STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday October 9

[ozymandius]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday October 9, 2008

COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 103
DAYS SINCE DEMOCRACY DIED (12/12/00) 2816 DAYS
WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2541 DAYS
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 2832
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 10
Enron execs conveniently deceased = 3
Other Arrests of Execs = 54

---

U.S. FUTURES &
MARKETS INDICATORS>
NASDAQ FUTURES-----------------------------S&P FUTURES

---

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200

In recognition of those prescient of the Dow's precipitous return of Bush values (9/29/08): JuneBourder and AnneD

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON October 8, 2008

Dow... 9,258.10 -189.96 (-2.01%)
Nasdaq... 1,740.33 -14.55 (-0.83%)
S&P 500... 984.94 -11.29 (-1.13%)
Gold future... 906.50 +24.50 (+2.78%)
30-Year Bond 4.06% +0.04 (+0.89%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.72% +0.21 (+5.96%)






GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver

---

PIEHOLE ALERT

Heads Up!
Preliminary info on appearances by Bush & Co. throughout the country. Details & links are added as they become available so check back. And if you know more, are organizing something, or would like to, contact [e-mail]

For information on protests and other actions Citizens For Legitimate Government

---

Read more: du

[ozymandius]

1. Market WrapUp

Are We There Yet?
BY CHRIS PUPLAVA

Over the past several months I have spent most of my time maintaining that tough times lay ahead and to become defensive. I have also been emphatic on ignoring Wall Street pundits who have been incredibly wrong in calling for a bottom in housing over the last several years, then in financials and the broad market, saying that subprime real estate was contained, maintaining the whole “decoupling” mantra, and denying that we are in a recession. The pundits have capitulated in calling a bottom in housing, some have capitulated in calling a bottom in financials, though many are still trying to call a bottom in the stock market.

I too have capitulated! I was so sickened but the bottom calls that I finally turned off CNBC in my office in utter disgust by anchors and guest appearances and the “Goldilocks” foolish espoused by Larry Kudlow and his guests. Most of the July and August WrapUps were devoted to keeping readers from believing the nonsense that July marked a bottom, and to keep readers from jumping headlong into the markets. To get a sense of how wrong the pundits have been, take a look at the article headlines from Don Luskin who appears frequently on Larry Kudlow’s show and their timeline with the S&P 500 over the last year and a half (Click for Luskin article archive). I don’t mean to pick on any one individual in particular; it’s just that Mr. Luskin’s calls are easily researched and reflective of financial pundits in general.

.....

I have had a very pessimistic tone over the last few months and have likely depressed many readers. The chief reason was to help protect reader’s capital by staying out of the markets and using rallies to exit if one was still invested. Today’s WrapUp will be a bit more balanced as I will show that we are still not at “THE” bottom but rather at or near “A” bottom, as well as show the light at the end of the tunnel. Central banks are now acting in a coordinated fashion by lowering interest rates globally, and the markets crashing over the past two weeks means that we are likely at or near an intermediate-term bottom in the markets. Nothing goes down or up indefinitely as the 2000-2003 bear market showed us with several double-digit counter trend rallies, and we are due for one now as the current sell off is long in the tooth.

While we are overdue for a corrective bounce we still have not seen the end to the current bear market.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

[Lasher]

5. The FTSE 100 is up 2%

That's pretty modest compared to the massive losses, but if this carries through to US equities, today might be a good day to get out of any stocks if you're still holding any.

[Roland99]

24. Well, as they were saying on CNBC, the markets are oversold.

There may be some bargains out there but I wouldn't be jumping in at this point.

[ozymandius]

2. Today's Reports

08:30 Initial Claims 10/04
Briefing.com 475K
Consensus 475K
Prior 497K

10:00 Wholesale Inventories Aug
Briefing.com 0.5%
Consensus 0.4%
Prior 1.4%

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm

[UpInArms]

186. Initial Claims @ 478,000 - last wk rev'd up 1,000

77. U.S. 4-wk. avg. continuing jobless claims rise to 3.56 mln
8:30 AM ET, Oct 09, 2008

78. U.S. continuing jobless claims rise 56,000 to 3.65 mln
8:30 AM ET, Oct 09, 2008

79. U.S. 4-wk. avg. jobless claims rise 8,250 to 482,500
8:30 AM ET, Oct 09, 2008

80. U.S. weekly jobless claims fall 20,000 to 478,000
8:30 AM ET, Oct 09, 2008

[UpInArms]

201. US Aug wholesale inventories up 0.8%, sales drop

http://www.reuters.com/article/economicNews/idUSN0929884920081009

WASHINGTON, Oct 9 (Reuters) - Inventories at U.S. wholesalers rose 0.8 percent in August, higher than what analysts had expected, while sales suffered their largest drop in more than a year and a half, a Commerce Department report showed on Thursday.

Wall Street analysts polled by Reuters had expected inventories to gain by only 0.5 percent, compared with a 1.5 percent rise in July that was previously reported as 1.4 percent.

Sales fell 1.0 percent after dropping 0.8 percent in July, which was originally reported as a much smaller decline of 0.3 percent. The last time they saw such a large drop was January 2007, when they fell 1.4 percent.

Plummeting sales and swelling inventories pushed up the inventories-to-sales ratio, a measure of how long it would take to sell stocks at the current sales pace, to 1.10 months' worth from 1.08 months' in July.

...more...

[ozymandius]

3. Oil prices skid to 2008 low on falling demand

NEW YORK - Oil prices closed down Wednesday after touching their lowest level this year, pressured by a huge jump in U.S. crude inventories and more signs of dwindling demand.

Light, sweet crude for November delivery fell $1.11 to settle at $88.95 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Oil at one point fell to $86.05 — the lowest price since Dec. 6, 2007.

In London, November Brent crude sank to a one-year low of $81 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange, before ending the day down 30 cents at $84.36 a barrel.

....

U.S. crude inventories jumped by 8.1 million barrels last week while gasoline stocks surged 7.2 million barrels, the Energy Information Administration said in its weekly inventory report. Both increases far exceeded expectations. Analysts surveyed by energy research firm Platts had expected a 1 million barrel drop in crude supplies and a 2 million barrel build in gasoline stocks.

....

In other Nymex trading, heating oil futures fell 1.12 cents to settle at $2.4945 a gallon, while natural gas futures fell 2.6 cents to settle at $6.742, after earlier falling to a 13-month low.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

[AnneD]

99. Morning Marketeers......

:donut: I remember on one of these threads, when we were making our New Years predictions-I said that oil prices would really drop. I was going by the history that we had in Houston during the 80's S&L, real estate debacle. For most of the year I have felt that might have been a stupid call but as of late....I have been feeling good about that call the last few months. I have been calling for a cash position and really limited our exposure personally. We still have stocks in what we have to, but I cashed out when the market was 12-13,000. Our cash position is beginning to pay off.


I am actually bargain shopping for my daughters account (she doesn't know she has one-I have hidden it from her since she was 13-I took some of her baby sitting money-added to it and if it can remain untouched-she might be a millionaire in her middle adulthood and surly will be one upon my death. I am actually just now starting to look for some long term bargains for hubby and my long term accounts too.These are very long term account (15-20 years) so I can take some risk. Why would I do this? I did it because I learned about how money works and if my mother could have done it for all 4 of us-she would have-she has always encouraged us to look beyond the weekend.

My next goal is to get Mom and Hubby long term care insurance. It will be pricey due to her age, but I feel it will ease my conscious if I know she is cared for. And Hubby-well Indian men are very hardy up until late middle age, after which they succumb to lethal predisposition of diabetes, and cardiac disease. It's just another way to get rid of risk in your assets.

Hubby thinks I am Warren Buffet's illegitimate daughter (mom has never been to Omaha as far as I know). Bless him-he just trusts me on things like this. If I tell him I'm taking out 1K from the bank to buy bullion or add to the home ATM-he doesn't even bat an eye. In fact he recently mentioned that we should get some bullion since the price was so low...I said Oh, I already did that with the extra money from our emergency account last month. He handed his paycheck to me and said "I should have known. Invest in a manicure and pedicure for yourself then" He swears those are cheaper than what he use to pay his brokers and he saves money and makes more off his accounts with me than he ever did with a broker.

So why am I telling you this. Well I saw something yesterday that traumatized me a bit. I had gotten off the freeway to get some gas. As I stood there pumping, I watched the freeway overpass. I heard a long screeching of brakes, followed by the sound of broken glass and crumpling metal. To my horror-I saw the car bounce up, flip over, and head toward the concrete edge of the freeway. The back part of car window hit the concrete edge of the freeway, stopping the car from falling onto the cars below that were stopped for the traffic light.

For a minute, everything was quite and everyone just stood still-transfixed. Then, as some folks went to the overturned car-I took out my cell phone and called it in. But what I could clearly hear, when the door was opened up, was a child screaming, then a woman screaming. I told 911 to send an ambulance and a police car and gave the location. It seemed like a long time but actually it wasn't before I heard the sound of a patrol car and and the second siren of the ambulance. The men that had tried to help stayed around to help the first responders.

What traumatized me was that when I was young newly single mom I went to the medical center on that route all the time. All it takes is a minute of distraction and your life is altered. Make plans for the best and worst possible outcomes, and the rest will take care of itself. I was poor , but I always carried insurance first. I may not have had enough to pay for her college now, but I can now help her later in life and I will advise her to stay at home and pay down her debts acquired from college ASAP to give her more freedom in the job choices she makes. I believe in giving with a warm hand where ever possible, and these are the gifts I can give now, to protect hers and my future children-because you never know what can happen on the way home.

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears.

[Demeter]

194. If Only All Children Were As Tractable As Yours

and all husbands as wise! You are blessed, AnneDarling, and I am very happy for you.

[AnneD]

211. It takes a long time to turn a lump of poo.....

into a lump of coal and a hell of a lot of pressure to turn that lump of coal into a diamond. I have a lot of rough edges, but my gems of wisdom come from hard experience.

[ozymandius]

4. Asian markets mixed after global rate cuts

SHANGHAI, China - Asian markets were mixed Thursday as investor enthusiasm over rate cuts around the world gave way to persisent fears over the severe strains in credit markets and the prospect of a global recession.

South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan lowered their interest rates, joining a series of cuts Wednesday in the U.S., Europe and China aimed at stabilizing global markets that have plunged sharply this week.

But lower interest rates alone are unlikely to cure the crisis in confidence, analysts said.

....

Tokyo's benchmark Nikkei 225 index rose more than 1 percent but fell back to close down 0.5 percent to 9,157.49, a five-year low. That followed a 9.4 percent plunge Wednesday, its biggest one-day drop since the 1987 market crash.

Hong Kong's Hang Seng index was up 2.1 percent in late afternoon trading at 15,779, and South Korea's key index rose 0.6 percent after earlier rising as much as 2.9 percent.

Mainland China's main index fell 0.8 percent after its central bank lowered rates Wednesday evening.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets

[ozymandius]

6. White House considers ownership stakes in banks

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is considering taking ownership stakes in certain U.S. banks as an option for dealing with a severe global credit crisis.

An administration official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because no decision has been made, said the $700 billion rescue package passed by Congress last week allows the Treasury Department to inject fresh capital into financial institutions and get ownership shares in return.

This official said all the new powers granted in the legislation were being considered as the administration seeks to deal with a serious credit crisis that has caused the biggest upheavals on Wall Street in seven decades and continues to roil global markets.

....

A decision to inject capital directly into financial institutions in return for ownership stakes would be similar to a plan announced Wednesday by Britain.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_paulson

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. But if the money is going to be virtually ceremenonially incinerated by

the purchase of worthless toxic shares, would that not be just more "smoke and mirrors"? The bank would remain a major liability, while the "wheels" had obtained some "cover", some spurious rationale, for bilking more astronomical unearned compensation from the public purse?

[ozymandius]

14. Any bank that takes advantage of TARP will lose some operational independence.

This is one structural flaw of the Paulson plan. It's like trading bad debt for good debt.

But to be more clear: as mentioned in the article, these two options represent a variety of tools at the Treasury department's disposal. The purchase of toxic debt is not intertwined with everything else.

The plan outlined above has been commented on (among good eggs like Krugman) as the better option. Until now, the option has seemed politically impossible.

[Joe Chi Minh]

18. Thank you for that info, Ozymandius. It does sound like a step in the right

direction, doesn't it? The blind leaders of "robber baron" capitalism, who enriched themselves so mightily by leading the blind into a ditch-like bubble of enormous dimensions, have not been malleable to any sort of reason up to now.

Their watchword was ever, "Workers, don't ask for a living wage, or you'll ruin the economy!" I expect, in the end, just asking for a living wage was toxic enough to have caused this Crash. Those workers are mean, anti-social, unpatriotic people, thinking only about themselves. And now look what a pretty pass they've brought us to. I guess, enslaving the masses is the only real answer. They've made a small start, of course, with their prison gulag. I expect a Noble prize awaits them, as it did Milton Friedman.

