Penny prices pinched by rising cost of metal

[krispos42]

Source: CNN.com

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Further evidence that times are tough: It now costs more than a penny to make a penny. And the cost of a nickel is more than 7½ cents.

Surging prices for copper, zinc and nickel have some in Congress trying to bring back the steel-made pennies of World War II and maybe using steel for nickels, as well.

Copper and nickel prices have tripled since 2003 and the price of zinc has quadrupled, said Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Illinois, whose subcommittee oversees the U.S. Mint.

<snip>

A lousy deal, lawmakers have concluded. On Tuesday, the House debated a bill that directs the Treasury secretary to suggest a new, more economical composition of the nickel and the penny. A vote was delayed because of Republican procedural moves and is expected later in the week.




Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/06/coin.inflation.ap/index.html

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And, unbelievebly, the Repubs are throwing a fit about this because the power to mint money is Constitutionally delegated to Congress, not the President! Bush is 'chafing' about that little fact!

:banghead:

More 'unitary executive' crap, I guess.

[glowing]

1. Yes, I think it would make more cents for the treasury to spend less to

make the actual coin.. or shit.. loose the coin all together and make it paper, hemp paper at that.

[shain from kane]

2. Issue paper monopoly money for coins. Imagine a stack of one cent notes in your piggybank.

[BrotherBuzz]

3. What we need is a seven-cent nickel

Well, I'll go further than that. I'll get off at the depot. The nickel today is not what it was fifteen years ago. Do you know what this country needs today?...A seven-cent nickel. Yessiree, we've been using the five-cent nickel in this country since 1492. Now that's pretty near a hundred years' daylight saving. Now, why not give the seven-cent nickel a chance? If that works out, next year we could have an eight-cent nickel. Think what that would mean. You could go to a newsstand, buy a three-cent newspaper and get the same nickel back again. One nickel carefully used would last a family a lifetime! - Captain Spaulding (Groucho Marx), Animal Crackers (1930)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTLVYK3SwWM

[xyouth]

4. At least some of our currency is trying to keep up with inflation!

It's not the gold standard, but at least it is something tangible.:sarcasm: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Thor_MN]

8. Maybe solid copper coins, worth market value???

[kentauros]

12. You mean like gold bullion?

Maybe what we need is a Copper Krugerrand ;)

[happyslug]

14. Cents, have NOT been made of Copper since 1982

1982 was the first year we started to use Zinc base Cents (The proper name for the penny). Last time i check (about a year ago) the copper in a pre-1982 Cents as worth about two cents. As of March 16, 2008 a pre-1982 Copper Cent is worth 2.57 cents (i.e. over half a nickel).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(United_States_coin)

The Nickel is not as bad, it is made of Copper and Nickels, whose value as of March 6, 2008 is 7.2 cents. Thus the Nickel, like the pre-1982 Cent, is worth more than its face value.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_%28United_States_coin%29

Recommendation: Keep any pre-1982 Cents and any Nickel, they are worth more then they face value. At present time it is illegal to melt the metal down, but copper is copper and it does not take much to separate nickel from copper if you have the equipment (Generally a heat source, the metals will separate when they become liquid at different temperatures).

The melting point of Nickel is 1728 K, or 1455 °C or 2651 °F.
http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/15958/nickel.html

Melting point of Copper is 1357.77 K or 1084.62 °C or 1984.32 °F)
http://www.chemeurope.com/lexikon/e/Copper

With a melting point difference of 370.38 degrees C, an easy method of separating the two metals, but it is illegal at the present time. Also remember Cents and Nickels are known to have a set amount of Copper (pre-1982 Cents only) thus it may be better keeping them as Cents and Nickels given that people will know based on their face value, how much copper is in them (i.e. no need to test for purity). I would keep them in the form of Cents and Nickels, but stock pile them.

If you run across a 1943 35% Silver Nickel (I did a few months ago) it is worth $1.06 (Silver has really gone up).

[kentauros]

5. There's really no "good" reason to keep the penny anymore anyway.

What can you buy with a penny, or even four cents? Round everything up or down a nickel and drop the penny.

