Iran moves ballistic missiles to launch position

[thewiseguy]

Source: Times

Iran has moved ballistic missiles into launch positions, with Israel’s Dimona nuclear plant among the possible targets, defence sources said last week.

The movement of Shahab-3B missiles, which have an estimated range of more than 1,250 miles, followed a large-scale exercise earlier this month in which the Israeli air force flew en masse over the Mediterranean in an apparent rehearsal for a threatened attack on Iran’s nuclear installations. Israel believes Iran’s nuclear programme is aimed at acquiring nuclear weapons.

The sources said Iran was preparing to retaliate for any onslaught by firing missiles at Dimona, where Israel’s own nuclear weapons are believed to be made.

Major-General Mohammad Jafari, the commander of the Revolutionary Guard, told a Tehran daily: “This country is completely within the range of the Islamic Republic’s missiles. Our missile power and capability are such that the Zionist regime – despite all its abilities – cannot confront it.”

Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4232021.ece

---

I wonder what the oil prices will be this monday. Somebody has got to put a stop to this escalation.

[pt22]

1. I hope Israel doesn't attack them but if they do I hope Iran hits back. Hard.

:grr:

[villager]

2. I somehow don't find myself wishing for such widespread destruction.

n/t

[pt22]

6. Just half-widespread is about right for you, eh?

:shrug:

[villager]

12. I don't have a punitive rooting interest in Mideast destruction, if that's what you mean.

n/t

[pt22]

15. I'm very fluent in English but I have no idea what "punitive rooting interest" means.

:eyes:

[ohio2007]

25. answering that question will get the thread moved

to a more logical,out of the way forum.



Only so many truce rockets red glare will be tolerated before a measured response will be taken.

And then,
the punative damages postings will fly for the unprovoked breach of the truce

;)

[Hugabear]

9. Somebody has to teach Israel and the US that they can't fuck around with impunity

I don't want destruction either. HOWEVER, if Israel is going to start it, it shouldn't be just a one-sided affair.

[villager]

14. Yes, let's all root for "teaching them a lesson" as the basis of everyone's Mideast policies

n/t

[pt22]

17. Ah, now I see! It's all of a piece with your disdain for personal self-defense

which you find to be such a terrible idea. Forgot who I was chatting with for a minute there.

[villager]

19. Wow -- there's never enough death in the world for you, eh? Well, Mr. Thanatos

...there are other death-obsessing chat sites for the likes of you.

Right now -- ignore list time!

[Frisbee]

28. Any...

Sovereign nation has a right to defend itself if attacked. Last time I checked, Iran fit that description. So damned right they should launch a COUNTER-attack if they are attacked. Of course King George will probably use that as an excuse to bomb Iran back to the stone age, but that's a whole other discussion.

[Bake]

188. "Don't START no shit, and there won't BE no shit."

Israel needs to calm the fuck down. Whether I agree in theory with a counterattack/missile launch, that IS what will happen. And we all know where it goes from there.

Bake

[Hugabear]

44. I see you prefer the "Let Israel bomb whoever they want" policy

n/t

[villager]

135. i see you prefer the snarky "putting words in someone's mouth" form of "discussion"

n/t

[Hugabear]

152. Do you have a legitimate solution?

Let's suppose Israel did launch an unprovoked attack against Iran.

Does Iran not have a right to retaliate? Does Israel have the right to take unilateral preemptive military action against any country that it deems a potential threat? For too long, Israel and the US have had this "we're the good guys" attitude, which they feel enables them to make the rules, act however they want.

So if Israel did attack Iran, what should Iran's response be?

[villager]

174. the point was, I'm not "hoping" or "wishing" for anyone to attack *anyone*, capiche?

One attack, by any side, will lead to retaliation by the other.

and onward, and onward.

anyone who "wishes" for any of this is a DeathEater.

[wordpix]

181. how about PEACE TALKS instead of nuclear annihilation? Give peace a chance-geesh

[Hugabear]

186. You and Villager need to go back and look at the underlying issue here

The issue here is if Israel launches an unprovoked attack, what should Iran's response be.

NOWHERE has anyone here suggested that Iran should just take action without provocation. But once you are attacked, you have every fucking right to defend yourself!

[madeline_con]

75. Israel should have no monopoly on that particular policy. n/t

[kestrel91316]

141. I have often thought that the only permanent solution to the entire

Arab-Israeli Israel-Palestine conflict, which ultimately is about real estate, is to evacuate Jerusalem and surrounds and then nuke it to glass. And say, "There, children! Now NONE of you is gonna have it anymore, and there will be NOT ONE MORE WORD about it. From either of you."

[Jack_DeLeon]

173. Not that I give a shit about Israel, or the middle east in general...

we should get out and let them all fuck themselves.

But that being said given their history I dont those people living in Israel would be all that appreciative of people attempting to try to get them to board trains, boats, or planes to leave their homes these days.

Myself I've always thought that perhaps Jerusalem would bet smote by a meteor or something someday.

[Ghost Dog]

176. There speaks an experienced Mother, methinks.

:) :(

[bdamomma]

179. me either, death and destruction did we kill enough people yet?

will we pay for this. sadly.

[Trajan]

7. Hmmmm ...

Even as I disagree with Israel on many things; wishing bad things to happen to them, or to Iranians, is unbecoming for a Liberal ....

Are we not ANTI war ? ...

Do we march against war here, but march FOR it there ? .... Where is the intellectual consistency ?

[pt22]

32. Lord have mercy, I can't recall ever having such a tough time with English.

Don't the first 2 words "I hope" have any meaning these days?
:eyes:

[awoke_in_2003]

45. To all the Israel apologists...

if Israel doesn't want those missiles launched, then they should not attack first. They should sit down, STFU, and learn to start living with their neighbors.

[sellitman]

69. Israels neighbors have vowed to destroy them

Israel should not be expected to sit back and wait for anniliation.

I don't cheer an attack on Iran but at some point the options are all on the table. I hope diplomacy wins out but I fear it won't.

[Political Heretic]

99. How did you feel about the doctrine of pre-emption when bush suggested it?

Because that's what you just outlined for Israel.

And PS - Israels state neighbors haven't "vowed to destroy them" in a long, long time. It's not really a good argument to bring up decades old - in some cases generations old - sentiments from state governments and use them as justification for an absurdly aggressive middle eastern state.

Sorry that when Israel was magically "created" as a state right out of other people's land, and then when Israel invaded and occupied land that didn't belong to them -- considered evil and bad when people we don't like do that, but apparently ok when its Israel -- you can expect that there were some pretty harsh feelings about it. If I had been living near their theft and aggression, I would probably be threatening to fight them back too.