[Roland99]

28. And there is still one viable solutuon, imho, that they aren't discussing....

Unwinding the MBSs and separating the good from the bad and tossing the bad.

But, if they did that, then Wall St wouldn't get its Get Out Of Hock And Get Paid Handsomely card.

[Joe Chi Minh]

237. I thought of a step-by-step unwinding of all those 1000 million derivatives(!)

, but it occurred to me that they could all end up broke, many times over - together with the rest of the world. I expect that's what you mean regarding the MBA. At this stage, it's probably better to muddle along than find out the whole truth!

[Demeter]

20. Better Late Than Never, Sigh

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[DemReadingDU]

25. Who does this benefit?

I'm confused how the government owning banks would benefit me, who might have a checking account at a government owned bank, vs a checking account at a local bank.

[Imperialism Inc.]

Maybe benefit is to strong a word. Hurt you less might be a better way

to put it.

The banks have lending rules, like the one that says they can only lend a certain multiple of what they have in assets. Well the mortgage backed assets are taking huge loses , lowering the amount they can lend. The only way the Paulson plan will fix that problem is if the treasury pays more for the mortgage backed assets than the bank has them on the books for. That gives them more assets so they can lend more. What is better is just directly giving the bank money with the treasury acting as an investor in the company (kind of like buying stocks). Well, when you invest in a company you should get an ownership share so that if your investment allows them to prosper you get dividends and a stock of increasing value. In my opinion this needs to be accompanied by the banks opening their books to the treasury so we can know for sure the bank isn't just going to fail anyway.

[Imperialism Inc.]

39. Here is a good article on how they did this in Sweden

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html

But Sweden took a different course than the one now being proposed by the United States Treasury. And Swedish officials say there are lessons from their own nightmare that Washington may be missing.
Sweden did not just bail out its financial institutions by having the government take over the bad debts. It extracted pounds of flesh from bank shareholders before writing checks. Banks had to write down losses and issue warrants to the government.

[DemReadingDU]

97. Thanks!

At first when I heard this, I figured it was just another scheme for Paulson to wring money out of us to enrich his cronies. But if done right, there could be something for us bank customers too.
If done right.

[Demeter]

195. Let's Put It This Way--The Banks Aren't Happy About It

That in itself is a good indicator that it's the right thing to do.

[radfringe]

36. heh... waiting for panic in freeperville

SHOSHILIZED BANKING!!!! SHOSHILIZED BANKING!!!! SERIES!!!

[TalkingDog]

41. Wait.... didn't he want us to have "ownership" in the housing market too??

Didn't he encourage banks to make loans more easily accessible to folks who had less that stellar credit and low saving???


Oh. My. God.


RUN!!!!!

[Roland99]

225. So *thats's* the Ownership Society Bush was talking about!!

[ozymandius]

7. Fed grants AIG $37.8 billion loan

CHARLOTTE, N.C. - The Federal Reserve on Wednesday agreed to provide insurance giant American International Group Inc. with a loan of up to $37.8 billion, on top of one made to the troubled company last month.

Under the new program, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York will borrow up to $37.8 billion in investment-grade, fixed income securities from AIG in return for cash collateral. These securities were previously lent by AIG's insurance company subsidiaries to third parties.

The arrangement will help AIG secure funds on an as-needed basis, the New York-based insurer said in a statement.

....

Last week, AIG said it would sell off a number of business units to pay off its massive government loan. The company didn't specifically disclose all the assets it would sell or the expected prices from the sales. However, the New York-based insurer said it plans to retain its U.S. property and casualty and foreign general insurance businesses, and also plans to retain an ownership interest in its foreign life insurance operations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_bi_ge/fed_aig

[ozymandius]

8. Belgium, France, Luxembourg to cover Dexia loans

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The governments of France, Belgium and Luxembourg announced Thursday they will give struggling lender Dexia SA a yearlong guarantee on its new loans and deposits, sending the company's shares soaring.

Dexia's shares fell three days in a row — by more than 15 percent on Wednesday alone — as it could not borrow money on frozen credit markets despite getting a 6.4 billion euros ($8.8 billion) cash injection from the three governments last week.

Brussels traders welcomed the news with shares surging 18 percent in early Thursday trading.

Belgian Prime Minister Yves Leterme said the guarantee will cover all new agreements with international lenders, new interbank deposits and new institutional loans of up to three years. He said this includes Dexia's U.S. bond insurance unit FSA, which has run up huge losses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_belgium_dexia_aid

[ozymandius]

9. Wachovia Talks Snag Over Division of Its Assets

Talks between Citigroup Inc., Wells Fargo & Co. and the U.S. government over a way to divide Wachovia Corp. between its two suitors were hung up on several key issues Wednesday, according to people familiar with the situation.

The discussions, which began Sunday, have been snagged over the intricacies of carving up the Charlotte, N.C., bank, ranging from deposits to loans to securities. After burrowing deeper into Wachovia's books, Citigroup and Wells Fargo have been surprised by the concentration of assets they regard as low-quality, these people said.

As a result, both banks are worried that buying even part of Wachovia could saddle them with steeper losses than previously expected.

The two would-be buyers also have been sparring over the computer system used in Wachovia's 3,348 retail branches, one person familiar with the discussions said Wednesday. Citigroup, known for its hodgepodge of technology that hasn't been fully integrated, wants full control of Wachovia's system when the deal closes. Wells Fargo has countered that the two banks should share it temporarily.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122352039504018167.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[PassingFair]

30. Jackals fighting over a carcass.

There must be some good meat left in there.

[TalkingDog]

42. I figured this would be the main issue:

Who gets stuck with the bulk of the bad debt.

And as for being surprised by all the sludge....

I think if those schmucks would yank off the rose colored glasses and take a look around, they might see that everybody is wading around in toxic debt.

Wait, denial is better. *go to my happy place...my happy place....*

[AnneD]

100. There is going to be a lot of that......

there are bargains to be had but one must look very closely. I can't emphasis that enough. My one regret when the market crashed in the 80's was that I didn't have enough cash on hand to purchase the stocks that I had been eying for so long. I was too leveraged and lost my job after that. I am in a much better place this time around and I think if one has some spare change under the sofa cushion, start thinking about making some long term purchases. But that is just me. Always watch your money.

[ozymandius]

10. Icelandic Regulator Takes Control of Kaupthing Bank

Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Iceland's government seized control of Kaupthing Bank hf, the nation's biggest bank, completing the takeover of a banking industry that has collapsed under the weight of its foreign debt.

Kaupthing's domestic deposits are fully guaranteed and the aim of the takeover is to provide a ``functioning domestic banking system,'' the country's Financial Supervisory Authority said in a statement on its Web site today.

The banks are saddled with about $61 billion of debt, Bloomberg data show, and the government is seeking a loan from Russia and may ask for aid from the International Monetary Fund. Regulators this week took over the second- and third-largest lenders, Glitnir Bank hf and Landsbanki Islands hf, while the central bank ditched an attempt to fix the krona as investors fled.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ah7rLJahTxyA&refer=home

[ozymandius]

11. Global Stocks, U.S. Futures Advance; IBM, Dexia, ICBC Rally

Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Stocks rebounded in Europe and Asia and U.S. index futures rose after International Business Machines Corp. reaffirmed its profit forecast and investors speculated the worst five-day rout since 1987 was overdone.

....

U.S. Futures

Standard & Poor's 500 Index futures gained 2.3 percent today. Europe's Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index advanced 2 percent, while the MSCI Asia Pacific Index rose 0.9 percent.

The yen fell against the dollar for the first time this month today, and Treasuries declined.

The MSCI World was valued at 12.01 times the reported earnings of companies in the index yesterday, the cheapest since at least 1995. Europe's Stoxx 600 was valued at 9.44 times profit, the cheapest since Bloomberg began compiling the data in January 2002. The S&P 500 traded at 18.82 times earnings.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=aE7yya90Unq4

[ozymandius]

13. Libor Holds Central Banks Hostage as London Makes World Freeze

Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Danilo Coronacion oversees 15 percent of global coconut oil production at CIIF Oil Mills Group in the Philippines. These days, he spends a lot of time worrying about events half a world away in London. The name of his pain? Libor.

CIIF has more than $60 million of debt, or 70 percent of its working capital, linked to London interbank offered rates that have soared since Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. collapsed on Sept. 15. The cost of borrowing in dollars overnight in London jumped 1.44 percentage points yesterday to 5.38 percent as lenders hoard cash.

Rising Libor, set each day in the center of international finance, means higher payments on financial contracts valued at $360 trillion -- or $53,500 for each person worldwide --including mortgages in Britain, student loans in the U.S. and the debt of companies like CIIF in Makati City, the Philippines.

....

Libor, a gauge of bank funding costs, continued to rise even after Spain and the U.K. acted to strengthen their banking systems and the U.S. Congress approved a $700 billion financial bailout. Even the U.S. Federal Reserve's decision Monday to double emergency cash auctions and the European Central Bank's 250 billion-euro ($341 billion) auction on Tuesday, the biggest since December, failed to unlock short-term lending.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=au_WEzP8yYzY&refer=exclusive

[Ghost Dog]

94. That's a very informative article.

... ``You get to a situation where fear and panic take hold,'' said Peter Dixon, a London-based economist at Commerzbank AG, Germany's second-biggest bank. ``This is the eye of the storm.''

Still, the jargony acronym Libor mystifies most people. While U.S. presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama have sparred over the economy and the mortgage crisis in America, neither has braved a public discussion of Libor.

Banks aren't lending because they're worried any borrower may become the next victim and they'll be left with losses as the credit freeze deepens.

`Speed of Light'

...

``At any given point in time, there are buy lists, sell lists, inclusion lists and exclusion lists,'' any one list will not tell you much, he said. ``In the current environment, those snapshots age at the speed of light.''

No Return

Former Bank of England policy maker Willem Buiter said one way to stimulate lending may be for governments to guarantee interbank lending or act as the universal counterparty between banks borrowing for longer than overnight.

``It's quite possible, indeed likely, that unsecured lending will not return on any significant scale -- ever,'' he wrote on his blog on Oct. 6.

...

Libor is set through a daily survey by the London-based British Bankers' Association. As many as 16 banks, including UBS AG, Citigroup Inc. and Bank of America Corp., report the rates they think they can borrow at in 10 currencies and maturities ranging from overnight to one year.

Petrodollars

The concept of a centralized dollar rate set outside the U.S. emerged in the 1970s when the Soviet Union and Arab oil producers invested export revenue in London to prevent it from being confiscated by U.S. authorities, said Chris Golden, who worked for Credit Suisse White Field at the time and went on to head bond research for Lehman Brothers and Nomura International Plc.

The measure started as a series of rates quoted by four banks as a reference for floating-rate notes and syndicated loans, Golden said.

The BBA began producing the unified rates known as Libor in 1986, an association spokesman said. That made Libor the natural benchmark when then-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher abolished many restrictions on trading in the U.K., leading to an explosion in the range of products on offer, said David Clark, former head of funding at European Investment Bank, the European Union's Luxembourg-based development bank.

`I Don't Know'

While the estimates that go into Libor used to be based on actual transactions between banks, they have become little more than guesswork since credit markets froze, according to three people with knowledge of how interbank rates are set. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss rate setting.

``Whatever answer you give is by definition wrong,'' said Meyrick Chapman, a strategist at UBS in London. ``There is no interbank lending, so the only proper answer to where could you fund yourself is `I don't know' or `I can't.'''

[ozymandius]

15. BlackRock, Pimco Submit Bids to Manage Treasury Bailout Assets

Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- BlackRock Inc. and Pacific Investment Management Co. submitted proposals to manage troubled mortgage- backed securities in the biggest portion of the Treasury's $700 billion financial-rescue program, people familiar with the matter said.

State Street Corp. and Bank of New York Mellon Corp. bid to handle record-keeping and custody services for the Treasury, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the process is private. The deadline for proposals was yesterday at 5 p.m. New York time.

....

BlackRock, Pimco and Legg Mason Inc., the three biggest U.S. fixed-income managers, informally advised the Treasury prior to passage of the rescue package and planned to be bidders for the mortgage-backed securities portion, people familiar with the matter said last week. The three firms collectively manage about $1.9 trillion in fixed-income assets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=exclusive&sid=adHDI3vPN93c

---

I'm absolutely certain they are willing to do this job out of the goodness of their hearts. :sarcasm:

[AnneD]

108. The folks that took all the forclosures during the 80's here.....

Made a killing. There is money in disasters if you have cash and time.

[ozymandius]

16. Some fun: Brad DeLong kicks McCain's butt with McCain's own foot.

Can't Anybody Play This Game? The McCain Campaign Defies Belief

You know, we have like seen this before. On health care:

* McCain started with a tax credit that was equal in aggregate to the additional tax he levied on employer-sponsored health benefits in the first year--in later years the credit became much smaller than the tax.

