Colorado Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins

[pepperbear]

Source: Washington Post

A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere in the nation.

The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should "include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.

The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.

*snip*

But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice president of the group.




Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/12/AR2008071201615.html?hpid=sec-religion

---

[Hekate]

1. The pro-birthers have been working up to this forever. Query--who will check the monthlies?

The idiots don't know that gazillions of unimplanted zygotes are washed away in the menstrual tides of women every month. Women who don't even know they are pregnant -- because, actually, they are not.

And then, of course, there are the first trimester miscarriages, also very common -- and greeted with every emotion from private grief to private relief. Who the hell is going to check up on those? Who will hold the funerals for these "persons"? Will women be prosecuted for having an early miscarriage?

Oh, and the later miscarriages. Jesus Christ, the cruelty to women will be compounded unutterably by the investigation of the death of these "persons" -- because, after all, if it's a complete person with all the rights and protections of an adult, why then its death absolutely must be investigated by the police.

My mother -- may she rest in peace -- was pregnant 7 times in 10 years (1947-1957) and gave birth to 4 living children. She had two early miscarriages and nearly hemmorhaged to death with one of them. She had one full-term baby that died in utero in the final weeks of her pregnancy, and that broke her heart into pieces. Many years later she read that rug cleaner was poisonous and realized that the carbon tetrachloride she used while house-cleaning two weeks before David was born probably killed him, and that broke her heart all over again.

Do these idiots realize -- do they have any concept that a woman such as my mother could be prosecuted for murder under the laws they wish to enact? They themselves -- their own mothers, sisters, wives -- what the hell is wrong with them?

Hekate

:argh: :argh: :argh:

[pipi_k]

27. RE: checking the monthlies, imagine....

how the funeral industry will take off!

Millions of women having monthly funerals for the dead blastocysts...


Little sanitary pad-shaped caskets...

flowers, sad organ music, limousines, the whole bit


special cemeteries set aside for all those tiny dead people...


Funeral directors will become millionaires in less than a year


:7

[snot]

2. oh yeah, we shd jump on this; at least, it plays perfectly into

my view: prior to some point I'm not sure of but certainly well after conception, a human embryo has the I.Q. of a carrot.

By contrast, chimps and gorillas use sign language; dolphins and whales talk to one another.

so, like, let's start protecting life at the top of the consciousness ladder.

[Captain Angry]

3. I am *not* looking forward to the commercials that we'll be seeing on this.

Political commercials are bad enough, they're always full of crap.

These will be tremendously emotional political commercials.

Ugh.

[defendandprotect]

39. What part of Colorado is this religously fanatical . . . how much of it???

Are these Evangelicals?

[Hawkeye-X]

45. Colorado Springs- home of James Dobson and the fundie Focus on the Family

FOCUS ON YOUR OWN DAMN FAMILY!

[NutmegYankee]

67. I know a perfect commercial.

Show a nice looking successful young woman enjoying the day with her friends, then fast forward to her screaming in pain in a hospital as the "voice" explains that she cannot get painkillers due to the risk to the person in her fallopian tube. Then zoom in on the ectopic pregnancy and show her fallopian tube burst open gushing blood everywhere, then zoom back to watch her die and explain that this is exactly the consequence of this law and that women have died from laws just like this in South America.


Emotional, but True!

[HockeyMom]

93. Very good description of my ruptured 5 week ectopic

or as one doctor joked, "It took 20 minutes to find her bladder."

Incidentially, I did see my sonogram. All I saw was blood and guts, no "little baby sucking it's thumb." I suppose under this ruling I would have had to "bury" all that gore and hold a funeral?

[Loudmxr]

4. Oh unintended consequences... the gift that keeps on giving

Here is where this law falls on its face. To give an embryo all rights is pretty expansive. Here is one I betcha they have not thought of.

Among those rights must be citizenship. Now do you have to be conceived in Colo.? Be a resident of Colo.? Or just passing through for the mantle of US citizenship to anoint your baby?

In any case it will be taken to court and thrown out because only the Federal govenment can decide who and when someone becomes a citizen.