But times change. No one is pretending that relations are "cozy" with all of Israels neighbors, but no state government in the middle east is pretending that Israel is going anywhere either.

[sellitman]

117. Your historical timeline is off.

There are more folks who aren't "decades or generations old" who saber rattle like this but since we are talking about Iran, here is its Leader:

Iran's Ahmadinejad quotes

> "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

> "Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

> "The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

> "If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

> "Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

> "Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."


If this guy is your neighbor you might be just a little bit apprehensive no?

As for the land Israel lives on it's their own ancestral land. Go look it up. You should know better.

[Political Heretic]

124. Ahmadinejad is not Irans "leader" - he has no power in the state

Name for me now many state governments have as their official policy the destruction of Israel today? Do you even know?

It isn't Israel's "ancestral" land - its land they took by violent, genocidal force, if you want to consider "the bible" to be any sort of historical record.

[FogerRox]

160. Dont bother with fact and logic, they dont.

[truedelphi]

139. And Iran has watched the USA destroy the nation of Iraq, in part on behalf of Israel

Iran is motivated not just by the concept that certain Powers taht Exist might be against them, they will carry out whatever they want to.

[sellitman]

154. Last I looked we went into Iraq for oil.

Bush is a friend of big oil my friend.

If you don't know that by now then I can't help you.

[truedelphi]

196. The very first oil pipeline put up under our occupation went to an Israeli pipeline

And Isreal needs other things from Iraq as well.

Don't doubt the oil motive - it is just that we live in a world where the American government does a lot of things for foreign corporations (Can we say the word "Corruption," boys and girls?)

Our Alaskan oil and timber goes to Japan.

[Doremus]

185. For diplomacy to win out they need to try it first.

Diplomacy? What diplomacy?

Demanding that Iran dismantle its nuke program before we'll even talk to them isn't diplomacy. It's lunacy.

Lunatics are in charge of all 3 countries. They wouldn't know diplomacy if it bit them on the ass.

[Megahurtz]

199. Oh Bullshit.

Total and complete Bullshit. Just because Israel "thinks" Iran has uttered such mere words is no excuse for Israel to attack.

Complete utter Bullshit.

[Trajan]

84. I'm sure the Pro-Israel members in I/P would be surprised to know ...

I am an Israeli apologist ....

Kinda laughable ....

Nevertheless: wishing ill upon either side is the same problem .... there is no difference ...

[BigDaddy44]

180. Israel has missiles launched at them EVERY DAY

Should they sit down, STFU, and let those missles just keep coming?

[pegleg]

192. This is also a very anti-Israel website, pro radical Muslim website

[The Liberal Thinker]

18. Wait, what?

You want Iran to hit Israel?

[dipsydoodle]

24. I don't really believe that anyone wants that to happen.

The scenario here is Iran hitting back after a first strike. If the Israelis want to play with fire then so be it - people who play with fire usually............

[pt22]

29. Wait, what? You can't read?

?
Hint: look for the words "I hope" in my post.
:eyes:

[Zuiderelle]

79. You said you "hope" Israel doesn't attack, but you "hope" Iran hits them back if they do.

The trouble you have with English is understanding that what you wrote is that you HOPE that Iran attacks Israel if Israel attacks Iran.

[AngryOldDem]

21. Viscerally, I understand that sentiment.

But do you really want to unleash on the world the level of destruction that will follow?

There are no good answers here. None. This is exactly the scenario I have been dreading for a long time.

[natrat]

34. that's fucking nuts-this is literally ww3 , a nuclear war-fucking completly nuts

[Political Heretic]

102. Their ballistic is non-nuclear.

If you mean that their actions might provoke a nuclear response by Israel, that's certainly possible since Israel is fucking crazy.

But Iran putting their non-nuclear (since they don't have any) ballistic missiles into a defensive position following the US and Israels aggressive posturing is pretty understandable.

[qazplm]

42. what a weird hope

neither country is an angel. On the whole, at least the former is a democracy. That puts it ahead to me. I dont agree with their saber-rattling and if they attack I will be pretty pissed, but I have no desire to see nuclear plants start being considered legitimate targets.

[awoke_in_2003]

46. "but I have no desire...

to see nuclear plants start being considered legitimate targets"

Too late. Israel already considered them this. But, I guess it is okay for them to launch a first attack, they are a democracy after all :sarcasm:

[sudopod]

70. I'm sure everyone downwind from the wreckage of Dimona

will appreciate that wonderful Pu dust that will be blasted into the air. :3

[alfredo]

138. Like our soldiers in Iraq.

[Political Heretic]

106. I think its a poorly worded hope for accountability

I have a feeling that it comes from the emotion of wanting to see CONSEQUENCES for the United States and Israel's ongoing aggressive posturing and doctrine of pre-emptive war.

I think sometimes its just feels like the only way to the frenzied aggression of "our side" is if there were finally severe consequences for it.

Basically, its like wishing that someone would finally stand up to a Bully. Only in this case, Iran sadly is not the "poor, innocent picked on kid" but another Bully in its own right. :(

[villager]

136. it is, isn't it? We have our share of sick puppies here on DU, too...

n/t

[fascisthunter]

53. That's the Problem... they probably will hit back hard

as would anyone who was pre-emptively attacked, and think of the thousands, maybe even millions of Iranians and Israelis that could die....

:banghead:

[dixiegrrrrl]

58. and Americans in the Middle East could die.

rightly there or not, they are there...
How much more radiation do they think they can contaminate the Middle East with?

and it is so so so ironic I am listening to Lennon's "Imagine", playing it over and over
as I read about the impending WW 3 that so many people have actually
been wanting and working towards for long.( See PNAC writings )

The whole sordid sad demented insane regime would be a hell of a satire movie...
if only this were a movie...

my heart hurts today....


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[madeline_con]

76. They should pack up and head home. n/t

[Ian David]

77. Not a fan of Jews? I'm just asking. n/t

[High Plains]

190. Yeah, play that old anti-semitism card.

Just saying.

[liberal1973]

I don't agree

[liberal1973]

91. I don't agree

[Zachstar]

113. Why? So when the missiles land We go to war as treaty demands?

That is what is going to happen. The moment one Iran missile is in the air. 30 Tomahawks will suddenly leap from the water as the 688 obviously have been planning for this. Afterwards every damn B-52 B1 and B-2 will be in the air.

[FogerRox]

162. Those aircraft have minimal capacity, LA class subs can launch 116 Tom Toms in a heart beat

A few of the Ohio class Boomers have been retro fitted w/vert launchers too. None of those aircraft can deliver anything remotely as effective as the Tomahawk. See my journal for Tomahawk penetration variant.

Those aircraft go in the air, its to deliver nukes.

