patients are frequently over-prescribed antibiotics, often due to concerns over being sued, or to pressure from "internet smart" patients who demand them, which increases selection pressure for resistant bacterial genes. Meanwhile, cheap antibiotics in second- and third-world countries are used indiscriminately.

Hospital staff take shortcuts on handwashing, uniform cleaning, glove wearing, surface disinfection, and other tedious procedures.


Public health science should not be politicized. That moves us away from facts, not toward them. I can find no stats showing meaningful differentials between nosocomial infection rates in Western socialized and non-socialized medicine countries. If you know of some, by all means, link them.

[kcass1954]

3. My brother cut his finger on a job site (he's an architect), and

ended up with one of these. The cut looked normal for a few days, and then his finger blew up. It took nearly 3 months to get rid of it - lots of antibiotics (mostly stuff he had never heard of) and weekly visits to the doctor.

This worries me on a personal level. I have a ton of drug allergies, and only a couple of antibiotics that I can take.

I'm sorry about your mom, kittycat. The hospital is supposed to be where you go for healing. Good luck with the insurance fight.

Edited 'cuz I'm a doofus.

[snooper2]

16. I got a thorn or something in my knee a year ago...

it blew up and started hurting like a MO-FO

went to the doctor and he put me on all kinds of antibiotics and nothing worked. Did tests on the tissue and it came out that I had septic Prepatellar bursitis- All from a fucking thorn

Ended up having to be put under while he cut open my knee and removed the infection/tissue- You want to talk about pain after surgery :( :( :(

[Conveyor Belt]

4. CA vs HA

There are two types of MRSA, CA and HA. CA-Community Acquired and HA-Hospital Acquired. HA is much more pathogenic, but CA is starting to pick up some of the HA genes and becoming more pathogenic.

Sad thing is that we really are running out of drugs to combat these. Right now, the best we can do is a cocktail of IV antibiotics, and that only works to a point. Then, you have risk of secondary infections because the IV antibiotics knock out your normal flora, and it's just a cycle.

Diabetics, due to lower circulation, are much more susceptible to MRSA than non-diabetics.

I picked up MRSA from somewhere two years ago, and I think I'm colonized now. You can carry it as normal flora in your nose. And visitors to hospitals can carry it, too. And you visit your loved one and your colonized, and you can accidentally infect them...

MRSA is everywhere, but the CDC does have a good guideline that lays out how to eradicate MRSA, and it's worked, but it takes diligence on the part of hospitals and staff, and, I'm not sure that the cost of implementing the program and sticking to it, which takes years for eradication, is less than paying out for patients that get infected...

[Stardust]

5. Thank you for the info and welcome to DU, Conveyor Belt.

Funny name, BTW.

[du_grad]

6. Great info!

What Conveyor Belt says is totally correct. I am a hospital based microbiology technologist (M.T.(ASCP)). We see MRSA on a daily basis in our wound cultures. We do culture work for four different hospitals in our area. All of them have it. Our rates of MRSA vs. non-MRSA Staph. aureus isolates are about 60% MRSA/40% non-MRSA nowadays. On the lab lists I read, most hospitals run a similar rate. This is NOT the infection rate, just the percent of Staph isolates that are MRSA or not. I know Consumer Reports has a publication that talks about infection rates of hospitals. My contention, however, is that tertiary care hospitals (big med centers, including University based hospitals) will naturally have a higher infection rate than small community hospitals because they do bigger surgeries and have much sicker patients. In that context, it's hard to judge because if you have certain conditions that your small community hospital can't handle, you're going to go into a big hospital with more risk. So, if you read up on infection rates, keep this in mind.

My mother was recently in ICU twice after two subdural hematoma surgeries. I was obviously paranoid of her getting MRSA and/or other resistant bacteria, as our lab does the micro work for this hospital and I see the cultures. I let it be known to the surgeon up front that I didn't want to be working on a MRSA culture on my mother (half jokingly but I know he realized I was deadly serious). She had two lines installed while in the unit along with an indwelling urinary catheter and a drain coming out of her head. With four possible portals of infection I was worried, but all was well. She is a diabetic but her glucose is well controlled. She got out with no post-op infections.

