G.M. Said to Seek Merger With Ford Before Chrysler

[Omaha Steve]

Source: NY Times

By BILL VLASIC

DETROIT — Before General Motors began exploring a possible merger with Chrysler — talks that first came to light on Friday — G. M. proposed a similar deal with its other cross-town rival, the Ford Motor Company, two people with knowledge of the talks said Saturday.

G. M. executives approached Ford about a possible merger in July, but Ford rejected the idea and ended the discussions last month, these people said.

After Ford decided to remain independent amid an increasingly difficult auto market, G. M. turned its attention to Chrysler. For the last month, it has been in preliminary merger talks with Chrysler’s owner, the private-equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

People with knowledge of the talks described the chances of a deal as “50-50.”


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/business/12auto.html?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043

[Barack_America]

1. That's like the Capulets merging with the Montagues.

And that attempted merger ended in mutual suicide.

It's probably best that Ford turned them down.

[LeftyMom]

2. We need to keep a close eye on any gov't money used to sweeten this deal.

A lot of connected Republicans work for or are connected with Cerebrus.

[flvegan]

3. I'll say it

While I like competition, and the "big 3" have done it for a long time, ANY merger/move that would increase American production of cars, etc and would create American jobs, union jobs, I'd be thrilled to death for.

[MidwestTransplant]

4. It would only produce more jobs to the extent it kept either from going bankrupt.

Otherwise tons of jobs would be lost in the merger. It may be the best possible outcome though.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

7. how does this do any of that?

all this deal will do is expedite job cuts that are already more or less inevitable. No industry on earth has ever done more to earn its own oblivion than the American auto industry. When you combine two worthless corporations, be they airlines, car makers, banks or anything else all you get is an even larger, more worthless corporation.

Things are made even worse by the fact all sorts of horrible policies are enacted that are supposed to protect those who have been deemed to large to fail and those sabotage the healtier small companies that might take the place of the giant worthless ones.

[flvegan]

10. No idea. I'm simply

pledging support for an idea IF it does what I suggested.

It's called hope.

[midnight armadillo]

21. How can I put this...

...such a merger would be suicide. Chrysler is dead in the water - their products suck, their designs suck, their marketing sucks, their management sucks. The only cars they produce that anyone would notice if they stopped being made are the Viper (which is for sale) and the Wrangler. This merger is the equivalent of GM grabbing an anchor when they are drowning.

GM and Ford need to go Chapter 11, dump their pensions and health care on the feds, and work on producing smaller, more efficient cars. Ford, at least, gets the need to make this manufacturing shift, thanks to Mulally. GM shows glimmers of understanding, although they inexplicably keep Wagoner at the helm. As for Chrysler? They'll go under, and sell some factories to Magna-Steyr. Their end came when they were bought by Daimler.

[Diclotican]

5. Omaha Steve

Omaha Steve

All this mergers.... And still for the last 20 year or so, no american car manufactures have been make an decent car who are cheap on petrol, and who are not a 3 tonne truck who are more and less an nightmare when driven on winter... I doubt that US automaker have made a great car since the middle of 1980s. Not for the ordinary people then. But you still make some of the greates Muscle car in the world... And I for one still love the sound of an angry sounding V8.. But I know that I would not afford to have one, not at this time of my life anyway.. Maybe if I won in the lottery:P

If the US car manufactures would go back to something they once was great at. Made great cars, who in this modern time of world even was using far less petrol than many others.. Then, just maybe then the US car manufactures would survive and prosper.. But when you are not been known to make a car that is affable for the rest of the world, then it is rather impossible to survive in the end..

An example.. If you decide to get an american Car here in Norway, you have to pay at least 350.000 NK or maybe 450.000 if you want one of this Trucks that I can se on the roads.. No SUV, Truck or other I have seen, or know about drive 1 L pr metric mile.. When you can get an Japanese Truck for 350.000 and then even get a greater mileage.. What do you an man/woman with the need for an truck get?. A oversize, overpriced american, or a lot more meaner and less expensive Japanese?:. I for one would take the Japan made car over the american.. Not because I don't live american, I do, but beouse I can get a far better mileage with the other car..

