B-52s deploying to Guam: US Air Force

[DuctapeFatwa]

The United States is deploying a half dozen B-52 bombers to Guam this month as part of a 90-day rotation to back up US forces in the region, air force officials said Wednesday.

It coincides with a massive rotation of forces to Iraq which will include thousands of Marines based on the US west coast, including a 3,000-member Marine Expeditionary Force that normally would be deploying to Okinawa, said Lieutenant Commander Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman.

He said the deployment has been long in the works and was not in response to any particular situation in the region.

http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040204223936.xyqgph7o.html

[Lefty48197]

1. I think they're getting to invade Pakistan with the six B-52's

sshhhh!

[DemoTex]

2. Speaking of B-52s ...

I saw a B-52 at about 5000 feet last week as I drove through Shreveport on my way back to Dallas. Barksdale AFB, at Shreveport/Bossier City, is home to a B-52 wing (? ... I'm not real good on USAF TO&E) and, of course, a favorite hiding place of the Chimp when the going gets tough. Anyway, I was again amazed at the sweep of the B-52's wings! Anyone out their with any idea what the sweep is? I know the BUFF (Big Ugly Flying Fucker) has massive trailing-edge flaps. Does it have leading-edge slats or Kruger flaps? What is the Mmo on that puppy, .89Mach or so? I think the average sweep of the Boeing 727 is about 27-degrees (I could be wrong). The Boeing B-52 looks like it sweeps about 35-degrees. Could it be?

[DS1]

3. Yep, 35 it is

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/B52/AP37.htm

[DemoTex]

5. I must have calibrated eyeballs, because 35-degrees was a guess.

Looks like big flaps with no LE devices. Must have a fairly high approach speed (like maybe near 190 knots).

[Johnyawl]

24. Here's an interesting B-52 fact for you, Mac

Updated with modern technology, the B-52H will continue into the 21st century as an important element of US forces. Based on the projected economic service life and forecast mishap rates, the Air Force will be unable to maintain the requirement of 62 aircraft by 2044, after 84 years in service.

By the time that plane is retired, the likelihood is that none of the original aircrews will still be alive.

[Shakespeare]

4. yup--Barksdale's got one of the SAC wings.

My dad was stationed there many, many, many years ago.

[DemoTex]

7. Damn! Two-for- two on wild-ass-guesses.

Maybe I should stop at the Horseshoe Casino in Shreveport on my way back to NC and roll a few.

[Sugarbleus]

21. You go Demo...lol Say, Cmdr. Flex Plexico??? is that a joke? lol

[rppper]

19. i grew up just across the texas line.....

around the marshall/longview area....i can remember those big, loud but strangely beautiful beasts flying low over our house either on approach or take off. as my dad was retired army, my mother also did a lot of shopping at the commisary and exchange over there....

[freestatevet]

29. It's an ACC Wing now

SAC no longer exists, I'm sorry to report.

[megatherium]

9. damned impressive planes

I saw one flying very low, maybe a dozen years ago, driving in Arkansas. It was spooky, I saw the plane an hour after seeing a flatbed semi carrying a large green metal cask, which had chemical warning signs on the back that said corrosive and radioactive. Doubt there was a connection but it gave me the creeps.

[kurtyboy]

20. Wait till you see one bug out during EWO

(Emergency War Orders)--hopefully for an exercise only.

From Dr. Strangelove (God Speed, Stanley Kubrick)

GENERAL TURGIDSON
(glancing at the AMBASSADOR)
If I can speak freely, sir -- look, these guys
talk big, but frankly, we think they're short of
know-how. You can't just take a bunch of ignorant
peasants and expect them to understand a machine
like one of our boys, and I don't mean that as an
insult, Mister Ambassador. Hell, we all know what
kind of guts your people have. Why just look how
many millions of 'em those Nazis
(pronounced NAZZEES)
killed and, hell, they still wouldn't quit.

PRESIDENT MUFFLEY
General, stick to the point, please.

GENERAL TURGIDSON
(making diving aircraft hands)
Well, sir, if the A/C's a really good man, I
mean really sharp, why he can barrel that
plane along so low - well you just have to
see it some time. A real big plane, like a
Sting Ray, zig-zagging in, its jet exhaust
frying chickens in the barnyard ---
(almost feverish with
excitement)
Has he a chance?.....Hell, yes! He has one
hell of a chance.

[DemoTex]

26. Splaaaatttt!

You owe me a new screen! Too damn funny!

[Zero Gravitas]

22. saw one too

I've always liked the B-52 as a plane (I'm not such a big fan of carpet bombing however.) I saw onr take off from Bermuda of all places. This was in the 80s when there was still a US base there. That thing was LOUD! & a very impressive sight.