My advice to anyone with families in ICU units is this: WASH YOUR HANDS A LOT. Do NOT take kids into ICU waiting rooms. They won't let kids into ICU units, but I was amazed at the people who camped out in the waiting rooms with infants. Ugh! I didn't want to go into the waiting rooms at all, what with kiddie germs and ICU germs all over the place. I used the hand gel dispensers ALL the time and washed my hands when I left the unit before I went to eat. Keep your hands away from your mouths and noses when in hospitals and in nursing homes. Some of the most resistant bacteria we see in urinary tract infections are from nursing home patients. Don't take little kids to nursing homes if you can help it. If you have to take older kids, make them wash their hands with soap and water when you leave.

I'm not a fanatic by any means but I try to be careful in these situations. Human beings carry Staph. aureus in their anterior nares, i.e. the front of the inside of their nostrils. They do not cause infections there - it's called colonization. About 15% of the population carries Staph. organisms there. From there we p**k our noses and spread these bacteria around on surfaces where other humans touch them and p**k their noses and put them into colonization status. This is why this organism spreads so easily. Watch little kids and how often they are touching their face, hands, and nose with total disregard to hygiene, and you can see how easily this stuff spreads to patients whose immune systems are bad (good reason to use those wipes in supermarkets before you shop). This includes diabetics, transplant patients, leukemia patients, cancer patients, patients with HIV, etc. etc. Nurses should be wearing gloves when they change dressings, catheters, etc. and washing hands afterward. Doctors can easily spread bugs via dirty stethoscopes they fling around their neck. Docs are the MOST non-compliant when it comes to hand washing, and this has been documented in many studies. Don't be afraid to insist that doctors who examine your loved one in a hospital must wash their hands. Don't be afraid to complain if you see gross disregard of infection control policies. Hospitals take this very seriously, as they lose money if patients acquire infections after they are admitted.

Hospitals are starting to culture high risk patients for MRSA colonization. Our hospital does it on pre-open heart patients. We also screen patients coming in and out of ICU units for Acinetobacter, which is another very resistant organism that we see. I believe the time will come when every patient will be screened upon admission. Some hospitals are already doing it.

Ask surgeons before surgery what their rates of complications due to infection are. Some surgeons are much more careful in this regard than others, believe me. Ask them what pre-op prophylactic antibiotics they use. This will let them know you are going to be paying attention to your loved one's post-op course.

[KT2000]

20. Thank You!!

lots of good info here.

[quidam56]

7. The Commonwealth of Virginia and the state of Tennessee find this to be quite acceptable health care

According to the East Tennessee State Facility Li censure agent Randi Blair, even though the health care your family gets can be "horrifying" but deemed acceptable and the hospital is allowed to run false, fraudulent, misleading ads. Wellmont Health Care Systems sent my father back into this community with the hospital/nursing home acquired staph he got after laying and rotting to death for ten months. He had "the super-bug" MRSA which we are hearing so much about lately. Wait until you start hearing about VRE. Apparently The University of Tennessee Nursing Department is teaching when you have a post surgical patient and are told to watch for a bleed. The patient is getting confused, sweating profusely, blood pressure dropping, sugar level almost 600, heart rate increasing, check the room temperature, that could have been the problem. That's pure wrong and if this is being taught by Nurse Boyd at UT Nursing program I'd sure like to see her syllabus for this situation.

The following site will take you to information on what is deemed acceptable health care in E. TN and SWVA. Feet rotting off, a bedsore you could easily put a grapefruit in... ACCEPTABLE in Tennessee and Virginia ! http://www.wisecountyissues.com

[geomon666]

8. We can thank the health nuts and pharmaceutical companies for this.

Pushing antibacterial everything. Oh you have a cold? Here's some antibiotics. Oh you're not sick? Well have some anyway and boost that immune system.

[WriteDown]

17. Yes.....

damn that penicillin, haha. :eyes:

[geomon666]

18. Well if you're using penicillin to fight a simple chest cold.

You're doing more harm than good and hurting other people when that cold mutates and resists the penicillin more and more.

[WriteDown]

19. The antibiotic use for a cold...

islimited to secondary infections and can be still be very useful. Bacteria was always going to evolve regardless how many hand cleansers came on the market. Lets not forget that 100 years ago that influenza was the biggest killer(disease) in the world. Times have definitely improved.

