French government denounces attack on Jewish teens

[oberliner]

Source: Associated Press

PARIS – Three young Parisian Jews were treated for fractures and bruises after what France's interior minister described Sunday as an anti-Semitic attack.

The three – aged 17 and 18 – were wearing skullcaps and walking in northern Paris on Saturday when another group of youths threw a walnut at them, the Union of Jewish Students of France said.

One of the Jewish youths approached the other group to ask for an explanation and was encircled and beaten, said Raphael Haddad, the student group's president. The other two Jewish youths went to help their friend and were also beaten, Haddad said.

One of the youths suffered a broken nose and another a fractured cheekbone, while all three had bruises, Haddad said.

Read more: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20080907-1018-france-anti-semitism.html

[Flagg]

1. That's one version of things

[DavidDvorkin]

2. Meaning?

[Flagg]

3. Jewish gangs fight muslim gangs all the time in the 19th arrondissement.

When the jews get their asses kicked it's on TV for some reason.

[oberliner]

4. Here is a link to the story in French

Does it give any further info?

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080907/tts-france-antisemitisme-ca02f96.html

[McCamy Taylor]

9. It doesn't specify who attacked.

[aquart]

5. Probably so the French can cheer.

[Ravachol]

6. Care to explain what you mean by that?

Not sure if I got you right but I take it you are saying that french people are massively anti-semitic, that they would "cheer" on such an aggression?

Hope I got it wrong. As for the other poster, the french link doesn't provide much more info except that there has been a few other incidents these days. But anyone who pays any attention to what's going on in that district (arrondissement) of Paris knows that there has been a couple fights between "muslim-arab groups" (gangs? Please.) and "jewish groups", most of them young men. I'm not saying this is what occured in this particular case, though. Not that such violence should be encouraged.

[oberliner]

7. Thanks for the additional info

Why is there so much tension in this particular district?

[Hannah Bell]

8. from iht:

"A lot of young people are out of work in the neighborhood, which has broader delinquency issues, says Mao Peninou, the 19th Arrondissement's deputy mayor. "What we are dealing with is anti-Semitism on one side and racism on the other."

The area, on the northeast edge of Paris, borders the poorest suburbs and has one of the city's highest unemployment rates. It also has the city's youngest population and a disproportionate number of public-housing blocks, with high concentrations of families of Arab and African origins.

The tightly knit Jewish community there has expanded steadily since the 1980s, as Orthodox families moved from suburbs, many to live in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood with religious schools close at hand.

Of the 99 reported anti-Semitic acts in Paris in 2007 - down from 173 in 2006 - 19 were in the 19th Arrondissement, police figures show."

[Hannah Bell]

10. I wonder what the comparable stats are for anti-arab/african incidents in paris?

[oberliner]

13. What is the ratio between Arab/African and Jewish populations in Paris?

It is very hard to get any demographic information online as it appears they don't ask questions about religion and ethnicity in their census-taking.

Are they both similarly small minorities in the city?

[McCamy Taylor]

11. I surfed and found this. Scary.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7557499.stm

Divide and conquer has always been the boss's strategy to keep the working class down. For centuries the royalty in Europe and Russia redirected working class and peasant anger towards the Jewish merchant classes. I guess they are trying out the old strategy again.

[Ravachol]

12. Lot of semi well-integrated jewish youngies...

along a lot of not so well integrated muslim youngs. France and Paris especially have a strong arab immigration. This comes as no surprise, unfortunately, as some jewish communities resent what they perceive as a stronger anti-semitic sentiment these days (the French gov't and french medias in particular, who tend to be more on the left than american medias, have been critical of how Israel handles the Palestinian "question" - there's also a rebirth of neonazis and white nationalists movements in the Western World and France has her problems in that department). As for the muslim (arab speaking/looking would be closer to the truth) groups, they're not well received in a France that is more and more speaking out against immigration, with the election of Sarkozy, most notably. And the strong showing of many other right-wing parties.

Plus, the past years have seen a relatively explosive french youth. Combine all these elements and you get a good general portray of what's going on. It's not so much about a single thing than about a variety of reasons.

On edit: Poverty goes without saying.

[oberliner]

14. I would imagine these Jewish folks were not so well integrated

What percentage of the Parisian Jewish population wears yarmulkes in public?

I'd be curious to know whether the Jewish community in France has as high a percentage of Reform/Conservative/Secular Jews as here in the US. Or is there a larger orthodox population?

[Ravachol]

15. Secular population.

Most of these people don't define themselves as "jewish" but as french. Same goes for the "African/Arab" population, actually. I'm not saying there is no racism but that people usually more look at the problem from a socio-economic point of view: i.e that these people have been maintained in a situation of poverty and unemployment. Such a situation would create tensions and violence, no matter the community. The jewish neighborhood is fairly small compared to whole suburbs of immigrants coming from african/arab roots/nations.

Also, French census doesn't ask the "race", as far as I know but I could be wrong.

[AllieB]

16. I stayed in the Marais in June right next to an Orthodox synagogue.

I have stayed in this neighborhood many times, and it still has a sizeable Orthodox and Hasidic population who dress in traditional clothing. France has a small Jewish community now, and many are secular/Reform. Many of the Jews in the Northern Arrondissements or in Belleville are from North Africa or Eastern Europe. I went to the Jewish History Museum in Paris for the first time this summer, and if you ever get to Paris, I highly recommend it.

[oberliner]

17. Thanks for the info!

Do you feel that there is a lot of tension between the various religious and ethnic communities or are incidents like this rare and shocking?

[AllieB]

21. In the Marais, I would say rare and shocking, but in the northern suburbs, not so much.

The northern arrondissements and the northern suburbs are poorer, and there is more police violence there also.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[oberliner]

19. Where was it on tv?

They said it was two gangs fighting?

[pegleg]

20. All public violence needs to be condemned and punished. there is

no excuse or justification for it.