Green Party names (Cynthia) McKinney as presidential pick

[Newsjock]

Source: Reuters

The U.S. Green Party, which captured far less than 1 percent of the vote in the last presidential election, chose former Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney as its 2008 presidential candidate on Saturday.

McKinney, 53, will be joined on the ticket for the November election by vice presidential candidate Rosa Clemente, a hip-hop artist and activist.

McKinney received 313 out of 532 votes cast at the party's nominating convention in Chicago, party spokesman Scott McLarty said.

In 2004, the Green Party drew 119,859 votes, or 0.1 percent of the total, finishing in sixth place behind the two major parties and three other third-party tickets.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1147675020080712

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seriousstan]

2. Green Party names McKinney as presidential pick

Source: yahoo

CHICAGO (Reuters) - The U.S. Green Party, which captured far less than 1 percent of the vote in the last presidential election, chose former Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney as its 2008 presidential candidate on Saturday.

McKinney, 53, will be joined on the ticket for the November election by vice presidential candidate Rosa Clemente, a hip-hop artist and activist.

McKinney received 313 out of 532 votes cast at the party's nominating convention in Chicago, party spokesman Scott McLarty said.

In 2004, the Green Party drew 119,859 votes, or 0.1 percent of the total, finishing in sixth place behind the two major parties and three other third-party tickets.

The party's best performance came in 2000 when Ralph Nader headed the ticket, and won 2.8 million votes, or 2.7 percent of the total. Some political analysts say Nader, a political and consumer activist, may have drawn votes from Democrat Al Gore and helped tip the election to Republican George W. Bush. Nader is running for president again this year as an independent.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080712/pl_nm/usa_politics_green_dc_1

[JeanGrey]

3. Being from Georgia can I apologize for Cynthia now?

[Better Believe It]

5. What For?

Doesn't she have the right to run for President?

And shouldn't people have the right to vote for whoever they want?

[JeanGrey]

9. What do you think? For whatever votes she take away from

US!

[salguine]

35. I've never bought that argument. The argument that any third party candidate

"takes" a Democrat or Republican's votes is based on the absurd premise that the Democrat and Republican are somehow the only ones "entitled" to those votes. Bullshit. They have to work for their votes just like any other candidate. This was still, up until recently, a democracy where more than two parties are entitled to run.

A guy I know who voted Green in 2000 was correct when he said "Nader didn't TAKE my vote from Gore. I gave him my vote willingly." Whether you agree with his politics or not, he's right.

Saying "For whatever votes she take away from US!" is breathtaking in its arrogance. Look at that statement, with its big capitalized "US". Are you so monolithically important? Do those votes already belong to you, JeanGrey, before they're even cast?

I would rather lose an election that win it unfairly. I'm a certified voter registration official, and when petitioning or polling, I never cease to be amazed and disgusted by how many people are perfectly happy to have an election—or any contest—be grossly unfair, if it's unfair in their favor. I wasn't raised that way.

Nobody's taking any votes away from anybody, JeanGrey. Get over yourself.

[Political Heretic]

93. It's just an observation of what actually happens.

So in 1992, Ross Perot captured a sizable percentage of the vote, polls showed those voting for him were either politically conservative or registered republicans or both. In 2000 the same thing happened with Nader an Gore on the other side.

I get what your saying that votes are "earned" but I think the people who say "take away votes" are thinking about it in terms of historical hindsight - that's what happened. If Ross Perot had not won, its fairly possible, if not even likely that the large number of registered Republicans that voted for him would have voted for their Republican nominee instead, and Bush would have been elected to a second term. If Nader and not been in the race, it is fairly possible, if not even likely that the large number of registered Democrats that voted for him would have voted for their Democratic nominee instead, and Gore would have been put into office rather than win, but not serve as president.

So looking back, these third party candidates did in fact "take away" votes from the Republican and Democratic candidate, respectively. However looking forward, no one is "entitled" automatically to anyone's vote.

So its a matter of perspective.

Having said that, with the country in such disarray, if one was going to vote for Obama if McKinney was not running, I think its shameful to throw away that vote on a candidate that will not get elected - as close to an absolute certainty as there is in this life.

[John Q. Citizen]

109. One problem is that the Repos and the Dems have purposely set it up so that

3rd party/independent runs for office almost always are spoilers for the party they are most philosophically aligned with.

It doesn't have to be that way.

There is nothing in the constitution that precludes instant run off voting, or fusion voting.

Fusion voting was at one time allowed all over the country. New York still has it but the 2 major parties have outlawed it most other places. Then they complain when some 3rd party acts as a spoiler.

Doesn't seem fair, to me.

[CrispyQ]

119. Saltuine, you are wasting your breath.

I agree with you completely, but on this site the meme is that Nader lost Gore the election in '00, in spite of the fact that Gore won the popular vote. And if all the votes in FL had been counted, I believe he would have won there, too. It was the SCOTUS decision that gave the election to boosh, not Nader. But for some reason, Nader always gets the blame. And if Obama loses in November, McKinney will get the blame. :eyes:

And yes, this assumption that the democratic nominee is entitled to the votes that are cast for the third party candidate & that those votes are 'stolen' from the dems, is absolutely asinine. Some days this site just doesn't get it. :crazy: We keep running centrists who back down from liberal values & when we lose, we blame the greens.

Great post! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[alarimer]

217. Since the difference between Gore and Bush in Florida was something like 500 votes

You could blame Pat Buchanan as well. But the real blame lies with Warren Christopher and whoever else told Gore to be dignified rather than ask for a total recount, which would probably have put him over the top, Nader or no Nader. Also it was just a lackluster campaign all around.

Obama has to EARN my vote and, so far, he has not done so. I may very well vote for McKinney. I am not sure it makes any difference at all here in Texas; it will not be close and McCain will surely win here.

[defendandprotect]

219. Try to understand that people who vote Green would be unlikely to vote

for Dems . . . except at lower levels -- and maybe not.


How about Buchanan who took 3,000 PLUS votes from "us" in Florida
on a "butterfly ballot" designed by Democrats --- ??? !!!

How about Libertarians and Socialists who took 6,000 plus votes in Florida ---?? !!

How about 300,000 "DEMOCRATS" who voted for Bush in Florida --- ?? !!!


How about the GOP fascist rally outside Miami-Dade Election HQs which stopped the
Florida State Supreme Court's mandated recount --- ???? !!!

How about the Supreme Court putting Bush in the White House --- ?? !!!



Cynthia McKinney happens to be a gem --- she was totally harassed by the GOP --

and she had the guts to challenge Rumsfeld when others didn't.

We are still missing more than 3.4 TRILLION the Pentagon can't account for . . .
and coincidentally, those records happened to be in the Pentagon wing which was
allegedly hit by an airplane on 9/11.

[pnwmom]

14. She has the right to make a poor decision, just like anybody.

She has made a poor decision, and any progressive who votes for her -- instead of Obama, the more progressive of the two candidates who could actually win -- will also make a poor decision.

And no one who wants to continue on DU has the right to promote the candidacy of opponents to Democratic candidates -- which she now is.

[JeanGrey]

16. Oh but is ok to bash Nader for doing the same thing, right?

CYNTHIA will take votes from Obama! Geesh wake up.

[pnwmom]

21. Did you read my post? Or did you stop at the word "right"?

Of course she has the right, of course Nader has the right, of course anyone has the right.

But it's a POOR decision of hers to run, and it's a POOR decision if any progressive votes for her, because it will only take votes away from Obama, who actually could win.

[frylock]

161. 9% congressional approval rating will take votes away from obama..

direct your ire at the milquetoast dems that continue to weigh your party down.

[knixphan]

204. gotta agree there.