[geomon666]

21. We're headed that way again.

Bacteria is becoming more and more resistant and that's due to basically blowing up the house in order to kill the roaches.

[WriteDown]

22. Lets not exaggerate....

We have a few bad bugs that are still around, but we are far, far away from those dark times 100 years ago.

[kcass1954]

25. 20 years ago, I had a friend who took her kids to the same pediatrician I did.

She found a new doctor when the old one stopped writing antibiotic prescriptions without seeing the children. Her theory was, "I know when my kids are sick." And my response was always, "So do I, but I don't know when they need antibiotics."

[Ferret Annica]

9. A book by George R. Stewart called Earth Abides set in the 1940s

envisioned a world who's population is decimated by a super bug. I always thought that book was prophetic.

It is also extremely well written, I recommend it.

[Eurobabe]

10. My assistant lost her Dad 2 yrs ago before Xmas

they weren't sure what it was that took his life until 6 weeks later when an infection claimed her mother too. Seems the Dad was highly infected with Staph, and they mother got it from caring from him at home, so she had an underlying infection that blew up after the stress of her husband passing away.

It was very hard for P. to lose both of her parents in such a short period of time, and she was furious at the hospital for putting the entire family in danger. Rightly so.

[Oldenuff]

11. Time to explore other options?

Chemicals in Marijuana May Fight MRSA
http://www.webmd.com/news/20080904/m...may-fight-mrsa

Antibacterial Cannabinoids from Cannabis sativa
http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.c...np8002673.html

Killing bacteria with cannabis
http://arstechnica.com/journals/scie...-with-cannabis

Marijuana Ingredients Show Promise In Battling Superbugs
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/120477.php


How pot may win the war against super-bacteria
http://healthcare.zdnet.com/?p=1324

New medical uses found for marijuana
http://media.www.dailyfreepress.com/...-3435667.shtml


Wait a minute..Cannabis is bad...right? (unless you are a big Pharma company and can synthesize it) Excuse my rant,but I have zero respect for the politicians who either are ignorant about Cannabis,or feel they have the right to decide what you and I,as adults,can do in our own homes.(and that includes Biden,who is another "anti drug warrior").I'll have to hold my nose when voting for Obama/Biden,and it's because I don't support Bidens stance on drugs...eor

[wroberts189]

12. great info thx n/t

[DeSwiss]

14. Thank you!

I've been posting similar threads for a while too. The answers are all around us and yet we allow ourselves to be lead like sheep to BIG PHARMA and their sycophants in Congress:

The below research links are to articles, scientific studies and abstracts which report that the tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabinoids in marijuana can halt the spread the MRSA bacteria and numerous other types of cancer cells -- including:

MRSA: http://www.webmd.com/news/20080904/marijuana-chemicals-may-fight-mrsa

Prostate Cancer: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T36-3XFTGPR-X&_coverDate=09%2F24%2F1999&_alid=422767905&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=4938&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1c29920efb1acb800723560310e9004e

Breast Cancer: http://mct.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/6/11/2921

Lung Cancer: http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v27/n3/abs/1210641a.html

Pancreatic Cancer: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/13/6748

Brain Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16804518

And in addition to the cancer research, here's a report from an Austrailian newspaper about a French study that found that cannabidiol in marijuana may prevent the development of prion diseases such as BSE because it inhibits the accumulation of prion proteins in infected mice and sheep. Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22430980-23109,00.html

- When will someone in a "LEADERSHIP" position speak up???

P.S. A couple of your links are broken....

K&R

[Oldenuff]

23. Here are the working links..

Thanks DeSwiss for alerting me to my error regarding the broken links.
My apologies for the broken links everyone..shame on me for not testing them first.The article on new medical uses is no longer available.Sorry also that the edit period has expired and I cannot correct in my original post,but here they are for anyone that happens along.

Chemicals in Marijuana May Fight MRSA
http://www.webmd.com/news/20080904/marijuana-chemicals-...

Antibacterial Cannabinoids from Cannabis sativa
http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/jnprdf/2008/71/i08/abs/np8002673.html

Killing bacteria with cannabis
http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2008/08/26/killing-bacteria-with-cannabis
( I believe that the lung damage statement has been disproved)