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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:15 PM
Original message
Oil discovery could put Cuba in big league
Edited on Sat Oct-18-08 01:34 PM by cal04
Source: CBS Marketwatch

Cuba's oil reserves may be substantially larger than originally estimated, according to reports. Cuban energy officials have said that the country may have over 20 million barrels of recoverable oil in its offshore fields in the Gulf of Mexico. If confirmed, such reserves would put Cuba among the world's top 20 oil-producing nations.

Read more: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/oil-discovery-could-put-cuba/story.aspx?guid=%7B165B162C%2D1DA8%2D4BE4%2DB2F0%2DFBE1A4B21D2D%7D&dist=hplatest



20bn barrel oil discovery puts Cuba in the big league
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/18/cuban-oil
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. They could use the money
Wonderful people.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. You must mean billion.
No?
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes. 20 billion. Here's the corrected article link
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. It also gives Chimpy an excuse to attempt to finish up another one of his daddy's failed "projects"
No, Poppy never attacked Cuba when he was President. But he DID attack them when JFK was President (see "Bay of Pigs")
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree, it's just another treaty.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. They knew about the oil then..
It's always about the oil. Even Viet Nam was about the oil. The problem was the oil in the South China Sea turned out to be in Chinese territorial waters. They found that out about the time Nixon, with a little prodding from George HW Bush, decided that while communists in Viet Nam were bad, communists in the People's Republic of China were good. And so China Oil was born. While no one was looking of course.

The American people, both Democrats and Republicans, are really not the brightest light bulbs at times.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. You just explained a 40 year-old mystery to me.
In 1968 I was en route to an R&R in Australia, and was sitting in a bar in Cam Ranh Bay, where I struck up a conversation with a guy who turned out to be an oil geologist. He told me he was part of a crew exploring the S. China Sea, and they were finding strong evidence of amazingly large deposits out there. Therefore when Nixon started talking about that oil 5 years later as a reason to keep the war going, I was not surprised. But then a curtain of silence seemed to fall over the whole thing. Now I have "the rest of the story."
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Nor are people who hang out on DU yet praise reagan.
NT!

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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. ...or reflect wishful thinking for the purpose of raising capital
The article suggests that this field is similar in structure and size to Cantarell. Anyone in the field would probably take this with a grain of salt, as the unique qualities of Cantarell are generally agreed to be the result of an asteroid impact, in the perfect time and place to build an easily pumped out oil reservoir. Its a one-off, and its unlikely that Cuba has found another.

On the other hand, any gulf find requires years of development and millions/billions of dollars. I am sure Cuba has found a good field, but may be having trouble getting anything off the ground as far as developing it.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. They are doing joint devo already, but not with the US. We have laws against that.
Spain, China, the Soviets, Canada, any number of different entities are capable of petroleum technology.

Cuba is on the same asteroid impact feature as Cantarell.

http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg35696.html

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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I would think that the geology is significantly different
as would the effects of the impact...Cantarell is in the Bay of Campeche, west of the impact center. Cuba is on the other side of the Yucatan Peninsula, well NE of impact. But what I "would think" is subject to modification, of course.

My initial skepticism arises from having read so many of these sorts of press releases over the years, only to have them fold under later scrutiny. Nothing against Cuba - I am glad they have a good field and hope it goes well with them - but if things go as normal then within two weeks or so we will have a second set of realistic reserve and production figures which will still be good, but nothing world-changing.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Read the link. Cuba moved!
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Well, that explains it!
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Mendocino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. That is why I can now see
Cuba from my house. I have foreign policy experience.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. If It's Confirmed As A Good Field, There Will Be Development Money Available

Trust me on that.....
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Hulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. GOOD for Cuba!! God knows they can use the revenue.
Maybe we'll be invading Cuba soon now, eh?
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. How much trouble do you think THIS will cause!?
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. United States of America, Puerto Rico & Cuba
Just a hunch
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. awesome
I hope it's true. Maybe this will inspire the US government to stop the absolutely insane, grudge-induced, embargo we have against Cuba.
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. This is awesome . . .
I hope it is true and maybe this will inspire the US government to stop the absolutely insane policy of not allowing drilling off our gulf coast, since Cuba will be doing it!
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. So this is why we've had a Cuban embargo since the 60's


It makes sense now.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Not even a little.
And yet, without oil, they managed to provide healthcare for their people.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. So when does Bush Co start the invasion call?
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I don't know but if they have oil, they are definitely belong in axis of evil.
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Nambe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. They already invaded! Castro was their puppet. The strings broke.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. Brazil, Spain, Venezuela, other countries have all been involved in working on Cuba's oil by now.
The U.S. embargo gave other countries and their countries a much better chance to become connected without being shoved out by mega-US-interests.