[JeanGrey]

67. THANK YOU.

[Hugabear]

51. Yes and Yes

But don't expect to see any McKinney love here on DU. This is Democratic Underground, not Green Underground. Promoting 3rd party candidates isn't welcome here.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

59. Don't be surprised when she does get support from DUers.

Sometimes, this place does feel more like GreenUnderground.

[roody]

111. Cynthia was a Democrat until they pushed her out.

[bluebloodwarrior]

178. I think she has the right to run, but we should focus on Obama

He has a realistic chance of winning. It would be an uphill battle for McKinney.

[defendandprotect]

220. We should understand the populist message that the Green Party delivers . . .

at the least ---

This is not all environmental ---

Meanwhile, the Green Party internationally generally draws about 10% of the vote ---

so I think we should move to IRV voting ---

[Pastiche423]

6. Apologize for what?

I sincerely would like to know why you think you should apologize for the former representative.

[JeanGrey]

10. Sorry but I do not care for Cynthia. I have my reasons and they

are personal.

[AP]

15. If they're personal to you, then they're not a reason anyone else should care about, no?

[JeanGrey]

17. One of the biggest is taking votes away from Obama!

[Better Believe It]

29. How In The World Can She Take Away Votes From Obama That's He Wins?

She can't steal votes.

And I don't think anyone who wants to vote for Obama will vote for her instead.

You seem to have the false assumption that every vote, or almost every vote, she gets would automatically go to Obama if she wasn't running.

Now that's what I would call entitlement!

And that's also nonsense!

Obama is free to try and win away votes from her and she is free to try and win voters away from Obama, McCain, Barr or any other candidate.

What's wrong with that?

Unless you think only two people ought to be permitted to run and compete for President, Obama and McCain.

I support everyones right to run for public office and everyones right to vote for the candidate of their choice.

[michreject]

56. Do you honestly believe that she would steal votes from McCain?

Even one.:rofl:

[Better Believe It]

89. She Won't And Can't Steal Any Votes From McCain Or Obama!

Please indicate how she can "steal" or takeaway votes from either McCain or Obama that they are entitled too.

[JeanGrey]

140. Simply because she is running when she knows full well

she doesn't have a chance in hell of winning. As a former Dem, any vote she gets would definitely not come from McCain's base!!!

[JeanGrey]

69. She is running against OUR candidate and do not tell me she

is "entitled". Do we want another "Nader" situation? The loss of those votes hurt! And the last time I looked we were not to support ANYONE running against Obama!

[Better Believe It]

90. She's Running Against McCain, Barr, Nader and Obama

Why is that so difficult for some people to understand?

[nels25]

164. Okay - She has a perfectly legitimate right to

run for president as the Green Party nominee. No one should be questioning that, if they are than they do not know there constitution well enough.

It sets out age limitations but no party limitations, as many parties as desire can run candidates for the office.

Now I will admit that most states have made it very difficult to get on the ballot, but that is more a function of parties (in a bi-partisan manner) getting together to pass legislation that in effect rig the elections in their favor. Hence the difficulty of anyone not connected to either major party to gain access to the ballot. Should it be changed, ah yes. Will it?? Lets see have my beloved Cubs won the World Series yet??

Beyond that it is also quite permissible for some to have a less than charitable or stellar of the one time Congresswoman from Atlanta.

I for one have taken a dim view of her antics over the years, and I could never imagine voting for her if I were in her district, I would simply omit voting for her particular office (voting GOP not being an option) and voting for the other offices on the ballot.

Any way that is my 2 cents.



:hi:

[salguine]

37. Once again...

The argument that any third party candidate "takes" a Democrat or Republican's votes is based on the absurd premise that the Democrat and Republican are somehow the only ones "entitled" to those votes. Bullshit. They have to work for their votes just like any other candidate. This was still, up until recently, a democracy where more than two parties are entitled to run.

A guy I know who voted Green in 2000 was correct when he said "Nader didn't TAKE my vote from Gore. I gave him my vote willingly." Whether you agree with his politics or not, he's right.

Saying "For whatever votes she take away from US!" is breathtaking in its arrogance. Look at that statement, with its big capitalized "US". Are you so monolithically important? Do those votes already belong to you, JeanGrey, before they're even cast?

I would rather lose an election that win it unfairly. I'm a certified voter registration official, and when petitioning or polling, I never cease to be amazed and disgusted by how many people are perfectly happy to have an election—or any contest—be grossly unfair, if it's unfair in their favor. I wasn't raised that way.

Nobody's taking any votes away from anybody, JeanGrey. Get over yourself.

[Psephos]

43. nailed it n/t

[JeanGrey]

82. It is NOT arrogance, it is truth! I guess you maybe want a

REPEAT of 2000? I remember how Ralph Nader was torn to PIECES on this forum for the same thing, and yet you feel you have to villify Cynthia.

And you're a democrat, right?

[salguine]

98. Okay. Point by point.

1) Yes it is arrogance. Can you explain how "She's taking votes from US" isn't arrogance? I refer you back to my original statement. Those votes aren't yours until they're cast for you, and no amount of reality-twisting is going to make it otherwise.

2) How is it truth? (See #1)

3) As far as a repeat of 2000 goes, what I want is for anyone who wants to run to run, everyone to vote for whomever they choose, all the votes be counted, and whoever gets the most votes wins. If that means I get stuck with a winner I hate, then so be it, that's the way it goes. At least it would be fair. Whether you like him or not, Nader was right when he said "The 2000 election was stolen. Don't get angry with me. Go after the thieves."

4) If you can point out where, in anything I've said, I "villified (sic) Cynthia, I'd be interested in knowing what it was.

5) I'm not a registered Democrat, no. I've never aligned myself with a party; I prefer to vote for ideas and principles rather than parties. That being said, I lean very solidly left politically.

Are you going to start screeching for my head, now, for having the temerity to not be a registered Democrat? And will you now demand that I be barred from DU forever?

[JeanGrey]

132. Do you follow the theory then that the votes she gets will

come from McCain's base? This is unreal.

[salguine]

154. Of course not. I don't know where

her votes are going to come from, and neither does anybody else. Who's to say? But I know for a fact—by their own admission—that a substantial number of people who voted for Nader in 2000 would not have voted at all had he not run, so the assertion that his votes "came from" Gore is wishful thinking at best.

What's unreal? It all seem perfectly real to me.

[Runcible Spoon]

189. thank you for your posts on this thread.

even as Democratic supporters, we need to realize that votes are earned, not defaulted.

[Better Believe It]

91. You Did Indeed Nail It!

Thanks

[Psephos]

22. ???

To the contrary, personal reasons are the basis of most gossip, entertainment, and news. Nothing is more interesting than the motivations of others, especially when they're perceived to be "secret."

[Pastiche423]

19. If they are personal

then why post it on a public board?

[emilyg]

34. You're not alone.

[JeanGrey]

83. No, I'.m not - which is why I aplogized.

[Popol Vuh]

7. What for?

Because she's been dragged through the mud by the corporate media and corporate whore politicians? I don't know about you, but, Cynthia McKinney is an outstanding person and former Congresswoman. She's only got a bad rep because she had the nerve to speak truth to power and stand up for what's right.

And I would like to add: that whenever you have the corporate media and corporate politicians belittling another politician. That politician is very likely the person you want to give your support to. Unless of course their belittlement is due to having been caught for something unlawful or other misconduct.

