Clinton's advice to Democrats falls flat

[UpInArms]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/25/cap.grape.clinton/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- What are the chances Democrats will follow the advice of former President Clinton and back off their criticism of the Bush administration's pre-war claim about Iraq's nuclear ambitions?

How about slim to none?

When Clinton talked to CNN's Larry King and said it was time for fellow Democrats to move on -- "Everybody makes mistakes" -- his fellow Democrats didn't exactly follow suit.

<snip>

[meegbear]

1. Actually, I'm glad ...

I love the Big Dog and while I believe he's smart in not yelling ATTACK! I don't think the Dems should hold back.

The golden rule: Do unto others ....

[PurityOfEssence]

17. He should have just said nothing

That wouldn't have hurt him in the least.

If he, of all people, doesn't realize what these people are positioning themselves for, then I hope some of his enablers just catch on.

There's a time to stand one's ground, and there's a time to know when to let things ride. Fine, maybe it goes forth, and the nazis have to snivel about how "...but...Bill said...", but it hurts the cause. This administration is dangerous, and the only way to get rid of them is to confront them.

All the messages I've heard about how genuinely nice he is and how he doesn't bear a grudge or attack are all well and good, but that's not how you deal with muggers. It is NOT going to hurt the Democrats to seem partisan here, the very nature of the crimes are so huge that the denial of them reminds one of their magnitude. If it disgusts some, it will also enlighten and enrage many on the issues.

I'm tired of the third way. There's a difference between compromise and surrender. I want the Clinton who vetoed things.

Sadly, he's still concerned with "viability". It would be nice for once to see an elder statesman really stand for something and not worry about being liked or allowed into the game.

He did many good things, and he's a great campaigner and a decent human being, but this is the last straw for this dromedary.

It was not a devilishly clever, Rove-like move beyond our understanding, it was stupid and unnecessary.

[lastliberalintexas]

49. Yep

A little too worried about the proposed repeal of the 22nd amendment. He's still campaigning- and some here think he's actually doing this for Hillary! :eyes:

He should know better than anyone exactly what repubs would have done if these lies were told by Dems! Better to say nothing at all.

[dArKeR]

65. 3 days previously Hastert called Clinton close to a treasonous idot and

blamed Clinton for everything that had happened bad in America under Bush' pResidency. (Me The Press).

'Doesn't bear a grudge'. Bullshot in Clinton doesn't now how dirty the repukes are by now. I supported Clinton to the end for 11 years and he does this just when the Dems. are starting to get together and stand up for America. Go to China Clinton's and let some honest people take over the Democratic Party!

There is only 1 explanation; Bush paid off Clinton with a political IOU to be used when Hillary tries to run in 2008. Corruption!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

2. Not everyone's

"mistakes" (He was surely being generous) cost hundreds of lives and billions of dollars. Nail the bastards!

[JohnKerryAZ04]

3. Actually it doesn't

I think he was right on the money in fact.

We need to stop this crap of talking about something that happened back in Febuary and instead offering to the American Public of where we want to be in Feb 2004.

We need to offer new ideas, but old critisizims.

albeit, its important to understand what happened, you cannot dwell on it too much or else you end up with a year like 2002, where we lost the Senate.

[Kahuna]

4. I'm sure you agree with Clinton. He's trying to protect Kerry...

and the rest of the pink tutu dems who voted for the Iraq Resolution including his wife. I say, too bad for all of them. They are not leaders. They are followers. We need leaders who lead. They all failed us, the country and the world.

[JohnKerryAZ04]

48. Actualllly ....

I am a "pink tutu" dem. I've been arrested in Vancouver for the WTO protest, then in Seattle, and nearly arrested here in Phoenix for the Anti-War protest. I have a longer FBI file that most of you could ever want ... so I take SERIOUS insult to your tone sir!

John Kerry is more of a leader than the other 8 could ever dream to be in the brightest parts of their brains. He's a 2 term VOLUNTEER Vietnam VET after graduating from a Ivy League School-Yale.