[Zachstar]

167. Toms are EXPENSIVE. So they are a first salvo weapon.

And there is no way in hell an Ohio is anywhere near there. Not with Kilos about. It may hit HARD but the escape is what could lose us an Ohio.

And yes I know it is old Kilos but technology to upgrade them is cheap these days and the crews train to blast even Seawolves out. Not to mention the vast amount of knowledge recorded for WW2 on handling Diesels. Remember that we are STILL trying to kill a Diesel loaned to us with a crew that barely tries.

No the B-2s and 52s will be in the air. Tho that is assuming the missiles Iran launches are not fitted with bioweapons which I fear they will try.

[FogerRox]

191. Those upgraded Ohio's can stand off 1000 miles to launch, 15 vert tubes for Tom Toms

I'll bet we've dropped acoustic sensors all over the Gulf and the Straights. I doubt any "Boomer" is going in the gulf. And dont forget the onboard seal team that can be deployed from vert launch tubes in mini subs.

But Iran isnt going to do squat, wanna bet a cup of coffee on that ?

[Prophet 451]

146. Gods, I hope not

Any Iranian attack against Israel, or vice-versa, would impact innocent civilians most.

More to the point and all moral rights and wrongs aside, any Iranian retaliation would be mana from heaven for CheneyBush. We know they've been champing at the bit to attack Iran. All they'd have to do is spin Israel's attacks as "pre-emptive self-defence" and Iran's retaliation as a disproportionate attack on the US's favourite ally; the corporate media would go along with it as they always do; large swathes of the American public would believe it and presto, the US is at war with Iran and Chimpy might well impose martial law.

I'm for whichever scenario gets least people, Iranian and Israeli alike, killed.

[Marrah_G]

169. Considering our own young men and women are in harms way........

........be careful what you wish for.

There are DU family members within reach of those missiles.

Hopefully sanity will prevail and neither one will make such drastic moves.

[Bake]

187. If it happens, the whole Middle East goes up in smoke.

And that would be stupid on both their parts. Too bad we don't have someone in the White House that could talk some sense into Israel.

Bake

[Megahurtz]

198. I just hope Israel Isn't THAT Fucking Stupid. n/t

[pinto]

3. I wish that the armed posturing from all parties would stop.

It may be pro forma in the region, as in other world 'hot spots', but it sure seems a dangerous dance.

[Adsos Letter]

78. I agree pinto... it reminds me a little bit of pre-WWI Europe...

in the sense that there was mucho belligerence and a concurrent arms race...next thing you know something happens and suddenly everyone is locked into a death-spiral.

[Prophet 451]

147. Agreed

And just like WWI, all it takes is one spark and the whole lot comes tumbling down.

[Spouting Horn]

4. Does anyone think

Iran's missiles can hit Dimona from 1,250 miles? It would have to be pretty damn direct to do any damage.

I'm not sure their missiles are that advanced, does anyone know?

[thewiseguy]

8. Here is some info on Iran's Shahab 3 missiles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahab-3

The article states the missiles are probably guided by GPS. It would be interesting to know how many of these missles Iran has. They have been mass producing them since 2004.

[Spouting Horn]

10. Thanks for the info

They appear unreliable on such a small target.

This is bullshit talk. If they're going to launch them, they'll have to launch them into larger civilian areas.

They know there's no way in the world they could hit Dimona

[thewiseguy]

16. I dont want to see them try it

They can afford to go ahead and launch 50 missiles directed at Dimona. I bet you one more than one will make direct hits.

[Pavulon]

55. It would be interesting to see if GPS worked

once the satellites detected a heat plume. I would bet they have a secondary system for guidance as well. GPS would be off the table, considering we own the system.

Launching ICBM's is very dangerous. There is no way to determine the threat level they pose.

[FogerRox]

96. Just wait untill the missiles are being fueled, the big give away with liquid fueled missiles

Irans liquid propellant plant is SE of Semnan

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/solid-prop.htm

Kinda hard to miss from space. So then the liquid fuel has to be loaded into tanker trucks, kinda hard to miss from space, then those trucks have sit sit next to the missile launcher for hours..... loading the fuel.

The OP cites an obsolete missile in order to cry wolf.

[Cirque du So-What]

13. Dimona is definitely within range

The Shahab-3, like the North Korean Nodong missile from which it is derived, is a scaled-up version of the Russian Scud B and Scud C missiles, and shares the Scud's weaknesses. Because accuracy diminishes with range for a given guidance system, the accuracy of the Shahab-3 at its range of 1,300 km has been estimated at no better than three kilometers of its target, making it of little use as a battlefield weapon. With such low accuracy, it currently could not be counted on to hit troops or even an airfield. Instead, it seems intended for use against cities and civilian populations and has no military application other than simply holding enemy populations hostage.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050609-iran-missiles.htm

Ranges are contradictory for the map and the article snippet, but from all indications the Iranians have been working on their accuracy.

[ohio2007]

22. I think Iran doesn't like the thought that a peace deal brokered by Egypt

may break out.

Israel, Hamas watch to see if truce will hold

Palestinian policemen loyal to Hamas play table tennis in Rafah, Gaza, on Thursday.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/19/israel.hamas.truce/


At least they still have Lebanon in their sphere

Hezbollah militants take over West Beirut
Fri May 9, 2008

Future TV, with a poster of slain leader Rafik Hariri, whose family owns the station, burns Friday in Beirut, Lebanon.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/09/beirut.violence/index.html


After all that huffing and puffing peace deal talks a couple weeks ago in Qatar, Lebanon still doesn't have a president ?

Hezbollah, Lebanese Government Reach Peace Deal Ending 18-Month Political Stalemate

May 28, 2008

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/hezbollah-lebanese-govern_n_102879.html


go figger! Nobody seems worried about questioning the foot dragging as a follow up story ?

With Its Growing Clout, Hezbollah Seen As Greater Threat Than Al-Qaeda

May 30, 2008

The growing threat posed by Hezbollah and other terror organizations was among the topics addressed Thursday at a nine-nation security conference held in Jerusalem

snip

Trained, supported and equipped by Iran's elite commando Revolutionary Guards, Hezbollah is considered by experts to be the most highly developed terrorist organization in the world. It also is the strongest military force in Lebanon.

Hezbollah pioneered suicide bombing attacks, which included the bombing of a U.S. peacekeeping force in Lebanon in 1982 and the bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996. It is currently armed with missiles, advanced explosives and controls operatives throughout the world, Chertoff said in a speech last month.

snip
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=/ForeignBureaus/archive/200805/FOR20080530b.html

Saber rattle the price of crude another $10 bbl so we all pay the price of war at the pump.


No Independence from foreign oil going to be declared this July 4rth.

Mission accomplished ?

