"More Homeowners, Associations Clashing" - Foreclosed over $150

[mulethree]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040201/ap_on_bi_ge/home_foreclosures_1

"Now, months after moving in, they've lost their home to a wealthy buyer of foreclosed properties and been ordered off the property over what started as $120 in back association dues"

"The Radcliffs received a bill last year for $120, which covers annual costs of keeping up a country subdivision in the foothills of Calaveras County. But they didn't pay it quickly, claiming sickness and distraction, then saying they didn't see most of the late notices and warnings of increasing danger. Deadlines passed and the bill swelled with fees from the collection agency, eventually reaching $1,952."

"Macomber said Anita Radcliff walked a $156 check to the association office last June, within the required 30-day notice of delinquency. But he said the association mailed it to the collection agency, Coast Assessment of Garden Grove, which returned it, saying the amount fell short of new late fees.

"The payment made was $1.50 less than the invoice presented," Macomber said."

" "The record shows the owners received all the notices they were required to receive by law. The law was complied with," said Woodbury, who advises hundreds of California's 36,000 homeowner associations. "

"As one in six Americans live under private rules of 260,000 homeowners associations, such foreclosures by an aggressive and some say predatory collection industry that pursues back dues have become more common. In the past three years, homeowners in Las Vegas, San Diego, St. Petersburg, Fla., and Houston have lost homes over sums as small as $81"

[aquart]

1. How illegal should this be?

I'm thinking, very.

[liberalhistorian]

3. Unfortunately,

it's VERY legal. If you have a judgment lien against someone, no matter how small the amount, you can file a foreclosure against whatever property they own in order to collect it and, as I just said in my first post on this thread, homeowners associations do not hesitate to do just that even if the fucking fee is only $40 or so.

[Kimber Scott]

10. Do these people never hear of bankruptcy

protection under a Chapter 13? Or, do they not have a homestead act? Of course, here in Arizona an 80+ year old woman lost her, nearly free and clear, house because she wouldn't mow the lawn. And, we have both of the protections I just listed. She just didn't use them. I, too, think homeowner's associations have too much power. They should have to jump through some considerable hoops before they can steal someone's house - flags, grass and all. Yes, you do sign on the dotted line, but life happens and one should not be made homeless over $150.00 in this country. It is still the U.S. of A. isn't it? (Bush Administration aside.)

[LiberalFighter]

30. They should be made an example!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liberalhistorian]

2. I'm a paralegal for a real estate attorney,

and I can guaran-damn-tee you that I will NEVER EVER be under the thumb of a fucking homeowners association, and I would strongly recommend that no one else be either.

They are the most uptight, legalistic, petty, stupid, nasty groups you could ever imagine. We've had clients sued over stupid shit like the color of their fucking houseplants was wrong, bullshit like that. And you're a dollar late with a damn fee and their attorneys are all over your ass like shit. They send notices to old addresses AFTER it's been documented that they've been given the new address (a lot of times homeowners will rent out their units and live at a different address), and still charge late fees when something's their mistake, etc., etc. So this doesn't surprise me in the least.

[bluestateguy]

4. We need a homeowner's bill of rights

Among its provisions would be legislation restricting the powers oh homeowners' associations and the elderly busy bodies who run them. I would say that Taft-Hartley says that a worker cannot be compelled to join a labor union (dependeing on state law), a homeowner should not be compelled to join a homeowner's association if they choose not to do so.

Also, this is just another reason why the Second Amendment right to bear arms is so important: protection of private property from corrupt institutions.

[theHandpuppet]

58. Why pick on the elderly?

What gives you the impression that only "elderly busybodies" are the ones running these clubs for the anal retentive? I've known several people who belong or belonged to these HAs (including my own sister) and none of them was an elderly person. In fact, I recently saw an interview with two of the HA members involved in this particular case and neither was elderly. Please don't make generalizations about our seniors.

BTW, I'd sooner live on the street than in one of those "gated communities" with some jackboot HA looking over my shoulder night and day. There was a well-publicized case near here where a couple was taken to court over a small bird feeder in their back yard, as the HA claimed it "attracted wildlife" and was therefore against the rules!

[jburton]

5. Isn't this like moving next to an airport

and then complaining about the loud planes?