He has the Silver Star, Bronze Star and 3 purple hearts!

"They all failed us"?

I'm an anti-war protester for John Kerry, thank you VERY MUCH SIR and he didn't fail us, Spineless democrats who line up behind Howard Dean , while lying to the American public saying he is the anti-war candidate.

Al Sharpton, Dennis Kucinich are anti-war candidates. Dean was against the RESOLUTION for war, BIG FREAKIN DIFFERENCE!

So simmer down sir, and don't take such a condesending tone with me, unless you too have shed blood for this country?

[Eloriel]

55. Dean was -- and still is -- against THIS war

And how dare you saunter in here and try to make things up about him?

As for your candidate, well. He's become one of the old men who send young men to die for war, the very kind of politician he once protested against.

And still he wants to bring up his Vietnam experience with every breath. He has DEFILED his Vietnam experience AND his anti-Vietnam war protest experience.

The more I see of him, the more I actively dislike him for his betrayal of what HE once held dear, for his betrayal of this country and its people, for his hand in the needless destruction of a sovereign nation and the deaths of thousands of civilians.

If YOU care so much about your candidate, you can get him to repudiate his war vote, apologize the the world, Iraqis and Americans, and start calling relentlessly for impeachment. That is the only condition under which I will vote for him for anything, ever.

A little earlier this afternoon I watched a piece of Katie Couric's profiles of the young men who have died in this vile war of aggressive imperialism. Young, fresh faces who believed they were doing the right thing for their country, totally mindless, probably, that their country was not doing the right thing for them. I lost it. I cannot, I will not support anyone who voted for this war. I will not betray them further by supporting anyone who is responsible for their needless, senseless deaths.

Eloriel

[JohnKerryAZ04]

57. NO he is NOT

STOP LYING!

He is against the RESOLUTION FOR "THIS" WAR that was back in Febuary.

He SAID that he has 3 criteria:

1. Imminent threat
2.Multi-lateral
3.exit strategy

THAT IS NOT ANTI-WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dennis Kucinich is anti-war.

Dean is NOT against war, like his supporters and some of my fellow anti-war protesters think.

And honestly, i won't even honor your slimly little quip, you don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same parahraph as John Kerry!

Oh, and all those dead Iraqis?

WHAT about all those Poor dead palestians that die each day?

Or how about the 3,000 dead my fellow New Yorkers?

or about the millions Saadam Hussein has killed in the years that AMERICA put him in power?

think about that before you go off like a little yelping dog

[tomp]

66. you're nothing but an arrogant and pompous...

...blusterer. i haven't seen such abject malicious spinning from a purported democrat in a long time. your attitiude qualifies you (if not identifies you) as a bush supporter. although it would not surprise me that such talk comes from a kerry supporter. he's desperate to avoid following dean's assault against bush.

[johnkerryArizona04]

71. "And you are nothing but absolute idiot"

I have seen more forethought from a raging bull.

And Im a Bush supporter?

Really, where were YOU during the war protests!

Where were YOU in Seattle!?

HUH?

And Kerry is the only one out there offering a vision, not just firebrand speeches.

Dean is a liar, period. He is a DLC Governor who has decided to abandon all good sense and line up with the 15% vocal minority of the party to try and highjack the rank and file democrats from their party.

And my attitude?

My blustery attitude comes from one person: John McCain. Something Dean could only hope to be one day.

[JI7]

5. right, we can do both

i think clinton's point was the democrats should do something more than just that. we need to give them a reason to vote for us and not just to say why they should vote against bush. this is kind of what happened in 2002. people didn't come out to vote. it's not that bush did so well, it's that people didn't come out to vote. this changed next month in louisiana when landrieu ran a better campaign.

[diplomats]

6. I agree

I don't think he expected the Democrats to back off (he was making a general statement), and I'm glad they're not.

[trapper914]

69. I agree completely

'nuff said.

