EPA official says agency might not regulate (jet fuel) chemical in water

[Robbien]

Source: Los Angeles Times

A top Environmental Protection Agency official told a Senate committee Tuesday that there “is a distinct possibility” that the agency will not limit the amount of perchlorate, a toxic ingredient of solid rocket fuel, that is allowable in drinking water.

State officials and water suppliers across the U.S. have been waiting for the EPA to set a standard for several years because perchlorate has contaminated the water supplies of at least 11 million people. Last year, California, impatient with the indecision, set its own standard.

Benjamin Grumbles, the EPA’s assistant administrator for water, said the EPA will decide by the end of the year whether to regulate perchlorate. Scientific studies have shown that the chemical blocks iodide and suppresses thyroid hormones, which are necessary for the normal brain development of a fetus or an infant.

Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nationworld/story/354069.html

---

So the Pentagon, NASA and defense contractors are left to negotiate how much they will contribute to the cleanup. Their contribution so far is almost nil. State and local governments are right now footing the entire bill.

[Muttocracy]

1. I'm listening to the audio archive of the hearing right now:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.Hearing&Hearing_ID=9cb06bed-802a-23ad-487e-3ddfb149582d

[truedelphi]

24. Thanks for the links to hearing on jet fuel in H20 n/t

[Muttocracy]

2. also, perchlorate has other sources - no fireworks this year, please, especially over water.

can be breakdown product of other chlorinated chemicals, can be naturally occurring, but...

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/publications/factsheets/perchlorate.htm
Sources of Perchlorate and How are People Exposed

Perchlorate is a chemical most commonly used in rocket fuel. The chemical is also used in explosives and fireworks. A combination of human activity and natural sources has led to the widespread presence of perchlorate in the environment.

People are exposed to perchlorate by drinking water or eating food containing perchlorate or by working in the manufacture of products containing perchlorate.

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/unregulated/perchlorate.html

[Hugin]

3. I don't deny the contamination is present...

However, I think people need to look no farther than their back yard swimming pool to find the source.

"In some places, perchlorate is detected because of contamination from industrial sites that use or manufacture it. In other places, there is no clear source of perchlorate. In those areas it may be naturally occurring, or could be present because of the use of Chilean fertilizers, which were imported to the U.S. by the hundreds of tons in the early 19th century. One recent area of research has even suggested that perchlorate can be created when lightning strikes a body of water, and perchlorates are created as a byproduct of chlorine generators used in swimming pool chlorination systems."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchlorate

[Muttocracy]

4. too bad there's no reference for that part. nt

[Hugin]

5. For that matter it's present in the ubiquitous PVC piping...

Poly Vinyl Chloride.

[Muttocracy]

6. what's the evidence of perchlorate from PVC? Having a Cl atom doesn't mean perchlorate. nt

[Hugin]

8. "PVC is environmentally evil from production to disposal"

I know that this page is primarily about 'reproductive health', but, there's goodies about the baddies surrounding
us which should be of concern to everybody in it.

http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/09/18/chemicals/

[Muttocracy]

9. My point is not all chloride compounds are the same

chlorine, chloride in table salt, perchlorate, PVC, PCBs, PFCs, etc. are very different compounds that all contain Cl. The OP is about perchlorate.

[Hugin]

12. My replies refer to the fact that... Guess what! perclorates are water soluble.

So, they are created from chlorine (an element and not a compound, btw) and enter the environment through all of the
vectors you mention... Plus, many more.

My concern is that instead focusing on a select source of the pollutants, we need to have a look see into where the bulk
of them are coming from... And considering a relatively small percentage of the US's landmass has been devoted to
rocketry, I'm betting it isn't the primary source. More likely, something everyone has.

[Muttocracy]

13. Chlorine occurs as a diatomic element (Cl2) not just an atom

And yes, I know it's an element. I've taught chemistry. And my posts addressed other sources of perchlorate, and it is a naturally occuring ion too. But hey, better to speculate that all chlorine compounds are equally scary and transform into one another than look at actual chemistry. Hope you don't eat any salt today. Or swim in the ocean - it's got lots of chlorine!

[Hugin]

14. All of that, but, you missed the fact that the reason the chlorine is in the...

Rocket Fuel in the first place is because PVC is used as the binder.

[Muttocracy]

15. that's what I was asking about in my post way up there - but pipes carrying water

is not the same as high-temperature reactions - is there evidence of perchlorate forming in typical water pipes? That's what I was asking about above.

[Hugin]

17. Very interesting reading...

"the manufacture of PVC is linked to the production of chlorine to a degree unmatched by any other material."

From: http://pvcinformation.org/assets/pdf/PVCFactPack.pdf

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm only asserting maybe some introspection into all of our daily uses of the
chemicals responsible for the pollution is necessary instead of focusing on the low hanging fruit of a specialized
niche of applications.

[eppur_se_muova]

18. Umm ... no. Even if PVC is used, that's not where the ClO4- comes from.

Perchlorate is a powerful oxidizer, and solid rocket "fuels" actually consist of a fuel PLUS an oxidizer. Combinations of organic polymers, perchlorate, and other ingredients go into making most solid rockets, and salts like aluminum perchlorate have almost no other use.

