STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday September 18 **THREAD #2**

[ozymandius]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday September 18, 2008

COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 122
DAYS SINCE DEMOCRACY DIED (12/12/00) 2797 DAYS
WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2522 DAYS
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 2813
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 10
Enron execs conveniently deceased = 3
Other Arrests of Execs = 54

---

U.S. FUTURES &
MARKETS INDICATORS>
NASDAQ FUTURES-----------------------------S&P FUTURES

---

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON September 17, 2008

Dow... 10,609.66 -449.36 (-4.06%)
Nasdaq... 2,098.85 -109.05 (-4.94%)
S&P 500... 1,156.39 -57.21 (-4.71%)
Gold future... 850.50 +70.00 (+8.97%)
30-Year Bond 4.08% -0.01 (-0.34%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.41% -0.08 (-2.32%)






GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver

---

PIEHOLE ALERT

Heads Up!
Preliminary info on appearances by Bush & Co. throughout the country. Details & links are added as they become available so check back. And if you know more, are organizing something, or would like to, contact [e-mail]

For information on protests and other actions Citizens For Legitimate Government

---

Read more: du

[ozymandius]

1. Here's the link to the original thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3496680&mesg_id=3496680

[Hugin]

3. Looks like we may need to find a place to start a congratulatory Pool Win Thread.

Which forum?

I guess the winners can head there to receive their Kudos, Job Offers, Accolades, Rose Petal Showers,
72 Virgin Margaritas, What not.

Economy?

[ozymandius]

16. I could post it to the thread's mainpage.

It seems fitting to reside near the top where the numbers from 1/22/01 are listed. Thoughts?

[Hugin]

18. That would be a dandy idea!

And since it'll be you... It'll be handy, too. ;)

[ozymandius]

23. I could keep the numbers and names posted for the duration of the Bush administration.

The thread will need a big reworking after the squatter leaves to ruin another neighborhood. How's that sound?

[Hugin]

34. Sounds great.

There was talk of a second pool after this one resolves itself.

Guessing when (or if) the Dow will match it's lowest point during the Bush Admin. (October 9, 2002 7,286.27)

I don't think it will before they all pack off to the Aleutians. But, it would be a good pool. I've been surprised
before... (Although, not CONSTANTLY like most of the Corporate Financial Media.)

[roguevalley]

152. ozymandius, I am looking upon your works and weeping. :)

[ozymandius]

2. 1:21 numbers and blather

10,631.08 Up 21.42 (0.20%)
Nasdaq 2,101.68 Up 2.83 (0.13%)
S&P 500 1,156.31 Down 0.08 (0.01%)
10-Yr Bond 3.379% Down 0.031
NYSE Volume 5,188,616,500
Nasdaq Volume 1,855,000,500

1:00 pm : Losses continue to extend in the stock market. The major indices are now at a session low.

The downturn has taken stocks to a new 52-week low. The S&P 500 is now almost 28% off its high, which was posted almost 11 months ago.

Treasuries have fared well during that time. The 10-year Note, the benchmark for Treasuries, has seen its yield fall from around 4.65% to its current 3.38% since the time stocks hit their high. Yields move inversely to prices.DJ30 -119.68 NASDAQ -24.98 SP500 -19.58 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1260/1.66 bln/1526 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 989/935 mln/2160

12:35 pm : Stocks continue to trade with losses. The tone has soured noticeably since early on when all three of the major indices traded with gains of at least 2.0%.

The dollar is also trading lower this session, currently off 0.2% according to the dollar index. It is still up 1.6% year-to-date.

The greenback has found favor in recent weeks as international investors seek fertile investment ground amid concerns of a global slowdown. The short term outlook for the dollar remains a bit muddled, though. Foreign economies are hesitant to lower interest rates, while the Fed is cautious to hike them. The federal funds rate was recently left unchanged at 2.0%DJ30 -19.54 NASDAQ -9.58 SP500 -6.41 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1440/1.47 bln/1332 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 1252/820 mln/1890

[kirby]

4. UK Bans Temp Short Selling!

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Britain's Financial Services Authority on Thursday announced the unprecedented move of banning short-selling and forbidding any increase in new positions. Also, disclosure will be required on all positions of more than 0.25% of a stock. The ban is due to remain in force until Jan. 16, but it will be reviewed in 30 days. "While we still regard short-selling as a legitimate investment technique in normal market conditions, the current extreme circumstances have given rise to disorderly markets. As a result, we have taken this decisive action, after careful consideration, to protect the fundamental integrity and quality of markets and to guard against further instability in the financial sector," said Hector Sants, chief executive of the FSA.

[Ghost Dog]

22. Makes sense. n/t

... Naked or not.

[kirby]

54. Only if the free market does not apply when things are rough.

Only if the free market does not apply when things are rough. Short selling provides liquidity and a check against bulls.

[SahaleArm]

56. Can't wait to see what happens when liquidity dries up n/t

[54anickel]

53. Anyone remember Patrick Byrne and Overstock.com? He's been fighting

naked short selling since 2005.

http://www.deepcapture.com/

The Short Seller Myth of “Market Efficiency”
September 12th, 2008 by Mark Mitchell
In light of the news today that the SEC might not permanently apply its naked short selling “emergency order” to the entire market, and media reports that a study by Professor Arturo Bris is influencing this decision, we republish the following Deep Capture installment, which shows that Professor Bris quite blatantly fudged his numbers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“The SEC’s public data say that on any given day over the first three months of this year, there were more than one billion shares that had been sold and failed to deliver (within the allotted 3 days) and that 70% of those fails were concentrated in just 100 companies. That’s a real red flag for the SEC that naked short selling is very widespread, is highly concentrated, and consequently might be being used today to manipulate the price of scores of stocks.”

-Former Deputy Secretary of Commerce Robert Shapiro on CNBC

It’s great that CNBC allowed someone to report this news. It seems pretty interesting – criminals manufacturing piles of phantom stock in order to systematically manipulate the share prices of perhaps 100 companies. Come to think of it, it sounds like a really big financial scandal.

Strange that in the week since Secretary Shapiro’s CNBC debut, naked short selling has not been mentioned even once in any mainstream news publication. And last we heard from some publications, they were arguing that the SEC should allow hedge funds to continue selling stock that they have not borrowed or purchased.

Which was different from a few months ago, when hedge funds and journalists were telling us that there was no such thing as naked short selling. As of last week, the new line was that naked short-selling happens all the time, but cracking down on it would cause irreparable harm to “market efficiency.”

more....




http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/02/naked-short-suit-overstock-biz-cx_lm_0202naked.html?partner=yahootix

Naked Short Victim Strikes Back
Liz Moyer, 02.02.07, 6:35 PM ET

snip>

Overstock's lawsuit says the amount of stock that was improperly shorted has exceeded the company's entire supply of outstanding shares. "It's about rigging the system," says Overstock's attorney, James Christian.

Overstock's suit names Morgan Stanley (nyse: MS - news - people ), Goldman Sachs (nyse: GS - news - people ), Bear Stearns (nyse: BSC - news - people ), Bank of America (nyse: BAC - news - people ), Bank of New York (nyse: BK - news - people ), Citigroup (nyse: C - news - people ), Credit Suisse (nyse: CS - news - people ), Deutsche Bank (nyse: DB - news - people ), Merrill Lynch (nyse: MER - news - people ), and UBS (nyse: UBS - news - people ) as defendants. None of the defendants had any immediate comment on the suit.

Byrne's self-described crusade against trading abuses over the last two years has brought a heap of criticism down on him, but regulators have acknowledged that there are loopholes that make the system ripe for abuse.

Going after the so-called prime brokers, the securities firms that provide stock lending and financing services to hedge funds, is another way to tackle the problem of naked short-selling, a manipulative trading tactic that can drive down share prices artificially and threaten the viability of small publicly traded companies.

Prime brokerage is one of the hottest businesses on Wall Street but little understood outside the world of finance. It essentially is the business of catering to hedge funds, acting as their trading counterparties, financing those trades, and loaning stock and other securities for funds to execute short-selling strategies.

[kirby]

55. The UK Ban is All shorts, not just naked.

[54anickel]

66. Yeah, I saw that and the US has fought against regulating any kind of short selling, now just

taking "baby steps". These are the same folks that blew Byrnes off.

SEC cracks down on short selling
The panel's chairman proposes that big investors publicly report such bets on a daily basis.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-fi-sec18-2008sep18,0,3582808.story

WASHINGTON -- After another day of plummeting stock prices, the Securities and Exchange Commission late Wednesday announced a new effort that could curb "short selling" -- bets on lower prices.