If you move into an area that has a Neighborhood Association, what do you expect?

Remember the wingnut last year that was all riled up because the Neighborhood Association wouldn't let him fly his 'Murkin flag on a flagpole?

It sucks these people lost their house, but they should have read the contract and/or learned the implications of a Neighborhood Association before they signed on the dotted line.

[KCDem]

8. I agree with you.

If you don't want a neighborhood with a contract, don't move into one.

[mulethree]

20. Good luck avoiding a HOA

Dunno where you live, but in the "new construction boom" areas of the PA Poconos, where they have built some ?100,000? houses in the last 15 years, Literally 99% of the real estate available for house plots is in HOA's.

Really pretty sickening, Houses that you could build for $100K costing $300K. People who mostly commute 5 hours a day (literally) since theres no industry nearby except home building and retail - which don't pay enough to cover the mortgage. Half these poor slobs commute to Manhattan and sit with a computer and phone all day. By 2001 they would be able to stay at home and telecommute, maybe see the sun or their kids once in a while. But nowadays if the job is really telecommutable, it's off-shoreable.

But it gets them out of the city, lets their kids have good schools and often a stay-at-home mom. They can get a house for $300K thats better than a $500K house in/near the city.

Personally I'd rather live another hour away from the city, out of commuting range, but where I can have the same house and 10X the land for $150K instead of $300, and can have a barn, tree-house and dog.

[SuffragetteSal]

44. Good point

This is very true, many are incorporating small HOA fees into new developments. Ours is only $15 a month but I noticed the original company of HOA people has been taken over by a citizen group or something and the head guy is a realtor. How convenient for him that he is there if anyone defaults on their payments for whatever reason. Slimes...

What the heck we get for $15 a month beats me...

[Virginian]

56. Your HOA is you and your neighbors.

You have annual meetings to select which of your neighbors will be on your board of directors. The board of directors hires a Management Company to make sure that the common areas are taken care of, the snow is removed, dead trees are removed, and that the individual owners take care of their properties to keep up the values of all of the homes.

You are talking like the Home Owners Association is made up of people who aren't your neighbors. Of course if most of the homes in your neighborhood are rentals, You, as a homeowner, are in big trouble.

[question everything]

54. Yes, new constructions in Southern California are practically under HOA

I think that in California they passed some laws limiting the powers of these governments.

I lived in California for several years and was amazed how all those people who moved to California to do their own thing, all those conservative Republicans who believe in small government - or so they say - willingly submitted themselves to leave under bylaws that they did not vote nor approved.

I think that it started with Proposition 13 that limited property taxes. Thus, new sub divisions had to fund them by other means with different taxes. Also, in most cases they would start building on unincorporated land, so the developers would establish these 'CCR' rules.

With housing markets exploding, many homeowners think that having associations preserve the value of their homes. In some of them campaign yard signs, or any signs, are not allowed on private property.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. This is the wave of the future.

HOA get away with things the government cannot, for example, in Florida, HOA can take your homestead if you go bankrupt and forget to pay the dues, but the government cannot.

Yet, the local governments love them, especially if there are private roads involved, because it's less trouble for the government, but a source of funds.

[SemperEadem]

29. HOA's get away with it because no one has organized

the homeowners to fight them. Once there is something that forces them to the table to negotiate terms of homeowning in a particular subdivision, then you will see a change in what they do.

But anyone who is stupid enough to sign a homeowner contract and then refuses to pay what they've agreed to pay, or to abide by the rules set down that they agreed to abide by deserves to have their home taken away. If you don't want to do what is asked, then don't move into that subdivision.

[LizW]

7. Holy crap

I didn't know Homeowners' Associations could mandate payment of dues. Ours is voluntary, thank goodness. We don't belong because I think they're a bunch of busybodies who want every house and yard to look the same.

[JPace]

9. I could understand if the home were sold and

the money taken out of the receipts for the
amount owed. The rest should be returned to
the original owner, it seems predatory to
take any amount of money over what it owed.

