For Some US Soldiers, Ousting and Capturing Saddam Justifies the War

[rodbarnett]

TIKRIT, Iraq (AP) - For Staff Sgt. Isaac Day and many other American soldiers serving here, ridding Iraq of Saddam Hussein made the war worthwhile - regardless of whether anyone ever finds weapons of mass destruction.
"I'm glad we got Saddam," said Day, of Tarpon Springs, Fla. "When I grow old I can tell my grandchildren that we liberated this country."

That was a sentiment expressed in dozens of interviews with U.S. soldiers stationed near Tikrit, Saddam's hometown and a center of resistance to the U.S. occupation.

"Saddam lived in splendor while the rest of his people had to fend for themselves," Maj. Paul Lehto of Kingston, Mass. said over lunch here.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAQ6OBGCQD.html

[Beetwasher]

1. Saddam Lived in Splendor

while the rest of his people had to fend for themselves,"

Sound familiar? Just replace Saddam with Bush and you get the idea...

[frylock]

6. that's what i don't understand..

people talk about how Saddam had all these palaces, while his people starved, as if there isn't any disparity of classes over here. Who cares about the starving homeless stateside? :eyes:

[RFKHumphreyObama]

14. Just replace Saddam with Mugabe, King Fahd

Ferdinand Marcos, Mobotou Sesse Seko and a whole range of others around the globe and you get the idea. Unfortunately most of them either were or are US allies

[BigBigBear]

15. Not to mention

the Shah, Suharto, Somoza, Noriega.....all convenient pals of US business and military interests.

[ixion]

2. life imitating art

see, in those action movies, there is always a 'bad' guy and a 'good' guy, and it doesn't matter to what ends the 'good' guy must go to in order to defeat the 'bad' guy.

This is the same type of logic, essentially, that people use to justify a wide range of psychotic behaviors, vis a vis: "The video game made me do it."

*sigh*

[Dr Fate]

3. "some" soldiers= these two guys?

I guess it was okay for Bush to lie afterall. These two guys say it's fine.

[lovedems]

4. That's funny. My husband and I were talking last night and he said

he read an article in Newsweek maybe (?) in which the troops were mad. He said the article stated they were raiding houses in the middle of the night without an interpreter. In the article it stated the Muslim's believe if you do harm to them, it is their family honor to "pay you back with 5 of their bloodlines". So, when they raid these homes and duct tape people up, they retaliate with a car bomb for example. The Commander in the interview was stating that as long as they were doing these raids, troops would be in danger. He said these people were not Saddam loyalists, they were Iraqi's defending their home. He said they are getting shot at everyday because in every Iraqi home there is a gun and they just hope when they do these raids, they are catching them off guard so they don't have time to get their guns. He said it is a mess because they don't have an interpreter and when they do these raids everyone is just pointing in a desperate effort to understand each other. He made the point of saying how pissed off the soldiers were.

He also stated that he has had many under his command injured since bu$h's little Mission accomplished speech and has put them in for war time recomendations and they have all been denied because the "battle has officially ended". They are not happy about that either.

As far as the raids, he said they try hard not to rough people up to much but the troops are so angry that sometimes that is the only time they are able to unleash their frustrations.

The point of the story: As long as they continue the raids, the longer the Iraqi anger will continue. It is a vicious cycle and nobody in charge seems to be paying attention.

[gulfcoastliberal]

8. Just Wait until Something Sparks a Civil War...

Then will our guys be caught in the middle? Or will they just ride it out in the green zone and the various new bases they are constructing all over the place? What a huge, sad, insane messs * has wrought.

[leftchick]

24. I believe the civil war has already begun....

Low intensity at this point but it indeed has begun. That is why we should bring our soldiers home now!

[Voice_of_Europe]

29. you're seriously thinking that?

hmm... a little extreme your post here...

but I'd like to know with what argument you can back the "civil war" thing... could you actually imagine people picking up a gun and shooting other people who once were your neighbours for some political idea?

or was it just a provocative post...?

just got an uneasy feeling here...

[catzies]

31. I'm guessing the poster meant Iraqi Civil War, not American

My $.02

[aquart]

17. Total cultural insensitivity.

Because the goal is to Christianize them and make them just like Americans but more docile.

Yeah, that'll happen.

[joeunderdog]

36. Who can blame those poor bastards?

The guilt for the senseless killing would be overwelming if they addressed a lack of merit to their fighting.

It's not good to be a soldier right now.

[Warren Stuart]

5. I knew plenty of guys in the Army who thought Vietnam was

a joyride.

I knew plenty of guys who did everything they did to play up their experiences to try to make themselves look as heroic as possible. They were called PX heroes, they didn't earn their medals, they bought them.