In a surprise, SEC Chairman Christopher Cox proposed that big investors, including hedge funds, begin publicly reporting their short positions daily.


The SEC may be hoping that some investors will be discouraged from shorting stocks if they have to let the world know what they're doing.

Cox also announced that the SEC would be subpoenaing hedge funds and other traders as part of "enforcement measures against market manipulation." He said the SEC would be looking at "past trading positions in specific securities" -- which could be a reference to financial-company stocks, many of which have collapsed this year amid heavy short selling.

more...

[Hugin]

130. Yet, McWhatzizface wants Cox fired?

Looks like he's doing his job to me.

[54anickel]

139. McLame has got to make it look like 1) he cares 2) he's not in on that whole

deregulation, free markets mentality that Obama so properly associated him with the other day. He's got to make it look like he has a plan, knows what to do and what should be done. Obama is on message and McLame is trying pitifully to "measure up" but he's used to being behind the scenes in this shit.

Can hear him giggle in the same tone Tina Fey so perfectly used for Palin on the Bush Doctrine "Economics - "I don't know what that is".

McLame sounds like some redneck hollerin' "fire the bum" with absolutely no plan to get us out of this mess while Obama rationally states, "here's where we are....this is what we need to do...we'll take a look at who's at fault and what to do about that later."

McLame can't compete, he's irrational and complacent, his base is made up of irrational freepers and complacent accomplices to the crime. He can't reach the middle and uncommited voters and his base are exact opposites of each other on the Wall Street implosion - play to one and loose the other.

[Hugin]

140. Good explaination 54anickel.

So, McDone is pushing rope. Yet, still gets coverage.

[54anickel]

145. "McDone" - good one! Yep, he's thinking that any press is good press, just gotta stay out there and

say ANYTHING to stay in the game. That'll work to some degree with the spinmiesters (Hannity, Rush, etc) backing him but the general media, that the people he needs to reach tend to watch, is not in his pocket.

Don't want to get over confident, but as long as Obama can stay on message instead of being forced to play defense and fact checking....well, I'm thinking it's fork sticking time!

[muriel_volestrangler]

148. To be clear, the UK ban is on short selling *of financial stocks*

The Board of the Financial Services Authority (FSA) today (Thursday 18 September) agreed to introduce new provisions to the Code of Market Conduct to prohibit the active creation or increase of net short positions in publicly quoted financial companies from midnight tonight.

In addition, the FSA will require from Tuesday 23 September daily disclosure of all net short positions in excess of 0.25 per cent of the ordinary share capital of the relevant companies held at market close on the previous working day. Disclosure of such positions held at close on Friday 19 September will also be required on Tuesday 23 September.
...
Hector Sants, chief executive of the FSA, said:

"While we still regard short-selling as a legitimate investment technique in normal market conditions, the current extreme circumstances have given rise to disorderly markets. As a result, we have taken this decisive action, after careful consideration, to protect the fundamental integrity and quality of markets and to guard against further instability in the financial sector."

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2008/102.shtml

'Financial companies' being banking and insurance, they said on the TV.

[MrsCorleone]

118. We also need to watch how this changes the election conversation,

especially if this short covering rally turns into an even bigger bear market rally, leading J6P to focus on more trivial things.

This ban changes nothing on Main St., as the real economy will continue downward & real people will continue to struggle. Basically, I'm afraid that we (& the media) will turn away from talking about serious issues, returning to stupid election bs topics such as lipstick, pigs, celebrities, arugala, etc.

Also, the ban expiration date of Jan 16 worries me, as it is so close to inauguration day. Not sure if I should get paranoid yet, but I think it is something to keep in mind.

[Demeter]

150. Evidently the US Just Did, Too

It was posted on LBN

[mainegreen]

5. I'd go hide under a rock, but I'm not sure I can afford the rock anymore.

x(

[harun]

6. At this rate McCain's even going to lose the top 1 percenters (n/t)

[anarch]

7. yeah, because they'll flee the country

[Hugin]

14. That must be why they sent out all of those Absentee Ballots.

A check of the postmarks will show most of them originated in the Islands.

[Mojorabbit]

70. You would think so

but my BIL and I had a discussion today and being brainwashed by Fox news he is a hopeless case. I found it depressing.

[harun]

108. You notice I said top 1 percenters, those are the wealthiest people

I purposely didn't say the uneducated sheeple watching Fox News. We will never get those people.

The uber wealthy know a dud when they see one, the sheeple don't.

[bain_sidhe]

8. Don't forget to recommend, folks

to get this thread on the greatest page.

[Roland99]

9. WTF?? DJIA +110. 200pt positive swing in last 45 min.

:wtf:

[spinbaby]

10. I can't figure it out

For a moment I thought they had an emergency interest-rate cut. :shrug:

Maybe it was just a rumor of a rate cut.

[Ghost Dog]

32. Certainly wasn't because of this: IMF urges market-friendly solutions amid crisis

Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:03pm EDT

WASHINGTON, Sept 18 (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund on Thursday urged financial authorities around the globe to pursue market-friendly solutions to bolster investor sentiment shaken by a crisis among Wall Street firms.

IMF spokesman, David Hawley, did not elaborate on what those solutions should be, as central banks pumped funds into the world financial markets for a second day but the move failed to instill investor confidence.

"In general, we encourage the authorities to seek market-friendly solutions that would encourage a turnaround in investor sentiment," he told a regular briefing for reporters.

He said so far emerging markets had weathered the spreading credit turmoil but urged countries to stay alert, especially when it comes to monitoring inflation pressures.

"Financial conditions in emerging markets have tightened and there is certainly potential for renewed deleveraging in financial markets that would affect emerging markets," Hawley said.

"Most countries would be well placed to handle such stresses but policymakers must continue to act cautiously while balancing the need to ensure they do not fall behind the curve on inflation," he added.

In Russia, he said, where bourses ceased trading as markets went into a tailspin this week, there were buffers to deal with the crisis and the overall economy was in good shape. Continued...

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1839069920080918?rpc=44

[hatrack]

15. Must have been elation about Putnam closing its institutional MM fund

:shrug:

[ozymandius]

20. I used to be invested in two Putnam funds.

Their performance was -ahem- lacking. It could have been a thing of beauty if not for the warts, lice, bruises, open sores and the smell. The funds bled money.

[DemReadingDU]

25. Spouse had IRA at Putnam in a stable value fund

It was ok, but I was getting leery of any mutual fund. I convinced him in June to get out of Putnam, and chose an IRA/CD at the credit union, insured by the NCUA

[TalkingDog]

11. Are these people smoking crack????

The numbers have been all over the place. I keep checking in to see if the SMW's PIN has been breached and it's Yes...umm...No...Ummm..wait.ye...wait, no, no definitely not....and then up 121 points????

schizoid market

or maybe the brillo pads they've been using to hold their rocks in place while they burn is finally eating their last brain cells....

[spinbaby]

12. Another $180 Billion

They dumped more cash on the problem. That's what made the market turn around.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4029449

[nolabels]

19. Let's throw another log on the fire, shall we?

More phony to cover the other phony, who could of guessed :crazy:

[Hugin]

21. They never tire of spending other people's money.

It's like shooting off other people's fireworks and they won't stop until 1) They run out. 2) Someone takes
the keys.

[Joe Chi Minh]

57. Why not throw another goldfish to the cat?

[DemReadingDU]

27. That's $360 billion, today?

are they crazy?

:crazy:

[anarch]

48. yes. yes they are.

:(

[ozymandius]

72. Jeebus! Stay this madness!

The averages at 3:14 are freakin' mad.

Dow 10,994.94 Up 385.28 (3.63%)
Nasdaq 2,153.95 Up 55.10 (2.63%)
S&P 500 1,197.90 Up 41.51 (3.59%)
NYSE Volume 8,058,815,000
Nasdaq Volume 2,907,324,000

[Ghost Dog]

85. They got the Pavlovian M$M on the job?

:shrug:

11,000 PIL in sight.

[Ghost Dog]

99. Yup, there it is: Coordinated with the McInsane campaign too, by the looks of it:

...A series of news reports about various forms of government intervention in Wall Street's latest crisis bolstered investors' mood. The cable network CNBC reported that Washington is considering formation of a body to accept soured credit bets, something akin to the Resolution Trust Corp., which was a key tool to liquidating holdings of failed savings and loans in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Also, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said he has started a "wide-ranging investigation" into short selling, or bearish bets, in the financial sector. The UK Financial Services Authority imposed a temporary ban on short-selling financial stocks Thursday. And The California Public Employees' Retirement System, the nation's largest pension fund, said that starting Thursday it is no longer lending out shares of Goldman Sachs Group and Morgan Stanley, joining a growing list of public funds that are trying to limit short-selling of those two stocks.

/... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122173471692152059.html

[Renew Deal]

28. Where did they get that money?

They are literally printing money. The dollar is going to be worthless soon.

[ozymandius]

30. There's your answer.

The printing press has a counter on the side the runs in reverse. It's now negative several trillion dollars.

[muleboy303]

65. successive 100pt candlesticks and 'naked'ness makes me think

the Illinois Enema Bandit is on the loose today in New York

"he just be pumpin' every one of them up with a bag full..."

[kineneb]

33. get'cher wheelbarrows out, folks!

Looks like we may need them soon, just to get a loaf of bread.

[Renew Deal]

38. It's like the good old days.

[Ghost Dog]

13. Repeat from thread #1: Ok. Was a flop. Europe stocks fall despite liquidity boost

Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:02pm EDT

PARIS, Sept 18 (Reuters) - European stocks ended lower on Thursday after a rollercoaster session, as a coordinated move by the world's leading central banks to ease the credit squeeze failed to halt the equities selloff that started on Monday.

The FTSEurofirst 300 index of top European shares closed 0.6 percent lower at 1,063.62 points, falling for the fourth straight session and ending at its lowest closing level since April 2005.

The index has lost around 9 percent so far this week, and is on track for its biggest weekly drop since the attacks of Sept 11, 2001. The declines follow Lehman Brothers' (LEH.P: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) collapse, the takeover of Merrill Lynch (MER.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and the bailout of insurer AIG (AIG.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz).

"There are a lot of pending issues in the financial sector, and probably a lot of bad surprises in the pipeline," said Jean-Claude Petit, head of equities at Barclays Wealth Managers France. "This crisis constitutes a turning point in the business model of banks and the way Wall Street works. Consolidation among banks is inevitable. But these are "arranged marriages" under the pressure of the U.S. authorities."

The world's top central banks joined forces on Thursday to throw a multi-billion dollar lifeline to global markets in a dramatic effort to free up bank-to-bank lending, frozen by the turmoil on Wall Street. In an unprecedented move, the U.S. Federal Reserve made an extra $180 billion available to major central banks to lend on to their local commercial banks in a bid to get dollars circulating in overnight and term money markets.

European banking stocks, which had had a tentative recovery earlier in the session, ended the day mixed.

UK lender HBOS Plc (HBOS.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) jumped 17 percent after Lloyds TSB (LLOY.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) said it would take over the embattled UK lender in a $22 billion deal helped through by the government. Lloyds sank 15 percent. Barclays (BARC.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) was down 5.3 percent, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) down 4.5 percent, while BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) rose 3 percent and Credit Suisse (CSGN.VX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) gained 2.8 percent.

"Recent events should not come as a surprise to those who, like us, see the U.S. economy sliding into deep recession as a result of long years of grotesque debt excess," Albert Edwards, strategist at Societe Generale, wrote in a note. "Amid recent chaos, few realise that the next phase of de-leveraging has only just started."

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCALI1292920080918?rpc=44&sp=true

_______

So now the knives are really out. Hmmm. Well, since Prag has locked himself in the pool, I think I'll head for the Swiss Alps myself with Claudine and Claudette, on the excuse it's time to make sure the vaunted vaults are still safe.

[Roland99]

17. Putnam money market fund liquidated. BNY Mellon cash fund under $1/share

snowball's gaining mass.

[antigop]

24. WSJ:Calpers will no longer lend out shares of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, joining a growing li

No link-- just a banner on WSJ website:
http://online.wsj.com/public/us

See Breaking News:

Calpers will no longer lend out shares of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, joining a growing list of public funds that are trying to limit short-selling of these two stocks.

[SahaleArm]

29. What a joke - Leverage not short selling is what's causing IB's to fail

You can't leverage 30x your liquidity and not expect to fail.

[antigop]

31. OK, antigop's rant of the day

Sometime ago I asked about the practice of securities lending.

Now it looks like CALPERS is refusing to lend out shares of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.

MY RANT:
CALPERS has invested in shares of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley because they expect the shares to increase and will contribute toward the funding of the pension plan. If they lend securities to short-sellers, they are aiding and abetting the VERY PRACTICE that is opposed to their investment strategy -- short sales that hope the price of the stock goes down.

WHY IN THE HELL ARE PENSION FUNDS (including 401(k)'s) ALLOWED TO AID AND ABET SHORT SELLERS?

Pension funds are supposed to be run for the benefit of the pension plan participants.

<end rant>

Well, I'm sure CALPERS gets fees for lending, but still....

[Hugin]

36. I concur.

The whole system has been encouraging speculation at the expense of long-term investment.

Part of the larger problem.

[SahaleArm]

40. Equities go up *and down* - you don't buy equities for wealth preservation

You buy bonds, preferably from the Treasury.

[antigop]

43. *YOU* don't buy the equities and lend them -- the pension plans do

That includes 401(k)'s -- and pension plans are supposed to be run for the SOLE benefit of the plan participants, not short sellers.

[DemReadingDU]

50. exactly

Another way to steal our pensions so we be poor, and they be rich

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Hugin]

44. Equities were originally intended as a long-term investment in an enterprise.

Not as financial vehicles in their own right.

The pay-off was via dividends.

This yo-yo crap is a modern invention and is a large part of the problem.

[Robbien]

94. Pension funds reasoning is

They are holding the stock for the long term. Why not make a little extra money in the short term by loaning out the stock, they ask themselves. So what if the price is artificially deflated by short selling, in the long term the price will level back out to its real value so they haven't lost a thing, and they made a pretty penny on fees in the short term.

That was a valid argument before removal of the uptick rule. Without that hedges are free to maliciously target stocks and pension funds should have quickly cut off hedge access to their stock.

[antigop]

45. Story is now available, but you need subscription

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122175993684453081.html

[ozymandius]

49. Xanax, Zoloft, Prozac, Effexor, Paxil

Come tomorrow's Quadruple Witching the WSJ will offer stories for the prescription only readers.

[Hugin]

58. Haha! I thought you were reading off the banner ads appearing on the page.

:rofl:

[ozymandius]

26. 2pm numbers

Dow 10,738.96 Up 129.30 (1.22%)
Nasdaq 2,114.15 Up 15.30 (0.73%)
S&P 500 1,170.09 Up 13.70 (1.18%)
10-Yr Bond 3.426% Up 0.016
NYSE Volume 6,159,633,000
Nasdaq Volume 2,190,352,250

Volume has taken a swift rise.

[ozymandius]

35. Jeebus. Falling again after five minutes.

2:04
Dow 10,700.69 Up 91.03 (0.86%)
Nasdaq 2,108.38 Up 9.53 (0.45%)
S&P 500 1,165.89 Up 9.50 (0.82%)
10-Yr Bond 3.417% Up 0.007
NYSE Volume 6,280,576,000
Nasdaq Volume 2,223,789,000

[ozymandius]

37. -100 points off the Dow in 8 minutes

Dow 10,638.16 Up 28.50 (0.27%)
Nasdaq 2,099.44 Up 0.59 (0.03%)
S&P 500 1,158.15 Up 1.76 (0.15%)

[ozymandius]

41. schizophrenic blather

2:00 pm : Financials recently found their best level of the session, helping the broader market pull out of the red. The sector has climbed all the way to a 4.5% gain.

Still lagging, though, are investment banks and brokers. The industry group is down 4.6%. That is still quite an improvement from the 20% loss the group was showing at its session low.

Particular to the group, the giant California pension fund CALPERS is no longer lending out shares of Goldman Sachs (GS 106.45, -8.05) and Morgan Stanley (MS 17.25, -4.50), according to The Wall Street Journal. DJ30 +116.51 NASDAQ +14.22 SP500 +12.36 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1648/2.19 bln/1180 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 1564/1.24 bln/1604

1:30 pm : After falling to a session low, stocks spiked upward to make their way back to the neutral line. The advance was led by the financial sector, which swung from a 6.2% loss to a 0.3% gain.

Financials were helped by word that the Financial Services Authority, the United Kingdom's independent financial regulator, has issued a temporary ban on short selling financial companies. Dow Jones reported the FSA will not allow the creation or increase of net short positions in publicly quoted financial companies from the 2300 GMT. The provisions will last until January 16.DJ30 +4.73 NASDAQ +0.02 SP500 -1.51 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1513/1.93 bln/1296 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 1229/1.09 bln/1920

[Hugin]

42. They really want you to win.

8/

[ozymandius]

46. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

:rofl:

I'm sure Bernanke hoists a poster with my stick person likeness. Chanting, "Oz-EE! Oz-EE! Oz-EE!"