[heidler]

11. Home owners associations.

I volunteered as the President of a HOA in CA and was also a CA licensed Real Estate Broker. I also lived there. Several times we had collection problems and it is possible for this problem to bankrupt the whole project. Some people take advantage of their friends being un-willing to foreclose.
When you do finally foreclose the property is eventually sold at auction to collect the debt and the one who is being foreclosed on can bid to protect his or her interest. The problem frequently gets out of hand because all of the other indebtedness if unpaid could and often does exceed the value of the property. This is where first, second and so on mortgages comes into play. If the first is more than is bid the second gets nothing and on down the line. To protect them selves the owner in default must join in the bidding. Usually they do not show up because there is no equity.
There is another big gotcha for the winner of the auction. If a junior loan is the one that is foreclosing. The holder of the first and or higher ranking indebtedness could very easily remain unpaid. So this cheap buy may not end up so sweet. You really have to know what you are doing.

[liberalhistorian]

12. Well, I'm sorry, but in my

professional experience, HOA's have no problem at all going after the least little sum. We had one client being sued for a FORTY DOLLAR FEE. FORTY FUCKING DOLLARS, it turned out the HOA had been advised of her new address, and we had the documentation to prove that they had been so advised, but had been sending the payment notices to an address she hadn't used in years (she was renting the unit out and lived in another state); they'd increased the fees, and she'd been sending the lower amount not having gotten the notices of the increase due to their lazy incompetence.

And then they had the nerve to try to charge her for all the late fees and court costs and attorney fees, we were able to tell them where to stick it because it was their mistake in the first place, and they simply refused to recognize the evidence we had that showed they'd been advised of her new address and they just dug in like a pit bull, which is what most of the fucking HOA's do.

Believe me, my boss and I deal with them all the time and I will NEVER EVER be under the thumb of one!

[heidler]

27. What do you have the right to expect from unpaid volunteers?

Being on the Board of a HOA is extremely thankless. I moved and would never get involved again. Sure the volunteers make mistakes and people refuse to follow the rules. I would never advise anyone to buy into one, but if that's all you can afford it happens. I would especially not advise any one to be a absentee land lord of one. The communication methods are frequently by bill boards. In fact some HOA have rules against landlords or renting of any sort and this is usually ignored. The Condo deal doesn't work well in the first place and any little wrinkle magnifies the problem. This is why they tend to be low in price.

[liberalhistorian]

28. First of all, a lot of the positions

are NOT "unpaid", and secondly, they should NOT have the right to arbitrarily and extraordinarily raise fees whenever they damn well feel like it, which is what we see all the time. And in most HOA's we see, absentee ownership is perfectly okay, they don't care as long as they get their fucking ridiculous fees. And if someone has given a new address but the HOA can't be bothered to send notices to the new address, then that's THEIR damn problem, and not that of the homeowner.

[Missy Vixen]

42. Paid HOA board members? Where?

>"First of all, a lot of the positions are NOT "unpaid"<

I guess I'd like to know where these "paid" HOA board positions are. My husband and I spent four years dealing with the issues of our development. For FREE. We finally got so sick of it that we moved away.

Our former next door neighbor just finished up her five-year stint on the board. She was overseeing the several-million dollar construction defects repairs. For FREE. Since she is a construction loan lender, this was a significant gift to the development, and saved them tens of thousands of dollars.

She was also buttonholed at 5 AM by homeowners ("so-and-so is parking in the fire lane/why do I have to pay dues/my neighbor has the wrong color flowerpots on their entry stairs,") while walking her dog so many times that she resigned. I think she's going to move as well.

Julie

[heidler]

47. Same thing I ran into.

The reason it screws it up more when there are absentee landlords is they are not there to help with the work, but cause more work for the volunteers and make money off of the volunteers free labor. They also cause extra expense for the Home owners who are living there. Renters degrade the whole Condo.

[liberalhistorian]

62. Oh, really?

I deal daily with both renters and homeowners, and it's my experience that the homeowners are the ones who cause most of the problems, and NOT the renters! Too many people simply cannot afford to be a homeowner nowadays, myself certainly among them, and I really resent such an elitist attitude against renters. I'd rather live near renters than snobbish, elitist, fascist, gated community homeowners a lot of the time.

[LiberalFighter]

31. Duhhhhh

They were receiving the lower amount and accepting the amount??

1) Name and address on the envelope
2) Name and address on the check

[liberalhistorian]

43. Exactly!

That's why our client stood her ground and refused to pay ANYTHING, late charges, court costs, attorney fees, etc. And she finally WON, too, when they finally dismissed the stupid fucking foreclosure.