Note that the wiki article suggests ClO4- is a byproduct of home pool chlorine generators. This is at least semi-plausible, since electrolysis of conc'd NaCl is used to generate Cl2, and under somewhat different conditions, which might occasionally be achieved accidentally, to make perchlorate, ClO4-.

The formation of ClO4- from PVC is fairly implausible, in contrast.

[Hugin]

21. You might want to check the precursor chemicals for PVC...

PVC was invented as a 'sink' for all of the chlorine produced as a byproduct of other industrial processes.

So, in other words. PVC is a toxic dump.

We're living in the midst of a toxic dump.

Details here: http://www.pvcinformation.org/assets/pdf/Thornton_Enviro_Impacts_of_PVC.pdf and there's many many more.

[eppur_se_muova]

22. Thanks, I know what vinyl chloride is made from.

But I see you'd rather be shrill, so I won't bother you with any more pesky logic.

[Hugin]

23. You replied to my post.

;)

[struggle4progress]

25. Bullshit, Prag.

[Muttocracy]

16. fireworks are pretty widespread, and so are DoD sites

http://www.epa.gov/swerffrr/pdf/known_perchlorate_releases_in_the_us_09_23_2004.pdf

[Muttocracy]

11. and that source discusses PVC as source of phthalates, not perchlorate. nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. hmmm...says here that cows milk

snip:
Alfalfa accumulates perchlorate, making it and other dietary components sources of exposure to livestock (7). Recently, perchlorate has been detected in commercial fluid milk, with concentrations ranging from 0 to 11 ppb in all regions of the country surveyed.

source: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1275600

long article of studies relating to cows milk and perchlorate.

Seems I remember reading something about increase in folks having thryoid like symptoms, low levels...this could explain it.

[Muttocracy]

10. that's one thing they discussed - drinking water vs. other dietary sources

Not sure if it's ending up in foods from contaminated water, soil, or natural sources, or what.

[eppur_se_muova]

19. NOT jet fuel. ONLY solid rocket motors (including fireworks).

Solid rockets contain a fuel and oxidant (such as a perchlorate salt) combined in solid form. Jets use air as the oxidant.

[starroute]

20. Is the 'Council on Water Quality' astroturf group involved?

I've been looking into some of these anti-environmental astroturf groups lately -- so when this latest story about perchlorate and the EPA came through, I naturally wondered if these guys were behind it.


http://www.councilonwaterquality.org/about/index.html

The Council on Water Quality is supported by a subset of the member companies of the Perchlorate Study Group, including Lockheed Martin, Aerojet, Tronox and American Pacific Corporation. In the past decade, the Perchlorate Study Group has worked cooperatively with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to increase scientific and medical understanding of perchlorate’s risk to human health.


http://www.environmentcalifornia.org/reports/clean-water/clean-water-program-reports/the-politics-of-rocket-fuel-pollution

The Politics of Rocket Fuel Pollution

2006-12-1

For decades, tobacco companies have ignored evidence and distorted science in order to mislead the public and decision-makers, despite clear evidence that tobacco smoking is hazardous to public health. Now companies facing government action over rocket fuel pollution are deploying similar tactics. . . .

In 1992 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) took the first steps toward requiring cleanup of perchlorate from drinking water. In response, a group of manufacturers and users of rocket fuel joined to form the Perchlorate Study Group (PSG), with the stated intention of helping EPA by providing scientific information.

However, documents from the internal files of participants in the PSG reveal that, much like the tobacco industry, these companies paid millions of dollars to fund misleading research and millions more to influence the scientific and public debate. . . .

The PSG supports an organization called the Council on Water Quality, including a prominent spokesperson (former California EPA director James Strock). The Council has consistently and publicly downplayed concerns about rocket fuel exposure. Deeper investigation reveals that:

* The Council on Water Quality is actually a project of the public relations firm APCO Worldwide;

* In 2004, the PSG paid APCO $770,000 to run this effort; and

* On behalf of Philip Morris, APCO has used similar front groups to challenge the use of science in policy-making and make it harder for citizens to sue corporations.


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=APCO_Worldwide

According to its website in 2004, APCO Associates (Worldwide) is a "global communication consultancy" specilalizing in "influencing decisionmakers and shaping public opinion by crafting compelling messages and recruiting effective allies."

Philip Morris hired APCO to organize the front group TASSC (The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition) in October, 1993 to help fight public health efforts to control Environmental Tobacco Smoke that occurred in the wake of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's ruling that secondhand tobacco smoke was a Group A human carcinogen. APCO recommended that Philip Morris form a European TASSC group to: "Preempt unilateral action against the industry." . . .

APCO specializes in helping corporations advance their goals by manipulating legislators, and drafting and advancing model legislation and regulations. Key tools A&P uses include the creation of business coalitions and fake, corporate-funded "grassroots" groups tailored to specific issues.



(APCO has also worked for some of the world's nastiest dictators and registered last fall to promote a more favorable public image for Kazakhstan. See http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/0081591 for a whole lot more on APCO and its unsavory clients.)