* Then it was like ooops, that's not popular. We know--we never intended to subject employer-sponsored benefits to the FICA tax, only to the income tax.

* Then it was like ooops, now we're scared that the plan is fiscally irresponsible and will raise the deficit. We know--we will cut Medicare!

* Then it was like ooops, we have to carry Floria. We know--have Sarah Palin say that McCain will not cut but will protect your entitlements.

Can't anybody play this game? If we lose the election to these clowns, I am going to be really embarrassed. It seems as though nothing is competently staffed out--as if nobody in the McCain campaign cares about actually having policy proposals, but only about having something incoherent that an ignorant and lazy reporter can be deceived into thinking is a policy proposal.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/10/cant-anybody-pl.html

There are more posts about the McCain non-starter cash immolation plan.

[ozymandius]

17. Time to go.

Have a very nice day. I'll check back after the closing bell.

Ozy :hi:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

19. The Overnight Kasino Funfest Never Ends!

I wonder if they have scantily-clad waitrons who serve complimentary Cohibas and Oban?

I am sure they would settle for nothing less. After all: they are spending tax dollars and leveraged funds. That stuff spends eeeeeeeee-Z!


CLX08.NYM Crude Oil Nov 08 89.10 5:37am ET Up 0.15 (0.17%)
HOX08.NYM Heating Oil Nov 08 2.4827 5:37am ET Down 0.0118 (0.47%)
NGX08.NYM Natural Gas Nov 08 6.867 5:34am ET Up 0.125 (1.85%)
PNX08.NYM Propane Gas Nov 08 1.19 5:45am ET 0.00 (0.00%)
RBX08.NYM RBOB Gasoline Nov 08 2.0359 5:31am ET Up 0.0061 (0.30%)

[Festivito]

21. Debt: 10/07/2008 10,224,252,192,942.42 (UP 36,497,845,533.60) (Bail AIG?)

(Fifth day in FY2009. Up again. Also, UP 590,161,728,126.85 in last 21 days during similar rise in Federal Reserve holdings.)

(AIG calls US for 37.8B$, debt rises 36.5B$ on Tue 10/7)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3534389&mesg_id=3534389

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
5,943,992,236,199.90 + 4,280,259,956,742.52
UP 30,557,963,748.45 + UP 5,939,881,785.10
(FICA changes mostly around each end of month. Makes sense, that's when checks go out.)

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

HISTORICAL:
President's term ends/begins: Jan 20
01/20/1993 4,188,092,107,183.60 BC Inaugural
01/22/2001 5,728,195,796,181.57 BC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
10/07/2008 10,224,252,192,942.42 ** (UP 4,496,056,396,760.83 so far since Bush took office)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years.)
Borrowed in FY1993: (OLDER DATA IS MISSING)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 199,527,296,030.00 so far, five days.

For a prettier and more explanitory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(For fun here's the 365.25 year amount per year, day, hour, min, sec.)
Fiscal Year, Borrowed that year, PER 365 DAY, __ PER HOUR, _ PER MIN, PER SECOND
FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94 __770,050,723.82 32,085,446.83 534,757.45 ___8,912.62
FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07 __769,973,964.94 32,082,248.54 534,704.14 ___8,911.74
FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34 __686,729,742.44 28,613,739.27 476,895.65 ___7,948.26
FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61 __515,633,325.84 21,484,721.91 358,078.70 ___5,967.98
FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28 __309,505,811.09 12,896,075.46 214,934.59 ___3,582.24
FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81 __356,133,861.02 14,838,910.88 247,315.18 ___4,121.92
FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 ___49,027,538.00 _2,042,814.08 _34,046.90 _____567.45
FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 __364,914,996.07 15,204,791.50 253,413.19 ___4,223.55
FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 1,152,012,466.52 48,000,519.44 800,008.66 __13,333.48
FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46 1,519,493,763.58 63,312,240.15 1,055,204.00 17,586.73
FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70 1,631,270,728.51 67,969,613.69 1,132,826.89 18,880.45
FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18 1,515,830,158.50 63,159,589.94 1,052,659.83 17,544.33
FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73 1,572,249,794.64 65,510,408.11 1,091,840.14 18,197.34
FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25 1,370,785,689.38 57,116,070.39 __951,934.51 15,865.58
FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01 2,784,590,074.33 __116,024,586.43 _1,933,743.11 _32,229.05
FY2009: 199,527,296,030.00 _28,503,899,432.86 1,187,662,476.37 19,794,374.61 329,906.24 For seven calendar days till last reported day.

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3533081&mesg_id=3533188

[DemReadingDU]

27. 329,906.24 For seven calendar days?

Is this in billions?

[Festivito]

35. No, it's a silly statistic. $329,000 per second for last seven days.

Including the weekend. It was a just for fun table of calculations. Per hour, per minute, per second.

[DemReadingDU]

98. Per second!

What in the world costs that much! Insane

[Hugin]

64. "US debt clock runs out of digits" (BBC)

"The US government's debts have ballooned so badly the National Debt Clock in New York has run out of digits to record the spiraling figure.

The digital counter marks the national debt level, but when that passed the $10 trillion point last month, the sign could not display the full amount.

The board was erected to highlight the $2.7 trillion level of debt in 1989.

The clock's owners say two more zeros will be added, allowing the clock to record a quadrillion dollars of debt.

Douglas Durst, son of the late Seymour Durst - the clock's inventor - hopes to replace the Manhattan clock with its lengthier replacement early next year.

For the time being, the Times Square counter's electronic dollar sign has been replaced with the extra digit required.

For its part, the digital dollar symbol has been supplanted by a cheaper version - perhaps a sign of the times for the American economy.

Some economists believe the $700bn bail-out plan for ailing US financial institutions could send the national debt level to $11 trillion."

Photo @:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7660409.stm
_________________________________________________________________________________

Yet another piece of failing infrastructure...

:/

[TalkingDog]

66. Bush runs out of fingers and toes to cipher on...

forced to use remaining brain cells.

[Festivito]

233. Debt: 10/08/2008 10,245,247,740,307.58 (UP 20,995,547,365.10) (SS DN9)

(Sixth day in FY2009. Up again. All that money in the Federal Reserve keeps it out of circulation and would lower stock values and make credit difficult, would it not?)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
5,974,095,384,099.93 + 4,271,152,356,207.65
UP 30,103,147,900.03 + DOWN 9,107,600,534.87
(FICA changes mostly around each end of month. Makes sense, that's when checks go out.)

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

HISTORICAL:
President's term ends/begins: Jan 20
01/20/1993 4,188,092,107,183.60 BC Inaugural
01/22/2001 5,728,195,796,181.57 BC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
10/08/2008 10,245,247,740,307.58 ** (UP 4,517,051,944,125.93 so far since Bush took office)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years.)
Borrowed in FY1993: (OLDER DATA IS MISSING)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 220,522,843,395.10 so far, five days.

For a prettier and more explanitory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.)

[Demeter]

22. Thought for the Day

[Wednesdays]

23. TED Spread at 4.11 now

Is that an all-time high? :shrug:

[DemReadingDU]

29. 4.13 now

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP:IND



highest that I have seen

:wow:

[Demeter]

74. How Much Of That Fear Would Disappear If Bush and Cheney Co. Went Out of Business?

Trying to work around them is nerve-wracking.

[Pale Blue Dot]

131. 3:30. 4.23 nt

[Roland99]

31. Yikes...so why are markets up 2-3%?

If confidence is re-entering, why the fear in the TED?

[UpInArms]

26. dollar watch

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Central Banks Could Fail to Restore Investor’s Confidence, We Expect Further Losses on USD/JPY

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/bio1/Fed_Announces_the_Creation_of1223390458710.html

The Federal Reserve, in coordination with other central banks, has been taking a number of actions to stabilize financial markets. However, the U.S. economy will continue to face substantial challenges including further job losses, high energy prices and a rapid deleveraging in the financial sector. The Japanese yen could be the main beneficiary of the credit crisis and we expect more USD/JPY weakness going forward.

More Losses on Mortgage Backed Securities Could Mean More Gains on the Japanese yen.

There is a growing concern among international investors that any central bank measure will fail to restore investor’s confidence in the global financial system and given the current market environment of uncertainty and de-leveraging in financial markets, the U.S. dollar is likely to remain vulnerable against lower yielding currencies like the Japanese yen. The Federal Reserve has been taking a number of actions to increase liquidity and stabilize markets and the new bailout plan if approved, is likely to help the demand for housing in the form of lower mortgage rates. However, much more is needed since the U.S. economy will continue to slide until we see a much larger correction in the supply side of the housing sector in the form of lower prices. I will repeat something I have been saying over the last few days. Currently, the average American can’t afford to pay for a mortgage and there is something wrong with that. As a result, we are still far from reaching a bottom in the U.S. housing market and we may see more losses on Mortgage Backed Securities and gains on the Japanese yen.

<snip>

The United States federal government deficit could reach $1 trillion

Investors expect that the recent efforts by the U.S. Federal Reserve to clean the market from some toxic assets could lead to a more general recover in the appetite for risky assets like high yielding currencies. However, some investors are concerned with the fiscal impact of the bailout plan which could cost almost 5 percent of GDP. Currently, the United States federal government runs a deficit of $438bn, or 3 per cent of gross domestic product and the bailout costs could push the fiscal deficit next year to $1 trillion or 7% of GDP.



...more...

British Pound Firms Despite Declining Exports, Euro Gains On Interest Rate Outlook

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/topheadline/British_Pound_Fims_Despite_Declining_1223546744822.html

The Pound found support after it fell below 1.7200 for the first time in three years. After dropping over 500 bps on the week, the Sterling is starting to demonstrate the first signs of support despite the trade balance report showing that exports are continuing to decline. The trade balance deficit narrowed from a revised -£8238 to £8198 in August. However, the July figure was significantly revised lower from the initial reading of £7667. Meanwhile the housing markets showed further signs of weakening as home prices fell another 1.3% in September according to HBOS, the country’s largest mortgage lender.

Declining exports will leave the U.K. economy dependent on domestic growth, which has been non-existent as Britons continue to battle the worst housing slump since possible the Great Depression. Growth in the 2Q stagnated and has increased expectations that further easing from the BoE will be needed. Despite the 50 bops cut yesterday as part of the coordinated effort, Credit Suisse Overnight Index Swaps are still pricing in another 146 bps worth of rate cuts over the next twelve months which could continue to weigh on the pound.

The Euro bounced from support at 1.3600 rallying nearly 200 bps before finding resistance. The EURUS would reach as high as 1.3786 on the back of hawkish rhetoric from the ECB following the coordinated rate cut, demonstrating that the central bank is remaining stubborn regarding their price stability mandate. The statement from President Trichet following the 50 bps reduction showed that the central bank remains concerned with second round effects of inflation. The hawkish tone was reinforced by comments from ECB council member Likanen, following the MPC’s monthly report. Therefore, we may see further firming as the interest differential between the Euro-zone and the U.S. is expected to widen, before we see further weakness as the outlook for the economy dims as their policy responses are slow to come. Despite the comments Credit Suisse Overnight index swaps are still pricing in another 126 bps worth of rate cuts as markets believe that the region is entering a recession, which will ultimately force the central bank to ease further.

The lack of a historic announcement today could see a continuation of the dollar’s pullback as the economic calendar will show another week of jobless claims above 400,000. Despite all the efforts by the Fed and U.S. government, the labor market continues to weaken and with the consolidation in the financial sector and the tight credit markets making it difficult for companies to generate the necessary cash flow to fund their operations, we may see further weakness. The outlook for domestic growth continues to decline and that will increase fears that a recession is unavoidable. Wholesale inventories declining will also show that optimism is fading from retailers as they continue to reduce stock in anticipation of a weak holiday shopping season. The dollar could receive a boost from the speculation that the U.S. government is considering taking ownership in U.S. banks as part of the $700 billion plan, which would be similar to the actions taken in the U.K . The investment could help restore confidence in the banking system, which could stop Americans from pulling their deposits and give banks confidence to start lending again.

...more...

[DemReadingDU]

32. Columbus, Oh - National Century Trial, Wednesday's updates

10/8/08 FBI agent: National Century faked receivables
By Jodi Andes

Funds invested with National Century Financial Enterprises were supposed to go toward buying the debts owed to health-care companies.

But in at least one case, the money paid the legal settlement that National Century owed to companies that National Century executives wholly owned, an FBI witness testified today during the fraud trial of Lance K. Poulsen, former National Century chief executive.

Special Agent Jeffrey Williams said a court had ordered National Century in 2001 to pay $7.75 million to three companies: Chartwell, Lifecare and Home Medical of America.

The suit was not detailed in court today, but Williams said National Century executives Poulsen, Donald H. Ayers and Rebecca S. Parrett owned "100 percent" of the three companies and their entities.

National Century executives used investor funds that had been guaranteed for the purchase of accounts receivables. Fake accounts receivable then were added to National Century's computer records, Williams said.