[papau]

7. I agree - but GOP rewrites history since no media dares to correct

at which point Dem points are "out of context" and future solutions are "not needed - everything is fine" and we lose.

[JohnKerryAZ04]

50. Let them make that point!

Thats the exact point G.W Senior tried to make, and Clinton and Carville painted it as if he didn't care.

[w13rd0]

10. Time to build a better teacup?

A year like 2002? Where all those that supported Bushie boy spent a couple months trying to reach around by means of their south pole to pull the knife from their backs? Yeah, ok, whatevah...

[study_war_no_more]

19. pass the soma

If the war in Iraq was illegal then the civilian casulties are not collateral damage they are murder take the six year old girl shot in the head and forgotten while uday and huday were added to the deaths tu-day.
DLC needs to declare themselves republican and join the other neomorlocksin their cancerous policies.
LIHOP MIHOP we all hop-e :bounce:

[MrPrax]

31. Which Little Child Was Shot Again

The one in Iraq or the one in the Gaza Strip
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/25/international0907EDT0534.DTL
*********
(07-25) 06:07 PDT JERUSALEM (AP) --

An Israeli soldier in the West Bank shot and killed a 4-year-old Palestinian boy and wounded two other children Friday in the latest violent incident to break the relative calm of recent weeks.

The army called the shooting an accident, but a Palestinian official said the soldier fired unprovoked at a vehicle waiting at a road block.
**********
I think the public is probably missing a lot more

[JohnKerryAZ04]

54. damn straight

[JohnKerryAZ04]

51. Oh gwad, not another sad attack on the DLC

When you are going to realize that the DLC is a policy council and the NDN { New Democrat Network } is the PAC that gets involved and is run by completely different people.

If you want to attack the NDN, then start with Simon Rosenberg, not Al From.

[PurityOfEssence]

26. I completely disagree; another inane surrender from the DEMOEBAS

We lost the '02 election because Junior ginned up a war to get his way and eat up time before the election, and just when the Dems thought they could get that out of the way and take the initiative, he jammed the HS issue down their throats.

Junior said Dems were so poisoned by special interests (lazy, greedy unions, booga-booga) that they were willing to let us be vulnerable. The Dems hemmed and hawed, but nobody stood up and told everyone that it was actually Junior's hate-filled greedneed to destroy workers' protections and his willingness to terrorize America unless he could fuck the workers of the country. Junior will let you be killed unless you let him cheat workers, fire them at will, and cow them to such a degree that HS will be his personal Gestapo. Nobody had the spine to say that, and when you're dealing with haters, you have to slam them personally.

What's Clinton's reward from the right for giving them cover? The next day, Rumsfeld glibly blames intelligence failures on the downsizing of the intelligence services "in the 90s". Clinton caused 9-11. Whenever you hear the term "in the 90s" or "the excesses of the 90s", they're saying that Democrats destroyed the country. That's what Dick Morris said on The Daily Show ("...well, of course: 9-11...") That's the reward you get from these dicks.

You don't have to fight all the time. Sometimes you can enjoy the privilege of elder-statesmanship and just BE QUIET. The net effect of this is bad.

Learn a lesson from the Republicans: you have proxies do the slamming, so your candidate stays above the fray. Clinton REALLY blew it on this one.

[JohnKerryAZ04]

52. No the Dems acted like little children, like you are sounding like

The New Dems acted high and mighty and ignored the activists and the activists ran around making themselves feeling better that they forgot the rank and file, which is more moderate than the activists

Pretty simple to me ...

2002 was about lack of leadership from the State Parties, WHO CONSIST of the DNC.

I hope you guys do realize that YOU elect the DNC when you choose your committee people each year at your State Democratic Conventions?

New Mexico and Arizona did just fine, in fact we elected Democrats while the rest of you "boneheads" , sorry for the term, but its true, got whipped like a bunch of whipping boys.

I'm trying to explain to you guys how to win, HOW WE WON, and you guys act like fools, prognosticating and making yourselves feel all warm and fuzzy cause you can get 3,000 people to a rally.

