National Average = $4 Bucks a Gallon

[ballsalicious]

Source: WLTX

(WLTX)- There are a lot of things you can do with $4 and by a gallon of gas just became the latest one.

The American Automobile Association released their latest gas price report Sunday morning and for the first time in history the national average exceeded $4 per gallon. The report is updated every day through a survey of more than 100,000 gas stations.

The report shows that South Carolina, with an average at about $3.80, is the second lowest in the nation to Missouri. In Columbia our prices have risen 30 cents in the last month and nearly 90 cents in the past year.

You can follow the daily gas report at www.aaa.com.



Read more: http://www.wltx.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=62845

[4dsc]

1. Good and bad...

Its good that gas prices reflect the reality that most American's have been missing for the past 2 decades.. Oil is finite and now its more valuable than ever.

The bad is American's will continue to waste this resource with little regard for future generations.. I don't $4 is high enough to change many people's outlook and look forward to gas going much higher.. Only then will American consumer culture change for the better..

[Double T]

2. Ahhhh.... there won't be a culture left if energy prices go higher.

The US is going down the tubes and the severity of our situation won't be known until bush and cheney are out of office. In Election Years EVERYTHING is candy coated BS.

[4dsc]

13. Sorry but it time the sheeple woke up to a little reality..

We need higher gas prices to kill demand because supply cannot keep up.. But the overall bigger problem is not some shortsighted solution like a gas tax holiday or drilling in Anwar.. We need to realize the era of cheap oil is over and that we will need to live on less oil in the future, and plan on living on alot less oil in decades to come..

So how do we educate the lazy American consumer, who has been programmed for the past two decades, to "shop till you drop"?? We are not living in a sustainable culture by any means.. We need leadership but that's not coming from either party at this time.. We also need an energy plan, one the US has never had.. We need to look decades down the road instead of just till the next election..

[Muttocracy]

31. I agree about the long-term, but it's hard in the short term

(see comments in post 30 below - basically, this is happening faster than people can adjust)

[ScottytheRadical]

39. I'm sorry, but gasoline is an esstenial commodity

I'm incredibly irritated by your characterization of the "the lazy American consumer". Until we have an AFFORDABLE alternative energy source that isn't going to cause half the world's population to starve (IE Biodiesel), people still need it to get around.

Gasoline prices hit everyone. In Portland, for example, our transit fares are going up 14% because of diesel prices. So even those of us who aren't able to drive or who choose not to are being hurt by this.

It is misguided and classist to blame the worker for the inherent flaws in the capitalist economic system. Do you know why gas prices are going up? Really? Because of COMMODITY SPECULATORS. Not because supply has suddenly drastically dropped, or because people in China are suddenly using gasoline (how dare they have the nerve to use the only viable energy source in the world to get around!), but because traders are driving the price up. There's a great article on it in Socialist Worker: http://socialistworker.org/2008/05/19/gambling-with-futures

[kestrel91316]

92. CONSERVATION of energy is a more "essential" measure than

gasoline is an "essential" commodity. And I sure don't see much conservation going on in the US yet.

Driving less, using AC less, making meals at home from scratch rather than eating fast food, eating lots less factory meat, buying lots less crap from a world away.........all forms of conservation that don't seem to be catching on.

I have almost NO faith in this nation's ability to face this challenge. The sheeple are truly clueless about what they must do to avert catastrophe.

[ScottytheRadical]

38. It's wrong to blame this on "consumer culture"

Attacking Americans for using gasoline is a superficial analysis, one that doesn't look at the problem of how our cities have been planned and funds for public transportation have been strangled over the past several decades.

In many of the sprawlbelt cities in this country, the working poor have moved to suburbs because of cheaper housing prices, and suburbs lack an adequate public transportation system. Therefore, working-class Americans are *forced* drive whether they really want to or not.

It's a problem with the way our cities have been planned by greedy developers and the way public transit has been destroyed by car companies and anti-public-anything politicians. Don't blame the American worker for the faults of our system.

[jzodda]

54. Bad for poor people in rural areas

What are they supposed to do? No access to public transportation and very low wages already. The article in today's NY times is sad. People having to eat less or not pay other bills because gas now eats as much per month as food and rent.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Best fill up while it's still cheap then.

.

[Maureen1322]

4. I wonder if Bush still finds this "interesting".

[onehandle]

5. The ranks of the poor will increase substantially and crime will skyrocket over the next year.

The next President is being set up.

[Zachstar]

6. To be the most historic president of all time.

Obama can knock this out of the park.

#1 Declare a state of economic emergency and start routing the reserves into the economy with threats of a dump to somewhat freeze oil prices for a bit.

#2 EMC2 fusion MAY be able to start coming online before the 2012 elections. (We will know if it is possible sometime this year likely)

#3 Tell the truth that the oil based economy is coming to an end and people NEED to get off their asses. Remove taxes on basic gardening equipment and basic food seeds.