If that were the case, I would not know whether to be flattered or horrified.

[antigop]

39. Reuters (today): In hard times, tent cities rise across the country

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/tent_cities

A few tents cropped up hard by the railroad tracks, pitched by men left with nowhere to go once the emergency winter shelter closed for the summer.

Then others appeared — people who had lost their jobs to the ailing economy, or newcomers who had moved to Reno for work and discovered no one was hiring.

Within weeks, more than 150 people were living in tents big and small, barely a foot apart in a patch of dirt slated to be a parking lot for a campus of shelters Reno is building for its homeless population. Like many other cities, Reno has found itself with a "tent city" — an encampment of people who had nowhere else to go.

From Seattle to Athens, Ga., homeless advocacy groups and city agencies are reporting the most visible rise in homeless encampments in a generation.

[TalkingDog]

51. Bushton... Bushville.... Shrubton... Shrubville.... Shruburbia....

If there was justice, he and pickles would be forced to live in one.....without benefit of spirits.

[Hugin]

60. Shrubtropolis... Shrubotel... Shrubacres... Shrubview.. Shrubocile.. Valle Shrub.. Shrub Gardens...

I wonder how long we could keep this up. :lol: Great!

[radfringe]

61. Dubya Downs, Dubyaboro...... n/t

[Hugin]

67. Glendubya... Shrub-upon-tyne.. Mount Shrubenjaro... Las Dubyas... Nob Shrub... n/t

[adamuu]

76. Georgetown, Dubya Falls, The Township of Never Forget

[TalkingDog]

78. Dubya Falls...that's got a ring to it. Bushburgh (for a really big tent city)

[antigop]

62. Today's song: We'd like to thank you, Herbert Hoover

From the Broadway musical "Annie":

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/annie/wedliketothankyou.htm



Today we're living in a shanty
Today we're scrounging for a meal


Today I'm stealing coal for fires
Who knew i could steal?


I used to winter in the tropics


I spent my summers at the shore


I used to throw away the paper--


We'd like to thank you: Herber Hoover
For really showing us the way
We'd like to thank you: Herbert Hoover
You made us what we are today

Prosperity was 'round the corner
The cozy cottage built for two
In this blue heaven
That you
Gave us
Yes!

We're turning blue!
They offered us Al Smith and Hoover
We paid attention and we chose
Not only did we pay attention
We paid through the nose.

In ev'ry pt he said "a chicken"
But Herbert Hoover he forgot
Not only don't we have the chicken
We ain't got the pot!
Hey Herbie


You left behind a greatful nation


So, Herb, our hats are off to you
We're up to here with admiration


Come down and have a little stew


Come down and share some Christmas dinner
Be sure to bring the missus too
We got no turkey for our stuffing
We'd like to thank you, Herbert Hoover
For really showing us the way
You dirty rat, you Bureaucrat, you
Made us what we are today
Come and get it, Herb!

[antigop]

63. Youtube version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zTg1iUWm4U

[Hugin]

69. Fantastic selection, antigop.

Music for my mood.

[Dr.Phool]

80. Reaganville, Friedmanville,

Phase 2 under construction- Magooville and Bullwinkle City.

[TalkingDog]

100. Rand City, Randville, Randopolis, Shruggerton, Shrug City, Greenspan Heights n/t

[eowyn_of_rohan]

59. Hello Grapes of Wrath

[RedEarth]

47. The worst is yet to come .. 'No market for old men,' TCW investment strategist warns in gloomy forec

The worst is yet to come
'No market for old men,' TCW investment strategist warns in gloomy forecast

By Jonathan Burton, MarketWatch

Last update: 9:34 p.m. EDT Sept. 17, 2008SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- An influential investment strategist has a dire forecast for U.S. stocks, credit markets and the continued independence of some of the nation's top financial institutions.

Jeffrey Gundlach, chief investment officer at Los Angeles-based mutual-fund company TCW Group Inc., told clients on a conference call late Wednesday that the crisis in credit and housing may not abate for several years and is actually getting worse.

Gundlach based his assessment on a belief that housing prices still face several more years of decline, a protracted slump, he said, not seen since the Great Depression. Moreover, Gundlach said it's possible that home prices could be sluggish until 2022.

"If it's like the Depression experience -- and it sure is shaping up that way -- it could take several years. Maybe we won't see a bottom in home prices until 2014," he said.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/worst-yet-come-investment-strategist/story.aspx?guid=55B21789-3A26-495A-B0D3-5AF3F6ABDA18&dist=SecMostRead&print=true&dist=printMidSection

[antigop]

52. Putnam institutional MM fund had no exposure to WaMu, Lehman, or AIG

http://financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080918/REG/809189991/1036

Putnam Investments is shuttering its institutional Prime Money Market Fund, after investors withdrew a substantial amount of assets from the fund yesterday.

In a statement, Putnam officials confirmed that although the fund had no exposure to the securities of Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual or AIG, the fund “experienced significant redemption pressure,” and liquidity constraints would force the fund to realize losses in selling off the fund's securities. As a result, Putnam has elected to close the fund and return all of its assets to clients.

[fascisthunter]

64. EVERYTHING is FINE... DOW +110.49

for now

[TalkingDog]

77. O. M. G. up 320? Wow. Oh, crap....pool is back open!!!!

Ummm...o, jeeze, choking here......September 24 (Sibling's BD)

[Hugin]

101. d************ The Pool Is Being Open ****************

:crazy:

Tough luck: Ghost Dog, uppityperson, and Finnfan. Never underestimate how low these slicktards will go to keep the game
going ONE MORE DAY!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Guess the date the DJIA rolls back to the level it was when the chimp took office-10,578.24. You can revise your dates until the DJIA hits(IMPORTANT CHANGE) 10700 (got to have a cut off). Anyone can join, just give a date and your reasoning for that date. Note the change on the cut off. That should make for a good horse race. I will check the post date/time for last minute posters but those that guessed the date way in advance get extra points. The earlier posters are at the top in the cases of multiple guesses on the same day.

Ghost Dog ....9/18 (You may just get it GD!)
uppityperson... 9/18 (Note: Because it's a special day.)
Finnfan.... 9/18 (Note: "What are you going to do to get us out of this mess, Indy?" "I'm workin' on it! I'm workin' on it!")


(Roland99 pointed out that 9/19 is also: National Talk Like a Pirate Day! Avast!)
Ozy.....9/19 (Note: Ozy picked this date a couple of months ago.)
AnneD..... 9/19 (Like the quadruple witching thang.)
readmoreoften... 9/19
Karenina.... 9/19

Demeter.....9/22
Buttercup McToots ... 9/22 (Note: Said Please.)
ozone_man.....9/23
Talking Dog... 9/24 (Note: B-day in the family.)
dweller.... 9/25
JuneBourder.....9/29
radfringe.... 10/09/08 (Countdown!)
Birthmark....10/10
Mojorabbit.... 10/11
Tansy_Gold.....10/13
DemReadingDU.....10/16
Roland99.....10/17
AnneD....10/24
Neshanic.....10/24
dweller....10/25 (Note: Standby Date)
UpInArms.....10/30
MsLeopard.....10/31
Wordpix.....11/3
Passingfair.....11/4
Ship wrack.....11/5
Wednesdays.....1/16/2009

Remember-you can change the dates as we learn more. If your date isn't on the list, e-mail me and I'll add it the next time I post. I erased expired dates so you can guess again. I post about one a week-more often the closer we get to the number. The winner get the praise and admiration of those on the Stock Watch Thread. We have also kicked in for a years worth of bragging rights and Karl Rove as you own pool boy if we can find Speedos to fit. There is still time to place your bets.....And please-no Reggie bars in the pool.

IMPORTANT ADDENDUM: I believe, as an investor, one day does not a trend make. So as activity coordinator of the pool, additional guesses are allowed should it dip down but pop up above the cut off. Call it the Indian Summer Clause. I personally think that 11000 is their PIN, but the fact that it cannot be pumped up any further anymore points to weakness in the system-for my $0.02.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Lone_Star_Dem]

68. Fed Reserve almost quadrupled the amount of dollars central banks can auction to $247 Billion

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve almost quadrupled the amount of dollars central banks can auction around the world to $247 billion in a coordinated bid to ease the worst crisis facing financial markets since the aftermath of the 1929 Wall Street crash.