[pnorman]

31. I fully agree.

Pay CLOSE attention to what she says; she's on OUR side. But if you can do that and still chew gum at the same time, MAINTAIN your unstinting support of Obama until AFTER he's safely elected. Eight YEARS of absolute hell for this nation as well as the rest of the world--- just four more MONTHS of patience---is that asking for too much?

pnorman
Edited to mention this DVD well worth viewing: http://www.amazon.com/American-Blackout-Cynthia-McKinney/dp/B000GYHRHE

[barbtries]

58. on another thread on this topic i wrote

today's live broadcast of their convention:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/07/11/18515409.ph...

i think i might turn green if it was viable. i'm torn. the democrats are not representing my values and beliefs and not doing enough to change the world in my opinion. yet it is so important to get rid of the republicans that i dare not vote my actual conscience, because i'm in NC and my vote may actually count.

makes me homesick for CA.

i've never been anything but a democrat. but democrat used to mean liberal to me. democrat used to be the opposite of reactionary and warmongering. it's just sad days. i think i'll listen to their convention just for the refreshing change of position they represent. here's their "10 key values":

grassroots democracy
social justice
ecological wisdom
non-violence
decentralization
community-based economics
feminism
diversity
responsibility
future focus

they seem more representative of me than the two major parties. yet i know i cannot vote green in NC because it's too republican already. my vote must work against and not for because my choices are severely limited in this non-representative two-party system we're stuck with.

i just wanted to reiterate that i only wish i could vote my conscience. cynthia mckinney in my opinion is a true american hero. she's also advocating for 911 truth which is an issue for me as well. yet all i can do is vote against the republican. it really does suck.

[Spouting Horn]

88. No, Cynthia McKinney

has a "bad rep" because she is an OBNOXIOUS ASS, nothing more.

[davidinalameda]

97. is blaming her loss on the J-E-W-S speaking the truth?

she's an anti-Semitic nutcase

I can't believe that the Greens nominated her

[JeanGrey]

133. I can't believe the stuff I am reading on this thread!!

[Behind the Aegis]

160. I can believe it.

And, I am not at all surprised she has fans here, some possibly for the very reason you mention.

[davidinalameda]

179. sad isn't it

[KamaAina]

200. Her father is an anti-Semitic nutcase

he's the one who blamed Cynthia's loss on, well, you know.

Should she have moved more quickly to denounce him? Absolutely -- but it's tough when it's your own father who's the nutcase.

Ron Reagan's father was a nutcase, too. Do we hold it against him?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JeanGrey]

11. I have my reasons and they are personal and have nothing

to do with racism. They are personal.

[truedelphi]

13. I sure do think that anyone from Georgia should be far more embarassed

By the folks you mention -- "Newt Gingrinch, Zell Miller, and the entire Repugnant office holders that control our 'once-proud' state, are from here."

Cynthia has done some very courageous things. Opposing the war, and targeting the vast lie of Nine Eleven and the rest of it.

[JeanGrey]

18. Those people won't take votes away from Obama, do they?

[salguine]

38. And yet again...

The argument that any third party candidate "takes" a Democrat or Republican's votes is based on the absurd premise that the Democrat and Republican are somehow the only ones "entitled" to those votes. Bullshit. They have to work for their votes just like any other candidate. This was still, up until recently, a democracy where more than two parties are entitled to run.

A guy I know who voted Green in 2000 was correct when he said "Nader didn't TAKE my vote from Gore. I gave him my vote willingly." Whether you agree with his politics or not, he's right.

Saying "For whatever votes she take away from US!" is breathtaking in its arrogance. Look at that statement, with its big capitalized "US". Are you so monolithically important? Do those votes already belong to you, JeanGrey, before they're even cast?

I would rather lose an election that win it unfairly. I'm a certified voter registration official, and when petitioning or polling, I never cease to be amazed and disgusted by how many people are perfectly happy to have an election—or any contest—be grossly unfair, if it's unfair in their favor. I wasn't raised that way.

Nobody's taking any votes away from anybody, JeanGrey. Get over yourself.

[JeanGrey]

66. Give me a major break. I guess all of you on this board just

loved Ralph Nader didn't you? We ALL know that Obama has to win with enough of a majority for it to be "tamper proof". So if Mckinney manages to get enough votes ok, that's ok with you?

I don't believe my EARS.

And I will restate that I do not like Cynthia for many reasons, lest of which slapping that cop, and her father Billy is one of the biggest racists in Atlanta. He hates the Jewish people and uses every opportunity to slam them.

This is what a Progressive party supports? I am stunned.

[CrispyQ]

120. I haven't read any post in this thread where someone states they are going to vote for McKinney --

just that she has the right to run & that any votes cast for her are not 'stolen' votes from the dems. For those concerned that she will tip the election, I would ask, what message do the greens convey that resonates with voters who would normally vote dem? Put your energy to that issue rather than dissing candidates who buck the two party system.

[JeanGrey]

129. I'm sorry but ANY vote for her is a vote taken from Obama.

I for one do not wish to repeat Nader in 2000.

[CrispyQ]

170. Nor do I.

But the citizens who cast their votes for McKinney have every right to do so. For you to go on & on & on & on & on about these votes being 'stolen' or 'taken' from Obama shows that you have no knowledge or appreciation of our democratic system. You don't mind if the system is skewed for your candidate, but if the skewing goes against your candidate, whine, whine, whine.

Keep your blinders on, JeanGrey. I hope they serve you well during the coming years of unrest.

[salguine]

124. You just keep huffing and puffing over stuff that nobody ever said! I never

once said a word about Cynthia McKinney, whether for her or against her! I don't know about her, and I don't care. I don't support her. I never mentioned her at all! You did!

"I guess all of you on this board just loved Ralph Nader didn't you"!? Listen to yourself! You've slipped into the old "everyone is against me" defense. Think on this: Maybe you're wrong?

As a matter of fact, Ralph Nader has been a friend of mine for years, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. I won't be voting for him this time around, though.

Believe your EARS.

And by your logic, John McCain is going to steal votes from Obama.

[superduperfarleft]

127. Nicely done.

I ell oh elled at the McCain stealing votes thing. It's so true...

[JeanGrey]

130. No, I'm not wrong. Nader did a HORRIBLE thing and she is

doing the same. I can't believe anyone doesn't get this.

[salguine]

155. I really don't think there's any point in

continuing this any further. Your arguments are founded on completely faulty (and undemocratic) premises—you simply insist (with ever-increasing shrillness) that only McCain or Obama are entitled to run and get any votes, you seem to think everyone except you is crazy, and you have not addressed the possibility that you are quite insane. This has become a waste of my time.

[Elidor]

121. Maybe if you whine some more, she'll drop out

[JeanGrey]

131. You think? That would be GREAT,

[Jacquot72]

25. She has a right to run

And she'll represent the left wing much more than any Democratic candidate would.

She'll also hardly draw enough votes to make a difference.

[harmonicon]

42. I don't know about ANY Democratic candidate

....but probably "almost any". One of the good things, but also one negative thing, about the Democratic party is that it has become a sort of catch-all for non-batshit-crazy voters and politicians alike. There are certainly some very left wing Democrats, and some very right wing Democrats. I'm really not at all happy with our presidential nominee and many national office holders, including my two senators, but as long as we have people like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich in the party, I think there is hope. I never really thought of myself as a Democrat until Dean ran for president. He was the first person to run for public office where I didn't just think "well, this person is the better of two evils", but really thought that he would do a great job and represent my interests in government. Too bad NBC et al decided that I wouldn't get to vote for him.

[JeanGrey]

134. Really? And she used to be a democrat, and she knows GOOD

and well THAT SHE HAS NO CHANCE, and whatever amount of votes she pulls will come from. She is doing this for her own good and has not one iota of good for anything democrat.

She is a racist and her father is also a racist, not to mention the fact that she is nuts. I don't care who doesn't agree. And doing this will only hurt our party. I stand by that and no one will ever change my mind.