[kestrel91316]

93. Remove taxes on home food processing/preservation tools/equipment, too.

Heck, SUBSIDIZE home food production with free vegetable seeds and fruit tree saplings, and tax credits for chickens and dairy goats.

Yes, I'm dead serious.

[Zachstar]

7. Im more worried about truckers.

Many are already parking their rigs with some starting to find new lines of work.

They have reached diminishing returns when it comes to raising shipping prices to counter diesel prices.

Any higher and there is going to be rig after rig off the road for good and with no effective way to transport cheaply.. Businesses will start to collapse.

Depression.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. how long can you keep a gallon of gas in one of those travel canisters?

if I bought one now, would it go bad in like a year?

[Heywood J]

26. Three months, tops.

Gas doesn't have a shelf-life, so to speak. Using it beyond three months or so, you risk clogging your fuel system or worse - it breaks down.

Ask someone with a snowblower or a lawnmower if they've ever used old gas.

[nebby]

37. bad gas

I haven't put gas in my car (which I haven't really used this year) since November. It's at half a tank.

I'm wondering if it would be better to syphon out the gas, or fill-up with new gas.

Any ideas?

[Art_from_Ark]

40. You'll probably have water in your gas

When my car had been sitting around for 6 months, I put some alcohol-based water remover in the tank (half a bottle for half a tank, then filled up with fresh gas and added the rest of the bottle. It seemed to work,

[NickB79]

58. Buy fuel stabilizer

If you plan on storing fuel for any significant length of time, you need to add stabilizers. Even Walmart stocks it, so it shouldn't be hard to find.

[Drum]

9. $4.18/gal. here in Brooklyn.

x(

[Muttocracy]

27. $4.23 and $4.25 yesterday in the Finger Lakes

Might be cheaper on the other side of town, but then I'd have to DRIVE there...

[nancyr]

10. Gas rationing?

I have friends who seem to think that rationing might be a good thing. I'd like to know how others feel about this one. Everytime I see a huge motor home, hauling a flatbed which holds several dune buggies and off the road vehicles, filling up at the gas stations, not to mention all the gas they put in their cans, I do wonder how they are able to justify their over-consumption. It seem that they are using way more than their share of a valuable resource. Does the fact that they are able to afford it make it any more logical?
One friend who is a typical wealthy Bush right-winger has a motor home, and his remark is that if a person has to worry about what gas costs, he has no business owning a motor home. In other words, it's his money and he'll throw it away however he chooses.
As long as this sort of person has this attitude, I don't see any empathy on their parts towards those who simply cannot afford to even drive to and from work anymore. There is a certain smugness here that appalls me. Am I alone?

[burf]

11. The one that gets me

are the folks who drive the motor homes to a NASCAR race to watch cars drive around in circles for three hours. Somehow I don't see the logic in that. But that's just me.

[Muttocracy]

28. I bet NASCAR fans are plenty vocal about the price of gas too.

It's not just you. I think NASCAR is a disgusting piece of conspicuous gas consumption.

[Herman74]

103. NASCAR really is terrible. I don't find too many things obscene...

...but NASCAR is one of them. Conspicuous, selfish fuel consumption, no concern shown toward conservation, watching drivers go round in circles, polluting the air as they go.

[CRF450]

107. Please... the fuel used in motor sports is a drop in the bucket

Compared to what regular drivers use as a whole. We wouldn't have such advancments in automotive technology if wasent for auto racing, so can it.

[Herman74]

109. Drops in the bucket eventually fill it up...

Companies dumping toxins into our waters undoubtedly give the same stupid "drop in the bucket" argument that you're fond of. But when the fish start wasting away...

Speaking of poisons that damage health, for HALF A CENTURY your beloved NASCAR USED LEADED GASOLINE, DIDN'T IT???? NASCAR didn't stop until last year (and I'm not even sure such usage has completely stopped).

Be informed. Here is an example from the United Nations Environmental Programme of what leaded gasoline can do to children:

"Lead in gasoline also contributes to increased atmospheric lead, especially in urban areas
and has been linked at very low levels with extremely serious adverse health effects,
especially in children. For example, a recent study concluded that nearly 70% of the
children in Beijing suffer from lead poisoning because of polluted air and other causes. The
Beijing Children's Hospital has started lead poisoning tests for children and will soon
establish a special lead poisoning treatment center. Lead can affect children's nervous and
digestive systems, and even small amounts can stunt a child's intelligence. At higher levels,
lead causes anemia in children. Some studies suggest lower levels may cause aggressive
behavior." http://www.unep.org/pcfv/PDF/PubMWalshBrochure.pdf

Still going to defend the morally indefensible???