Williams said he analyzed company paper records from before the company filed for bankruptcy in 2002. The failure cost investors $1.9 billion.

The records also showed that Poulsen earned about $12 million during the company's last five years of business.

"It is one of the largest frauds the FBI has ever investigated in the history of the U.S.," Williams said.

John E. Haller, Poulsen's defense attorney, questioned the amount of paperwork and whether Williams put enough time into his analysis.

"Your goal was to make Mr. Poulsen look as bad as possible, wasn't it?" he asked Williams.

"No," the agent replied.

Haller noted that National Century's earnings analysis did not include personal money that Poulsen, and his wife, Barbara, put into the company. The couple paid in $5 million to National Century in 2002, he said.
http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/08/natcent08_web.html?sid=101



10/8/08 Poulsen’s attorney questions FBI's National Century probe
Wednesday, October 8, 2008 - 5:30 PM EDT
by Kevin Kemper

Attempting to show the government’s investigation of National Century Financial Enterprises Inc. was incomplete, an attorney for Lance Poulsen sparred with a government witness Wednesday over who the true owners of National Century were.

John Haller, Poulsen’s attorney, confronted an FBI agent who earlier told a jury that Poulsen was a primary owner of Dublin-based National Century.

Poulsen, National Century’s former president and CEO, is standing trial in U.S. District Court in Columbus on charges of conspiracy, securities fraud and wire fraud, among others.

The government has accused Poulsen of running a fraud at National Century that resulted in $2.84 billion in investor funds going missing after the company collapsed into bankruptcy in 2002.

Poulsen has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

Jeffrey Williams, an FBI agent specializing in white-collar crime, told a jury Tuesday and Wednesday about his analysis of National Century documents in which he found the company illegally advanced millions of dollars to companies owned by Poulsen and other executives at the firm during National Century’s last four years.

On Wednesday afternoon, Haller attempted to pick apart Williams’ analysis and methods.

“Your goal was to make Mr. Poulsen look as bad as possible, wasn’t it?” Haller asked.

“No,” Williams said.

“You wanted to look for improper transactions only, right?” Haller asked.

“No,” Williams said.

Haller took Williams and the jury through documents that showed seven different owners of National Century, five of which were holding companies.

Williams told Haller that he had not been aware of all the companies with ownership, but noted that some of those holding companies were owned by Poulsen and others.

Under questioning by U.S. Department of Justice Trial Attorney Leo Wise, Williams read from transcript statements made by Poulsen during his August sentencing hearing on witness tampering charges

“There is no question that NCFE was my company. No question your honor,” Poulsen is quoted as saying.

Marbley sentenced Poulsen to 10 years imprisonment on Aug. 8 after a separate jury found Poulsen guilty in March of attempting to bribe a government witness.

Haller and Williams also sparred over a transaction Williams disclosed to the jury earlier in the day. That transaction, Williams said, showed that National Century had diverted investor funds to pay for a lawsuit settlement.

National Century was a financier of last resort for health-care providers such as hospitals and urgent care centers. It purchased accounts receivable from the providers at a discount in exchange for quick cash the providers could use to pay bills. National Century then packaged the receivables as bonds which it sold to investors.

The government has alleged the investor funds were only allowed to be used to purchase accounts receivable. Defense attorneys, however, contend the government is simply misinterpreting National Century’s governing documents.
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2008/10/06/daily24.html



10/9/08 National Century faked receivables, agent says
Investors' money paid for legal settlement, investigator testifies
Thursday, October 9, 2008 3:25 AM
By Jodi Andes
content similar to 1st article
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/10/09/natcent09.ART_ART_10-09-08_C8_REBI5SE.html?sid=101



link backwards to Tuesday's articles, and older
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3533081&mesg_id=3533310

[Buttercup McToots]

33. Is someone betting against Obama?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_camp_making_news_in_the_morning.html

At Politico...

October 08, 2008
Categories: McCain

McCain camp making news in the morning

On what, they won't say.

"We'll have something to talk about," is all a campaign aide would allow.

Check back again in this space or over on our front-page in the morning.


In the comment section:

Between 8:45 PM and 9:15 PM tonight (Oct 8) on Intrade, someone just bet a LOT of money against Obama winning the presidency. And I mean a LOT. His stock, which has been over 70 for a couple of days now and at 76 most of the time today dipped down to 64 or so in those 20 minutes under heavy betting before recovering immediately after 9:15 to 73... Very strange.. is there something someone knows?? What is the news tomorrow, JMart?

Posted By: intrade | October 08, 2008 at 11:54 PM

Who spent $140,000 against Obama on Intrade between 8:45 and 9:15 PM today?

Posted By: intrade | October 09, 2008 at 12:20 AM

That's my point. Someone placed a HUGE bet against Obama at 8:50 PM tonight. Someone who thinks Obama will have some rough days ahead. The Iowa markets dont have the blip perhaps because this guy didn't place a bet there. It only indicates that only a few people have this information and they chose Intrade. The swing was not so high anyway -- the stock fell from 76 to 66 during his bet. But he bet a LOT.

Posted By: intrade | October 09, 2008 at 12:35 AM

that intrade bet was rather suspicious. wen i was on intrade @ 9 i thought it was a mistake but i guess not. the news has to be big for someone to have bet that much. i so want to know now as i think mccain needs something big to change the race.

Posted By: Palin/Jindal 2012 | October 09, 2008 at 12:53

The irregular intrade trading is true. See for yourself. Go to intrade, click on obama's contract, select time period = last day, and then look at the time and sales chart. There is a HUGE dump tonight at about 8:45 pm. Something is DEFINITELY up.

Posted By: Arrowhead | October 09, 2008 at 01:04 AM

[Roland99]

34. Smells like a rather inexpensive "ad buy'. IOW, desperation.

Think about it...instead of floating millions for TV ads, plop a couple hundred grand on Intrade (with no contribution restrictions) and alter the political landscape or at least get negative talk going.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

38. And an InTrade move, in any direction...

Matters why?

That there is some silly shit. :silly:

[snot]

40. hmm, did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4195810

a terra attack might help McCain.

[lonestarnot]

45. key word being "might" as most see him as the crazed cadaverick

diametrically opposed to the calm cool collected Obama.

[alterfurz]

37. today's cartoon reminds me of a recently-seen bumpersticker

"Democrats think the glass is half-full...
Republicans think they own the glass"

[Roland99]

43. 10:03am - Early enthusiasm waning.

Dow 9,293.07 +34.97
Nasdaq 1,756.53 +16.20
S&P 500 987.36 +2.42
10-year 3.75% +0.04
Oil $88.80 -$0.15
Gold $889.00 -$17.50

[Roland99]

44. 10:32am - Good times done split!

Dow 9,231.50 -26.60
Nasdaq 1,748.83 +8.50
S&P 500 979.81 -5.13
10-year 3.74% +0.03
Oil $88.85 -$0.10
Gold $889.50 -$17.00

[Roland99]

49. The split and took the beer with them. DJIA -100..

[AnneD]

110. Spew alerts please....

took the beer with them :toast: :spray:

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

46. Appears to be a downward trend -86.02

May not be a rally today after all. Though, it is still early.

[antigop]

47. So which country has the soundest banking system, eh?

http://financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081009/REG/810099991/1036

Canada has the world’s soundest banking system, closely followed by Sweden, Luxembourg and Australia, a survey by the World Economic Forum has found as financial crisis and bank failures shake world markets.

But Britain, which once ranked in the top five, has slipped to 44th place behind El Salvador and Peru, after a 50 billion pound ($86.5 billion) pledge this week by the government to bolster bank balance sheets.

The United States, where some of Wall Street’s biggest financial names have collapsed in recent weeks, rated only 40, just behind Germany at 39, and smaller states such as Barbados, Estonia and even Namibia, in southern Africa.

Everyone chant: WE'RE #40! WE'RE #40!

Aren't we rated about the same on our health care system?

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

48. I'm beginning to think the only thing American's even pay attention to any more

is the military and defense. We may only rank among nations a fraction of our size in education, health care, Homelessness, financial soundness, and etc., with little concern among a good percentage of Americans. But I can gauran-fucking-tee that if we were some how considered not to have a strong military, Americans would go ape-shit and start rioting. It's as though, that's all that matters.

[mmonk]

50. We could cut military spending in half and still

be way way ahead of anybody else on the planet.

[Dr.Phool]

52. We don't need a military!

We've got Mighty Moose guarding the Northern border.

[antigop]

55. Here she comes to save the day! n/t

[CatholicEdHead]

109. We need to get him from California up north

From National Lampoon's Vacation

Who's the moosiest moose we know?
Marty Moose!
Who's the star of our favorite show?
Marty Moose!
M is for Merry, we're merry you see;
O is for Oh gosh, Oh golly, Oh gee;
S is for Super Swell family glee;
E is for Everything you want to be.
M - A - R - T - Y;
M - O - O - S - E.
What's that spell?
Marty Moose!
Marty Moose!
Marty Moose!
(Hyuk), that's me!

[Dr.Phool]

51. Heading South.....-137 at 11:05

[Roland99]

53. -203!

Dow 9,054.60 -203.50
Nasdaq 1,724.29 -16.04
S&P 500 962.13 -22.81
10-year 3.76% +0.05
Oil $88.85 -$0.10
Gold $892.00 -$14.50

[Dr.Phool]

56. That's about 150 pts in about 10 minutes.

A friend of mine, who's running for congress just called and was asking me a few things. He got around to asking me what the market was doing, and i kept updating him during the conversation.

It dropped another 100pts in the two minutes since we hung up.

[Roland99]

58. Faeries jump in...cut loss to 70

[Loge23]

57. Where's the bottom?

I'm wondering where the bottom of the Dow will be and when we'll see it.
It would appear that we'll be in the 8,000's by week's end.
What will mean for us if we go into the 7's?
Clearly, this is a severe correction to a point that just keeps sinking lower even as the tide recedes.
Look out below - and I mean outside of any corporate headquarters also.

[Demeter]

75. Ask Again in Ten Years

It may have bottomed out and started rising by then.

[antigop]

54. With bailout bill passed, lobbyists look to get in the game

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-bailout-passed-lobbyists-look-to-get-in-the-game-2008-10-04.html

Lobbyists, who had little influence in the development of the $700 billion economic bailout, are angling to play a greater role as Treasury implements the plan and Congress debates how best to strengthen financial market oversight.

“This is going to be a big trend, in all honesty, for the next three to five years,” said Rich Gold, the head of Holland and Knight’s government relations and regulatory practice.
...
Lobbyists’ immediate focus is influencing how Treasury implements the massive bailout bill, a process that could be make or break for some financial institutions struggling under the weight of bad debts.


“Treasury can do pretty much whatever it wants, whenever it wants and however it wants,” said Steptoe’s Sinder.

Already, lobbyists are working to push their clients out front to ensure they are covered by the $700 billion program.

Article is from a few days ago. My apologies if this has already been posted.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

59. We got awfully close to the 9,000 mark, then

back upward. Hmmm.

[antigop]

60. Swiss would save big banks from collapse

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/b84b7a0cd44c1ee5bc8447b8f7bb2f70.htm

Switzerland's government would step in to prevent the collapse of either of its two major banks, UBS AG and Credit Suisse Group, the country's economics minister said Thursday.

Doris Leuthard told Swiss public radio DRS in an interview that over-hasty reactions and panic in the face of the financial turmoil currently sweeping the globe could do more harm than good.

But she acknowledged that Switzerland too has contingency plans in place.

"Something that's surely important to us all, that none of us want, is for one of our big banks to get into a serious crisis or even go bankrupt," Leuthard said. "The Federal Council (Switzerland's seven-member governing Cabinet) would definitely prevent that."

UBS and Credit Suisse are regarded as pillars of the Swiss banking system and a bedrock of the Alpine republic's economy. In a country of only 7.5 million, the two banks together employ more than 50,000 people.

[JNelson6563]

61. What's going on?

Markets way down after a bright, sunny open and I see lots of money has also left Treasuries? Gold's down too. Where's the money going?

Julie

[Pale Blue Dot]

63. Mattress futures?

I wish that was my joke, but I confess I stole it.

[AnneD]

119. Last Sat. on Wait wait don't tell me....

they were talking about how worthless Bush has been lately and how his popularity rating has plummeted and Pauls Poundstone suggested we replace Washington's portrait on the dollar bill be replaced with Bush's. From the audience reaction-there was a lot of agreement with the idea.

[Pale Blue Dot]

197. My son and I listen every week - we loved that line.

I was laughing through my tears.

[AnneD]

210. I try not to miss it....

I am ready to cut and paste.

[Roland99]

67. Volume isn't that heavy.

[bain_sidhe]

62. The Pool! The Pool!

Posting for Prag (and extending my deepest sympathies for his graphics card).