[FogerRox]

83. Old, liquid fueled, takes hours to fuel them up

[ohio2007]

5. brinksmanship played out by the MSM for the MSM nt

[skoalyman]

11. great 145-150 oil here we come

:puke:

[Barrett808]

26. Don't kid yourself: $200 oil within days, if the US attacks

Iran provides 10% of the world's oil, and there's no swing capacity to make up the difference.

[Frisbee]

30. Not to mention...

Tankers leaving the area will be uninsurable.

[natrat]

35. no way , easily way over 200 with the hysteria

[ohio2007]

40. and thats what is currently being "played" by the MSM nt

[ohio2007]

38. How much if Iran just launches those missiles in a preemptive strike?

ya know
they KNOW a strike IS coming so poof the missiles fly over Iraq and Syria nipping the attack in the bud using conventional warheads ?


WTF will that do really ?


An Israeli sub launches an incinerates Tehran afterwards....

yes
PROOF an attack by Israel WAS imminent.


This is like JFK's October crises imo

[Barrett808]

63. That's a fun scenario -- over $200/bbl easily

Go long on oil!

[bronxiteforever]

72. The Second Great Depression

[FogerRox]

159. Correction, 2nd Great Republican Depression

[harun]

87. Absolutely, over 200 within a week.

[Doctor_J]

108. WW III would be great for Murdoch and his ilk

They could great videos and an excuse to keep the GOP in the WH by cancelling the elections this November.

[Arctic Dave]

20. Iran is becoming a major player in "Lets fleece the US" game.

Everytime someone mouths off, oil goes higher, which in turn makes the peolpe mouthing off more money. This week its Iran's turn to talk smack, last week it was Isreal and the week before that is was *'s. Isn't this a fun game. Don't forget to bring your wallet.

[Spouting Horn]

36. You're right

It's sad that so many thugs have so much control over the price of oil.

[natrat]

37. the bushies are in on this game, part of the grand scam

[dipsydoodle]

23. Presumably the forum currently known as Israel/Palestine

will just become Palestine. :shrug:

[L0oniX]

27. I don't believe any of this shit. Where's the proof? Show me the fucking proof damn it all.

Do the asscarrots really think we are going to believe them after all the lying they've done?

:evilfrown:

"I disagree with what the majority of the American people want." John McCain

[ohio2007]

41. Thats what JFK said in ' 62

Don't drill offshore
Don't drill onshore
shut down solar research

We must keep the best interests of the people in mind.

As they drive their tax payer supplied SUV's inside the beltway

George Carlin was right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU&feature=related

[defendandprotect]

31. Looks like the formula for nuclear holocaust triggered by neo-con insanity ---

[defendandprotect]

33. "Boys will be boys" . . .

Though Thatcher was also a problem ---

and Albright . .. who knows how far she would have gone --- too far!

[whistle]

39. Hasn't Iran done this before? For example I recall that in 2007 sometime

...Israel reporting that their nuclear power facilities were targeted by Iranian missiles.

When the West and Israel start doing their saber rattling at Iran, I would think that positioning their missiles at selective targets in Israel would be routine

[ohio2007]

47. follow the graph surge

Middle East Supply Interruptions
Yom Kippur War - Arab Oil Embargo

In 1972 the price of crude oil was about $3.00 per barrel and by the end of 1974 the price of oil had quadrupled to over $12.00. The Yom Kippur
War started with an attack on Israel
by Syria and Egypt on October 5, 1973. The United States and many countries in the western world showed support for Israel. As a result of this support several Arab exporting nations imposed an embargo on the countries supporting Israel. While Arab nations curtailed production by 5 million barrels per day (MMBPD) about 1 MMBPD was made up by increased production in other countries. The net loss of 4 MMBPD extended through March of 1974 and represented 7 percent of the free world production.

If there was any doubt that the ability to control crude oil prices had passed from the United States to OPEC it was removed during the Arab Oil Embargo. The extreme sensitivity of prices to supply shortages became all too apparent when prices increased 400 percent in six short months.

From 1974 to 1978 world crude oil prices were relatively flat ranging from $12.21 per barrel to $13.55 per barrel. When adjusted for inflation the price over that period of time world oil prices were in a period of moderate decline

Crises in Iran and Iraq
Events in Iran and Iraq led to another round of crude oil price increases in 1979 and 1980.

snip
US Oil Price Controls - Bad Policy?
The rapid increase in crude prices from 1973 to 1981 would have been much less were it not for United States energy policy during the post Embargo period. The US imposed price controls on domestically produced oil in an attempt to lessen the impact of the 1973-74 price increase. The obvious result of the price controls was that U.S. consumers of crude oil paid about 50 percent more for imports than domestic production and U.S producers received less than world market price. In effect, the domestic petroleum industry was subsidizing the U.s. consumer.

snip
OPEC's Failure to Control Crude Oil Prices

OPEC has seldom been effective at controlling prices.

snip


http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm

Events control the price of oil.

[readmoreoften]

43. New Poll: (A) Made Up Bullshit or (B) Not Made Up Bullshit or (C)

(C) WHO FUCKING KNOWS???

Didn't Iran also attack one of our boats? I think Cheney showed a 16 millimeter color film print of some sailors of the coast of Miami in 1964 for proof or something. Or it was like bad 80s video and one guy had jerry curls and the other had a mullet.

Didn't China just try to take our oil from Key West or something according to Cheney too?

I mean the asshole lies so fucking much you can't even keep track.

My theory is, he's trying to push up the oil market so HE can make money.

Who knows anymore? The world is nothing but a playground for rich lunatic fucks and their paid off bobbleheads on the MSM and in the Congress.

[Phred42]

48. Makes Sense -Given the Sy Hersh article today

Preparing the Battlefield


The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran.


by Seymour M. Hersh July 7, 2008
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

[Pavulon]

50. Israel is not the US.

any action by Israel would not directly involve the US. Any response that did involve the US would be an act of war and lead to categorical destruction of everything of any value within Iran.

This is dangerous and could easily escalate and cost the lives of many people in Iran.

[Phred42]

51. If This thing begins... Everyone will be involved

everyone that isn't already....

[Pavulon]

54. In theory, that would be a choice

of the power that was attacked. An Iranian response involving US assets to an Israeli strike would be very bad for them.

Based on syria's luck it seems the s300 failed to function as designed.

Hopefully Iran will not be attacked and decide they do not need 3800 centrifuges for a peaceful nuclear program.

[Pavulon]

49. What that means, KH-11 and others

have fixed their positions. Satellite are probably tracking anything worth blowing up, looking for heat plumes, and submarines tracking anything worth sinking.

Iran is no doubt checking systems, we are no doubt probing them to find out how to thread the needle if airplanes are required.