"We wouldn't have such advancments in automotive technology if wasent for auto racing, so can it." -- CRF450

Given that buses, subway trains, scooters, motorcycles, roller skates, and especially bicycles are all more fuel efficient per rider-mile, I don't really give a damn about these uncited, uncorroborated "advancements," which may not even have arisen directly from NASCAR itself. Can that, if you can.

[The2ndWheel]

12. "It seem that they are using way more than their share of a valuable resource"

Increasing scales of civilization wouldn't exist if our species didn't.

As long as more people are able to afford gas, it makes our environmental situation worse. As long as we increase our ability to grow any economic system, which increases our activity, it makes our environmental situation worse. Who is going to get elected by promising more people less?

Most of us exist because of cheap energy, on many levels. Some people will have empathy, others won't. Some people will be smug, others won't. Diversity is fickle.

Gas rationing will just prolong the problem. Then again, there really is no answer. There will be consequences no matter what we would do. Plus there are fewer and fewer answers as more and more people come to live inside the same structure and framework for life.

[JerseygirlCT]

78. Anyone else remember odd and even days?

And long, long lines at gas stations?

[kestrel91316]

95. I remember when it was happening, but I didn't own a car yet,

was in college and lived next to campus and WALKED EVERYWHERE.

There's a lesson in there somewhere......

[JerseygirlCT]

101. I was in HS - not yet driving myself. But I remember

friends who had to mark the mileage before they borrowed the car and after so that they paid for exactly their share. And I remember being very aware of which day you were.

[kestrel91316]

94. Rationing is fine with me. I could bike/bus to work and sell most my

ration coupons on the black market and make some serious money off some fool in an Escalade with more money than brains.........

[pattmarty]

14. Ya know (not to sound stupid like most all of US campaigns),

but if Obama ONLY talked about the gas prices in the general election, he still would probably win by a blow-out. This if the fucking issue above all else that will lose the election for the Republicans. It is highly overly simplistic (like all our elections), but mark my words; if the gas prices stay at 4 bucks a gallon or climb, this will be THE ISSUE that finally will bring down the Republicans, all the other issues (and you know them all) will be in the background.

[junior college]

15. I'd like to see it go to $6.00 per gallon

Then maybe more people would start to find alternative methods of transportation. Also, companies might be forced to develop alternative fuel sources instead of just pretending too. Of course I take an electric train to work everyday so $6.00 a gallon gas wouldn't bother me except that it would probably trigger massive inflation.

[pattmarty]

16. Well, I think you and everybody else on this board knows.........

...............is in 1972 after the first "scare" about gas we should have started something akin to the Manhattan project or project Apollo to find alternative fuels and/or alternative modes of transport. We may have actually had some in use by now. But you know the old saying, "only in America".

[penndragon69]

17. Great Idea..

To bad that in my area there is no such thing as mass transit.
Since i have to drive 8 miles to even get near the city bus services, i will go ahead
and drive the other 3 miles to work.

I wish things were different, but since i cannot sell my house in this depressed market
and would be forced to pay higher taxes if i moved back into town, i'm stuck.

Sure, i'd buy a Hybrid car if i had good credit, cash savings and a job that did not threaten
to leave the country every 2 years, i would buy one!
But having been going through treatment for cancer the past 4 months, my savings are all but wiped out ( even with my good insurence paying most of the
$ 50,000.00 + cost of treatments!)

Lucky for me i'm in remission now!

[Skittles]

41. happy for your remission, penndragon69!

:thumbsup:

[NutmegYankee]

22. Ignorance.

And those of us living out in the country side? What electric train do we take? I live 15 minutes from work, but to get to a grocery store can involve several miles of driving.

And then there is heat...

[junior college]

48. Try one of these

[Gemini Cat]

69. Not everyone can ride one. Get real.

[NutmegYankee]

81. You made my point.

How does one get groceries back home on that?

[Gemini Cat]

88. They don't.

If someone is young enough and healthy enough it might be possible with several trips. However, some people aren't that young or healthy. What about them? (Notice that problem is never addressed.)

[junior college]

89. The above model comes with a basket accessory. :-) n/t

[Gemini Cat]

91. BFD

Does it come with legs if mine are useless? Does it come with youth if I am old? Does it come with dexterity if I, well, can't ride it? How about health if I am ill?

Your idea is okay if I'm a 20-something in good health, but for a lot of people, well, get it now?

By the way since I am in good health, I do walk and/or ride my bike everywhere. That's because I can. However, I can see where these modes of transportation may be impossible for a lot of people.

[kestrel91316]

98. Noone has suggested that the disabled get up and walk. Or whatever.

Those of us who are ABLE to make a change need to get off our spoiled, lazy asses and make a change, SO THAT THERE IS ENOUGH GAS FOR THE DISABLED WHO HAVE NO CHOICE.