---

Guess the date for when the Dow will close down 20% of it's value from the Great Reset value of 10,578. That would be 8462.59. I doubt anyone could claim there isn't a recession at that value.

Similar rules to AnneD's pool apply... HARSH REGULATION WILL BE OBSERVED! The pool will lock at 500 points above the target value or 8963.59.

Next up...

radfringe... 10/09/08 (765 432 1 Countdown!)

bain_sidhe... 10/10/08
Ghost Dog... 10/10/08
Tansy_Gold... 10/13/08 (Note: Happy Birthday, Tansy!)
dweller... 10/15/08
loudsue... 10/16/08
Birthmark... 10/17/08
Karenina... 10/20/08
AnneD... 10/24/08 (Note: AnneD is a Sentimentalist)
Roland99... 10/27/08
UpInArms... 10/28/08
Dr.Phool... 10/30/08
MsLeopard... 10/31/08 (Note: BOO!)
Wednesdays... 11/05/08
krispos42... 11/6/08
Pigwidgeon... 11/17/08


Good luck and keep a sharp eye for those ice bergs!

---

Come on in, the water's fine (although it has a reddish tinge...). Please post your picks as a reply to this post, and I'll add them to the list in the order they're received. As of this post time, we're less than 200 points from closing the pool!

Note: I'll be afk (away from keyboard) later this afternoon, between 3:00 & 4:00. If we hit the close target during that time, could somebody post the closure?

[Hugin]

65. Thanks for picking up the pool...

Great work. :D

Red tinge? No problem... Don't want a yellow tinge, tho. ;)

[bain_sidhe]

72. Definitely not the yellow!

brown floaties are pretty bad too...

Be sure and let us know when you're done with your graphics card blues! Meanwhile, I'll continue to tend the pool and keep track of the comings and goings.

[Hugin]

73. But, you do it so well!

I've narrowed down the problem, but, unfortunately the graphics card is built into the mother-of-all-boards.

:worry:

:hi: See you later. :)

[bain_sidhe]

87. all appropriate appendages crossed!

Hope you can work it out!

:hug:

and :spray: "mother-of-all-boards" Good one!

[AnneD]

120. Or Reggie Bars...

Hell on the filters and you have to add so much chlorine. Oh wait...Maybe Karl can scoop that out for us-June has him this week.

[Demeter]

76. Oh, All Right! Count Me In On October 15th

600 points in 6 days. Piece of cake!

[bain_sidhe]

83. Done!

[TBUSA]

77. Out before the weekend rush. 10/29/2208

10/29/2008 Before the election weekend.

[bain_sidhe]

84. Got it!

[MadinMo]

78. Okay I'm in.

Put me down for Tuesday October 14.

Thanks!

[bain_sidhe]

85. All set!

[adamuu]

79. please put me down for Thurs 2008-10-23 n/t

[bain_sidhe]

86. In like flynn!

(for those who are wondering, I post these confirmations as I add them so that I can quickly see if I missed anyone...)

[Neshanic]

106. Please put me down for 10/24. I am going to stick with that date from the last contest.

[bain_sidhe]

111. You got it, sharing with AnneD

And with that, I'm off to my appointment. Y'all be careful now, the floor's kinda slippery...

[Neshanic]

112. Thanks.

[CatholicEdHead]

114. 10/23 for me please

[bain_sidhe]

151. Time stamp shows you made it in before the lock!

Whew!

[adamuu]

174. but i already called 10/23 n/t

[bain_sidhe]

182. Yep, first one to call it is considered the winner

and gets all the goodies... I.e., the thanks of a grateful DU-SMW, and mad props for your prognostication skills. Maybe even a mention in the OP or something. I'm not clear on first prize...

Second prize is... um... what's second prize, folks?

My suggestion is for a good "hard-times" recipe from AnneD. (I'm still looking for the post about how to keep beans from causing gas. I coulda sworn it was from AnneD...)

[AnneD]

214. CatholicEdHead....

Nice Indy man, nice Indy:thumbsup:

[bain_sidhe]

148. The Pool is CLOSED

Dunno when it crossed the target line, but it's well below it now.

[bain_sidhe]

178. Pool standings at the close

(both the close of the day and the close of the pool):

When last we saw our intrepid poolsters...

Sorry, radfringe... SOOOO close, though - looks like the finals are:
8,579.19, down –678.91. Just 116.6 points away.

radfringe... 10/09/08 (765 432 1 Countdown!)

Next up...

bain_sidhe... 10/10/08
Ghost Dog... 10/10/08

Tansy_Gold... 10/13/08 (Note: Happy Birthday, Tansy!)
MadinMo... 10/14/08
dweller... 10/15/08
Demeter... 10/15/08
loudsue... 10/16/08
Birthmark... 10/17/08
Karenina... 10/20/08
whrab... 10/23/08
CatholicEdHead... 10/23/08 (IBTL!!)
AnneD... 10/24/08 (Note: AnneD is a Sentimentalist)
Neshanic... 10/24/08
Roland99... 10/27/08
UpInArms... 10/28/08
TBUSA...10/29/08 (Note: In before the weekend rush!)
Dr.Phool... 10/30/08
MsLeopard... 10/31/08 (Note: BOO!)
Wednesdays... 11/05/08
krispos42... 11/6/08
Pigwidgeon... 11/17/08

[Cassius23]

68. 11:35AM- Could it go below 9,000?

Dow 9,141.10-117.00
Nasdaq1,743. +302.97
S&P 500972.21 -12.73
10-year3.77% +0.06
Oil$88.85 -$0.10
Gold $895.00 -$11.50

[Ghost Dog]

69. European shares extend losses; oils, banks negative

Thu Oct 9, 2008 11:21am EDT LONDON, Oct 9 (Reuters) - European shares extended their slide on Thursday to fall as much 2.9 percent to their lowest level since November 2003, as banks and oil shares turned negative and Wall Street extended losses.

At 1510 GMT, the pan-European FTSEurofirst 300 index was down 2.2 percent at 919.84, having traded as high as 966.7 points.

Among banks, Barclays (BARC.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) fell 9 percent and Santander (SAN.MC: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) lost 3 percent. Oil shares dropped as crude oil fell more than 2 percent, with Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) off 2.6 percent and BP (BP.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) down 1.6 percent.

/.. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAL912868920081009?rpc=44

[Ghost Dog]

80. Europe shares end sharply lower, tracking Wall St

Thu Oct 9, 2008 11:42am EDT LONDON, Oct 9 (Reuters) - European shares extended their slide on Thursday, ending sharply lower despite an early rally as bank and oil shares slipped and Wall Street faltered.

The pan-European FTSEurofirst 300 index unofficially ended down 2.3 percent at 918.85, having earlier hit its lowest level since November 2003. The index earlier traded as high as 966.7 points.

Among banks, Barclays (BARC.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) fell 13 percent and Santander (SAN.MC: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) lost 4.3 percent. Oil shares dropped as crude oil fell 1.7 percent, with Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) off 3.2 percent and BP (BP.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) down 1.8 percent.

/.. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAL917333020081009?rpc=44
________

[Roland99]

70. 11:39am - "I got better."

Dow 9,228.71 -29.39
Nasdaq 1,754.64 +14.31
S&P 500 979.85 -5.09
10-year 3.79% +0.08
Oil $88.85 -$0.10
Gold $896.00 -$10.50

[Roland99]

89. 12:44pm - A relapse. Down over 100 again

[Ghost Dog]

71. IMF activates emergency funding facility

WASHINGTON, Oct 9 (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund said on Thursday it had activated an emergency financing mechanism last used in the 1990s Asian crisis and was ready to assist countries in distress from a mounting financial crisis.

The emergency facility was created in 1995 as a way of speeding up the approval of loans to countries in need. It was last activated during the Asian financial crisis that erupted in 1997 and led to sharp declines in currencies, stock markets, and other asset prices of a number of Asian countries.

"Yesterday I activated emergency procedures so the IMF can respond quickly ... to be able to answer problems that may happen in some of the emerging countries," IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn told a news conference.

"We are ready to answer any demand by countries facing problems," he added.

Speaking ahead of IMF and World Bank meetings of finance leaders in Washington this weekend, Strauss-Kahn said the main task of global policy-makers was to restore confidence in global markets.

He called for further coordinated steps to calm markets, beyond the unprecedented simultaneous action of central banks on Wednesday to cut rates to contain the crisis.

/... http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=6940227&subject=economic&action=article

[mmonk]

81. We don't want them, do we?

[Ghost Dog]

95. Ufff. People are talking about the need for a whole new "Bretton Woods"-type deal

over here, so anything's possible, I guess.

REYKJAVIK, Oct 9 (Reuters) - Iceland's prime minister said on Thursday the country had not decided whether to seek help from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), while use of swap lines set up with Nordic central banks was a last resort.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINSAT00569620081009?rpc=44

[54anickel]

113. Been talk of that since freaking '99. I remember posting an article where some thought Bush would

be the white knight to bring it about. :rofl:


Holy crap, it's still here!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=5246




And the referenced article is still available.

http://internationalecon.com/tradeimbalance/US.html



Personal I still see zones....

I see partnering zones
and the fiat buck's bones
amongst those lovely zones

[formercia]

82. Is transoceanic shipping in danger of collapse?

At what point does it become unprofitable to continue operating?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2008/10/the_deleveraging_vortex.html


The deleveraging vortex

* Robert Peston
* 9 Oct 08, 08:27 AM

Shipping rates for transporting raw materials to the great manufacturing economies of the world, as measured by the Baltic Exchange Dry Index, have halved over the past month - and have fallen 75% since mid-May.

This index is normally seen as a leading indicator of global economic activity.

Shipping containers being loaded on to lorryIn recent years it's been buoyed by China's voracious appetite for the world's natural resources, especially iron ore.

There may be one or two exceptional factors depressing shipping rates, such as a decision by China (which may turn out to be temporary) to consume from its vast stockpile of iron ore rather than bring in more.

--snip--

[antigop]

88. How authorization to recapitalize banks via public capital injection was introduced in TARP

http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253956/how_authorization_to_recapitalize_banks_via_public_capital_injections_partial_nationalization_was_introduced_-_indirectly_through_the_back_door_-_into_the_tarp_legislation

For a number of weeks professional economists and experts of banking crises have been arguing that the proper way to resolve a banking crisis is not to buy toxic assets but rather to recapitalize banks directly via injections of public capital (in the form of preferred shares) into distressed but solvent financial institutions. We criticized the TARP legislation just passed by Congress for not allowing for such a recapitalization of banks via public capital (an approach that has been instead now taken by the UK with its $87 bn bank rescue package and even Belgium/Netherlands in the case of the rescue of Fortis).

So how come that "to inject capital into financial institutions" was the first item that Hank Paulson listed as his priority in his press conference yesterday, thus suggesting that now the US, like the UK, will undertake a partial nationalization of its distressed banks?

The reality is that the TARP legislation passed by Congress (formally the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act) does not in any explicit way allow for such recapitalization of banks via injection of public capital. The US Treasury has initially resisted including explicitly such authority in the Act for several reasons: the banking industry that helped drafting the legislation was against it; there was ideological resistance to the idea of the government taking equity – however preferred – in financial institutions; there was concern that being explicit about public recap of banks would lead to banks’ resistance to participate in the toxic asset purchase program. That is why the Treasury formally resisted putting any explicit wording of public recapitalization of banks into the legislation.

So how come Treasury now says that its first priority is to inject public capital in banks? And where is Paulson getting such authority since there is nothing formally explicit in the Act to allow such recapitalization?

This is a fascinating story that is worth telling in full detail. Here are below those details…

<edit> Looks like you need a subscription to read the rest.

[Ghost Dog]

96. US Treasury may capitalize banks by end Oct-source

Thu Oct 9, 2008 11:50am EDT WASHINGTON, Oct 9 (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury Department plans to start directly injecting capital in U.S. banks as soon as the end of October in a program that would involve passive investments, according to a financial policy source familiar with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's thinking.

Under authority granted to it by last week's $700 billion market rescue legislation, Treasury plans to inject capital in exchange for common and preferred shares and does not intend to seek board seats in the voluntary program, the source told Reuters on Thursday.

Paulson said at a news conference on Wednesday that the financial bailout bill gives him wide authority to inject capital into the banking system and would not rule out having Treasury take an ownership position in banks if necessary.

/.. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINWEN898520081009?rpc=44

:shrug:

[Roland99]

103. A free registration at the site gets you the rest of the story.

[antigop]

104. Right, but I had already copied the max # of paragraphs for copyright purposes

I didn't want to copy any more or the moderators wouldn't have been happy.

<edit> I should have mentioned the subscription was free. Sorry.

[masmdu]

90. Mortgage Rate @ 6% on 30 yr fixed...Should I Lock This In? OR, are better rates available soon?

Trying to decide to lock or not.

Does anybody have any idea whether rates will fall any time soon?

If you think they will change, on what do you base your view?