[Jim Sagle]

41. According to you:

As her daddy Billy said following one of those defeats, 'It's the damn Jews'...a comment that he has been vilified for again and again - only it happens to be true.

Filthy antisemitic rubbish.

[DirtyDawg]

48. Filthy antisemitic rubbish, eh...

...precisely what I expected you, or somebody, to say. As Jimmy Carter has said, nobody can criticize the Jewish Lobby's or the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's policies and practices, not to mention the right-wing leadership of Israel itself, without being labeled anti-semitic. Perhaps Mr. McKinney was bit harsh in his characterization, but he knew that the Jewish community, from across the nation, on more than one occasion, marshaled funds and sent them into Georgia's Fourth Congressional District in huge amounts specifically to defeat his daughter. Now why would they do that if they didn't see her and her support for Palestinians as contrary to their one-sided agenda for US mid-east policy? Was she being anti-semitic when she called for fair-play for Palestine? Is Jimmy Carter? Is hanging that label on critics the only response you've got?

[Jim Sagle]

50. I labelled Mr. McKinney's comments antisemitic because they WERE antisemitic.

[martymar64]

169. Yes

That is the only reply he has for ANY criticism of israel. He makes Dershowitz look like Himmler. I suspect he's a Kahanist, probably worships Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir.

[LeftishBrit]

180. How about leaving the 'all my opponents love terrorists' theme to Bush?

It's not a liberal argument.

And Mr. McKinney was not criticizing Israel; he was attacking American Jews.

(BTW, I think that anyone has a right to run, and I've quite often voted Green in my own country!)

[JeanGrey]

70. Thank you. And Billy has made a career of it.

[Bette Noir]

81. Because her dad was a pig doesn't make her one.

I'd hate to be associated with one single thing about my father.

[Jim Sagle]

128. I denounced her dad, not her.

[Alexander]

52. You're defending Billy McKinney's anti-Semitic screed?

"As her daddy Billy said following one of those defeats, 'It's the damn Jews'...a comment that he has been vilified for again and again - only it happens to be true."

What the fuck is wrong with you???

[Stevepol]

55. There's no way to know if she got beat in GA elections.

How can anybody know what the results of the GA elections are when they're handled totally by Diebold in secret without verification?

I doubt AIPAC had as much effect on the election as what some computer savvy insider working with or for the vendor did after being paid for his or her services.

The result in McKinney's election is a separate issue from her personality or likability quotient.

[JeanGrey]

135. Please - we need to get over the idea that every election

we lose is because of pandering. SHE LOST. People could not stand her (at least a lot of them) and she was soundly defeated, not by a narrow margin.

[cali]

57. um, no. what her father said is decidedl.y not true.

And by endorsing that statement YOU are giving us a lovely display of bigotry. AIPAC is not "the Jews". It's a largely Jewish Group that does not represent most American Jews. And it's not a PAC and can't contribute political funds.

[JeanGrey]

84. EVERYTHING.

[1monster]

39. No! I think she's terrific. If the Democratic Party had any spine at all, she'd still be in

office AND maybe at least a Vice Presidential contender.

Don't you recognize the tactics used against her? If not, then I guess that's why the same tactics are used against Democratic candidates so successfully by the Republicans year after year after year... :eyes:

[Vidar]

182. Exactly right! The only remaining democrat wi balls is Kucinich,

and the fuckers do their very best to ignore & marginalize him.

[LWolf]

64. Why?

I think you should demand an apology TO her, from her own party.

Edited for correction:

from her own former party.

[Maat]

4. Interesting ...

hopefully, she will speak up loudly, and make things much more interesting!

[JeanGrey]

12. Yes we're ready to give up votes aren't we?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. The way our system works is that the person who convinces the public

gets the votes.

[JeanGrey]

71. NO. Obama is the presumptive nominee and if YOU or anyone

else is going to support Cynthia McKinney over him you have no place on this board.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. I'm just saying that nobody is OWED votes

They have to earn them. That's a fact of life.

Obama has the advantage, but he could lose it if he keeps triangulating when it's not necessary. Having a challenger on the left may keep him from drifting further to the right.

See, I can understand his "black fathers" comment, because one of the favorite Republican memes is "hardworking white folks' taxes going to support black welfare mothers," and Obama's comment was a preemptive strike against that.

But there's no whispering campaign or public groundswell out there in the real world saying, "Yes, we definitely want our private phone calls monitored without a warrant."

It was a pure and simple cave-in, probably under the influence of corporate backers.

ON EDIT: This is a board for Democrats, but the establishment Dems need to realize that the majority of voters are literally up for grabs, and they have an option other than voting third party: staying home.

[JeanGrey]

85. If you are going to bash our candidate you don't belong here.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. What is this, Maoist China?

I'll bash anyone I want if they deserve it, and on this particular point, Obama does deserve it. He caved when he didn't have to.

[JeanGrey]

138. You won't on this board unless they have changed the rules.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

150. In this case, you're wrong, Ms. Self-Appointed Mod

Criticism of the nominee is allowed.

[JeanGrey]

151. And support of those who would remove votes from our

nominee that is allowed as well? Funny I think not.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

153. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

:eyes:

[High Plains]

96. Who the fuck are you? n/t

[JeanGrey]

139. Another member of democratic underground that

understands the rules or I at least THOUGHT I did until I read these!

[salguine]

125. You should start a new thread that's just a list of all the people you want banned from here.

[JeanGrey]

142. That was a simply stupid response. I have no such list but

for the first time I am wondering if Democratic Underground isn't just a haven for closet righties or trolls.

[Runcible Spoon]

190. HA that's rich!

:rofl:

[Ignis]

186. Not banned, sent to Re-Education Camps!

:eyes:

[JeanGrey]

137. When you state that Obama is "triangulating" and could lose

voters you are dissing our candidate - the majority of voters are up for grabs but I can GUARANTEE you that Ms. Mckinney won't be getting them - just enough to cause trouble. Which makes me want to spit for her even doing this because she knows she won't get elected and is only trying to inject herself back into a forum that has soundly rejected her, and will harm our chances, however small.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

152. Obama is triangulating, and if McKinney is no threat, then

she's not worth having temper tantrums about.

If McKinney really is a threat to Obama, then he needs to get his act together in a way that Al Gore DIDN'T in 2000.

[JeanGrey]

172. I just don't want to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth

and the crybaby rants if it is a close election.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

173. It will be a close election only if Obama plays "me too" with McCain

If he doesn't differentiate himself from the Republicans sufficiently to impress the average, uninformed voter (something Gore failed to do), the average uninformed voter will assume that Republicans are the only show in town. Or they'll think, "I like veterans" or "McCain is a hero," or something equal superficial and irrelevant.

I'm planning on voting for Obama at this point, but I have no control over what other people do.

[1monster]

100. Cynthia will bring more voters to the polls... My husband was threatening not to vote this year.

In Florida, we are totally disgusted with the way elections have been run and sick to death of the games.

My husband can't stand Obama, but hates and fears McSame. He said he wasn't going to vote this year. I kept trying to convince him to vote for Obama as the only alternative we had to four more years of the same destructive policies.

When I told him last night that McKinney is running, he said, delightedly, "Now HER I can vote for!"

And, by the way, my husband is a Republican (although, these days, it's name only). I'd rather his vote went to McKinney (if nothing else, it sends a message) than McCain or even worse, that he stayed home and didn't vote at all.

[fujiyama]

222. No offense

but your husband is an idiot, at least when it comes to politics.

And all the bullshit that happened in Florida is due to your own state's reps (BTW, I'm from MI and the same thing happened there).