But, if you have the money, and are not worrying about the price of petrol..Then the big SUV or the 3 tonne tuck from GM or Ford a rather interesting prospect.. With the low dollar to Norwegian Krone it is maybe even worth get that truck, because it is pretty cheap compared to 3-4 year ago..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[ForrestGump]

6. Uh-oh...cue DainBramaged

:hide:


Sorry, my friend; you're about to be visited by an Ugly American.

You should have just stayed quiet and Bought American. That's the problem with you foreigners...you're not very patriotic Americans. :D

[Diclotican]

13. ForrestGump

ForrestGump

he he, I am not afraid of been visited by an ugly american... I like americans, both their cars and their self.. But if you have to survive, as an nation and as car manufactures, you have to build cars also the rest of the world want.. EVEN IF it means, you have to build cars who joe doe is not accepted to use.. Like the compact cars, who have been a rolling sucess in Europe and most part of the world for more than 20 year now.. Wel, for more than 30 in fact..

Well I have never been afraid of sticking my neck out;). And I would not start to be afraid.. When it come to be patriotic, I would guess it is more to it, then to consume a bad product:evilgrin:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[TankLV]

12. If I could write or speak 1/10th as well as you have, I would die a happy man...

never assume you don't write well.

You may not be perfect, but you write a lot better than most of the repuke yahoos voting for mcINSANE and dumber...

[Diclotican]

14. TankLV

TankLV

Thank you;).. You can thank the public education system we still have here, for what it is worth:evilgrin: I guess my old teacher at school was doing something right when she was trying to get into my dear little head the principles of english language.. And it was not an easy task:P.. But I some how managed to do it.. Even that I never excelled in english exactly.
And it is also meant as an warning for the grammar police, to when they think I am to far out they could understand that I am not native to english. If I was, I would possible write better, i hope..

My grammar is far from perfect I guess.. But I get the message out..And compared to many "republicans" who are afraid of education, and want a stupid blond (are she an real blonde?) to be the vice-president.. And a heartbeat away fom being the next president.. Good grief what this country of you have become when you want a nuttcase as your next vice president.. McCain i feel just sorry for.. he is old and his age is showing off.. He deserve some dignity in his last couple of life.. Not an job, where he are just heating the chair for a blond bitch with lipstick.. (sorry Palin but that is what I feel about you)..

What I have problems with, is some who are cutting words every now and then, I have to say I am more sure when they are at least writing in real sentences.. And I have on some times experienced the whole cutting of words.. Horrible to read, and rather difficult to understand.. Can not believe how hard it can be to in fact understand...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[lithiumbomb]

8. i'm not sure what any of them has to gain

Look at their product portfolios. GM has the following divisions in the US market: Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, Saturn, Saab, and GMC Trucks. A merger with GM would add Dodge, Chrysler, Dodge Trucks, and Jeep. That's a huge pile of brands in a contracting market from two companies that already have too many brands. Both of these companies need to slash and burn their portfolios (GM should probably have cars, trucks, and Cadillac), not make more. Think of British Leyland in the 1960s. They threw all of the failing British car companies into one big pile so that they could spend another decade failing together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Motor_Corporation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Leyland

The remnants are:
The Mini. Turned into a Brand by BMW.
Land Rover. Sold by Ford to Tata in India
Jaguar. Sold by Ford to Tata in India
MG. Owned by the Chinese. Mostly chinese market only, with a few MG TFs being built in England.
Rover. Renamed Rowoe (Ford owns the name 'Rover', somehow). Chinese. Currently Chinese market only.

[Kalifornia.Kid]

9. GM / FORD vs. GM / CHRYSLER

There goes my dream for a Mustangamaro or would it have been a Camarostang.



I'll have to settle for a Challenmaro or would that be a Camaroallenger.