[rincons land]

34. If it was loud...

it was a G model. They had turbo jet engines and used water injection for take off. Very noisy and smoky takeoff and very violent on the inside on takeoff. Went thru 1200 gallons of water in 90 seconds on a wet takeoff

The H models are the cadillacs of the fleet. THey have huge turbofan engines that barely whistle down the runways on takeoff. Very smooth ride from the inside on an H model.

[reprobate]

18. Hey, Demotex, where you been. Haven't seen you around lately.

Welcome back if you were away. If you weren't away just ignore this and chalk it up to premature CRS (Can't remember shit).

[DemoTex]

27. I'm back and forth

Mostly forth at my mountain house in NC. I'm back in Texas now selling my Dallas house. I have a buyer and a contract. Closing is 2/16. There is still time for the deal to go down the crapper.

[Darranar]

6. This is interesting...

thanks for posting.

Are they afraid of some sort of insubordination from the leaders in Southeast Asia? Or is this to defend against North Korea, as it seems to be at first glance?

Regardless, it is more evidence that the hegemonists are paying some attention to possible competitors in Asia. We will have to see how this develops.

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. Your guess is as good as mine, I have just noticed over the years that

when the US moves soldiers and weaponry and says it is routine, newsroom staffs are advised to stock up on Jolt Cola and pizza coupons :)

[Darranar]

10. They're not going to start a war, at least not yet...

they have their hands full with Iraq, both militarily and politically, and it will be difficult to do another Osama-to-Saddam style ploy to shift attention elsewhere. Now that the opposition is finally starting to act like an opposition and not a humble servant (however much this may be a trick), they'll have to create some semblance of order in Iraq, even if it is only superficial, in order to actually strike somewhere else.

I think it's simply intimidation. Towards whom, though? As you said, your guess is as good as mine.

Edited: Phrasing and Grammar

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. The only clue I can think of is that N Korea gassing prisoners story

that has been being passed around the last week, as if there were not enough Evil Kim stuff for them to send faithful ol' Uncle Colin back to the UN with a whole new PowerPoint.

I think their Asia strategy is to try to persuade most of the population there to blow each other up. You are correct that a full-scale invasion of Korea is not feasible until they have at least the first wave of draftees.

[Darranar]

15. They're not going to go to war with North Korea...

I assume they hope they can make it China #2: Strongly condemn them for their human rights abuses, then convinently believe their lies about how they've reduced them, then make their people another victim of "free" trade. They're making a foolish mistake, though, that a master hegemonist and diplomat like Clinton never would have done: they're waving the stick and not offering the carrot. Instead of caving in, North Korea is continuing to produce more WMDs and conventional weaponry to avert US invasion.

I think their Asia strategy is to use "free" trade to ensure that the Eastern Asian nations don't rise against the US (the Middle East is a little different, but there's no need to get into that since we mostly agree there.) They made another mistake by concentrating too much on the USSR during the Cold War; they allowed certain parts of Southeast Asia and Japan to grow powerful, because they were allies against the Soviets (well, that was the official excuse).

The same sort of thing happened with Western Europe. Interestingly, "New Europe", mainly, with the exceptions of Italy and Spain, consists of Soviet bloc nations, whose corruption and authoritarianism impeded their social and economic progress. In the situation they are in today, the results of decades of "Communist" rule followed by a "free" market rampage, they can stand up to the US about as much as a child throwing rocks can stand against a tank, even if they have popular support in doing so.

Edited: Grammar and clarity

[DuctapeFatwa]

17. some days I think that, that they just see it as a vast sea of serfs

other days I think that the plan is to get it depopulated, preferably with little or no overt US assistance, and figure that since over half the world's people live there, that there will still be plenty of slave labor left over afterwards.

[DemoTex]

11. Back to topic. Sorry for the digression.

B-52s aren't going to Guam to do touch-and-goes and tempt mag-check-Charlie (the pilot eating shark). This is a show-of-force for whom? North Korea? Where is Al Quaeda? Philippine Islands? China vs. Taipei?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

16. Indonesia more likely. We have been sucking up to them for

a while now. I wish someone on the west coast or hawaii could tell us what those Marines are wearing.... tan cammo or green.
That would be very telling.

On edit.... Guam would not be the base for Korea. Alaska was where BUFF flew out of for Korea. Guam is the S. Pacific bomber base.

[alfredo]

25. Wasn't there something about Marines being

sent to the region? Maybe we are going to do some landscaping then some face to face with some of the locals.

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. A Marine I know from NC

just left for 1 to 3 years in Japan.

Some of what's going on might be this huge turn over that the DOD is doing right now of troops and equipment.

