NTSB: Remains found at Steve Fossett wreckage site

[question everything]

Source: AP

MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. (AP) — Federal investigators said Thursday they found human remains amid the wreckage of missing adventurer Steve Fossett's airplane in the mountains of eastern California. The remains were found among a field of debris that stretched 400 feet long and 150 feet wide in a steep section of the Sierra Nevada. Some personal effects also were found at the crash site but investigators would not describe them in any detail.

"We found human remains, but there's very little. Given the length of time the wreckage has been out there, it's not surprising there's not very much," said National Transportation Safety Board acting Chairman Mark Rosenker said. "I'm not going to elaborate on what it is."

(snip)

The rugged area, situated about 65 miles from the ranch, had been flown over 19 times by the California Civil Air Patrol during the initial search, Anderson said. But it had not been considered a likely place to find the plane. Instead, searchers had concentrated on an area north of Mammoth Lakes, given what they knew about sightings of Fossett's plane, his travel plans and the amount of fuel he had.

"With it being an extremely mountainous area, it doesn't surprise me they had not found the aircraft there before," Lyon County Undersheriff Joe Sanford said. As for what might have caused the wreck, Mono County, Calif., Undersheriff Ralph Obenberger said there were large storm clouds over the peaks around Mammoth Lakes on the day of the crash.



Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gfmXbQn-RFLHSjd8_s23ytiM6OVAD93ILIOO0

[napi21]

1. How far is this from where they were searching? Did he go far off

the course they thought he took that they didn't find this wreckage back when they were doing such a wide search?

[medeak]

7. in a total different state n/t

[ben_meyers]

8. But only 90 miles from where he took off. n/t

[medeak]

15. to be exact

121 mi from Yerington.

and he didn't file a flight plan. NV National Guard was searching all the way to Vegas. Prob Republican.... too good to follow the rules the rest of us abide by.

[whyverne]

17. There are no rules for filing flight plans

Actually you only file a flight plan when you have a definite destination in mind. You don't file a flight plan when you just go out flying around.

[medeak]

18. father-in-law member of civil air patrol

and he ALWAYS RELIGIOUSLY files a flight plan.

Pray tell what is the time you would recommend for a state funded search for a missing pilot? Because I find 1.6 million dollars way out of the norm.

[bdab1973]

19. Maybe you need to read up on the rules...

Because as the previous poster stated, there are no requirements to file a flight plan for a VFR (visual flight rules) flight. It is only recommended, and even in that case, if you're navigating via visual landmarks, a flight plan will only give searchers a rough idea of where to look. Fossett had no obligation to file, especially if he was just doing a VFR round-robin flight. Certain organizations (such as the USAF, who I fly for) require flight plans in every situation. But Fossett was flying his aircraft under FAR part 91, hence no legal requirement to do so.

For IFR flights (instrument flight rules) or flights conducted VFR but using the IFR route system, a flight plan is required.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. RIP dude

we should all go doing what we love

[TomInTib]

4. Damn right.

I used to think that a fitting end for me would be getting killed by a jealous husband.

Then I realized that married women were simply too much hassle.

[aquart]

5. So how do you want to go NOW, Tom?

[TomInTib]

9. In my sleep

I have grown old, aquart.

I want to play some of my own favorite songs

Stumble down familiar stairs, loaded to the gills

And wake up, dead

That's pretty much it, aquart...

Tom

[SpookyCat]

10. I want to die in a way

that makes people at my funeral giggle. A funny, slapsticky, Warner Bros sort of thing...or really silly last words.

I want people to say after I'm dead..."she would have thought that was hilarious!" :-)

[medeak]

6. he should have filed a friggin flight plan

my State's National Guard spent 1.6 million looking for him

[bdab1973]

23. As I said in another post...

A flight plan probably would have been of little help in this situation. A VFR flight plan is only a general idea of where a pilot is going. That's part of the reason pilots fly VFR, is for the flexibility...filing a VFR flight plan only gives a general area to search, versus an IFR flight plan where a pilot would be flying a known route to known navigational aids and/or GPS waypoints. It's not uncommon for an aircraft to depart on a scenic flight over sparsely populated areas and not come back, and the search resources spend days looking to no avail. The only reason why Fossett's search cost so much is because they searched for nearly a month...most searches are called off after a week or two. He got more attention because he's a public figure. Same goes for the recovery efforts with JFK Jr. No other pilot would have received that much SAR/recovery effort...and he took off on a marginal VFR night with no horizon and little to no IFR flying skills. Such is life...I am sure if I had planted my aircraft into the water, they would have spent all of a couple days fishing what they could, and that would be that. But then again, I'm not Steve Fossett or JFK Jr. either.

[ThePhoenix]

3. Wreckage spotted in renewed search for Fossett

Wreckage spotted in renewed search for Fossett
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3522690

Search Teams Find Fossett Wreckage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x389837

:)

[question everything]

14. This was the wreckage

now they found human remains (presumably his)

[Politicalboi]

11. How come they don't have

Tracking devices on planes? I think for wilderness hikers going into National Parks and possibly skiing should have a tracker. It costs so much to find these people. Even experts get lost sometimes.

[murielm99]

16. They do have them,

but they have to be turned on.

I don't know very much about this, but I remember reading this a long time ago.

We have some aviators who post here. I hope one of them replies to your post. I admit my ignorance.

[bdab1973]

21. It's called an ELT

Emergency Locator Transmitter...it has a three position switch...OFF, ON and armed. The armed position is essentially a g-switch, when impacted with enough force it will turn the ELT on automatically. MOST aircraft are equipped with an ELT, although there are exceptions, such as certain categories of aircraft operations and aircraft equipped to carry only one person, etc. A Bellanca would probably have an ELT.

There are limits to ELTs, however. If the crash is severe enough it could disable an ELT, or if it was left in the OFF position, it won't come on in a crash...or if the batteries were dead it won't work either. It's possible Fossett's aircraft didn't have an ELT, but based on the type of aircraft it probably would have one if he maintained it to standards.

[TaffyMoon]

12. I think he would have wanted to die this way -

on an adventure...

[mackerel]

13. I thought it was a requirement to file a flight plan?

Some guy just hiking around found his wallet with $1000.00 and ID in it yesterday or maybe the day before. That's what lead them to search the area yesterday.

[bdab1973]

20. No requirement for private aircraft operating VFR

IFR, yes, you must file a flight plan. VFR operating in the IFR route system, you must file a flight plan. Many organizations (USAF, part 135 commercial operators, etc) require flight plans. But Fossett was not required to file one. A good idea? Sure, it gives SAR folks a place to start looking for you. BUT, a flight plan is only so good...a pilot flying VFR is under no obligation to fly a particular route filed on a flight plan, and if he/she deviates from that route, the flight plan is useless. Fossett apparently also deviated from his expected flight path, but there was nothing requiring him to fly any particular route. That's the freedom you get with straight VFR flying...you can go just about anywhere. You just have to avoid Class A, B, C or D airspace...although a VFR pilot can often get clearance to enter B, C or D airspace (Class A airspace, formerly known as a PCA, is above 18,000 feet and for IFR traffic only). Class B, C and D refers to tower-controlled airports, with B being the busiest airspace (ie, LAX, JFK, etc) and D the smaller tower-controlled airports (ie, Fort Smith, Arkansas). Class C are medium-sized airports (Little Rock, AR).

Should Fossett have filed a flight plan? It wouldn't have hurt. Although it seems he deviated from his intended path anyways, the flight plan wouldn't have had much value. Such are the risks if you fly VFR over wild terrain.

[Wabbajack_]

22. He didn't pocket the $$?

Wow.