[alarimer]

218. More lockstep bullshit

You sound like a Republican: "sit down and shut up and vote for our nominees even if he is a corporate piece of crap".

[Cappadonna]

229. Ah, a Do Nothing Party running another Hopeless Egomaniac

I used to be registered in the Green party but left due to nonsense like this. Instead of taking time to build a true third party alternative at the local level and solve problems that we as greens could fix, the national party choses to court another self-important egomaniac who got booted out of the Dems.

Not that she doesn't agree with the 10 principles and isn't progressive on the issues, but McKinney ain't running to win or build the Green Party. She's running to booster her own ailing political career in hopes of landing on the professional lefty talking head circuit that has made Nader so damn rich over the last 40 years. Like Nader and Jackson, she's been sent out to pasture by the Dems and she's looking to claw her way back into politics. And it wasn't entirely b/c she's too progressive for the DLC. Many Native Georgian progressives pointed out, she's kook and a diva -- not qualities we want in a president.

And asking an inexperienced 'hip-hop activist' as a running mate is just a sign of pandering to white liberals desperate to shave some 'coolness' points off the O-man. (As a point, I'm 30 and have been involved in politics since the early 90's. I'm also a hard core hip-hop head. In all my years in progressive politics and as a life long hip-hop fan, I have no idea what a 'hip-hop activist' is. Is this chick gonna pop-and-lock while discussing tort reform???!!!) Hopefully, progressive hip-hop heads aren't buying it. Though familiar with her organization (Malcolm X Grassroots) Rosa Clemente has no business running for the VP slot. She has no elected experience - period. Hell, at least Obama served as a State Senator for a few years before hitting the national scene. Why not put her ego aside and run for City Council here in New York City? Half the council is getting tossed because of term limits -- perfect time to get one's feet wet and make changes in your own backyard. But, no, Ms. Clemente is going to spend 5 months tilting Windmills.

McKinney will be a fixture on the lecture circuit and Rosa Clemente will probably land a teaching gig at CUNY after its all said and done. (And that's only if Obama wins. If he loses, progressives will tar and feather both these women and Nader.) Using presidential campaigns as career boosters and bully pulpits is a waste of time and resources, IMHO.

And as it shown with the last three (dear god) elections, the Greens as a party couldn't give a rat's ass about building a third way and grassroots efforts. Very little efforts goes into educating and recruiting potential candidates or grooming them not to look like Tie-die freaks when running for office (I could tell you stories). The Greens aren't interested in why they can't make inroads in college towns or depressed inner cities where they should kicking ass and taking names. Nope, they're running a Presidential campaign against probably the most progressive candidate the Dems have run since RFK with a woman who is so full of herself that she smacks a cop for asking for ID when entering a federal building and then cries racism.

I may return to the Green Party some day -- when they grow up.

[Olney Blue]

20. Does that mean she is not a Democrat anymore?

[seriousstan]

49. Officially, yes. She is now a Green.

[struggle4progress]

23. McKinney won't affect the national election. Third party candidates are an American tradition:

their impact is limited

Third Party Presidential Candidates
http://www.presidentsusa.net/thirdparty.html

[deadmessengers]

44. their impact is limited?

Are you shitting me? Where were you in 2000, living in a cave?

Fortunately, the third party candidate most likely to impact this year's election is Bob Barr.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. Nader would have had no effect if Gore had run a strong enough campaign

to convince an unbeatable majority of voters that he was different from and better than Bush. Instead, I watched him repeatedly say, in effect, "Me too" to whatever Bush said.

Yes, Gore won, but not by enough to prevent the theft of 2000. And it's all the fault of excessive caution and wimpyness on the part of the Democratic establishment, which means that they have to blame Nader.

Tell me again how the Dems supported the Congressional Black Caucus when they protested voting irregularities after Congress reconvened in 2001? Oh wait, they didn't.

[JeanGrey]

141. So you have convinced yourself that the six thousand or so

votes Nader got in Florida didn't hurt Gore when he lost by five hundred? Right.

[defendandprotect]

221. Let's try again . .. Gore WON the 2000 election . . . any way you count it . . .

That's fact ---


Meanwhile . . .

300,000 "DEMOCRATS" in Florida voted for Bush . . . !!!

Buchan won more than 3,000 plus votes from the "butterfly ballot" designed by Democrats --- !!

Libertarians and Socialists who took 6,000 plus votes ---!!

Additionally 600 "illegal" absentee ballots were counted for Bush --- !!!


Further, do you recall anything about a GOP fascist rally outside Miami-Dade Election HQs which stopped the Florida State Supreme Court's mandated recount --- ??

Or anything about the Supreme Court putting Bush in the White House --- ??



Cynthia McKinney happens to be a gem --- she was totally harassed by the GOP --

and she had the guts to challenge Rumsfeld when others didn't.

We are still missing more than 3.4 TRILLION the Pentagon can't account for . . .
and coincidentally, those records happened to be in the Pentagon wing which was
allegedly hit by an airplane on 9/11.

[JeanGrey]

73. I cannot believe I am reading this garbage!!! Where these

people ALL brain dead in 2000 when Nader did what he did? Maybe I don't belong on this board. I thought it was all about getting the DEMOCRAT elected and not fawning over someone who WILL NEVER get elected but will pull votes away from us.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

87. Do you hate Bob Barr, too?

Because there are people on this board who are really Libertarians more than traditional Democrats, and they may go for Bob Barr on the basis of the FISA vote.

[JeanGrey]

143. I cannot stand Bob Barr. I don't "hate" anyone. Or at least

I try very hard not to.

[1monster]

101. I was in Florida. It wasn't Nadar who caused Gore to lose the race. It was Fox News,

(remember, Bush's cousin called the election for Bush even while it was not established).

It was corrupt county election officials who did not do the State onstitutionally-mandated recounts when the margin of victory was so small, but sent in the original counts; or in the case of a couple of counties who discovered that the recount showed Gore to have won more votes than Bush, still sent in their original counts showing that Bush won.

It was George Bush rushing to the Florida Courts to try and stop recounts, then when losing there, taking it to the US Supreme Court to stop the recounts, all the while screaming that Gore was the one who ran to the courts.

It was the Supreme Court for allowing political considerations to interfere with their sworn duty to uphold the Constituion and buying the specious and fallacious argument that George Bush would be harmed by having a recount because it might (would) show that Al Gore won the election, not Bush.

It was Jeb Bush and whatshername with the makeup (on edit: Katherine Harris) who illegally cleared tens of thousands of voters from the voter registration rolls. It was they who set the policy for voter intimidation and disnefrachisement (spoiled ballots, hanging chads, double votes, etc.) that was so prominent in Florida (and elsewhere without the publicity).

I hold no brief for Nadar. He took Republican Party money to pay for his campaign. That means that he was a deliberate spoiler, not a legitimate candidate for change.

I don't believe that McKinney is in this as a spoiler. I believe she is in it to be heard, to make a point, and to try to change the horrific direction our current crop of Legislative and Executive representatives are taking us.

[JeanGrey]

144. Make no mistake, Mckinney is in it for herself. She isn't

"making a point". She's been soundly rejected by the voters, and just cannot accept it. She doesn't care one whit how many votes she takes away from anyone.

[frylock]

162. speaking of braindead..

perhaps you need to read some Greg Palast. There were other factors that came into play in 2000 that allowed for the theft of the election. but by all means, continue to beat that nader horse into the ground. i know how cathartic it can be for the ill informed.

[JeanGrey]

193. Facts are facts and cannot be changed.

[superconnected]

165. The problem is, they're still braindead, 8 years later.

[JeanGrey]

194. Amen and it looks like THEY WILL BE for another election

with nonsense as well!