These quotes in the article are from officers and senior NCO's, in other words lifers.

I'm have no doubt that they will thrill their grandchildren with their war stories, whether or not these stories are true, well...

[aquart]

20. You can always tell the real deal from the fake hero.

The real one never talks about it. Unless he's very, very, very drunk. And then these nightmare stories come...

[UpInArms]

7. ah, what a lovely comparison

and do all of the citizens of this United States live as well as our "appointed" leader?

Also, this reminded me of something:

Listen children to a story
That was written long ago
'Bout a kingdom, on a mountain
And the valley folk below
On the mountian was a treasure
Buried deep beneath a stone
And the valley people swore
They'd have it for their very own

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven
You can justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after who...
One tin soldier rides away

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill
Asking for the buried treasure
Tons of gold for which they'd kill
Came an answer from the kingdom
With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain
N' all the riches buried there

Now the valley cried in anger
Mount your horses
Draw your sword
And they killed the mountain people
So they won their just reward
Now they stood beside the treasure
On the mountain dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it
"Peace on Earth"
Was all it said

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven
You can justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after who...
One tin soldier rides away

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of Heaven
You can justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after who...
One tin soldier rides away

[ixion]

11. nice post, UIA

thanks for the lyrics. they always bring a tear to my eye. :-)

[Bozola]

9. Meanwhile back at home...

Bush looted the treasury, destroyed the Constitution, condemned the following US generations to massive debt, poor schools, overpopulation, and high levels of pollution all to "liberate" (we're still there attacking children with A-10 aircraft) a country from a "bad man"(an old friend of the current administration).

Boy howdy, do I ever get a warm and fuzzy feeling about liberating Iraq. The Bush administration is like Ted Bundy claiming that he was just trying to stop abortions.

[salin]

10. In truth

if I were risking my life... had lost friends to this war... was facing continued hostility and threat of attack by those I had "liberated" (from my perspective... sold to me by my superiors)... I just might come to view one of the few positive outcomes as being worth it. It is called rationalization.. and I understand it. Most of us have not personally served in combat and can only imagine the ongoing psychological trauma... I can imagine that holding on to beliefs that there is a legitimate reason to be going through all this is a pretty powerful self-innoculation from other - often debilitating states of mind such as despair, depression, etc.... while having to continue carrying out one's duties. Call me crazy, but I have a bit of empathy for these soldiers and how they might express these sentiments without being worthy of disparagement.

[hlthe2b]

12. Bingo, Salin

I can understand that perspective if it helps them deal with the wasted loss of their friends' lives and the horror of what has obviously been done to innocent Iraqis...

[RFKHumphreyObama]

16. It certainly wasn't my intention to disparage the soldiers

They are all exceedingly brave, courageous and dedicated servicemen and women and I have nothing but profound admiration and respect for them. They have experienced and undergone traumas and ordeals that most of us couldn't even contemplate and they don't deserve to be in the situation that they are in at the present time. They deserve to be at home- with their families and friends surrounding them-and I wish them all the best in luck and success. And they are entitled to their views -as we all are-and I respect their views. Unlike Bush & co, they have done their service to the nation and therefore have much more credibility when they talk of liberation and success

It's more that I have heard these same arguments from the RW time and time again -from chickenhawks such as Bush, Cheney and Hnanity-and I was just in automatic response mode. It was more in response to the members of the RW media that will capitalize on the above statements that I provided my two posts -and certainly not to our wonderful servicemen and women. They are the victims in all of this

[salin]

19. and when they say it - we should rip em for it

they continue to push policies that make the US and the world LESS safe using specious arguments ...

[aquart]

23. Yup.

If you knew your best friends had died for nothing, you might have an obligation to do something to make it right....something too terrible to contemplate.

[Sterling]

38. I agree but you have to admit.

What that guy said is the simpiltons version of what Iraq is all about. Sad.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

13. I have to be careful here....

<"I'm glad we got Saddam," said Day, of Tarpon Springs, Fla. "When I grow old I can tell my grandchildren that we liberated this country." >

I profoundly admire the courage and valor of all the servicemen and servicewomen in the armed forces. Having said that, I wonder whether, by the time that the generation that is now emerging have grandchildren, whether Saddam's series of replacements will be something to be proud of or something that will have profoundly negative implications for the Middle Eastern region. Just thinking of previous US-backed replacements in Chile and some other key nations around the globe doesn't inspire me with much confidence. Already the neo-cons want to install a convicted ex-con as Saddam's successor

Edited to once again reiterate that it's wonderful that Saddam has gone and it is something for the US armed forces to be proud of -but I just wonder about the long term implications

[leesa]

22. Sorry, It's BS. Those people are not liberated and the soldiers

should be angry that their CIC turned them into war criminals by launching an unprovoked invasion of a disarmed nation. Nothing to be proud of here. I know they are just pawns, but they should not be proud of this action.