Ohio class subs are standing by in the event that the situation gets out of hand. In the event the US is attacked in response to Israel's potential actions we would initiate a strategic bombing in Iran.

An attack on the US without US first strikes would be an act of war, and would give the Navy and USAF something to do with all the ordinance they have on hand.

Aegis systems are no doubt on hand to assist in the destruction of anything taking a ballistic arc in the region. I would assume other ground based defenses are also spinning.

Normally these threads are dismissed as no real chance of action. However with the comment that iran could have a weapon in 6 months from iaea I would peg it at 50/50 a strike is launched.

Actions is Syria proved the world (the ones that matter) are not prepared to react.

[awoke_in_2003]

60. If Ohio's are involved...

that sentence should read "we would initiate a strategic NUCLEAR bombing in Iran". Yes, the Ohio's can launch non-nuclear cruise missiles. But why expose where they are when the Los Angeles attack class subs can do the same thing?

[Pavulon]

74. My refrence was to a nuclear

response or chem bio act on us strategic assets in the region. That will never happen, but that is why they are there.

I wonder if oil will go up?

[FogerRox]

86. Ohio Boomer ? have been refitted with Tomahawks, look it up

Aegis, the Phalynx guns suck & are being replaced by point defense rocket pacs. Look it up




ANd the missile cited in the OP is a old liquid fueled rocket on a truck. I looked it up for you.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/solid-prop.htm



Plus Iran is about 7,000 centrifuges from having a real bomb program.

[fascisthunter]

52. I Can't Believe Pro-War Pro-Israelis

get to spin shit for an attack on DU. Disgusting....

I could care less what nationalistic brainwashing any one here is infected by, attacking another nation preemptivly and supporting it here should be disallowed on DU. It's disgusting!

[bean fidhleir]

57. Right on! Any attack is a crime against peace, the most heinous in international law

Support for it definitely should be a slate-cookie offense.

[dixiegrrrrl]

68. I agree

attacking another nation preemptivly should be disallowed on DU.

Unfortunately, what Bush "should" do or not do in the "real" world is another story.

But I'm sure no one here at DU is going to war against any nation on these threads.

[Psyop Samurai]

56. Is it too far fetched to suggest that Israel has been taken over by manchurians...

...bent on Israel's destruction?

I mean, a few years ago such a statement regarding the US would have seemed preposterous, and yet many of us now accept it as self-evident.

I don't know..., something about nazis being "pro-Israel" has never rung true to me.

:shrug:

[Dr.Phool]

59. Well, John Hagee said the Nazi's were looking out for Israels interests,

So it must be true.

Him and McCain talk to God all the time, you know?

[Gman]

61. They don't want to stop it. They won't stop it.

There's entirely too much money to be made from it.

Bottom line. End of story. That's all they are about. It's not about power. It's all about money.

[SOS]

64. A small group will get very rich

The oil speculators are betting on an unprovoked attack by US/Israel on Iran.
That $150 contract will be worth $300 the next day.
They don't care if gas goes to $10 a gallon, destroying the US economy.
They'll get their billions in profits and can always retire to Zurich or St. Barts.

On edit:

From Gore Vidal, 6/28/08:

"They managed to destroy the United States - why? Because they're oil and gas people and they're essentially criminals."

And they're not done yet!

[Baby Snooks]

62. The winds of war....

The winds of war are being fanned in different directions. But most of them fanned by Washington.

It's a shame the Empress can't wave her scepter and take war off the table but then the Emperor wants war on the table.

It's good for business as they say.

[Hulk]

65. Pardon me...but from what I've read in the last few days..I can't blame them a bit!!

With the saber rattling that our press has been doing with the "inevitable attack" by Israel to the nuclear targets inside of Iran, I think I'd be following the same steps. Does this make sense to anyone else???

You threaten to attack me, I will initiate deterrents. End of statement. What a bunch of dumb asses if you didn't expect them to do something. Should they just roll over and play dead until Israel or the US attacks?? Get real neocons!

[madrchsod]

66. "Iran warns of missile strike | Environment | The Observer"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/jan/29/energy.nuclearindustry

Iran warns of missile strike against Israel
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=121160

Iran warns of missile strike against Israel
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=121160




- Murdoch and the israeli press has very different headlines

Iran ready to strike at Israel’s nuclear heart - Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4232021.ece


Report: Iran has 600 targets for missile strike in Israel if attacked - Haaretz - Israel News
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/881985.html


'Iranian missiles aimed at Dimona reactor' | Jerusalem Post
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1214492525162




- Sometimes new news is old news

Newspaper: Iran commander warns of missile strike against Israel if attacked - International Herald Tribune

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/06/28/africa/ME-GEN-Iran-US-Israel.php

‘US Ready to Strike Iran on Good Friday’ - CommonDreams.org

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/02/262/



- Of course the assholes are already at work.......

Email Worm Claims Missile Strike Against Iran
http://antivirus.about.com/b/2007/04/08/email-worm-claims-missile-strike-against-iran.htm



-Oh well, i guess we will wait and see

[FogerRox]

107. Thank you for a sane comment

[lostnotforgotten]

67. Is This Carefully Placed Propaganda, Shades Of Iraq?

eom

[FMArouet]

71. Note that "The Times" of London is a News Corp./Rupert Murdoch outlet,...

so we can also expect similar hysteria from Fox News, The Wall Street Journal, and the New York Post. Murdoch will print whatever the neocons and VP Cheney's office tell him to print.

After Israel's practice long-range bombing run over Greece earlier in the month, it is of course only rational for Iran to display some muscle-flexing in response to make it clear that an attack on Iran would not be painless for the initiator.

All the same, we need to take Murdoch's obedient relay of Cheney's propaganda with a bit of skepticism. Cheney may be trying to provoke one last pointless war in an effort to reframe the domestic political conversation (and maybe even boost McCain's prospects) and also help Big Oil (and the Texas millionaires who serve as the funding foundation of the Republican Party) collect yet another big helping of profit and wealth accumulation before entering the post-Rovian political wilderness.

But there are still a few adults left in Washington, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates appears to be one of them. Now if Gates were suddenly to resign, as CENTCOM Commander Admiral William J. Fallon, did this spring, then we would know what the Bush/Cheney White House would intend to do to Iran in the near future. That would be the time to buy sacks of beans and rice and ponder the multiple, cascading economic effects of $250 a barrel oil.

[Malikshah]

73. Thank You- This should be the first thing people should have mentioned.

Where's the CNN coverage?

[Baclava]

80. Doesn't this just up the ante for Israel to use nukes?

Playing blind man's global-thermonuclear-war bluff.


The plot thickens...

[Pavulon]

82. No, Iran is hollow, unlike the arab wars of the past

involving powerful nations with sophisticated weapons. Iran has no modern systems that would prevent a first strike by Israel.