[struggle4progress]

114. Nope: not blaming my long-time hero Nader for Republican dirty tricks

Nader's not perfect -- he's been a talented organizer and policy geek but he lacks strategic sense

But my energy will go towards fighting my enemies -- and Nader's not my enemy

[Freddie Stubbs]

167. Their impact is USUALLY limited

Just ask Al Gore.

[RainDog]

24. She's Joe Lieberman's twin.

good riddance to both.

the green party is a joke. Nader has disgraced himself with his last remarks about Obama "acting white."

I guess McKinney is acting green now, too? There is no viable alternative on the left. The changes have to come from within the democratic party.

[depakid]

53. Without IRV, you're right in the short term

over the longer haul, however- my bet is that the dysfunctional 2 party system won't the fallout from peak oil and climate change.

[TroubleMan]

104. You couldn't be more wrong.

Joe Lieberman turned so far to the right, he left the Dems. He abandoned his core values and went to work for the right-wing.

The Democratic Party turned so far to the right, to bribery acceptance, and to plutocracy, that they left Cynthia McKinney, who never changed her ideals. Her ideals are the core values of the Democratic Party, or what used to be the Democratic Party.

She decided not to be a bush enabler (like Pelosi), so they shunned her out of the party. She remained the same, while the leaders of the Democratic Party abandoned their values.

[JeanGrey]

145. I refuse to believe that the "core" values of my democratic

party are bigotry, conspiracy theories, and racism. Because she exudes all three.

[TroubleMan]

174. Wow right wing lies drudged up by a Duer.

She exudes none of those. Those are all bs charges from the right wing smear machine. It's sad that you bought into it.

[JeanGrey]

195. It's sad that you don't know what is right in front of your face.

I do. I don't need "drudge" or anyone to make up my mind for me. And She is everyone of them. Plus giant Ego. Hell in that regard she could probably fight Clinton for biggest ego and win if she got that far.

[undeterred]

107. Its ridiculous to call her Joe Lieberman's twin.

She was not disloyal to the Democratic party- they were disloyal to her.

[LeftishBrit]

112. How is it different?

As I see it, both were defeated for re-selection by their own party - which the party has a right to do. No one has a right to be selected because they're already an incumbent. So I don't call it *disloyalty* by the party in either case.

BTW, in 2006 the Daily Telegraph was reporting the outcome of the elections. The writer was aware that McKinney had been defeated by a Democrat, and didn't realize that she'd been (as we'd call it) deselected by her own party. So they reported that "Republican Cynthia McKinney was defeated in Georgia". Reason number 357 for never totally trusting anything in the Torygraph!

[Better Believe It]

175. Joe Leiberman Was Al Gore's Running Mate: That Didn't Help!

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. My dad was at the convention. He really likes McKinney, as do I.

[LWolf]

65. As do I. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. As do I

The Dems have treated her shamefully, and given that treatment, I can't blame her for leaving.

[davidinalameda]

99. that's the same argument that people used for Lieberman leaving

the Democratic voters chose someone else in the primary

[Lydia Leftcoast]

102. Then he should come clean and join the Republicans

since he seems to be such good buddies with them.

[undeterred]

108. If she picked Kucinich as her running mate and he said yes-

Now that would be tempting.

[GreenPartyVoter]

115. It sure would but I am pretty sure Dennis will not leave the Dems

[undeterred]

118. I think you're right.

Especially since he is one of the few TRUE Democrats.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

158. I love her.

She is one of my heroes. :loveya: IMO, she got a royal fucking over by the party, to its eternal shame.

[Psyop Samurai]

27. Imagine if we had instant runoff voting...

...instead of the blackmail voting system.

Think what a joy that would be.

I'm putting in a request for my next life.

[superconnected]

28. Are the green party really going to go stupid again and say Mccain and Obama are the same

person, like they did for Bush an Gore.

Gee Green party, you did a 'heck of a job' in 2000. I just can't seem to forget.

[Better Believe It]

30. I've Been Unable To Find That Often Quoted Quote

Please provide a link to the Green Party statement that Gore and Bush were the same.

I've seen that comment many time but the posters have never been able to provide a link.

Can you?

[superconnected]

32. Oh Gawd. It was THEIR MANTRA.

Google
green election 2000 bush and gore "are the same person"

I heard it from green members personally though, over and over and over.

[grillo7]

36. There were plenty of quotes like this from Nader:

"It doesn't matter who is in the White House, Gore or Bush, for the vast majority of government departments and agencies."

or

"It's a Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum vote."

or

"The only difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door."

Consequently, his supporters loudly began saying there was no difference between Bush and Gore, and not only siphoned off votes that otherwise would have gone to Gore, he kept some people home on election day. While he might not have flat out said it, the sentiment became widespread after he suggested it.

[1monster]

40. But Ralph Nader wasn't a Green Party member. Ever.

He simply used the Green Party to fly his campaign. Didn't he run on the Reform Party ticket the last time?

And he isn't a Reform Party member either.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

60. There's a false argument if I've ever seen one.

Yes, I'm running as the Green Party candidate, but I'm not a Green Party member.

And yes, the Green Party endorses this candidate that says both major candidates are exactly the same, but we don't endorse that message whatsoever.

Ever heard of logic?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

79. Statements don't gain currency unless they resonate somehow

I've heard people say "Both parties are the same" since I was a child in the 1950s.

[Better Believe It]

92. That's Utter Nonsense

I never read that or heard that from ANY Green Party member or supporter.

Can't provide a link to the often quoted quote?

[KittyWampus]

33. Wonder whether she'll be taking money from Republicans like Nader.

[depakid]

45. One thing for sure- she won't be taking tainted corporate money

for a quid pro quo.

[superconnected]

166. What's the difference where she gets her money, she can't win so it's a wasted vote.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think the dali lama is awesome, I'm just not going to vote for him in the next election because it will come down to Mccain and Obama, even though, yeah I think he'd be better for this country.

[stimbox]

46. No, but her opponents in the Congressional races did. I'm sure Obama takes donations from Repukes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. And if DEMS hadn't recruited a primary challenger against her

from among the Republicans as a "reward" for investigations of corruption, she'd still be a loyal Democrat.

[JeanGrey]

74. If she could, SHE WILL. She will take from whoever she can

to get back in office.

[Better Believe It]

94. Obama Will Be Taking Money From Republicans

So what's your point?



http://www.republicansforobama.org/

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

54. Oh, what a smart choice.

My, my, my.

I am going to admire the sheer cleverness of this for a minute or two.

But I'm going to vote for the Democrat.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie26]

75. Is there any chance

at all that Bob Barr & McKinney could be included in the debates? I think they'd make them *much* more interesting!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. Yes--it would force the R and D candidates off script

and audiences would see how they met REAL challenges from people who REALLY disagree with them.

[Marie26]

78. And both

McKinney & Barr are really, really smart & know their stuff. They could pierce through the media-driven blah, blah, gotcha attempts of the MSM debates. Wouldn't it be fun to see Barr challenge on the Patriot Act, or McKinney on criminal liability for Blackwater mercenaries? Some truth might actually get out.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. Yes, the R and D candidates both tend to stay on script and play nice

What good is a debate without a little blood?

[TroubleMan]

105. That would be great. Obama would be able to handle it - McSame wouldn't.

Also, maybe those two could force the debate into some real issues.

[readmoreoften]

147. Now there's a non-primary debate I'd enjoy watching...

[fascisthunter]

95. Just Heard about This on College Radio

well... there is a vacuum, and where there is one, a space will be filled. Since Obama and the corporate established Dems keep dissing the and using the left politically, they might want to wake the fuck up. I knew this FISA thing would hurt Obama and was incensed at such a poor poor political decision and such a hugely unpopular move....

well... there is nobody else to blame.

