Kucinich Floats Plan to Resolve Florida, Michigan Delegate Disputes

[Hissyspit]

Source: Congressional Quarterly

CQ TODAY ONLINE NEWS
April 30, 2008 – 7:55 p.m.
Kucinich Floats Plan to Resolve Florida, Michigan Delegate Disputes

By Jonathan Allen, CQ Staff
Former Democratic presidential candidate Dennis J. Kucinich has proposed a plan to seat delegations from Florida and Michigan at the Democratic National Convention based on the results of a fresh round of polling in the two states.

The Democratic Party stripped the states of their delegates as punishment for holding primaries in January in violation of rules designed to preserve the role of early primary states, including Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, in the nominating process. Kucinich’s proposal, a copy of which was obtained by CQ Politics Wednesday, has been circulating among Democratic members of the House for nearly a week.

The plan would base the distribution of delegates on polling conducted by three firms, one selected by each campaign and a third chosen by the other two companies. Delegates would be apportioned based on the composite findings of the three polls. None of the firms could have previously been employed by either campaign.

- snip -

In his letter to colleagues, Kucinich noted that his is a less-than-perfect plan for rectifying a less-than-ideal situation: “Simple, accurate and cost effective, this solution is nevertheless no substitute for actual voting,” he wrote. “But it is better than any other solution proposed thus far.”

Read more: http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002714364

[FlyingSquirrel]

1. Hmmm I dunno Koochie

I'm pretty sure Hillary wouldn't accept it. Plus what about a penalty? I think it'd be better to just penalize them 1/2 of their delegates, no superdelegates for them, and do the compromise in MI of 69 for Hillary, 59 for Obama (but halved, so it'd be 34.5 for Hillary, 29.5 for Obama.)

[Tellurian]

2. Punish the DNC ..they created this mess.. They're almost bankrupt anyway..

They've done such a terrific job of running the Party into the ground...

Will they have enough money for a deposit on the Convention site?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Honeycombe8]

25. The state legislatures caused the problem. And Hillary agreed w/the DNC, remember?

Or can you remember that far back? I know it's kinda hard to keep up with her shifting positions, but it's a fact that she agreed with not seating the delegates for breaking the rules AND TRYING TO HARM THE OTHER STATES WHO WERE SLATED TO GO FIRST.

But, like she did with the Nevada rigamarole, she changed her mind, once she fared the best (being, like, the most well known woman in the world versus virtual unknowns....duh).

[bjobotts]

5. They were warned, knew the penalties and did it anyway. Now it's "nevermind"

Should have changed it before their primary.

[krispos42]

6. Yeah, because polling is soooo accurate, DK...

The only fair solution would have been a re-vote after allowing enough time, say, a month, for the two campaigns to run some sort of campaign in the two states. Preferably two months.

But that's out the shitter. There's no money in the budget for a re-vote, either state or DNC.


So, seat the delegates from Michigan and . But, make their delegates exactly proporitonal to the pledged (non-super) delegates from the other 48 states (and several terratories). If Obama gets 53% of the pledged delegates, he gets 53% of and 53% of Michigan.


Face it, Floridians, your Republican-dominated legislature voided 100% of Democratic delegates and 50% of Republican delegates trying to turn from the Electile Dysfunction State to the First Really Big Primary State. Solution: less Republicans.

[AZ Criminal JD]

9. 53% of Michigan when he was a coward and took his name off. LOL

[JeanGrey]

17. A coward? You know I have heard some really stupid comments

before but that takes the cake. He took it off because he is HONORABLE unlike someone else I could mention. Disgusting.

[AZ Criminal JD]

22. So Dodd, Kuchinich and Gravel were not Honorable in your words?

[stillcool]

18. Liar.

Kucinich Files Affidavit To Remove Name From Michigan's Primary Shortly Before Deadline

October 10, 2007 8:19 a.m. EST
Ayinde O. Chase - AHN Staff
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008781843
Dover, NH (AHN) - The Kucinich for President campaign Tuesday afternoon officially requested that Kucinich's name be withdrawn from the Michigan Democratic primary ballot. The affidavit came by way of to the Michigan Secretary of State's office.The Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidates
National Campaign manager Mike Klein said in the statement, "We signed a public pledge recently, promising to stand with New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and the DNC-approved 'early window', and the action we are taking today protects New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary status, and Nevada's early caucus."
The statement continued: "We support the grassroots nature of the New Hampshire, small-state primary, and we support the diversity efforts that Chairman Dean and the DNC instituted last year, when they added Nevada and South Carolina to the window in January 2008. We are obviously committed to New Hampshire's
historic role." Klein who actually recently moved to Dover said, "We will continue to adhere to the DNC-approved primary schedule."

Governor Granholm and other Michigan Democratic leaders have openly criticized the decision by several presidential candidates to keep their names off the state primary ballot. The Michigan lawmakers are taken back by Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John Edwards and Bill Richardson's decision to withdraw their names from the January 15th ballot.

The only ones who remain on Michigan's primary ballot are Hillary Clinton, Mike Gravel and Chris Todd.

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates
By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.
The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.
The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.
Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the
Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar...

Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

[AZ Criminal JD]

21. Kucinich was on the ballot. Try again.

[stillcool]

23. Did you read the post?

Why his name remained on the ballot is something that you should take up with the Michigan Secretary of State.