If they did not use them in the previous wars against regional powers, why use them against a shell of a country?

[FogerRox]

90. Wrong. the Tor-M1, Pechora-2A & S-300PMU-2, we're not talking SAM 6 & SAM-11 here.

globalsecurity.org According to a 7 December 2005 "Defense Update" commentary, "when deployed in an integrated network, an array of S-300 and Tor M-1 systems could pose a highly potent defensive network against any aggressor."

@ janes...." the presence of these missiles will "create major problems for planners for years to come."

No modern systems my ass.

[Pavulon]

92. Syria was a s300 customer..

maybe their systems were in the shop..

Janes will not let me link the page

[FogerRox]

137. Yes, I know. Janes killed my old link. So when was Syria going to use the s300 ?

Refresh my memory.

[Pavulon]

142. Around the reactor

Israel blew up with f-15's a few months ago.

They may want their money back.
http://www.janes.com/press/features/pr070518_1.shtml

[FogerRox]

155. I would locate my s300's to guard important sites

So of course there never was a nuclear installation. At least thats one theory. I take the story with a grain of salt, afterall it came from Bush.

[Pavulon]

157. CHeck out a map of syria and then the range

of the s300. I would assume they track Israeli jets. I assume they would attempt to shoot them down for invading their airspace.

[FogerRox]

158. Where is the supposed reactor ?

My info on Syrian s300 is they got 2 batteries. Range is about 125 miles. 2 batteries is enough to cover your capital city and military HQ, well sort of.

[FogerRox]

81. Give me a fucking break. Ignorant article @ Times.

Check this shit out.....

OmG, the situation is dire..... no ? The person who wrote this article is an ass hat, 100% jerk off. Heres why:


The Times article says Iran moved its Shahab-3B missiles to launch position. Sounds ominous, right ?
M:

So launch position means upright.....

Then the article says

President George Bush has approved the linking of Israel to a US infrared satellite detection system that could spot Shahab missile launches within seconds. This should enable the Israeli air force to destroy such missiles in the booster stage. The system will also give the Israelis about 15 minutes to seek shelter before any warhead hits.

So the Israelis have about 15 minutes notice... right ... no.... they would have hours. The Shahab-3B missile is a liquid fueled missile, it takes hours to load the liquid propellant onto the missile. And without a source of liquid propellant, like a truck which would be visible by satellite, no missile gets launched.



Why do you bother posting this crap ? Its not even remotely fact checked.

[thewiseguy]

85. A truck would be visible by satellite?

Where do you think these missiles are? Or the trucks are located?

In the middle of desert for the satellite to pickem up?

Please...:shrug:

[FogerRox]

88. They have to be fueled. And that takes hours, and a fuel source. Hours they are sitting ducks

Why do you think Saudi Arabia replaced their old liquid fueled missiles.....

[thewiseguy]

93. Iran and Saudi Arabia have different terrains

Their nuclear and missile programs are mostly concealed under mountains. My bet is the satellites will never see a truck fueling the missile.

[FogerRox]

100. Your bet, LOL, the porpellant plant is SE of Semnan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semnan

Care to continue ?

[thewiseguy]

105. So what?

[FogerRox]

110. Thank you sir for making my point. Care to go another round ? You go first.

[thewiseguy]

111. You have not answered my question

What is your point and what are you trying to advocate?

That we go to war with Iran? That we should not worry about their ability to strike back?

[FogerRox]

112. I sir, advocate for facts.

[thewiseguy]

114. I did not ask you where the plant was

[thewiseguy]

116. Since you are interested in facts

You may want to read this:

Iran has already demonstrated a three stage operation with the solid propellant Ghadr-110/Ashura program 2,000 km range designed is now being produced for deployment which has finally been publicly acknowledged after completing development to replace the liquid propellant Shahab-3B, 3C/Ghadr-1 already deployed

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/solid-prop.htm

[FogerRox]

123. Very good sir, the Shahab-3B is obsolete. Sometihng about taking 8 hrs to ready for launch

makes them useless.

Congrats on actually reading the link I provided. You are the cream that rises to the top.

[tuckessee]

178. Don't you have an association with the US Navy? n/t

[FogerRox]

195. I work in campaigns. Though my dad served on a carrier in WW2.

[FogerRox]

119. New Saudi missiles are underground, SIR. Iranian Shahab-3 are liquid fueled

Their sole propellant plant is SE of Semnan

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/solid-prop.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semnan

Not under a mountain as you erroneously claim.

Saudi missile silos buried:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/4/13653/75021

Care to make some erroneous claims ?

[thewiseguy]

120. Ghadr and Ashura are newer versions of Shahab with solid fuel

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2008_01-02/solidfuel.asp

[FogerRox]

133. So they took the liquid fuel out and put in solid fuel.... I jest.

They are likely derived from the Chinese DF-11A and DF-15A, the Chinese M-9 technology. Not the Shahab.

AS this blog suspects

http://hometown.aol.de/SLVehicles2/Dong%20Feng/DF.htm

And apparently global security doesnt list them, as in service.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/missile.htm

Iran has had too many problems learning solid fuel technology, I assume that global security thinks they are still experimental.

[Zhade]

89. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. "Sources" are never just made up to sell lies.

No, that never happens.

We're not stupid enough to fall for this shit.

[MinM]

94. Rupert Murdoch's paper beating the drums for war?

That's a shocker :sarcasm:

[FogerRox]

98. Exact-a-mundo, liquid fuel missiles take hours to fuel up..... which is why they are obsolete...

[alfredo]

140. And they stand out in infrared.

[FogerRox]

143. But dont let the facts get in the of some good old fear mongering in the OP

[alfredo]

144. It's Sunday, the day for fear mongering, guilt, and false piety.

[Political Heretic]

95. Now bear with me here before you freak out....... but good for them.

I'm sorry, but that's what the United States would do -- imagine of some country with the capacity to strike us, started running public war exercises simulating an attack on is, and publicly called for us to be attacked. We wouldn't just "point" missiles in their direction in a defensive stance. This rogue state would take "preemptive" action and blow them to mars.

Somehow lost in the issue of whether or not we "like" Iran and think its a "good" country or not is the fact of a sovereign nations right to defend itself. Of course Iran should respond to direct threats of attack against it in a defensive posture. If it was the US, it would have already fired its missiles. But thankfully, Iran is sometimes more sane than we are - how's that for depressing irony.

[Pavulon]

101. Iran is hollow, the US and USSR were not

the us used careful language to run the cold war. We managed not to start a nuclear war. If the US strikes Iran it is not our problem unless Iran chooses to make it our problem.