[bleedingheart]

13. Lucikly I have no Home Owners Association...

just pay my taxes and mortgage.

My husband and I could not afford the neighborhoods that had the special covenants and restrictions...plus we found it odd that at any time they could raise the HOA fees without much effort.

I recall that the HOA fees ranged from $120 a year to as much as $1200 a year for those developments with pools, cabanas, etc...

My mother in law is contemplating a move from her neighborhood because the HOA fees have become too high...

[davsand]

14. Condo fees, Owners' Associations--you KNOW this when you buy the property.

When you BUY the property you know about this stuff-at least in Illinois it is clearly shown on the property transfer. Your real estate agent is required to list it when they list the property for sale, and any appraisal is required to show it. Do people not read this stuff?

I'm horrified at the predatory practices used in collections, but i have to say, I am equally sickened by the stupidity that some consumers show.

Laura

[twilight]

15. tell some sick old lady that

The problem is that often they lure these old people into these "deals". My late mother was the victim of such a scam. The guy that owned the property presented her with 4 different contracts after she moved in and was trying to get an additional $38,000.00 from her.

She got very angry and hired an attorney. Then she fell ill suddenly as it seems she had cancer and did not know it. This explains why my mother wasn't quite on top of things as usual (she was 77 years old). Now she is dead and I strongly believe that the stress from the situation activated the cancer which was apparently lying dormant in her system.

She begged me on her death bed not to give this SOB the $38,000.00 and I swore I wouldn't as I was the executor of her estate. The SOB did not get the $38,000.00. I was able to sell the property out from under the SOB and I got my dead mother out of the deal without having to pay the asswhole off.

The people that own these places intimidate the occupants as was the case with my mother.

I'd say, LET THE DAMN LAWN GROW as high as it wants. If you own your own house free and clear and you are too sick/old to care for it, well, to hell with the neighbors! Better than ending up spending your final days incarcerated in one of these "places" (or retirement communities as they like to call them!). Boy, I know my mother was sure sorry about the decision and she was no dummy, she was SICK! :grr: :grr: :grr:

:dem: :kick:

[liberalhistorian]

16. I agree totally, HOA's

have total discretion over when and how high to raise the fees. You could go from paying $100 a year to a couple thousand a year in just a couple of years, with no end in sight. And in a lot of cases, the details are hidden deep within contracts and restrictions.

DO NOT GET ME STARTED on HOA's, I see every day the damage they're capable of inflicting and the total heartlessness and ruthlessness with which they go about their business.

[twilight]

18. yep they are ruthless bastards!

I really wish they'd clamp down on these organizations. Greed rules their ugly little minds! The usual victim is an elderly or disabled person that can't take care of their home anymore!

The contracts are pages thick, hidden behind those oh so friendly and warm smiles of the owners that tell you how safe it is to live in one of these cages where no grandchildren are allowed, no pets are allowed, no this allowed, no that allowed! Why not simply check into the nearest prison? Life might be better - at least you get food!

Life is hell and then you die ... *broke that is*

twilight

:dem: :kick:

[FlaGranny]

24. Homeowners Association

A legal agreement among ALL the homeowners to adopt and follow a set of written rules. Monthly meetings, votes, decisions, rules accepted, rules discarded, fines agreed upon. PERIOD.

If you don't like following the rules, don't buy. Where I live, it is required to join the association. The rules are clear. We moved here because we like living in a nice neighborhood where we know the next door neighbor will not have 8 kids, 15 cats, 5 dogs, or put old cars up on cinder blocks in the driveway.

When we were looking for our home, we looked in many places. This place was the one we liked best. Why did we like it? Because of the association rules that made it the kind of place we were looking for.

Some homeowners associations might be more difficult to deal with than others, but the one where I live, I've yet to hear of anyone getting foreclosed. They are quite patient, but they have been called "nazi" for trying to enforce the rules everyone who lives here has agreed to. My opinion is that they should continue to enforce them. If they don't enforce them, then this place will deteriorate like so many others.

One very nice mobile home park I lived in years ago was sold when the owner died. The new owners enforced no rules at all and the place is now a disgusting slum. That tends to happen where the living is very inexpensive and there is no enforcement. Seniors need inexpensive living, but cheap brings big problems - without rules.