And if they come back with the citizenship clause exempted ...well thats hardly equal protection under the law and ergo unconstitutional.

Put down the Bible and pick up a law book.
:spray:

[provis99]

5. Interesting point

Likewise, if a mother is collecting unemployment benefits or welfare, would the fertilized egg be considered as a dependent child? I'd like to see a conservative answer this one.

[ozymandius]

6. Will blastocysts be issued Social Security numbers?

They want to restore legal protection to the unborn. But what about legal liabilities?

If the mother is imprisoned after being found guilty of a crime, will her incarceration amount to a violation of the unborn's rights to due process?

I can see a long list of legal issues arising from this nonsensical ballot initiative.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

9. What about using car pool lanes?

All kidding aside, these "anti-abortion, anti-evolution, anti-science, anti-environment, anti-thinking" people are not going to stop until we all are forced to conform to their very frightened view of the world.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

52. The anti-comprehensive sex ed. groups are the one's that irritate me the most...

Like they think making abortion illegal will keep abortions from happening?? Sex education and contraceptives is how abortions will actually be reduced! How come they fail to see this? It makes me nuts... :banghead:

[pipi_k]

29. Maybe they can apply for

Blastocyst Express...

A new credit card for the unborn.




Also...after a baby is born and grows up, can it sue for damages against its parent for subjecting it to stress or cigarette smoke or something while it was the size of the period at the end of a sentence?



Honest to god...those people are idiots with a capital and boldfaced "I".

Too much free time, not enough constructive things to do. Probably severe mental issues as well.

[mrs_p]

32. the organization that

brought this initiative forward was started by 13 year old girl (now 20). she was sick in bed with the flu and reading a book and watching the 2000 elections on tv and praying simultaneously when the angel of the lord appeared (well, not literally) and inspired her to her life's work... http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9153861

i am definitely not ruling out some kind of mental issues, or at least mental abuse by her parents. to have a life mission at 13?? while some would think it is honorable, i think it a bit delusional.

[AlbertCat]

38. so sad

I clicked your link and read about this 20 year old girl.

How sad. I wonder how many energetic and truly caring people are made just butt-faced stupid by religion and a religious "World View". She doesn't get anything about what conception, development of the fetus, or what makes a person involves. It's that "God does it" non-explanation explanation of everything. It's useless. Just like in Creationism. She's really championing "when does the soul enter the body"... a question as useful as how many angels dance on the head of a pin.

If she really wanted to help the unborn, she's jettison all that lame crap and study to be a doctor or scientist and work to cure and halt birth defects or something. Instead religion has made her spend much time and energy on ignorant, unhelpful useless crap. Like with prayer, religion has made her think she's doing something when actually she's just doing nothing...but making herself feel good. How selfish. How childish.

[pokercat999]

90. On the angels thing: I actually know the correct answer.

ZERO, it's a trick question there is no such thing as an angel, even if that's your nickname bet you aren't.

[Bandit]

33. Or could someone else press charges against the woman for child abuse

If the mother smokes or drinks occasionally or hell even takes a prescription drug. How about if the mother falls down and injures the fetus? Such a can of worms with so many unthought of consequences..

[Hekate]

69. The double-homicide cases (pregnant woman killed in hold-up) have always been about banning abortion

...in every case, no matter the consequences to the woman.

That's been hard for the average person to acknowledge, because it is in fact a terrible crime to kill a pregnant woman and it yanks at our emotions in so many ways. CNN and MSNBC can used up untold hours of air time blathering on about a tragedy of domestic violence like the Laci Peterson case. They stir up people's rawest emotions and leave rational law enforcement and jurisprudence behind.

When the pro-choice community points out the real agenda behind the push for double-homicide charges in such cases it makes us look cold-hearted. To point out the slippery slope makes us look calculating.

Wrong. The ones who are calculating are those who use these cases to gain advantage, one step at a time, to outlaw every form of contraception and every instance of abortion.

Good luck Colorado women. My heart goes out to you.