[MilesColtrane]

13. Here it Comes

Unfortunately, I think BushCo has been encouraged that their preemptive, invade-first-find-a-reason-later policy actually works thanks to a few amenable words from Libya.
B52s in Guam, along with American troops moving south of Seoul may be our only glimpse into the shitstorm that's about to be released on the Korean peninsula.
Rove, having been given the task of making another stolen election look not TOO bad, is preparing to give us a real war time president.
A air strike on NK's nuclear facilities and/or a blockade will be considered an act of war with retaliation sure to follow. Seoul goes up in flame along with about a million humans.
Then there's the stickiness of the six or seven thermonuclear bombs North Korea has. Californians better pray that technicians in Pyongyang are still reading the owners' manuals on their shiny new three stage missiles.
And it's time to rally! No more talk about that Iraq place. We are at WAR! 70% Americans will believe that most of the 9/11 hijackers were North Koreans. October surprise in early August anyone?

[DemoTex]

14. If that happens ...

DemoTex can run for president and be elected. No Army, no Navy, and no USAF for the Pacific mission. We are spread way too thin as it is.

[Zero Gravitas]

23. thermonuclear?

I hope these guys don't believe their own spin on Libya... they've been trying to worm their way back into the international community for more than a decade. Even a third-rate tin-pot dictator like Gaddafi can take advantage of Bush's ineptness.

(and I hope NK doesn't really have H-Bombs :) )

[lebkuchen]

28. The B52s used to be based on Guam

The maintenance facilities are still there. Are these planes going to be refitted or undergo some other maintenance procedure?

[freestatevet]

30. Not likely

That kind of maintenance is done at CONUS depots, not overseas. B-52's periodically deploy to Guam for "operational" reasons.

[IndianaGreen]

31. I smell the Philippines and carpet bombing

Is the US going to escalate the war in the Philippines (you knew there was a war there, didn't you?)?

[starroute]

40. I agree -- Moslem areas are still the main target

Indonesia is primarily Moslem. The Philippines are mainly Catholic, but I believe the major insurgent movement is Moslem. Both areas also have associations with terrorism (the Bali bombings, the pre-911 travels of some of the alleged hijackers, even connections with the Oklahoma City bombing.)

There was a item I saw yesterday (maybe here at DU, but I'm not sure) about the Bush administration aiming to put the entire Islamic world under a sort of American protectorate and teach them how to be democratic.

I think the main geopolitical strategy at this point is (1) to pick off easy targets and (2) to form a cordon of regimes subservient to the US around both Russia and China.

Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines all fit in well with that strategy. Also, they probably figure they could attack those areas at will under the original Congressional resolution which authorized the war on Iraq -- whereas an unauthorized attack on North Korea might be stretching things a bit even for them.


On edit: found that earlier thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=349244

The Bush administration is trying to enlist European support for a grand plan to reform the Arab and Islamic world and integrate it within a western security umbrella.

American and European Union officials held a meeting in Washington last week on the so-called "greater Middle East" initiative, an evolving project that could involve countries from Morocco to as far east as Pakistan and is being billed as a priority for US foreign policy this year.

Really gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling, don't it?

[Florida_Geek]

32. Some facts on the B-52

One of the "Top Secrets" for many years was all the wheels can turn, that allows the B-52 to land with the body of the plane 5-10 degrees off center of the runway.

Carpet bombing is pretty much out. They now have GPS guided smart bombs.

In the mid 60s SAC used to do what was called "Mighto" (sp-maybe) takeoffs. They would practice with 10-15 planes made up of B-52 and KC-135 Tankers. The planes would line up on the taxiway and end of the runway. When the gun was sounded, the planes would start their takeoff roll with 15 seconds between planes. At any time there was at a minimum 3 planes rolling. I saw a couple of these at the AFB at Rome NY. There was a viewing overlook along the runway. It would be packed with people watching one of these "Mighto" takeoffs. :d

[rincons land]

33. correction:

the landing gear would caster 20 degrees left OR right of center giving a total of 40 degrees of travel. It was called cross wind crab landing system.

it's MITO (Minimum Interval Take Off) not mighto. We lost a BUFF on a MITO take off out of Mather AFB in 1982 when it got too close to the plane in front of it. The pilot retarded the throttles but the water injection system kept pumping water into the engines causning a flame out. Lost 6 good men that day.

I was a B-52 crew chief during the Reagan years.

[BrotherBuzz]

36. And I was that crazy dude....

building those sailboats in that rocky industrial yard next to Mather in the early eighties. I watched, well, mostly heard you guys take off every morning and land in the afternoon. Thanks for the water/smoke/noise explanation...Guess I was watching/hearing G model BUFF's. You guys spewed more smoke out your engines then my '57 Ford ever did.


Welcome to DU.

[rincons land]

37. actually

I was based out of Castle AFB down the road in Atwater. We had some BUFF's TDY at MAther in '82 after another BUFF crashed and burned on the runway at Castle and shut it down for a few weeks for repair. It was during this TDY that the MITO crash occured.

[rincons land]

38. another interesting fact,,,

when the BUFF's would taxi out for a MITO takeoff there would be about 10 to 20 of the beasts lined up nose to tail. THis was refered to as the "elephant walk".

[buycitgo]

35. I thought they were from Athens, Georgia

Or in there own private Idaho.

Rock Lobster!