Even Russia has been involved in surveying the ocean floor at great depths around Cuba. People are all over the place there. Everyone except non-Cuban-Americans, that is!
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Cuban people could really use some money. They have
suffered too much.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. So it is okay to drill in Cuba
but not Florida or California?

Just askin'.
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Pterodactyl Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. They should say NO to offshore drilling!
Why ruin their environment? For oil money? Some things are more important. Cuba is a natural wonder, largely untouched by capitalism, and it should be preserved for future generations.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Has Hugo destroyed the enviornment? well........ moot point.
Nothing to see down there that is bad or destroying for the ecology with government checks in place.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Lake Maracaibo
"..Produsal, a joint venture between Venezuelan state-owned oil company Petróleos de Venezuela and U.S. company Cargill, is the main offender, according to Delgado. He said since Produsal came into existence in 1995, it has caused serious environmental damage, mostly due to the large amounts of bittern it produces, a toxic byproduct of salt production.

The kind of salt being produced by Produsal in its Lake Maracaibo facility is necessary for pumping the oil out of oil wells.

"Venezuela is Venezuela because of the oil," Delgado said. "And without salt, there is no oil."

http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2006/09/11/Feature/Grad-Student.Researches.Venezuelan.Pollution-2264632.shtml

You can't really do any of this stuff without some kind of damage to the earth.
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Pterodactyl Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. OK. I was wrong. I agree with you now. Drill, baby, drill!!!!!!
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. top 20 oil producers ( USA # 3 ) Qatar was #20
If confirmed, such reserves would put Cuba among the world's top 20 oil-producing nations.

Country Production (MBD)

1. Saudi Arabia- 10,413,000

2. Russia- 9,978,000

3. USA- 6,879,000

4. Iran- 4,401,000

5. China- 3,743,000

6. Mexico- 3,477,000

7. Canada- 3,309,000

8. U.A.E- 2,915,000

9. Kuwait- 2,626,000

10. Venezuela- 2,613,000

11. Norway- 2,556,000

12. Nigeria- 2,356,000

13. Iraq- 2,145,000

14. Algeria- 2,000,000

15. Libya- 1,848,000

16. Brazil- 1,833,000

17. Angola- 1,723,000

18. UK- 1,636,000

19. Kazakhstan- 1,490,000

20. Qatar- 1,197,000



http://www.peakoil.com/post738588.html

But the top five proven reserves

OPEC Proven Crude Oil Reserves (in billions of barrels)

Saudi Arabia … 264.2
Iran … 136.3
Iraq … 115
Kuwait … 101.5
United Arab Emirates … 97.8

http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/most_powerful_oil_countries

20 billion is high but it will take a huge investment in oil infrastructure to start searching for the truth in confirming this oil is actually there.

BUT
A few months back there were threads about oil off the coast of Brazil.
"Experts" said Brazil claimed to find a major field was just folly...... it ain't so,
so don't even bother to look or waste the $.

If there is enough oil to keep the country independant of current sources,they would be self sufficient.,maybe sell a barrel or two to afford items they normally couldn't afford otherwise?

Just drill

Think of the spin offs in what those artificial reefs can do in shallow warm waters. Don't sweat the odds of an oil spill off Cuban coast. I'm sure they will do just fine.


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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. If the find is as they describe it they might wind up #8 or so
Edited on Sat Oct-18-08 10:22 PM by bhikkhu
Assuming all other things remain the same (which they won't).

The article suggests the geology is about the same as Cantarell, which was one of the biggest and easiest to pump reservoirs ever found. If it is 20 billion barrels, they might expect a 3 mbpd flow, even without any fancy extraction technology. That would put them in the major leagues, particularly if we look at where Cuba would fall 10 years down the road when everyone else on that list will be in serious decline and they would still be on the easy ramp-up.