3,000 people at a Dean rally is all nice and good, but if it doesn't materlize into the 2 million votes you need state-wide, it won't mean jack *#$&

[PurityOfEssence]

58. Boy, do you have the wrong guy

Incidentally, I'm an Edwards supporter, and although VERY anti-war, that's not a huge litmus test for me because of the lies used to sell it to those who voted.

Don't shadow box with your opponents, assuming that those who annoy you are also members of a faction you dislike. That's the kind of "them" thinking that mobilizes anger at fundamentalist to go after secularists.
There are plenty of Dean supporters to go thump on here, I'm sure you can find them.

It's not childish to stand and fight when being accused, in effect, of treason. When the President has no compunction to cynically use legislation to get through his true agenda to fuck the workers, and has the gall to turn that hate-filled maneuvering to additional advantage to boot, I want someone to speak out. If this man isn't tarred as a liar and user of biblical proportions, it's going to nigh impossible to get rid of him.

You don't play nice with these people. It's failed the Dems. They've failed because they didn't stand their ground. Ashcroft should not have been confirmed, and it's just gotten worse since then.

On the other hand, I know it's hard to fight against a gangster who claims the high ground of patriotism for ever greasy theivery he desires, and I try to give Daschle some breaks. Gephardt doesn't deserve any, though.

Jim Hightower said it best: "the only things in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos."

It's not either/or; life mostly exists in the vast and subtle grey. This was just silly on Clinton's part. You don't have to answer questions. It's not necessarily going to show the Dems as relentless partisans if they manage to show the convincing proof that absolutely exists. Junior is a thief, a fraud, a greedhead with daddyvengeance, a psychotic fundamentalist gangster and a dolt. Any version of an effective way of getting rid of him has to have a "personality" component to it. It's stupid how people are scared of these idiots. They WILL destroy you.

[johnkerryArizona04]

72. laff, Edwards is more DLC than Kerry ever could be

So get ready to join the Armadillos my friend.

[MUAD_DIB]

27. Explian this to me then.

talking about something that happened back in Febuary...

Why do you make this sound as if it is now acceptable to invade a Sovereign nation based upon L I E S ? You make it sound as is this criminal offense happened 20 years ago.

I agree that the Dems need to offer fresh ideas, but let's be honest please. The Repugs would be screaming from the highest mountain top (provided by courtesy of FAUX, CNN and MSRNC) if this was Al Gore who had lied about, and took us into and unprecedented war with another nation with false information ...and rightfully so.

Since the media is absent in their duties as the fourth estate it would be disaterous to walk away from the truth: to keep demanding that the truth be revealed.

Why are you be intent on burying something of this magnitude (beyond the fear that it will hurt us as in 2002??), when you should know full well that the POTUS (god I hate him so) will try to bury the Dems with every cheap trick imaginabe.

The volumes of evidence is that this clown and cheif is not only untrustworthy, on countless levels, to act on our behalf but has also openly lied to the American populous (and to the world), destroyed our credibility abroad, presided over the worst financial drop since Hoover, lost more jobs than any other POTUS since Hoover, and has the reponsibility of the deaths of hundreds of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

...and you wish to move on?

Explain that to me please.

[JohnKerryAZ04]

53. Let me level with you "sir"

"if it is now acceptable to invade a Sovereign nation based upon L I E S ?"

I'll support a President to invade, carpet bomb, and nuke out of existance ANYONE that threatens our freedom.

Was our freedom truely being threatened?

Its coming out that it may not have been, so Georgy lied to us and for that, he may be elected. Thus another victory for Democracy. Yippie! :hippie:

Make no mistake, i was out there protesting the war in Phoenix and I'm an avid WTO protester. I don't like these type of multi-lateral institutions anymore than the next liberal.

What Clinton was saying and What I SAID is that we cannot just waste all our time on pointing it out, hell if you want to make it simple, it needs to be 50\50 because simple farmers and simple people that have no political background want to know one thing, what went wrong and if its soooo wrong, WHAT are YOU going to do about it.