Thanks in advance

[Dr.Phool]

92. I think we're in seriously uncharted territory right now,

And ANYTHING can happen. And home prices are expected to keep falling for a while. How far? Nobody knows.

There just aren't any experts in this situation anymore.

[AnneD]

125. That's my sense of it too....

We might be failing like the Depression, but in a different way. While religious folks may say evolution is just a theory....well gravity is a theory too but I WOULDN'T BET AGAINST IT.

[MattSh]

93. Can't comment on rates,

but the price of housing still has a long way to fall. There may be some places where the market is near the bottom, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the price of housing in many places come down another 25%.

[54anickel]

91. Exactly why is the US dollar soaring today? Is the rest of the world so f'd up that THIS is the

currency safehaven? :wtf: Treasuries, commodities, PMs, markets - all down but the almighty buck is up?

[Politics_Guy25]

101. Goodbye 9,000!

We hardly knew ye:(:(

[Roland99]

102. 2:23pm - Pushing new session lows. Under 9,100

Dow 9,087.98 -170.12
Nasdaq 1,725.47 -14.86
S&P 500 963.83 -21.11
10-year 3.80% +0.09
Oil $87.30 -$1.65
Gold $886.50 -$20.00

[Wednesdays]

116. I'm expecting faeries to swoop in within the next 15-45 minutes

I can just imagine the mumbling on the market floor, "I do believe in fairies, I do believe in fairies..."

Edit: C'mon! Where's everybody's faith?


"What do you think?" she asked Peter.

"If you believe," he shouted to them, "clap your hands; don't let Tink die." :cry:

[54anickel]

105. Check out this young man's video and the related comments. Tears of anger.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-108389

[Dr.Phool]

124. It puts a human face on the devastation.

[54anickel]

175. Yep, I can relate so many friends and relatives to this kids family.

[Dr.Phool]

107. Look at the mess you people have caused!

I throw a load in the washer, and take a little nap, and look at this mess!

Just wait until Tansy gets here! You'll all be in trouble.

[dweller]

115. i know. it's almost like a pack of bad puppies

chewing up the couch in a effort to get some attention...maybe get a little discipline. . . :blush:

oops, did i just say that outloud?
dp

[AnneD]

134. HEY....

I was in the fridge, minding my own business (punch line to an old very funny joke that I'll tell one day if you really want to know.)

[Tansy_Gold]

215. LOL! I did laundry Tuesday and took a nap yesterday.

Right now I should be working on my paid work, but I'm too angry/hurt/depressed/scared.


I was listening to something or other on NPR this morning, some woman talking about the causes of the financial/economic crisis, talking about the housing crisis and upside-down mortgages and so on, and in the 10 or 15 minutes that I listened to her, I never once heard her say that until we generate jobs that people can get back to, there's not going to be a real, fundamental solution to the problems.

All the renegotiating of mortgages won't help people who have NO INCOME because there are NO JOBS.

People who have NO INCOME because they have NO JOBS cannot drive the economy. IT'S THE JOBS, STUPID.

So, okay, how do we generate jobs? Well, I can't speak from any real academic or experiential authority, but I think I do have a lick o' common sense.......

1. Stop tax breaks for those who put profits before people. That means ANY company that ships jobs offshore gets no tax breaks. They don't get property tax breaks. They don't get income tax breaks. They don't get nothin'. Set the corporate tax rate at, oh, 75% for those companies that offshore production or have overseas call centers. Put a premium on hiring H1B visas (or whatever it is).

Will corporations just pass along the increased cost to customers? Sure. Let them. Guess what? If Chinese-made goods now cost as much as American made, customers will buy American. That will spur manufacturing development, construction, give people jobs, and voilá!

1a. Establish a labor-parity formula. (I used to be a labor-cost analyst for a major manufacturing operation back in the 70s. I ***love*** this stuff!) If it would take $7 in U.S. labor to make that 29-cent Chinese widget, the importer (hmm, which major American retailer comes to mind???) must pay $6.71 to import it. (Material and overhead costs may still be lower in China, but since the primary concern at the moment is U.S. jobs. . . .)

2. Stop tax breaks for unearned income. All wages and salaries up to $150,000/year/person should be tax exempt. Self-employment (net) income up to $150,000/year/person should be tax exempt. ALL other income -- wages, salaries, tips, income from rental properties, hedge funds, investments, capital gains, etc, etc, etc, -- should be taxed identically. I don't care where the brackets break; if it's income, it's income, regardless of the source. This puts substantially more revenue into the Treasury and allows for the funding of public works projects.

3. Turn "the markets" back into investment vehicles, not casinos. You buy stocks, you buy bonds, you buy (into) an actual operation. No more SIVs, CDOs, CDSes. This isn't a numbers racket; it's a "stock" exchange. The element of risk is still there: Those who invest in Smoogle Smidgens in the belief Smidgens are going to be the next Tickle Me Elmo may find out that kids are terrified of the fanged furry toy and lose their investment. But at least they will know they're investing in a company, not a house of cards.

4. Restore regulation. This isn't the wild west any more. As Red Green (and a lot of other wise folks) have said, we're all in this together. We ARE our brothers' and sisters' and seniors' and cousins' and friends' and neighbors' keepers. We can't devastate the environment. We can't poison our foods. We can't sell unsafe widgets. There is ALWAYS a price to pay.

As I said in another thread, this is all just common sense. We can be greedy -- which is pretty much what got us into this mess -- or we can use some simple common sense. I'd much rather use some common sense and keep everyone reasonably content. The alternative isn't, for anyone who has studied any history at all, very pleasant.


Tansy Gold, yellin' at the kids

[Dr.Phool]

219. You tell'em!!!

:hi:

[Hugin]

234. Looks like a journal entry to me, Tansy!

:hi:

[Tansy_Gold]

236. You're right. I forgot.

Will update asap.


TG

[Wednesdays]

117. Oh, a NEW and IMPROVED bailout plan!

:rofl: Really, this time it'll work! Trust us! We're series!!!

Treasury Finally Sees Light: A New-and-Improved Bailout Plan

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/93027/Treasury-Finally-Sees-Light%3A-A-New-and-Improved-Bailout-Plan

[54anickel]

122. Poor Paulson, had to Nationalize and toss a few crumbs back to the taxpayer instead of keeping all

pie. Had to sell the Kleptos the notion of seed corn to get them to sign on to the idea.

[TalkingDog]

118. cable news flash: dow just broke below 9000

audible boos and groans heard over the talking heads....

fugly.

[Roland99]

121. -281. 8976

[Dr.Phool]

126. -363!

[Roland99]

127. -377 ... under 8,900

[CatholicEdHead]

135. -385 and dropping like a rock

I guess the new pool is locked. :hide:

[TalkingDog]

128. The talking heads are nervously chattering on

about "unprecedented territory" "Stock Market has lost over 40% of it's value since (time X) last year...."


They literally look stunned.

[TalkingDog]

129. oh, and they are doing this too......

[Renew Deal]

130. It is absolutely amazing!

:hide:

[54anickel]

136. Man, this shit is getting old. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

138. Macabre is a better word. A train wreck like I've never seen before.

And I've seen plenty of them happen.

I was a locomotive engineer on the railroad for over 30 years. And I've been involved in plenty of my own derailments. Nothing like this.

The closest I can think of was the time I was hauling 50 cars, downhill, each loaded with 5-100 ton steel slabs. And my lead engine was headed down one track, and my second engine heading down the next track!

Scary!

[TalkingDog]

144. Dood! cool job.....

favorite existential movie: Runaway Train





Yeah...I'm agreeing with you.....

[Dr.Phool]

152. Voight's face looks like the one on my brakemans'

He was on the walkway, between the engines when it happened!

[54anickel]

166. Wow, scary stuff! Can't begin to imagine what that would be like. n/t

[TalkingDog]

167. everybody okay?n/t

[TalkingDog]

139. CNBC: talking head and guest:"can we officially call this a crash?"

guest: "....well, uuuhhhh, Yes, Maria, I think that given the percentage points lost, we have to call it that."

[TrogL]

123. Loonie Watch

Highlights

Current:



30-day and 90-day vs.greenback:



30-day vs. Euro, Yen, UK Pound and Swiss Franc




Currency Comparison: http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/looniewatch.html

Detailed analysis: http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=CME_CD

Up-to-the-minute graph: http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=CME_CD.Y%24%24&v=s&w=5&t=l&a=1

Historical values http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/CAD/data30.html

2008-08-29 Friday, August 29 0.949938 USD
2008-09-01 Monday, September 1 0.940645 USD
2008-09-02 Tuesday, September 2 0.934754 USD
2008-09-03 Wednesday, September 3 0.942507 USD
2008-09-04 Thursday, September 4 0.93985 USD
2008-09-05 Friday, September 5 0.940115 USD
2008-09-08 Monday, September 8 0.935104 USD
2008-09-09 Tuesday, September 9 0.936593 USD
2008-09-10 Wednesday, September 10 0.931532 USD
2008-09-11 Thursday, September 11 0.926183 USD
2008-09-12 Friday, September 12 0.942863 USD
2008-09-15 Monday, September 15 0.937207 USD
2008-09-16 Tuesday, September 16 0.931359 USD
2008-09-17 Wednesday, September 17 0.926956 USD
2008-09-18 Thursday, September 18 0.934929 USD
2008-09-19 Friday, September 19 0.955201 USD
2008-09-22 Monday, September 22 0.963113 USD
2008-09-23 Tuesday, September 23 0.965717 USD
2008-09-24 Wednesday, September 24 0.96609 USD
2008-09-25 Thursday, September 25 0.967305 USD
2008-09-26 Friday, September 26 0.965997 USD
2008-09-29 Monday, September 29 0.962186 USD
2008-09-30 Tuesday, September 30 0.943663 USD
2008-10-01 Wednesday, October 1 0.942774 USD
2008-10-02 Thursday, October 2 0.928591 USD
2008-10-03 Friday, October 3 0.924642 USD
2008-10-06 Monday, October 6 0.906865 USD
2008-10-07 Tuesday, October 7 0.904568 USD
2008-10-08 Wednesday, October 8 0.889205 USD
2008-10-09 Thursday, October 9 0.870853 USD

Current values

http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=CME_CD)

Market            Open   High    Low   Last  Change    Pct Time
CD.Y$$ Cash     0.8891 0.8892 0.8709 0.8743 -0.0154 -1.73% 14:01 
CD.Z08 Dec 2008 0.8926 0.8940 0.8715 0.8768 -0.0165 -1.84% set 14:59 
CD.H09 Mar 2009 0.8997 0.9005 0.8980 0.8789 -0.0169 -1.88% set 15:11 
CD.M09 Jun 2009 0.9880 0.9880 0.9880 0.8796 -0.0169 -1.89% set 15:11 
CD.U09 Sep 2009 0.9350        0.9340 0.8797 -0.0162 -1.81% set 15:11 
CD.Z09 Dec 2009 0.9845 0.9845 0.9845 0.8798 -0.0162 -1.81% set 15:11 
CD.H10 Mar 2010 0.8800 0.8800 0.8800 0.8799 -0.0162 -1.81% set 11:08 
 

Other combinations: (http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?c=currencies)

Market              Open    High     Low    Last   Change     Pct 
AUSTRALIAN $/CANADIAN $ (NYBOT:AS)
ACD.Z08 Dec 2008 0.7562 0.7562 0.7562 0.7562 -0.0325 -4.30%  
EURO/BRITISH POUND (NYBOT:GB)
GB.Z08.E Dec 2008 (E) 0.7953 0.7954 0.7953 0.7954 +0.0026 +0.33%   
EURO/JAPANESE YEN (NYBOT:EJ)
EJ.Z08.E Dec 2008 (E) 137.30 138.55 136.17 136.48 +0.32 +0.23%   

Blather (from http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=CME_CD)

The December Canadian Dollar was slightly higher overnight due to light short covering as it consolidates some of this week's decline. Stochastics and the RSI are oversold but remain neutral to bearish signaling that additional weakness is possible near-term. If December extends the decline, weekly support crossing at 85.97 is the next downside target. Closes above the 20-day moving average crossing at 93.92 would confirm that a short-term low has been posted. First resistance is broken support marked by September's low crossing at 92.22. Second resistance is the 10-day moving average crossing at 92.72. First support is Wednesday's low crossing at 88.86. Second support is weekly support crossing at 85.97.

Analysis

...and the loonie's on another plunge for no good reason that anybody's able to fathom.