The Fed increased the amount of dollars that the European Central Bank, the Bank of Japan and other counterparts can offer from $67 billion ``to address the continued elevated pressures in U.S. dollar short-term funding markets.'' The Bank of England, the Bank of Canada and the Swiss National Bank also participated. Several of them lent funds in their own currencies as well with the Fed adding a record $105 billion in temporary reserves.

Policy makers have struggled to revive confidence in markets this week as investors stockpiled money on concern more financial institutions would fail after the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and the U.S. government bailout of American International Group Inc. The cost to hedge against losses on U.S. government debt climbed to a record yesterday.

``There's a complete lack of faith in the markets,'' said Jim O'Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in London. ``There's a lot of cash hoarding and people losing trust in banks, so the central banks are acting to relieve that. This might not be the last time they have to act.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=asIS6b3aIbDo&refer=economies

[Newsjock]

71. Now up 340 after another RTC is threatened

Kiss the rest of your savings goodbye:

http://finance.yahoo.com/marketupdate/overview?u

The stock market surges near session highs as a CNBC reporter reports the government may be planning to to solve the current financial termoil using the a method similar to the 1980s savings and loan crisis.

CNBC's Gasparino reports his Wall Street sources say that Treasury Secretary Paulson is talking about a Resolution Trust Corporation-type solution to the current crisis. The RTC was created during the savings and loan crisis of the 80s.

[Hugin]

75. This really does not compute.

How exactly is creating another Privatized entity going to solve a crisis caused by Privatizing Entities?


Oh! I get it... Socialize the losses and privatize the profits. Duh! :smacksforehead:

Okay, I agree with you... This follows Prag's Law in that it's horrendous news for the Middle-class. So,
expect the Market to zoom up. Even though it DOES NOTHING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM! IDIOTS!

"Deeheeyuck... Uh, teehee, this square peg went in a round hole last time... So, let's force it in again. Heeyuck!"

[fedsron2us]

87. Rather like one of those dubious debt consolidation outfits

Gather all those nasty debts into one manageable lump sum and then dump it on the taxpayer. Of course re-labeling a steaming pile of dung as a centralized waste management facility does not stop it stinking. It also raises the slight problem that the US tax base is not big enough to fill this hole and it looks from the recent spike in the price of gold that foreign investors will soon be quitting the dollar for good. I really do not know why they simple don't give a million dollars free money to every US citizen to blow as they please. It would be fairer and would probably do less long term economic harm

[CatholicEdHead]

81. I saw that and could not believe it

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

What will the end of today bring much less tomorrow?

[Renew Deal]

82. Stocks surge on report of entity for bad debt

Wall Street soars on report that federal govenment will create entity to hold banks' debt

NEW YORK (AP) -- Stocks are surging with the Dow Jones industrials up more than 300 points following a report that the federal government is considering creation of a repository for banks' bad debt.
CNBC said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is considering creation of an entity like the Resolution Trust Corp. that was formed after the failure of savings and loan banks in the 1980s.

The Dow, which had been showing modest moves in the final hour of trading, jumped nearly 330 points to the 10,939 level following the report.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080918/wall_street.html

[CatholicEdHead]

84. That is quite a bit of debt for one "Corporation" to take on

I have lost count on the numbers this week. How many Trillions will this be?

[nolabels]

110. What we are witnessing here is a room full of horse shit

They were telling everybody to get out of and away from things with bad debt. They then changed the rules and decided that everybody with charge of bundled debts would be covered (silly rabbit, tricks are for kids :-) )


On edit, your didn't want to know what i really thought :argh:

[Roland99]

103. socialize the losses

[54anickel]

89. Oh cool, I can get my old Resolution Trust Board game out!!!

[Timefortruth]

73. Visit to coin shop today

to buy a Canadian Maple leaf, but they were sold out. They were also sold out of American Gold Eagles, and one ounce bars. All they had left were Krugerrands.

If supply is outstripping demand, doesn't that mean the price is too low?

[Dr.Phool]

91. I called every coin shop in my area 2 days ago.

No coins, and one dealer said he has a hard time getting any physical gold.

However, I did get some Krugerrands online at www.kitco.com.

They send them insured to your door.

[xyouth]

136. I have been trying since last friday to jump into gold.

Could not find any except for a couple of coins in the Phila area.
I invested in the Perth Mint Certificate Program. My purchase goes through tonight about 8pm, Australia opening 8 am.
I didn't know what else to do. I feel like I am jumping from a burning building into a net, and hoping the net does not rip.:scared:

[Demeter]

137. If I Had A Passport, I Could Go to Canada-1 Hour Away

and buy Maple Leaf coins and smuggle them....It will have to pay better than $10/hour, and gas is extra at cost plus the price of passport....

Who said there isn't a silver lining to every cloud?

Perhaps you could buy them on line and have them mailed to you. That used to be possible.

[Dr.Phool]

157. Still is

www.kitco.com

Krugerrands, Eagles, Maple Leafs, etc. Very small premium + shipping and insurance. Click on their bullion store-most popular items.

When you place the order, you lock in at the spot price at that minute. They provide the 24 hour gold chart on our SMW thread.

[adamuu]

74. suggestion: add more elements to "COUNTING THE DAYS"

Such as
Days since FF was nationalized
Days since the fed purchased an 80% stake in a corporate insurance company
Days since Merrill Lynch went poof
etc.

if you put the events one on top of the other, it shows the cascade effect of Bush.

[specimenfred1984]

79. Just the normal 300 point upswing in a few minutes time

There's no manipulation going on here, nothing to see, move along. Don't forget to ask all kinds of dumb questions before moving along like "Is my bank safe"? LOL.

[TheWatcher]

86. It's all about MANAGING the PERCEPTION of the EVENTS, my friend.

I swear, I am really beginning to wonder if they can truly keep managing price levels while the rest of society collapses.

This has reached levels of foolishness that should be sparking a revolution, but there are many out there that think this artificial management of reality is a GOOD THING.

It is NOT.

It is merely going to make the end result WORSE.

With all of this foolish "management" going on, we may actually continue to see a relatively high average in The Dow, while the rest of us live out an Argentina like experience.

Main Street needs to get a clue that this WILL NOT SAVE THEM.

[Ghost Dog]

124. Foolisg management and a bunch of kneejerkers reacting to it

unthinkingly.

[54anickel]

95. Do you think the quadruple witching tomorrow along with quick short covering (seeing the rules are

changing midstream) might be coming into play today? :shrug:

[Demeter]

138. Building Up the Carbs for Tomorrow's Weight Loss Program

[TheWatcher]

83. YAY! They're Going to Save Themselves, um, I mean The Economy with another rumor of a tired old

scheme dug up form the Mausoleum Of Financial Wisdom from 1980!

Cross Posting this from another thread, but WTF?

Every single time we reach a critical mass point, Stammerin' Hank or one of the other Men Who Would Be Gods trots out some new Spin, Scheme, Rumor, or other Magical Tool to get the Hot Money Flowing.

How much longer are people going to keep falling for this?

They create the Crisis, and then try to ride in with a "Solution" as your "Saviors."

Main Street needs to stop Listening to Wall Street and consider LYNCHING them instead.

Wall Street is going to SAVE THEMSELVES.

And Main Street is going to PAY THE BILL.

And I am sure that DU's usual Castigation Squad and Hyperbole Police will be out in FULL FORCE tonight, telling us how another Magical Happy Print "Sedate The Sheep Session" has ONCE AGIAN, Saved Us All.

NOTHING. HAS. CHANGED.

And this latest bullshit rumor, even if it becomes a reality, will not change anything either.

You mean to tell me THIS is their "Big Solution" to "Save The System"? The RTS scheme from 1980?

You. CANNOT. BE. SERIOUS.

The system needs to be REBUILT and REFORMED.

Not Re-Cycled for more of the same.

[Hugin]

105. Eeeew... Isn't it kind of unsanitary to put a used bandage on a fresh wound?

Ick!

This whole thing is about breaking the back of the Social Safety Net.

They're going to keep heaping the debt on the Government until something breaks. I really can't understand why
they hate it so.

[TalkingDog]

88. Ex-SEC Official Blames Agency for Blow-Up of Broker-Dealers (Repeat?)

Didn't see this in either thread:
http://www.nysun.com/business/ex-sec-official-blames-agency-for-blow-up/86130/


The Securities and Exchange Commission can blame itself for the current crisis. That is the allegation being made by a former SEC official, Lee Pickard, who says a rule change in 2004 led to the failure of Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, and Merrill Lynch.