PS - that won't prevent the authoritarians from blaming her though for "stealing votes"... as if.

[TroubleMan]

103. My second favorite politician after Kucinich.

It's so sad that the Democratic party has turned to right-wing policy, bribery acceptance and plutocracy so hard, that a member that once would be considered a member with core values is now a fringe outsider. We should be going toward the ideals and policies of a Cynthia McKinney, not shunning them.

The majority of the USA agrees with her (if you poll on just issues without naming names or party affiliation); it's only the corporate news that makes it seems like she's on the fringe. Sadly, there are several on DU who've imbibed from the same chalice.

I'm voting for Obama, but if Hillary would have been selected, my vote would have been for McKinney. Maybe I'll be lucky and Obama will win in a blowout, and I'll actually get to cast my vote for her. It seems unlikely, being in Florida, that that will happen, but you never know.

[IndianaGreen]

106. Bob Barr will syphon off more votes from McSame than Cynthia will from Obama

However, if there is a US/Israel attack on Iran, the US elections will become meaningless as the rest of us are squashed by the calamity that will rain on us all.

[GreenPartyVoter]

116. Agreed. Obama is the strongest candidate in the race and drawing in votes from all

over the political spectrum, whereas McCain's own party is ranging from tepid to furious where he is concerned. Many will vote for someone else or not at all. That gives Obama the edge.

However, I firmly believe 2000 and 2004 were stolen and it could very well be again. If that is the cased I hope to see a ton of people in the streets.

[mdmc]

110. Those votes BELONG to Obama!

Spoilin R electzon :scared:

[AntiFascist]

113. Not to support Cynthia's decision...

but her hearings and other proceedings were starting to get at the root cause of 9-11 (little to do with Israel mind you, more to do with government/terrorist collusion). The DLC-wing of the Dems likely took offense to this.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

117. And the Dem establishment recruited a REPUBLICAN to run against her in 2002

So much for party loyalty.

[mdmc]

126. yes

[Runcible Spoon]

191. this kind of rhetoric is poisonous and will cost Obama votes in the long run.

wake UP! Nobody "owes" Obama ANYTHING, nor does he "own" anything. Not votes, not time spent electioneering, not money, not support. The sooner the Democratic party gets its shit together and genuinely takes into account the will of the people, the sooner we can enjoy a landslide victory.

The easiest and hardest lesson in electioneering is NEVER TAKE THE VOTE FOR GRANTED. EVER.

[roody]

122. American Blackout

This is an interesting video about McKinney. Republicans voted, two times, for her primary opponents.

[DinahMoeHum]

123. GREEN = Getting Republicans Elected Every November

:kick:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

136. Oh, gee, I've never heard that acronym before

:sarcasm:

[Zavulon]

146. Even if she were running against McCain with no other opposition, I'd stay home.

She's no more stable than McCain is, and she was an embarrassment to our party. There's a thread in the Lounge asking if there's anything you wouldn't do for ten million dollars, and voting for her is one of them.

[readmoreoften]

148. Anyone who thinks that McCain is as good as McKinney is an embarrassment to our party.

[Zavulon]

149. Who said that?

I said she's no more stable than he is. Not the same thing.

Anyone who jumps to stupid conclusions is also an embarrassment to our party, by the way.

Edited to reiterate that said stupid conclusion was made by a poster who uses the screen name of "readmoreoften." :rofl:

[fujiyama]

225. Between her and McCain I'd sit the election out as well

She's a loony and agree about her stability.

But between her and McCain and a million smackers, I'd vote for her, take the million and leave the country. I'd know that with McCain winning in a landslide, the country would be fucked anyways.

[ima_sinnic]

156. in response to the hand-wringing here: now why would Dems prefer to vote for McKinney at all?

The Dems better wake the fuck up, if McKinney can "steal votes" from Obama it must be because what she stands for resonates with them more than a vote for endless warrantless wiretapping, sweeping *co's war crimes and treachery under the rug, and NOT pursuing every path to the truth about 9/11 no holds barred, among other things.

If Obama loses to McCain, he will have only himself to blame, not McKinney or any other "third party" candidate. Even a pile of stinking dog doo should be able to beat McCain.

[sfwriter]

171. Bingo... EOM

[mainegreen]

157. I see the moronic 'we own your vote' meme is in full swing in this thread.

First off: I'm voting Obama, just so we don't think I'm trying to shill for her.

However, contrary to popular opinion, unless you rig the vote, the only person in fact who is responsible for a candidates loss is the candidate themselves. Period. No amount of whining or logical distortion can change that simple fact: it is the responsibility of a candidate to get themselves elected in the conditions prevalent at the time.

Claiming 'ownership' of votes or decrying the ability of candidate to run for office is a disgusting, offensive, un-American and un-democratic viewpoint. If you hold that viewpoint, you are not in favor of democracy. It's really as simple as that folks.

So feel free to bash her politics. Bash her right to run and accuse her of vote theft, and you've just become an enemy to freedom, if only a small one.

[LeftishBrit]

181. I agree with you.

In a democracy, anyone has a right to run.

I haven't voted for either of our two main parties since Blair became Labour leader in the 90s.

I would vote Democratic if I lived in America, as I think that the big danger is letting in the Republicans again (just as I would vote Labour here if Thatcher were still Prime Minister and I lived in a constituency where my voting Labour could make a difference).

[David__77]

159. I love Cynthia.

She's a true progressive and leader. I hope she comes back to congress - hopefully as a Democrat. We need her.

[Freddie Stubbs]

206. She left the party and her home state of Georgia

[Zorra]

163. Very interesting that they chose a black woman. Not to dis Cynthia McKinney's

capabilities in any way, but...did the Greens choose her in the hope that she might siphon off some of the black/female vote from Democrats?

I've always been oriented toward the Green Party somewhat, but being the political skeptic that I am, well, I'm just sayin'...

[bean fidhleir]

168. "did the Greens choose her in the hope that she might siphon off some of the black/female vote"

I doubt it. She's just the biggest name that has decent politics. I'm sure they'd have picked DK if he weren't joined at the hip to the Dems.

[Better Believe It]

176. Nader Not Responsible For Gore's Alleged "Loss" In Florida

250,000 registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush.

Leiberman and Gore's weak campaign helped to drive them toward Bush while Ralph Nader told them not to vote for Bush.

Nearly 100,000 Florida voters actually voted for Ralph Nader in 2000.

Not one of them was "stolen" from Gore.

Every vote that Nader and Gore received was won and freely given by voters.

But the bottom line which some still seem to ignore is that Albert Gore DID WIN the state of Florida.

The election vote was stolen.

But not by Ralph Nader.

Blame the Florida Republican party.

Don't let them off the hook.

And blame the Supreme Court for selecting George W. Bush as President.

Bush was not elected in 2000.

[stimbox]

177. Had Gore won his home state, Florida wouldn't have mattered.

But he didn't and the Bushies stole it with the help of the Supeme Court.
The rest is history...

[fujiyama]

223. Ummmm Tennessee went to Bush because it has been shifting RIGHTWARD

the last 8-10 years. They thought Al Gore was TOO LIBERAL.

But never mind that. And nevermind that those "dems" that went to Bush in '00 also though Gore was "too liberal".

But facts are something ideological nuts like Naderites, Greens, and other crackpots don't get.

[onehandle]

184. Nader campaigned in Florida in the final weeks of the election knowing full well the danger.

If less than 1/2 of one percent of his voters had voted for Gore in Florida (and statistically, they would have if Nader would have stayed out of the state those last weeks), Bush would be a nearly forgotten mediocre former Texas Governor.