Simple.

[tomp]

67. not simple, simple-minded.

more exposures of an imposter. kerry should be ashamed of you.

[johnkerryArizona04]

73. simple-minded is refusing to answer my points

Nuff said. You've proven your idiocy.

[JaneQPublic]

8. Clinton "made a mistake" to say what he did on "Larry King"

But it's okay. The rest of us Democrats have moved on.

[qanda]

9. For those who say, "Move on!"

I suggest they take their own advice. As for me, I am comfortable right where I am, mad as can be and ready to take my country back.

[foo_bar]

16. you mean...

http://moveon.org ?

[twilight]

59. hey I'm with ya!

I am so disgusted, so fed up! How much more of this insanity can we take?

To think that the BFEE has dipped so low as to show dead people with their brains blown out on television is really the final straw. That is what it took for me to say, 'that's enough'! :grr:

I will 'move on' when I am ready to and that won't be until America once again belongs to the American people and not a bunch of fat cat $$$$ chasing SOBs!

And that includes many if not most of the candidates running for president!!!!

:kick:

[indigo11153]

11. total spin

I was listening at the time and Clinton never said "move on." The media missed the big point. Clinton probably took out Iraq's weapons (if they had any left) while he was in office.

[Cha]

12. This is some Good News for today!!

We've been discussing this hot and heavy on DU2...and I'm glad they aren't taking "big dog's" advice. I know I'm not!

[young_at_heart]

14. Big dog lost my support .....he should have had impulse control

I don't care how smart he is....his personal lust has cost us dearly!

[indypaul]

13. Have supported the

Clintons for some time now, monetarily and physically, but
must remind him it is not a "mistake" when human lives and
the history of this nation are ignored with respect to our
previous international positions of premptive actions against
another soverign nation. Particularly when those actions are
done in conflict with and against the advise of other allied
nations. These are more accurately called incompetence in my book.
Mistakes can and may be forgiven. Incompetence and arrogance
cannot. I would hope WJC and HRC would be able to recognize
the difference.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluedeminredstate]

18. Bill and "Willard"...

and I'm assuming you don't mean Willard Scott or the movie. You'll learn quickly that President Clinton is highly respected around here regardless of what he does with his wee wee in his spare time. Might want to spend a little more time here before attacking the Big Dog.

[study_war_no_more]

22. nafta

is not a policy a worker can respect. Save your praise and support for someone who deserves it.

[bluedeminredstate]

25. Criticize his policies

but honestly, how much does his dick have to do with what he said about Bush's "mistake.?"

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[twilight]

61. NAFTA & the welfare acts ... both of them!!!

These two reprehensible acts of Clinton's I will never forget. Sorry 'Big Dog' lovers ... I frankly never particularly was 'in love' with Bill. I thought he did a lot of good things, but the BAD things he did really were rotten and they still stink today!

:puke:

[Rose Siding]

23. "us"?

You don't speak for me.

Six million new jobs in the first 2 years of his admin, taxes cut for low income Americans, the largest deficit reduction plan in history.

Read up:

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/additional.html

See, none of that tells me he "only cares about one thing". You are reading from a different set of morals.

[robbedvoter]

43. Us? You and I have anything in common?

Go back to your obsession.

[Malva Zebrina]

20. I don't think it is wise to mythologize a man

no matter how much he is admired. When adored or made into a myth,one's thinking and emotional process is altered and one day is bound to come down--sometimes very hard. IT kind of morphs into magical thinking- I liked Clinton, but never thought he could do not wrong. Now, my respect for him has dwindled--several times today I heard it mentioned how even Clinton thinks we should forget about the big lies. There you go--Clinton decides when the debate ends by throwing the monkey wrench into the fray. Clinton says it is over--then it is over--just like Bush said it is over. That smells bad. .

[CWebster]

24. It's time

for someone to show the Clintons the door.