If folks do not like to follow rules they should keep out of places where rules are made and enforced.

[LiberalFighter]

32. Is that what city ordinances are for???

Aren't cities suppose to legislate how high the grass is permitted to grow? How many cats and/or dogs are permitted? Whether cars can be up on cinder blocks?

[ender]

35. it depends on "incorporation"

some developments are not in city limits, per se, and do not fall under zoning laws, hence the need for a HOA.

[theHandpuppet]

59. Exactly!

Our town's ordinances regulate the number of pets one can have per household; they also cover everything from having to clear your sidewalk of snow within 24 hours to prohibiting junk vehicles on your property to keeping your grass from turning into a rat's nest. Most people would find all the regulations they need right in the city or county ordinances.

[mbperrin]

17. I really doubt that it shows on the property transfer that

a $150 fee can turn into a $2000 fee very quickly. No more than our county here will inform you that attorney's and collections fees can turn $300 worth of taxes due one year into $8900 the next year, and no payment arrangements allowed - if you can't pay the whole amount, then the fees and attorney's fees and interest and charges just keep going. In two years, you can owe $15,000 (oh and don't think about a second mortgage, cause when they filed a lien on the property, that ruined your ability to borrow against it).

Then when the whole thing is seized and sold, the brother-in-law of the attorney working for the county can buy it for half the taxes due and take it over as a rental property!

This example is not theoretical. (Oh, why late on the $300? The homeowner died and so the county never bothered to see why their mail was returned. By the time the heirs thought about county taxes (cause the schools, city, water district, hospital district, and junior college districts all managed to get their address changes done), it was the $8900 level and climbing.

[mulethree]

19. Heres a fix

HOA or tax collector have some lien right to the property to collect past due. Property can't be sold without paying them off.

Take that lien to the bank, bang you got a line of credit collateralized by the property or lien, and you have your money - borrowed from the bank - and the only "collection cost" is 10% interest instead of 1000% collection costs. One bank deal probably sufficing for the whole HOA or tax authority.

I am especially peeved, that they hand-delivered $156 for their inflated $120 bill, the association accepted it, and then let the collection company refuse it over $1.50.

I wonder what they expect the reaction to be from the other owners? Fear and prompt payment? Or indignation and outrage that - A. they would do this, B. that their $285,000 houses will only fetch them $70,000 if they ever have to sell them in a hurry?

[mbperrin]

21. 23 lenders told us they could not loan money on a paid for house

with a tax lien, that if the lien were removed, they would look at it. They wouldn't even let us file an application after they found out that a lien was on the property.

[mulethree]

26. This would be the lien-holder borrowing

Don't see why they couldn't do a closing, like they would on a sale or even refinancing. One meeting where they ensure that the lien is released just as they would ensure the old mortgage is released, taxes paid etc. on a house sale.

Of course it might involve the kind of title-search, title insurance costs of a mortgage closing. And it would involve someone representing the taxing authority showing up with the authority to certify the lien released on the spot.

Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what the problem is that would keep so many lenders away from a win-win-win deal.

[mbperrin]

41. The house was seized, sold for $1500 at auction, and the lien satisfied.

It is now a rent house for a relative of a politician here.

There's your win-win; a practically free house for friends of politicians.

[shawn703]

55. They doubled my fees this year

From $200 to $400 a month. Now my fees are pretty close to being half my mortgage payment. They claim they need to make some deck repairs and some other stuff, which of course they wouldn't have to do if they would have done what they were supposed to and maintained the area in the first place. They can't even keep the sidewalks free from ice and snow in the winter like they're supposed to, yet they have no problems taking more money out of our pockets. I'm sorry, but HOA's on CA's are no better than the mafia.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

22. Should not bill paying be the top priority???? To simple huh?

I have a HOA and have never had big issues with them, of course I pay my bills and ON time.

HOA can get out of hand, if you have one ATTEND the meetings to put a kabash on things you dont agree with, to many sheep at these meetings.

[MisterC2003]

23. the gist of your message is ...

So far, so good. Hope it continues that way for you. Everything I've heard about HOAs indicates it probably won't.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

25. They do have some good points

You wont see cars with hoods up and a gang of people wrenching on it.