Hekate

[Greybnk48]

40. It would be pre-blastocyst, the oocyte would be a person,

you don't want to discriminate against the fertilized egg that is unable to divide and multiply.

[depakid]

7. "preborn babies"

Code words for the far right's real objective: birth control.

[JDPriestly]

8. In Caseu v. Planned Parenthood, Sandra Day O'Connor

stated the belief that abortion is legal pretty much without restriction during the very early months of pregnancy. I posted the text here a week or so ago. Maybe less. The woman's right to privacy overrules the baby's rights. This proposition is a little off base. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think the argument is about personhood. The right-wingers hope that they can bring murder charges for abortion if they can only claim that the fetus is a person. I don't think that will work. I believe it is about who has more rights during the early part of pregnancy, the mother who can live without the fetus or the fetus that cannot survive outside the mother's womb. Maybe I am overly optimistic, but I think the right-wingers are barking up the wrong tree on this one.

You can argue that nowadays a fetus almost can be helped to survive outside the mother's womb at virtually every age. But the cost of keeping a fetus that is a few weeks old alive for the entire gestation period outside the natural womb is pretty staggering. I doubt that taxpayers would be willing to pick up the tab. And you can't make a mother pay for it if she can't afford it.

As for adoption -- the number of children in foster homes waiting for better situations is depressing. Adoption is not a realistic alternative.

[MessiahRp]

10. Coming from the state that has the pro-life license plates

Which BTW I think they should be forced to have pro-choice plates as well.



Rp

[minnesota_liberal]

18. I saw one of those for the first time just yesterday

It absolutely lends itself to parody but I'll bet it's illegal to alter your own plate. Mine would read, "RESPECT CIVIL RIGHTS" or "DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION!

[blondie58]

20. now, being in CO, when those plates first came out

it was not too long after the tragedy at Columbine and I don't know if that is what they also intended, but that is what I always took it as.

[mrs_p]

21. just moved here (CO) a year ago

and i took them as being for the columbine tragedy as well (hence the columbine flower)

edit - more on the respect life license plate from http://www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/wrap.asp?incl=registrations/plateindex:

Colorado Revised Statue 42-3-207
The Columbine group special license plate was created to recognize the victims and survivors of the tragic
bombing and shooting at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999. Columbine license plates are issued
to passenger cars, trucks that do not exceed sixteen thousand pounds empty weight, noncommercial or
recreation vehicles and motor homes. A certificate and/or authorization is not required to issue Columbine
license plates.

[TonyClifton]

47. I don't see any reference to anti-abortion on that plate

What makes you think that plate has anything to do with representing anti abortion?

[MessiahRp]

48. Pro-Life groups have been asking for "Choose Life" and "Respect Life" plates

in practically every state. When I see that I don't think of Columbine at all so if that was the purpose, it failed. It makes me wonder if there was a Pro Life group using Columbine as a way to get that plate passed.

Rp

[Hekate]

51. Because it's an anti-choice slogan, and has been for years. nt

[jody]

11. CO's 9 electoral votes up for grabs. Strong turn-out of pro-life voters will probably help McCain nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. And the correct strategy for Democrats would be... what? -nt

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

25. True, But we Dem's in Colorado will be turning out very strong too...

Because we want a Dem in the White House!

[fasttense]

12. They are trying to get the wacko vote

By putting such a ridiculous notion on the ballet, they are trying to get all those crazies who think women are nothing but walking incubators out to vote for McSame. The wacko vote always goes to the republicans.

[MrScorpio]

13. Social Security numbers, getting a job, paying taxes and getting out my house

The sooner for these fertilized egg "persons", the better

[jody]

14. Posts to this thread confirm Bill Clinton's warning about polarization in the DU thread below.

President Clinton warns of growing polarization

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. Whereas the right attitude would be...? -nt

[Zhade]

56. Protecting a woman's right to control her own body is polarizing?

Fine. FUCK those who want to tell women what to do with their bodies. Polarizing? I don't care - fuck them and their religious-infused ignorance.