[wndycty]

21. Everyone makes mistakes. . .da Big Dawg sure did!

He is still my man, but he was wrong on this one.

[PurityOfEssence]

30. That's the kind of response we could use more of around here

Life is nuanced; living with qualified feelings is necessary. Not liking the actions of an individual at times does not mean you hate them.

I'm really tired of everyone defending "their guy" in the face of silliness. The bashers and the protectors are equally to blame, and it's nice to hear a voice who can live with a little complexity.

Thankey kindly.

[CWebster]

34. Actually, quite honestly

I was quite impressed with some of your "bash-like" posts earlier in the thread.

;-)

[PurityOfEssence]

37. I was feelin' sorta Foghorn Leghornish this morning

Remember how he'd figure out the extend of the dog's leash, then lift up his tail, wail away on him with a board and then retire beyond the line?

Sometimes things need to be stirred up a bit.

Clinton's probably exasperated me more than any major politician in my lifetime. He's not perfect, and if he's genuinely supernice, it's a huge liability in his chosen field. If this is his real opinion, then he needs to spend some time with the loved ones of the 10,000 unnecessary Iraqi dead and atone for his obliviousness. If it's personally motivated, he needs to be hammered into the ground like a tent peg, because it's not going to help his image any and it's hurting the world to let Machiavellian adventurism go unchecked.

I'm not sure who wrote the line, but it was delivered by Groucho Marx: "I'd horsewhip you, if I had a horse."

[newsjunkie]

28. I love Bill Clinton

For all he has done for us...but I think 'mistakes' was a bad way to describe what Bush has done. This was willful deception,and he MUST PAY for it! Sometimes Bill is just too nice for his own good.O8)
Up till now he's been very critical of Bushs foreign policies.I wonder what made him say this. If he had lied to us like Bush has,the GOP would've had his head on a stick on the WH lawn.:shrug:

[JustinCredible]

29. Actually

Even though I like Clinton... all politicians play politics.

Possibly only hours after his statement, there was a headline about Gennifer Flowers pressing conspiracy charges against Senator Clinton.

I'm guessing Clinton was trying to detract some attention from that.

[tomp]

32. anybody who likes bob dole (clinton)...

...has a screw loose AND is anti-democratic. i remember dole pushing for the illegal counting of illegal military votes in florida. that was hysterically funny, wasn't it, bill? what a guy, that bob dole!

funny, carville and shrum, e.g. are on a different page from our own du pro-clinton pundits. i wonder who knows more about clinton, carville or sgr2.

[MODemocrat]

33. Bush didn't make a mistake; he LIED

As much as I like President Clinton, that statement didn't set well with me. I see no need for him or any other democrat take Bush's side.
Let the chips fall where they may. Bush is a habitual liar

[GoddessOfGuinness]

35. I agree...and I really don't get Bill's defense of Dumbyass...

It makes me wonder who's threatened him, and with what.

[gully]

36. I couldn't agree more.

Clinton was a good President, who made many mistakes... This is but one more for him. I hope he redeems himself. I can't imagine letting this slide. The Repukes are using his statements to defend BUSH?!

[TacticalPeek]

39. no traction...

I've noticed that reThug spinners are barely touching that "defense" yesterday or today. Any time they want to trot it out they MUST bring up the SOTU. They're wising up. And when they bring in his remarks, along comes "Bush's MISTAKE", Desert Fox destruction of WMD, focusing on the many hot Bush problems today, etc. I'd be glad to chat with Ed Gillespie about the remarks as long as he could stand it. Notice his sweat on tweety's show last night?

[ChillEB]

38. You're all looking at this in only one way...

Clinton's statement may have been intended to put the idea into people's minds that BUSH WAS RESPONSIBLE. Think about it: He said BUSH'S MISTAKE. Bushco has expended political capital trying to DEFLECT the blame from bush himself, remember? Remember, Bill IS kinda placing the blame directly ON BUSH here. By calling it a
'mistake', Big Dog is assailing his 'infallible' image (of course, he is considered quite differently here at DU, but many Americans keep giving * the benefit of the doubt over and over because the media has erected an image of him as being this infallible, perfect, and virtuous 'leader'). Not only that, but he did raise the possibility that his 1998 attacks were successful in wiping out the remainder of the unaccounted-for WMD - something WE have all considered, but that many in America may not have realized...