But having seen wild optimism too many times, I would rather guess that its a 10 billion barrel reservoir which is unlike Cantarell, and will take significant investment to bring online. In which case it is still a very good thing for Cuba and the whole region (hopefully), but not a world-changer.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. "Think of the spin offs in what those artificial reefs can do in shallow warm waters"
Alternately:

"Think of what the warm water, due to global warming caused by the oil pumped from those artificial reefs, can do."

Just don't drill, if you give a damn at all about future generations.
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. "Just don't drill, if you give a damn at all about future generations."
Amen. Save it for later, when/if there are absolutely no alternatives.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yep. Petroleum is too valuable to simply burn
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KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
32. Good for them.
However, since we have had such cruel policies toward them, we won't see any of thier oil. Unless that changes they'll tell us to fuck off and then probably sell to China.
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
34. Before you jump on the bandwagon
These are just estimates to begin with as the article claims "Its oil is more than a mile deep under the ocean and difficult and expensive to extract". They may never get much oil from this reserve and may take many years to drill here.. I don't look for Cuba to become an oil exporting nation in my lifetime..
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. I have only one thing to say to this.
AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:

So... About that trade embargo...
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
38. Drill baby Drill!
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. good one - that made me laugh
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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. So what? The US has a 20 trillion barrel reserve
All those hydrocarbons on Titan. Just need a little ol' pipeline...

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
43. Good for Cuba! Viva la Revolucion. Viva Fidel!
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
44. Are there WMDs in Cuba yet?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Believe it or not, Bush people have charged Cuba is making dual-use biological material
in its world-famous medical research laboratories!

When former President Jimmy Carter was preparing to go to Cuba several years ago (and where he addressed the entire country live by radio and tv) he went to the White House first to discuss the trip with the Bush people, and he asked them, since they had been claiming Cuba just might be a terrorist nation if they had dual-use biological material, IF Bush considered them a threat, and did they have this kind of weapon. He was told, "NO."

The very night before Jimmy Carter was scheduled to go to Havana, George W. Bush sent John Bolton to give a speech at the Heritage Foundation, where he announced to the world that Cuba was making dual-use biological weapons! This put a hideous cast over former President Jimmy Carter's arrival.

When he got to Cuba he immediately took up the subject with them, was taken to their laboratories, was shown all OVER the place, and he was invited to bring any and all experts of his choice who were familiar with the science involved to come to Cuba and inspect the whole operation, any time of his choice. Forever. Standing invitation.

Of course, not willing to give up a perfectly great charge, Bush's people continued to claim Cuba was a dangerous terroristic threat. This charge alternated with claiming Cuba is a human trafficking mecca, and Cuba is also a place where childen are turned out as prostitutes, and Cuba is a hotbed of Basque terrorists, and Cuba is a enabler, and friend of the FARC. ETC., ETC., ETC. They probably also accused Cuba of being pro-Islamic. Of course they've always wanted to tell people Cuba persecutes religion, regardless of the facts. There are other charges they throw at Cuba, also, but I can't quickly remember them all!



Found an article which addresses this visit!
Carter questions timing of U.S. accusations against Cuba
May 14, 2002 Posted: 2:04 PM EDT (1804 GMT)

HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter has urged anyone alleging that Cuba may be trying to develop biological weapons and share that technology with other nations, to visit Cuba for a firsthand probe.

Carter -- on a historic trip to Cuba -- didn't specifically mention any accusers. But the Bush administration has alleged that the island nation is trying to develop biological weapons and is sharing that expertise to countries hostile to the United States.

White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer on Tuesday reiterated the administration's "concerns" over the sharing of technology with countries hostile to the United States. (Full story)

Carter, who is scheduled to visit an AIDS center and a farm cooperative Tuesday, plans to make a speech Tuesday night that will be broadcast throughout Cuba.

In comments Monday, Carter said there were no allegations made or questions raised about possible terrorist activities by Cuba when he was briefed before the trip by officials from the State Department, intelligence agencies and the White House.

"I asked them specifically on more than one occasion: 'Is there any evidence that Cuba has been involved in sharing any information with any other country on Earth that could be used for terrorist purposes?'