[jody]

63. Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day! n/t

[Zhade]

65. Thanks for proving MY point - that unity with pro-life idiots is no unity at all.

Once again - FUCK THEM. Women have the right to control their own bodies, and you will NEVER take that right away.

[jody]

68. So "Women have the right to control their own bodies" so it must follow that "society has the right

to control its collective bodies" and refuse to pay taxes to help those who depend upon various charitable programs.

That leaves pro-choice on abortion to each woman and pro-charity up to each taxpayer. :shrug:

[Zhade]

96. What an idiotic argument! Such fools better not expect the fire department or cops to show up, then!

NT!

[Zuiderelle]

58. We've always been polarized on certain subjects. Like this idiotic one.

:eyes:

[jody]

62. Perhaps those on one side of a polarizing issue appear idiotic to those on the other. The notion

of an inalienable right is to protect a minority from the tyranny of a simple majority that would happen in a pure democracy.

[Zuiderelle]

70. I take it that you are against a woman's rights to their own bodies then?

Otherwise, I'm not sure I understand you equating this discussion of abortion to Clinton's warning that we are getting too polarized, as if we haven't always been polarized on this subject.

Actually, I don't really understand your answer at all.

[jody]

71. In #14 I gave a link to a thread discussing Bill Clinton's warning about out nation becoming

polarized. See thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3392884

In #18 of that thread, I said "I agree with Bill Clinton and one need look no further than here on DU where some divisive issues have polarized DUers."

In that thread I said "One example is the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense that SCOTUS ruled is protected by the Second Amendment, see D.C. v. Heller."

Posts attacked that right which as any DUer who has visited the Guns forum knows that RKBA is a divisive, polarizing issue.

I did not intend to debate RKBA there nor abortion in this thread.

I simply wanted to show that among DUers, there are polarizing issues upon which we cannot find a compromise position.

IMO if DUers cannot find compromises among ourselves, it's unlikely we can work with society as a whole and find compromises.

IMO Bill Clinton was correct in his statement re polarization. :shrug:

[Zuiderelle]

72. These subjects are inherently polarizing. And they always have been.

Whether across the aisle, or among our own party, they are polarizing. There is no way in HELL I will ever COMPROMISE on a woman's right to her own body. Period. Polarization be damned.

[jody]

74. There are perhaps six such polarizing issues, each of which has several percent of the voters who

only vote for a candidate who those single-issue voters are convinced will support their pro or con position.

A clever political strategist can quickly gain the support of perhaps 30% or more of the potential voters for a candidate.

That's the facts of presidential campaigns with an electorate of 200+ million of which about 120 million voted in 2004.

Among the 200+ million electorate, perhaps 80 million own forearms.

That's why Obama changed his position from supporting bans on handguns and semiautomatic firearms to one stating “I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms . . .”

Politicians take positions designed to get enough votes to win an election and that means she/he must take positions on polarizing issues that will get them the most votes.

[Zuiderelle]

75. Ok, so your point is that Obama has switched positions on a lot of stuff.

I guess I missed the point of this thread. I thought it was about abortion.

[jody]

76. No, my point is that here on DU, we discuss issues that are polarizing for us. It should not

surprise anyone that an experienced politician like Bill Clinton would say "Underneath this apparent accommodation to our diversity, we are in fact hunkering down in communities of like-mindedness, and it affects our ability to manage difference".

That statement apparently prompted the headline "Bill Clinton warns of growing polarization".

Again, my point is that here on DU we are polarized on several issues.

[UpInArms]

17. I'm not certain why this is a question - the obvious answer to all republicans is

when the articles are incorporation are signed.

:sigh:

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

19. How many anti-choicers does it take to change a lightbulb?

Three. Two to put in the new bulb, and one to claim it was lit the moment they started screwing.

[Jim__]

22. The state cannot override a Constitutional protection.

From Roe v Wade:

3. State criminal abortion laws, like those involved here, that except from criminality only a life-saving procedure on the mother's behalf without regard to the stage of her pregnancy and other interests involved violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which protects against state action the right to privacy, including a woman's qualified right to terminate her pregnancy. Though the State cannot override that right, it has legitimate interests in protecting both the pregnant woman's health and the potentiality of human life, each of which interests grows and reaches a "compelling" point at various stages of the woman's approach to term. Pp. 147-164.

more ...