[Karenina]

34. They're not angry that *Chimp-in-charge

is a deserter? :shrug:

Bush's AWOL Lies:
Famous Last Words!

Bob Fertik

February 5, 2004 (with subsequent updates)

http://democrats.com/display.cfm?id=326

It's sublime to watch Bush & Co. lie about something as simple as whether Bush went AWOL or not in 1972.

The facts are clear: with two full years of flying duty remaining, Bush "cleared this base" (Ellington AFB in Houston) on May 15, 1972. After that, he never reported for another drill. He disobeyed specific orders, was legally AWOL, and legally a deserter.

Of course he was never prosecuted, because his name is Bush. But that doesn't change the facts.

Bush could easily put this issue to rest by releasing his full military records, as Democrats.com and Senators Kerrey, Inouye, and Cleland called for in 2000. He could also find eyewitnesses who saw him performing his duty either in Alabama in 1972 or in Texas in 1973.

<snip>

Or that he's fucking them and their families over royally? :shrug:

This is how Bush supports our troops
By cutting benefits and health care for those putting their lives on the line in Iraq

by Kenneth Norris
Staff Writer
January 28, 2004

Do you support our troops? If so, prepare to be outraged that our commander in chief does not.

The Bush Administration's 2004 budget proposed gutting Veterans Administration (VA) services, including health care funding. Proposed cuts included: denying at least 360,000 veterans access to health care; $250 annual premiums; increased pharmacy co-payments; a 30 percent increased primary care co-payments; and increased waiting time for a first medical appointment.

Because of budgetary shortfalls, the VA suspended the enrollment of veterans not injured in service earning between $24,450 and $38,100 annually. VFW officials estimated the administration's VA budget is at least $2 billion short of meeting the demand for quality health care.

The FY 2004 budget approved by Congress calls for reducing VA funding over a 10-year period by $6.2 billion. Cuts are in the areas of veterans' health care and disability benefits.

http://www.usavanguard.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/01/28/401970abb42d7

And that he ordered them off to die for a LIE??? :shrug:

I don't buy it for a second. *Shrimp is officially TOAST.

[leesa]

18. Well, I believe his people were starving because the US, the only

country in the world to do so, refused to lift sanctions to allow for food and medicine. This is such a weak argument. What is he supposed to sell the gold plates to feed ten out of millions of people. Most leaders live in luxury and most of the stuff they are surrounded with is probably historical.

By the way, the people are starving now, more than ever. They had jobs under Saddam, now they have none while the US rapes their country for resources.

[Ripley]

21. Don't the soldiers resent being lied to?

I remember hearing that the training units before the invasion were named things like "World Trade Center Tower 1" and "Pentagon" etc. A blatant deliberate lie pysching the soldiers up to fight hard as a "revenge" for 9/11. Don't they care that the Iraqi people had nothing to do with 9/11?

How can they justify liberating people by killing them?

[Malva Zebrina]

25. Dozens of interviews?

and the soldiers are happy to have participated in the "liberation"? I don't know what to think or say. Perhaps the armed forces and their political bent/ideas is equal to the distribution here at home. Some are Republicans and some are Democrats and some are apathetic.

[NeoConsSuck]

26. Learn to recognize propaganda..

Would AP have run a story if these same soldiers said the war wasn't justified?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

27. Clearly, these 2 soldiers speak for all 2 MILLION soldiers....

in the armed forces.

(satire)

[iam]

28. When he gets old

the draft will put his children BACK in Iraq.

[m-jean03]

30. post deleted

[Sagan]

32. Did they interview any of the dead ones?

Or the wounded ones, even?

Let's ask them.

[monobrau]

33. "When I grow old"

Yes, just like our Vietnam vets can tell their grandkids how they liberated that country. I hope he lives to have grandchildren.

[saskatoon]

35. Soldiers sentiments!

That's what is so aggravating. Those poor kids don't seem to realize that was NOT why we went to War. They have been brain washed and indoctrinated and made to think that now the Iraqis are going to have a beautiful bang up DEMOCRACY when they are going to be continually fighting and killing each other. Any time a country is riven between different fundamental sects, it just aint gonna work!

[Snappy]

37. Question asked never answered.

I have asked this question a number of times and never get an answer.

If Iraq was "liberated" why are the troops still occupying the country and terrorising the people?