I have a choice. You have a choice. Use it wisely and with concern for someone other than yourself (as you are doing) rather than using gas merely because you can afford it. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

[kestrel91316]

97. Stop every day on the way home from work and buy enough to fit in the

backpack.

Grocery trips need not involve the acquisition of half a ton of provisions, most of which are excessively packaged convenience foods......

I stroll to the grocery almost nightly myself. I never do big buys anymore, because that would necessitate driving to the store, which is a waste of gas IMHO. I buy only what will fit into my two cloth bags.

[kestrel91316]

96. Grow your own fruits and vegetables, get a couple of chickens and a dairy

goat, and only go to the grocery store once a month for staples like flour and sugar and oil.

This is how my dad's family got through the Great Depression in the middle of nowhere in NV. If you have a piece of land, you have the key to success in this battle.

Think outside the box. Your glass is DEFINITELY half full.

[Muttocracy]

30. The problem is the rate of change is so fast.

That $6 gas is already behind costs of food going up.

The problem with changes like this is they're happening faster than people can adjust to them. In my area, many people live >15 miles from work because the housing is affordable there and not in town. They can't suddenly buy houses closer to work. Ditto on people buying cars - people who bought new extreme SUVs are getting what they deserve, but people driving older reasonable efficiency cars maybe can't run out and buy hybrids. And public transportation does not exist in most of the country. AAA and other lobbies have fought against it, and we as a nation haven't invested in it. Small groups of rural people can't establish public transit on their own.

[EstimatedProphet]

55. I bet you'd like to see gas go that high because you have Exxon stock.

I don't buy that alternative transportation argument, not when there's not any alternative transportation available or even considered for most of this country.

[Endangered Specie]

73. Gee...aren't you the considerate type...

That $6 a gallon will cause your food prices to soar, every think about that?

[krabigirl]

105. Lovely...hope you'll enjoy the food price hikes and our economy dead for good.

[scarface2004]

18. time to buy a motorcycle...

i just did...50mpg

[ckramer]

19. But is it easy to learn to drive one?

for someone who has never done that before...

[nebby]

21. scooter vs motorcycle

If you're really looking to save gas: check out the Buddy from Genuine Scooter: http://www.genuinescooters.com/

There has been nothing but rave reviews for these bikes, and you can expect to get about 95 miles per gallon. The Buddy came out about 6 months after I had just purchased a Vespa, and if I had known, would have waited; I 'only' get 65-70 mpg.

If you are new to biking, scooters may be much easier to use, mainly in that they're much lighter (easier to control) and most are automatic transmissions: just twist and go.

I'm working on an scooter buying guide article now, but the highlight is:

-Get a least a 125cc. As gas gets to $5, then $6, you'll want to ditch the car completely. You'll want the larger motor to be able to keep up with traffic and carry a passenger. 150cc sized bikes are fast enough to get on the freeway (I hit 70 on my Vespa easily).

[w8liftinglady]

25. now I want a scooter...seriously

[rustydad]

29. Drive safely

I have a gas powered bicycle, Golden Eagle. I have used it for 4 years and gone over 20,000 miles on it. It gets about 250 MPG. Last year I was going through an unregulated and little used intersection when a truck came out of nowhere and hit me on my left side. Knocked me out cold, broke three ribs, lots of cuts and abrasions, and $10,000 for the emergency room for 6 hours. A week ago my good friend whom I had encouraged to buy a motor scooter had a car turn in front of him. He hit the fender at about 25 MPH and went over the hood into the curb. Broke a rib, his arm, his hand, and crushed his pelvis. He is recovering but it will take a long, long time. We are both 65. So if you go with a scooter, go safe. And wear a GOOD helmet, ours saved both our lives. Bob

[Muttocracy]

32. That's the problem - you're still competing on the roads with the big jerks

I was in a very minor fender bender last year. While filling out the paperwork, my insurance adjuster told me he had sold his motorcycle the previous year after working on a case where a motorcyclist hit a deer. (Deer are EVERYWHERE in upstate NY) He said the guy was going under the speed limit, helmet, everything safe, but the deer jumped out in front of him and that was it. His wife came home that night to find his motorcycle on the front lawn with a "for sale" sign.

I guess on a scooter you're probably not going 55mph, which is another reason you're alive. If we were all on small vehicle most of the time or had more separate routes for small vehicles, it would be safer.

[nebby]

36. safety tips

I've found the best defense for an accident is to stay on the offensive. When riding in city traffic, I make sure to stay very visible, ie riding in the side-mirror view of cars that may turn into my lane. I never ride in the right lane, which is where you are more likely to get hit by a vehicle pulling out on the road. Of course reflective, bright clothing helps. And invest in at least a good jacket with body armor--they'll save the day. I always assume there's a car pulling out from an intersection (that won't see me) and will quickly glance at both sides before riding through; sometimes I'll flash my brights before going through intersections. And my favorite safety tip: lightly tap the handbrakes to flash the brake light on & off every so often in heavy traffic, especially well before you have to start braking--this will give extra warning to people from behind who may not be paying attention if you have to stop quickly.