The SEC allowed five firms — the three that have collapsed plus Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley — to more than double the leverage they were allowed to keep on their balance sheets and remove discounts that had been applied to the assets they had been required to keep to protect them from defaults.

Making matters worse, according to Mr. Pickard, who helped write the original rule in 1975 as director of the SEC's trading and markets division, is a move by the SEC this month to further erode the restraints on surviving broker-dealers by withdrawing requirements that they maintain a certain level of rating from the ratings agencies.

"They constructed a mechanism that simply didn't work," Mr. Pickard said. "The proof is in the pudding — three of the five broker-dealers have blown up."

[UpInArms]

90. NYC securities companies shed 10,000 jobs in August

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN1843818420080918

NEW YORK, Sept 18 (Reuters) - New York City's securities companies axed 10,000 workers in August from last year's total, and additional layoffs in the coming months seem likely, a state labor market analyst said on Thursday.

"I think it's a fair-sized number of people. It's just that there's a lot more to come," said James Brown, the market analyst, by telephone.

Banks and brokerages in New York City were already reeling from billions of dollars of mortgage-related writedowns before this week's surprise demise of Lehman Brothers and Bank of America's (BAC.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) purchase of Merrill Lynch.

[UpInArms]

92. From the Defaults Don't Matter Arena: Freddie Mac did not get $1.2 bln payment from Lehman

03. Freddie says FHFA suspended minimum, risk-based capital reqs
3:30 PM ET, Sep 18, 2008

04. Freddie Mac currently estimates Lehman exposure at $400 mln
3:29 PM ET, Sep 18, 2008

05. Freddie says Lehman exposure could be greater on review
3:29 PM ET, Sep 18, 2008

06. Freddie Mac did not get $1.2 bln payment from Lehman
3:28 PM ET, Sep 18, 2008

[Dr.Phool]

93. Up 400 pts in a matter of minutes!?

:wtf: :nuke: :wtf:

[Dr.Phool]

96. Gold dropping like a rock.

Was at 905 ealier. Now 846.

[Robbien]

102. Paulson hinting that he will buy bad debt mortgages from banks

I expect that means the toxic investment instruments not the real mortgages. Knowing these guys, helping mortgage homeowners is not their first priority nor would the stock market get giddy with word that homeowners are being bailed out.

[TalkingDog]

97. Here's the upswing motivator: Bush says he's working to calm economic turmoil

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BUSH_MARKETS?SITE=AP
seriously....with this pic.....



*wipes tears of laughter*

[SahaleArm]

98. We're in the middle of a credit crisis and WFC is at a 52-week high?

How the heck does that happen with all the level 3 assets on their books?

[Neshanic]

104. Hey kids! It's that Resolution Trust Show! Happy happy joy-joy! 400 points up.

So we have come full circle... the Resolution Trust claws frm from the grave.

[Renew Deal]

107. Just lost 70 points in 5 minutes

:wtf:

[Pale Blue Dot]

106. I need some help on the Resolution Trust Company

I've read the wikipedia entry and I can't make heads or tails of it. My basic question is: where did all of the bad debt go? It almost seems like people are thinking that the government establishes this Trust, throws all of the bad debt in there and it magically disappears. What am I missing? Can someone explain it in layman's terms?

[Jersey Devil]

109. No worries. Your grandchildren will pay it

I'll think about it tomorrow. Tomorrow's another day. - Scarlett O'Hara

[Emillereid]

111. Can anyone explain what's going on in the markets - I mean the DOW is up,

It went up 383 points in the last hour. Is it being manipulated and if so, by whom?

[Jersey Devil]

114. Just Wall St whooping it up because Bushie is gonna pay their debts

Bad loans? No problem! A new RTC will pay for it.

Let's see, they go from not aiding any of these troubled companies on Sunday when they let Lehman go down the tubes to paying for everybody's bad loans on Thursday. Not bad.

[Neshanic]

115. They are OFF THE HOOK. The government will take all comers. The "New RTC for a New Century!"

[BlueInPhilly]

122. It's called "Buy Low"

tomorrow will be the "sell high"

That's just the way the market is - McLame was not too far off in calling it a casino.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

120. Or your rock-scrabble grandchildren.

:cry:

[Pale Blue Dot]

112. Another question: How will foreign markets react?

I assume that they will be the ones to give us the money to make this happen. Is there a reason why the Fed waited until after the European markets closed to float this idea?

[Neshanic]

113. A quickie...

Savings and loans made massive bad loans to hype a mini-bubble on land and homes. Then the stock martket crash in 1987 exposed all the corruption and back deals. Keating five deals. Then the government covered and took over all the bad banks and savings and loans and all the assets....land, buildings, everything, then sold it for pennies on the dollar.

[Dr.Phool]

116. It's called The Crony Enrichment Program.

[TalkingDog]

117. Where I'm from we call them Carpetbaggers.

In the previous Depression they were called Bankers.

[Zenlitened]

135. But at least the gov't (we) had THINGS to sell back then.

This financial crisis, thought it "started" in the housing sector, is about phony, make-believe "assets." Derivatives-of-derivatives-of-derivatives. Imaginary wealth. Empty promises. What's there for us (the gov't) to sell, at any price?

:shrug:

[uppityperson]

119. Whoah! What a day.Here's some more #s from cnn link

http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/
Dow Jones Industrial Average
11,019.69 +410.03 / +3.86%
Sep 18 4:08pm ET †
Open: 10,609.01
High (day): 11,076.44
Low (day): 10,459.44
YTD%Change: -16.93%
Volume: 487,653,135.00

[Hugin]

121. Thanks uppityperson.

Sorry you missed it today.

But, at this point you and Ghost Dog have the pool if we ultimately have to call a "leaner" as in horse shoes. :)

[Ghost Dog]

125. Happy birthday uppity

:cheers:

[uppityperson]

133. Thank you!

[ozymandius]

142. Really?

Happy Birthday to you!

:toast:

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

123. Someone help me understand why AIG stock is up nearly 35%

when the company will no longer be on the exchange come Monday. I don't get it.

[ozymandius]

127. Vultures

Vultures are looking to make a quick buck.

Edit: This is an exercise in the "greater fool" theory. The Greater Fool theory states that that someone standing in line behind them will buy a share while the stock price is on the upswing, providing the previous purchaser with a tidy profit.

[Buttercup McToots]

143. Mike Morgans"s Blog from 9/8...interesting

Monday, September 8, 2008
Paulson Meets BombleGok
"The Fannie-Freddie bailout is one of the great political scandals of our age, all the more because it was so obviously coming for so long."
- The Wall Street Journal Editorial Page

The Wall Street Journal nailed it. Actually, they double nailed it when they added . . . "The least we can do now is bury these undead monsters for all time."

King Paulson's Court - Today's market rally was nothing more than King Paulson's full court press with his personal Plunge Protection Team. There were a lot of little warning signs that it was in the making, but one that really caught me off guard was Warren Buffet. As I noted in an earlier piece, when I heard Buffet's interview this morning, I could hear it in his voice . . . he was lying. And then he hesitated when admitting he Paulson called him Sunday morning. None of it makes sense, but then again it does.

Death By Bazooka - Just a few weeks back, Paulson was assuring us that everything was under control and he would not have to use the bazooka he just finagled out of Congress. And as soon as we turned our heads, he popped that bazooka and shot us in the back. But before delivering the death blow, he tipped off enough of his Paulson Pals, to make sure they backed him when he needed them most to rally global markets on the day after. And that's not all.

Bill Gross Gloats - It seemed a little odd listening to Bill Gross gloat. He was too happy and seemed to know too much. Bill Gross and others like him not only made a fortune on Paulson's scheme, but they will reap a second fortune in a few months. More on that in a moment.

Common and Preferred - Instead of burying the dead, Paulson dangled some kind of convoluted scheme to keep the common and preferred alive so his Pals can continue to trade this crap and make huge fees on each flip of the dead body. They can sell it to investors and then to pension funds and them to hedge funds and back to investors and then to foreign funds and on and on and on. All along the way, they get to clip a little piece of the pie. Paulson should have buried the equity holders, as they have reaped their rewards in the form of artificially inflated stock prices and dividends over the years.

SHARKS - Here's where it gets interesting. The sharks have already declared they are filing lawsuits against mismanagement at Fannie and Freddie. Who are they actually suing? Who's going to pay when the win? What happens if they win a huge award with treble damages and punitive damages and special damages we can't even imagine yet? Paulson really blew it . . . or did he.