[defendandprotect]

43. They may be expecting some new Supreme Court ruling . ..????

[mrs_p]

23. this was in the colorado news

weeks ago and i do not know one person who plans on voting for it. even many pro-lifers think it is not a well-written initiative. i will honestly be surprised if it passes.

[iamthebandfanman]

24. they must be worried about colorado

is they are using this to get the conservative voters out.

[defendandprotect]

41. interesting . . . ..

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Another sign of the right's total disrespect for science... ask the common person to make a

decision on something most biologists can't agree on nor prove. The RW will vote based on their 'beliefs'.

[kimmylavin]

28. Damn it, these people piss me off.

"the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks.

NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
Throughout the history of this issue, harsher abortion laws have only made abortion more dangerous.
They HAVE NOT stopped abortions.
They NEVER WILL.

If these people actually cared about "the children", they'd put all of their efforts into making adoption easier, faster and less expensive.

Their true motivation - keep people from using birth control, or punish them for having sex - shows right through shit like this "Human Life Amendment."

[FreepFryer]

30. CORPORATE PERSONHOOD BEGINS AT THE MOMENT OF INCORPORATION.

That's the 'personhood' issue most negatively impacting humanity right now - instead, reproductive rights issues are used to divide us and keep us pliant.

[Zuiderelle]

59. If a corporation is dissolved, should the board of directors/shareholders be accused of murder?

Makes about as much sense.

[crikkett]

31. Are pro-lifers against fertility clinics? Several procedures kill off hundreds of fertilized eggs

[electron_blue]

34. as a matter of fact, many pro-lifers are against fertility clinics, and boycott them.

[crikkett]

82. it hardly hurts anyone when a pro-lifer boycotts a fertility clinic. n/t

[iamjoy]

35. Can A Woman Adopt Out Her Embryo

Can a woman who is pregnant put her embryo up for adoption - from the time of conception?
Here, you take the baby and carry it for nine months.

[defendandprotect]

42. Great point .. . and the "life" they continue to ignore is that of the pregnant female . . .

All damage shall be done to her in the name of "fanatical fetal fantasy" . . . !!!

[Speaker]

79. I don't think the Talibornagain have thought their brilliant plan all the way through.

If a woman goes to a fertility clinic and has 25 eggs fertilized for future implantation, can she then claim 25 deductions on her 1040?

If the above woman goes on public assistance, is she entitled to assistance for 25 children?

Are the Pubbie corporations going to be happy about paying pregnant women 2 salaries, or giving them 9 months off so they don't violate child labor laws?

If a woman dies in childbirth, how long should the child be imprisoned for manslaughter?

If I am transporting frozen embryos, can I use the HOV lane?

Will it be required to give tampons a decent burial?

[AlbertCat]

36. The only way to "stop abortion" ...

.... is to stop coitus.


Good luck!


I mean are these people nuts? Do they really believe making abortion illegal will stop abortions? It will only stop legal abortions.

Hey, making alcohol illegal stopped drinking in the 1920's and 30's didn't it?

Making drugs illegal stopped drug abuse. And making sodomy illegal stopped a whole host of sexual activity!

Didn't it?





Didn't it?

Since a huge number of fertilized eggs are naturally aborted... do those parents get tax deductions for their "person" made of a dozen cells.... or do they go to jail?

And at what point in its development is a corporation a person? 5 employees? 30? 100?

Let's not ask doctors and scientists when a fetus is sentient, let's ask the mob!

[bunnies]

37. Wouldnt that make a miscarriage involuntary manslaughter?

:shrug: Talk about fucked up!

[Hawkeye-X]

44. I'll be voting HELL no on this.

This is a dumb ballot, and it'll be struck down if it passes.