The thing I love about biking is how much visibility you have, and scootering in particular has very good handling/control. I can stop on a dime, or take off like a dart to zip through traffic or dodge cars and potholes.

But I decided not to worry about an accident (been safe here in Seattle for 3 years now)--it's just part of the risk of being a modern human.

[ckramer]

20. America's world class economy has always been operating on the pre-condition

of cheap cost of transportation.

This time, the cost of fuel probably will kill the US, therefore the worldwide, economy as we know it.

This really is a historical event.

[TomInTib]

23. I saw $4.39 (regular unleaded) in Napa yesterday. nt

[LibDemAlways]

110. Unleaded in Ventura County today $4.45. n/t

[matt007]

24. Well its time things changed anyway

You dont need a truck based S.U.V. you dont need a full sized truck, and you definately dont need a V8 or even a high displacement V6.

Look to Europe and the rest of the world......then you'll see how things will be.

[Herman74]

33. Ah, Great to be a Bicycle Commuter These Days...

...knowing that my mode of travel not only saves me money, but more importantly, does not contribute to global warming, does not belch filth into the air for others to inhale, and does not use up unrenewable resources.

[Herman74]

34. Crying about Gas Prices (boo hoo)??? YOU DON'T HAVE MY SYMPATHY

It's not enough to merely support the green way of life, YOU GOT TO LIVE IT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYajXN4pPHI

Get that? Got that? Good.

[EstimatedProphet]

44. Not another one of you clowns

OK, Mr. Smug, has it not occurred to you that not everyone can bicycle to work? Are you not aware that people live outside New York or LA? What's your answer for people that live in small towns, or have to commute more than 2 or 3 miles? don't give me the crap about how everyone should just move closer to their job - what if you can't?

[The2ndWheel]

49. If you can't, then you'll have to accept that your choices will be made for you

There is a give and take to life. Everyone isn't going to get everything.

[EstimatedProphet]

51. Well then, in all fairness, we need to plan how to make those choices work

It's very heavy-handed and uncaring to tell everyone they should just shut up and ride a bike. People need food. People need someone to grow the food. People need people to live outside urban areas to perform the job of growing food, and other jobs too. I work at a plant that destroys chemical weapons. Does anyone really want that to be done IN A CITY? There's a lot of necessary industry conducted outside urban areas, and it's usually done for a reason. Taking the attitude that people who don't live within bike commute distance are just being lazy is intellectually lazy.

[The2ndWheel]

52. They're not lazy, we're all just part of the machine

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/06/ethicalliving.food

"For us to wait for legislation or technology to solve the problem of how we're living our lives suggests we're not really serious about changing - something our politicians cannot fail to notice. They will not move until we do. Indeed, to look to leaders and experts, to laws and money and grand schemes, to save us from our predicament represents precisely the sort of thinking - passive, delegated, dependent for solutions on specialists - that helped get us into this mess in the first place. It's hard to believe that the same sort of thinking could now get us out of it.

Thirty years ago, Wendell Berry, the farmer and writer, put forward a blunt analysis of precisely this mentality. He argued that the environmental crisis of the 70s - an era innocent of climate change; what we would give to have back that environmental crisis! - was at its heart a crisis of character and would have to be addressed first at that level: at home, as it were. He was impatient with people who wrote cheques to environmental organisations while thoughtlessly squandering fossil fuel in their everyday lives - the 70s equivalent of people buying carbon offsets to atone for their SUVs. Nothing was likely to change until we healed the "split between what we think and what we do". For Berry, the "Why bother?" question came down to a moral imperative: "Once our personal connection to what is wrong becomes clear, then we have to choose: we can go on as before, recognising our dishonesty and living with it the best we can, or we can begin the effort to change the way we think and live."

For Berry, the deep problem standing behind all the other problems of industrial civilisation is "specialisation", which he regards as the "disease of the modern character". Our society assigns us a tiny number of roles: we're producers (of one thing) at work, consumers of a great many other things the rest of the time, and then once a year or so we vote as citizens. Virtually all of our needs and desires we delegate to specialists of one kind or another - our meals to agribusiness, health to the doctor, education to the teacher, entertainment to the media, care for the environment to the environmentalist, political action to the politician."