The King is The Fox - Maybe he did exactly what he planned on doing. Maybe it wasn't what he had to do, but instead what was best for his buddies. He had the choice of shutting it all down, but that would not have sat well with Bill Gross and guys like Bill Gross. It would have also been a sore subject for China, Europe, Russia and any other holders of the debt. But what's worse? . . . mourning the dead now, or living with a dead corpse that is going to stink things up and make everyone sick? The Fox a/k/a King Henry gave all his buddies around the globe a little taste. He's definitely sly as a fox and powerful as any King that ever lived. And Jim Cramer is giving him stuttering Boo-Yahs . . . because his lips are stuck on the King's butt.

Bonus Billions - I'd love to know who owns the $20B or so of subordinated debt that Paulson had no obligation whatsoever to make good. I'd bet a box of lobsters Bill Gross and his buddies own a nice chunk of this bonus debt. But what's another $20B when you gave Jamie Dimon $30B to protect his counter party risk to Bear Stearns, and you've just given away $500B+++ of taxpayer money hidden in $25B packages of joy.

$500B or $10B - You've really got to laugh at the $10B number that some idiots still talk about as a viable number. In fact, Paulson will not put a number on this. Out of one side of his mouth, he still mumbles that we may not have to pay anything. I'm hear to tell you this is going to be at least a $500B hit to taxpayers . . . and that is being nice. I honestly believe the end number will be closer to $2T than $500B. Why?

Answer: Assets - Actually, the answer is not exactly assets, but the lack of or the value of the assets. With $5 trillion in mortgages, and probably the worst book of mortgages in the entire United States, it is safe to say the $5 trillion is probably worth less than half of that . . . and getting worse by the day. In fact, as I have demonstrated in earlier pieces, some of these mortgages are worth less than zero. That's right; they are actually a liability that is a monthly expense to Fannie and Freddie. By the way, just about all of the mortgages made now are going to Fannie and Freddie . . . and most of these mortgages are negative equity the moment they are delivered to Fannie and Freddie. When you hear about the Fannie and Freddie model being broken, that's being nice. The model is a scam . . . and the scamees are you and me.

Voila, Presto, Bingo, Bamboozled - Morgan Stanley came in and quickly realized the shenanigans Fannie and Freddie were pulling. It took less than a couple of weeks to figure it out. Actually, from what I hear, they already knew what was going on, and it only took them a few days to document enough to get Paulson's attention. But what Morgan Stanley didn't tell us, is just how deep the stench goes. By the way, Morgan Stanley "only" took $95,000 fee for their work.

P.S. - Well, an interim P.S. anyway. Morgan Stanley should take a look at their own assets that are backing all kinds of funky paper they hold, sold, bartered, traded, boxed up, and shipped out. I can assure you, the problems with bad assets and bad accounting practices are not something isolated at Fannie and Freddie. After all, the folks running Fannie and Freddie learned everything they know from the likes of Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Lehman, etc.

Equity Idiots - If the guys buying up the common and preferred were not idiots, they were crooks. There is no in between here. I can vouch for several idiots, because several companies that have retained me as a consultant over the last six months were firms that got stuck holding the bag with Fannie and Freddie stock. I left several of these meetings wondering why they even called me, if all they wanted was someone to tell them good things about housing and the mortgage markets. They could have called Carl Icahn or Wilbur Ross for that. There are a lot of clowns out there calling the bottom and selling the sizzle. Reading about them in the paper leaves me with one question. Why do these guys still have jobs? Believe me, I'd love to talk to some of the bosses of the idiots that hired me, and then decided to shoot the messenger.

Stinky Stuff - Everything about Paulson's scheme is stinky. And the gloating of guys like Bill Gross, combined with the cheery chirps of the bubbleheads on CNBC makes for one really scary nightmare. I'm still wondering whether I'm dreaming all of this or whether we really just witnessed the end of the United States as we have known it. There are a few Congressman and Senators making noise about what just happened, but they will be silenced with some form of payola.

It Gets Stinkier - Paulson has put together a scheme that can linger on and on and on, like the Energizer Bunny, providing his Pals with many opportunities to suck up billions. But . . . and this is one of those big BUTs. I'm hearing from a few of my friends that wear Kevlar and only come out at night, that neither McCain or Obama is going to honor the crap that Paulson just doled out to his buddies. No matter who gets in, they are going to re-structure the Paulson Giveaway. In fact, you can bank on that. It will be their opportunity to dump on the prior administration and the opportunity to put their own stamp on things.

P.S. - Before I forget. The same friends that only come out at night are telling me the lobbyists are taking numbers in Washington. These include the auto industry lobbyists looking for their bailout and the airline industry lobbyists and the trucking industry lobbyists and a few more that are taking numbers just in case. Stinky Rewards - My friends in hiding also tell me that their will be Stinky Rewards. These will be the huge rewards guys like Bill Gross will reap when they sell back the piles of paper they just bought. They will start selling them back to the Fed ASAP, and when the next Administration changes the rules, they will buy them back again at lower prices. Sounds nutty, huh?

Market Melt Down - Some cheese melts real fast and gets real stinky. Other cheese takes a long time to melt, but it also gets stinky. Today's market rally was well staged by Paulson and his personal PPT. I want to think we finish the week below 11,000. And I'm still touting 10,000 before we ever see 12,000 again. In fact, I changed that to seeing 9,000 before we ever see 12,000 again. If we didn't see some capitulation today, as the PPT closed us higher to make sure the nightly news had nice things to say, we will see capitulation very soon. I think the Bears are going to castrate the bull, and send him running back to Paulson for a BBQ. Why?

More Walking Dead - Lehman is all but dead, and there is nobody to bail them out. Merrill is dead but with the mighty John Thain at the helm, he's not going down without a street fight or until he finds someone else to take over with an even bigger signing bonus than he snookered up. WAMU is also dead, but at least they got rid of Killinger. And like with the Fannie and Freddie departing CEOs, WAMU rewarded Killinger with millions to leave. To make it real clear just how corrupt our entire financial system has become, WAMU is paying the new CEO a $10M signing bonus. Does anyone really think that $10M is a necessity? Does anyone really think one man can fix any of these institutions? This is a virus, with a 100% kill rate. This is a pandemic, the likes of which we have never seen. This is only something that can be fixed after we kill all the players that carry the virus, because the virus only dies when the host is dead. The hosts are the sick financial institutions being run by crooked executives, regulated by incompetent regulators, appointed by blissfully ignorant politicians and at the end of the line is a judicial system that is without power to do anything.

Fry Up - For my clients, we are going to concentrate on additional short positions and additional PUT options. Today's market rally was maybe the last gasp of a bull that realizes the bear holding his family jewels is going to have a traditional fry-up.
Posted by Mike Morgan, J.D., RIA at 11:48 PM

[Hugin]

146. This is really good.

Did you cross post it in the Economy forum or E&O, McToots?

[Buttercup McToots]

156. Nada...

You can go ahead though...
Different prospective...good...:)
Keep an eye on him...I know I will...

[ozone_man]

153. He should have his own MarketWatch segment

Hard hitting in contrast to the usual market bubble heads. I think we're ready for it. Yes? :)

[ozymandius]

155. Funky. With grit. And he calls out the liars and thieves.

This is an enjoyable read. It's sickening in some parts but it's not Mr. Morgan's fault.

[Robbien]

132. Greenberg remains a major stockholder in AIG

It is very possible these new stock buyers are planning on piggybacking in on any deal Paulsen has up his sleeve to compensate Greenberg for his stock.

[ozymandius]

126. Closing numbers include the first 10 billion share day.

Dow 11,019.69 Up 410.03 (3.86%)
Nasdaq 2,199.10 Up 100.25 (4.78%)
S&P 500 1,206.51 Up 50.12 (4.33%)
10-Yr Bond 3.437% Up 0.027
NYSE Volume 10,605,608,000
Nasdaq Volume 3,936,763,500

blather forthcoming

[ozymandius]

128. blather

4:45 pm : Stocks got off to a positive start Thursday as central banks attempted to calm concerns in the banking system by infusing billions of dollars into the global financial system. The advance was countered with selling pressure that turned an early 2% Dow advance into a 1.4% midday loss. However, the combined influence of an announcement prohibiting short selling in the U.K. and reports Treasury is considering a plan to create a Resolution Trust-like operation as a solution to the financial crisis stimulated huge buying interest late in the day. The Dow finished with a 3.9% gain, near its session high.

Trading opened with all ten of the economic sectors advancing as investors were encouraged by efforts from central banks to increase liquidity and ease credit concerns. The Fed boosted its dollar swap line by adding as much as $180 billion to the line.