One of my colleagues has posted a sign on his cubicle:

When the United States sneezes, Canada catches a cold. - Trudeau

[TrogL]

200. Closing numbers, blather and analysis

Current values

http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=CME_CD)

Market            Open   High    Low   Last  Change    Pct Time
CD.Y$$ Cash     0.8891 0.8892 0.8709 0.8745 -0.0152 -1.71% 15:01 
CD.Z08 Dec 2008 0.8926 0.8940 0.8715 0.8768 -0.0165 -1.84% set 14:59 
CD.H09 Mar 2009 0.8997 0.9005 0.8980 0.8789 -0.0169 -1.88% set 15:11 
CD.M09 Jun 2009 0.9880 0.9880 0.9880 0.8796 -0.0169 -1.89% set 15:11 
CD.U09 Sep 2009 0.9350        0.9340 0.8797 -0.0162 -1.81% set 15:11 
CD.Z09 Dec 2009 0.9845 0.9845 0.9845 0.8798 -0.0162 -1.81% set 15:11 
CD.H10 Mar 2010 0.8800 0.8800 0.8800 0.8799 -0.0162 -1.81% set 11:08 

Other combinations: (http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?c=currencies)

Market              Open    High     Low    Last   Change     Pct 
AUSTRALIAN $/CANADIAN $ (NYBOT:AS)
ACD.Z08 Dec 2008 0.7965 0.7965 0.7965 0.7965 +0.0403 +5.33%  
EURO/BRITISH POUND (NYBOT:GB)
GB.Z08.E Dec 2008 (E) 0.7953 0.7954 0.7953 0.7954 +0.0026 +0.33%   
EURO/JAPANESE YEN (NYBOT:EJ)
EJ.Z08.E Dec 2008 (E) 137.30 138.55 135.83 135.83 -0.33 -0.24%   

Blather (from http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=CME_CD)

The December Canadian dollar closed down 179 points at .8754 today. Prices closed nearer the session low again today and hit another fresh contract low. Bears still have solid downside near-term technical momentum and gained more power today.


Analysis

...and the bloodbath continues. Looks like the bot broke and somebody had to type it manually.

People need to understand that while the US is our biggest trading partner, they're not Canada's only trading partner and Canada still has lots to sell.

[antigop]

132. WSJ: Breaking news:S&P places General Motors & GMAC ratings on watch with negative implications

Just a banner:"S&P places General Motors & GMAC ratings on watch with negative implications. Shares of GM have been sharply lower all session, and currently are down 20%."

[Dr.Phool]

133. Iz de Pool closed boss?

Dow 8881....and sinking.

[AnneD]

137. Our closing theme for the day....

Ball Room Blitz :headbang:

[Dr.Phool]

140. Holy shit! Down 569!

The opened the wrong box and let demons out instead!

[CatholicEdHead]

142. -636 and dropping fast

[Mojorabbit]

Holy Shit! nt

[MsLeopard]

143. Down 618 now!

Man, this is scary....

[bain_sidhe]

160. Yep, it's closed

I go away for an hour and look what happens! It appears from the larger DJIA chart at NYT that it officially closed somewhere around quarter after 3.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

141. No no no no no no!!!!

[TalkingDog]

145. Awesome image! n/t

[Dr.Phool]

146. -650! Maria looks like she's sitting in shitty drawers!

Somebody throw Cramer out the window! He's the jinx!

[CatholicEdHead]

149. Lots of panic in her voice

They probably had to settle her down over the commercial break.

[AnneD]

217. Think I'll send her this nice little

letter from main street I've been saving.

[TalkingDog]

147. Hello 8600! n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

153. 85's

[Wednesdays]

150. 7% losses for the day

Down 650.

Edit: Ah, now the faeries come to life...more than 100 points recovered.

Clap, boys and girls, clap! :applause:

[Cerridwen]

154. S & P sneaking up (down) on 900...

last couple of minutes...no faeries...unless they're using some of that "dry powder" instead of faerie dust.

:(

[CatholicEdHead]

155. Dow "up" to -520 and slowly rising

[Dr.Phool]

158. The 5-minute faeries have arrived!

[Cerridwen]

157. Faeries! 8700.

:eyes:

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

156. Little bit of Faerie action now.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

159. Culling the suckers.

[TalkingDog]

161. time stops.....n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

164. ---edited by Homeland Security---

[54anickel]

162. GM falls to 1950 levels; European sales stung

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gm-falls-1950-levels-european/story.aspx?guid=%7BC503DCF6%2D2571%2D42CD%2DAFA4%2D682958304034%7D&siteid=yhoof

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) - General Motors Corp. shares, already reeling from the widening credit crisis that has crippled Wall Street, fell as much as 22% on Thursday, dropping to closing levels last seen around Christmas time in 1950.

To put the current price tag in perspective, the Dow Jones Industrial Average, of which GM is a component, was trading at a mere 235 points at that point.

In fact, the last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20 cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37 cents, and houses went for $16,000.

As the closing bell approached, GM was down $1.46 at $5.45 while rival Ford Motor Co. was faring only slightly better, off 14% at $2.29.

more...

Amazing to look at the amount of purchasing power the buck has lost over the years....

[CatholicEdHead]

163. Wow in the last 15min it was -636+ up to -400 and going down again

We may be -600 again by close.

[TalkingDog]

165. I saw that and though my eyes had gone....n/t

[theDash]

170. could be close to -700

when dust settles

[TalkingDog]

168. according to CNBC 8612 down 646.02

some settling may occur....

[Mojorabbit]

169. -668 on yahoo nt

[FreeStateDemocrat]

176. –7.33%–678.91@ NYTimes

[CatholicEdHead]

180. That is were it has apparently settled for the day

:hide:

[CatholicEdHead]

171. That looks like the lowest point of the day so far

Even lower than the drop 30min (only!) ago. :crazy: You can get whiplash just watching the market nowadays. :hide:

[Dr.Phool]

172. Still sinking -660

[Tansy_Gold]

192. Common sense -- a commodity in short supply it would seem -- told us

this would happen, didn't it?

and weren't there those among us who said this NEEDED to happen in order to wake up those who were most likely to be hurt and yet who, by sheer numbers, had the power to change it?


I said the other day that I'd try to find time to dig through my archives for stuff on the Enron collapse in 2000. I still don't really have time, but I found this little gem from Krugman. Highlights are mine.



November 12, 2000
RECKONINGS
Downhill From Here?
By PAUL KRUGMAN

So the election is still in doubt. As of Friday evening Mr. Bush led in Florida by a margin smaller than the enrollment in my Econ 102 class; I'm no constitutional scholar, but I think we should suspend judgment until those absentee ballots have come in and some of the votes have been triple-checked.

But however it comes out, how will economic policy fare? The answer, I'm afraid, is badly.

Broadly speaking, the next administration, whatever it is, will face two big economic tests. One — the one that was the center of the campaign — is whether it can stick to a fiscal policy, including a policy toward Social Security, that prepares this country for the demographic deluge. The other is whether it can deal adequately with the risk of economic instability, both here and, especially, abroad.

Unfortunately, whoever wins we are likely to botch one or both tests.

In the last few years we actually started to have an almost responsible fiscal policy; but it was mainly an accident, the result both of an unexpected surge in revenues and of a deadlock that prevented either party from dissipating those revenues. If Mr. Gore ends up being declared president, that deadlock will continue, with an added dose of vituperation; so I guess you could say that that's a good thing.

Many commentators have been suggesting that if it's Mr. Bush, our fiscal policy will be almost equally tight — that the moral ambiguity of Mr. Bush's victory, together with the narrowness of his party's hold on Congress, would deter him from implementing the budget-busting proposals he made during the campaign. I'm not so sure.

Suppose that what we all fear turns out to be true — that a Bush presidency is really a Trent Lott regency. Wouldn't the hard-line conservatives who run Congress try to rush through as much as possible — tax cuts, a diversion of Social Security taxes into private accounts, whatever they can pass — just in case they lost control of the legislature in 2002?

Congress managed to run through about $900 billion of the surplus in the three months or so leading up to this election; think of what it might do in two years.

And then there's the other problem: economic instability.

It's amazing how quickly the terrifying financial crises of the 1990's have faded from memory. The globalization of financial markets created many new opportunities for things to go disastrously wrong, and they often did. In that unstable world the Clinton administration was willing to play firefighter, and — in my opinion — did a yeoman job of containing a series of blazes that could easily have engulfed much of the world. But would either candidate be willing and able to do the same?

Mr. Gore would have the will — and, if he keeps on some of the key players from the Clinton administration, the skilled team — to contain the fires next time. But one doubts whether he would have the room to maneuver. Congressional leaders violently opposed the Mexican rescue of 1995 — the rescue that, again in my opinion, saved Mexican reform and made this year's remarkable democratic transition in that nation possible. Mr. Clinton was able to carry out that rescue only by exploiting a legal loophole that has since been closed. And until the next Congressional election anyway, a Gore administration would be even more hobbled.

Mr. Bush might have the room to act — though he would have to fight his own party to do so — but one wonders whether he would have the will. Mr. Bush's economic advisers are a mixed bag, but the inner circle seems to consist of men who have a purist opposition to government intervention in markets. My guess is that this would eventually change — there are no atheists in foxholes, and no purist free-marketeers in banking crises — but a lot could go wrong in the meantime.

As luck would have it, our election took place during a sunny interval when neither of our big economic problems seemed pressing. A booming economy and a soaring stock market had filled federal coffers; Asia had, sort of, recovered from its 1997-98 financial crisis. But the
clouds are already gathering. I expect to see those projected surpluses dwindle rapidly over the next year or so. And by a number of indicators the global financial picture is deteriorating again.

So fix this year in your memory; you may not see one as good for quite a while.

[Demeter]

224. Clinton Made It Look Easy

That's what intelligence, competence, a minimal set of ethics, and hard work will do.

Shrub just thought he could sit there, bark out a few commands, and push a button or two.

This is the result....

[TalkingDog]

173. and this, literally, says it all.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/sad-scared-traders-the-gl_n_133193.html

[Wednesdays]

187. Just wondering about the traders...

:shrug:
Do they have a personal stake in where the market lies? In other words, unless they work on a commission basis, don't they still receive their paychecks, regardless as to what the numbers say? So, why the depression? Now their clients, on the other hand... :cry:

Maybe what we're seeing in the pics is pure exhaustion, due to the incredible volume of trading of late?

[TalkingDog]

196. hmmm....well, you feel sorry for their clients, they probably do too.

I know I'd take it personally.

Hell. I don't even have that much in stocks (bits and pieces of retirement stuff) and I think it sucks....

[Dr.Phool]

177. We're only 117 pts from a new pool winner......already.

[CatholicEdHead]

183. CNBC said that the market fits a Bear Market (-20%) just for Oct alone

and we are all of 9 days in and 7 trading days in. :hide:

[Neshanic]

188. Really, you had no time to get the fabulous prizes for the winner!

[antigop]

179. The looming Lehman CDS unwind

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/

On the heels of similar auction processes for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Washington Mutual late last month will be the expected Friday settlement for buyers of about $400 billion of protection on Lehman Brothers debt.

For now, traders in the equity market are concerned about the prospects for the settlement, adding that its uncertainty is casting a dark cloud over the most likely holders of the debt — big banks such as Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase.

This Lehman credit default swaps settlement auction will likely be one of the most expensive payouts in the history of that market, something the government is certainly keeping an eye on.

The Fed has called a second meeting to discuss the settlement of Lehman CDSs, among other issues, on Friday. “They think there is still counterparty risk out there. But, if we get through that hurdle without too many issues then you will see a more stable market into next week,” said John O’Donoghue, head of equities for Cowen & Co.

O’Donoghue said the Fed is trying to make sure there is a “smooth” settlement process where that agency can then move towards making the settlement process a more government-regulated, centralized market.

[Cerridwen]

181. Weird. My little graph on the yahoo finance page went missing.

There one reload, gone the next.

edit: found it. Operator error aka PEBCAL. LOL

[Mojorabbit]

185. Looks like settling to -678.91 nt

[UpInArms]

184. end of the day mess!

I go away for a day and look what happens!

Dow 8,579.19 678.91 (7.33%)
Nasdaq 1,645.12 95.21 (5.47%)
S&P 500 909.92 75.02 (7.62%)
10-Yr Bond 3.836% 0.121

NYSE Volume 8,283,327,000
Nasdaq Volume 2,622,316,750

3:30 pm : The latest bout of selling pushed the Dow Jones Industrial Average below 9000, which is the first time it has traded below that level in little more than five years. The volatility index, VIX, has moved above 60 for the first time ever.

Bearishness remains widespread. 24 of the 30 companies trading in the Dow are in the red.

Dow component General Motors (GM 5.26, -1.65) has been placed on CreditWatch Negative at Standard & Poor's. The placement reflects the weakening state of global automotive markets, along with capital market conditions that will remain a serious challenge. GMAC, GM's 49% owned finance facility, was also put on CreditWatch Negative.

All ten of the major economic sectors are at session lows. The current tone marks a stark contrast to the first leg of the trading session, when the major indices were each sporting gains in excess of 2%.DJ30 -392.66 NASDAQ -52.87 SP500 -48.46 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 622/2.13 bln/2293 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 480/1.21 bln/2565

3:00 pm : Stocks in the S&P 500 fell to new session lows amid intensifying losses in financials and energy. Both sectors are down roughly 5.6%.