Hawkeye-X

[Doctor_J]

46. this is a scam by the right-wing fringe to get as many loonies as possible to the polls

in hopes they will vote for McSame

[DearAbby]

83. that is exactly what I told

my Sweet-Husband when they were asking for signatures outside a King Soopers here in Denver. "It's the wacko's attempt to stop abortion, and I bet is funded by some republican fat cats wanting to get the vote out. Lord knows, McCain couldn't draw flies, and he is full of shit."

When he asked for my signature, I said "Hell no"

[dougolat]

49. When I talk with abortion foes...

I give them the old quote; "A woman WANTS an abortion the same way a fox in a leg trap WANTS to chew its leg off!" and then " Making it illegal won't stop abortions, but it will make them more dangerous- some women will die, some will become sterile. Is that Pro-Life?"
What does 9 months of intensive care cost? If women are FORCED to provide that, I think they're owed a LOT of money!

[iamjoy]

53. I Like That Analogy

I mean, I've never had an unintended pregnancy, but I imagine many women in that situation feel like a fox in a leg trap

[grahamhgreen]

50. HISTORICALLY - A PERSON WAS NAMED AFTER THEY ARE BORN...

[Shipwack]

54. "You’re not a person ’till you’re in my phone book" - Bill Hicks nt

[Zhade]

55. At a minimum, it is NOT A PERSON until a cerebral cortex is formed.

That's the ONLY place that evidence shows the consciousness arises from, and it should be the only factor considered.

This is a dangerous question to ask a science-ignorant, overly-religious populace to weigh in on, seeing as they're not qualified to answer the question. At all.

[kdmorris]

57. NO more birth control in Colorado

If a fertilized egg is a person and a person has the right to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then birth control that makes the uterus inhospitable is out the window.

The only legal birth control would be birth control that stops eggs and sperm from getting together.

What a stupid law! Wonder if my idiot brother will vote for it?

[beac]

61. And, following the stupid "logic" of this bill... no more "birth" at all!

Because, if you are already a "person" as soon as sperm meets egg, then the day you emerge out of the womb is just the first of many moving days, right? Just a simple change of residence. I wonder if the fundies will make them stand in line at the DMV to change the address on their identity card from "Inside Placenta" to "123 Willowbrook Terrace"??

Will pregnant women be forced to shove tiny little cardboard boxes and packing tape up their ho-has to help their little "person" pack up their things before the itty-bitty U-Haul pulls up?

And THINK of the awkward conversation you will have to have with friends and relatives when getting ready to celebrate the infant's "personhood day?" :
Well, lets see, we were on vacation at the beach just about a year ago and Junior popped out about 3 months ago, so I'm gonna say it was the margaritas and naked Twister night. So, July 20th, can you all come over for cake & ice cream? No need to bring a 'personhood gift' !



GAH-- these people make me want to :banghead: until I pass out!

[kdmorris]

64. LOL good point

Since being born was what typically made you a person before, birth itself would become obsolete.

I hear you about the :banghead: Also depressing is that my brother and his wife live in Brighton, CO and there's a 50/50 chance that they would vote for this crap.

When dealing with my family, I usually go with "Don't ask".

[beac]

80. Don't worry...

My the votes of my aunt, uncle and mother-in-law in Denver will cancel them out +1! :)

[rox63]

60. This is their tactic to get all the fundies to the polls in November

'Cause voting for McCain just wasn't enough to motivate them. They're using this to keep CO red, since it was threatening to go blue this year.

[NutmegYankee]

66. Wheeee. Death penalty for women with ectopic pregnancies

I can see it now - Pro-lifers laughing and giving each other high fives while a young woman screams in agony and dies from the trauma of her fallopian tube bursting.

[minnesota_liberal]

73. CO has enough fundamentalist wackos that this could pass

As aluded to in the OP, this BS proposal is a first step in denying rights to the post-born, specifically women who see themselves as something more than baby-making machines.

[stlsaxman]

77. as soon as the papers are drawn up and signed for incorporation, right? n/t

[Withywindle]

78. I vote "puberty"

Good thing I don't live in CO.