You wont see god aweful lawn furnishings.

You wont be jumping on the guy next door for music being to loud.

HOA have meetings and discussions, I choose to be involved.

[liberalhistorian]

33. And do you have any idea just how elitist

that sounds? Speaking as someone who until recently had a car that constantly had to have its "hood up" to be worked on, and who doesn't consider her neighbor's lawn furnishings to be any of her damn business, I find that very offensive.

HOA's are incredibly intrusive organizations to have to live under. It's almost like you're just renting an apartment and you have a landlord watching over everything you do and saying what you can and cannot do. I've seen people being sued because they had the wrong fucking houseplants on their porches, for God's sake!!! Now, I'm sorry, but who the hell needs that, especially if you've paid for and own your own damn condo or house? I don't need nosy neighbors and busybody HOA members deciding for me what I can and cannot do and have.

[bleedingheart]

36. but remember that people who choose to live in those developments

moved there because of the HOA's... I don't like to generalize but many of the younger people I know who moved to those neighborhoods did so because they wanted to live in a neighborhood without what they termed as "riff raff"..... now if they want to pay a high fee for that...I say more power to them...however they knew that walking into the agreement. They chose to make that decision.

If someone loses their home over $80 bucks or gets sued because they don't have the right plants outside...well then they should have thought about that before they signed on for the development.

What I think is funny is that it shows that in the end people want variety and they want to spice things up...living in Stepfordville may get kind of boring and too expensive.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

39. Sorry I pay for the right to live on my own terms

If you dont mind looking out at a bunch of loudmouths trying to figure out what wheels look best, how to clean the oil (OR NOT) from the pavement, someones kids friends blocking you in because he is double parked, loud blasting music at all hours, litter on the lawn, grass not mowed, old furniture on the porch etc. etc. etc.

More power to you.

[geniph]

34. One of the worst fights I had with my ex-husband

was when the development we lived in decided to form a HOA and demanded everyone join. They were having neighborhood meetings to discuss it, and my ex-husband was just horrified that I'd go to such meetings and vociferously express my extreme displeasure ("you're making a SCENE!") I maintained (til the day I divorced him and left that neo-yup development behind) that, as there had been no HOA when we purchased, and I'd signed no agreement to join one if one was formed, that they could not impose one on me against my will.

After I left, he knuckled and signed, and had to cough up $50 a quarter so they could tell him what color he could paint his trim and that he couldn't park his own car in his own driveway. :eyes:

Social conformity is fascism. I'm not into it.

[Laughing Mirror]

37. Social conformity is fascism.

Precisely what great thinker, philospher, semiologist Roland Barthes said. In fact, it was his very definition of fascism: l'obligation d'être, the enforced obligation to be like everybody else.

[liberalhistorian]

45. No, they certainly could NOT

force you to join an HOA if one didn't exist when you moved there and if you signed no agreement to join one when you moved there, that's BULLSHIT! And if they claimed that they could "force" you, that's illegal. Now, if it had existed when you moved there and it was understood when you did that everyone had to join, that's a different story. But that wasn't the situation in your case.

That is why I will never, ever, EVER, as I've said before on here, be under the thumb of an HOA.

[On the Road]

38. Sounds Like the HOA in that X-Files Episode

they're lucky a monster didn't come out at night and gobble them up for being late on their dues.

[oneighty]

53. Yes!

I happened to see that a few days ago on SciFi.

Cool. Conform or die!

180

[Missy Vixen]

40. Okay, here's the devil's advocate view

>"Now, months after moving in, they've lost their home to a wealthy buyer of foreclosed properties and been ordered off the property over what started as $120 in back association dues"<

My husband is a former homeowner's association board member. I assisted the board with correspondence and wrote a community newsletter for five years as well. We got involved with the board for some oversight of the -- shall we say, nazi-wannabes? -- that originally composed the HOA.

The vast majority of rule enforcement at our townhouse development were for health and safety issues. We also spearheaded the drive to go after the developer and his insurance company to pay for repairs of serious construction issues.