Nader knew what he was doing.

[JeanGrey]

196. Damn right he did and I wonder if Cynthia doesn't too!

Wake up or the gnashing and wailing this year is going to hit a lot of people right where they can at least take it, and I'll be through with politics for GOOD. I know understand WHY our party is known as the one "most likely to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!". Our poor country then that once was we will never have again. And we'll all sit around as keyboard comnmandos and wonder "what happened" and right nasty notes using profanity to get our rage out while the country sinks...................

I never knew until this year but it's all coming clear.....................

[democrat2thecore]

183. I like her politics, but GOD - that woman has an ego bigger than anyone I've ever known - seriously!

[onehandle]

185. Ralph Nader is the name you're looking for.

Hmm... Now what was he doing around the year 2000.

Is self-importance a prerequisite for being a Green candidate?

[democrat2thecore]

187. Good point -nt

[stimbox]

188. It's a prerequisite for being a politician. n/t

[JeanGrey]

197. Ya think? One that allowed her to have FIVE (count them, five)

altercations with security guards and ended with her turning and smacking one of them with her cell phone - all for guard having the nerve to do his job and identify who she was.............

[Snarkturian Clone]

192. McKinney is a walking talking joke

just like the Green Party, so it's a good fit.

[JeanGrey]

198. Sure but she'll hurt Obama in this state.

[fujiyama]

224. I seriously doubt it

Maybe among a few idiots that want to make a "statement" among all else, but among those that actually want to break away from the last 8 years of constant fuck ups and disasters, she won't be looked at. She has some name recognition in the state, but it really isn't particularly positive. She did lose her own primary.

She's a joke and a quack. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that but fuck it. She's a demagogue in the worst sense. Fuck her.

[stimbox]

199. Newsweek interviewed McKinney

...Of course, there's the perennial third-party candidate question: What do you make of arguments that you'll pull votes away from the Democrats, thereby ushering into office a Republican who shares even fewer of your views?
That's not grounded in the facts. As the film "American Blackout" points out very well, there were numerous instruments used in the 2000 and 2004 elections to disfranchise voters. Voter caging and voter ID laws exist to disfranchise voters. The question I believe Newsweek ought to be asking is how can we ensure that people who have the right to vote also have the opportunity to vote. And after their vote is cast, how can we ensure their votes are counted. How can an environment that does not ensure election integrity ensure us that the will of the voter is reflected in the announced outcome?

So it doesn't concern you that taking even 1 percent away from a major political party could result in four more years of policies that differ even more drastically from those of the Green Party?
That's your language, not my language. I gave you my take, but you haven't accepted my take. Maybe you would feel differently if your vote wasn't counted. In an environment where people vote their values, we must have election integrity where every vote is counted. We didn't have that in 2000 and 2004 and neither the Democrats nor the Republicans did anything about it. But in 2004, the Green Party did something about it.

The last time you made big headlines was in 2006, with the incident involving the Capitol Police, and that was far from the only controversy that's come up in your political career. Has that been a problem for you during this campaign?
People care first and foremost that their votes are counted, people want the United States out of war and occupation, people want to have access to healthcare, people don't want to have to sleep in their cars because they've lost their homes. I think the fact that former GAO comptroller David Walker is making a comment that our fiscal house is not in order-those are the issues weighing heavily on people's minds and those are the issues that I talk about.

If you were to be elected, what would be item number one on the McKinney agenda?
Is it OK if I do several things simultaneously ? First of all, we have to instruct the Joint Chiefs of Staff to draw up an orderly withdrawal process for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. We would also begin work immediately on a budget to submit to Congress that satisfies human needs and doesn't reflect corporate greed as the current budget does. I would also remind the members of Congress swept into office with me as the New Broom Coalition that we could initiate impeachment proceedings. Also, I would make public the papers pertaining to certain tragedies in the life of our country, like the JKF assassination, Martin Luther King Jr., and the 9/11 Truth Movement-I would release everything the Bush administration knew about September 11. One more thing I would do is begin the process of putting into place a Department of Peace. It would be wonderful to rename the Department of State as the Department of Peace and have our ambassadors go around the world with a mission…to begin their engagement in the world based on human rights and peace.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/146263/output/print

[JeanGrey]

201. What "papers"?

[stimbox]

202. Classified documents that haven't been released to the public. n/t

[JeanGrey]

203. Oh, but Cynthia knows! She has access to all these secret

documents that have the truth about everything up to and including 9/11. Right.

[stimbox]

208. And releasing these classified documents is bad, how?

I guess you think all of the secrecy is needed and it's a.o.k. to protect the guilty.

[JeanGrey]

210. Please explain to me how Cynthia has access to "secret, classified

documents" that explain all the mysteries of the world. You're kidding, right?

[stimbox]

211. You obviously don't want to have a discussion. You are just here to smear her.

Afraid of an outspoken, progressive african-american woman huh?

i bet you crossed over to vote against her.

[JeanGrey]

213. I thought so.

[stimbox]

215. please don't hurt yourself with that thought. n/t

[knixphan]

205. She's got the right to run...

That's all too clear. This is America.

Back to the Dems...

If we want to protect our candidate from all comers, I say we start registering every man, woman and boll weevil in sight.

The percentage of American voters needs to increase by 600%.

Then we won't have to bicker about the Greens.

[LynneSin]

207. In 2009 either Obama or McCain will be in the White House

So no matter how noble a move this is for Cynthia, no matter if all of DU bands together and decides 'fuck it we're all voting for Cynthia, in 2009 either Obama or McCain will be in the White House.

I for one will not waste a vote - this electorial system, as sucky as it is - does not give us a choice

[stimbox]

209. Voting your conscience is never a wasted vote.

"I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't want, and get it."
Eugene V. Debs

[FlaGranny]

214. Well, I'd rather you didn't

not get what you wanted. Truth be told, I would rather vote for what I didn't want and get what I really DID want. That's just old practical me, though.

[OKthatsIT]

212. I've always liked her, too.

And Pelosi should apologize to her. Pelosi and the anglo Capital Police should apologize to her. Did you know she was being harassed by the Capital Police for years? And she was being stalked by someone during that period of time when the Capital Policeman grabbed her shoulder? Did you know it was policy that every Capital Policeman knows every face in Congress and it is customary for all 'members' to forego walking through the metal detector?

Oh...she was also representing the African American Capital Police with a discrimination complaint, at the time as well.

[TheDonkey]

216. I saw her on CSPAN trashing democrats at the Green convention. Hope she loses badly

and she will.

[blindpig]

226. it's like the man said:

[AlphaCentauri]

227. Rather have Cynthia McKinney and Matt Gonzalez than Joe Lieberman as contenders

at least McKinney and Gonzalez bring the issues to the table, Lieberman would bring democrats to the GOP.

[libodem]

228. I respect what I have heard from Cynthia McKinney

when I have heard her speak. I just don't get the Greens messing up elections by splitting our voting block. If we are a 2 party system I think we have to play the game that way until it's clear that we have multiple parties. Something else I don't have enough information about would be the electoral college and how it would tally the small block votes. I figure if it's somewhere like Idaho, if an extra party ran it wouldn't even get on the board unless it reached a certain percent of the votes. A little off the subject (but just to all more thought to the mix) my boyfriend argues with me that we are not a Democracy as long as we only have two parties. He has a more progressive POV but wants to be 'objective'. He was really pissing me off saying as long as we vote in either Dems or Repubs we are betraying true Democracy because we truly don't have a choice, the parties are both locked into the Washington mindset, and lobbyists are in the pockets of both. Well, all I can say is he better damn well vote for, Obama.