The decline has put energy at its lowest level of the session. Financials have a bit more to lose before hitting the 6.6% loss it was showing earlier.

The session's decline has taken the S&P 500 to a new low for the year. It is currently down almost 35% year-to-date. DJ30 -256.78 NASDAQ -37.16 SP500 -32.90 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 879/1.89 bln/2003 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 675/1.09 bln/2360

[ozymandius]

208. It's like one of my classrooms. If I turn my head all hell breaks loose.

Here's some closing blather.

4:30 pm : Stocks finished the session near their lows Thursday, despite beginning the trading day with healthy gains. A late-session sell-off took the Dow to its lowest level in more than five years and a long-time Dow component to its worst point since 1950.

Trading was upbeat early on when tech bellwether IBM (IBM 89.00, -1.55) preannounced a third quarter earnings surprise, central banks in the Far East cut interest rates, and investors assessed comments from the Treasury that indicated it may inject capital directly into banks.

Dow component IBM gave investors some temporary reassurance that the tech sector hasn't turned over. IBM said that third quarter earnings would total $2.05 per share, which is more than analysts were expecting. On the downside, the company did fall short of the consensus revenue forecast, but stated it remains confident it will hit its full-year earnings forecast of $8.75 per share.

Tech posted a gain for much of the session, but finished 3.4% lower.

Central banks in South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan all moved to cut target interest rates, according to Financial Times. The move came just one day after the Federal Reserve and several other major central banks slashed interest rates in a coordinated effort to mitigate economic risks.

Investors reacted to a speech made yesterday by Treasury Secretary Paulson that the recently approved $700 billion emergency financial rescue plan would permit direct capital infusions into banks. Reuters reported injections could start as soon as the end of the month.

Despite the plan's intent to help shore up balance sheets at financial companies, the sector was hit with heavy selling pressure. It was up 3.6% early on, but closed 11.7% lower as every one of its industry groups floundered. Losses were most significant among regional banks (-15.2%), investment banks and brokers (-15.7%), and insurance companies (-16.8%).

Part of the ongoing efforts to shore up the financial system have the New York Fed entering into an agreement with subsidiaries of AIG (AIG 2.39, -0.80). Their agreement calls for the subsidiaries to exchange investment grade fixed income securities for up to $37.8 billion in cash.

The energy sector (-11.4%) also posted deep losses. The downturn is generally owed to fear of demand destruction for oil amid slower economic activity.

In turn, oil futures were recently indicated below $85 per barrel, down nearly 12% year-to-date. That has OPEC calling for an emergency meeting Nov. 18. It is being presumed that OPEC will agree to cut production.

Thursday marked the first session after the ban on short-selling certain financial stocks expired. The ban was originally limited to 799 financial stocks, but was later expanded to include some nonfinancial companies, such as Dow component General Motors (GM 4.76 -2.15).

Shares of GM have been consistently listed on the Dow since 1925, but slumped to their lowest level since 1950 as participants assess the challenges facing the company. GM was placed on CreditWatch Negative at Standard & Poor's as the firm assessed the weakening state of global automotive markets, along with capital market conditions that remain challenging.

Heavy selling pressure pushed the Dow well below 9000. The index has not been that low since mid-2003. The session's action also had the volatility index, VIX, above 60 for the first time ever.

The latest initial claims report was generally relegated to the back burner since it didn't bring any surprises. Claims for the week ended Oct. 4 fell 20,000 to 478,000, which is generally in-line with the consensus estimate of 475,000. The four-week moving average bumped up to 482,500 and continuing claims hit 3.66 million from 3.60 million the week before. DJ30 -678.91 NASDAQ -95.21 SP500 -75.02 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 470/2.99 bln/2515 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 205/2.00 bln/2859

[ramapo]

212. Holy shit is right

I have a pretty strong stomach for the ups and downs and generally don't pay much attention. What is happening now is absolutely stunning and I my only hope is that it is like a bad case of food poisoning...comes on quick, dramatic, awful, makes you just want to die and then it is over. You feel like crap for days, but in a week or two you're all better. Of course, now and then, the patient dies, overwhelmed by the disease.

Clearly we are talking years to recover from this and I certainly can't say that I haven't seen this coming for years. It is a surprise that it has taken so long and that only makes the situation worse. It is pretty scary to watch the shit finally hitting the fan and realize that there is plenty of it coming my way.

[cal04]

189. U.S. stocks spiral to fresh five-year lows at close

U.S. stock losses on Thursday accelerated sharply in the final 30 minutes of trade, pushing the Dow Jones Industrial Average under the 9,000 level for the first time since August 2003, as the globe's credit troubles continued to spark panic. The Dow Jones Industrial Average ($INDU: 8,582.13, -675.97, -7.3%) dropped 678.91 points to 8,579.19, leaving it nearly 40% lower than its year-ago high of 14,164.53. The S&P 500 ($SPX: 909.92, -75.02, -7.6%) declined 74.8 points to 910.14, and the Nasdaq Composite (COMP: 1,645.12, -95.21, -5.5%) shed 95.21 points to 1,645.12.

BULLETIN THIRD-BIGGEST SINGLE-SESSION POINT DECLINE LEAVES DOW INDUSTRIALS 40% BELOW YEAR-AGO PEAK

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-stocks-spiral-fresh-five-year/story.aspx?guid=%7B120A256F%2D1E54%2D4173%2D8543%2D7890B57EB8A1%7D&dist=hplatest

[Roland99]

190. Was there specific news or were short holding off for a big F U at the end?

[cal04]

193. credit issues

and GM

[JNelson6563]

191. Holy Shit!

:wow:

[flamingdem]

198. Apparently lots of put buying on XLF, GE, Citibank

Someone will make money.

[CatholicEdHead]

199. CNBC's Fast Money opened with "Crash" and "Cascading Crash"

It sounds like the government should buy everything as the only recovery solution.

[Demeter]

203. Did You HEAR Andrei Codrescu on NPR This Evening?

He told about being asked to fix the economy, so he did, and everybody had their houses paid for, and got off the grid through proper use of the Bailout money to buy solar and chain saws and wood stoves, and since they had no jobs, people grew their own food, cut their own firewood, stopped watching TV and never went shopping,,,,

So the government sent out the army, to start up the economy by dispossessing all these self-sufficient independent people.

[Demeter]

202. Taking the Philosophical View

This truly was the best time for such a disaster--it will sweep the Bushies, the Fundies, and the GOP out, and energize the rabble to see that ALL the criminals are prosecuted, asset-stripped and jailed. Bush and Co. will be hustled off to the Hague as part of the economic workout. Angela Merkel will have her revenge.

With the collapse of globalism, real jobs producing tangible goods and useful services will revive in every nation. Interest rates will become real again, compensating for the use of real money. True election reform will happen.

With $3 Trillion of "funny money" already vanished, and probably and equal amount still on the books for a few months more until it is written off, the massive Bush inflation will revert to a massive Bush deflation in jig time.

The sooner this process is completed, the sooner life returns to something like a real economy. Painful, yes, but hopefully much shorter than the First Great Depression, and no WWIII needed to get us out of it, but instead, peace in our time and the greening of America and other places, too. (Actually, other places are much further along than we).

The big issues will be public health, clean water, and the food supply. We have a lot of expertise in these areas, and they can't all have died or retired already.

Finance will be a dead field, worse than nuclear engineering after Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

It could be much worse. I'm sure Bush and Cheney tried--but they are out of luck and out of time!



We will get universal single payer health care. This I believe.

[antigop]

204. Thanks for the dose of optimism, Demeter -- it is appreciated and I hope you are correct. n/t

[Ghost Dog]

205. URGENT - Bush seeks to reassure Americans on economy

WASHINGTON (AP) - As the stock market plunged to its lowest level in five years, the White House on Thursday sought to assure anxious Americans that the United States is working aggressively to stabilize the nation's chaotic financial system.

In a new effort to calm the crisis, President Bush will make a statement on the economy Friday in the Rose Garden.

''He will assure the American people that they should be confident that economic officials are aggressively taking every action to stabilize our financial system,'' White House press secretary Dana Perino said. ''The Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and the FDIC all have the necessary tools to address the problems we are facing.''

''The Treasury Department is moving quickly to use new tools to improve liquidity, which is the root cause of this problem,'' she said. ''Americans should be confident that every effort is being taken to stabilize our markets.''

AP-WS-10-09-08 1730EDT - http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=BUSINESS&ID=565382988238816809
________

Glad I was watching Alejandro González Iñárritu's great movie "BABEL" this evening instead of the markets. :shocked:

Communication: The mixed messages of monetary guardians: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/06a95728-94cb-11dd-953e-000077b07658,dwp_uuid=715c2e08-9078-11dd-8abb-0000779fd18c.html

[CatholicEdHead]

206. There probably will be an inter-day drop as and soon after he speaks

A couple hours after that who knows what will happen. It might be a profit taking day up with the fall continuing next week. :scared:

[ozymandius]

209. So I expect we'll see the Dow under 3000 by this time tomorrow.

Kidding, of course. But I cannot imagine why anyone would schedule the piehole to open while trading is taking place. History has taken a dim view of such things.

[truthisfreedom]

213. The rest of the administration is fully aware of the piehole effect. He's not going to address

the nation while the stock market is open, and even if he does it while the market is closed the futures will plummet.

There ain't no solution today. Maybe Monday, certainly by Thursday, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is significantly more blood until then.

[Barrett808]

218. "liquidity...is the root cause of this problem" -- NOT!

It's not a liquidity crisis, it's an insolvency crisis, asshat.

We are doomed.

[Demeter]

220. Well, then, I f Everybody Knows What He's Going to Read Off the Teleprompter

can't we just take it as said and be spared the pain?

[amandabeech]

207. I wonder if the curbs on short selling will come off tomorrow.

What a day.

[Roland99]

216. I thought the ban expired last night?

[Dr.Phool]

221. It did

[Pale Blue Dot]

223. Didn't they extend the ban to the 17th? nt

[amandabeech]

226. Thanks, folks.

I guess that I'm a day behind.

P.S. Asia is tanking.

[Dr.Phool]

229. Boy, is it ever.

:nuke:

[ozone_man]

222. Banning short selling was a red herring

meant to instill confidence in the markets. It did nothing to prevent the drops up until today. The shorts just use puts instead. Also, I think a lot of the selling is from longs realizing they're going to lose everything if they stay in the market.

Also, I think the SEC felt pressured to ban short selling after Paulson blamed financials dropping on short selling.

[Roland99]

227. March 22, 2007 - Obama's letter to Bernanke and Paulson re: Homeownership Summit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7389637&mesg_id=7389637

[JNelson6563]

228. More leadership from Obama!

Two things I love to see: More Dem leadership and this thread at the top of LBN at 10 pm at night! Of course the futures charts are uselss as are the as-it-plays-out charts till the end of the dayl. FUrures can read and thing and the markets can open at whatever, you still don't know how the day will play out.

Julie

[Roland99]

230. *** READ ME**** I think I found out where all the money went to today....

Everything dropped today. Treasuries, Stocks, Commodities.... It's all going to cash.


http://www.rgemonitor.com/
What Is Really Bothering Markets: Lehman's CDS Settlement on October 10 With A $360bn Expected Payout


Comments here:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/10/lehman-cds-unwi.html

[Roland99]

231. More about the Lehman $360 billion CDS auction tomorrow (which apparently triggered today's panic)

CNBC contributor David Kotok stating the hoarding of cash to cover the Lehman CDS auction tomorrow will be over then and the uncertainty will be gone from the markets re: this event and things should stabilize. Someone else mentioning LIBOR will stabilize and drop and credit will open up things can begin to recover.

But...this can't be the only expiration of CDS contracts now or soon, eh?

[Dogmudgeon]

232. Correctamundo, Cunningham

That's the way we have a market panic these days -- everybody seeks refuge in cash and metal. Paper is no longer trusted.

I'm pretty sure this is The Beginning Of The End ... of an economic era. Just like an autumn 79 years ago. There have already been at least three suicides of finance professionals that have made the news. I fully expect to see a distraught middle-class guy take a semi-automatic and/or a bomb into an office of a bank or finance company and cause some serious misery. The response to overwhelming pain is as tragically stereotypical as the cry of victim of torture -- or the silence of unconsciousness.

I don't wish to be idly apocalyptic. These things are natural and, to a point, predictable. The world played Finance as a high-stakes game of chance and deceit for decades, and this is the result. We can only hope that Barack Obama wins the presidency and can be even half the reformer FDR was.

But I'm alive. I can still enjoy life. I have a couple of friends and a supportive family. My health is rather poor, but I lucked out and got medical assistance before "the fit hit the shan". Most people are going to muddle through. I guess our biggest job is going to be to help those who can't muddle through -- and to rebuild the economic system.

--p!

[JNelson6563]

235. Very interesting! I wondered where it was hiding!

Nice catch, thanks for posting. :toast:

Julie