For every nightmare (obviously unfair and should be illegal,) case like the above, there's a case like the woman who lived around the corner from us. She didn't pay her homeowner's dues for five years. The development paid fairly significant monthly fees for water bills and for landscaping. (Let's just say that the grounds are very labor-intensive and nobody knew how much they'd cost to maintain till we all had to do it ourselves.) The woman I mention wasn't paying her bills because she didn't have the money. She refused to pay because she felt she didn't have to. When she bought the home, her contract stated the dues, that she was responsible for paying them, and she was legally bound by signing the paperwork.

The board tried everything. They talked with her multiple times about the issue. They put her on a payment plan. The last resort was to bring in an attorney and go after her house. She sold.

While I understand that there are those who will believe that we're fascist and cruel, here's a question: Why should the rest of those living there subsidize her, just because she didn't want to pay her share of the upkeep? Not being able to afford it is a completely different story.

We are living in a development now that was supposed to be a HOA. We want our property values to remain high. Since it's a single-family development, the dues were solely to have the common areas landscaped -- $15.00 per month. There are people here whose houses are worth $350,000, and they refuse to pay the $15, so the HOA was disbanded. Yaaaay, everyone says. Wait a minute, though.

We've had awful problems with our neighbors and intractable, constant, absolutely annoying NOISE. Go to the HOA, right? Nope. They're non-existent. We call the police. We'll probably have to either hire an attorney and sue under the "quiet enjoyment of our property" laws (which will keep us in court forever and cost a mint; the neighbor's father is a trial lawyer,) or spend $30,000 on moving. We'll also have to disclose the issues with the neighbors to any potential buyers so we don't get sued later. Cool, hm?

Some HOA's are evil, but sometimes, homeowners need the added protection of having one.

Julie

[sendero]

60. I see a civil suit...

... coming, one in which it will be tough for the HOA to justify this action to a jury. Could be fun!

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

46. Dog turds are another good reason for HOA

Guy moves up from Florida with two beautiful dogs, a lab and saint benard, the very first night I step on a dog turd as big as a log. A few days later I see him out with the dogs and let him know he is supposed to bag up the crap.

Well thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard of??

I asked him if he signed the HOA and he said sure but he never saw that and will NEVER scoop poop.

A call to the HOA and bringing it up at the meeting got him to start doing it.

[alarimer]

48. sad

I would never live in a place with one of these associations or wtih restrictive covenants. I think they are unAmerican. I prefer funky, eclectic neighborhoods where people can paint their houses purple if they feel like it. Most suburbs are so damn BORING. All the houses look exactly like every other one and they are about 2 feet apart. YUCK. Americans are such conformists though (most of the people I know are anyway). Gotta be just like the Jones' down the street. How completely unimaginative.

[Missy Vixen]

49. Do you own your home?

>Americans are such conformists though (most of the people I know are anyway). Gotta be just like the Jones' down the street. How completely unimaginative.<

It's not a case of "conforming". It's a case of keeping your investment.

If someone wants to paint their house purple with pink polka-dots, more power to them. They can buy somewhere else than the HOA.

Everyone has different "taste". What's attractive to one is unattractive to someone else, and unfortunately, the market continues to prove that HOA's are attractive to homebuyers.

Julie

[depakid]

57. I'd question that assumption

in many places (possibly Contra Costa County) most of the affordable homes are in planned unit developments where these sort of CCR's were put in place by developers who aren't (and weren't) particularly worried about market conditions. People either purchase a home subject to the restrictive covenants or they are pretty well stuck renting. While I agree that property values are important, they can amply be protected by less intrusive (and less expensive) city/county ordinances.

[Shadder]

61. Yes!

I could not agree more!

[JPace]

50. This board has been enlightening about

homeowners associations, but it
also disappoints me. I had thought
that someday I might choose to live
in a condo where I would have closer
neighbors and no outside chores. As one
gets older it seems a viable alternative
to being alone in house. I was hoping
that associations would serve the people
but this board sounds like they are
predators just waiting to take advantage
of undefended people.

Does anyone have something nice to say
about living in condo's with associations?

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

52. You can send for any HOA rules

If serious on buying go to them directly, NOT all are horror stories.

[eyeswideopened]

51. They Can't do this... It happened to a woman in Texas

This happened to a woman in Texas and they had to give her the home back. I used to be on the board of a homeowners association and I think Texas has ruled against them on foreclosures.