Not saying I'm HAPPY about it, but it may not be the quite the 'betrayal' that many here seem to be considering it to be...

[TacticalPeek]

"betrayal"?

of course not...

if he had not forced himself into the doorway, braced himself and stood there for eight years, we would now be the United States of Oil.

and it ain't over yet!

[Justice]

40. Read The CNN Transcript of What Clinton Said

If you read the transcript, Clinton didn't say "move on" His actual words were not all that bad. He probably could have said what he said better (I like the way Wesley Clark talks about the 1998 bombing more than Clinto just described it), but he did say (i) Bush made a mistake (ii) Bush admitted his mistake (iii) Condy and the White House knew what they had done, (vi) mistakes are bound to happen and (vi) Bush has to focus on what is in front of him - post war Iraq plus Afghanistan and N. Korea. Clinton questioned whether we could do it. If Clinton had come out and nailed Bush for this, can you imagine what the press would have done? What Clinton did was fuel the democrats on more - as we had a chance to say once again how Bush was so wrong. We have to stand up for ourselves, and not expect Bill Clinton to carry the entire burden of the Democratic Party on his shoulders.


By the way, the Larry King show on Bob Dole is being rebroadcast on Sunday July 27

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0307/22/lkl.00.html

<snip>
"KING: President, maybe I can get an area where you may disagree. Do you join, President Clinton, your fellow Democrats, in complaining about the portion of the State of the Union address that dealt with nuclear weaponry in Africa?

CLINTON: Well, I have a little different take on it, I think, than either side.

First of all, the White House said -- Mr. Fleischer said -- that on balance they probably shouldn't have put that comment in the speech. What happened, often happens. There was a disagreement between British intelligence and American intelligence. The president said it was British intelligence that said it. And then they said, well, maybe they shouldn't have put it in.

Let me tell you what I know. When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions.

I mean, we're all more sensitive to any possible stocks of chemical and biological weapons. So there's a difference between British -- British intelligence still maintains that they think the nuclear story was true. I don't know what was true, what was false. I thought the White House did the right thing in just saying, Well, we probably shouldn't have said that. And I think we ought to focus on where we are and what the right thing to do for Iraq is now. That's what I think.
<snip>

KING: What do you do, Mr. President, with what's put in front of you?

CLINTON: Well, here's what happens: every day the president gets a daily brief from the CIA. And then, if it's some important issue -- and believe me, you know, anything having to do with chemical, biological or nuclear weapons became much more important to everybody in the White House after September the 11 -- then they probably told the president, certainly Condoleezza Rice, that this is what the British intelligence thought. They maybe have a difference of opinion, but on balance, they decided they should leave that line in the speech.

I think the main thing I want to say to you is, people can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks...

DOLE: That's right.

CLINTON: ... of biological and chemical weapons. We might have destroyed them in '98. We tried to, but we sure as heck didn't know it because we never got to go back in there.

KING: Yes.

CLINTON: And what I think -- again, I would say the most important thing is we should focus on what's the best way to build Iraq as a democracy? How is the president going to do that and deal with continuing problems in Afghanistan and North Korea?

We should be pulling for America on this. We should be pulling for the people of Iraq. We can have honest disagreements about where we go from here, and we have space now to discuss that in what I hope will be a nonpartisan and open way. But this State of the Union deal they decided to use the British intelligence. The president said it was British intelligence. Then they said on balance they shouldn't have done it. You know, everybody makes mistakes when they are president. I mean, you can't make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in awhile. The thing we ought to be focused on is what is the right thing to do now. That's what I think.
<snip>

[crissy71]

45. a sticky wicket indeed

ex-presidents aren't supposed to be (and haven't been to my knowledge) too critical of who's in office, and I think if Big Dog had risen to the bait the media would have gone into full Post-Wellstone-Memorial mode and the issue might have been sidetracked.