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0807_12z+dodge_challenger_shelby_GT500+front_view.jpg

[happyslug]

11. Makes sense, Ford is profitable overseas, and bigger then GM overseas

Globally, Ford fell to the fourth-ranked spot after Volkswagen based on 2007 sales. Ford is the overall seventh-ranked American-based company in the 2007 Fortune 500 list, based on global revenues in 2007 of $172.5 billion.<3> In 2007 Ford produced 6.553 million automobiles and employed about 245,000 employees at around 100 plants and facilities worldwide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford

In 2008 Ford moved back to #3 Automotive producer (beating out VW) but is still behind Toyota and GM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue

Furthermore Ford has several models that are considered superior to what GM is producing (Ford's large US cars are preferred by US Police Departments). The Ford Explorer was the #1 selling cars for over a decade (it has been replaced by the Ford Escape).

As a whole Ford has a series of small cars (Made overseas, but they have the blueprints) thus Ford can shift during the present oil crisis something GM, with its greater concentration in the US, is less able to do so. Ford saw no advantages to any merger with GM, so GM looked elsewhere.

[spag68]

15. Ford police care

They stuck with what they knew, that would be heavy v-8, rear wheel drive. The best thing Chrysler has is the hemi technology and the jeep brand. IN case you haven't checked lately Buick is in the top 3 for reliability and fit and finish. The trucks already can be had in hybrid form and get respectable mileage. I personally have a Solstice The fit is good ,ride is acceptable, and pickup is fair. After letting the average frul used fun for five tanks, it has steadied in at 20.8, and will get better.Pontiac has a number of models that get over 30, so what is the bitching all about?I have a 93 Accord with 110886 on it and is still going strong, after a timing belt, water pump, and a distributer. The windshield washer has been broken and seemingly un fixable. It gets about 24 mpg around town and 28-30 on the HY.It has been a great car, but the new Buick Lucern my sis-in-law is buying is really a good car, and the price negotiated Will surprise many of you. It's about the same as we paid for the honda in 1993. Even that car was made in Marysville OHIO The best of all is a 1500 Vulcan 1500 V twin<1500cc and 45 MPG Can't have more fun on wheels. Also made in the USA There is opportunity for our company's to get back their mojo fut it won't be easy. Start with the best of both company's, this has ti be dine to save what is good about our cars and trucks Build the volt and build it faster, it will sell. Besides you can use it to run electricity into your house a night What ever happened to the GEO Metro? A really small car for sure[really a suzuki> over 50 MPG with four people.Surely we can do these things, Maybe the engineers will make some progress towards better cars as the mergers happen.You might come out meaner and leaner and if the top guys agree to take a reasonable wage, it can be done quickly.


WE still have the ability to build the best Cars in the world, takes hard work innovation and an ability to accept a challenge.

[AndyTiedye]

16. Ford Has Been Building a Very Nice Hybrid SUV For Several Years Now

They should have put that hybrid powerplant into more of their line.

According to the EPA, the most fuel-efficient AND least-polluting American car is this SUV.

[lithiumbomb]

18. the Crown Vic is far from all they know...

"They stuck with what they knew, that would be heavy v-8, rear wheel drive."

Have you even looked at what you can buy from Ford in the US today and in other markets? The Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car are an _ancient_ platform and are currently sold nearly entirely to fleets. They are not big sellers and are not their halo cars by any stretch. They happen to be making them, and there is still a small market for them. They will all be gone within the next 12-24 months as production winds down. They have stayed on the market as the Crown Vic makes a cheap robust police car and taxi. The Town Car is heavily used by the livery industry. The Grand Marquis is built on the same line so it lives on thanks to the other two. An ancient car sold to fleets (very few options, nearly all the configurations are the same)is a money maker since the investment in the platform was paid for many years ago.

Their US lineup could use a some help (the injection of their European models to the US market will hopefully work out), but their 30 year old RWD Panther platform is far from representative of their entire portfolio.

[CRF450]

19. Right many police officers and local sheriffs are driving Dogde Chargers now.

While many state troopers are switching to Chevy Tahoes. Yeah the Crown Vics are way dated and should be scrapped. They are some smooth riding cars and, get decent fuel milage, my dad's 97 with the 4.6 v8 gets around 22-23mpg. Its the only car I know of that hasent seen a major change for prolly 15+ years.

[CRF450]

17. I highly doubt this will happen n/t

[704wipes]

20. I just thank God it's not Wendy's and Burger King in talks

Reagannomics made McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King the real Big 3.