[EstimatedProphet]

53. And the machine needs to be changed, I agree

But the smug post from the OP is what I am getting at. It isn't helpful in this economic climate to taunt people who are sufferring from policies they can't control, and also hold oneself up as a solution to the problem for everyone, as if the solution to the problems are easy enough if people would just do it. That's really what the OP says. His attitude is "So what if you're suffering? I've got mine, and you'd be OK if you were more like me." Not everyone can adopt his lifestyle; that's all there is to it. You can't tell people who don't have a lot of money to just buy a Prius and expect everything to be OK. You also can't tell people who have to live in the country to just get a bicycle and expect that to fix the problem. To do so is arrogant. The real fix to the problems we have comes from renewable energy sources, and switching to those sources is going to be a lot of hard work, maybe too much hard work for some. Nevertheless, we as society almost certainly still need people filling those roles that these people fill, and we can't simply leave them out of the loop, or expect them to just do something else. We need to have a comprehensive plan on how to go about switching over for everyone right now - it's already for later than it should be.

[The2ndWheel]

61. We need options

I'm not sure a comprehensive plan for everyone is going to do anything but make everyone more of a cog than we already are.

That's my problem with globalization. It standardizes everyone and everywhere so that there is no particular person or place left. It makes everyone live within the same comprehensive plan for life.

"and we can't simply leave them out of the loop, or expect them to just do something else"

That might be the central question. The loop, or something else? Can "the loop" leave them out and survive? Can they survive outside "the loop?" Is "something else" possible? What if "something else" is better? Can "the loop" and "something else" co-exist?

Is diversity good? Is diversity too inefficient? Does diversity create too much conflict? Or does everything need to be standardized into a comprehensive plan for everyone everywhere? Is there some perfect state of existence that humanity is headed toward? What is the goal of the comprehensive plan? Once the plan is completed, then what?

[EstimatedProphet]

63. Comprehensive doesn't mean "standardized"

The fix for our economic situation in this country is going to be a lot different for urban areas than it is for rural areas. It has to be or it won't work. It is precisely the standardized idea which I was arguing against all along in this thread.

[The2ndWheel]

90. Then there shouldn't be any loop that people can't be left out of

It sounds like we're reading the same book, just on a different page.

[Endangered Specie]

74. I bet if the price of their Starbucks went up 50%

they would be screaming to high heaven!

[Herman74]

79. Well, Prophet...

I don't live in New York or L.A., so I'm definitely aware that people live outside New York and L.A. Indeed, the town I live in has but 50,000 people (is that small enough for you?), and I commute by bicycle more than "2 or 3 miles" each day. Do you think you could commute 12 miles each way by bike, or it way beyond your ability? (You see, at times maybe I overestimate the capabilities of others, so I'm curious about these things). Did you see the video in my previous post, and if so, what did you think about all those Danish (young, old, etc.) commuting by bike? And if people haven't succeeded in moving close enough to their jobs that they feel they still need an air-polluting, global-warming, people-killing antiquated monstrosity to get around in, maybe, just maybe they're simply not trying hard enough.

[fudge stripe cookays]

82. I have MS, you prick.

How exactly am I going to pedal the 15 miles I have to drive to work?

And don't tell me to get a freaking scooter. It gets to 20 below in Milwaukee and snows. A LOT. How is that practical if I can't drive it half the year?

And no, before you suggest the next thing, there is no public transit to my job. I am renting a house; I was lucky to find a house in this city that would take a 100 pound dog AND has air conditioning (which I need for my MS, so I don't melt in the heat).

There are very few technical writing jobs in this city. I was lucky to get one. And I like it, so I'm not quitting it to get one closer (like there are any).

Your smugness is disgusting. There's another poster on this board you simply HAVE to meet. You can be jerks together.

[kestrel91316]

99. When did anybody say we shouldn't make a few exceptions

for people with less physical ability?

The complaint is with the vast majority who ARE physically capable of walking/biking/scootering more and yet refuse to because they are, well, SPOILED.

It's not all about you.

[Herman74]

102. Exactly. But he/she thinks it is. n/t

[fudge stripe cookays]

106. Read his posts.

There is no mention of exceptions. By him or by our other famous bicycling enthusiast on this board.

According to bike Nazis, we're all the same, and all it takes to make everything better is to go buy a Schwinn.

I was trying to make a point. Not everyone's lives are the same, and I'm sick of insensitive assholes on this board trying to make the rest of us seem like insensitive jerks because we have to drive to a job because we have no other options.

[EstimatedProphet]

83. Actually, you live in the land of arrogance

What about people that don't work in an urban area? Do you honestly think people can take to mass bicycling down state highways? That idea is so absurd you should be embarrassed that you mentioned it. The Danes can commute by bike because they have worked to develop a societal infrastructure where the mass public can do just that. They also have much better public transportation. They have all of this because they put time and effort into society planning, whereas we let Big Oil/Big Auto make all our decisions. If you want to work towards what the Danes have as a system, fine. But if you think that our society hasn't changed overnight to what you want them to be just because they are all lazy assholes, then you're being an intellectually lazy asshole.

By the way, I can't commute to work on a bike because I work on a military base and it is prohibited. Once again, you don't have all the answers in your black and white worldview.