I think he definitely wants the issue to keep biting Little Boot's ass and this was the best he could do. He did keep saying that * "made a mistake", which he probably thought was as aggressive as he could get - keep in mind that Big Dog is as skilled politically as anyone out there.

[NNN0LHI]

68. Yep. 10 minute was spent on this story on Hardball last night

The people on were discussing how odd it was for Hillary to dissagree with Bill on this. She wants an investigation. Had Bill have not said what he did when he did there would have been Ø minutes devoted to the story of Bush's mistake/lie that has caused thousands of casualties. All we would have heard about would have been the video of Oozy and Coozy all night on that show. The media just can't write this story off as all partisan bickering now as they wanted to do so bad after what Bill said. It kept it this in the news even with some other very huge stories that normally would have blown this one out of the news cycle. And I don't see how that can be good for Bush.

Don

[shrike]

42. read "The Clinton Wars"

Blumenthal writes of Saddam's WMD as though it were a fact. Everyone in that bubble, including Clinton, seems to have taken the WMD for granted. As I recall, Clinton didn't exactly oppose this war. Maybe he made his statement as a way to save face.

[Catherine Vincent]

44. I still love Clinton but he deserves some type of punishment.

I'll be the first to volunteer to publically spank him.:D

[buddhamama]

46. good !

we deserve our voices heard and it is about damn time.

[NNN0LHI]

47. Wonder if the story of Bush making a "mistake" that caused so many deaths

...would have even had a mention anywhere in the news today if Clinton did not say what he did with all of the videos of dead Arabs being flashed on all of the channels today to report on?

Don

[Romberry]

56. It was bad advice.

Big Bill may not be as smart as I thought he was. Did eight years of the witch hunt teach him nothing? Playing nice with the Republicans doesn't pay. They just look at you as naive and use your "niceness" to screw you the first chance they get...

[Kurovski]

60. Who says irony can't be sweet?

Or even outright adorable?

Why shouldn't Clinton be gracious? Three-quarters of America will take care of the maladministration for its "mistakes".

Ex-Presidents are generally supposed to play nice.

[goforit]

62. This guy is looking bad one too many times!....

He is really turning out to be disappointing many times over.

He has lost his fiber!!!

REALLY SAD!!!

Oh well....off to the new kid on the block!!!

[DemonFighterLives]

63. Clinton did a good job as president

Coming to the defense of the Crime Family didn't seem right and wasn't what democrats were looking for. Maybe some of the stories about OKC bombing and drug running operations are not all bogus. I really like Clinton, but whatever he is helping to cover for is not good for america and I hope he has a good motive.

[knight_of_the_star]

64. This is exactly what he wants people to do

He knows that the only people who trust him on any level are here, his message was aimed at the American population. You have to remember, the American people did NOT trust him very much, so in a sense he is doing reverse psychology to ge the public involved. It is very subtle, he knows people don't trust him so this will cause people to pay CLOSER attention to the situation at the expense of his credibility, not that he can really do anything else in politics at this point unless he wants to run for the Senate or something in a few years and people don't trust him anyway so it's not sweat off of his back. He ALSO knew that this would piss of the Left to do EVEN MORE in spite of his apparent treason to attack even harder. So, if you REALLY look at it, what he did was very calulcated with the aim of hurting Bush is a very indirect but brutal fashion. Of course, that might be the exact opposite of what he intends but that is what is most likely to happen knowing the American people's opinion of him as well as the psyche of DU2.

[Justice]

70. Like Tenet "falling on his sword"

I agree with knight_of_the_star.

What Clinton said was very calculated. Sort of like Tenet's original statement where he supposedly took full responsibity for the infamous 16 words in the SOTU -- but on closer examination of the actual words in the statement one could see that Tenet was really saying something else.