Pakistanis Flee Into Afghanistan

[Posteritatis]

Source: BBC News

The UN says 20,000 people have fled Pakistan's tribal area of Bajaur for Afghanistan amid fighting between troops and militants in recent months.

The UN's refugee agency says almost 4,000 families have crossed north-west into Afghanistan's Kunar province.

The army began a sustained campaign against militants in Bajaur nearly two months ago.

Some 300,000 others have fled east within Pakistan in recent weeks with many of them living in temporary camps.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7642015.stm

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... People are fleeing into Afghanistan.

It is seen as preferable.

Guh.

[aquart]

1. How many wars without end do we plan to fight?

Just curious.

[maxsolomon]

2. WHERE are they crossing?

are they passing through a border station or just wandering over a mountain pass?

5 years in & the border isn't remotely secured.

[High Plains]

3. Have you ever looked at the terrain on the Afghan-Pakistan border?

Pretty tough to control. Remember, the US is a first world country and we can't control our borders. Also, the border is the Durand Line, drawn by a British colonial diplomat to divide the Pashtuns into two separate countries. The Pashtuns could give a fuck about the Durand Line.

[maxsolomon]

4. yes i've looked at it on Google Earth, & i spend a great deal of time in mountains

that are as, if not more rugged, than those of the FATA. i know that if something's called a "pass", it's likely the only way over a ridge/mountain within 5 or 6 miles.

the US military knows this as well as i do. with the taliban highways that seem to exist over the passes, i wonder what are their measures to monitor cross-border traffic? whatever they are, they don't seem effective, considering the limitless budget & technology that can be thrown at the problem.

[High Plains]

7. Hmmm, I don't know about "Taliban highways"...

They could just be paths through the mountains, with vehicles on either side of the frontier. I don't know.

Another factor is that, as I alluded to above, there is a lot of cross-border traffic that doesn't bother with formalities like border crossings and checkpoints. Hard to tell a Talib from anyone else.

Perhaps high-tech surveillance has its limits, or its financial constraints.

Again, I refer you to the US' inability to effectively monitor its own borders.

Perhaps we need to look for a different solution to this problem.

[maxsolomon]

9. hint: the talibs are the ones carrying grenade launchers

we control the borders or we accept the guerilla war. they will outlast us, and when we're gone, terrorize the populace in the exact same way as before.

[happyslug]

8. That border has NEVER been secure

The reason being the Mountains are inhabited by the same tribes on BOTH sides of the Mountain. The tribe members first (And only) loyalty is to their tribe NOT whatever country they happen to be in. In fact the whole area was viewed as the frontier during British colonial rule, and Pakistan has only ruled the area with permission of the local since 1947 (and the agreement was for the Pakistan army to stay OUR except if someone actually invaded other then another tribe. One of the problems we faced in Afghanistan was that Pakistan had supported the Taliban in their conquest of Afghanistan from Pathan tribal areas in Pakistan, and the Pathans moved through Afghanistan using the fact the people they were conquering were fellow Pathans. This conquest lasted till the Pathans ran into the northern alliance of non-Pathan tribes supported with Russian arms. The Conquest then stagnated till 9/11 when the US invaded Afghanistan and drove the Taliban back to its Tribal base (Which happened to be in Pakistan and supported, but not controlled, by Pakistan). This lead to a huge hostile population in the Mountain regions of Pakistan that the Pakistan had to deal with carefully (Let open Civil War start).

One of the Jokes about Afghanistan was it was made for Cartographers, so Cartographers would not have to leave the area of their maps empty.

[libodem]

5. My best guess is

we are paying Pakistan, to kill militants, so they are randomly out killing people to earn the money we give them. There is a good Ken Follet book about the Soviet/Afghanistan war. I read it years ago and can't remember the name of it just now, but what I learned from it was the men who do the fighting are not like a regular organized army. They are fathers, uncles and brothers who live among the people. They go home at night to little villages carved out of mountain sides. I'm not saying I know everything from reading one fiction about a war in the 80's but these are poor and rather primitive people just trying to survive. The US is on a fucking manhunt and every male over 11 in deemed a terrorist and if they are at home we just take out the whole family. We did it all over Iraq. We've done it all over Afghanistan. And the Chaneybush has a big woodie to do it all over Iran. Just kill every male over 11 and get their family while you're at it. That's just how I see things. I'll google Follet to see if I can find that novel.

[libodem]

6. LIE DOWN WITH LIONS

I'll tell you what that book made me hate what the Soviets did to the Afghan people. And then to think the bush bastard went in to do the same thing. I know every one thinks this is the legitimate war front but as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on that one.

[ohio2007]

10. Pakistan replaces powerful spy agency chief

question is, will he saty fired ?

ISLAMABAD (AFP)

Pakistan has replaced the head of its powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in an apparent bid to clean up the military spy agency amid western claims that it secretly backs the Taliban.

Lieutenant General Ahmed Shujaa Pasha, formerly head of military operations, was appointed director general of the ISI late Monday, a terse military statement announced. He replaces Lieutenant General Nadeem Taj.

The move was part of a major shake-up of the army's top brass after U.S., Afghan and Indian officials alleged in recent months that the shadowy organization was complicit in the Taliban insurgency wracking the region.


Pasha is widely considered to be a close aide to Pakistani military chief Ashfaq Kayani, who ran the ISI until October last year. Taj, his predecessor, was a key lieutenant of former president Pervez Musharraf.



snip

Afghanistan, which is supposed to be Pakistan's ally against extremism, and India, Islamabad's historic foe, accused the ISI of involvement in the deadly bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul in July.

Pakistan strongly denies any such links, although Musharraf admitted in 2006 that some retired Pakistani intelligence officers may have been abetting extremists.

The ISI is feared at home as it plays a central, although covert, political role in a country that has spent more than half of its 61-year history under military rule.

The change in the ISI comes after the government led by President Asif Ali Zardari, the widower of slain former premier Benazir Bhutto, tried to put the elite agency under the control of the interior ministry in July.

That move was hastily withdrawn after a protest by Pakistan's powerful military establishment.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/09/30/57485.html