"And the answer from our experts on intelligence was 'no,'" Carter said.
More:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/05/14/carter.visit/index.html






Salon:
~snip~
For Castro, the world's foremost media strategist now toiling with his tenth U.S. administration, Carter's visit has been yet another successful coup fought on the age-old battlefield of newsprint. On the heels of being added to the Axis of Evil by his enemies in Washington, who accused him supporting bio-terrorism -- a move timed to interfere with Carter's visit -- Castro got the respected former president to go to bat for him. In a courageous speech Carter challenged the United States to produce evidence of Cuban terrorism and insisted there was none. Of course, Castro also let Carter take to the Cuban airways and talk about democracy and human rights, knowing the openness would play well internationally and not change much domestically. Through it all, Castro had his eye on the prize: Carter's trip is the latest salvo in a battle to bring back American tourists, and while the battle hasn't yet been won, the P.R. value of the visit is enormous.

In March 1977, at a time when Cuba was enduring a stretch of poverty very similar to today's, one of Carter's first acts was to lift the controversial travel ban on Americans. With the entire economy hingeing on Soviet subsidies, the Cuban people's faith in Castro's abilities as an economist had begun to wane before then. The only way out of the mess was to take a stab at tourism as a means to earn the island some hard currency. So the Varadero peninsula, two hours east of Havana, was earmarked in 1976 as Cuba's first acre of paradise, quarantined specifically for capitalist tourism.

Only 2,500 tourists visited Varadero in 1977. The next year, after Carter lifted the travel ban, the number rocketed to 18,000 -- mostly American tourists who came to indulge on the sweetest ribbon of Cuban sand. It was so profitable that the government began banking heavily on tourism as the next big thing, hoping to turn the island into the Caribbean's new Hawaii.

~snip~
Enter Jimmy Carter. Castro has been making concessions to the United States since January 1999, when President Clinton began negotiations. He's courted the U.S. agricultural sector, which has pushed to open trade with this potential $6 billion food market. He's even reached out to President Bush, expressing sympathy after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and not interfering in any way with the U.S. development of the Guantanamo Bay base to house and interrogate al-Qaida prisoners. But he was getting nowhere with a Republican administration beholden to Cuban-exile voters and right-wing ideologues. So in late 2001, Castro made two moves: He purchased $30 million of corn from Louisiana -- despite having promised that he'd never purchase "a single grain" of U.S. food until the travel ban was lifted -- and he invited Carter to visit.

The timely allegations of the undersecretary of state for international security, John Bolton -- that Cuba was providing bio-weapons to the so-called rogue nations of Iran and Libya -- were an obvious Miami-orchestrated attempt to derail Carter's trip, to keep the lid on any agitation to lift the travel ban, and to quash further agricultural trade.

Carter saw through this gambit. He's seen it all before. In 1977, shortly after he lifted the travel ban, "60 Minutes" aired a segment called "The Castro Connection," which alleged that Castro was involved with running drugs for the Medellin cartel through Cuba and into the United States. That charge was a staple of Reagan's policy toward Cuba, and as the Cold War morphed into the war on drugs, Cuba was forced to remain on military alert. The object of war is to never allow the enemy to rest, and Cuba got very little sleep between 1980 and 1999. But in 1999, after finding no evidence -- other than hearsay from convicted felons in Miami -- that Cuba had ever run drugs, White House drug czar Barry McCaffrey scratched Cuba off the drug-trafficking watch list, and Drug Enforcement Administration officials, along with Coast Guard staff, traveled to Cuba to begin negotiating cooperative efforts in U.S.-Cuba drug interdiction. Cuba's removal from the drug-watch list was a major blow to anti-Castro conservatives.

Then came Sept. 11. The war on terror replaced the war on drugs, and anti-Cuban animus had to be recast as part of the nation's fight against terrorists. But rather than be cowed by the allegation that Castro was behind bio-terrorism, the seasoned Carter got pugnacious, denying the charge and demanding that the United States provide evidence.
More:
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/05/16/carter_cuba/index1.html
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
46. Watch how fast that embargo is lifted once that oil starts pumping
Since this country will be the prime market for them to export it to. Oil politics trumps almost all other politics it seems, so watch how fast the repubs abandon the Miami exile movement for the oil.

I think it would be good for them and for us. Cuba surely deserves to be a country whose people can have a nice standard of living. I worry because traditionally, going back more than 100 years, big money in Cuba has meant big corruption. I hope history does not repeat itself and the money helps the little guy.
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