We don't need to make threats to Iran, our capacity is well known. Israel has the capacity to damage Iran.

Iran is playing a dangerous game with the NPT. The comment that it could have a bomb in six months raise the risk of an attack.

[Political Heretic]

109. We didn't use carefully language to deal with the "Iraq threat"

I think that would be my point.

[Pavulon]

118. We are not discussing nuclear war.

not that Iraq was not a massive mess. It served no us interests.

[Political Heretic]

122. We're not discussing nuclear war here either, unless you mean just from our side.

[Pavulon]

131. Correct, Iran is hollow, so they make hollow threats

they have no way of defending themselves from a determined attack from Israel. If they attacked us that would only compound a bad situation.

[Zachstar]

115. You are going to see how sane they are when those missiles are armed with bioweapons.

Dont be stupid. Iran knows those missiles cant do shit as is and half will be downed by defence systems and another half of that half will be downed by failures.

Iran's leaders are evil mother fuckers. We do not want war but do not think for one second that this is going to end up lovely if it happens.

[Political Heretic]

125. Who's fault with that be?

The agressors or the defenders?

[Zachstar]

127. Using bioweapons is a crime against humanity period.

[Pavulon]

129. Iran's because that act would

end in them being incinerated by israel.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zachstar]

166. Do you think they do not have Bioweapons?

Please don't make me laugh.

We do not want war with Iran because of the results dragging generations into horror filled times. But that does not need to include apologists for Iran.

They know if they go to war they will die. So while they are trying to make peace with bits of talk you can bet your ass that they are getting prepared to go down in history. If the IAF attacks they will consider it a holy war and before you know it the book on warfare will be thrown out and they do not care if the response to a bio weapon attack is a nuke.

So lets not get stupid here. This is NOT going to be Iraq 2.0!


Before you say it. Yes, If Iran just shoots conventional warheads then its a normal war and I wont give a shit. (Well except at the pump paying 6 USD with rationing as Iran uses its Kilo submarines to sink tankers) But make no mistake. If Iran shoots bioweapons the blood will be on their hands.

[FogerRox]

170. Sick.

[ooglymoogly]

97. What on earth must it be like dealing from that head

Israel attacks Iran on trumped up propaganda = retaliation by Iran to defend its self (and that point is debatable); Retaliation by Iran = Hr. Hannibal Lecter Boosh giddily slobbering and drooling at the mouth, with one hand on the all out war button and the other on the Martial Law proclamation he has been preparing since his first inauguration and it all begins. The powder keg will be lit and it will not just be Iran who suffers. If this should happen we are all in for one of life's most wrenching sea changes...as if the last 8 years have not been catastrophic enough.

[Megahurtz]

200. Well said.

And I hope this does not happen. :scared:

[Andrushka]

103. "defence sources said last week"

UK or US... hello?

What they SAY and what is actually TRUE... need I remind anyone here of that often very large gap?

[Xipe Totec]

104. Is this part of the covert US operations against Iran?

U.S. escalating covert operations against Iran: report

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. congressional leaders agreed late last year to President George W. Bush's funding request for a major escalation of covert operations against Iran aimed at destabilizing its leadership, according to a report in The New Yorker magazine published online on Sunday.

The article by reporter Seymour Hersh, from the magazine's July 7 and 14 issue, centers on a highly classified Presidential Finding signed by Bush which by U.S. law must be made known to Democratic and Republican House and Senate leaders and ranking members of the intelligence committees.

"The Finding was focused on undermining Iran's nuclear ambitions and trying to undermine the government through regime change," the article cited a person familiar with its contents as saying, and involved "working with opposition groups and passing money."



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080629/pl_nm/bush_iran_report_dc_3

[FogerRox]

134. And see the raection, all these DUers dropping turds on the carpet like so many scared elephants

Thats what ignorance does for ya..... THe OP cites an obsolete liquid fueled missile.... The whole friggin region has missiles, its been like that for decades, but no one blew themsleves up.

An OP like this, is crying wolf.

And it does a disservice to those of us who remain vigilant.

[Faygo Kid]

121. Seems to me that Cheney is busy in his bunker.

Gee, the same reliable "intelligence" sources that gave us WMDs in Iraq are "leaking" again.

What a surprise.

[Mr Rabble]

126. US and Israeli leaders say and do this sort of thing all the time.

Why is it suddenly big news when Iran mentions that their missles can hit Israel?

The answer is that this is the sort of thing we do to them- not the other way around.

[Dinger]

128. stopiranwar.com

Remember that?

[michaz]

130. Israel and the US need to keep their mouths shut and quit

intimidating countries before they get us in a mess we can't get out of!!

[Pavulon]

132. "We will wipe israel off the map" + "6 months to nuke"

mean something happening to iran is very possible.

[MinM]

148. We will wipe israel off the map+6 months to nuke=WMD+MushroomClouds

Or the taking babies out of incubators myth.

[Pavulon]

149. Iran made the statement, not rice.

they put that language out in public. They are being sanctioned by the EU and UN.

[MinM]

150. Actually that was disinformattion from the dubious MEMRI

Selective Memri | World dispatch | Guardian Unlimited

As we have known for some time now, MEMRI, short for the Middle East Media Research Institute, specializes in disinformation by distorting translations of film and print media stories originating in Arabic, Iranian and Turkish media. In essence, what MEMRI does is change the context of news stories by way of mistranslation and excision. Call it MEMRI loss, the deliberate mangling of media.

MEMRI did this to Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by turning a speech he delivered in 2005 into a racist and genocidal screed. MEMRI accomplished this through mistranslation. Not a day passes now we do not witness corporate media claims Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map. In fact, Ahmadinejad said the “regime that is occupying Qods must be eliminated from the pages of history.” He did not say Israel must be wiped off the map. But this engineered lie is repeated constantly by the corporate media and to such a degree it is now accepted as fact.

[Pavulon]

151. Ahmadinejad has recently made comments about israel

so that explanation will not do. He is an idiot and zealot and placing his country in a dangerous position.


he is a world class asshole.

On Israel's 60th birthday, Ahmadinejad gave a speech, in which, according to the official IRNA news agency, he stated

Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken. Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation."<67>

Ahmadinejad also stated that Israel "has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese", which is presumably a reference to the July-August 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah.