[Richardo]

87. Denmark's about twice the size of Massachussetts...

One-quarter of the population lives in the city of Copenhagen.

..and get this little item from the CIA Factbook on Denmark:

Environment - current issues: air pollution, principally from vehicle and power plant emissions; nitrogen and phosphorus pollution of the North Sea; drinking and surface water becoming polluted from animal wastes and pesticides

So much for your cyclists paradise, eh?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/da.html

[kestrel91316]

100. Oh, I'm SURE they have way more pollution per capita than we do

in our capitalist paradise right here in the US.

Uh huh.

[Herman74]

104. I find this to be, shall we say, somewhat more significant...

Environment -- current issues: air pollution resulting in acid rain in both the US and Canada; the US is the largest single emitter of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels; water pollution from runoff of pesticides and fertilizers; limited natural fresh water resources in much of the western part of the country require careful management; desertification. Source: the CIA again.

The country being described? You guessed it -- the United States. That's got to sting. So much for your motorist paradise, eh?

[Richardo]

45. You're something of a twerp, aren't you?

PS: Keep your sympathy. I didn't ask for it anyway.

[asthmaticeog]

50. You know what helps win people over? Being a hectoring, self-satisfied dick.

[jzodda]

56. Typical Limousine Liberal Mentality

Lets just leave out what its doing to the poor people in rural areas who are already making the lowest wages in the country with little to ZERO public transportation.

They are the ones getting hit hardest but many people don't talk about whats happening to them. Gas for many of these people now costs the same a month as it costs to eat or for rent. Its causing hardship in already impoverished areas. Its nice to talk about what should happen to help them, but the facts on the ground are what they are. They are not getting helped, but punished more and more for the crime of being poor.

[EstimatedProphet]

60. Isn't it though? And they wonder why the red states see liberals as elitist!

[Herman74]

80. LOL!!!! Yeah, my "limousine" just so happens to be a...

...used Challenge Hurricane bicycle. But hey, I don't pay any money at all for gasoline. How about that?

You allude to commendable compassion for the poor. I share your compassion. Ever think, though, that the poor were able to get by before gasoline was invented? Does that catch you by surprise?

And don't you think that at least some of the poor, worrying about the "costs to eat" and "rent," can find more appropriate means of transportation (i.e., the two-wheel kind), so all that money spent on gasoline you mention can be spent on something else?

[EstimatedProphet]

85. And you forget one thing:

Back in the day when people rode horses and walked everywhere, the population of the country was only 10% of what it is today, at most. Do you really think that the food to supply cities can be grown and transported by bicycle?

[The Straight Story]

62. The green way of life has become a religious cult for some (nt)

[Herman74]

76. Aw, not really a religious cult, let's just say a longing,...

...a longing not to settle for second best, to put one's love (for the environment) to the test.

[EstimatedProphet]

84. In your case it's an excuse to preen.

[Baby Snooks]

35. And going up...

Expectation is the traders will push the price somewhere between $140 and $150 a barrel this coming week. What do they care? They're making a fortune. Some of them no doubt worked for Enron.

Part of the problem is supply and demand. But at this point, part of the problem obviously is greed.

And there the Empress sits. Listening to the Emperor as he fiddles while Rome burns.

Three guesses what will become the major issue in the presidential campaign. The Democratic Congress. And its Empress.

[kryckis]

42. Pretty soon you'll be paying what we are paying

in Europe. Imagine that.

(In Sweden it's currently around $9 per gallon. And some politicians have proposed that they keep taxing until we're at $15. I'm almost glad I don't own a car.)

[EstimatedProphet]

43. Perhaps but Europe taxes it that high for a reason

I couldn't care less if gas prices are as high as that, provided we do what Europe does with the revenues - namely, provide cheap and effective mass transportation. What I think a lot of people that talk about how Europe pays high prices don't realize is that we have a laughable public transportation system in this country, precisely because Big Oil/Big Auto went out of their way to make it laughable, and ouur government was either in on it or so short-sighted that they couldn't see the consequences.

Gasoline is a limited resource. I don't mind paying more for it based on that fact. I do mind paying more for it simply because the CEO of Exxon wants another yacht.

[CountAllVotes]

65. In Europe there is HEALTH CARE for all

We do not have that here like this poster in Sweden does. If we did, I wouldn't mind paying more either. I wonder if this person would like to pay $12,000.00 a year for the FREE health care being received? I would gladly pay $9.00 a gallon for gasoline!

You never see an answer this simple question.

[kryckis]

71. Nothing to do with it

I'm glad I have "free" health care but I need to be able to leave my home too without spending my entire paycheck. If they insist on raising the price of gas when we are already paying close to $10 a gallon the least they could do is provide adequate alternative transportation. As a university student I can hardly afford to take the bus regularly. And I sneak by on kids fare.