Kucinich Files Affidavit To Remove Name From Michigan's Primary Shortly Before Deadline

October 10, 2007 8:19 a.m. EST
Ayinde O. Chase - AHN Staff
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008781843
Dover, NH (AHN) - The Kucinich for President campaign Tuesday afternoon officially requested that Kucinich's name be withdrawn from the Michigan Democratic primary ballot. The affidavit came by way of to the Michigan Secretary of State's office.The Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidates
National Campaign manager Mike Klein said in the statement, "We signed a public pledge recently, promising to stand with New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and the DNC-approved 'early window', and the action we are taking today protects New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary status, and Nevada's early caucus."
The statement continued: "We support the grassroots nature of the New Hampshire, small-state primary, and we support the diversity efforts that Chairman Dean and the DNC instituted last year, when they added Nevada and South Carolina to the window in January 2008. We are obviously committed to New Hampshire's
historic role." Klein who actually recently moved to Dover said, "We will continue to adhere to the DNC-approved primary schedule."

Governor Granholm and other Michigan Democratic leaders have openly criticized the decision by several presidential candidates to keep their names off the state primary ballot. The Michigan lawmakers are taken back by Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John Edwards and Bill Richardson's decision to withdraw their names from the January 15th ballot.

The only ones who remain on Michigan's primary ballot are Hillary Clinton, Mike Gravel and Chris Todd.

[AZ Criminal JD]

26. My name is not Dennis Kucinich. He is the one who should take it up.

Kucinich actively campaigned in Michigan before the primary. Did you know that? BTW you are the one who did not read the post. I was referring to Obama not Kucinich when I said coward. He knew he would lose to Clinton in Michigan.

[stillcool]

27. Pathetic...

I provide you with some information about who withdrew their names, and you come back with a sorry ass slur. So typical. I just love how some "Democrats" have no respect for the "Democratic Party" it's rules, and those "Democrats" who abide by the rules.

[AZ Criminal JD]

28. You didn't give me any information.

I knew who and who didn't remove their names. I think anyone who removed their names were disrespectful of the people of Michigan. I am glad Dodd, Gravel, Kucinich and Clinton did not.

[digidigido]

7. It's the best option I've heard so far. It lives in the solution rather then

the problem. Not perfect, but reasonable

[Zachstar]

8. No Dennis

[McCamy Taylor]

10. Obama does not poll real well in either state so he is going to say no.

And that means his supporters will say that Michigan and Florida are cheaters and racists (until they start supporting Obama) so we can just kiss off their electoral votes. That is how it goes in the world of absolutist politics.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html

RCP Average 03/15 - 04/10 -- 49.7 38.0 McCain +11.7 vs. Obama

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_clinton-417.html

RCP Average 03/15 - 04/10 -- 44.3 44.0 McCain +0.3 vs. Clinton


So I do not think that Obama wants to see what people in Florida think about him right now. In fact, I think he would prefer that the SDs ignore both Florida and Michigan.

[cali]

13. Obama polls better in MI against McCain than Clinton

Clinton loses to McCain there. Obama wins. The links you provided are about FL, not Michigan. Perhaps you should reconsider your comments about how he diesn't do well in Michigan. You posted incorrect information about the status of Obama and Clinton in that state. Why?

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080415/NEWS07/601177871

[stillcool]

19. Delete. Not worth my time.

[HockeyMom]

20. I live in SW Florida

I have yet to see one single Hillary or McCain sticker or sign. Are they ashamed to show their support? However, I have seen PLENTY of Obama stickers, many in the parking lot of the local Catholic Church right up next to all those CHOOSE LIFE PLATES.

My favorite one I saw was a woman (white for what its worth) with 3 kids in an SUV. She had an "Obama Mama" sticker. I gave her a thumbs up as she passed by.

[McCamy Taylor]

11. Rules say 1/2 delegates for Mi, Fl,NH, SC and Iowa since all went early. I like that one.

It is fair. No one gets treated special. Next time everyone knows what the punishment will be. The only trouble it is cuts Obama's lead (including SDs ) to 55. Ouchies. Seems to me that the DNC is playing favorites, maybe because all the people with college educations and suits and money like Obama better.

[cali]

14. Sorry, NH and SC were sanctioned primaries.

It's patently absurd to class them with FL and MI. You don't know the rules better than Dean or the Rules Committee. And no, the DNC is not playing favorites. This all went down before a single vote was cast, so your supposition about it is off base.

[taylor egv420106]

15. Completely untrue

The rules say the punishment will be AT LEAST 1/2 with additional being at their discretion. I love how Clintonites always seem to "forget" that part of the rules.

[hokies4ever]

12. HORRIBLE IDEA. . .

Even through all of the efforts taken to avoid voter fraud, it's still a problem. This idea would have voter fraud running rampant. Just because a polling company hasn't been employed by a campaign, that doesn't mean that it will be impartial. Also, many people suggest that the youth vote might be underrepresented since they are more likely to have cell phones and not LAN lines. Also, how do you know who the likely voters will be? You could just be polling people who weren't going to take the time to go to the polls anyway. Finally, it will encourage robocall negative campaigning as well as push-polling by the candidates, something that Hillary is doing now in North Carolina.

[Uben]

16. If they're going to use polls......

...then they must use polls conducted at the time of the primary. Any other poll would bebiased to one candidate or the other

[Richard Steele]

24. Here's a plan: FOLLOW THE FUCKING RULES.

I'm saddened to see this nonsense coming from Dennis K.

[saigon68]

29. Carl Levin is responsible for the MI part of theis clusterfuck

[knitter4democracy]

30. So's the MI GOP, don't forget.

They introduced the freakin' bills, and they sure as heck have stonewalled since on getting anything passed to rectify it.