In a subsequent speech, Ahmadinejad stated "The Zionist regime is dying," and that "The criminals imagine that by holding celebrations (...) they can save the Zionist regime from death." Ahmadinejad also stated that "They should know that regional nations hate this fake and criminal regime and if the smallest and briefest chance is given to regional nations they will destroy (it)".<68>

Statement on Israel on the Anniversary of Death of Ayatollah Khomeini

While speaking at a gathering of foreign guests marking this week's 19th anniversary of the death of Iran's late revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the official IRNA news agency quoted Ahmadinejad as stating that

"You should know that the criminal and terrorist Zionist regime which has 60 years of plundering, aggression and crimes in its file has reached the end of its work and will soon disappear off the geographical scene."<69>

[FogerRox]

161. No linky, no respect

[Pavulon]

193. Link of all kinds of crazy blabber attached

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

[Zachstar]

168. DAMN! Ahmadinejad, You Fucking idiot!

WILL YOU PLEASE STOP FUCKING EGGING ON AN ATTACK!!

Well atleast one good thing in a shitstorm of bad. Atleast nobody will have to deal with his idiot shit anymore.

[and-justice-for-all]

172. Ahmadinejad is the messenger..

not the decider, all national matters and final decisions are up to the Ayatollahs.

Ahmadinejad is what Bush is to Cheney.

[Zhade]

164. "6 months to a nuke" is a lie, though. THEY DO NOT HAVE NUKES.

Stop advocating collective punishment. it wasn't acceptable when the Nazis did it, either.

[Pavulon]

194. Your use of "Advocacy" is disturbing

there is no one here to advocate to. Unless we have people here that make policy I am speculating on the significance of press releases.

Israel reads the news..

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17062320-23109,00.html

[jeff30997]

145. "before they get us in a mess we can't get out of"

Gee,the never did that in the past did they.

Israel and the US will attack as planned by the Neoclowns.

Just before a major Election,what a coincidence.Argh! :banghead:

[michaz]

153. Nukes? n/t

[skoalyman]

156. pukes

:puke: let me guess more wag the dog oils rising but but looky there at Iran

[NoodleyAppendage]

165. This escalation could have been stopped by Dems if Pelosi hadn't taken something off the table...

When we start bombing the crap out of Iran and become embroiled in a larger Middle East war, a goodly share of the blood spilt will be the FAULT of our spineless, worthless Democratic Congressional leadership. Bush is INSANE, yet he gets his way repeatedly because the Dem Congressional leadership is without the principal or guts to stand up to him.

J

[bdamomma]

182. oh, Nancy is in the backpocket of AIPAC

[and-justice-for-all]

171. Postureing...

Iran will not start the fight, they will most likely be forced to defend their selves. This is no different that the aircraft carriers off Iran's coast.

[Zachstar]

175. You don't understand.

Because of the way things are we WILL go in if Iran declares war on Israel.

So if Israel attacks and Iran declares war by launching an attack into Israeli territory then we have to declare war.

The only way Iran can survive this is to take it and do absolutely nothing outside of point defense (Attacking inbound craft only as the aircraft come in to attack). And I pray they do so. We don't need another war!

If Iran fires those missiles there will be war. If what I fear is true and they are laced with bioweapons then there will be nuclear war.

[readmoreoften]

177. I'm guessing it's going to go quicker than that. We're just going to bomb their nuclear sites.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html

[MinM]

183. Ex-weapons inspector says Iran not pursuing nukes, but U.S. will attack before ‘09

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3427.shtml

[ohio2007]

184. Syria put troops in Lebanon ahead of Israeli drill - report

snip
The report, published in Jane's Defense Weekly earlier this month, said that images obtained through DigitalGlobe show Syrian troops being deployed in the remote and rugged hills north of the Lebanese town of Rashaya al-Wadi. The report added that these maneuvers took place just before Israel was due to hold a five-day nationwide response drill in early April.
snip

According to the report, entitled "Middle ground: Lebanon plays buffer as Syria and Israel simmer," the Syrian bases are "aimed solely at creating a defensive line in the event of an Israeli military advance and are not conduits for weaponry" smuggled from Syria to Hizbullah.

Syria's reinforcement of troops ahead of the Israeli drill suggests a deep mistrust between the two states, despite recent peace overtures, according to Jane's.

"The deployment suggests mutual mistrust remains and hence peace negotiations will struggle to succeed," Jane's said about recent Turkish-brokered indirect peace talks between Israel and Syria.

snip

The "little-known presence of Syrian troops in Lebanon demonstrates that, despite the peace talks between the two sides confirmed in simultaneous announcements in Syria and Israel on 21 May 2008, mutual mistrust continues to characterize regional relationships.

"As a result ... negotiations are likely to be fraught while military preparedness will remain high," it said. - The Daily Star



http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=93635


http://lebanonnewsnetwork.com/?p=481

I'm sure they only want to maintain control of the roads throgh the Bekka valley incase prisoner exchanges go bad

[ohio2007]

189. Iran slams Jordan support for terrorism

Iran's Foreign Ministry has summoned Jordan's ambassador to Tehran over his country's support for terrorism in the Middle East.

The Foreign Ministry's Department for Middle East Affairs summoned Jordanian envoy Ahmad Jalal al-Meflah on Monday and expressed Tehran's disapproval over the attendance of Jordanian parliamentarians at a rally in Paris on Sunday. The rally, organized by the Mujahedin Khalq Organization (MKO), was directed at pressuring the European Union into removing the group from its list of terrorist groups.

Al-Meflah, for his part, said Jordanian King Abdullah II bin al-Hussein will not recognize the terrorist group. He added that Tehran's concerns will, however, be conveyed to Amman. The MKO, blacklisted as a terrorist group by many countries and international organizations, has claimed responsibility for many terror attacks inside Iran.

Members of the terrorist group have also assisted former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in the massacre of thousands of Iraqi civilians and were transferred to a camp in northeastern Baghdad where they enjoy US protection.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=62065

Guess these MKO guys are the ones to fill the 320,000 graves made by Iran;

Jordan, next haven for MKO terrorists?

Jordan will reportedly provide sanctuary for the terrorist organization MKO amid speculations that the group will soon be expelled from Iraq.


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http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=60640

Jordan is on the hot seat with Iran for taking in a group that Saddam allowed to base in Iraq ?

Something explosive may be brewing against Jordan in the minds of the paranoid;

Ex-Iranian envoy says Ahmadinejad was target of radiation in Rome

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"On the eve of the president's visit to Rome, we checked the radiation levels in his temporary residence," Abolfazi Zohrevand told Iran's IRNA news agency.

"We found out that the radiation was higher than normal and its intensity was rapidly increasing," he said, adding that several devices were used to avoid potential error in readings, but they all showed the same results.

Earlier, Ahmadinejad himself mentioned another assassination attempt during his March visit to Baghdad and said only changes to his schedule had foiled the plot. However, the West and even some inner Iranian circles dismissed his allegations.


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http://en.rian.ru/world/20080630/112609309.html

He does think somebody is going to climb out of a well and rescue Islam soon. He just needs to prepare the way of the mahdi.
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[Megahurtz]

197. Oh Fuck.

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