[mpc755]

81. Premeditated murder?

If an 8 hour old fertilized egg is a person and a woman takes the morning after pill, is she committing a premeditated murder?

If so, then should she be put to death or spend the rest of her life in jail?

If not, then why not?

[Touchdown]

84. On the bright side, Jr. can drink at 20 years & 3 mos.

Vote and join the Army at 17 and 3 months. He can be President at 34 & 3 mos. And...drive at 15 and 3 months.:scared:

Joke? It's already happened in Missouri, where this 20/yo kid took to to the state SC and beat his underage drinking rap...all because of their "life at conception" law.

These people never think about the inplications.

[Scout]

85. how will they accomplish the constitutionally impossible?

you cannot give rights of personhood to a fertilized egg without violating the rights of the pregnant woman.

:puke:

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

86. Don't Christian fundamentalists and evangelicals believe that God

is the one who steps in and transforms a mere fertilized egg into a human embryo? Wouldn't that be the event that begins "personhood?" Identify that moment, why don't you? Why not also petition God to delay the process, and hold off his magic act for a few months, thereby making abortions completely legal and moral. God hasn't made 'em human, so they're just a soulless cluster of unholy cells. Abort!

[DinahMoeHum]

87. The head of Colorado's "Right to Life" (Brian Rohrbough) lost his son at Columbine

on April 20, 1999:
http://americanrighttolife.org/us
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/02/freespeech/main2057062.shtml

The inscription for his son Danny at the memorial raised a lot of eyebrows:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5704090,00.html

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6963501

(snip)
Daniel Lee Rohrbough
"March 2, 1984 - April 20, 1999

What will the world miss?

A precious gift from God with an engaging smile and beautiful blue eyes that would light up the room, sensitive and caring, always quick with a comforting hug. A funny kid with an infectious laugh and a quick come-back, so full of questions and wanting to know how things work. Family was important to you and always included in your life. Just beginning your journey with so much to learn, yet you taught us so much. We miss you...

"Dad, I have a question."

Why?

My son in a Nation that legalized the killing of innocent children in the womb; in a Country where authorities would lie and cover up what they knew and what they did; in a Godless school system your life was taken... Dan I'm sorry. 'I love you dad I'll see you tomorrow.' 7:00 p.m., April 19, 1999. 'There is no peace,' says the Lord, 'for the wicked.' Isaiah 48:22"
(snip)


AFAIC, Brian Rohrbough is a wet shitstain on his son's legacy.
BTW, he is also divorced. So much for "family values". Fucking asshole.

:evilfrown:

[radfringe]

88. if it passes

and a fertilized egg is a person - can the parents claim it as a dependent on tax return?

think about it... for example:

in our current system - if you gave birth on december 31 2008 you can claim the full tax deduction for the 2008 tax year. so if your egg was fertilized in 2008 will you be able to claim it as a tax deduction for the 2008 tax year?

[galledgoblin]

89. does Colorado actually have any clinics?

this is a dangerous precedent that could be set, but I don't think it'll affect anyone immediately if passed.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

91. they need to expand the count for postnatal issues

when is personhood reached?


a. at conception
b. 6 months post conception
c. at viability of the fetus
d. at birth
e. at 1 year
f. at six years
g. at 12 years
h. at 18 years, after passing a basic humanities test, and history, mathematics, and geography examination.

[HockeyMom]

92. Conception certificates?

Imagine them trying to figure out your date of CONCEPTION and putting it on a certificate? People travel all over. What state were you in when you conceived? Imagine if you were on a cruise in the Bahamas? lol

Insane.

[Writer]

94. So could a woman who has a miscarriage be indicted with negligent homocide or manslaughter?

[montanto]

95. "Every sperm is sacred . . . every sperm is great . . .

if a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate."

Menstruation oughta be against the law, too, I tells ya. Poor little egg. (But I bet my progressive wife would sign on to the "no more periods" movement--thwarting my plan to take over the world with the no kids that we have). Anyway, she should be thankful that she only needs to register 12 SSN's a year, I've gotta register more than a trillion of 'em.

Ooops, I gotta get to work.