In your ears maybe I sound ungrateful but please remember that I don't only pay high tax on gas, I pay high taxes period. I can complain all I want if I'm not happy with where it goes.

[CountAllVotes]

72. you have failed to answer my question

would you rather pay $9.00 a gallon for gasoline or $12,000.00 for crappy health care?

[kryckis]

66. I recognize the difference

and you have my sympathies. I think your government should tax gas and invest in public transportation. I'm all for it. However, just because we have high taxes here doesn't mean we have great public transportation. Perhaps in large metropolitan cities but everyone can't live there. I live in a semi-rural city, and some places you just can't get to in any other way than by car. Just like high gas prices in the US, high prices in Europe hurt the rural people who have no choice. Difference is we pay about 3 times what you pay.


I'm not really against high gas prices as long as I can get to where I'm going by other means, and at a reasonable price.

[Rambis]

46. "1.64 is unacceptable for a gallon of gas" GWB 1999

Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of “the administration that’s been in charge” while the “price of gasoline has gone steadily upward.” In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton “must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices.”

[EstimatedProphet]

47. Yeah - unacceptably low, FOR HIS BANK ACCOUNT

[goclark]

57. My car only takes Premium and in CA it's $4.67

:puke:

Some cars still accept regular even though they recommend Premium.
Not mine ~ it spits out Regular gas--- they have figured out a way to do it.

[TheProphet5]

59. ouch!

[NickB79]

64. It's only going to get worse

The current superspike may indeed be due partially to speculation, but speculation could only shoot up if the underlying fundamentals of high demand/declining production were in effect. As nations continue to attempt to mimic the US, oil demand will keep going up. At the same time, there isn't a nation on earth right now that appears capable of raising production. Russia, Mexico, Kuwait, Indonesia, Nigeria, the North Sea fields, the US North Slope fields, all are producing less oil than they were a year ago. Even Saudi Arabia may have peaked in production, which means serious trouble very soon.

Even if the oil "bubble" does eventually pop, we likely won't see prices below $90/barrel again. And, afterwards, oil will just start to march upwards again as demand continues to build and global reserves dwindle.

Adapt now, and it will hurt less in the future. Do whatever you can to insulate yourselves while you can still afford to do something, anything. Even learning something simple like how to cook at home or sew a rip in a shirt yourself can be immensely valuable over time. Start a small vegetable garden, pay off your debts as fast as possible, whatever you can do NOW to make things easier in the future.

Next summer we'll be lucky if we "only" see $6/gal. The only way next summer's gas prices will be lower than $4/gal is if we've entered a serious recession, and that "cure" is worse than the disease.

[Doctor_J]

67. SE MI just went over $4 this weekend.

On the upside, I am having to dodge fewer 3 ton SUVs while putting around town.

[Xenocrates]

68. I paid $4.79 for diesel yesterday

And diesel continues to outpace the risng retail price for gasoline. I like to tell myself that its okay because I drive a high mileage VW TDI, but its getting harder. I drive 80 miles a day to and from work, and even 42 mpg isn't enough. Move closer to work? Housing slump people. Who's gonna buy my house so I can buy another one? There's a credit problem going around. The market is a buyers market, houses for sale all over the place, but no one is buying. We have mass transit, but I have to drive to get to it.

Go out and buy a scooter? Most people I know are already living from paycheck to paycheck. There are no disposable funds to left to buy another vehicle, let alone the ones that still have payments.

[sweet baby jesus]

86. you still have an advantage with your TDI

I drive a 2002 Golf TDI Turbo Manual and I get 45 combo miles per Diesel Gallon... whereas my Regular Gasoline counterpart gets 27 combo miles - here's the plus:


45 = 10.6 cents a mile or $8.48 per 80 mile day

27 = 14.9 cents a mile or $11.92 per 80 mile day

37% advantage over regular or $3.44 per 80 mile day

$3.44 - that's the price of a Starbucks Latte!

[tpsbmam]

70. $3.93 at Citgo this morning when I headed out to do errands.......

Couldn't pull in there fast enough figuring most had already gone up. So glad I did! One BP was $4.05 and the other still hadn't raised prices -- $3.96. Another station was at $3.97. By the time I headed home 2 hours later, all but Citgo had raised their prices to around $4.07/gallon. Figured that might happen!

[Imagevision]

75. Yet, McBush wants to give EXXON/MOBILE a additional 1.2 Billion tax break

[JerseygirlCT]

77. Eh, we've been there for weeks and weeks now.

And they're talking 5 before the summer ends. I saw tonight that CT has the dubious distinction of having the most expensive gas in the country along with Alaska.

It will force people to be much more thoughtful about gas usage. But it's going to really, really hurt a great many people. It's frustrating because we didn't need to wait until people were getting hurt so badly...

[shaft]

108. $4. 25.gallon in OR

no end in sight, America is caught between a rock and a hard place on this.