Stocks began surrendering gains as participants became unsure of how to proceed without a clear-cut leader in the early going. The major indices took out new 52-week lows, pushing the Dow more than 22% off its October high.

That sent investors back into safe havens like gold and Treasuries. At its session high, gold was up almost 9%. Treasuries traded higher, but saw gains reverse when financial stocks emerged to lead a massive recovery effort.

Financials have been plagued by uncertainty in recent sessions. Reports continue to speculate over the future of Morgan Stanley (MS 22.55, +0.80) and Washington Mutual (WM 2.99, +0.98). Various reports indicate the two are looking for buyers.

Consolidation is also taking place overseas. U.K. banking giant Lloyds TSB Group (LYG 21.35, +2.24) announced it is acquiring struggling U.K. mortgage lender HBOS in an all-stock deal valued at roughly $22.2 billion. The U.K. government brokered the deal, and is overriding anti-monopoly regulations, according to reports.

The financial sector was able to garner favor as word that the Financial Services Authority, the United Kingdom's independent financial regulator, issued a temporary ban on short selling financial companies. Meanwhile, the New York Attorney General said he wants to freeze short selling financial stocks, according to Dow Jones.

The sector was helped even more after reports surfaced that Treasury Secretary Paulson is talking about a Resolution Trust Corporation-type solution that would help end the current crisis.

Financials were down 6.2% at their low, but closed with a gain of 11.7%. Still, the heavy losses incurred earlier in the week have the sector looking at a 5.7% week-to-date decline.

The wide swings and heavy buying made for high volatility and high volume. The Volatility Index, VIX, was at a multiyear high of 40 before settling back near 33.

NYSE volume was just under 2.5 billion shares.

The significance of the Fed's actions and developments from the financial sector caused participants to generally overlook most other happenings.

FedEx (FDX 91.13, +3.06) posted in-line earnings results, bringing in $1.23 per share for its latest quarter. The firm also issued upside guidance.

After coming under pressure from the threat of a credit downgrade, Constellation Energy (CEG 24.20, -0.57) announced it will be acquired by MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company for $26.50 per share in cash.

Lastly, initial jobless claims for the week ended September 13 increased 10,000 to 455,000 while the four-week moving average bumped up to 445,000 from 440,000. The weekly figure was above the consensus estimate of 440,000.

The four-week moving average sits roughly where it did in mid-August, but still reflects a soft labor market. DJ30 +410.03 NASDAQ +100.25 NQ100 +4.0% R2K +7.0% SP400 +4.9% SP500 +50.12 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 2114/3.85 bln/755 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 2395/2.45 bln/797

[Hugin]

129. No way... The Resolution Trust Corporation announcement was already priced in!

Had to be something else. :sarcasm:

[readmoreoften]

131. So is this just "we found a way to push it off for another year" or "another day"?

How soon will this burst?

[Yavin4]

134. At Least Push It Past The Election

Can't let the economy dominate the news cycle for the election even if it means that we have to dump trillions of dollars of bad debt on the public.

This election is supposed to be about the Moose lady from AK.

[ozymandius]

141. Some Thoughts on Paulson's Crackpot Plan

Now seems to be a good time to grab a beer and look around for comments made by people who are really blazingly smart about economics. So you'll understand that this narrative omits remarks by Charles Schumer, Henry Paulson, Ben Bernanke, Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank. Alan Greenscam is still hiding in a cave in upstate New York while he thinks about how to rehabilitate his shitty reputation. So his comments are, conveniently, unavailable for me to ignore.

For the record: Chris Dodd and Barney Frank have political views that I will happily occasionally embrace. But they are just not the sharpest tacks on money crisis situations.

Here's a list of questions that Yves Smith over at Naked Capitalism included in her latest exploration of the son-of RTC:

But this entity...proposes to buy assets. How will the price be determined for assets where there is no market, or where transaction volumes are very small? Note that small sales do not represent where larger trades should be priced. A tremendous number of players have set up distressed asset funds, yet perilous few have done any buying. Will this son-of-RTC really set market-clearing prices? It could instead, via a combination of lack of savvy or having compromised, conflicting objectives, instead validate above-true-market prices, which is a bad outcome on many fronts (throwing scare fiscal firepower away on a failed mission, preventing rather than facilitating price discovery).

And then the big question is: How are we going to afford to take ownership of this huge mountain of bad debt? We run a huge gambit with our foreign creditors:

And does anyone think the rating agencies and our foreign creditors aren't acutely aware of the size and scope of the obligations the US government is taking on?

Perhaps the biggest shortcoming of this idea is it assumes the US has the wherewithal to pull this off without the tacit support of our friendly foreign funding sources. Unlike Japan in the 1990s, which had a high enough savings rate to deal with its crisis internally, we are at the mercy of our overseas creditors.

The U.S. savings rate is still negative. We cannot afford this son-of-RTC because the world does not share our current political value of throwing good money after bad.

Stuff we really should not worry about: Naked Short Selling. The new bogeyman is back in vogue after dropping out the financial vernacular for a few weeks. Paul Kedrosky has a great idea:

Fire the SEC's Chris Cox? Sure, Then Fire John McCain: Oh, now John McCain is suddenly swinging with both fists on capital markets? He just said he thinks SEC Chair Chris Cox should be fired because he allowed naked short-selling and that is driving the current crisis? Un-be-frickin-believable.

...this has nothing to do with naked short-selling. Repeat after me: The trouble is not with short-sellers. The trouble is not with short-sellers. The trouble is with an over-levered financial system built on a house of cards comprised of under-collateralized toxic paper that was applauded all the way up by "housing is the American dream" nutters who couldn't see that vast expansions in thinly-traded credit are a path to economic ruin. Focusing on the short-sellers will lead to completely wrong and counter-productive non-solutions to the current crisis.

And a pox on Andrew Cuomo for making it his holy charge to pursue this silliness.

About quarantining debt: debt still has to be repaid. So can anyone explain to me why this plan, even with the clout of Paul Volker behind it, makes any damn sense? It rhymes in quality with another political idiom of the day: like putting lipstick on a pig.

[Hugin]

144. Thanks for the quick snap-shot analysis, Ozy.

Let me start off by saying most of it... The bulk of it... HUGE SWATHS OF IT MAKE SENSE.


But, I don't agree with the 'short-selling' protectionism and it's a conflict-of-interests for these people, many of
them have depended on short-selling for their incomes to be claiming so verbosely that it is absolutely not part of
the problem without a disclaimer to that effect.

No, short-selling is not ALL of the problem, but, it is an unregulated component of a complex problem. So, therefore,
I agree it shouldn't be the focus and the silver-bullet solution (of which there isn't one) won't emerge from looking
into it. So, if it's not important show what is and don't interfere with those who are working that facet of the overall problem.

[MaineDem]

147. Dodd is speaking at Maine's Jefferson-Jackson Dinner Saturday

THis should be a good speech!

[UpInArms]

149. odious greenscam headstone

[muleboy303]

151. lemme see if i've got this straight...

the secretary of the US Treasury under the most unpopular President in 60 years, publicly announces "consideration" of creating another federal government agency, similar to the RTC that "handled" the Savings & Loan crisis of the 1980's, which would have to be enacted by legislation, thus requiring the efforts of the most unpopular Congress ever, all in the middle, if not the beginning of a US, if not worldwide, recession...

and the DOW goes UP over 5% ? (500+ points from it's low of the day)

is Paulson just buying time? ala "Paulson and The Fed Are Not Trying To Solve The Financial Crisis. They're Trying to Delay It" (ht, yavin4) if so, did HP buy a day? a week? or seven weeks ??? "are we all Jimmy Stewart now" (from 'It's a Wonderful Life'?) or is the Fed/Treasury just outta bullets? ($) and has to resort to 'trial balloons' ?

or is there more than "TWO AMERICAS" ?

tomorrow is going to be wild.

[ozymandius]

154. Fact: they've lost control of the situation and they're trying anything

to regain it. If they can make another small fortune for their banking buddies in the mean time, then that's gravy.

They = Treasury and the FED.

They've lost control of the dollar. They've lost control of the market swings (but still have the muscle to mightily influence direction and outcomes). They've lost control of gold. They're lost control of overseas market trends. They would have lost control of the treasuries market if they were not printing the documents and conducting the auctions; unless it's a Dutch Auction.

Volatility is the name of the game. To squelch short selling is an attempt to arrest volatility among other things. The basic matter is: the markets are so volatile right now that no one can guide its direction. Only monumental boons and crises can influence market sentiment. Nuance is moot.