The only use for pennies that comes to mind is with the US Postal Service, and their vending machines are the only ones that accept pennies, too ;)

Haven't other countries throughout the world done similar things without much complaint?

[Robb]

6. When people start melting down devalued currency for scrap...

...Can we officially call it a "recession"?

[Winterblues]

7. Melt down all your old pennies and triple your money

:shrug:

[Zachstar]

9. Just stop making pennies and nickels

Seriously! They are worthless! The existing supply is fine

[happyslug]

18. See my comment below, do we keep the dime or the Quarter?

If we get rid of the Nickel one or the other has to go. Either the smallest coin we have are in terms of 25 cents or 10 cents. If I owe you a dime, but all I have are quarters, how to you give me my 15 cents change if there is no nickel? My point is you can NOT keep both, one or the other has to go, as further set forth below.

[ckramer]

10. Ban any pricing ended in number 9

then we don't even need penny anymore.

[Pietrogustapov]

11. What are pennies good for anyway?

They should just stop minting pennies. You can't buy anything with one anymore.

[happyslug]

15. Make dogs sick, if they digest one (post-1982 cents only)

1982 and later Cents are made of Zinc NOT copper, see my previous post for more data of that, but dogs have been known to get sick when they digest zinc based cents. Pre-1982 Cents made of Copper had no such problem, but Zinc can act as a poison in Dogs

[roamer65]

13. Australia and NZ have already gotten rid of their 1c and 2c coins.

Australia rounds to the nearest 5c and I believe NZ has also gotten rid of their 5c and rounds to the nearest 10c.

[Penance]

16. Get rid of the penny!

They are worthless. Vending machines and tollbooths don't take them. They are oinly good at making change. Nothing more. A hundred of the things, an entire handful, will get you a can of soda at a bodega. Removing the nickel would be trickier because we'd have to remove quarters as well and go with 20 cent coins as well as bring back a *useful* 50 cent coin. That would be historically painful, and hard on vending machines, but it would be the right way to go. Then again, we haven't been able to bring out a useful $1 coin for over 70 years. Even the disaster of a coin that was the Sacagawea Dollar might have worked if there was legislation to kill the $1 bill.

[happyslug]

17. What do we do with the Quarter if the Nickel is abolished?

How do you make change? if the change is 30 Cents? That may be three dimes, or one quarter and nothing (remember this is assuming the Nickel is gone). Thus if we get rid of the Nickel we have to decide to get rid of the Quarter, do to a lack of an ability to make change, or get rid of the dime, all change would be to the nearest quarter dollar (i.e. 25cents, 50 cents, 75 cents change NOTING in between, for the Nickel and dime will be gone).

Thus we have to make a decision, and congress does NOT like making decision it thinks will be unpopular with people. The best choice would be to get rid of the Quarter, keep the Dime and come put with new versions of the Half Dollar and Dollar Coins (and get rid of the One Dollar Bill). The new half Dollar could be solid Copper about the size of the Nickel, but thiner, and the new Dollar about the Size of the Half Dollar but thiner. The dime will be coin kept for the transition, while all other coins are retired (almost no one used the Half Dollar and Dollar coins today, so retire them and start anew). An alternative would be to keep the present Dollar Coin, but make the Half Dollar half its size in diameter and thickness (To avoid confusion).

The other alternative would be to keep the Quarter, as a transitional piece, and do the same as above, but no dime, the Quarter would be the smallest coin in value. The problem here is the Quarter is to close to the size of the Dollar and any smaller half dollar coin. Doable, but the dime as the smallest coin is nicer as the coin of transition.

A change is needed, but Congress will wait to the last minute to do the change. Right now the Zinc cent is worth .6 cents of Zinc but costs the US Treasury 1.67 US Cents to make (Including the price of the Zinc in the cent). The Nickel is worse, it has 7.3 cents worth of Copper and Nickel, but costs 9.5 cents to make (including the price of the Copper and Nickel in the coin). In simple terms it is costing the Government almost a dime for a coin whose face value is Five Cents and Metal Contents is 7.3 cents.